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Title: FREE SPEECH HATERS PISSING THEIR PANTS - FLORIDA - Thousands ride in support of Confederate flag at Marion County complex
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URL Source: http://www.ocala.com/article/20150712/ARTICLES/150719928?tc=cr
Published: Jul 12, 2015
Author: By Kristine Crane
Post Date: 2015-07-12 23:36:41 by HAPPY2BME-4UM
Keywords: CONFEDERATE, CONFEDERATE FLAG, FIRST AMENDMENT, FREE SPEECH
Views: 1687
Comments: 102
An estimated 2,000 vehicles, mostly motorcycles and trucks adorned with Rebel flags, took part in a rally and ride Sunday afternoon in support of keeping a Confederate flag flying in front of the McPherson Governmental Complex in Ocala. The event was organized by David Stone, of Ocala, and was called the Florida Southern Pride Ride. Police officials estimated participation at a couple thousand vehicles. The ride started about 1 p.m., and by 1:30 p.m. could be seen winding its way through Ocala. Participants were wearing shirts that said “heritage not hate” and talked of defending a way of life rooted in Southern traditions. Danny Hart, of Dunnellon, had two Confederate flags and the American flag in the back of his truck. He pointed out that the U.S. flag was flying higher and said that he had come to participate in the ride to “defend freedom.” Another ride participant, Rick Hart, said, “It's a history thing. The flag is also a military flag. It's not a race symbol.” Phil Walters, a member of the Confederate Sons of America, felt compelled to attend to defend history against what he calls “intellectual dishonesty.” Walters said the NAACP's 1991 resolution “abhorring the Confederate Battle Flag” has set the tone for conflict and hatred. “According to the U.S. Congress, Confederate veterans are war veterans,” said Walters, whose branch of the Sons is named for Judah P. Benjamin, the Jewish secretary of state under Confederate President Jefferson Davis. “The South was fighting for states' rights, and the Northern slaves were freed after Southern slaves. Slavery is a guilt across the human race.” A replica of the General Lee from the 1979-85 “The Dukes of Hazard” TV show led the way during the ride, followed by motorcycles and then pickup trucks. The ride was expected to be 17 miles total and loop back to parking lots north of the city on North U.S. 441. Ocala Police Department Sgt. Erica Hay said the ride was rerouted away from the Northwoods neighborhood after some residents threatened to shoot into the procession. The ride was organized to support the Marion County Commission's decision Tuesday to return the Confederate flag to a historical display in front of the McPherson Governmental Complex. The flag had been removed after a massacre at an African-American church in Charleston. The suspected shooter is a white supremacist who was photographed with Confederate flags. Two small protests were held last week at the county complex in opposition to the Confederate flag — which many see as a symbol of racial hatred. On Sunday, a few black people participated in the ride. One of them, Renee Gore, 34, of Dunnellon, said that to her the flag means “heritage, love and family.” Another black person, Dwayne Webb, 23, of Ocala, said he came specifically “to show people (the flag) is not about prejudice and hate.” For Webb, the flag represents “good living, respect, and honesty,” things that he associates with the South. Webb participated in the ride with his friends, also in their twenties. “I got goose-bumps (during the ride),” said Mike Ponticelli, 29, also of Ocala. They were hanging out in a parking lot with several of the other participants after the ride's conclusion. “We were standing up for what we believe in: manners and common courtesy towards all people, no matter who you are,” Ponticelli said. “It's a positive movement,” Webb added. A handful of people who view the flag as a sign of disrespect also showed up at the ride, holding signs that explained why they are against the flag flying in front of a governmental building. Laila Abdelaziz, 23, who came to the rally from Tampa, held a sign with a quote from one of the flag's defenders in the 1860s, whose defense of the symbol was rooted in white supremacy. “What if your heritage is rooted in hate?” Abdelaziz said. “You have to confront that.” Abdelaziz, who was born in Palestine and came to the U.S. with her parents as a child, said she is very familiar with dynamics of hatred. “I know what hatred does to people,” she said. “America has to confront the fact that someone younger than me killed people out of hatred.” Abdelaziz said she also came to protest the ride to speak for another part of Ocala, where her parents live and she also lived for some time. “This (ride) does not represent all of Ocala,” Abdelaziz said. In the aftermath of the Charleston killings, too much emphasis has been placed on the flag, she added. “Dylann Roof held the flag in one hand, and a gun in the other. We've heard more about the flag than the gun control problem in America.” On Sunday evening, Awake Marion, in conjunction with the NAACP, held a meeting at the Second Bethlehem Baptist Theological Seminary in Ocala. About 75 people attended the meeting, where they discussed how to express their disagreement with the County Commission's decision to raise the Confederate flag. Draft copies of a letter to the Board of County Commissioners were handed out. The organizers also announced that a peaceful sit-in to protest the flag will take place Wednesday at 9 a.m. at the south end of the McPherson Governmental Complex. The sit-in is being sponsored by Brown Memorial Funeral Home. 
