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Title: FREE SPEECH HATERS PISSING THEIR PANTS - FLORIDA - Thousands ride in support of Confederate flag at Marion County complex
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.ocala.com/article/20150712/ARTICLES/150719928?tc=cr
Published: Jul 12, 2015
Author: By Kristine Crane
Post Date: 2015-07-12 23:36:41 by HAPPY2BME-4UM
Keywords: CONFEDERATE, CONFEDERATE FLAG, FIRST AMENDMENT, FREE SPEECH
Views: 768
Comments: 102

An estimated 2,000 vehicles, mostly motorcycles and trucks adorned with Rebel flags, took part in a rally and ride Sunday afternoon in support of keeping a Confederate flag flying in front of the McPherson Governmental Complex in Ocala.

The event was organized by David Stone, of Ocala, and was called the Florida Southern Pride Ride. Police officials estimated participation at a couple thousand vehicles.

The ride started about 1 p.m., and by 1:30 p.m. could be seen winding its way through Ocala.

Participants were wearing shirts that said “heritage not hate” and talked of defending a way of life rooted in Southern traditions.

Danny Hart, of Dunnellon, had two Confederate flags and the American flag in the back of his truck. He pointed out that the U.S. flag was flying higher and said that he had come to participate in the ride to “defend freedom.”

Another ride participant, Rick Hart, said, “It's a history thing. The flag is also a military flag. It's not a race symbol.”

Phil Walters, a member of the Confederate Sons of America, felt compelled to attend to defend history against what he calls “intellectual dishonesty.” Walters said the NAACP's 1991 resolution “abhorring the Confederate Battle Flag” has set the tone for conflict and hatred.

“According to the U.S. Congress, Confederate veterans are war veterans,” said Walters, whose branch of the Sons is named for Judah P. Benjamin, the Jewish secretary of state under Confederate President Jefferson Davis.

“The South was fighting for states' rights, and the Northern slaves were freed after Southern slaves. Slavery is a guilt across the human race.”

A replica of the General Lee from the 1979-85 “The Dukes of Hazard” TV show led the way during the ride, followed by motorcycles and then pickup trucks. The ride was expected to be 17 miles total and loop back to parking lots north of the city on North U.S. 441.

Ocala Police Department Sgt. Erica Hay said the ride was rerouted away from the Northwoods neighborhood after some residents threatened to shoot into the procession.

The ride was organized to support the Marion County Commission's decision Tuesday to return the Confederate flag to a historical display in front of the McPherson Governmental Complex. The flag had been removed after a massacre at an African-American church in Charleston. The suspected shooter is a white supremacist who was photographed with Confederate flags.

Two small protests were held last week at the county complex in opposition to the Confederate flag — which many see as a symbol of racial hatred.

On Sunday, a few black people participated in the ride. One of them, Renee Gore, 34, of Dunnellon, said that to her the flag means “heritage, love and family.”

Another black person, Dwayne Webb, 23, of Ocala, said he came specifically “to show people (the flag) is not about prejudice and hate.” For Webb, the flag represents “good living, respect, and honesty,” things that he associates with the South.

Webb participated in the ride with his friends, also in their twenties. “I got goose-bumps (during the ride),” said Mike Ponticelli, 29, also of Ocala. They were hanging out in a parking lot with several of the other participants after the ride's conclusion.

“We were standing up for what we believe in: manners and common courtesy towards all people, no matter who you are,” Ponticelli said.

“It's a positive movement,” Webb added.

A handful of people who view the flag as a sign of disrespect also showed up at the ride, holding signs that explained why they are against the flag flying in front of a governmental building.

Laila Abdelaziz, 23, who came to the rally from Tampa, held a sign with a quote from one of the flag's defenders in the 1860s, whose defense of the symbol was rooted in white supremacy.

“What if your heritage is rooted in hate?” Abdelaziz said. “You have to confront that.”

Abdelaziz, who was born in Palestine and came to the U.S. with her parents as a child, said she is very familiar with dynamics of hatred. “I know what hatred does to people,” she said. “America has to confront the fact that someone younger than me killed people out of hatred.”

Abdelaziz said she also came to protest the ride to speak for another part of Ocala, where her parents live and she also lived for some time.

“This (ride) does not represent all of Ocala,” Abdelaziz said.

