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Title: Loose Change 2nd Edition on Google Video
Source:
Google Video
URL Source: http://video.google.com/videoplay?d ... 581991288263801&q=loose+change
Published: Jan 27, 2006
Author: Dylan Avery/Louder Than Words production
Post Date: 2006-01-27 13:22:46 by valis
Keywords: Edition, Change, Google
Views: 3213
Comments: 156
An ARG reader has noticed that Google Video is now hosting a streaming version of For those who have seen it, this link serves as a handy reference. For those who have not, after viewing, you’ll probably want to pick up a copy or two.
Loose Change 2nd edition (hopefully with Dylan Avery’s permission)
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#90. To: robin (#88)
Agreed, there are insufficient verifiable details for one to reach their own conclusion independantly. But the explanation is plausible, at least to me. I'm not sure to what "facts refuting that statement" you refer. There are many unsubstantiated suspicions by many in the trading business, yes. But their suspicions are no more substantiated fact than are TBR News Staff's allusions to "in-house memos now circulating" which is likewise unsubstantiated and unverifiable, but again plausible, at least to me. I wish it were different. I'd like to see images of timestamped, signed photocopy's with letterheads, watermarks etc. But sadly neither source provides sufficient verifiable details to reach conclusions on our own (or at least on my own). Not the SEC/FBI, nor TBR. If we're to avoid being mislead, in any direction by anyone, we ought to at least be consistent in where we set the bar for substantiation.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
This NationalReview article is only looking for ties to al-Qaida and proves there are none, end of story. CIA EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR "BUZZY" KRONGARD MANAGED FIRM THAT HANDLED "PUT" OPTIONS ON UAL Lucky Larry WTC destroyed, a multi-billion insurance compensation consoles Larry Silverstein
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales The NRO article seems a rehash (plus enough speculation & anecdote to fill out an article for publication) of what the SEC concluded. I don't see why you cited it. The 'supressed details of criminal insider trading' adds no facts to what either the SEC concluded or to what NRO commented, but it does confuse the aggregate statistics of options and stocks together, not bothering itself with the realities of what positions any given trader took and how they profited or lost. The SEC concluded that the bulk of the UAL put options (a short position) and 115,000 shares of AMR (a long position) were traded by one institution. What Rupert ignores (or doesn't know) is that these short and long positions offset each other and since both UAL & AMR fell in the aftermath of 9/11, the institution's trade doesn't look very smart or 'insiderish' - it looks frankly normal and unprofitable. Also as options have an expiration date (which was not disclosed) it is not obvious from which date profits/losses should be calculated. So, for news articles to speculate that as of Sept 29th "profits had gone uncollected" (as if they were an unclaimed lottery ticket) is plainly uninformed. Lastly, the piece about Silverman is clearly grinding the anti-jewish/zionist axe more than anything else and presumes much not in evidence about the liability and payout provisions of the lease and insurance agreements, which IIRC the insurance companies have yet to payoff - a risk Silverman takes. Silverman's deal was valued at $3.2B pre-9/11. Silverman may get about $1.1B in insurance payouts. After the $616M he owes the Port Authority up front he keeps maybe $500M. Given his rental property is destroyed it is looking like he gets maybe $500M from insurers to split with his partners but loses $2.7B in future rental profits he will never see from his 99-year lease on now destroyed property. And we don't know what money he might owe the Port Authority ongoing under the lease, but I would guess the lease probably has 'Force Majeure' provisions which let him off the hook. Regardless, not very smart money management one expects from an 'insider'. I daresay if the NY Port Authority had leased the WTC to anyone but a Jew we wouldn't be hearing about it.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
No I totally disagree.. I dont care if he's jewish or Latvian.. What brought questions about Silverstein are the following:
I mentioned why, it was only looking to prove that terrorists did not make $$ from the put options.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales Yes, well the "National Journal" has a decidedly different slant: I won't pretend to know the truth about WTC 6 & 7. I did say the SEC/FBI findings on the suspicious insider 'put options' were plausible to me and could be truthful even though the rest of the 9/11 Commission Report could be false. But I don't see were any of this speculation about Silverstein proves or disproves the 'put option' suspicions. My point above in post #90 to robin was about the inability to substantiate independently. I don't see where either the accusers or defenders have made that possible and I choose to take any/all of it with considerable salt. Don't confuse "plausible" with "self-evident" - they are not the same.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