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#41. To: NeoconsNailed (#40)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_revolution Right of revolution - Wikipedia Liberty depended upon the people’s “ultimate” right to resist [despotic government]. ... This right implied a duty on the part of the people to resist As Alexander Hamilton noted in 1775, government exercised powers to protect “the absolute rights” of the people and government forfeited those powers and the people could reclaim them if government breached this nccs.net: The Declaration of Independence Part of American Law "The United States Code Annotated includes the Declaration of Independence under the heading 'The Organic Laws of the United States of America' along with the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution, and the Northwest Ordinance. Enabling acts frequently require states to adhere to the principles of the Declaration; in the Enabling Act of June 16, 1906, Congress authorized Oklahoma Territory to take steps to become a state. Section 3 provides that the Oklahoma Constitution 'shall not be repugnant to the Constitution of the United States and the principles of the Declaration of Independence.' (Christianity and the Constitution, pp. 360-361) What is the Alter or Abolish Clause? - YouTube [2.5 minutes] Published on Jan 8, 2014 Constitutional scholar Dr. Edwin Vieira sits down with Gary Franchi and answers the question... What is the Alter or Abolish Clause? ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Riches, Grey!
============================================= The Constitution is 'higher,' including all of the amendments thereto which are still in effect. That would include the Bill of Rights which is not a separate document but part of that Constitution. The reason for the importance of the Constitution can be found in the preamble where it states that the document was created to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and to our posterity. The Declaration of Independence was more influential since it was the first instance where a people asserted that they were in charge, not some king. The bill of rights is important BUT it is part and parcel of the constitution AND as recently noted in the Heller decision, the Bill of Rights does NOT give any rights, it gives limitations on government for certain rights which we belive all people to HAVE by virtue of being living human beings. The constitution was not ratified until the Bill of Rights was added and would not exist without it BUT our rights WOULD! The Declaration of independence has no legal power or authority. U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
Amen.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
But the Constitution was only witnessed, not signed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Treason In any case, we've closed the case. This is supposed to be a free country, and every indicator says that any union is based on voluntary association -- the individual model applied to the corporate.
Glad you found those resources at #41 to be useful, NN. The video speaker, Dr. Edwin Vieira, is an excellent and voluminous reference guide for Patriot studies of Constitutionality issues, sound money matters, American Government History to the present and also regarding the imperative Revitalization of America's Constitutional State Militias in accordance with our Founders' directives for properly securing our nation's Freedoms. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Vieira's well known -- Freedom to Fascism etc. Great man, been at it forever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Treason ??? United States Constitution - Wikipedia 74 delegates were named, 55 attended and 39 signed. Its final version was taken up on Monday, September 17, at the Convention's final session. Several of the delegates were disappointed in the result, a makeshift series of unfortunate compromises. Some delegates left before the ceremony, and three others refused to sign. Of the thirty-nine signers, Benjamin Franklin summed up, addressing the Convention: "There are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them." He would accept the Constitution, "because I expect no better and because I am not sure that it is not the best." ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
"In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names" http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html Rather odd, isn't it? Can you think of anything else "signed" that way? Sly dogs!
Rather odd, isn't it? Can you think of anything else "signed" that way? Sly dogs! Pic: Part of page four of the Constitution, showing the signatures of the delegates That's all I have time to research and post about that for today. When I can resume, it will most likely be after I've archived some info on the Corwin Amendment. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
The Framers' intent was to create a government wherein *change* or revolution was accomplished through debate...i.e. warring with words and argument... And keep your eye on the ball here, the tariff argument doesn't fly because, as of 1856, they were actually lower and narrower than what was passed in the 1820's...so...if your future *security* is dependent upon the power of a state government to forcibly enslave human beings then I submit that is hardly a *security* worth saving and perpetuating... The Declaration was a culmination of Patriots who understood their God-given natural right to secede from despotic government without the permission of it. The Declaration was a *culmination* of the realization that the colonists would never be granted a say in how they were governed. The Southern States suffered under no such yoke and, in fact, FREELY entered in to an agreement that bound them to the rules of the Republic. What happened is, that as time progressed on the Republic, what they wished to preserve was no longer tenable. They were also Creator given which, to some I am sure, including Jefferson, could have meant nothing more than having been born. Atheism was hardly unknown in the 18th century and Deism/Unitarianism was a way of being so without saying so. It's arguable that the secession of States from the Articles of Confederation wasn't because it was a despotic form of government but because it was more of a wartime provisional system that was too legislature-centralized. A more Perfect Perpetual Union would not be one that's despotically forced to be unfreely amalgamated. That is very well stated and I have to say, again, that I really admire how it is that you write. This is an open question of history: What would have happened had Annapolis failed or had 9 states not ratified? Would the States have continued to operate under the Articles and tried again? Would the US have fractionated in to 13 Republics or Commonwealths? But when we look, again, at history, we know that it took an actual trail. In 1860, there were 33 states that, again, FREELY entered in to the United States. They FREELY agreed to a the form of government that they all knew could either advance some practices or end them. Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 (3/5's of all other persons) ADVANCED the notion that the South would be best served by INCREASING the slave population. Article I, Section 9, Clause 1 (slave trade) was a timebomb/poison pill that slave states KNEW could go off or be activated any time after 1808. And anyone who had anything to do with Founding or Framing the Confederation and then the Republic, KNEW that the question of slavery was going to be an open ended one that would be debated until either made permanent or ended. Every slave state knew this when they FREELY entered into the United States... --Perfecting Obscurity Since 1958...
