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Title: Sorry CopBlockers, But Sometimes a Police Shooting Is Justified
Source:
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URL Source: http://libertyfight.com/2015/photos ... than_Frost_Deven_Guilford.html
Published: Jun 22, 2015
Author: .
Post Date: 2015-06-22 16:36:20 by Artisan
Keywords: None
Views: 1537
Comments: 50
There is a right and wrong way to assert your rights during encounters with police. Deven Guilford chose the very wrong way, and ended up dead, shot seven times by a county sheriff. If you look at these photos of Sgt. Jonathan Frost after the Deven Guilford shooting, you can see the officer suffered a savage beating. Judge for yourself if you think lethal force was justified. I'm far from a police state apologist or cop bootlicker, but not every police shooting is unjustified. Regardless of how this altercation began, if you beat a man like that, cop or not, he has a right to defend himself. I agree with the prosecutors report which states "law enforcement officers have the same privilege of self defense as anyone else." The recent story of 17-year old Deven Guilford brings up the issue of police abuse once again. There seems to be a never-ending stream of cases where cops gun an unarmed person down. But the tendency for civil rights advocates seems to be to blindly condemn the cops every time, even before all the facts are in. This is not sensible, nor does it lend credibility to the cause of liberty or civil rights. The shooting of the 'unarmed 17-year old white youth' in Michigan appears by all evidence to be very well justified. Deven may have been trying to 'flex his rights.' but he did it in a very unwise and irrational way. His choice of actions are what led to his death. I'll preface this by conveying the facts, very clearly, that I am not a police bootlicker or police state apologist. With that said, look at this latest case, this is an absurd case of crying wolf, CopBlock.org's recent article 17 Year-Old Boy Dead After Traffic Stop in Mulliken, MI states, in part, "What I see here is a young boy trying to take a step and possibly flex his rights for the first time. Sure, he wasn't perfect at it, but he was learning and I give him an applaud for this. What a shame it had to end in a death of a young child. The officer could have avoided such a horrific situation like this if he just let this young boy flex his rights. Nobody, especially unarmed, deserves to die for the rights we have as Americans. Justice needs to be served." Applauded?? Justice needs to be served? Try not acting like a belligerent maniac who refuses to show a license during a traffic stop and don't attacks the cop, and you most likely won't get shot. The video of this tragic exchange on a dark roadside is below. Look at the pictures below, of 'innocent looking' Deven and Officer Frost, after the obviously savage beatdown he suffered at the hands of the 17-year-old "boy." 
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#1. To: Artisan (#0)
Police who use excessive force on a regular basis make it harder for those who use it legitimately to justify it to both the public and press. CopBlock would not exist were it not the systemic failure of the police to police themselves.
John Howard says: There are 4 schools of economics: Democrats don't mind war as long as they can have big government. Republicans don't mind big government as long as they can have war. You're both right. Sometimes police have to shoot (wish they were able to more at such times), sometimes they turn into criminals themselves. Unfortunately, it appears the latter is perilously on the rise as generations who've exclusively known TV and public school all their lives hit the job market.
Thanks much for this additional information.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Look at this bogus reporting.. infowars painting this guy as some harmless innocent waif.. what B.S. and he did indeed violate many laws during the stop. --------------------- http://www.infowars.com/video-cop-murders-17-year- old-kid-for-not-complying-with-traffic-stop/ Video: Cop Murders 17-Year-Old Kid For Not Complying With Traffic Stop Boy had flashed lights at cop for having overly bright headlightsby Steve Watson | InfoWars | June 17, 2015 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Sheriff’s sergeant in Eaton County Michigan will face no charges after shooting and killing a seventeen year old for not complying with a traffic stop, despite the fact that he had committed no crime whatsoever. The shocking incident happened back in February and was captured on police body camera and partially on cell phone by Deven Guilford, who was ripped out of his vehicle, tased and then shot seven times by Sgt. Jonathan Frost. ....Frost later claimed that Deven, an unarmed and clearly non-aggressive seventeen year old kid who had just been tased, attacked the officer, managing to get on top of Frost and punch him in the face, causing him to fear for his life. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
I know, that's why your additional information is invaluable in this mess.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
And there's absolutely nothing that even seems to approach "good cops" that attempt to restrain the real psychos either. It would help if the rest acted as if they gave a shit. Clearly they don't. Or at least if they are they're too cowardly to show it. Far from the hero status that is put on them. Unfortunately in today's police-state world, they get no benefit of the doubt.