In the aftermath of the Charleston killings, too much emphasis has been placed on the flag, she added. “Dylann Roof held the flag in one hand, and a gun in the other. We've heard more about the flag than the gun control problem in America.”

On Sunday evening, Awake Marion, in conjunction with the NAACP, held a meeting at the Second Bethlehem Baptist Theological Seminary in Ocala. About 75 people attended the meeting, where they discussed how to express their disagreement with the County Commission's decision to raise the Confederate flag. Draft copies of a letter to the Board of County Commissioners were handed out.

The organizers also announced that a peaceful sit-in to protest the flag will take place Wednesday at 9 a.m. at the south end of the McPherson Governmental Complex. The sit-in is being sponsored by Brown Memorial Funeral Home. (8 images)

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 42.

#9. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#0)

jwpegler  posted on  2015-07-13   12:16:26 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: jwpegler (#9)

There was no confederacy...there was mass treason that was quelled.

war  posted on  2015-07-13   12:38:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: war, jwpegler, jethro tull, lod, neoconsnailed, x-15 (#10)

There was no confederacy...there was mass treason that was quelled.

--Perfecting Obscurity Since 1958...

==========================================================

war, are you aware that Abraham Lincoln attempted to ratify the 13th Amendment for the purpose of legalizing the ownership of human being as property (slavery)?

He was unsuccessful.

Pound sand.

HAPPY2BME-4UM  posted on  2015-07-13   16:33:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: war, jwpegler, jethro tull, lod, neoconsnailed, x-15, CHRISTINE (#13)

HAPPY2BME-4UM  posted on  2015-07-13   21:20:31 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#14)

war, are you aware that Abraham Lincoln attempted to ratify the 13th Amendment for the purpose of legalizing the ownership of human being as property (slavery)?

Prior to the war, Lincoln was a supporter of the Corwin amendment as it was consistent with his belief that slave states should maintain self- determination. Lincoln was wholly opposed to the expansion of slavery in to new territories.

This was rendered moot when the South committed treason.

war  posted on  2015-07-14   8:26:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: war (#17)

Is the Union perpetual through the rest of time regardless of what percentage of the people still want it?

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2015-07-14   8:46:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: NeoconsNailed (#18)

Is the Union perpetual through the rest of time regardless of what percentage of the people still want it?

The Union has a mechanism for dissolution...the constitutional amendment...

war  posted on  2015-07-14   9:01:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: war (#20)

I can see it now -- "The Amendment to let the Southern states leave the Union has been passed. Mr. Lincoln is not expected to veto."

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2015-07-14   9:44:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: NeoconsNailed (#21) (Edited)

I can see it now -- "The Amendment to let the Southern states leave the Union has been passed. Mr. Lincoln is not expected to veto."

No Amendment was necessary to dissolve State bonds with the Union. Reference the Declaration of Independence. No Amendment was needed either to dissolve America's original government entirely, the establishment of which was called the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union. Replacement of the Articles of Confederation with the U.S. Constitution by less than 100% ratification of the States was itself seen as an act of secession by some of those States of the Articles compact and also by some of our founders like John Jay, who became our first U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice.

GreyLmist  posted on  2015-07-14   19:31:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: GreyLmist (#26) (Edited)

Reference the Declaration of Independence.

Where is that referenced in the United States Constitution?

Replacement of the Articles of Confederation with the U.S. Constitution by less than 100% ratification of the States was itself seen as an act of secession by some of those States of the Articles compact and also by some of our founders like John Jay, who became our first U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice.

That's an obvious statement of history...the states which negotiated the USCON agreed that only 9 were needed for the Union...

"The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same..."

war  posted on  2015-07-15   8:24:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: war (#29)

Reference the Declaration of Independence.

Where is that referenced in the United States Constitution?

The 9th and 10th Amendments.

the states which negotiated the USCON agreed that only 9 were needed for the Union...

The secessionist States agreed in violation of the Articles of Confederation:

[T]he Articles of this Confederation shall be inviolably observed by every State, and the Union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a Congress of the United States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State.

On the other hand, Article VII of the proposed Constitution stated that it would become effective after ratification by a mere nine states, without unanimity

GreyLmist  posted on  2015-07-15   11:29:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: GreyLmist (#33)

The 9th and 10th Amendments.

I've read them several times and never was the Declaration of Independence referenced. And the Declaration was a culmination of a meeting of the WHOLE of The People...not one delegation.