I would submit that the Declaration is a statement of principles without force of law but a force on the law...
--Perfecting Obscurity Since 1958...
The question isn't whether it was lower in 1856 but whether tariffs (and other gouges) were still punishing. I don't happen to have the figures handy, but it's academic in view of "alter or abolish". We've already busted up the slave angle. You look a bit ridiculous trying to form a moral argument against the Confederacy -- there isn't any. The so-called draft riots were in fact a rebellion against Mr. Lincoln's War that stretched all the way over to Ohio. New Yorkers showed what they thought of abolition (and racial equality) by hanging negroes in the streets of NYC. Yeah, negroes, "Martin Luther" King's word for them. The north and South were two completely different societies from the beginning, notably thanks to the narcissistic, messianic, tyrannical New Englanders. The two "sections" as they were called then were no more meant to be glued together forever than the Beatles were (four wildly different personalities that consistently showed through and often clashed during their decade as a unit). If you think Southern secession was wrong you should be calling for the Virginias to be rejoined. Yankee oppression persists today in the Voting Rights Act and many other ways. Their vicious hate campaign against the South never lets up and only increases. "Martin" said the difference between Birmingham and Boston was that Boston would never change. Yankees are collectively incapable of moderation or reason and the Southern states were still paying them for Mr. Lincoln's war into the 1950s. Yankees are in fact psychotic as a group and the world needs to recognize this fast. Why did the Underground Railroad end in Canada? Because yankees refused to have the slaves they had freshly liberated enter their states. I say yankees meaning the evil kind of northerner, but not all northerners, obviously, since many have always been fine people despite mostly being diversity-delusional. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afr..._Ground_National_Monument
It's not moral to enslave human beings. Period. --Perfecting Obscurity Since 1958...
It's not moral to enslave human beings. Period. I meant a special case, obviously. You lose!
Moral, or not, slavery has been part and parcel of the human condition since our existence began; it continues around the world today in one form or another. It's particularly pernicious here with all the welfare slavery going on. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Period. So you are saying I am hereby absolved of any tax assessment which will be used to fund TANF/SECT-8/etc? You see, I feel that paying lazy morons to sit on their asses while I work for a living upsets the fundamental fairness of the social contract. corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus
I'm unclear as to what exactly is the "contract" between the makers and the takers. Hep me out, please. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Haven't you ever heard of Newt Gingrich's Contract On America?
Therein lies the problem, it is ever changing, depending on the political will and whims of a parasitic ruling elite. corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus
I don't know what that is supposed to mean. As I stated, the *tariff* meme was BS...the South had effectively thwarted keeping slavery out of new territories...it had prevailed in Dred Scot...prior to Lincoln, it had 4 years of the second dumbest man to ever hold the office of POTUS (he was number one until 2001)... The fact is, there was no moral reason for the Southern States to attempt to secede... --Perfecting Obscurity Since 1958...
Taxation isn't slavery... --Perfecting Obscurity Since 1958...
You do know what it's supposed to mean -- your attempt to pin special slavery guilt on the South is up in smoke, because the north was equally guilty or much more so. And since you're playing such a silly game over it, still pretending not to get it, I see no point in taking these subjects further with you. If you're getting paid by the post or word, me so solly......
Consent to be governed is not acquiescence to tribute, you creepy little man. corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus
Ha -- you got that right! Try to get through if you like, but casuistry cannibalizes ratiocination.
That is exactly what it IS...more so when the final decision is made by and among ourselves. You don't want to be taxed...fine...make a better argument as to why you shouldn't be... --Perfecting Obscurity Since 1958...
Sorry...but I really do not. attempt to pin special slavery guilt on the South is up in smoke I don't need to attempt to do it...history has already done so... So the csA becomes the CSA...read their proposed constitution...take all of their supposed gripes that the *industrialized* North allegedly did to them (even though the nation was overwhelmingly agrarian at the time including the North) out of the equation when does slavery end? The fact is, the csA constitution made slavery permanent. --Perfecting Obscurity Since 1958...
