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Title: VOTING REPUBLICAN NOT GOING TO SAVE YOU - Orthodox Christians Must Now Learn To Live as Exiles in Our Own Country
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URL Source: http://time.com/3938050/orthodox-ch ... -as-exiles-in-our-own-country/
Published: Jun 28, 2015
Author: Rod Dreher
Post Date: 2015-06-28 04:49:48 by HAPPY2BME-4UM
Keywords: CHRISTIANITY, RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION, FIRST AMENDMENT, SUPREME COURT
Views: 1686
Comments: 59
No, the sky is not falling — not yet, anyway — but with the Supreme Court ruling constitutionalizing same-sex marriage, the ground under our feet has shifted tectonically. It is hard to overstate the significance of the Obergefell decision — and the seriousness of the challenges it presents to orthodox Christians and other social conservatives. Voting Republican and other failed culture war strategies are not going to save us now. Discerning the meaning of the present moment requires sobriety, precisely because its radicalism requires of conservatives a realistic sense of how weak our position is in post-Christian America. The alarm that the four dissenting justices sounded in their minority opinions is chilling. Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Antonin Scalia were particularly scathing in pointing out the philosophical and historical groundlessness of the majority’s opinion. Justice Scalia even called the decision “a threat to democracy,” and denounced it, shockingly, in the language of revolution. It is now clear that for this Court, extremism in the pursuit of the Sexual Revolution’s goals is no vice. True, the majority opinion nodded and smiled in the direction of the First Amendment, in an attempt to calm the fears of those worried about religious liberty. But when a Supreme Court majority is willing to invent rights out of nothing, it is impossible to have faith that the First Amendment will offer any but the barest protection to religious dissenters from gay rights orthodoxy. Indeed, Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito explicitly warned religious traditionalists that this decision leaves them vulnerable. Alito warns that Obergefell “will be used to vilify Americans who are unwilling to assent to the new orthodoxy,” and will be used to oppress the faithful “by those who are determined to stamp out every vestige of dissent.” The warning to conservatives from the four dissenters could hardly be clearer or stronger. So where does that leave us? For one, we have to accept that we really are living in a culturally post-Christian nation. The fundamental norms Christians have long been able to depend on no longer exist. To be frank, the court majority may impose on the rest of the nation a view widely shared by elites, but it is also a view shared by a majority of Americans. There will be no widespread popular resistance to Obergefell. This is the new normal. For another, LGBT activists and their fellow travelers really will be coming after social conservatives. The Supreme Court has now, in constitutional doctrine, said that homosexuality is equivalent to race. The next goal of activists will be a long-term campaign to remove tax-exempt status from dissenting religious institutions. The more immediate goal will be the shunning and persecution of dissenters within civil society. After today, all religious conservatives are Brendan Eich, the former CEO of Mozilla who was chased out of that company for supporting California’s Proposition 8. Third, the Court majority wrote that gays and lesbians do not want to change the institution of marriage, but rather want to benefit from it. This is hard to believe, given more recent writing from gay activists like Dan Savage expressing a desire to loosen the strictures of monogamy in all marriages. Besides, if marriage can be redefined according to what we desire — that is, if there is no essential nature to marriage, or to gender — then there are no boundaries on marriage. Marriage inevitably loses its power. In that sense, social and religious conservatives must recognize that the Obergefell decision did not come from nowhere. It is the logical result of the Sexual Revolution, which valorized erotic liberty. It has been widely and correctly observed that heterosexuals began to devalue marriage long before same-sex marriage became an issue. The individualism at the heart of contemporary American culture is at the core of Obergefell — and at the core of modern American life. This is profoundly incompatible with orthodox Christianity. But this is the world we live in today. One can certainly understand the joy that LGBT Americans and their supporters feel