Try not acting like a belligerent maniac who refuses to show a license during a traffic stop and don't attacks the cop, and you most likely won't get shot. The video of this tragic exchange on a dark roadside is below. X-rays showed the officer had no fractures -- just a cut on his nose and a bruised eye, which could have been self-inflicted, for all anyone really knows, because video showed no physical fight with the officer, despite his allegation of being assaulted/punched. It showed Guilford on the ground trying to film the officer who had refused to provide his own ID#. Guilford wasn't acting like a belligerent maniac but was told at gunpoint anyway to get out of the car and was made to lay down on the edge of the road near traffic. He told the officer that he wasn't armed but was shot with a stun gun, then shot to death 7 times: in the head, twice in the chest, in the stomach, armpit, forearm and wrist. Guilford had simply flashed his lights at the officer's vehicle out of concern for traffic safety because it seemed the headlight high-beams were on and the officer stated on camera that others had done the same. The officer had called for backup and wasn't being threatened at all, so he didn't have to open the door of the car and forcefully pull the teen from it before that help arrived or draw his weapon for his own safety -- all of which he did while obviously not having any cause to be in fear for his life. That this wasn't a racial issue is not enough grounds, imo, to presume the killing was justified. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Thank you for those insights. Opinions, please, on why Guilford ended up dead. I have no firm reading and that's not my natural state!
I read the entire report & watched the vid & stand by my defense of the cop. I understand it was a chicjen shit reason to stop him, but guess what? When you get stopped while driving & a cop demands id, you must give it to him. Struggling, refusing & then attacking a cop is flat out insane, and this pothead maniac, a graduate of youtube university, caused his own death. I pity those who hail him as some reasonable martyr, because if they really believe that, their future looks bleak. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
I think I've actually joined your side, these rabid cop haters are really too much. I feel like I did in the early 2000s when id go to a protest & commiserate with leftists who knew 9/11 was a hoax & that the bushs were all war criminals.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Gee, if the kid had produced his STATE-ISSUED driver's license he would be alive. You don't own that license, the STATE owns it.
Marxism: steal everything
Keynesianism: steal by counterfeiting whenever needed
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#2. To: PnbC (#1)
#3. To: Artisan (#0)
#4. To: Lod, jethro tull (#3)
#5. To: Artisan (#4)
#6. To: PnbC (#1)
Police who use excessive force on a regular basis make it harder for those who use it legitimately to justify it to both the public and press.
#7. To: Artisan (#0)
(Edited)
If you look at these photos of Sgt. Jonathan Frost after the Deven Guilford shooting, you can see the officer suffered a savage beating.
#8. To: GreyLmist (#7)
#9. To: GreyLmist, neoconsnailed, christine, lod, titorite, jethro tull, katniss, x-15, purplerose (#7)
#10. To: jeethro tull (#9)
#11. To: GreyLmist (#7)
-Alex Kurtagic
#12. To: GreyLmist (#7)
You really reached far for that one. just a cut on his nose and a bruised eye, which could have been self-inflicted, for all anyone really knows
-Alex Kurtagic
#13. To: Artisan (#10)
Glad to hear it Artisan. This latest attack on the police is a coordinated effort by the left designed to usher in a national police force answerable to Washington DC. It was always a tough job performed by imperfect people, but it became much harder when they were asked to raise revenue for city & town coffers. The welfare state is responsible for that. To those who need a fainting couch each time a cop misbehaves, let them link arms with the communists at the next anti-cop protest. If they find anything in common with those groups, the problem isn't the cops, but instead it's them :)
#14. To: Artisan (#4)
I think it is vital to remeber that flashing ones headlights is not a criminal or vehicular violation. I was unable to watch the video but from what i read the boy was.tazered in the neck..... that should of been enough unless the tazer malfunctioned or the boy was immune to electricity which i dont believe...... This is no taymer rice story but i dont understand how professionally trained officers couldnt take down an unarmed punk seventeen year old without tazers and bullets.
