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Title: (Dallas) Police Deny Excessive Force In Bloody Arrest (black cop, white girl)
Source:
NBC5i.com
URL Source: http://www.nbc5i.com/news/6158812/detail.html
Published: Jan 16, 2006
Author: NBC5
Post Date: 2006-01-16 20:18:09 by BTP Holdings
Keywords: Excessive, (Dallas), Police
Views: 14358
Comments: 855
POSTED: 5:16 pm CST January 16, 2006
DALLAS -- E-mails and pictures circulating the Internet tell the tale of a Dallas woman's bloody run-in with police after a roller-skating outing escalated into an arrest with excessive force, but officers and some witnesses Monday told a different story.
The incident happened early Saturday morning in Deep Ellum after police attempted to speak with Michelle Metzinger, 25, who, according to a police report, was intoxicated and weaving through traffic on roller skates.
Images: The Arrest & Other Slideshows
The pictures that stemmed from the events that followed are dramatic. They show an officer arresting Metzinger. Her face is covered in blood and there is a puddle of blood on the sidewalk.
"Very excessive. Uncalled for, you know. We're talking about a 250-pound guy and a 100-pound girl. It was just over the top," witness "D.C." said. "All I saw were her feet in the air and disappearing behind a cop car."
However, Dallas police and other witnesses tell a totally different story.
They said Metzinger was drunk and that she not only ignored officers who asked her to stop skating in the street, but also shouted profanities.
According to reports, an officer then tried to arrest Metzinger for public intoxication.
She resisted and attacked the officer, Lt. Rick Watson said.
"The officer attempted to turn her around, at which time the suspect then reached up and grabbed the officer's -- right part of his face -- trying to gouge the officer's eye," Watson said.
Despite the interest that the story has generated online and in the media, Metzinger said she would not comment on the incident until she had consulted with a lawyer.
Metzinger also had not filed a complaint report, so Dallas police were not conducting an internal investigation.
When I worked concert security and someone got bloodied, it was always proper for us to "get our stories straight." Or, as Eddie Murphy said in that movie, "You were lying your asses off." That LT is a lying piece of shit and so is the black cop who LIED in his report.
I'll tell you one thing for certain, this bastard needs to be caught and given a damn hard ball-batting. And then a WHITE magic marker taken to his forehead and the words BAD COP inscribed thereon. What was done was brutal, inexcusable and unjustified.
Police Deny Excessive Force In Bloody Arrest
Dramatic Pictures, Rumors Circulate Online
UPDATED: 6:11 pm CST January 16, 2006
Poster Comment:
Pictures taken by a witness clearly show the cops are LIARS!
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#221. To: Richard, Hmmmmm (#218)
Not prejudiced? Balderdash! #110. To: Richard (#56) Then you are not unbiased in your testimony. You live there and are sick of drunk people being about. Thus, she got what she deserved, not necessarily because of resisting arrest, but (perhaps?) because she was one of those drunk people, and anything done to clean up the town is fine with you.... ?? (I'm asking respectfully.... do you consider yourself a neutral observer in this case?) Neil McIver posted on 2006-01-19 18:04:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
I don't know Michelle personally. I do know what I saw. Just because I witnessed her actions and I disagree with them does not make me prejudiced against her.
Spoken as a true pettifogger shyster. BTW, what line of work are you in?
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
I don't see how my line of work enters into this discussion.
To get around your spin tactics we must visit dictionary.com where we find the definition of bias. bi·as n. 2. a. A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment. b. An unfair act or policy stemming from prejudice. Then refer back to Neil McIver's post which I copied above. You were saying? ;0)
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Just wondering. Are you a lawyer or paralegal? Do you have a source for your little dissertation on the historical bases of the codes you cite above? Or what is your source of knowledge on this. You leave out the fact that California operates under the Penal Code. Define this if you are able. What type of law is the Penal Code of California? This is not a multiple choice question.
