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Title: It Begins! Montana Man Being Prosecuted for 'Hate Speech' and Holocaust Denial
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URL Source: http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/05/montana-hate-speech-case
Published: Jun 5, 2015
Author: Elizabeth Nolan Brown
Post Date: 2015-06-05 20:03:05 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 419
Comments: 35
Say what? While this sort of prosecution is common in parts of Europe, Americans enjoy the protection of the First Amendment, which contains no exception for what's colloquially known as "hate speech." The only permitted exceptions to free speech protections—as the Supreme Court recently re-articulated—are for obscenity, defamation, fraud, incitement, and "speech integral to criminal conduct." As Eugene Volokh explains, defamation law is generally "limited to false factual assertions. It requires a showing that the speaker knows the statement is false, and isn’t just mistaken (reasonably or not). And it requires a statement about a particular person." But under Montana's ridiculously broad defamation statute, "defamatory matter is anything that exposes a person or a group, class, or association to hatred, contempt, ridicule, degradation, or disgrace in society or injury to the person’s or its business or occupation." And anyone who "communicates any defamatory matter to a third person without the consent of the person defamed commits the offense of criminal defamation." Here's a sample of the kind of things Lenio has been arrested for tweeting: USA needs a Hitler to rise to power and fix our #economy and i’m about ready to give my life to the cause or just shoot a bunch of #kikes … I hope someone goes on a massive killing spree in kalispell school because I'm so poor I can't afford housing and don't care about your kids. Now that the holocaust has been proven to be a lie beyond a reasonable doubt, it is now time to hunt the Nazi hunters. #Copenhagen It’s important to note that jews hate free speech & are known bullsh-ters, could be #falseFlag Reasonable people may disagree on whether Lenio's assertion that he's going to shoot people constitutes a "true threat." (U.S. courts have recently been grappling with something similar in a case involving Facebook statements, although in that case the potential threats were directed at specific individuals.) But it's clear that if any illegal speech is at play here, it's the suggestion that Lenio might commit violence, right? The Flathead County prosecutor's office, however, is charging Lenio not just for "intimidation" but also, independently, under the state's defamation statute. It argues that Lenio made defamatory statements about Jews by suggesting that they have degraded the economy and dislike free speech and by stating that the Holocaust was a lie. A Montana district court this week rejected Lenio's motion to dismiss the charges on grounds that the statutes were unconstitutionally overbroad. "Lenio does not establish beyond a reasonable doubt that (the defamation law) is facially overbroad because it is not limited to cases against individuals or small groups of people," the judge wrote, and he "does not establish how the statute reaches protected speech in a substantial number of cases." Can we pause a second there? According to this judge, it's unimaginable how a law against voicing any negative opinion about any group of people could infringe on free speech in a substantial way. This is not defamation as it's commonly understood. This is, as Volokh states, "that extraordinarily rare thing: an American prosecution for "hate speech." There's just one tiny problem: "The First Amendment doesn’t allow that." While Volokh doesn't think the Montana defamation law is unconstitutional per se, its prohibition on injurious statements about groups, classes, or associations must be "limited to relatively small groups, such as...four officers of a corporation, or twenty-five employees in a particular job category," he writes. But the Montana prosecutor disagrees; statements that injure the reputation of Jews as a class (or presumably Muslims, blacks, gays, men, police officers, law professors, Republicans, or any other such group as a class), the prosecutor reasons, are also covered by the statute. If I lived in Montana as I typed something like "police officers are bullies," "librarians have six toes apiece," or "Montana government officials hate free speech," I could apparently be charged with criminal defamation. That's terrifying. And certainly unconstitutional? Volokh points out that the Supreme Court did hold, in 1952, that "group libel" is constitutionally unprotected; yet since then, the Court and legal scholars have routinely rejected this opinion. Prevailing case law now holds that disrespectful, hateful, or "reputation-injuring" opinions—such as Lenio's assertion that Jews "hate free speech"—cannot be punished as defamation, which is reserved for false factual assertions. What's more, even false factual assertions cannot be considered defamatory unless the speaker knows they are false. And even deliberate falsehoods about historical matters (like the Holocaust) or economic and social issues (including the alleged behavior or characteristics of a large racial, religious, political, etc. group) are constitutionally protected as well. The most recent ruling in this regard was United States v. Alvarez (2012), where judges opined that "laws restricting false statements about philosophy, religion, history, the social sciences, the arts, and other matters of public concern" would "present a grave and unacceptable danger of suppressing truthful speech." This does not mean that "there is no such thing as truth or falsity in these areas or that the truth is always impossible to ascertain," they state, "but rather that it is perilous to permit the state to be the arbiter of truth." 