The union made slavery permenate too. Double check your thriteenth amendment , their shall be no slavery EXCEPT as a term of punishment. We dont have the largest prison population in the world for nothing. And when the governmnet feels entitled to tax your home or how many miles you drive , well thats another form of slavery too ... ______________________________________ Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) If you don't control your mind someone else will.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html Your posted archives.gov reference, activated: Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text From the listed signers after Article VII: The Founding Fathers: South Carolina You: Rather odd, isn't it? Can you think of anything else "signed" that way? My posted Wikipedia references: List of signers of the United States Constitution - Wikipedia [Rhode Island sent no delegates.] Pic: Part of page four of the Constitution, showing the signatures of the delegates [after Article VII] Some excerpts for both Pinckney signatories from Charleston, SC, linked above at #s 16 & 17: 16 Charles Cotesworth Pinckney (February 25, 1746 – August 16, 1825) 17 Charles Pinckney (October 26, 1757 – October 29, 1824) "American Civil War" - Wikipedia Juneteenth - Wikipedia Clementa C. Pinckney - Wikipedia Clementa Carlos "Clem" Pinckney (July 30, 1973 – June 17, 2015) Pinckney was a member of Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity. He graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree from Allen University in 1995 and went on to obtain a Master of Public Administration degree from the University of South Carolina in 1999. He then obtained a Master of Divinity degree from Lutheran Theological Southern Seminary. Pinckney was a student at Wesley Theological Seminary pursuing a Doctor of Ministry degree. ... Pinckney preached in Beaufort, Charleston, and Columbia. ... He became pastor of Emanuel A.M.E. Church in Charleston, South Carolina in 2010. ... Pinckney spent the earlier part of his last day, June 17, 2015, campaigning with Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton in Charleston. That evening, he led a Bible study and prayer session at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, where he was senior pastor. A 21-year-old shooter, suspected to be Dylann Roof, opened fire on the congregation, killing Pinckney and eight others. On June 24, 2015, there was a public viewing ... in the rotunda lobby of the State Capitol Senate Chamber where Pinckney served in the South Carolina legislature ... Public viewings were held at St. John AME Church in Ridgeland, South Carolina, and Mother Emanuel in Charleston, South Carolina. A funeral was held on June 26, 2015, at the College of Charleston in TD Arena, which was filled up to maximum capacity, necessitating a viewing center with a video feed at the Charleston Museum. President Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, Vice President Joe Biden, and Jill Biden, among many other politicians and public figures, attended the funeral, with Obama giving the eulogy. During the eulogy, Obama sang the opening line of "Amazing Grace". As a result of the shooting, in July 2015, the South Carolina Legislature put forth a bill to take down a Confederate flag that had been flown in front of the statehouse by state law since 2000 and move it to the Confederate Relic Room and Military Museum. Pinckney's widow attended the session during the final vote to thank her husband's colleagues for their support. The bill was passed Reference: #51. Obama, Barack (June 26, 2015). "Remarks by the President in Eulogy for The Honorable Reverend Clementa Pinckney" (PDF). The Post and Courier. Retrieved June 26, 2015. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
========================================== Mileage taxation was JUST PASSED in Oregon two weeks ago. U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
At Post #5 of 4um Title: The Terrible Truth About Abraham Lincoln and the Confederate War From the Comment section at AL.com [Alabama] July 02, 2015: A close-up look at Birmingham's embattled Confederate monument March 1861 “No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of such state.” If the war was over slavery, all the South had to do was to ratify the original 13th Amendment, the Corwin Amendment, and slavery would have forever been protected by the Constitution. Why did the South NOT accept this amendment? Because it was about tariffs, not slavery. Attempts to Amend the Federal Amendment Clause Only one attempt to amend Article V was among the select group of six proposed amendments that was actually passed by Congress and defeated by the states. It is the so-called Corwin amendment. Without its preamble it read: Congress adopted this proposal on March 2, 1861. ... It proposes to protect slave states from congressional interference. But it can rightly be considered an amendment to Article V because, if ratified, it would significantly and expressly have curtailed the federal amending power. ... [T]he Corwin amendment did not (explicitly) bar its own repeal. [Lester Bernhardt] Orfield counts 14 proposed amendments that would somehow have precluded the abolition of slavery. Only the Corwin amendment passed Congress. ... [T]he Corwin amendment had only been validly ratified by two states (Ohio, Maryland). Illinois attempted to ratify it, but probably did so defectively by voting to ratify it in a state constitutional convention that happened to be in session in 1861. Incidentally, the Corwin amendment and the Thirteenth Amendment were the only proposed amendments ever signed by the President. ... James Buchanan signed the Corwin amendment two days before leaving office for Abraham Lincoln ... Lincoln signed the Thirteenth Amendment abolishing slavery, but thinking he erred he notified Congress. The Senate declared the signature unnecessary and not to be a precedent. ... When the Twelfth Amendment was still in Congress, a Senate resolution to submit it to the President (Jefferson) was defeated. Before and after the Corwin amendment Congress realized that the President need not sign, and cannot veto, a constitutional amendment. Lincoln’s Pro-Slavery Record – LewRockwell.com article: The Lincoln Cult's Latest Cover-Up posted at 4um Title: THE LIES OF THE ABRAHAM LINCOLN CULT EXPOSED - HE PUSHED FOR SLAVERY TO BE PERMANENT FIXTURE OF U.S. CONSTITUTION; Excerpts: Actually, the letter is not at all "amazing" to anyone familiar with the real Lincoln. It was a copy of a letter that was sent to the governor of every state urging them all to support the amendment, which had already passed the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives, that would have made southern slavery constitutionally "irrevocable," to use the word that Lincoln used in his first inaugural address. The amendment passed after the lower South had seceded, suggesting that it was passed with