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Title: FREE SPEECH HATERS PISSING THEIR PANTS - FLORIDA - Thousands ride in support of Confederate flag at Marion County complex
Source:
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URL Source: http://www.ocala.com/article/20150712/ARTICLES/150719928?tc=cr
Published: Jul 12, 2015
Author: By Kristine Crane
Post Date: 2015-07-12 23:36:41 by HAPPY2BME-4UM
Keywords: CONFEDERATE, CONFEDERATE FLAG, FIRST AMENDMENT, FREE SPEECH
Views: 1602
Comments: 102
An estimated 2,000 vehicles, mostly motorcycles and trucks adorned with Rebel flags, took part in a rally and ride Sunday afternoon in support of keeping a Confederate flag flying in front of the McPherson Governmental Complex in Ocala. The event was organized by David Stone, of Ocala, and was called the Florida Southern Pride Ride. Police officials estimated participation at a couple thousand vehicles. The ride started about 1 p.m., and by 1:30 p.m. could be seen winding its way through Ocala. Participants were wearing shirts that said “heritage not hate” and talked of defending a way of life rooted in Southern traditions. Danny Hart, of Dunnellon, had two Confederate flags and the American flag in the back of his truck. He pointed out that the U.S. flag was flying higher and said that he had come to participate in the ride to “defend freedom.” Another ride participant, Rick Hart, said, “It's a history thing. The flag is also a military flag. It's not a race symbol.” Phil Walters, a member of the Confederate Sons of America, felt compelled to attend to defend history against what he calls “intellectual dishonesty.” Walters said the NAACP's 1991 resolution “abhorring the Confederate Battle Flag” has set the tone for conflict and hatred. “According to the U.S. Congress, Confederate veterans are war veterans,” said Walters, whose branch of the Sons is named for Judah P. Benjamin, the Jewish secretary of state under Confederate President Jefferson Davis. “The South was fighting for states' rights, and the Northern slaves were freed after Southern slaves. Slavery is a guilt across the human race.” A replica of the General Lee from the 1979-85 “The Dukes of Hazard” TV show led the way during the ride, followed by motorcycles and then pickup trucks. The ride was expected to be 17 miles total and loop back to parking lots north of the city on North U.S. 441. Ocala Police Department Sgt. Erica Hay said the ride was rerouted away from the Northwoods neighborhood after some residents threatened to shoot into the procession. The ride was organized to support the Marion County Commission's decision Tuesday to return the Confederate flag to a historical display in front of the McPherson Governmental Complex. The flag had been removed after a massacre at an African-American church in Charleston. The suspected shooter is a white supremacist who was photographed with Confederate flags. Two small protests were held last week at the county complex in opposition to the Confederate flag — which many see as a symbol of racial hatred. On Sunday, a few black people participated in the ride. One of them, Renee Gore, 34, of Dunnellon, said that to her the flag means “heritage, love and family.” Another black person, Dwayne Webb, 23, of Ocala, said he came specifically “to show people (the flag) is not about prejudice and hate.” For Webb, the flag represents “good living, respect, and honesty,” things that he associates with the South. Webb participated in the ride with his friends, also in their twenties. “I got goose-bumps (during the ride),” said Mike Ponticelli, 29, also of Ocala. They were hanging out in a parking lot with several of the other participants after the ride's conclusion. “We were standing up for what we believe in: manners and common courtesy towards all people, no matter who you are,” Ponticelli said. “It's a positive movement,” Webb added. A handful of people who view the flag as a sign of disrespect also showed up at the ride, holding signs that explained why they are against the flag flying in front of a governmental building. Laila Abdelaziz, 23, who came to the rally from Tampa, held a sign with a quote from one of the flag's defenders in the 1860s, whose defense of the symbol was rooted in white supremacy. “What if your heritage is rooted in hate?” Abdelaziz said. “You have to confront that.” Abdelaziz, who was born in Palestine and came to the U.S. with her parents as a child, said she is very familiar with dynamics of hatred. “I know what hatred does to people,” she said. “America has to confront the fact that someone younger than me killed people out of hatred.” Abdelaziz said she also came to protest the ride to speak for another part of Ocala, where her parents live and she also lived for some time. “This (ride) does not represent all of Ocala,” Abdelaziz said. In the aftermath of the Charleston killings, too much emphasis has been placed on the flag, she added. “Dylann Roof held the flag in one hand, and a gun in the other. We've heard more about the flag than the gun control problem in America.” On Sunday evening, Awake Marion, in conjunction with the NAACP, held a meeting at the Second Bethlehem Baptist Theological Seminary in Ocala. About 75 people attended the meeting, where they discussed how to express their disagreement with the County Commission's decision to raise the Confederate flag. Draft copies of a letter to the Board of County Commissioners were handed out. The organizers also announced that a peaceful sit-in to protest the flag will take place Wednesday at 9 a.m. at the south end of the McPherson Governmental Complex. The sit-in is being sponsored by Brown Memorial Funeral Home. 