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Richard posted on 2006-01-19 21:55:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply Thought you, Richard were there. Pathetic. Silly man.
"Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially-induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear." -- General Douglas MacArthur
Maybe. Then again, it makes no difference what my background is. It remains true that it's lawful to resist an unlawful arrest. Why do you refuse to acknowledge this simple legal fact?
BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder. Why do you refuse to acknowledge this simple legal fact? I agree with you. Is is legal to resist an unlawful arrest with deadly force?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Wrong. Photographs do, in fact, tell a lot. Not everything, but a lot. Your overbearing statements give away your true intent here. You're here solely to put a spin on this incident.
BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder. He sure is making lots of friends here, isn't he?
I am not prejudiced against Michelle
What would I possibly stand to gain? The police have my information and I told them I would be happy to testify if needed. Perhaps you think they are paying me? Sorry... I live in Deep Ellum and am sick to death of the drunken idiots that think that "the man" is there to keep them down.
#222. To: BTP Holdings (#221)
#223. To: Richard (#220)
#224. To: BTP Holdings (#223)
#225. To: Richard (#222)
not prejudiced?
#226. To: Richard (#224)
I don't see how my line of work enters into this discussion.
#227. To: Richard (#214)
Yes, she may have banged her own face on the ground in an attempt to garner sympathy, she may have continued to struggle and cut herself writhing about... but according to the photos, WE DON'T KNOW.
#228. To: Richard (#141)
How does one determine an "unlawful arrest?"
Do you have a law degree and have you passed the bar in every state in the union?
-- George Bonser
#229. To: Neil McIver (#228)
Maybe. Then again, it makes no difference what my background is. It remains true that it's lawful to resist an unlawful arrest.
#230. To: Richard (#146)
You are going off of photographs that tell you NOTHING.
-- George Bonser
#231. To: Neil McIver (#230)
 | Gold and silver are real money, paper is but a promise. |
#232. To: Jethro Tull (#196)
One of the photos shows a woman pointing at the girl. I'm betting her testimony would not match Richard's.
Give me 10 people at the same scene, all seeing the same event in real time, and I’ll give you 10 different versions of said event.
BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder.
-- George Bonser
#233. To: Neil McIver, Elliott Jackalope (#230)
Yep, he's a dead ringer for a bot award. Too bad I was tied up on other things today. I didn't get to give him a quarter the dose he had coming. ;0)
Your overbearing statements give away your true intent here. You're here solely to put a spin on this incident.
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
#234. To: Richard (#201)
If anything, the photos go more towards making the case that she injured herself. No way, little man. This is silly. A video of the event would be needed to provide the level of evidence you're asking for. Even if one of the still's showed her full face uncut beforehand when she had her hands on the cruiser, you'd argue someone else could have whacked her up side the head just before the cop wrestled her to the ground. If you suggest that it will be disputed that the blood spill was caused by the cop wrestling her to the ground, then do enlighten us as to *everything* that happened. Write your full statement out for the police and post it here.
BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder.
-- George Bonser
#235. To: Richard (#203)
What is your source for this? Is it posted here yet?
Especially with the convictions for public intoxication, resisting arrest, and assauting a police officer on her record going into that trial.
BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder.
-- George Bonser
#236. To: Neil McIver (#232)
You know it. The guy that took the pics says there was maybe 50 people standing nearby who witnessed this. He said the girl's feet were up in the air when the cop slammed her to the pavement. My own professional opinion is that this would be excessive force. And I have 11 years experience in hands on crowd control and security. BTW, PING to #225, and I didn't even got to the transitive verb part of it.
One of the photos shows a woman pointing at the girl. I'm betting her testimony would not match Richard's.
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
#237. To: Neil McIver (#235)
Didn't you know? Richard is also capable of seeing into the future. His prediction is that Michelle will be convicted of whatever charges she is facing at this point. Somehow, I doubt this will occur if she has a good lawyer who smells the blood that was spilled on Elm St.
What is your source for this? Is it posted here yet?