almost exclusively Northern votes. Lincoln and the entire North were perfectly willing to enshrine slavery forever in the Constitution. This is one reason why the great Massachusetts libertarian abolitionist Lysander Spooner ... hated and despised Lincoln and his entire gang The Lincoln cult knows about all of this, but works diligently to keep it out of view of the general public. The fact that news organizations reported the "find," however, creates a problem for the cult. ... Every once in a while, though, a cult member (or an aspiring cult member) slips up and spills the beans. A recent example is the "political biography" of Lincoln recently published [by] Doris Kearns-Goodwin entitled "Team of Rivals". This is Goodwin’s first publication on Lincoln, and she has apparently not been filled in on the standard modus operandi of cover-up and obfuscation that is the hallmark of "Lincoln scholarship." She discusses the above-mentioned "first thirteenth amendment" in some detail (as I do in my forthcoming book, Lincoln Unmasked: What You’re Not Supposed to Know About Dishonest Abe, to be published in October). Goodwin dug into the same original sources that all Lincoln scholars are familiar with, but unlike most [Pro-Lincoln] others, she includes the information in her book. Not only did Lincoln support this slavery forever amendment, but the amendment was his idea from the very beginning. He was the secret author of it, orchestrating the politics of its passage from Springfield before he was even inaugurated. Not only that, but he also instructed his political compatriot, William Seward, to work on federal legislation that would outlaw the various personal liberty laws that existed in some of the Northern states. These laws were used to attempt to nullify the federal Fugitive Slave Act. As explained by Goodwin (p. 296): "He [Lincoln] instructed Seward to introduce these proposals in the Senate Committee of Thirteen without indicating they issued from Springfield. The first resolved that 'the Constitution should never be altered so as to authorize Congress to abolish or interfere with slavery in the states.' Another recommendation that he instructed Seward to get through Congress was that 'all state personal liberty laws in opposition to the Fugitive Slave Law be repealed.'" Goodwin reveals all of this because the theme of her book is what a great political conniver and manipulator Lincoln was and this, of course, is a good example of such deceitfulness. ... She praises him for his pro-slavery amendment because it supposedly "held the Republican Party together." In his first inaugural address Dishonest Abe explicitly supported this amendment while pretending that he hardly knew anything about it (i.e., lying). What he said was: "I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution . . . has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the states, including that of persons held to service." Then, while "holding such a provision to be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable." Lincoln was not an abolitionist and, unlike Lysander Spooner, he believed that slavery was already constitutional. Nevertheless, he also favored making it "express and irrevocable." The director of the museum in Allentown where Lincoln’s letter to the governors was recently discovered made a feeble attempt to dismiss this entire episode as unimportant by saying that Lincoln was only being "pragmatic." Actually, exactly the opposite is true. Another reason why abolitionists like Spooner detested Lincoln, Seward, and the rest is that he understood that their opposition to slavery was always theoretical or rhetorical. They never came up with any kind of pragmatic plan to end slavery peacefully, as the real pragmatists — the British, Spanish, Dutch, French, and Danes — had done. Indeed, the political leaders of these countries could have provided the Lincoln regime with a detailed roadmap regarding how to go about it. But as Lincoln repeatedly said, his agenda was always, first and foremost, to destroy the secession movement, not to interfere with slavery. And as this episode reveals, for once his actions matched his words. Corwin Amendment - Wikipedia The text refers to slavery with terms such as "domestic institutions" and "persons held to labor or service" and avoids using the word "slavery", following the example set at the Constitutional Convention of 1787, which referred to slavery in its draft of the Constitution with comparable descriptions of legal status: "Person held to Service", "the whole Number of free Persons..., three fifths of all other Persons", "The Migration and Importation of such Persons...". Its supporters believed that the Corwin Amendment had a greater chance of success in the legislatures of the Southern states than would have been the case in state ratifying conventions, since state conventions were being conducted throughout the South at which votes to secede from the Union were successful — just as Congress was considering the Corwin Amendment. Out-going President James Buchanan, a Democrat, endorsed the Corwin Amendment by taking the unprecedented step of signing it. His signature on the Congressional joint resolution was unnecessary, as the Supreme Court, in Hollingsworth v. Virginia (1798), ruled that the President has no formal role in the constitutional amendment process. Abraham Lincoln, in his first inaugural address, said of the Corwin Amendment: Just weeks prior to the outbreak of the Civil War, Lincoln sent a letter to each state's governor transmitting the proposed amendment, noting that Buchanan had approved it. External links Signed letter from Abraham Lincoln transmitting the Corwin Amendment to North Carolina Governor John W. Ellis, March 16, 1861 [digital.ncdcr.gov] 4um Title: When Americans Understood the Declaration of Independence From Post #s 30 and 44 of 4um Title: Judge Napolitano: Lincoln Set About On The Most Murderous War In American History At the time of the "Civil War", America was still a new nation struggling to become strong enough to free itself from the business of slavery that other nations had entrenched here. Even so, [hundreds of thousands of] lives could [likely] have been spared by a Compensated Emancipation transition for less than it cost financially to wage that war [if Slavery had been the cause rather than tariffs and representative government issues but it wasn't. See also: 4um Ref., Post #s 9-12.] The Federal government officially endorsed Slavery in the Constitution (North, South and also in the Western Territories) and supported it by the Fugitive Slave Clause, etc.]. Appending an additional 4um Ref. with further relevant info and discussion issues. Also, 4um Title: DIXIE'S CENSORED SUBJECT: BLACK SLAVEOWNERS, with additional historic info on Slavery in America at Post #s 2 and 3. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
What a nice song -- too bad he and the Blowfish are so anti-Southern.