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#9. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#0)
There was no confederacy...there was mass treason that was quelled.
--Perfecting Obscurity Since 1958... ========================================================== war, are you aware that Abraham Lincoln attempted to ratify the 13th Amendment for the purpose of legalizing the ownership of human being as property (slavery)? He was unsuccessful. Pound sand.
Prior to the war, Lincoln was a supporter of the Corwin amendment as it was consistent with his belief that slave states should maintain self- determination. Lincoln was wholly opposed to the expansion of slavery in to new territories. This was rendered moot when the South committed treason.
Is the Union perpetual through the rest of time regardless of what percentage of the people still want it?
The Union has a mechanism for dissolution...the constitutional amendment...
I can see it now -- "The Amendment to let the Southern states leave the Union has been passed. Mr. Lincoln is not expected to veto."
No Amendment was necessary to dissolve State bonds with the Union. Reference the Declaration of Independence. No Amendment was needed either to dissolve America's original government entirely, the establishment of which was called the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union. Replacement of the Articles of Confederation with the U.S. Constitution by less than 100% ratification of the States was itself seen as an act of secession by some of those States of the Articles compact and also by some of our founders like John Jay, who became our first U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice.
Where is that referenced in the United States Constitution? Replacement of the Articles of Confederation with the U.S. Constitution by less than 100% ratification of the States was itself seen as an act of secession by some of those States of the Articles compact and also by some of our founders like John Jay, who became our first U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice. That's an obvious statement of history...the states which negotiated the USCON agreed that only 9 were needed for the Union... "The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same..."
Where is that referenced in the United States Constitution? The 9th and 10th Amendments. The secessionist States agreed in violation of the Articles of Confederation: On the other hand, Article VII of the proposed Constitution stated that it would become effective after ratification by a mere nine states, without unanimity
I've read them several times and never was the Declaration of Independence referenced. And the Declaration was a culmination of a meeting of the WHOLE of The People...not one delegation. There is a difference between a Confederation and a Republic. As is mentioned in the A/I the Union was to be perpetual. The Preamble of the USCON clearly states that the Union was to be *more* Perfect. I can't see any track of logic that leads me to believe that a Perpetual Union, made more perfect, was one that could be negated by one member.
I've read them several times and never was the Declaration of Independence referenced. And the Declaration was a culmination of a meeting of the WHOLE of The People...not one delegation. The 9th and 10th Amendments encompass all rights reserved to the States and the people, including: "it is their right, it is their duty" to throw off Despotic Government and to provide new Guards for their future security. The Declaration was a culmination of Patriots who understood their God-given natural right to secede from despotic government without the permission of it. Loyalists to the Crown weren't of that view, so their consultations were soon no longer considered as admissable. It's arguable that the secession of States from the Articles of Confederation wasn't because it was a despotic form of government but because it was more of a wartime provisional system that was too legislature-centralized. A more Perfect Perpetual Union would not be one that's despotically forced to be unfreely amalgamated.
As I understand it, the Declaration is considered higher law than the Constitution. Doesn't the "alter or abolish" clause answer this whole thing? Original intent shows freedom, not statism, was the default position in the minds of the founders. The whole weight of the past millennium of history is on that side, going back to "Þorgnýr the Lawspeaker" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_revolution
============================================= The Constitution is 'higher,' including all of the amendments thereto which are still in effect. That would include the Bill of Rights which is not a separate document but part of that Constitution. The reason for the importance of the Constitution can be found in the preamble where it states that the document was created to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and to our posterity. The Declaration of Independence was more influential since it was the first instance where a people asserted that they were in charge, not some king. The bill of rights is important BUT it is part and parcel of the constitution AND as recently noted in the Heller decision, the Bill of Rights does NOT give any rights, it gives limitations on government for certain rights which we belive all people to HAVE by virtue of being living human beings. The constitution was not ratified until the Bill of Rights was added and would not exist without it BUT our rights WOULD! The Declaration of independence has no legal power or authority.
But the Constitution was only witnessed, not signed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Treason In any case, we've closed the case. This is supposed to be a free country, and every indicator says that any union is based on voluntary association -- the individual model applied to the corporate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Treason ??? United States Constitution - Wikipedia 74 delegates were named, 55 attended and 39 signed. Its final version was taken up on Monday, September 17, at the Convention's final session. Several of the delegates were disappointed in the result, a makeshift series of unfortunate compromises. Some delegates left before the ceremony, and three others refused to sign. Of the thirty-nine signers, Benjamin Franklin summed up, addressing the Convention: "There are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them." He would accept the Constitution, "because I expect no better and because I am not sure that it is not the best."