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
#238. To: Hmmmmm (#217)
He's already stated that he is "sick" of the drunks on the street, so he is very much a biased witness from the start (assuming he's really a witness at all). Richard's testimony can't be trusted for that reason.
You really don't get it. You have given contradictory information on this thread and shown predjudice against Michelle.
BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder.
-- George Bonser
#239. To: A K A Stone (#229)
I think you are limited in the force you use just as police are supposed to be limited. That is, you can only use the minimal amount of force necessary to thwart the aggressor. So I think you can only use deadly force to resist unlawful arrest if the unlawful arrest would be likely to kill you. And if that is the case, then it's most likely not mere "unlawful arrest" that you are thwarting, but attempted murder. So I'd say "no" to your question. One difference between law enforcement and military action. Law enforcement uses minimum force necessary, and military action uses any force necessary.
Is is legal to resist an unlawful arrest with deadly force?
BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder.
-- George Bonser
#240. To: BTP Holdings (#225)
Thank you BTP. Even in the face of his statement he pretty much denies being biased, which to me proves his intent here is just to spin. An honest guy would have simply agreed that he was biased. (I did learn *something* from my LP days, even if I still give the benefit of a doubt too often). It sounds like Richard is connected with law enforcement somehow. It would explain his sympathies.
Then refer back to Neil McIver's post which I copied above.
BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder.
-- George Bonser
#241. To: BTP Holdings, Richard (#237)
I'd say she could be convicted of disorderly conduct and STILL win a civil suit. Cops are not there to dispense punishment for crime. That's what due process is for. Being a cop is a tough job I'm sure, but it's not (supposed to be) a vigilante license. It's always possible for cops to act out of line, even if they are dealing with a crook (as we all certainly know). While I'm thinking of it, Richard also said that the cop was written up 3 times in 12 years. Is that public knowledge at this point also? If not, how did he know that? It seems he has some inside connections to the department there. He knows someone, perhaps?
His prediction is that Michelle will be convicted of whatever charges she is facing at this point.
BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder.
-- George Bonser
#242. To: Neil McIver, Richard (#241)
Ooops, did you make a little slip, Richard? Where did you happen to come by this tidbit of informtion? I saw this earlier and thought it odd, but wonder where it originated.
While I'm thinking of it, Richard also said that the cop was written up 3 times in 12 years. Is that public knowledge at this point also? If not, how did he know that? It seems he has some inside connections to the department there. He knows someone, perhaps?
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
#243. To: BTP Holdings (#225)
BTP, I do not have a preference, I simply saw a drunken woman attack a police officer. That does not make me prejudiced. I am able to mete out an impartial judgement based upon what conduct I saw exhibited. If you saw someone shoot a man, would you be prejudiced against them because you are against murder? No, you would just be a witness.
#244. To: BTP Holdings (#226)
BTP, Again, what I do for a living is not your concern. I choose not to answer your question as it is immaterial to the matter at hand. So far as you are concerned, my knowledge of the aforementioned matters comes from my deep desire to learn, and it is accurate. That is all you need to know. I simply pointed out, correctly, that Common Law is not the only principle at play in our system and so you can't go to it for your attempted defense.
#245. To: tom007 (#227)
Tom, You poor ignorant man. The quote you posted was lifted from a discussion of what could be proven SOLELY based upon the photos. Once again, you show your lack of ability to read AND comprehend. Which makes YOU the pathetic, silly man.
#246. To: Neil McIver (#228)
Neil, Because it is an inconsequential and mostly theoretical legal fact, not one that comes into play in daily life. Yes you can find caselaw to support it, but there are not a dozen cases a decade, and nearly all of them lose. The only way you can resist arrest and stand any chance is if it can be proven that you resisted in the course of fighting for your life. Even so, you will be charged with resisting arrest and the courts will handle the matter. It does not enter into the matter at hand, and for all intents and purposes, when you are stopped by the police, you do not have the right to resist arrest. You are free to think you are... enjoy! Michelle was CLEARLY not fighting for her life when she swung on Officer Gordon.