HAPPY2BME-4UM at Post #70: Mileage taxation was JUST PASSED in Oregon two weeks ago. Eleventh Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State. The Eleventh Amendment was the first Constitutional amendment adopted after the Bill of Rights. The United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit has ruled that Puerto Rico enjoys Eleventh Amendment immunity. [My note: Here in America, the "unilateral despots" of the U.S. Supreme Court have long been abrogating, nullifying and eradicating the 11th Amendment.] USA TODAY June 30, 2015: [United States] Supreme Court to decide new war between the states [Issues of taxation and evasion rewarded by Nevada's judicial 11th Amendment Nullification] The [U.S.] Supreme Court agreed Tuesday to reconsider its 35-year-old precedent allowing one state to use its court system to sue another state without consent — or even the same immunity the first state grants its own agencies. California filed the high court appeal following a Nevada jury's award of $375 million to a former California resident who contested his 1991 tax assessment there. The Nevada Supreme Court later reduced the award to $1 million. "A Nevada jury with an opportunity to award damages to a Nevada citizen at the expense of a California governmental entity did so to the tune of half a billion dollars," the California Franchise Tax Board asserted in its Supreme Court petition. "Sovereign immunity does not allow a sovereign state to be placed at the mercy of foreign juries and judges absent consent." That's not what the [U.S.] Supreme Court said in Nevada v. Hall, a 1979 case that held states are not immune from lawsuits in other states' courts. The original lawsuit, filed by Gilbert Hyatt, a technology inventor, alleged that the California auditor pursuing him had divulged his personal data, trespassed on his Nevada property and vowed to "get that Jew [epithet]" — ample reasons to sue in Nevada courts. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
================================================== Are you trying to confuse war with facts? What If You Had ABSOLUTELY NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS? U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
No, your judgeness. I was trying to defuse "Civil War" malingerings with facts. P.S. Great video. : ) ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
As was point6d out, the tariffs were actually lower in 1860/61 than they had been over the previous decades. Then you have this: Georgia Statement of Secession: "For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery." avalon.law.yale.ed u/19th_century/csa_geosec.asp The word *tariff* appears nowhere in the statement. Why is that? --Perfecting Obscurity Since 1958...
Mississippi: "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth." avalon.law.yale.ed u/19th_century/csa_missec.asp Again, no mention of tariffs... --Perfecting Obscurity Since 1958...
And when the governmnet feels entitled to tax your home or how many miles you drive , well thats another form of slavery too ... Windows were taxed when this nation was founded...so were bachelors... --Perfecting Obscurity Since 1958...
........., you're just trolling aren't you you.... ______________________________________ Suspect all media / resist bad propaganda/Learn NLP everyday everyway ;) If you don't control your mind someone else will.
Facts are facts...
--Perfecting Obscurity Since 1958...
As was point6d out, the tariffs were actually lower in 1860/61 than they had been over the previous decades. Morrill Tariff - Wikipedia The Morrill Tariff raised rates to encourage industry and to foster high wages for industrial workers. [i.e. Northerners, predominantly -- effectively jeopardizing Southern trade with Europe] The Morrill Tariff was met with intense hostility in Britain, where the free trade movement dominated public opinion. The Morrill tariff was adopted against the backdrop of the secession movement, and provided an issue for [secession] in some southern states. The law's critics compared it to the 1828 Tariff of Abominations that sparked the [tariff] Nullification Crisis, although its average rate was significantly lower [compared to: 1825 and 1830, when rates had sometimes been over 50%] ... the average rate for 1857 through 1860 being around 17% overall (ad valorem), or 21% on dutiable items only. The Morrill Tariff immediately raised these averages to about 26% overall or 36% on dutiable items, and further increases by 1865 left the comparable rates at 38% and 48%. In its first year of operation, the Morrill Tariff increased the effective rate collected on dutiable imports by approximately 70%. The [financial] Panic of 1857 [had] led to calls for protectionist tariff revision. Well-known economist Henry C. Carey blamed the Panic on the Tariff of 1857. His opinion was widely circulated in the high tariff (or "protectionist") media. Efforts to revise the tariff schedules upward began in earnest in the 35th Congress of 1857–1859. The Morrill bill was passed out of committee and brought up for a floor vote near the end of first session of the Congress (December 1859 – June 1860). The vote was on May 10, 1860; the bill passed by a vote of 105 to 64. the Morrill Tariff was addressed in the [secession] conventions of Georgia and South Carolina. ... [Before it could be made official and imposed,] many tariff-averse Southerners had resigned from Congress after their states declared their secession. The Morrill bill was brought to the Senate floor for a vote on February 20, [1861] and passed 25 to 14. President James Buchanan ... signed the bill into law as one of his last acts in office. It replaced the low Tariff of 1857, which was written to benefit the South. ... As secession became more evident and the fledgling Confederacy adopted a much lower tariff of its own, the [New York Times] urged military action to enforce the Morrill Tariff in the Southern states. ... Two additional tariffs sponsored by Morrill, each one higher, were passed during Abraham Lincoln's administration to raise urgently needed revenue during the Civil War. ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAs I understand it, the Declaration is considered higher law than the Constitution. Doesn't the "alter or abolish" clause answer this whole thing? Original intent shows freedom, not statism, was the default position in the minds of the founders. The whole weight of the past millennium of history is on that side, going back to "Þorgnýr the Lawspeaker"
the right of revolution is the right or duty, previously stated throughout history, of the people of a nation to overthrow a government that acts against their common interests.