That was the SEC/FBI's point - whoever was the institution making those suspicious trades, they likely didn't profit and they had presumed AMR's stock price would move in the opposite direction (up) of UAL's (down) - terrorist or no.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
I disagree, if his name had been "Marvin Bush", he still would be considered very "lucky". The timing is what is suspect. WTC was built with taxpayer $$. We are the losers. His 99 year lease and the amazing purchase of "terrorist insurance" less than 2 months before 9/11 is remarkable. And how did he manage to obtain this 99 year lease? That deserves more investigation. Also, "Painful Deceptions" goes further and discusses how as the owner of building 7, he told the fire dept to "pull it" or demolish it. Every controlled demolition takes weeks to prepare, yet they managed it in a few hours. **************************************** Many theorists turn to the activities of the stock market and finance to highlight claims of foreknowledge. * Larry Silverstein, backed by a number of investors, signed a 99-year lease for the World Trade Center complex seven weeks before the World Trade Center was destroyed in 2001. Silverstein already owned 7 World Trade Center which was also destroyed in the attack. Silverstein was awarded an insurance payment of more than three and a half billion dollars in settlement. In addition, the Silverstein group sued the insurers liable for the World Trade Center for another three and a half billion dollars. They claimed that according to their contract the two planes constituted two separate terrorist attacks. Most of the insurers prevailed in a trial (Silverstein was never granted an additional $2.3 billion in extra insurance money as a result) while others are still in litigation. * Following the attack, Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman Harvey Pitt said the SEC was examining all unusual trading activity of stocks most severely affected by the Sept. 11 attacks. [5] o The most notable reference to the stock market is the report of a high volume of put options being purchased in the days before 9/11 on both American and United Airlines. The number of put options purchased was more than six times higher than normal. CNN reported in September of 2001 that the industry had been on unstable ground throughout the year, and there were a number of put option spikes well before the attacks.[6]. o CNN reported that "Between August 10 and September 10, the NYSE says short sales of UAL Corp. increased 40 percent, American parent AMR Corp increased 20 percent, and aircraft manufacturer Boeing Corp. increased 37 percent. [7] o Put options were also purchased for Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, which occupied 22 stories in the World Trade Center. o Merrill Lynch & Co., with headquarters near the Twin Towers, saw a 1200% increase in put options bought in the four days preceding 9/11. o Munich Re, the world's biggest reinsurance company, was also examined. A reported $2.5 million in profits made trading options went unclaimed after 9/11. Insider trading is said to have also occurred in several other countries immediately before the attacks of Sept. 11. o Investigators from the U.S. Secret Service contacted a number of bond traders regarding large purchases of five-year Treasury notes before the attacks. Five-year Treasury notes are considered one of the best investments in the event of a world crisis. [8] o Germany's central bank governor Ernst Welteke says there were signs of suspicious movements in oil and gold prices before the attack. [9] o To date, no concrete evidence has yet been provided for anything sinister in these transactions; US intelligence agencies are known to monitor markets for signs of imminent untoward events. * On September 10 Amr "Anthony" Elgindy, an Egyptian-born financial analyst tried to liquidate his children's $300,000 trust account. Although this report doesn't indicate US involvement, Assistant U.S. Attorney Ken Breen has stated that this could have indicated foreknowledge of the attacks. [10]