today. But orthodox Christians must understand that things are going to get much more difficult for us. We are going to have to learn how to live as exiles in our own country. We are going to have to learn how to live with at least a mild form of persecution. And we are going to have to change the way we practice our faith and teach it to our children, to build resilient communities. It is time for what I call the Benedict Option. In his 1982 book After Virtue, the eminent philosopher Alasdair MacIntyre likened the current age to the fall of ancient Rome. He pointed to Benedict of Nursia, a pious young Christian who left the chaos of Rome to go to the woods to pray, as an example for us. We who want to live by the traditional virtues, MacIntyre said, have to pioneer new ways of doing so in community. We await, he said “a new — and doubtless very different — St. Benedict.” Throughout the early Middle Ages, Benedict’s communities formed monasteries, and kept the light of faith burning through the surrounding cultural darkness. Eventually, the Benedictine monks helped refound civilization. I believe that orthodox Christians today are called to be those new and very different St. Benedicts. How do we take the Benedict Option, and build resilient communities within our condition of internal exile, and under increasingly hostile conditions? I don’t know. But we had better figure this out together, and soon, while there is time. Last fall, I spoke with the prior of the Benedictine monastery in Nursia, and told him about the Benedict Option. So many Christians, he told me, have no clue how far things have decayed in our aggressively secularizing world. The future for Christians will be within the Benedict Option, the monk said, or it won’t be at all. Obergefell is a sign of the times, for those with eyes to see. This isn’t the view of wild-eyed prophets wearing animal skins and shouting in the desert. It is the view of four Supreme Court justices, in effect declaring from the bench the decline and fall of the traditional American social, political, and legal order. We live in interesting times. Poster Comment: ============================================= This is happening at breakneck speed." . . we have to accept that we really are living in a culturally post-Christian nation. The fundamental norms Christians have long been able to depend on no longer exist. To be frank, the court majority may impose on the rest of the nation a view widely shared by elites, but it is also a view shared by a majority of Americans. There will be no widespread popular resistance to Obergefell. This is the new normal."
Orthodox Christians Must Now Learn To Live as Exiles in Our Own Country
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#19. To: Obnoxicated (#18)
A K A Stone suspended me. Last time it was a year; somehow I survive. Frederick was my Grandpa's first name. He immigrated here from Germany and ended up in Brooklyn, NY.
I actually lay awake for hours last night. I couldn't sleep thinking about this and thinking about the gall of the WH inhabitants rainbowing its exterior. I feel like an alien in my own country and among many of my acquaintances. I am particularly distressed because I am muzzled. Silenced. Even if my argument is that I don't believe that government should be involved in marriage, that, it is a private contract between two people(or more); and how dangerous it is that the USSC ruling superseded the power of the individual states, the response is ignorance or derision. It doesn't matter one iota that I may be offended by the draconian politically corrected culture. I saw this quote by Laurence Vance and I identify with it completely. "If the Confederate flag must be taken down because it offends someone, then can rainbow flags be taken down if they offend me? Of course not. Wanting to take them down would make me a bigot and a homophobe." Truth is still truth even if no one believes it. A lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it.
Thanks for sharing even though it is not a pleasant topic. Free Booklet - The Zionist Attack on Western Civilization (With C.C.)
No offense intended, Fred. Ever seen the movie Young Frankenstein? There's a scene where Gene Wilder pronounces his name "Fronkensteen" and Eyegore (Marty Feldman) asks him "Do you pronounce your first name as "Froedrick"? That's where it all came from.
Now you know how Adolf felt.
I've seen youtube videos of groups of 5 year old black kids doing the same dance. What the hell are they teaching these people?
My feeling is that the WH, deecee, and the country in general has been invaded by aliens.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
I have been trying to make that point for months.
