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Title: (Dallas) Police Deny Excessive Force In Bloody Arrest (black cop, white girl)
Source:
NBC5i.com
URL Source: http://www.nbc5i.com/news/6158812/detail.html
Published: Jan 16, 2006
Author: NBC5
Post Date: 2006-01-16 20:18:09 by BTP Holdings
Keywords: Excessive, (Dallas), Police
Views: 13267
Comments: 855
POSTED: 5:16 pm CST January 16, 2006
DALLAS -- E-mails and pictures circulating the Internet tell the tale of a Dallas woman's bloody run-in with police after a roller-skating outing escalated into an arrest with excessive force, but officers and some witnesses Monday told a different story.
The incident happened early Saturday morning in Deep Ellum after police attempted to speak with Michelle Metzinger, 25, who, according to a police report, was intoxicated and weaving through traffic on roller skates.
Images: The Arrest & Other Slideshows
The pictures that stemmed from the events that followed are dramatic. They show an officer arresting Metzinger. Her face is covered in blood and there is a puddle of blood on the sidewalk.
"Very excessive. Uncalled for, you know. We're talking about a 250-pound guy and a 100-pound girl. It was just over the top," witness "D.C." said. "All I saw were her feet in the air and disappearing behind a cop car."
However, Dallas police and other witnesses tell a totally different story.
They said Metzinger was drunk and that she not only ignored officers who asked her to stop skating in the street, but also shouted profanities.
According to reports, an officer then tried to arrest Metzinger for public intoxication.
She resisted and attacked the officer, Lt. Rick Watson said.
"The officer attempted to turn her around, at which time the suspect then reached up and grabbed the officer's -- right part of his face -- trying to gouge the officer's eye," Watson said.
Despite the interest that the story has generated online and in the media, Metzinger said she would not comment on the incident until she had consulted with a lawyer.
Metzinger also had not filed a complaint report, so Dallas police were not conducting an internal investigation.
When I worked concert security and someone got bloodied, it was always proper for us to "get our stories straight." Or, as Eddie Murphy said in that movie, "You were lying your asses off." That LT is a lying piece of shit and so is the black cop who LIED in his report.
I'll tell you one thing for certain, this bastard needs to be caught and given a damn hard ball-batting. And then a WHITE magic marker taken to his forehead and the words BAD COP inscribed thereon. What was done was brutal, inexcusable and unjustified.
Police Deny Excessive Force In Bloody Arrest
Dramatic Pictures, Rumors Circulate Online
UPDATED: 6:11 pm CST January 16, 2006
Poster Comment:
Pictures taken by a witness clearly show the cops are LIARS!
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#814. To: Starwind (#813)
Starwind, Wow, you really don't get it. I am NOT hear caring about the cop or the chick in this case. I don't know if the cop was good or bad or if the chick was sober or violent. I have NO idea what really went down there, but it is amusing as hell to watch you all try. I am certian that whatever the outcome, the paper will make a big deal of it. The reason I posted was to let Jethro know that his assertion was incorrect.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman No, you really don't get it. If you'd been honest in your other postings you might be believable, but all you've done (demonstrably) is insult and lie. If it looks like a "Richard", lies like a "Richard", insults like a "Richard" - voila' it's a "Richard" There is no reason to believe anything you claim.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
You are free to believe what you will, Starwind, it is clear from your other postings that you are not one to be swayed by facts. I was simply letting Jethro know that he was incorrect in his presumtion.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman LOL - those facts convicted you of lying here and here You have no credibility. You're in no position to correct anyone.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
Convicted me of lying? WOW you have a very unique definition of lying. You "convicted" me of absolutely nothing on either of those threads. Also, being as how this thread is about an incident in Dallas, and not about your twisted obsessions, this will be my last post on this tread regarding your delusions about me. I made my comment in an effort to inform Jethro he was mistaken and you have very rudely tried to derail this thread. I apologize to the people who are following this tread, I apologize for the rude actions of Jethro and Starwind, as well as for myself, for enaging with them and trying to correct their errors here. This should have been handled in Email, not on this thread. While they may continue to be rude and keep posting about their misguided witchhunt here, I shall not. If I comment on this thread again, it will be to comment on the TOPIC of the thread. Again, I apologize for the disruption that these irresponsible men have caused, and for my participation in trying to correct it.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman BS, you lying sack of shit. Isn’t it curious that anyone who knew Richard, and now you, agrees with me? Keep spewing. Michelle couldn’t have a better “eye witness” than you.