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales But if you're going to allege Silverstein planned the destruction of the WTC, you've got to explain how he pulled it off 3 months after winning the right to buy it (and why would be helpful as well). If you're going to allege he planned the destruction of only buildings 6 & 7, you've got to explain how he set that up within hours of the towers going. Occam's razor - he didn't know. He's your garden variety Jewish NY real estate mogul, not bent on killing and conspiring against the American people. I'd like to be such a loser. The Port Authority wished to sell the WTC (it being a target for attacks, such as those in 1993, made it an insurance liability). But the WTC was built in 1973 for about $750M of the taxpayers money ( World Trade Center). So when it was sold to Silverstein in 2001 for $3.2B including a lease on the land for $116M/year, the taxpayers netted a profit of about $2.5B up front, so they weren't losers, were they. No, they did quite well off Mr. Silverstein ('course I'm sure NYC didn't actually rebate a dime to any taxpayer - but they did unload the insurance liability). 99 years is a very standard lease term for real estate. Further, Silverstein was outbid by a larger group, Vornado Realty Trust of Paramus, N.J, but when talks with Vornado fell thru, Silversteins group came to the fore ( Silverstein Properties and Westfield win $3.2B World Trade Center lease). So he 'managed' to get the 99-year lease by paying more than the next guy and giving up more than the next guy. Silverstein bought the WTC buildings but he did not buy the land under them. The land is what the 99-year lease is for, and while I don't know the details, apparently Silverstein is still required to pay on the land lease. So he was squeezed between not having any buildings to rent out and owing on the land lease. Lastly, I don't know what you consider to be an "amazing purchase of terrorist insurance" but consider that the WTC had already been the repeated target of terrorist attacks. I can't imagine anyone in Silverstein's consortium (or anyone's for that matter) putting up money without insurance, including terrorism coverage, and it very likely was a condition of sale set by the Port Authority. The rest of the Wikipedia article are more variations on the "suspicious trades" already discussed. Additional references don't make them anymore suspicious or substantiated. Factual proof of a particular trade, OTOH, would be most welcomed.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
I can't be held responsible for what the National Journal's spin is.. I'm not disputing the put options without some further evidence.. but I did post a couple of links that puts Silverstein under some suspicion IMO..
Certainly not. My criticism of anti-jewish/zionist axes being ground was directed at them, not you or robin. Yes, I understand that is your opinion. I briefly glanced at the video clips of Silverstein's statements. I understand the implications, I'd need to dig deeper into what is being alleged, though I don't think I will take the time at prersent, I have other priorities and the conspiracy theories often are baseless at bottom. Rest assured, I don't believe the governments version. But neither do I believe the conspiracy theories.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
The government's versions ARE conspiracy therories. Any way a impartial observer cuts it, The governments versions are conspiracy theories.
The land is not for sale, never.
Not true, there were others mentioned in wikipedia besides the airline put options. o Put options were also purchased for Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, which occupied 22 stories in the World Trade Center. o Merrill Lynch & Co., with headquarters near the Twin Towers, saw a 1200% increase in put options bought in the four days preceding 9/11. o Munich Re, the world's biggest reinsurance company, was also examined. A reported $2.5 million in profits made trading options went unclaimed after 9/11. Insider trading is said to have also occurred in several other countries immediately before the attacks of Sept. 11. o Investigators from the U.S. Secret Service contacted a number of bond traders regarding large purchases of five-year Treasury notes before the attacks. Five-year Treasury notes are considered one of the best investments in the event of a world crisis. [8] o Germany's central bank governor Ernst Welteke says there were signs of suspicious movements in oil and gold prices before the attack. [9] ******** The timing was set by the Port Authority as the bidding process went on their schedule. Several groups bid. Silverstein's bid was 2nd or 3rd and not being considered. The strongest group (Brookfield) had the lowest bid but to avoid appearance of favoritism, negotiations began with the top $$ bidder (Vornado) who later broke off negotiations and only then did Silverstein's bid get acted on. To the extent the top bidders fell out, yes, then Silverstein was lucky. Oh and how did that happen? You are not naive enough to think these types of biddings are run fairly are you? And in NYC? Give me a break. You are looking at this backwards. IF 9/11 was a pre-planned Pearl Harbor type attack, then the person who won the bid is significant. He also just happened to already own building 7, which as I pointed out to you he told the fire dept to "Pull it" which means to demolish it. (And you never replied to the fact that it takes weeks to prepare, but the building came down in hours and then the official explanation was that it fell from the fires (which is baloney, they were small). The penthouse fell first and it was stories from the small fires in building 7. It was no doubt a demolition.) You should watch both videos. "Loose Change" also brings up all the gold bars that were stored at WTC. Any building that was not owned by Silverstein Properties strangely remained upright. Plus Silverstein got a break on taxes, and he ended up with plenty of money. The World Trade Center is a gold mine. And Larry Silverstein knows it. Silverstein already owned number Seven WTC, but he led a consortium that just months ago signed a new $3.2 billion US, 99-year lease on the WTC complex. That was the first time the WTC had changed hands in it's thirty year history. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey signed the deal with the Silverstein-led Westfield America on the 26th April, 2001. Westfield America leased the concourse mall, and Silverstein the office portion. The deal was finalized and celebrated on the 23rd July -just seven weeks before almost the entire complex was destroyed. Port Authority officers gave a giant set of keys to the complex to Silverstein and to Westfield CEO Lowy. Silverstein was ecstatic at that time. "This is a dream come true," he had said. "We will be in control of a prized asset, and we will seek to develop its potential, raising it to new heights." An ironic choice of words, in retrospect. The leased buildings included Numbers One and Two (the Twin Towers), Four, Five and 400,000 square feet of retail space. The Marriott Hotel (3WTC), U.S. Customs building (6WTC) and Silverstein's own 47-story office building were already under lease. Despite the transfer to private hands, the tax payments would still come from the Port Authority -who had been making yearly $25 million payments in lieu of taxes to New York City. The proper figure should be more like $100 million according to city administrators. Silversteen is undeterred by the demolition of the complex. He already has somewhat insensitive plans to rebuild. Four towers this time. Although the complex was not insured against an act of war, new policies insured against terrorist damage. Which leaves everybody financially consoled, even if not emotionally so. The vendors still have the $3.2 billion they made on the sale. The purchasers lease deal had spanking new insurance --with new beneficiaries-- for capital value and loss of income. Silverstein has insurance money to rebuild and get the $110 million of annual rental income flowing again. Or double that with his planned four towers. Nice money if you can get it. Can he? Not if the insurers could help it. They are the big losers. And they detest having to pay a claim on a policy taken out only weeks before. Indeed, they often delay payment to investigate cases where immediate claims are made against brand new policies.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales ping to my post to Starwind.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales Wonder why that is.?
I sure wish that you could view Painful Deceptions here.
Wonder why that is.? They aren't stupid or they would not be in business long. All of the debris was removed (by the same company that removed the OKC debris) quickly, which for a crime scene is a crime. I wonder what the insurance company learned; we'll never know. "We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales Rest assured, I don't believe the governments version. But neither do I believe the conspiracy theories. Hmm baseless at the bottom? I dont automatically believe everything that those who doubt the official conspiracy theory allege..that is why I asked for your input for I dont have enough knowledge to make a judgement. I think it's a matter of looking at evidence .. based on facts and irrefutable and circumstantial evidence. IMO Prof David Ray Griffin gives the most succinct analysis of the issues re 9/11 .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ray_Griffin There are several things that just does not and cannot fit in the official conspiracy theory here are just a couple: 1) How is it possible the WTC bldgs collapsed? The official theory of course is that it was due to fire but has been refuted many times by scientists although of course Popular Science did a piece on this and was more than ridiculous. 2) If you do in fact believe the official theory on the first 2 WTC blgs how is it possible the 3rd bldg collapsed? 3) Indira Singh (did IT work for JP Morgan Chase and Interoperability Clearinghouse ..Singh was contracted to develop A.I. risk managing programs re fraud in banking systems/the market and one of the s/w programs she looked at was PTECH) That being said.. Singh said PTech, BMI, Geneva Capital and the other companies interrelated were not only laundering money illegally to terrorist groups.. 4) Sibel Edmonds and her FBI experience and what she's said about who is involved in 9/11 re Americans “drug trafficking, money laundering, foreign names and American names directly involved in the financing of the 9-11 attacks on WTC (World Trade Center) and the Pentagon.”