"The role of the Declaration of Independence in American law is often misconstrued. Some believe the Declaration is simply a statement of ideas that has no legal force whatsoever today. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Declaration has been repeatedly cited by the U.S. Supreme Court as part of the fundamental law of the United States of America.
#42. To: GreyLmist (#41)
#43. To: NeoconsNailed, greylmist (#40)
(Edited)
As I understand it, the Declaration is considered higher law than the Constitution. Doesn't the "alter or abolish" clause answer this whole thing?
#44. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#43)
#45. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#43)
#46. To: NeoconsNailed (#42)
(Edited)
Riches, Grey!
#47. To: GreyLmist (#46)
#48. To: NeoconsNailed (#45)
the Constitution was only witnessed, not signed.
Signatories: 39 of the 55 delegates
#49. To: GreyLmist (#48)
(Edited)
#50. To: NeoconsNailed (#49)
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
List of signers of the United States Constitution - Wikipedia
#51. To: GreyLmist (#36)
The 9th and 10th Amendments encompass all rights reserved to the States and the people, including: "it is their right, it is their duty" to throw off Despotic Government and to provide new Guards for their future security.
#52. To: NeoconsNailed (#40)
#53. To: war (#51)
And keep your eye on the ball here, the tariff argument doesn't fly because, as of 1856, they were actually lower and narrower than what was passed in the 1820's...so...if your future *security* is dependent upon the power of a state government to forcibly enslave human beings then I submit that is hardly a *security* worth saving and perpetuating...
#54. To: NeoconsNailed (#53)
You look a bit ridiculous trying to form a moral argument against the Confederacy -- there isn't any.
#55. To: war (#54)
You look a bit ridiculous trying to form a moral argument against the Confederacy -- there isn't any.
#56. To: war, 4 (#54)
#57. To: war (#54)
It's not moral to enslave human beings.
#58. To: Dakmar (#57)
#59. To: Lod (#58)
#60. To: Lod (#58)
I'm unclear as to what exactly is the "contract" between the makers and the takers.
#61. To: NeoconsNailed (#55)
I meant a special case, obviously. You lose!
#62. To: Dakmar (#57)
So you are saying I am hereby absolved of any tax assessment which will be used to fund TANF/SECT-8/etc?
#63. To: war (#61)
(Edited)
#64. To: war (#62)
Taxation isn't slavery...
#65. To: Dakmar (#64)
#66. To: Dakmar (#64)
Consent to be governed is not acquiescence to tribute, you creepy little man.
#67. To: NeoconsNailed (#63)
You do know what it's supposed to mean...
#68. To: war (#67)
The fact is, the csA constitution made slavery permanent.
#69. To: NeoconsNailed, All (#50)
Your posted reference:
America's Founding Fathers - Delegates to the Constitutional Convention
J. Rutledge
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney [info at that site]
Charles Pinckney [info at that site]
Pierce ButlerSouth Carolina [names written near lower left corner of the Pic]
15 John Rutledge
16 Charles Cotesworth Pinckney
17 Charles Pinckney
18 Pierce Butler
represented South Carolina at the Constitutional Convention of 1787. ... advocated that African American slaves be counted as a basis of representation. ... played a key role in requiring treaties to be ratified by the Senate and in the compromise that resulted in the abolition of the Atlantic slave trade. ... [Reference notation] "The Third Amendment and the Issue of the Maintenance of Standing Armies: A Legal History," American Journal of Legal History (1991), volume 35, p. 393: Elbridge Gerry...proposed that the Constitution contain express language limiting the size of the standing army to several thousand men. Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, ostensibly at the instigation of Washington, responded that such a proposal was satisfactory so long as any invading force also agreed to limit its army to a similar size. ... In 1789, President George Washington offered ["C. C."] Pinckney his choice of the State Department or the War Department; [He] declined both. When Washington offered [him] the role of Ambassador to France in 1796, Pinckney accepted. ... Castle Pinckney in Charleston Harbor, completed about 1810, and an earlier fort on the same site, were named for Charles C. Pinckney.
an American politician who was a signer of the United States Constitution ... was first cousin once removed of fellow signer Charles Cotesworth ["C. C."] Pinckney. ... was an ancestor of seven future South Carolina governors. ... well after the War for Independence had begun, young Pinckney enlisted in the militia (though his father demonstrated ambivalence about the Revolution). ... When Charleston fell to the British the next year, [he] was captured and held as a prisoner until June 1781. ... Pinckney's role in the Constitutional Convention is controversial. ... South Carolina had established Protestantism as the state religion, so it was interesting that he introduced a clause into the Constitution article VI in opposition to an established state religion. His "no religious test" clause [...] passed with little opposition and so for the first time in history an official of a national government was not required to have a religion. ... Jefferson appointed Pinckney as Minister to Spain (1801–05). He tried but did not succeed in gaining cession by Spain of the Floridas to the United States. He facilitated Spanish acquiescence in the transfer of Louisiana from France to the United States in 1803 by the Louisiana Purchase.
