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Title: Loose Change 2nd Edition on Google Video
Source:
Google Video
URL Source: http://video.google.com/videoplay?d ... 581991288263801&q=loose+change
Published: Jan 27, 2006
Author: Dylan Avery/Louder Than Words production
Post Date: 2006-01-27 13:22:46 by valis
Keywords: Edition, Change, Google
Views: 3077
Comments: 156
An ARG reader has noticed that Google Video is now hosting a streaming version of For those who have seen it, this link serves as a handy reference. For those who have not, after viewing, you’ll probably want to pick up a copy or two.
Loose Change 2nd edition (hopefully with Dylan Avery’s permission)
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#1. To: Zipporah, Jethro Tull, christine, robin, Itisa1mosttoolate, TommyTheMadArtist, OKCSubmariner, Uncle Bill, swarthyguy, lodwick, Kamala (#0)
... (Please let me know if you want on or off of my flag list) cheers :: 4um's 'ARG List' :: Awoken Research Group ::
Most excellent. I thank you!
hey thanks valis.. I wanted to watch this I read that it's much better than the first!
thanks!
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." ~Hermann Wilhelm Göring
Commentary on the video by Thompson..
FYI.. remember KDM and what he tried to say about the Pentagon attack? Watch this video.. very interesting ..
I just downloaded and watched the whole video. It is nothing less than amazing. I strongly suggest that everyone on this forum download it and share it with everyone they know. By the way, be warned. There is a message at the very end of the video that states the following: Under section 802 of the USA Patriot act (H.R. 1362), any person or persons found in possession of this information can be held under "Domestic Terrorism" and detained without trial at Guantanamo Bay. You are encouraged to distribute this digital video disc to friends, family and complete strangers before it is too late to do so. Any public performance, unauthorized copying or distribution via the internet is strongly encouraged.
- valis
#2. To: valis (#0)
#3. To: valis, *9-11* (#0)
#4. To: valis (#0)
#5. To: Dakmar, Hunter Thompson ping (#1)
#6. To: siagiah (#0)
#7. To: valis (#1)
 | Gold and silver are real money, paper is but a promise. |
#8. To: valis (#1)
please keep me on you ping list- thanks.
#9. To: OKCSubmariner (#8)
It's interesting to say the least. Oddly enough, it's just like the Alex Jones Video.
 | What's that Mr. Nipples? You want me to ask the nice lady about her rack?. |
#10. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#9)
At this point in time I can put everyone into one of three camps: Those who understand that 9/11 was an attack on the public by our government, those who are too stupid to figure it out, and those who are willing shills for those who did it.
| Gold and silver are real money, paper is but a promise. |
#11. To: valis, All (#0)
I will be buying a copy as soon as more are available. Mark
#12. To: Kamala (#11)
you can download it from the source link
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
#13. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#12)
Be aware that it is a 410 meg download, and once the authorities have tagged you as having downloaded it you will have incriminated yourself as being an official "enemy of the state". You won't have a problem with the people who created it, since they want it to be as widely distritbuted as possible. You will have a problem with the Homeland Security people, since it contains information that makes you a criminal if you have it. Be warned. On the other hand, everybody is a criminal nowadays anyway. You could sit in room and do nothing more than breathe, and you'd be a criminal. There are so many laws on the books nowadays that they can't even tell you how many laws there are, but of course if you plead ignorance they'll tell you "ignorance of the law is no excuse". They can't even tell you how many laws there are that you have no right to be ignorant of, but they can arrest you for breaking any one of them that they decide you've broken. Welcome to tyranny.
| Gold and silver are real money, paper is but a promise. |
#14. To: Elliott Jackalope (#13)
if you been there they got you already, you don't have to download it.