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Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) If you don't control your mind someone else will.
#15. To: Artisan, All (#9) (Edited)
Agree, but IMO the problem here is that people are trying to enforce the Constitutional rights that cops otherwise have taken from them de facto. It's a natural thing for "the pendulum" to swing the other way in societal matters, and while he may have been wrong, that doesn't alter the general trend amongst LE to use excessive (highly understated) as a rule throughout the nation. This also doesn't include the highway robbery of their thefts of peoples' money and possessions on the interstates, falsely planting and contriving evidence against otherwise innocent arrestees, etc. I think we need to parse this discussion a little bit. Bottom line is that at some point there's simply going to be a blow back like this unless the general trend of the establishment LE changes. We always talk about when people are going to say that "enough is enough," these are symptoms and signs of that. Yet, when it happens we all chastise those that draw those lines. Again, not saying that this kid was right, he wasn't, but the cops in general, are far more wrong far more consistently. When you get stopped while driving & a cop demands id, you must give it to him. Struggling, refusing & then attacking a cop is flat out insane, and this pothead maniac, a graduate of youtube university, caused his own death. I pity those who hail him as some reasonable martyr, because if they really believe that, their future looks bleak.
#16. To: X-15 (#11)
The officer's video that I posted at #7 is no longer available. Will try to find a replacement but the teen had stated at one point that he didn't have his license with him. Gee, if the kid had produced his STATE-ISSUED driver's license he would be alive. You don't own that license, the STATE owns it.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#17. To: GreyLmist (#16)
That's an arrestable offense, and the man was STUPID for driving without his STATE-ISSUED license if what you allege is true.
-Alex Kurtagic
#18. To: X-15 (#12)
You really reached far for that one. Glad to see you didn't type "over-reached" since it was the fairest conclusion that I could reach, under the evidentiary circumstances, that wasn't entirely faith-based per whatever the officer alleged about it. just a cut on his nose and a bruised eye, which could have been self-inflicted, for all anyone really knows
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#19. To: X-15, Artisan, Jethro Tull (#17)
I may or may not have a license with me at all times, but I always told the officer when I was stopped "I don't have my license with me." It gave him the option to write me for that (no points) instead of speeding and it worked more often than not. There is something bad wrong with the idea that the cop in the pictures was under medical care and had all that dried blood all over his face. That's an arrestable offense, and the man was STUPID for driving without his STATE-ISSUED license if what you allege is true.
The 2 best times to keep your mouth shut are when you’re swimming & when you’re angry.
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#20. To: X-15 (#17) (Edited)
It is true and he seemed somewhat scared that it would be an arrestable offense. I think he tried to say that he'd just given his brother a ride to church and had forgotten it before he left home but that he did have a valid one, then said something at a later point to the effect that he did have it with him after all. Am not sure now when exactly the officer opened the car door and pulled him out during the discussion, forcing him to the pavement at the edge of the road near traffic, but it was apparent that the officer could have reasonably waited for the help he had summoned to arrive because he wasn't being threatened by the teen. That's an arrestable offense, and the man was STUPID for driving without his STATE-ISSUED license if what you allege is true.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#21. To: X-15 (#17) (Edited)
Driving unlicensed is a moving violation. Driving with out carrying your license is nothing. A non crime. You cant be arrested for it if you provide your info so as to allow the state sanction standing army to verify that all of your papers are in order..... I still dont understand how a vetran cop who has been trained to physically handle himself could not over power a child without killing him.... This is all the cops now. It's like the only people they use.their self defense training on his their wives.and children, everyone else gets a.tazer and a bullet because "Cops lives matter more" and our lives are worth less than nothing to them.