April 12, 1861 – May 9, 1865
a holiday that commemorates the announcement of the abolition of slavery in Texas in June 1865, and more generally the emancipation of African-American slaves throughout the Confederate South. Celebrated on June 19 ... On June 18, 1865, Union General Gordon Granger arrived at Galveston Island with 2,000 federal troops to occupy Texas on behalf of the federal government. On June 19, standing on the balcony of Galveston's Ashton Villa, Granger read aloud the contents of "General Order No. 3", announcing the total emancipation of slaves
a Democratic member of the South Carolina Senate, representing the 45th District from 2000 until his death. As a state senator, Pinckney pushed for laws to require police and other law enforcement officials to wear body cameras after Walter Scott, an unarmed black man, was shot eight times in the back by a police officer in North Charleston. ... He was previously a member of the South Carolina House of Representatives from 1997 through 2000. Pinckney was a senior pastor at Mother Emanuel A.M.E. in Charleston. On June 17, 2015, Pinckney was assassinated in a mass shooting at an evening Bible study at his church. U.S. President Barack Obama delivered the eulogy at Pinckney's memorial in his honor. ... Pinckney's name is in honor of the baseball player Roberto Clemente of the Pittsburgh Pirates ... During his eulogy, multiple friends and family pronounced his first name as "Clemen-tay". ... Pinckney's father's family, the Pinckney family based in the Beaufort, South Carolina area, could possibly be descendants of slaves owned by Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, who was instrumental in framing the United States Constitution.
#70. To: titorite (#68)
And when the governmnet feels entitled to tax your home or how many miles you drive ..
#71. To: All (#50)
(Edited)
info on the Corwin Amendment
THE CORWIN AMENDMENT
B. An historical proposal passed by Congress [The Corwin Amendment]
No Amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any state, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.
On July 19 the Associated Press and Reuter’s reported an "amazing find" at a museum in Allentown, Pennsylvania: A copy of a letter dated March 16, 1861, and signed by Abraham Lincoln imploring the governor of Florida to rally political support for a constitutional amendment that would have legally enshrined slavery in the U.S. Constitution. ... The document was found in the Lehigh County, Pennsylvania, Historical Society archives in Allentown, Pennsylvania.
a proposed amendment to the United States Constitution passed by the 36th Congress on March 2, 1861 and submitted to the state legislatures for ratification. Senator William H. Seward of New York introduced the amendment in the Senate and Representative Thomas Corwin of Ohio introduced it in the House of Representatives. It was one of several measures considered by Congress in an ultimately unsuccessful attempt to attract the seceding states back into the Union and to entice border slave states to stay. Technically still pending before the states, it would, if ratified, shield "domestic institutions" of the states (which in 1861 included slavery) from the constitutional amendment process and from abolition or interference by Congress.
I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution — which amendment, however, I have not seen — has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service....holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.
In his first inaugural address Lincoln strongly supported the Fugitive Slave Act and the proposed "Corwin Amendment" to the Constitution, which had already passed the House and Senate, which would have prohibited the federal government from ever interfering with Southern slavery. Thus, it was his position that slavery should be explicitly enshrined in the Constitution, made "express and irrevocable" to use his exact words, which is hardly the position one who believes that "all men are created equal" would take. It was empty political rhetoric at its worst.
slaveholding border States of the Union were Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri. New Jersey and New Hampshire were two more slaveholding Union States ... fully 1/3 of the Union being slave States [+ Territories and D.C. itself] ... Lincoln's "Emancipation Proclamation" freed none of them from slavery. It was a year into the war before slavery in the Union's own capitol-city of Washington D.C. was monetarily facilitated towards being ended there by the District of Columbia Compensated Emancipation Act [Wikipedia]. Even with that, the fugitive slave laws still applied and D.C. was reportedly among slaveholders after the war until slavery was officially abolished by the Thirteenth Amendment. [Ref. Slavery in the United States: The end of slavery - Wikipedia] ... [S]lavery was not completely lifted in New Hampshire and New Jersey until the nationwide emancipation in 1865. ... [S]lavery in America [had to be abolished] again after we acquired Alaska from Russia [4um Ref.]
#72. To: christine (#16)
#73. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#70)
(Edited)
titorite at Post #68: The union made slavery permenate too. Double check your thriteenth amendment , their shall be no slavery EXCEPT as a term of punishment. We dont have the largest prison population in the world for nothing. And when the governmnet feels entitled to tax your home or how many miles you drive , well thats another form of slavery too ...
passed by Congress on March 4, 1794, and ratified by the states on February 7, 1795, deals with each state's sovereign immunity
Text
WASHINGTON — Call it the new War Between the States.
#74. To: GreyLmist (#71)
From Post #s 30 and 44 of 4um Title: Judge Napolitano: Lincoln Set About On The Most Murderous War In American History
#75. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#74)
Are you trying to confuse war with facts?
#76. To: GreyLmist (#71)
Because it was about tariffs, not slavery.
#77. To: GreyLmist (#71)
#78. To: titorite (#68)
#79. To: war (#78)
Windows were taxed when this nation was founded...so were bachelors...
#80. To: titorite (#79)
#81. To: war (#76)
(Edited)
it was about tariffs, not slavery.
The Morrill Tariff of 1861 was an increased tariff in the United States, adopted on March 2, 1861, during the administration of President James Buchanan, a Democrat. It was a key element of the platform of the new Republican Party [of Lincoln], and it appealed to industrialists and factory workers [i.e. Northerners, predominantly]
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