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
#15. To: Elliott Jackalope (#10)
Which would you rather believe? Wackos piloted planes into the World Trade Center, Or your leaders are traitors, and created this situation with help from the CIA, FBI, and possibly the Mossad? When you think about it, logically, you want to believe that it was just wackos. You don't want to believe that your leaders are traitors. You do not want to believe that there are people in your government so evil and vile that they have absolutely no feeling one way or another about the carnage that they cause. I've seen a lot of things in my life. I do not believe for one minute that a small group of wackos pulled this off. Not when you have soooooo many coincedences. It's a big enough lie that hijackers hijacked planes and flew them, but when you couple that with how many other convenient details, pretty soon it ceases to be 19 guys getting lucky on their own. You don't have 20 guys getting together for an attack like this without major funding, and major help. When you get right down to it, how many people do you know that can keep a secret? More importantly, people should look to see what demolition companies went belly up, and or disappeared after 9-11. Take a look at that, and you'll see probably who was responsible for the destruction of the towers.
| What's that Mr. Nipples? You want me to ask the nice lady about her rack?. |
#16. To: Elliott Jackalope (#13)
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
#17. To: Elliott Jackalope (#10)
I think I'm going to start my own demolition business. Instead of using fancy shaped charges and precisely timed explosives, I'll offer my new, unique way of imploding old high rise buildings whose owners want them leveled to make way for new construction. I'll show up around 9:00AM, set a few small fires and by 5:00PM the whole building will fall straight down onto it's own footprint. Guaranteed to work on buildings up to and above 47 stories! I'll make a fortune. And to think that businesses have been paying perfectly good money to those sissy demolition companies with their over-rated C4 when a little gasoline and a pack of matches work just as well. And hey, fire....pretty....!
At this point in time I can put everyone into one of three camps: Those who understand that 9/11 was an attack on the public by our government, those who are too stupid to figure it out, and those who are willing shills for those who did it.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" like wrinkles in your duct tape.
#18. To: valis (#0)
How do you save this thing to disk? Also, how can I burn it to a DVD?
| What's that Mr. Nipples? You want me to ask the nice lady about her rack?. |
#19. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#15)
I know.. how people continue to believe otherwise is beyond me.. common sense says otherwise..
You don't have 20 guys getting together for an attack like this without major funding, and major help. When you get right down to it, how many people do you know that can keep a secret? More importantly, people should look to see what demolition companies went belly up, and or disappeared after 9-11. Take a look at that, and you'll see probably who was responsible for the destruction of the towers.
#20. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#18)
If you check out the Google page the link goes to, you'll see a button in the upper right corner that says "download", and has some options to choose from. The default is "Windows/Mac", and that gets you an avi file that begins downloading when you hit the "download" button. As far as how to burn that to a DVD, you have multiple options depending on your platform. However, the file size is less than the capacity of a standard burnable CD, let alone a DVD, so your best option probably involves making a "Video CD". Part of this depends on what you plan to watch this on, if it's a computer then no problem, if you really want to make it conform to the DVD standard you've got a bit of work ahead of you.
| Gold and silver are real money, paper is but a promise. |
#21. To: Ziporah (#0)
The only downloadable video I find are: http://www.loosechange911.com/trailer.wmv (which doesn't mention put options) http://video.google.com/videogvp/LooseChange2ndEditio.gvp?docid=- 5137581991288263801 (which doesn't actually download anything - just a 1kb file) What did you have in mind?
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#22. To: Elliott Jackalope (#13)
What do they think they can do to me. Screw 'em, they can kill ya but they can't eat ya. That's against the law. ROTFLMAO!
Be aware that it is a 410 meg download, and once the authorities have tagged you as having downloaded it you will have incriminated yourself as being an official "enemy of the state". You won't have a problem with the people who created it, since they want it to be as widely distritbuted as possible. You will have a problem with the Homeland Security people, since it contains information that makes you a criminal if you have it. Be warned.
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
#23. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#15)
all i need to know is NORAD stood down for 45 or more minutes. uh huh. that would happen had it not been an inside job.
#24. To: Starwind (#21)
Not the trailer..The video itself. The video mentions put options.. I think it's within the first 1/2 hour ..
#25. To: Zipporah, Starwind (#24)
Yes, I'm watching it now, about 16 minutes into it.