LOL! Didn't you call me Hitler, you weasel mother fucker? I'd love to see you do that to my face.
umm, Gentlemen, please! there are ladies present :) (great posts btw - specially the insults lol) please remember to distribute those pictures of Michelle and Officer Gordon where possible on the Net, and if you can help as a witness or want to contribute to her legal costs, please visit http://www.helpmichelle.org/ thanks :) ruthie XXXXXX (who would love to be a lady if somebody would teach her how!)
That would be an unexpected pleasure. Seeing as we are likey 400+ miles apart, I suppose the first place to start would be HERE. I found out unexpectedly that I possessed some of these qualities years ago when I was dating a woman and we were having a home cooked meal. I set the table the way I've always done under circumstances beyond casual. She piped right in that I knew how to make the place settings with silverware and all. Guess some of this stuff comes naturally to some of us, but the big problem is I haven't got to express that side of me in many years. I love opening the door and pulling out the chair and all sorts of those things. I can even control my language and temper as the situation demands. But then I'm sure you have an idea that a lady can be very much a lady in public, but a tiger of a woman behind closed doors. ;0)
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Oh boy! A fund raiser. Now there's a surpise. LOL Richard W.
"Richard"? is that really you, dear? how lovely - i was beginning to miss you :) i'm flattered to be called a fundraiser and i hope you'll contribute to see Michelle defend herself. after all, that way you might have the chance to present your unbiased, impartial and irrefutably accurate evidence to the benefit of justice (err did i get that right? i'm using an old dictionary!) huggggggggggggggggs your fan ruthie XXXXXX
No, ruthie. "Arete" is not the poster "Richard" earlier in this thread. Arete merely signs his posts 'Richard W.'. That has been his signature for the many years I've known Arete on several forums. Arete holds his opinions legitimately and honestly, unlike "Richard" or "Feynman Lives!".
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
what a shame - i was getting quite excited there! oh well, thank you for telling me, Starwind, and deep apologies to you, Arete :) please forgive me for mixing you up with the other "Richard" love ruthie XXXXXX
Contribute to derby girl's defense? I think I'll pass on that one. Richard W.
(blushes) umm, that was an attempt by me to be sarcastic towards the other "Richard" and was not intended for you - please accept my apologies :( ruthie XXXXXX
Hey ruthie.. seems Richard/Feynman Lives! has been outted as a goofball from Free Republic.. a total disruptor.
i've been studying the photographs of the incident, specially wondering if there are any others around? what interests me VERY much is the leaflets for Assassination City Derby that ended up on the ground covered with blood... ...where were they when Michelle was standing with her hands on the police car? they weren't on the ground - was she holding them? if she was, which hand? and if she WAS holding them, was she STILL holding them when she was on the ground? i'm interested because one of the allegations against her seems to be that she attacked Officer Gordon with her hand possibly scratching or clawing at his eye or soemthing, and i'm very curious to know which side of his face this was supposed to have been. i think Michelle is right-handed but i don't know. i suspect she was holding the leaflets throughout the incident until Officer Gordon forced both her arms behind her back to handcuff her. it looks like the leaflets were under her face when he pressed his knee across her neck and forced her right cheek to the ground. they had to be very close to her to be so covered with blood. what puzzles me, is how a girl on roller skates being manhandled by a person from behind or possible to her right manages to keep hold of the leaflets so only has one hand free to attack him AND try to maintain her balance? any ideas?