Craig Sunter (CJS64)/FlickrVia Volokh Conspiracy, a disturbing criminal case out of Montana, where Flathead County resident David Lenio, 28, is being prosecuted for making disparaging remarks about Jews on Twitter and denying that the Holocaust happened.
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#1. To: Jethro Tull (#0)
Sick. Hang the judge, guilty of gross stupidity.
When will whites wake up? Sorry for the dopey question, we're a feckless race. This will not happen to blacks.
If a black calls me a white M-F can he be put in jail?
I believe that mofo is protected speech.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Not unless he kills you, apparently. corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus
Where can I file a motion to be one Adolph Hitler's recognized legal counsel? corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus
Is the Judge a hebe ?
"Honest, April 15th is the real April Fool's Day". Doug Scheidt
Voltaire said "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Jews are making Hitler look better every day.
I'd vote for Hitler ... I'd have a real hard time voting for a Jew. "Honest, April 15th is the real April Fool's Day". Doug Scheidt
'''According to the census of June 16, 1933, the Jewish population of Germany, including the Saar region (which at that time was still under the administration of the League of Nations), was approximately 505,000 people out of a total population of 67 million, or somewhat less than 0.75 percent.'''
It Begins! Montana Man Being Persecuted for 'Hate Speech' and Holocaust Denial...
I don't believe that there were 6M bagel-sniffers in all Europe at the time.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
You may be next... but I suspect you are probably right. "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Jewish Population of Europe in 1933: Population Data by Country A biased source, btw. "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Ooops - I was off quite a bit; thank you for the correct number. I'll remember 9.5M. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
You can't. The legal system is rigged against you.
It hasn't reached a judge yet. Here's a motion to dismiss. They threw the book at him.
How can this shit be happening in MT of all places? I thought that they were correct thinkers there... “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
I thought that they were correct thinkers there... Much like Jade Helm attacking TX.
That's the feds attacking us, MT is attacking its own citizens; as I read it.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
In the link I gave to noone222, on the last page, take a look at the complainants. The FBI is involved.
Despite the source a much better article here. ... http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2015/03/19/court- papers-detail-alleged-threats-from-holocaust- denier/ District Court Judge Heidi J. Ulbricht — herself a mother — on two felony charges, intimidation and criminal defamation, .... ...His site was , PsychicDogTalk.com, "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dCTTuLhVgmo
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
psychicdogtalk.com doesn't open for me? Ulbricht is likely a Jue, but it shows again the folly of having women in black robes. Many of the worst rulings you hear about are by them, and few if pivotal good ones. No doubt she feeeeeels that hurting people's feeeeeeeeeeelings, especially da Jooz's, should be illegal since it's so "insensitive" et al. It's definitely a hippie freak love beads schoolmarm decision. The patriot movement, by contrast, contains many fantastic hard-core right-wing ladies, and I don't mean punks, goths or Nazis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Ulbricht http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotte_Ulbricht I don't know if the above freaks were Jue -- extremely likely in my studied opinion -- but the witch lived 101 years and died in 2002, no doubt peacefully as Zundel et al have been hounded from court to jail to court to jail. This is an extremely disturbing case. Doubt it would have been brought if not for the threats he stupidly made. Very hard to imagine it going the distance, but nothing can surprise me now. It is indeed ironic since Chuck Baldwin and others have viewed it as a mecca of freedom and liberty. Since the Jues don't officially exist for this great warrior, will he mention it? Nothing shows so far: http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=aOu7CAFGAyI Must see, he seems to have his head screwed on straight & is pretty darn funny. David lenio. Please download this before its scrapped, I don't have time right now. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
This case & suspect deserve much more scrutiny. Try the cache of his site & save it all if possible.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
In 2011 https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=oTeF0Kk5dtM "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
It's only a matter of time before these criminal bastards do something that galvanizes the people at large ... "when the people have nothing to lose "they LOSE IT" (Gerald Celente).