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." ~Hermann Wilhelm Göring
#26. To: robin (#25)
Good stuff..
#27. To: robin (#25)
Please take notes on whatever is said about "put options", when, what stock...
Yes, I'm watching it now, about 16 minutes into it.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#28. To: SKYDRIFTER, 82Marine89 (#0)
take a look...
#29. To: Itisa1mosttoolate, SKYDRIFTER, ALL (#16)
Loose Change is very much like Eric Hufschmidt's Painful Deceptions which I still think is the best 911 video.
#30. To: Starwind (#27)
I can't get the video to play, but I'm guessing they're talking about United Airlines: Suppressed Details of Criminal Insider Trading Lead Directly into the CIA’s Highest Ranks
Please take notes on whatever is said about "put options", when, what stock...
We've been challenged, and we've risen to those challenges. We've climbed the mighty mountain. I see the valley below, and it's a valley of peace. - W
#31. To: Starwind (#27)
ps: i meant the video this thread is based on, there is no video in the article i just linked
We've been challenged, and we've risen to those challenges. We've climbed the mighty mountain. I see the valley below, and it's a valley of peace. - W
#32. To: Elliott Jackalope (#13)
Exactly. SO up theirs. Download the puppy and send it far and wide. They're the criminals, not us.
On the other hand, everybody is a criminal nowadays anyway. You could sit in room and do nothing more than breathe, and you'd be a criminal.
#33. To: Dakmar (#30)
drats. i wonder why that is. it started playing for me as soon as i hit the link.
I can't get the video to play
#34. To: christine (#33)
it's working now, back in a few...
We've been challenged, and we've risen to those challenges. We've climbed the mighty mountain. I see the valley below, and it's a valley of peace. - W
#35. To: christine (#33)
I downloaded to my Mac, and QuickTime would not play it. However, I also have VLC (Video Lan Client) software, which is freeware, and that played it just fine. So I suggest trying different programs to play it. See if you can find VLC for your platform (Windows, I suppose, if you're a masochist) and try playing it with that.
| Gold and silver are real money, paper is but a promise. |
#36. To: Elliott Jackalope (#35)
I think it's the best player really.. better clarity for one thing.. and it has a lot of options that Media player and other dont have.
VLC
#37. To: Starwind (#27)
On 9/6/2001 United Airlines - 4 times the normal amount - 3,150 On 9/7/2001 Boeing - 5 times the normal amount - 27,294 On 9/10/2001 American Airlines - 11 times the normal amount - 4,516 Also stuff on Larry Silverstein, 6 weeks before 9/11/2001.
Please take notes on whatever is said about "put options", when, what stock...
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." ~Hermann Wilhelm Göring
#38. To: robin, starwind (#37)
September 6-10, 2001: Suspicious Trading of Put Option Contracts on American and United Airlines Occur A. B."Buzzy" Krongard. Suspicious trading occurs on the stock of American and United, the two airlines hijacked in the 9/11 attacks. “Between 6 and 7 September, the Chicago Board Options Exchange [sees] purchases of 4,744 put option contracts [a speculation that the stock will go down] in UAL versus 396 call options—where a speculator bets on a price rising. Holders of the put options would [net] a profit of $5 million once the carrier's share price [dive] after September 11. On September 10, 4,516 put options in American Airlines, the other airline involved in the hijackings, [are] purchased in Chicago. This compares with a mere 748 call options in American purchased that day. Investigators cannot help but notice that no other airlines [see] such trading in their put options.” One analyst later says, “I saw put-call numbers higher than I've ever seen in ten years of following the markets, particularly the options markets.” [Associated Press, 9/18/01; San Francisco Chronicle, 9/19/01] “To the embarrassment of investigators, it has also [learned] that the firm used to buy many of the ‘put’ options ... on United Airlines stock was headed until 1998 by ‘Buzzy’ Krongard, now executive director of the CIA.” Krongard was chairman of Alex Brown Inc., which was bought by Deutsche Bank. “His last post before resigning to take his senior role in the CIA was to head Bankers Trust—Alex Brown's private client business, dealing with the accounts and investments of wealthy customers around the world.” [Independent, 10/14/01] 
People and organizations involved: Deutsche Bank, American Airlines, Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System, Chicago Board Options Exchange, United Airlines 