here's what i came up with... the main group of photos still have the Exif data which shows a Canon Powershot SD400 was used. the date/timestamps are in sequence from 2006:01:14 00:30:59 onwards. i've enhanced the images as best as i can. i don't know if the other 2 pictures (on helpmichelle) are from the same camera - i think not because the resolutions don't match. i've added notes to the enhanced pics... http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9205/kbvk9fnotes3uk.jpg http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6682/partnerincarnotes6hm.jpg http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8982/kbvklunotes0xq.jpg http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9629/kbvkpinotes4fq.jpg http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/6295/kbvl1hnotes4lo.jpg http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7049/bloodynotes2zg.jpg http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/4195/kbvmzbnotes0xc.jpg ...i think what might have happened is that Officer Gordon used his weight to pin her to the ground, first on her head and neck with his knee, then he pushed her face down to force her cuffed right wrist behind her back and used his knee on the small of her back and his left hand on the back of her neck to keep her pressed against the surface. there are no signs of blood or injury in any of the photos until she is cuffed and pulled to sit upright. most of the blood has pooled on the ground probably where her chin was pressed/scraped while she was face down. the blood smears are from her chin area up her face, indicating her face was rubbed against the ground as he pulled her upright. the other drops are where she was sitting while Officer Gordon pressed down on her shoulders to stop her getting up. i'd really REALLY love to see what evidence of assault Officer Gordon can supply. the pictures we've seen don't show any injury to his face (but there might still be, of course) and he does not appear to have any corroboration from his colleague who sat in the car using the radio. interestingly, the police car's passenger door was open at first but is then closed, preventing the second officer from getting a view of the incident - how unfortunate! there's no trace of blood on the police car either, suggesting she was injured on the ground as he rolled her over and pressed her against the surface. Michelle did not lose her grip on the leaflets with her left hand until she was forced face down. assuming she is supposed to have assaulted him, it would surely be with her free right arm? in the space between the first pic at 00:30:59 and the second pic at 00:32:23 (1 minute and 24 seconds), she has gone from standing immediately next to the police car with both hands on the vehicle and her body stationery to being on her right side 5 feet away from the car being pinned by Officer Gordon. he appears to have tackled her from her right side and spun her around to get her into this position. whatever provocation he claims to have had, Officer Gordon clearly caused the injury to her face. he used unsafe, excessive force to subdue a girl who supposedly assaulted him while keeping hold of her leaflets. he could have caused her major, potentially life-threatening injury by pressing down on her neck with most of his weight on his knee and again with his left hand. he appears to have lost self-control and has attempted to justify himself by claiming Michelle attacked him! what do people think? is this reasonable? i wish we had more pics and the Exif data from them to make a timeline... love ruthie XXXXXX
Check out ruthie's annotated photos. http: //img155.imageshack.us/img155/6682/partnerincarnotes6hm.jpg http:// img155.imageshack.us/img155/8982/kbvklunotes0xq.jpg Great points ruthie! Indeed, the photos would indicate Michelle was gripping the leaflets with one hand (consistently her right hand) until cuffed. Seems unlikely she'd be attacking/clawing/gouging with only one hand. It also suggests Michelle's state of mind, whether conscious or automatic, she seemed to care more about not loosing the leaflets she was circulating rather than attacking or defending. Officer Gordon's face isn't really visible, so its hard to see what injuries he sustained, if any, but it doesn't seem likely.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
Hmmmm, I believe I was mistaken. Not consistenly in her right hand. They seem to be in her right hand when she was standing: http://img99. imageshack.us/img99/9205/kbvk9fnotes3uk.jpg but in her left hand when Officer Gordon was cuffing her right hand: http: //img155.imageshack.us/img155/6682/partnerincarnotes6hm.jpg (The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
Indeed, reasonable and likely!