Alright then, put options for what exactly, when did they expire, and for whom MSDW or clients of MSDW? And was MSDW acting a counterparty, offsetting/hedging against the put options purchased by others, or were they trading for their own account? Ditto for Merrill Lynch. Again options on what? when did they expire? for whom were they bought? When options expire without being exercised the profit is lost. Options that aren't "claimed" didn't get exercised, so how are "profits" on expired and unclaimed options determined, pray tell? How large? Several billion dollars worth are traded daily. The US markets and economy was already plunging rapidly into fall of 2001. What large purchases stood out in that climate? LOL - when isn't the price of gold and oil being manipulated? There is not enough fact to prove or disprove these suspicions (anybody can suspect anything, and apparently they do) independently of having to accept someone elses finding. If I saw a conspiracy theory that actually addressed the reality of how options, stocks bonds, etc are traded normally and then showed what was specifically different pre-9/11 and how the SEC was wrong, specifically, that woul dbe important. But repetition of old suspicions in absence of any thoughtful analysis isn't credible. Alright then lets start with your analysis of how the bidding should have gone, how Silverstein, the NY Port Authority, Brookfield, Vornado, etc all conspired to control the timing, the outcome, the price, setup the planes/missiles, whatever, and coordinated it all with the Pentagon and the airlines, the Likud, Mossad, etc, etc etc.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
Also mine #108.. IMO what Singh had to say about PTech .. and what Singh said coincides with what Edmonds said to some in congress.. Also which is VERY odd.. AFTER the fact Ashcroft put a gag order on Edmonds.
Zipporah posted on 2006-01-28 22:57:02 ET Sibel provides a provocotive look into to whole mess. She needs to be the new Attorney General.
Have you read much re Singh? There is a very interesting video on Snowshoefilms.com of her.. what she has to say is compelling.
Also there is a blog that focuses on the Edmonds case.. it is very in depth and has done a lot of connecting the dots and investigative work. http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2005/12/sibel-edmonds-brewster-jennings_28.html
I'll ask a third time about building 7, Larry Silverstein said to "Pull it", this means to demolish the building. Why did he say that? Why were the only buildings left standing buildings not owned or leased by Larry Silverstein? There are many unanswered questions about put options, and they are suspicious. The govt refuses to investigate more, why? IF some group within our govt did 9/11, do you really think they could not contrive NYC bidding at least as easily as Tony Soprano? Let me ask you this, do you think Bush could have invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, crammed the Patriot Act down our throats, started the DHS, and illegally wiretapped on Americans, w/o 9/11?
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales Griffin is highly respected and his study and analysis of this New Pearl Harbor is done in a scholarly way.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales Robin, you're too nice to the Zyclon B victims...why is there no memorial in those dreaded camps for all the lice that died in this Holocaust?
Obviously he screwed up and missed a couple. Perhaps they recognized the futility of it? Is there any proof that would, in your mind, exhonerate Larry Silverstein or the unamed institutional trader? I honestly don't believe they are anywhere near smart enough. I don't believe they would start out with 9/11 as "the plan". I'm willing to believe they botched the detection, prevention, and reaction so badly (ala Katrina) that a lot of really bad decisions were made and covered up. I'm sure there are liars on all sides of these issues, for various self-serving motives. Just because someone is attempting to disprove the government's theory, does not mean they are truthful about their own testimony. All the evidence, testimony, theories, whatever need to be scrutinized. Just like lies will found on all sides, so will a grain of truth be found here and there. And even some aspects of the government's version can be truthful while other aspects are not. But if you discard all of it out of hand simply because it is touted by the government, if you swallow everything simply because it disputes the government, you'll never find the truth. Life is rather more complicated than what Tony Soprano experiences. Yes I do. Never misunderestimate stupidity - his or ours (collectively).