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Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) If you don't control your mind someone else will.
#22. To: titorite (#21)
Driving without your license violation for which a summons can be issued.
#23. To: Jethro Tull (#22)
No it aint. If you have a licence but just did not bring it with you, that is not a crime. One would still be licenced to drive.regardless. now driving on a suspended or revoked licence or driving unliscenenced, thats is a violation.
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Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) If you don't control your mind someone else will.
#24. To: GreyLmist (#20)
And miss out on a chance to play pretend hero? What kind of cop would? , but it was apparent that the officer could have reasonably waited for the help he had summoned to arrive because he wasn't being threatened by the teen.
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Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) If you don't control your mind someone else will.
#25. To: titorite (#23)
It's a violation, not a crime and an officer can issue a ticket. You can kick, scream, hold your breath until you turn blue, but that's the deal. No it aint. If you have a licence but just did not bring it with you, that is not a crime.
#26. To: titorite (#21)
People are routinely arrested in Texas for getting caught without their drivers license, you know this as well as I do. I read about it all the time: Juan Garcia arrested for no license and no insurance. You've read the same story, too. Occasionally a cop will not arrest you, depending on circumstances and whether or not you are an asshole about it. State-issued license is required to drive on state roads: that's the deal.
-Alex Kurtagic
#27. To: X-15, jethro tull, titorite (#26)
Yes, in Ca its an infraction too if you are licensed but don't have it with you when pulled over. Not a big deal because they'll usually let you slide if it was just a mistake. They can run your name & check.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
#28. To: Artisan (#27)
I can't recall anyone giving a ticket to a licensed operator simply b/c he forgot his license, but times have changed. I would think a ticket would be dismissed if it was produced in court (or better yet say you lost it and apply for another if stopped). Not a big deal because they'll usually let you slide if it was just a mistake. They can run your name & check.
#29. To: All (#16)
From the Description section: The traffic stop was for a civil infraction for flashing his bright lights at an oncoming vehicle closer than 500 feet. ... ended in a snow-filled ditch ... no video of the final moments. Frost's body camera came off during the [alleged] fight and his SUV had no dash camera; Guilford's cell phone remained on the pavement, recording audio of the shots but no video of the shooting. It was later determined Guilford's license was with his girlfriend, [Eaton County Prosecutor Doug] Lloyd said. Winter in Michigan, February. Guilford resisted being forcefully pulled out of the car. Got out himself with a weapon pointed at him. Ordered to get down on the pavement at the edge of the road near traffic, in a short sleeve t-shirt. The officer's video that I posted at #7 is no longer available. Will try to find a replacement
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#30. To: Artisan (#0)
Ok ok drivers stuff aside. We are still talking about a tactically trained professonal authority armed with a baton, a tazer and a gun right? Vrs seventeen nothing punk kid with no training or weapons. Right? Why did the tazer in the neck fail? Why not just do a jonit lock into submission? You only shoot to kill but thats a last resort...could the grown man really not take.that boy?
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Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) If you don't control your mind someone else will.
#31. To: titorite, GreyLmist (#30)
We do not live in a perfect world. Until we do, it is best not to start shit with a cop. Leave that to your lawyer. The system is rigged, I get it, but an unfair ticket is better that an ass beating any day, in my book.
corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus
#32. To: Dakmar (#31)
Of course of course.and i get.that and i get the need for.authorities to.bring the.tardy and criminal in..... But im.just saying.... training, age, weapons, vrs inexperience,.youth, and no weapons..... I dont understand why the cop.couldnt take him with out killing him... but then again most cops are lazy lver.weight incompetents.these days , unable to.tell.the.differnece.between a bannana and a gun....
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Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) If you don't control your mind someone else will.