i was unsure about this at first but i think she always held the leaflets in her left hand. the thing on the front of the police car seems to be some kind of document holder (is that what the police use to write out reports?). if you look really closely at the pictures, she only lost the bundle of leaflets when Officer Gordon had turned her face down. some of the leaflets must have been under her chin when she was injured as they are not spotted with blood but soaked into a small pool of blood, consistent with her position when the wound occurred [i'm getting help with the words here, a legal friend is contributing to this :)] the witnesses during the "missing" one and a half minutes between her standing against the car and ending up with Officer Gordon kneeling on her neck are very important - i wish we had more pictures! love ruthie XXXXXX
hmm...i think we see this man holding a red flag out at the time that Officer Gordon is forcing Michelle to the ground - if you look at the pictures, he might have had the best view of the whole incident and could be crucial to the case - i wonder who he was and why he stood there? does he work nearby? i don't think it is anything like a "riot baton" but just the flag's pole :) love ruthie XXXXXX
ruthie. michelle got beaten because she was skating. the swine who did this needs to be arrested. lets get this done.
hihi Jethro you may be right but Michelle is the one who has been charged and i've not found any references on the net to Officer Gordon being suspended or placed on other duties. i don't really follow the US system but i read this goes to a thing called "Grand Jury" to decide if there's a case to answer? is this a formality or does it make a difference? love ruthie XXXXXX
This thread is no longer appearing in Google or All the Web searches. See my post at Wither Google/AlltheWeb hits on F4um Metzinger thread??? for details.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
crawler bait
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
(Latest from http://www.helpmichelle.org)
"Sunday, March 12th Protest 3:00pm - Exposition and Canton Dallas,
Texas In an effort to build community awareness about police brutality and
help Michelle continue to fight we have planned a protest. We will meet at
3:00 pm on Sunday, March 12th at the corner of Exposition and Canton near the
monument. We will then walk to the Darkside Lounge at 2810 Elm street. The
Darkside Lounge is going to have live music, BBQ, and an open bar. Bring
signs and a loud voice." love ruthie
for info... http://www.texasgigs.com/news/2006/feb/22/assassination-city-derby-crow-records-presents/?print
from Michelle's friends... "There will be a peaceful protest against excessive force next Sunday. Here are the details: Sunday, March 12th 3:00 pm Meet @ the monument @ Canton & Exposition(near Doublewide) We will March(with a police escort) to Deep Ellum and end @ Darkside Lounge on Elm Street Darkside will have live music, barbecue, and drink specials This protest is a result of the incident with Michelle Metzinger on January 13, 2006. However, we will be protesting excessive force and communicating to the community that we will not tolerate this behavior. Please come protest and show your support whether you know Michelle or not. Remember, this could and will continue to happen to all kinds of people until we stand up and say "NO". Also, keep in mind that this is a peaceful protest and all efforts, signs, and language should be in good taste. Our objective is to get the community to listen, not turn them away. People of all ages are encouraged to attend the protest. In honor of Michelle, we will be skating if possible so bring your skates(if you have them) in case this works out! Please tell as many people as possible and coordinate bringing everyone you can. The media will be covering this event and we want to show law enforcement and our community that we are serious about holding them accountable for their behavior. Bring signs and show up. This will be so much fun!!"
flag to Ruthie's post
Just say NO to neo-Nazi police state facilitators.
Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear. Harry S. Truman
for interest...