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
One question.. have you ever read the Northwoods document?
Then maybe you should investigate a little. Watch the videos, search the net, check the links posted to you about it. There is a video of him speaking, there are quotes, he said it. Building 7 had some interesting tenants, our govt, as I posted to you also. Open your mind. The govt refuses to investigate more, why? Perhaps they recognized the futility of it? How absurd. I honestly don't believe they are anywhere near smart enough. I don't believe they would start out with 9/11 as "the plan". I'm willing to believe they botched the detection, prevention, and reaction so badly (ala Katrina) that a lot of really bad decisions were made and covered up. FEMA is not NSA/CIA. Let me ask you this, do you think Bush could have invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, crammed the Patriot Act down our throats, started the DHS, and illegally wiretapped on Americans, w/o 9/11? Yes I do. Never misunderestimate stupidity - his or ours (collectively). Also absurd. There had to be a really good reason. Why didn't we join the Allies in WWII until AFTER Pearl Harbor? This was planned in advance. At the time of the attack which destroyed the World Trade Center Dov Zakheim was the Comptroller of the Pentagon, appointed in May of 2001. Before becoming the Pentagon's money-manager, he was an executive at System Planning Corporation, a defense contractor specializing in electronic warfare technologies including remote-controlled aircraft systems Zakheim is a member of the Project for a New American Century and participated in the creation of its 2000 position paper Rebuilding America's Defenses which called for "a New Pearl Harbor".
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales No.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
Answer yourself, Starwind???, "prey tell?". And the real question ??is, why would you try to obfuscate? and defend this evil explotive operation????. Starwind? Bull crapola not allowed in the answer??, Starwind??.
Well I had hoped to put one over on you, but alas you are too shrewed for me. No biscuit tonight.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
This is what made me rethink 9/11: This document, titled “Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba” was provided by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, as the key component of Northwoods. Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake “Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington,” including “sink[ing] a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated),” faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a “Remember the Maine” incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage. Bamford himself writes that Operation Northwoods “may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government.”
That's not possible Zip, the govt is too incompetent, Katrina proves it, according to Starwind. So then is al-Qaida and OBL more competent than our govt? Is that what he means? FEMA turning away flotillas of aid, trucks with water, that's criminal, not incompetence. The govt awarding Halliburton the cleanup contract 3 days after Katrina struck, while Americans were still about to die in New Orleans, that's criminal, not incompetence. Forcing the victims out of the state, destroying their homes out from under them, that's criminal, not incompetence. New Orleans is a MAJOR shipping port for oil, natural gas, etc. Here's the attitude that may have played a part in what is even now happening to the people of New Orleans. The President's mother on national television after Katrina: "We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales The President's mother on national television after Katrina: "And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she chuckles slightly) is working very well for them." Oh this wasnt incompetence just like Iraq isnt incompetence..it is purposeful IMO.. on both issues.. NOW why would they perhaps want to clear NO of the riff raff?.. Speaking of 9/11 and Larry Silverstein:
I actually forgot Larry popped up in New Orleans after Katrina. Starwind the Scripture is "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Our nation is a huge prize, it is not surprising that there are evil ones who would devise schemes to control it. To be blind is not wise.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales Actually it wasnt Silverstein himself.. just another person who made a mint from a disaster... the WSJ saw the parallel and called him the Larry Silverstein of NO.