"In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names" http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html Rather odd, isn't it? Can you think of anything else "signed" that way? Sly dogs!
Rather odd, isn't it? Can you think of anything else "signed" that way? Sly dogs! Pic: Part of page four of the Constitution, showing the signatures of the delegates That's all I have time to research and post about that for today. When I can resume, it will most likely be after I've archived some info on the Corwin Amendment.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html Your posted archives.gov reference, activated: Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text From the listed signers after Article VII: The Founding Fathers: South Carolina You: Rather odd, isn't it? Can you think of anything else "signed" that way? My posted Wikipedia references: List of signers of the United States Constitution - Wikipedia [Rhode Island sent no delegates.] Pic: Part of page four of the Constitution, showing the signatures of the delegates [after Article VII] Some excerpts for both Pinckney signatories from Charleston, SC, linked above at #s 16 & 17: 16 Charles Cotesworth Pinckney (February 25, 1746 – August 16, 1825) 17 Charles Pinckney (October 26, 1757 – October 29, 1824) "American Civil War" - Wikipedia Juneteenth - Wikipedia Clementa C. Pinckney - Wikipedia Clementa Carlos "Clem" Pinckney (July 30, 1973 – June 17, 2015) Pinckney was a member of Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity. He graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree from Allen University in 1995 and went on to obtain a Master of Public Administration degree from the University of South Carolina in 1999. He then obtained a Master of Divinity degree from Lutheran Theological Southern Seminary. Pinckney was a student at Wesley Theological Seminary pursuing a Doctor of Ministry degree. ... Pinckney preached in Beaufort, Charleston, and Columbia. ... He became pastor of Emanuel A.M.E. Church in Charleston, South Carolina in 2010. ... Pinckney spent the earlier part of his last day, June 17, 2015, campaigning with Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton in Charleston. That evening, he led a Bible study and prayer session at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, where he was senior pastor. A 21-year-old shooter, suspected to be Dylann Roof, opened fire on the congregation, killing Pinckney and eight others. On June 24, 2015, there was a public viewing ... in the rotunda lobby of the State Capitol Senate Chamber where Pinckney served in the South Carolina legislature ... Public viewings were held at St. John AME Church in Ridgeland, South Carolina, and Mother Emanuel in Charleston, South Carolina. A funeral was held on June 26, 2015, at the College of Charleston in TD Arena, which was filled up to maximum capacity, necessitating a viewing center with a video feed at the Charleston Museum. President Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, Vice President Joe Biden, and Jill Biden, among many other politicians and public figures, attended the funeral, with Obama giving the eulogy. During the eulogy, Obama sang the opening line of "Amazing Grace". As a result of the shooting, in July 2015, the South Carolina Legislature put forth a bill to take down a Confederate flag that had been flown in front of the statehouse by state law since 2000 and move it to the Confederate Relic Room and Military Museum. Pinckney's widow attended the session during the final vote to thank her husband's colleagues for their support. The bill was passed Reference: #51. Obama, Barack (June 26, 2015). "Remarks by the President in Eulogy for The Honorable Reverend Clementa Pinckney" (PDF). The Post and Courier. Retrieved June 26, 2015.
There are no replies to Comment # 69. End Trace Mode for Comment # 69.
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#10. To: jwpegler (#9)
#13. To: war, jwpegler, jethro tull, lod, neoconsnailed, x-15 (#10)
There was no confederacy...there was mass treason that was quelled.
#14. To: war, jwpegler, jethro tull, lod, neoconsnailed, x-15, CHRISTINE (#13)
#17. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#14)
war, are you aware that Abraham Lincoln attempted to ratify the 13th Amendment for the purpose of legalizing the ownership of human being as property (slavery)?
#18. To: war (#17)
#20. To: NeoconsNailed (#18)
Is the Union perpetual through the rest of time regardless of what percentage of the people still want it?
#21. To: war (#20)
#26. To: NeoconsNailed (#21)
(Edited)
I can see it now -- "The Amendment to let the Southern states leave the Union has been passed. Mr. Lincoln is not expected to veto."
#29. To: GreyLmist (#26)
(Edited)
Reference the Declaration of Independence.
#33. To: war (#29)
Reference the Declaration of Independence.
the states which negotiated the USCON agreed that only 9 were needed for the Union...
[T]he Articles of this Confederation shall be inviolably observed by every State, and the Union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a Congress of the United States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State.
#34. To: GreyLmist (#33)
The 9th and 10th Amendments.
#36. To: war (#34)
The 9th and 10th Amendments.