#247. To: Neil McIver (#230)
The photos tell us that the woman was arrested, and that she has a cut on her face that did not occur while she was being handcuffed. The don't tell us much more than that. They dont tell us HOW she was cut or by whom. Again, for Tom, who is too stupid to follow the conversation... based SOLELY on the photos, that is.
#248. To: Neil McIver (#232)
Neil, Yes, I doubt that her drunken rollerskating girlfriend would say a word against her. Good point. Next you will tell me that the girl who swung at the cop would have a different story as well. You are brilliant!
#249. To: Neil McIver (#234)
Again, for Tom, this is just using the photos ALONE as evidence. There is NO way to PROVE (that is big word, but it is important) how she got cut based upon the PHOTOS alone. You could argue that the girl, who was on rollerskates, fell to the ground because she was drunk just as easily as you could argue any other reason she was cut on the face. The photos do NOT tell you how she got cut, they just tell us that she had blood on her face. Hell, they don't even show us that it is HER blood, you can't see the cut. I have seen fights were people are bloody and they are not cut, they just have someone else's blood on them. The cop was cut as well, the blood on the ground could be his. I did not "write" a statement for the police, I gave the officer a verbal statement, and he took my name, address and phone number. Again, that commentary was based on what could be descerned on the photos alone, not on how she got cut. She got cut shortly after she attacked the police officer, who correctly took her to the ground and put her in cuffs. Neil,
#250. To: Neil McIver (#235)
Neil, I spoke with the officers at the scene when I gave my statement. I was THERE, idiot. I know what she was charged with because I asked.
#251. To: BTP Holdings (#236)
BTP, She was on ROLLERSKATES, so her footing was not the best. Shouldn't start a fight with the police when you are drunk and on skates. Your professional opinion does not come into play as you were not a witness to the event and are only responding to hearsay. Sorry
#252. To: Neil McIver (#238)
Neil, stating that I am sick of drunks on the street does not discredit my testimony at all. The behavior that got her arrested was drunken. But the reason that she went to jail was not her drunken conduct, it was her violent behavior. Or are you in favor of violent behavior towards the police? In which case, you would be disqualified because you are prejudiced.
#253. To: Neil McIver (#241)
Neil, She has no chance of winning a civil suit. She assaulted a policeman who used minimal restraint to subdue her. She was on skates and she naturally lost her balance when the officer tried to subdue her after she attacked him, resulting in her hitting the ground. He did not try to mete out any "street justice," he simply put the cuffs on her. Oh, and Neil, the officer's record was made public by every news story in town, but then again, I would not expect you to be anywhere near the facts of the case.
#254. To: Elliott Jackalope (#231)
This was in my inbox tonight. I have only been on for a day, and thsi is the only thread I have commented on, yet I have a supporter who took the time to write me. I am sure you will simply attack him instead of looking at his very valid comments. "Date: Jan 19 8:11:35 PM From: markm0722 To: Richard Subject: Re: (Dallas) Police Deny Excessive Force In Bloody Arrest (black cop, white girl) Most seem willing to judge the police officer, who also happens to be an American citizen and therefore has rights, based on photos of blood and hearsay. I find that very disturbing, especially on a forum which prides itself on freedom and liberty. Maybe we should just form a lynch mob first and ask questions later. At least know that somebody out there agrees with your points." He makes some VERY good points.
Making more friends than you know, Elliott...