There is a difference between a Confederation and a Republic. As is mentioned in the A/I the Union was to be perpetual. The Preamble of the USCON clearly states that the Union was to be *more* Perfect. I can't see any track of logic that leads me to believe that a Perpetual Union, made more perfect, was one that could be negated by one member.

war  posted on  2015-07-16   7:25:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: war (#34)

The 9th and 10th Amendments.

I've read them several times and never was the Declaration of Independence referenced. And the Declaration was a culmination of a meeting of the WHOLE of The People...not one delegation.

The 9th and 10th Amendments encompass all rights reserved to the States and the people, including: "it is their right, it is their duty" to throw off Despotic Government and to provide new Guards for their future security.

The Declaration was a culmination of Patriots who understood their God-given natural right to secede from despotic government without the permission of it. Loyalists to the Crown weren't of that view, so their consultations were soon no longer considered as admissable.

There is a difference between a Confederation and a Republic. As is mentioned in the A/I the Union was to be perpetual. The Preamble of the USCON clearly states that the Union was to be *more* Perfect. I can't see any track of logic that leads me to believe that a Perpetual Union, made more perfect, was one that could be negated by one member.

It's arguable that the secession of States from the Articles of Confederation wasn't because it was a despotic form of government but because it was more of a wartime provisional system that was too legislature-centralized. A more Perfect Perpetual Union would not be one that's despotically forced to be unfreely amalgamated.

GreyLmist  posted on  2015-07-16   15:02:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: GreyLmist (#36)

As I understand it, the Declaration is considered higher law than the Constitution. Doesn't the "alter or abolish" clause answer this whole thing? Original intent shows freedom, not statism, was the default position in the minds of the founders. The whole weight of the past millennium of history is on that side, going back to "Þorgnýr the Lawspeaker"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_revolution

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2015-07-16   15:37:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: NeoconsNailed (#40) (Edited)

As I understand it, the Declaration is considered higher law than the Constitution. Doesn't the "alter or abolish" clause answer this whole thing? Original intent shows freedom, not statism, was the default position in the minds of the founders. The whole weight of the past millennium of history is on that side, going back to "Þorgnýr the Lawspeaker"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_revolution

Right of revolution - Wikipedia

the right of revolution is the right or duty, previously stated throughout history, of the people of a nation to overthrow a government that acts against their common interests.

Liberty depended upon the people’s “ultimate” right to resist [despotic government]. ... This right implied a duty on the part of the people to resist

As Alexander Hamilton noted in 1775, government exercised powers to protect “the absolute rights” of the people and government forfeited those powers and the people could reclaim them if government breached this

nccs.net: The Declaration of Independence Part of American Law

"The role of the Declaration of Independence in American law is often misconstrued. Some believe the Declaration is simply a statement of ideas that has no legal force whatsoever today. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Declaration has been repeatedly cited by the U.S. Supreme Court as part of the fundamental law of the United States of America.

"The United States Code Annotated includes the Declaration of Independence under the heading 'The Organic Laws of the United States of America' along with the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution, and the Northwest Ordinance. Enabling acts frequently require states to adhere to the principles of the Declaration; in the Enabling Act of June 16, 1906, Congress authorized Oklahoma Territory to take steps to become a state. Section 3 provides that the Oklahoma Constitution 'shall not be repugnant to the Constitution of the United States and the principles of the Declaration of Independence.' (Christianity and the Constitution, pp. 360-361)

What is the Alter or Abolish Clause? - YouTube [2.5 minutes]

Published on Jan 8, 2014

Constitutional scholar Dr. Edwin Vieira sits down with Gary Franchi and answers the question... What is the Alter or Abolish Clause?

GreyLmist  posted on  2015-07-16   16:18:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: GreyLmist (#41)

Riches, Grey!

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2015-07-16   16:33:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 42.

#46. To: NeoconsNailed (#42) (Edited)

Riches, Grey!

Glad you found those resources at #41 to be useful, NN. The video speaker, Dr. Edwin Vieira, is an excellent and voluminous reference guide for Patriot studies of Constitutionality issues, sound money matters, American Government History to the present and also regarding the imperative Revitalization of America's Constitutional State Militias in accordance with our Founders' directives for properly securing our nation's Freedoms.

GreyLmist  posted on  2015-07-17 12:39:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 42.

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