#33. To: titorite (#32)
You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride. You have to pick and choose your battles in life, roadside with a cop is about the worst place to resist/fight.
-Alex Kurtagic
#34. To: X-15 (#33)
Without a doubt, but all the same,.. weak unarmed child.vrs armed trained adult? ... i mean if he was other than white would everyone feel differnt? Maybe he did wrong... not defending him. I ponder how the officer had no other choice despite all his.advantages.
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Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) If you don't control your mind someone else will.
#35. To: titorite (#34)
He was a grown man with two fists. Plenty of men his age have entered the military and fought in wars. That traffic stop had two possible outcomes and he made a poor choice and paid for it with his life. When I get pulled over (it's been a long time) I have my license and insurance card out and in my left hand so that the cop doesn't even have to ask for it. I'm a responsible driver in that regard. You know how the French Resistance survived the war? They had their "papers" in order at all times, had an alibi for their activities, and they didn't pitch a fit in public while they were at a disadvantage. IOW, they kept a low profile when out and about. This young man failed to "Be Prepared", he was no Boy Scout
-Alex Kurtagic
#36. To: titorite (#34)
One smack with a nightstick across the back and Deven would probably still be alive. But oh, no, the liberals tell us, tazers are much more humane...
corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus
#37. To: X-15, titorite (#35)
I've been pulled over (long, long ago, of course) for flagrant violations. Simple courtesy and the desired level of honesty left me a few dollars light but no worse for the wear. When I get pulled over (it's been a long time) I have my license and insurance card out and in my left hand so that the cop doesn't even have to ask for it. I'm a responsible driver in that regard.
corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus
#38. To: X-15 (#35) (Edited)
As a man i know i can take.most. any but the most roided out 17 year old... just saying. If i had a baton and he had nothing, i could detain him, and i only know what i learned the hard way... No professional.training. And the officer had a.baton and is trained in restraint holds, then mace, then tazers, then the last resort, kill em with the gun. As too many cops enjoy free mossad training, free access to military grade eapons, the mentality to kill first and lie later,... no... .no i do not find this defensable nor excusable, just another police.state murder. It happens every day. What would whotes do if he were.white. well Here we are. And again i stand with truth and right.... WQhy was it that the officer could not kick his ass. That was out of the question so he tazed him in the neck.... why.did this not work? This drops anyone. It can kill people. But not this.kid. f For what ever reason the tazer failed then he killed.the boy. Back up was available. Waiting for back up.against an unarmed individuale, was an option, a reasonable and logical option. This is.no more.excusable than any other police.state murder i condemn.
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Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) If you don't control your mind someone else will.
#39. To: X-15 (#33) (Edited)
Good advice. However, if the officer had ordered him to wait in the back of the squad car until the backup help arrived because he was going to be transported to the police station, he probably would have done that, since there was a weapon being pointed at him when he complied with the order to get on the ground near traffic, at risk of his life or bodily harm. The weather alone last winter in that area could have caused bodily harm in a very short time. Sometimes there are almost warmish days in February around the Great Lakes region but doubtful that was the case in Michigan last February -- coldest winter in at least a century, maybe ever on record. On one day, the temp rose 34 degrees and still only got to 17 degrees. One year, I had to try and shovel the driveway in a hurry but could only find one glove. Made the mistake of not putting a sock on my other hand as a mitten and my fingertips have never fully recovered from being frostbit. Oddly enough, the officer's last name in this issue is Frost, so I think it's all the more topical to point out the weather endangerment issue as an indication that the officer wasn't acting rationally, regardless of Guilford's delayed compliance. Edit to add that the officer's first name being Jonathan, Jack might be his nickname...Jack Frost. You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride. You have to pick and choose your battles in life, roadside with a cop is about the worst place to resist/fight.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#40. To: GreyLmist (#39)
That possible scenario ended when Deven exited the car after violently kicking the door open. However, if the officer had ordered him to wait in the back of the squad car until the backup help arrived
corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus
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