#255. To: Richard, All (#254)
Now that I'm dragged in I might just as well elaborate on the points I agree with. First, I can't tell much from looking at the pictures. I can say the picture where his knee is on her neck doesn't look good but I do not know the circumstances leading up to that point nor can I determine them from looking at the photos. It is possible she was beaten. It is also possible she was not beaten. Second, my imagination can come up with plenty of ways that the injuries could have happened when a police officer tries to subdue someone wearing roller skates, especially if that person is under the influence and/or resists. My imagination can also come up with plenty of ways that the officer inflicted the wounds. My imagination isn't worth anything here though and I refuse to use it to fill in the missing blanks. Third, I don't see how her weight is much of a factor. If, and this is a big if, she did attempt to go for his eyes and/or kick him with her skates (as reported here, not that I necessarily believe that version, another story claims the officer was treated for scratches on his face and bruises to his shins, we'll see if that holds up) I can certainly imagine how the results of that might play out, once again in more ways than one. Further, I have a parrot that weighs less than 1 pound. I'm fairly confident a 100 pound woman could do at least as much damage as it could, as scary as that might sound to any of you bird owners. My girlfriend very much respects the damage output of the bird after once mimicking what she thought were playful sounds while he was sitting on her shoulder. Fourth, the face does bleed quite easily. At one point in my life I had an 80 pound German Shepherd attached to mine for a few moments. 2 wounds (one bite) not much more than 1 inch each provided enough blood to cover both my hands completely and it just kept on coming. It took 78 stitches. (Bleeding of the head or face, The head, scalp, and face have many blood vessels close to the surface of the skin, and even small cuts may bleed profusely.) Most importantly, I was not there. I only know what I read and see, which isn't much. I don't know what happened so why would I wish to immediately lay blame? And to repeat, isn't that how lynch mobs are/were formed? Blame first, hang, don't bother asking questions later? Richard, it does bother me that you say she got what she deserved. You are entitled to your opinion of course but it certainly doesn't help your version of the story. If the police officer had any part in helping her get what you claim "she deserved", that's another story altogether. Generally, would a witness who thinks she's getting what she deserves be willing to overlook a few things? That being said, I'm sure that there are also witnesses who would only be able to see police brutality in the hopes that he would get what "he deserves".
When prosperity comes, do not use all of it. - Confucious
The nation is prosperous on the whole, but how much prosperity is there in a hole? - Will Rogers
There are 9,000 hedge funds out there. There aren't that many smart people in the world. - Michael Driscoll, a trader at Bear Stearns & Co. in New York
Some days you just want to pull out the Bonehead Stick and beat people senseless. - mirage
#256. To: markm0722 (#255)
Well thought-out post, I agree with it.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
~James Madison
#257. To: Richard (#247)
As you can't explain your own argument R, I guess calling me stupid is the only way out for a worm like yourself. I don't believe you were there. I think you make things up.
Again, for Tom, who is too stupid to follow the conversation... based SOLELY on the photos, that is.
"Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially-induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear." -- General Douglas MacArthur
#258. To: Neil McIver (#232)
BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder. -- George Bonser Neil McIver posted on 2006-01-20 01:58:33 ET She looks angery and appalled and the other officer looks ashamed. But I'll have to ask Richard to explain what I thought my eyes see.
One of the photos shows a woman pointing at the girl. I'm betting her testimony would not match Richard's.
"Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially-induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear." -- General Douglas MacArthur
#259. To: tom007 (#258)
one time on a crowded street in Tempe AZ on a weekend night when the crowds were out at bars I saw the police chase and arrest a fellow. The police first called to him, then he began to run, he ran for maybe 15 feet, then he stopped put his hands behind his head ready to be arrested and waited for the police to catch him, when the police reached him they shoved him immediately to the pavement face down, then three men stood on top of him, he offered no resistance whatsoever. The three police officers stood side by side, each man with two feet directly on top of this individual's body. I think they wanted him to protest so they could punish him further. Then I heard people in the crowd cheer the police. Richard is like one of those guys cheering the police under these conditions.
#260. To: markm0722 (#255)
Nor were most of those on this thread who nonetheless have strong but not well- informed opinions. Well said, Mark.
Most importantly, I was not there.
#261. To: tom007 (#257)
Tom, You are free to believe what you will. Remember, I dont' care about your opinion. The police at the scene seemed to feel my comments were worthwhile enough to record, and I care about that.
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