======================================================== U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
Obama: Rockefeller’s man in the White House close to total victory https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2015/06/27/obama-rockefellers-man-in-the-white-house-close-to-total-victory/
jonrappoport.wordpress.co...e-close-to-total-victory/
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
White Southern boys in particular. As this sick country rips down their culture they should be leaving the military in droves, hopefully to stay prepared for resistance. ============================================================ No. God is NOT mocked. God has now lifted his hand of protection over America. There is no turning back now. This country is on the target list of every nation on earth. CHINA AND RUSSIA REJOICE - Momentum grows to scrap Pentagon's ban on transgender troops U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
We should go to only queer and transgendered troops. That should make everyone happy. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
That should make everyone happy ================================================ I'll raise the stakes just a tad and start drafting NOTHING BUT QUEERS, LESBIANS, AND TRANSGENDERS. Icing on the cake: DISQUALIFY ALL STRAIGHT MALES U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
Af'ingmen Truth is still truth even if no one believes it. A lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it.
You are not muzzled other than self muzzling. You can opt to be silent, but that is a conscious choice. Yes, speaking your truth may result in both ignorance and derision in response, but that is a small price to pay. Silence has a price. In truth, your silence gives power to the draconian politically corrected culture. They want your silence. You decide if you want to give that to them. Personally, I will cheer for free speech and free symbols in the face of this idiocy. It is not the speech or the symbol that evokes actions from individuals but rather the suppression of both. Suppression is dangerous and in direct opposition to freedom. Silence is suppression. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Of course, you are correct. I have to decide for myself if I'm willing to pay for the price for voicing my opinions particularly among my dance community/cult. The sad thing is that this issue has caused a rift between my son and Bill and me because his wife is a rabid supporter of all of it. She accused me once of being racist (she meant bigot) when we engaged in a discussion about that vile HBO show True Blood and I objected to its disgusting homosexuality. Truth is still truth even if no one believes it. A lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it.
Che, he also rips Homos fiercely. His T-shirts sold to the young are a tribute to our national stupidity. Sigh..sigh...sigh.... Truth is still truth even if no one believes it. A lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it.
Icing on the cake: DISQUALIFY ALL STRAIGHT MALES Oh my!! My new fantasy! Truth is still truth even if no one believes it. A lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it.
I'm sorry to hear that. It is ridiculous that the homo agenda has to be front and center now 24/7....and even that is morphing to trans agenda. How tolerant of her to call you a racist!! Wow, she really is the poster child for accepting other points of view and opinions!! I hope you pointed that out to her. : ) IMHO, do NOT let her shame you into silence. Grant her the free will to her opinion and respectfully state your own with the caveat that you expect the same courtesy in return. Accept nothing less!! Remember, you get more of what you subsidize. " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
As you know the Iraqi war did the same to my brother and I.
I thought that Roberts voted pro, no? I don't pay attention to this stuff and fail to see why it surprises anyone anymore. I'm quite seriously expecting, within five years or so, to see our first cases of bestiality with people actually arguing that "if the animal doesn't mind ..." This nation has no moral base to operate from anymore besides that of "who are we to judge ..." Ironically, much as Satan fooled Eve, so too his twisted logic has permeated our world, via the Usual Suspects and the Synagogue of Satan and its goal to undermine Christ, to poison it with its moral filth. Ironically, Germany had the same issue pre-WWII, but it's actually far, far worse here, now, today.
According to the article which began this thread, there were four dissenters to the homo ruling, roberts among them. You're probably thinking of his two votes upholding obamacare. He's a real rat. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Surely, your brother has seen the light by now. Goodness.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
I wouldn't know Jim, nor do I care.
You'll know this is all Team Shmuel at work after a Republican wins handily in 2016 and nothing is repealed, nothing is overturned, amnesty's still a go and for sure all the electronic surveillance remains in place.
#20. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#0)
#21. To: christine (#20)
#22. To: Fred Mertz (#19)
#23. To: christine, 4 (#20)
I hate to be crude, but this is how Republics die. This is your (our) fear.
#24. To: Jethro Tull (#23)
#25. To: Jethro Tull (#23)
#26. To: christine (#20)
#27. To: Lod (#26)
My feeling is that the WH, deecee, and the country in general has been invaded by aliens.
#28. To: christine (#20)
I saw this quote by Laurence Vance and I identify with it completely. "If the Confederate flag must be taken down because it offends someone, then can rainbow flags be taken down if they offend me? Of course not. Wanting to take them down would make me a bigot and a homophobe."