Umm...just wondering if anyone heard any more about Michelle's case? love ruthie XXXXXX
I check periodically for court filings and to date there has been nothing, at least nothing the public can access, which either means the case is sealed so far perhaps due to the police excessive force investigation, or nothing. But I would expect to at least see an arrest and charge entry, but not even that, so I'm not sure what's up.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
thank you for checking :) love ruthie
But I would expect to at least see an arrest and charge entry, but not even that, so I'm not sure what's up. hihi Starwind i asked my legal friend and he said that although the system is entirely different to Scotland he expected the case might be 'under review' in some way. He pointed out if the incident wasn't witnessed by another officer or recorded on video so it becomes one officer's word against the arrested person with the only relief (his word not mine!) being the evidence of witnesses who are reliable and impartial. He also said the pictures are significant but not conclusive because the images ofthe events between her standing with her hands on the car and being under him on the ground are not available (i'm typing this from memory lol). what he did say was she might still have grounds to sue the officer for assaulting her even if she is convicted. if it can be shown that he disregarded police training and rules by his use of force on her neck and back, he has no defense against the pictures regardless of if she was drunk, etc. does this make any sense? my friend also said in Scotland there would be a lot of negotiation between defense lawyers and the Procurator Fiscal (you don't have this system in the US) and the criminal case would probably not reach a court. His only other comment was that the police are increasinly having to record incidents and arrests not to get evidence but to protect themselves against accusations, bacause so many people have cameras and video in their mobile phones! love ruthie XXXXXX
...then THIS shows up! http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/031706dnmetskater.304e63a6.html "Skater charged with assault on officer Witnesses denied she was aggressor; internal investigation continuing 09:38 PM CST on Thursday, March 16, 2006 By ROBERT THARP / The Dallas Morning News A Dallas Roller Derby skater was indicted Thursday on a felony charge of assaulting a Dallas police officer stemming from a January incident in which she and several witnesses say the officer was the aggressor and used excessive force. Reports related to the indictment charge that Michelle Metzinger, 25, was belligerent and fought with Officer Ceaphus Gordon after the officer asked to see her identification because, he said, she had been roller skating recklessly through traffic on Elm Street in Deep Ellum. Michelle Metzinger Michelle Metzinger According to Officer Gordon's report, Ms. Metzinger tried to gouge his eye with her fingers when he tried to handcuff and arrest her on a charge of public intoxication. The officer then tried to force Ms. Metzinger to the sidewalk using a "straight arm bar take down," but instead, she "rolled from the police car to the ground," his report says. Ms. Metzinger continued scratching and kicking the officer on the ground, the report says. Officer Gordon described his injuries as three 1/8th-inch scratches near his right eye and scratches and bruises on his chin. He described Ms. Metzinger's injury as a "small laceration that required a stitch," although his report indicates that she spent five hours at Parkland Memorial Hospital before she was taken to jail. Kevin Clancy, Ms. Metzinger's attorney, said he was disappointed that he was not allowed to present evidence to the grand jury that would have offered a different account of what happened. Eight witnesses to the arrest have filed affidavits saying that Ms. Metzinger was not intoxicated and that she did not resist the officer. The witnesses state that after Ms. Metzinger was forced to the ground, Officer Gordon put his knee on her back or neck while he was handcuffing her, which is not described in the officer's reports. "I think it's a travesty that this poor girl was charged with this," Mr. Clancy said. "I really do think that the grand jury did not look at the evidence." A separate investigation into the incident by Dallas police internal affairs is ongoing. Mr. Clancy said Dallas police have so far not interviewed any of the witnesses. Officer Gordon has had 27 complaints filed against him in his 14-year career, most of which were ruled "unfounded" or "inconclusive." Of those inconclusive complaints, at least two involved allegations of excessive force. E-mail rtharp@dallasnews.com" ruthie :( XXXXXX
another forum for info... http://www.txrd.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=288&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 ruthie
hey ruthie: go here for our discussion of the newest material :
Lonestar Rollergirls, I love it! I need to take this Brian Wilson Smile CD off the current playlist, brb
Thanks for Prohibition and the war against drugs. Thanks for a country where nobody's allowed to mind their own business. Thanks for a nation of finks. Yes, thanks for all the memories-- all right let's see your arms!- William S Burroughs
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestNo where near as ironic as your protestations that you don't give a damn about this case, and here you are caring about essentially the same cop, except you aren't Richard. Most curious...