"Honest, April 15th is the real April Fool's Day". Doug Scheidt
Why should I even give a rat's rump if there were 6 Billion Beanie babies in Europe or on the planet ? The idea of generational guilt has certainly missed the mark with me. I didn't own slaves (as a matter of fact I am one), I didn't kill any Jews (even though I did eat a bagel once or twice). Screw the guilt ... "Honest, April 15th is the real April Fool's Day". Doug Scheidt
Though there are women with enough sense to make right headed decisions it would be better (in my opinion) if they couldn't. It's kinda like when people say shit like there are some "good Jews" ... I say so what, their numbers are so miniscule it might be better if they were all gone ! "Honest, April 15th is the real April Fool's Day". Doug Scheidt
Thanks for the additions to this thread Artisan.
Lord knows those of us with a clue are prepared. Personally, in 20-years, if I'm alive, I have disease and the prospect of old age stating at me. I'd rather cut that time in half and go out like a man, on my terms.
There were around that in all of Europe at the time. I read something recently that stated that after the standard war casualties, things we call "collateral damage" today despite that not reflecting human life, and the "survivors," that there was almost nothing left to have been a part of that 6 million. And strangely most of those 6M were supposed to have been killed at three camps, all on the Soviet side of the Iron Curtain of course, yet even those figures have been formally drastically downgraded since. Something rarely entering the equation is that almost all (never say never) of the "evidence" for the event came from the behind the Iron Curtain at a time when the West otherwise believed little of the propaganda dispensed from behind it. Motive exists given that the Russians were responsible for an even greater holocaust which if one could be found to have been worse would have mitigated theirs. About the biggest piece of western evidence is the footage of the work camps upon liberation showing emaciated prisoners. But the raw fact is that many Germans were starving then, not merely Jews. The proponents of it speak as if the German populace had plenty of food and clean water to drink while those in the camps were denied the same when the reality is that both were almost a luxury for any German citizen as the war got closer and closer to the end. Then of course there's the Katyn Forest Massacre, which for decades was falsely blamed on the Germans until such a time as no one cared anymore and then the truth that it was the Russians that carried it out came out. We live in a world predicated upon lies, pure lies.
Amen! “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
#2. To: Cynicom (#1)
#3. To: Jethro Tull (#2)
#4. To: Cynicom (#3)
#5. To: Cynicom (#3)
If a black calls me a white M-F can he be put in jail?
#6. To: Jethro Tull (#0)
"communicates any defamatory matter to a third person without the consent of the person defamed commits the offense of criminal defamation."
#7. To: Jethro Tull (#0)
#8. To: Jethro Tull (#0)
...it is perilous to permit the state to be the arbiter of truth.
#9. To: noone222 (#7)
#10. To: Cynicom (#9)
Jews are making Hitler look better every day.
#11. To: noone222 (#10)
#12. To: Jethro Tull, Lod, noone222, Dakmar (#2)
#13. To: Cynicom (#11)
#14. To: Lod (#13)
I don't believe that there were 6M bagel-sniffers in all Europe at the time.
#15. To: Lod (#13)
(Edited)
#16. To: Southern Style (#15)
#17. To: Dakmar (#6)
Where can I file a motion to be one Adolph Hitler's recognized legal counsel?
#18. To: noone222 (#7)
www.washingtonpost.com/ne...s/14/2015/06/LenioOpp.pdf
#19. To: Jethro Tull (#18)
#20. To: Lod (#19)
How can this shit be happening in MT of all places?
#21. To: Jethro Tull (#20)
#22. To: Lod (#21)
#23. To: Jethro Tull (#0)
#24. To: Jethro Tull (#22)
#25. To: Artisan (#24)
(Edited)
#26. To: Jethro Tull, lod, christine, x-15, katniss (#22)
#27. To: NeoconsNailed (#25)
#28. To: All (#27)
#29. To: Jethro Tull (#18)
#30. To: Lod (#13)
I don't believe that there were 6M bagel-sniffers in all Europe at the time.
#31. To: NeoconsNailed (#25)
Ulbricht is likely a Jue, but it shows again the folly of having women in black robes.
#32. To: Artisan (#26)
#33. To: noone222, *Joe Stack Lives* (#29)
It's only a matter of time before these criminal bastards do something that galvanizes the people at large
#34. To: Lod (#13)
I don't believe that there were 6M bagel-sniffers in all Europe at the time.
#35. To: Katniss (#34)
We live in a world predicated upon lies, pure lies.
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