Oh, that's it, thanks. His name did though, but they are really talking about Judah Hertz.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales You have not done enough research on the events of 911. This is the most defining event for the US in our history. You should make more time, do more reading, and view some videos on the event. The criminals behind 911 are not some bumbling keystone government officials, this was planned 5-7 years in advance by deep government military agencies. Mark
Here is are some audio links of Indira Singh re 9/11 and terrorism.. important stuff: http://www.4acloserlook.com/realaudio/102805a-singh.ram
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest But they give no details, just blanket statements. Those are the juvenile and bully tactics being used.
No explanation, just patent unsubstantiated statements despite all the facts refuting that statement.
#91. To: Starwind (#90)
Was There Another 9/11 Attack on Wall Street? 
#92. To: robin (#91)
#93. To: Starwind, robin (#92)
I daresay if the NY Port Authority had leased the WTC to anyone but a Jew we wouldn't be hearing about it.
#94. To: Starwind (#92)
The NRO article seems a rehash (plus enough speculation & anecdote to fill out an article for publication) of what the SEC concluded. I don't see why you cited it.
#95. To: Zipporah (#93)
No I totally disagree.. I dont care if he's jewish or Latvian..
Whenever so many wonderful people of the Jewish faith come together and celebrate their deserved fortune, Daniel Liebeskind must never be missed out.
#96. To: robin (#94)
I mentioned why, it was only looking to prove that terrorists did not make $$ from the put options.
#97. To: Starwind (#92)
Lastly, the piece about Silverman is clearly grinding the anti-jewish/zionist axe more than anything else and presumes much not in evidence about the liability and payout provisions of the lease and insurance agreements, which IIRC the insurance companies have yet to payoff - a risk Silverman takes.
#98. To: robin (#97)
I disagree, if his name had been "Marvin Bush", he still would be considered very "lucky". The timing is what is suspect.
The timing was set by the Port Authority as the bidding process went on their schedule. Several groups bid. Silverstein's bid was 2nd or 3rd and not being considered. The strongest group (Brookfield) had the lowest bid but to avoid appearance of favoritism, negotiations began with the top $$ bidder (Vornado) who later broke off negotiations and only then did Silverstein's bid get acted on. To the extent the top bidders fell out, yes, then Silverstein was lucky. WTC was built with taxpayer $$. We are the losers.
His 99 year lease and the amazing purchase of "terrorist insurance" less than 2 months before 9/11 is remarkable. And how did he manage to obtain this 99 year lease? That deserves more investigation.
#99. To: Starwind (#95)
#100. To: Zipporah (#99)
I can't be held responsible for what the National Journal's spin is..
but I did post a couple of links that puts Silverstein under some suspicion IMO..
#101. To: Starwind, robin (#100)
Rest assured, I don't believe the governments version. But neither do I believe the conspiracy theories.
#102. To: Starwind (#98)
lverstein bought the WTC buildings but he did not buy the land under them.
#103. To: Starwind (#98)
The rest of the Wikipedia article are more variations on the "suspicious trades" already discussed.
#104. To: tom007, Zipporah (#103)
#105. To: robin (#103)
nd they detest having to pay a claim on a policy taken out only weeks before. Indeed, they often delay payment to investigate cases where immediate claims are made against brand new policies.
#106. To: Starwind (#100)
#107. To: tom007 (#105)
nd they detest having to pay a claim on a policy taken out only weeks before. Indeed, they often delay payment to investigate cases where immediate claims are made against brand new policies.
#108. To: Starwind (#100)
Yes, I understand that is your opinion. I briefly glanced at the video clips of Silverstein's statements. I understand the implications, I'd need to dig deeper into what is being alleged, though I don't think I will take the time at prersent, I have other priorities and the conspiracy theories often are baseless at bottom.
#109. To: robin (#103)
Not true, there were others mentioned in wikipedia besides the airline put options.
Put options were also purchased for Morgan Stanley Dean Witter,
Merrill Lynch & Co., with headquarters near the Twin Towers, saw a 1200% increase in put options bought in the four days preceding 9/11.