Johnny Cash Sends FRESH ALPHA and OMEGA MESSAGE TO THE SUPREME COURT
#29. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#28)
#30. To: Neo TryingtoWarnYou (#29)
#31. To: Jethro Tull, Obnoxicated (#6)
A good start at dissenting would be to quit fighting their wars for them. Why should christian boys fight and die when the very people they're protecting are spitting on their beliefs back home?
#32. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#31)
#33. To: Lod (#32)
We should go to only queer and transgendered troops.
#34. To: Obnoxicated (#1)
A good start at dissenting would be to quit fighting their wars for them. Why should christian boys fight and die when the very people they're protecting are spitting on their beliefs back home? I say eff 'em. Let the faggots and their jew handlers fight their own fights.
#35. To: christine (#20)
I am particularly distressed because I am muzzled. Silenced. Even if my argument is that I don't believe that government should be involved in marriage, that, it is a private contract between two people(or more); and how dangerous it is that the USSC ruling superseded the power of the individual states, the response is ignorance or derision. It doesn't matter one iota that I may be offended by the draconian politically corrected culture.
#36. To: abraxas (#35)
#37. To: Jethro Tull, All (#12)
"The negro is indolent and spends his money on frivolities and drink: the european is forward looking, organized and intelligent. The negro has maintained his racial purity by his well known habit of avoiding baths."
#38. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#33)
I'll raise the stakes just a tad and start drafting NOTHING BUT QUEERS, LESBIANS, AND TRANSGENDERS.
#39. To: christine (#36)
The sad thing is that this issue has caused a rift between my son and Bill and me because his wife is a rabid supporter of all of it. She accused me once of being racist (she meant bigot) when we engaged in a discussion about that vile HBO show True Blood and I objected to its disgusting homosexuality.
#40. To: abraxas, christine, H2, 4 (#39)
buckie - we need to change our beliefs re: gay marriage and more -
#41. To: All (#40)
most excellent break-down/commentary on scalia's dissent -
#42. To: All (#41)
#43. To: christine (#36)
The sad thing is that this issue has caused a rift between my son and Bill and me
#44. To: Artisan (#5)
The Catholics voted good on this one though.
#45. To: Katniss (#44)
#46. To: Jethro Tull (#43)
#47. To: Lod (#46)
Surely, your brother has seen the light by now.
#48. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#0)
-Alex Kurtagic
#49. To: X-15 (#48)
========================================= I'm not so sure Hillary won't triumph, especially with the recent USSC blessing in her wind. Do Americans still not comprehend what real integrity is? We'll know in '16, or perhaps even sooner. Looking at current events, will there even be a '16? Great coverage though on the huge 'differences' between the DNC and GOP. Neither will dare grant so much as a fart in the direction of the Constitution, or for the good of the nation. And neither will relinquish any of their stolen powers, once it is firmly in their grasp. You'll know this is all Team Shmuel at work after a Republican wins handily in 2016 and nothing is repealed, nothing is overturned, amnesty's still a go and for sure all the electronic surveillance remains in place.
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
#50. To: X-15 (#48)
SANDERS 'REAL THREAT' TO HILLARY
WILL BIDEN RUN? 
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
#51. To: Jethro Tull (#47)
I am so sorry to learn this, so sorry. At the end of the day, God and family are all that we have.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
#52. To: Artisan (#5) (Edited)
We regret to inform you, Sir, that they're still hateful, despicable criminals.