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#815. To: Feynman Lives! (#814)
The reason I posted was to let Jethro know that his assertion was incorrect.
#816. To: Starwind (#815)
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#817. To: Feynman Lives! (#816)
You are free to believe what you will, Starwind, it is clear from your other postings that you are not one to be swayed by facts.
I was simply letting Jethro know that he was incorrect in his presumtion.
#818. To: Starwind (#817)
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#819. To: Feynman Lives! (#812)
Sorry, Jethro, but I have am not the "richard"
#820. To: Feynman Lives! (#818)
I apologize for the rude actions of Jethro and Starwind
#821. To: ALL (#820)
#822. To: ruthie (#821)
(who would love to be a lady if somebody would teach her how!)
#823. To: ruthie (#771)
Michelle is very grateful for the kind words of encouragement and any practical help would be appreciated :)
#824. To: Arete (#823)
Richard W.
#825. To: ruthie, Arete (#824)
"Richard"? is that really you, dear? how lovely - i was beginning to miss you :)
#826. To: Starwind (#825)
#827. To: ruthie (#824)
i hope you'll contribute to see Michelle defend herself.
#828. To: Arete (#827)
#829. To: ruthie (#828)
#830. To: All (#829)
#831. To: All (#830)
#832. To: ruthie, Richard, Jethro Tull, BTP Holdings, Elliott Jackalope, tom007, Dakmar, christine, zipporah (#831)
i suspect she was holding the leaflets throughout the incident until Officer Gordon forced both her arms behind her back to handcuff her.
it looks like the leaflets were under her face when he pressed his knee across her neck and forced her right cheek to the ground. they had to be very close to her to be so covered with blood.
Michelle did not lose her grip on the leaflets with her left hand until she was forced face down.
what puzzles me, is how a girl on roller skates being manhandled by a person from behind or possible to her right manages to keep hold of the leaflets so only has one hand free to attack him AND try to maintain her balance?
#833. To: All (#832)
(consistently her right hand)
#834. To: ruthie (#831)
whatever provocation he claims to have had, Officer Gordon clearly caused the injury to her face. he used unsafe, excessive force to subdue a girl who supposedly assaulted him while keeping hold of her leaflets. he could have caused her major, potentially life-threatening injury by pressing down on her neck with most of his weight on his knee and again with his left hand. he appears to have lost self-control and has attempted to justify himself by claiming Michelle attacked him!
#835. To: Starwind (#833)
#836. To: All (#802)
The bystander (possibly a security guard) in the red jacket (photo #3, far lt.) is holding a homemade "riot baton" (from appearances, made of dowel rod). I have no idea why the police are permitting that, or why the person is permitted to be close to the situation, as others are being warned away
#837. To: ruthie, RICHARD (#836)
#838. To: Jethro Tull (#837)
#839. To: ruthie, all (#838)
#840. To: All (#0)
#841. To: All (#840)
XXXXXX
#842. To: All (#841)
#843. To: All (#842)
#844. To: Starwind, Jethro Tull, BTP Holdings (#843)
#845. To: ruthie, christine (#843)
Remember, this could and will continue to happen to all kinds of people until we stand up and say "NO".
#846. To: All (#845)
http://www.dallascityhall.com/dallas/eng/pdf/mcc/DeepEllumTaskForce.pdf
ruthie
XXXXXX
#847. To: All (#846)
#848. To: ruthie (#847)
#849. To: Starwind (#848)
XXXXXX
#850. To: Starwind (#848)
I check periodically for court filings and to date there has been nothing, at least nothing the public can access, which either means the case is sealed so far perhaps due to the police excessive force investigation, or nothing.
#851. To: All (#850)
#852. To: All (#851)
XXXXXX
#853. To: ruthie (#852)
#854. To: ruthie (#852)
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