We've been challenged, and we've risen to those challenges. We've climbed the mighty mountain. I see the valley below, and it's a valley of peace. - W
#39. To: Arete, BTP Holdings, Eoghan, Zoroaster, wbales, BrianS, Jethro Tull (#38)
ping
We've been challenged, and we've risen to those challenges. We've climbed the mighty mountain. I see the valley below, and it's a valley of peace. - W
#40. To: Dakmar (#38)
Weird: "Deutsche Banc Alex Brown, the American investment banking arm of German giant Deutsche Bank, as the investment bank used to purchase at least some of the options." The same source told the newspaper, "Investors have yet to collect more than $2.5 million in profits they made trading options in the stock of United Airlines before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." Unusual trading in the stocks of companies that were tenants in the World Trade Center: Morgan Stanley; Dean Witter & Co. (An investment bank that had occupied 22 floors in the World Trade Center) The Independent of London reported that "In the first week of September, an average of 27 put option contracts was bought each day" for shares of Morgan Stanley. "The total for the three days before the attacks was 2,157." ---Independent, 10/14/01 ******************* Wasnt Morgan Stanley the firm that employed Indira Sangh.. the whistleblower re PROMIS?
#41. To: valis (#0)
Bout halfway through, is a great presentation of the real material.
"Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially-induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear." -- General Douglas MacArthur
#42. To: tom007 (#41)
what part are you referring to?
#43. To: tom007, christine (#41)
What I liked is that they showed a variety of info using logic, engineering, follow the $$, historical stuff (Northwoods), tracing pilots, passengers, possible scenarios; all with supporting newsreels, quotes, audio clips, video, & interviews.
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." ~Hermann Wilhelm Göring
#44. To: Dakmar (#38)
Thanks Dak. I think I'm suffering from information overload at the moment.
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." ~Hermann Wilhelm Göring
#45. To: robin (#43)
Same here.. it wasnt like the first video.. mainly physical evidence.. This video was much better because of the way it presented all you mentioned.
What I liked is that they showed a variety of info using logic, engineering, follow the $$, historical stuff (Northwoods), tracing pilots, passengers, possible scenarios; all with supporting newsreels, quotes, audio clips, video, & interviews.
#46. To: christine (#42)
O - Just saying I'm about halfway through the video.
"Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially-induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear." -- General Douglas MacArthur
#47. To: Zipporah (#45)
The narration is well done too.
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." ~Hermann Wilhelm Göring
#48. To: robin (#47)
It really was and I'm glad they included the Northwoods document in detail.. for that was what first made me question 9/11.. it was that document.. that was the beginning.
The narration is well done too.
#49. To: Zipporah (#48)
I seem to require being told things several times before they really sink in. I heard about Northwoods before, but honestly didn't know what all the chatter was about until watching this.
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." ~Hermann Wilhelm Göring
#50. To: robin (#49)
Someone sent me the link from the GWU National Security Archives to the document.. I printed it out and read it.. I was absolutely shocked when I read it.. Total parallel. I seem to require being told things several times before they really sink in. I heard about Northwoods before, but honestly didn't know what all the chatter was about until watching this.
#51. To: Elliott Jackalope (#13)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't they whisk you away without arresting you, telling you what you are being charged with, or letting anyone know they snatched you in the first place? You just become another statistic for the missing persons list... So why even worry about knowing the laws?
They can't even tell you how many laws there are that you have no right to be ignorant of, but they can arrest you for breaking any one of them that they decide you've broken. Welcome to tyranny.
Don't force feed me your views... talk to me so I can hear you...
#52. To: all (#49)
Any way you look at it the towers came down from the top. The other controlled demos go down from the bottom. That buildings should go down upon them selves isn't suprising, as buildings are empty boxes of air. I'm darn sure not saying something is amiss here, but these are my observations.
"Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially-induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear." -- General Douglas MacArthur
#53. To: Dakmar (#38)
Yeah, Buzzy had his fingers in the pie somewhere along the line. What does this say? It says if the CIA had anything whatsoever to do with 9-11, you can bet Bush the Elder knew exactly what was coming. And the financing of global terror is definitely in the repertoire of the Bush Crime Family. This would also include the Saudis and Zionists, though the Zionists are still considered to be competitors of a sort. The money power is the main link.
A. B."Buzzy" Krongard.
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
#54. To: tom007 (#52)
it looks to me like they come down from the bottom--like any controlled implosion or demolition. remember the implosion of the murrah building in okc? it came down the same way as did building 7. is it peter jennings in that one clip who says, "anybody whose ever watched a building demolished on purpose knows that if you're going to do this you have to get at the under infrastructure to bring it down." ?
#55. To: BTP Holdings (#53)
This is from Sep 19, 2001: The Chicago Board Options Exchange said yesterday that it is looking into an unusual spike in trading in two airline stocks in advance of last week's terrorist attacks. As reported in The Chronicle, options trading in the stocks of the parent companies of American and United airlines was unusually heavy in the three trading days prior to the attack. That activity is the focus of an international investigation in the United States and several other countries that is trying to determine whether people with advance knowledge of the attacks sought to profit from the trading. Four American and United planes, along with their crew and passengers, were hijacked on Sept. 11. Three were used in the terrorist attacks against the twin towers of the World Trade Center and against the Pentagon. The fourth crashed in rural Pennsylvania. Both airlines' stocks fell precipitously when trading resumed on Monday, with shares of UAL, the parent of United, dropping 43 percent, and shares of AMR, the parent of American, dropping 39 percent. Both recovered slightly yesterday, with UAL rising $1.49 to close at $18.99, and AMR rising $2, to close at $20. The Chicago Exchange, the largest options market in the nation and the board on which United options are officially listed, experienced volume eight times its normal levels in the trading of UAL Corp. put options on the Friday before the attack. The purchaser of a put contract is guaranteed the right to sell a specific amount of shares at a specified price by a certain date. The purchaser profits from the deal when the share price drops lower than the agreed sale price. Lynn Howard, the exchange's chief spokeswoman, said, "As is usual, CBOE is conducting an investigation of trading prior to the news event." Howard declined to elaborate on the specific nature of the inquiry. Sources who have agreed to speak on condition of anonymity say government investigators are also looking at the trades. Exchange officials and market markers in San Francisco refused to discuss the inquiry. On the day before the terrorist attack there was a spike of 25 times the normal levels in the trading ratio of UAL put options, with larger-than- average volume coming through the Pacific Exchange. Dale Carlson, a vice president of the Pacific Exchange, refused to comment on whether an inquiry is taking place there in the trading of put options on UAL or any other security. A floor broker with TFM Investment Group, the market maker in UAL options at the Pacific Exchange, also refused to comment.
New scrutiny of airlines options deals
We've been challenged, and we've risen to those challenges. We've climbed the mighty mountain. I see the valley below, and it's a valley of peace. - W
#56. To: christine (#42)
I watched the thing all the way through. One thing stuck in my mind. Flight 93's phone calls, but the most important thing, was the fact that they stated the plane landed in Ohio, all the passengers diembarked and went to the NASA hangar. I guess a smart person would go there, armed with luminol and a few of those lights, and see what REALLY happened to the passengers of Flight 93. Either that, or they were sent to another planet via space aliens.
| What's that Mr. Nipples? You want me to ask the nice lady about her rack?. |
#57. To: christine (#54)
I am confused by this. From what I see, the towers come down starting from the top stories and colapse from there onto the lower floors.. Seems pretty clear from the multiple videos. The top floors collapsed before the lower ones - that's what I see.
it looks to me like they come down from the bottom-
"Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially-induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear." -- General Douglas MacArthur
#58. To: tom007 (#57)
The top floors collapsed before the lower ones - that's what I see. Right and if you watch as it was shown on the video as each floor collapsed explosions were seen on lower floors..