#53. To: Obnoxicated (#11) (Edited)
Fantastic find!!!! I've been enjoying hating Che for years, yet I'm getting reports he wasn't the total waste we've been thinking. He's almost out of the same pod as the great Smedley Butler here, from wikip -- As a young medical student, Guevara traveled throughout South America and was radicalized by the poverty, hunger, and disease he witnessed.[6] His burgeoning desire to help overturn what he saw as the capitalist exploitation of Latin America by the United States prompted his involvement in Guatemala's social reforms under President Jacobo Árbenz, whose eventual CIA-assisted overthrow at the behest of the United Fruit Company solidified Guevara's political ideology. Smedley himself cites the United Fruit Co as a metaphor for the whole stinking problem! Things are not always what they seem. One of my closest anti-communist allies who is also my main expatriation guru (lives part time in Panama) says Ortega was the good guy the whole time in Nicaragua. Looking back on the USG I so foolishly trusted and the Reagan admin I so dumbly respected back in the '80s, I have to say it would be easy to believe. The Castros are still abominable -- everybody seems fortunately agreed on that.
#54. To: Jethro Tull (#6) (Edited)
You've got a good point there. White Southrons being more conservative have for too long been suckers for military adventure and uniform worship. It's partly the Scots-Irish in them. Believe they were drafted more while we had a draft, in addition to being chronically taxed more by Babylon-on-the-Potomac. White Southern boys in particular. As this sick country rips down their culture they should be leaving the military in droves, hopefully to stay prepared for resistance.
#55. To: christine (#36)
I and no doubt many here can empathize, Christine. Families are a tragic matter for 99% of aware, concerned people. Seeing the light has ruined things in my case. Everybody's supposed to lead their own life and we're supposed to be able to ignore differences with our nearest and dearest, but there's one little problem -- escapist small talk is all they're up for when they're not openly liberal. For the first time in a long time this year (now that my last semi-ally, my conservativoid mother, is gone) I told my clan I wouldn't be coming to the annual gathering, just concluded -- for the above reasons. Voila, they didn't have to censor themselves and I didn't either -- whooppeeee!! I being a rotten sinner am in NO position to judge them, but knowing how many Revo heroes and founding fathers my family comes directly down from, and how the summer cottage was a temple of racially incorrect truth under our grandparents while we were growing up, I simply can't get myself to accept that they DON'T GIVE A DAMN and that Patrick Henry is just a nice museum piece to them. It disturbs me profoundly. They have only ONE desire in this world, to be as conventional as possible. >SCREEEEEEAAAAM!< That's one of the many reasons I'm so grateful for 4um -- just can't tell you how much. Christine and everybody.
#56. To: Lod (#42)
Wow, even Leonard Cohen knows! I collect real-world songs -- thanx.
#57. To: NeoconsNailed, christine (#55)
I know what you mean. My favorite uncle -- who loves me as a son -- hates people who "won't stand up and salute the flag." Because he was in the air force 50 years ago, you know. I haven't told him where I (don't!) stand on that issue yet. But I will at the next family reunion in 3 weeks. Should be a good time to tell him, what with all the latest that the perverts on the Potomac have been doing to us. Happily, other than the flag and uniform thing -- and the fact that he follows college and pro sports, which I hate -- he and I are aligned almost 100%. Families are a tragic matter for 99% of aware, concerned people.
#58. To: Artisan (#45) (Edited)
Yeah, actually that's what I was thinking. I don't even pay attention this shit, and that's what it is, shit, anymore. To me it's a given that the institutions of our country are hell bent, literally, and with help, guidance, and commands from the Sons of Hell as Jesus referred to them in Matthew 23 as well as in Rev. 2 & 3, on destroying our country (and the rest of the world) and creating as Satanic a "morality" as they possibly can. It's been obvious for years. Anyone that is against it all and isn't prepared to die as a direct result of it sometime in their lifetime, either that or acquiesce to it, lacks wisdom and understanding IMO. This is not going to end well for people whose faith is in Christ. I would not want to live in a world without a Christian presence. You're probably thinking of his two votes upholding obamacare. He's a real rat.
18 If the world hateth you, ye know that it hath hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love its own: but because ye are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
#59. To: StraitGate (#57)
Whew, didja see that? A rare confession indeed. I HATE 'EM TOO -- DAMN 'EM TO HELL for being such objects of idolatry!!! Anybody else? I know it's heresy even among rightists. I'm an addict. I've just gone through all the "new" posts and am now mining pings :-) college and pro sports, which I hate
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