Munich Re, the world's biggest reinsurance company, was also examined. A reported $2.5 million in profits made trading options went unclaimed after 9/11.
Investigators from the U.S. Secret Service contacted a number of bond traders regarding large purchases of five-year Treasury notes before the attacks. Five- year Treasury notes are considered one of the best investments in the event of a world crisis.
Germany's central bank governor Ernst Welteke says there were signs of suspicious movements in oil and gold prices before the attack. [9]
You are not naive enough to think these types of biddings are run fairly are you?
#110. To: robin (#104)
#111. To: Zipporah (#108)
Sibel Edmonds and her FBI experience and what she's said about who is involved in 9/11 re Americans “drug trafficking, money laundering, foreign names and American names directly involved in the financing of the 9-11 attacks on WTC (World Trade Center) and the Pentagon.”
#112. To: tom007 (#111)
Sibel provides a provocotive look into to whole mess. She needs to be the new Attorney General.
#113. To: tom007 (#111)
#114. To: Starwind (#109)
#115. To: Zipporah (#108)
In The New Pearl Harbor, Griffin summarizes the work of other researchers who assert that elements of the US government were involved in the attacks on the Pentagon and the World Trade Center in New York City. He uses his training in logic to analyze the validity of their arguments.
#116. To: robin (#114)
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#117. To: robin (#114)
I'll ask a third time about building 7, Larry Silverstein said to "Pull it", this means to demolish the building. Why did he say that?
You perhaps overlooked my answer earlier, I don't know. But as I also said earlier, I don't accept his out of context quote and someone elses imputation of what he must have meant as self-evident fact sufficient to declare him a culprit in a conspiracy. I don't know the detailed circumstances of anyones 'story' on the WTC but I do know plausible from implausible regarding some of the business-related suspicions cited. Why were the only buildings left standing buildings not owned or leased by Larry Silverstein?
The govt refuses to investigate more, why?
IF some group within our govt did 9/11, do you really think they could not contrive NYC bidding at least as easily as Tony Soprano?
Let me ask you this, do you think Bush could have invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, crammed the Patriot Act down our throats, started the DHS, and illegally wiretapped on Americans, w/o 9/11?
#118. To: Starwind (#117)
I honestly don't believe they are anywhere near smart enough. I don't believe they would start out with 9/11 as "the plan".
#119. To: Starwind (#117)
I don't know. But as I also said earlier, I don't accept his out of context quote
#120. To: Zipporah (#118)
have you ever read the Northwoods document?
#121. To: Starwind, robin (#109)
Again options on what? when did they expire? for whom were they bought? When options expire without being exercised the profit is lost. Options that aren't "claimed" didn't get exercised, so how are "profits" on expired and unclaimed options determined, pray tell?
#122. To: tom007 (#121)
And the real question ??is, why would you try to obfuscate? and defend this evil explotive operation????
#123. To: Starwind (#120)
In his new exposé of the National Security Agency entitled Body of Secrets, author James Bamford highlights a set of proposals on Cuba by the Joint Chiefs of Staff codenamed OPERATION NORTHWOODS.
Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba [includes cover memoranda], March 13, 1962, TOP SECRET, 15 pp.
#124. To: Zipporah, Starwind (#123)
#125. To: robin (#124)
while Americans were still about to die in New Orleans, that's criminal, not incompetence. Forcing the victims out of the state, destroying their homes out from under them, that's criminal, not incompetence.
#126. To: Zipporah, Starwind (#125)
#127. To: robin (#126)
I actually forgot Larry popped up in New Orleans after Katrina.
#128. To: Zipporah (#127)
#129. To: Starwind (#117)
I honestly don't believe they are anywhere near smart enough. I don't believe they would start out with 9/11 as "the plan". I'm willing to believe they botched the detection, prevention, and reaction so badly (ala Katrina) that a lot of really bad decisions were made and covered up.
#130. To: Kamala, ALL (#129)
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