There is a difference between a Confederation and a Republic. As is mentioned in the A/I the Union was to be perpetual. The Preamble of the USCON clearly states that the Union was to be *more* Perfect. I can't see any track of logic that leads me to believe that a Perpetual Union, made more perfect, was one that could be negated by one member.
#40. To: GreyLmist (#36)
#43. To: NeoconsNailed, greylmist (#40)
(Edited)
As I understand it, the Declaration is considered higher law than the Constitution. Doesn't the "alter or abolish" clause answer this whole thing?
#45. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#43)
#48. To: NeoconsNailed (#45)
the Constitution was only witnessed, not signed.
Signatories: 39 of the 55 delegates
#49. To: GreyLmist (#48)
(Edited)
#50. To: NeoconsNailed (#49)
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
List of signers of the United States Constitution - Wikipedia
#69. To: NeoconsNailed, All (#50)
Your posted reference:
America's Founding Fathers - Delegates to the Constitutional Convention
J. Rutledge
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney [info at that site]
Charles Pinckney [info at that site]
Pierce ButlerSouth Carolina [names written near lower left corner of the Pic]
15 John Rutledge
16 Charles Cotesworth Pinckney
17 Charles Pinckney
18 Pierce Butler
represented South Carolina at the Constitutional Convention of 1787. ... advocated that African American slaves be counted as a basis of representation. ... played a key role in requiring treaties to be ratified by the Senate and in the compromise that resulted in the abolition of the Atlantic slave trade. ... [Reference notation] "The Third Amendment and the Issue of the Maintenance of Standing Armies: A Legal History," American Journal of Legal History (1991), volume 35, p. 393: Elbridge Gerry...proposed that the Constitution contain express language limiting the size of the standing army to several thousand men. Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, ostensibly at the instigation of Washington, responded that such a proposal was satisfactory so long as any invading force also agreed to limit its army to a similar size. ... In 1789, President George Washington offered ["C. C."] Pinckney his choice of the State Department or the War Department; [He] declined both. When Washington offered [him] the role of Ambassador to France in 1796, Pinckney accepted. ... Castle Pinckney in Charleston Harbor, completed about 1810, and an earlier fort on the same site, were named for Charles C. Pinckney.
an American politician who was a signer of the United States Constitution ... was first cousin once removed of fellow signer Charles Cotesworth ["C. C."] Pinckney. ... was an ancestor of seven future South Carolina governors. ... well after the War for Independence had begun, young Pinckney enlisted in the militia (though his father demonstrated ambivalence about the Revolution). ... When Charleston fell to the British the next year, [he] was captured and held as a prisoner until June 1781. ... Pinckney's role in the Constitutional Convention is controversial. ... South Carolina had established Protestantism as the state religion, so it was interesting that he introduced a clause into the Constitution article VI in opposition to an established state religion. His "no religious test" clause [...] passed with little opposition and so for the first time in history an official of a national government was not required to have a religion. ... Jefferson appointed Pinckney as Minister to Spain (1801–05). He tried but did not succeed in gaining cession by Spain of the Floridas to the United States. He facilitated Spanish acquiescence in the transfer of Louisiana from France to the United States in 1803 by the Louisiana Purchase.
April 12, 1861 – May 9, 1865
a holiday that commemorates the announcement of the abolition of slavery in Texas in June 1865, and more generally the emancipation of African-American slaves throughout the Confederate South. Celebrated on June 19 ... On June 18, 1865, Union General Gordon Granger arrived at Galveston Island with 2,000 federal troops to occupy Texas on behalf of the federal government. On June 19, standing on the balcony of Galveston's Ashton Villa, Granger read aloud the contents of "General Order No. 3", announcing the total emancipation of slaves
a Democratic member of the South Carolina Senate, representing the 45th District from 2000 until his death. As a state senator, Pinckney pushed for laws to require police and other law enforcement officials to wear body cameras after Walter Scott, an unarmed black man, was shot eight times in the back by a police officer in North Charleston. ... He was previously a member of the South Carolina House of Representatives from 1997 through 2000. Pinckney was a senior pastor at Mother Emanuel A.M.E. in Charleston. On June 17, 2015, Pinckney was assassinated in a mass shooting at an evening Bible study at his church. U.S. President Barack Obama delivered the eulogy at Pinckney's memorial in his honor. ... Pinckney's name is in honor of the baseball player Roberto Clemente of the Pittsburgh Pirates ... During his eulogy, multiple friends and family pronounced his first name as "Clemen-tay". ... Pinckney's father's family, the Pinckney family based in the Beaufort, South Carolina area, could possibly be descendants of slaves owned by Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, who was instrumental in framing the United States Constitution.
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