I am confused by this. From what I see, the towers come down starting from the top stories and colapse from there onto the lower floors.. Seems pretty clear from the multiple videos.
#59. To: tom007 (#57)
For more detail on the explosions go to this film 9/11 Eyewitness: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3498980438587461603&q=9%2F11+eyewitness
#60. To: tom007 (#57)
i guess a better description is, to me, it looks as if the source of the collapse comes from the bottom as with any controlled demolition. i don't believe there is any way that the heat from the fire in those upper floors could possibly collapse the buildings straight down in that manner. it would have burnt out and the damage would have been restricted to those top floors. i recommend watching 'Painful Deceptions'. you can watch it here-- http://question911.com/. Eric Hufschmidt shows the contruction of the buildings in great detail. there is absolutely no way the fire alone could have brought them down.
#61. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#56)
does that hangar still exist? did he say? and if it does, i doubt seriously that they would let "a smart person" in there with luminol and a few of those lights. like he said in the video, we'll most likely never know what happened, but we do know what didn't happen.
I guess a smart person would go there, armed with luminol and a few of those lights, and see what REALLY happened to the passengers of Flight 93.
#62. To: Zipporah (#59)
Off sub, what was that http://XXXbuddada.com site you posted a week or so ago? Had a guy doing the ukalale that I need to watch again. If you please.
"Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially-induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear." -- General Douglas MacArthur
#63. To: All (#62)
OMG it's a hot link, I am not going there - it was something like sublime Buddada (memo to self, think before using "xxx" as a cipher on the web)was to link a video, IIRC.
at http://XXXbuddada.com
"Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially-induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear." -- General Douglas MacArthur
#64. To: tom007 (#62)
I dont recall! .. It was a video?
Off sub, what was that http://XXXbuddada.com site you posted a week or so ago? Had a guy doing the ukalale that I need to watch again. If you please.
#65. To: Zipporah, christine (#64)
Yes - maybe Christine, you internet divias get confused in my neolithic mind.
dont recall! .. It was a video?
"Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially-induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear." -- General Douglas MacArthur
#66. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#12)
I`ll buy it. The work is great and should be rewarded. Mark
#67. To: christine (#23)
The drills that had been run for weeks prior, helped to confuse the controllers involved. Everyone knew that the planes were "hijacked" but no fighters were scrambled for over 40min, and then when they were, they were flown out of a far air force base, and were not even flying supersonic to get there. Mark
#68. To: Zipporah (#48)
I forget what year it was, either 2000 or 2001, the Pentagon had a mock, computer, model, paper terrorist drill that had a airliner crashing into the Pentagon. There is somewhere on the internet the picture and info with a plane inside the ring, smashed up, with military officials standing around. Mark
#69. To: Kamala (#68)
Hmm I dont recall if that photo was in the video or not..
I forget what year it was, either 2000 or 2001, the Pentagon had a mock, computer, model, paper terrorist drill that had a airliner crashing into the Pentagon. There is somewhere on the internet the picture and info with a plane inside the ring, smashed up, with military officials standing around.
#70. To: tom007 (#52)
As the explosions continued, the top started to go, and the core was completely taken out, and the towers fell back into, pretty much there own footprint. Every floor didn't need to be rigged, if you watch closely, about every 5-10 floors are being blown as it was a top down demo. A couple months prior, CDI practiced on two giant abandoned watertowers in NY. No reason was ever given for the destruction of these watertowers. Mark
#71. To: christine (#60)
WTC 7 was a classic bottom up demo. It had the crimp and everything. Pools of molten iron and steel were found at all three sites, which is a dead give away of explosives. Mark
#72. To: Starwind (#21)
The google video site is a little confusing. If you download the google video player and click the link to download the video, it will download all of it to a folder that the video player sets up on your computer. The player itself and it's install program seem harmless enough. In XP, mine was defaulted at my documentsmy videosgoogle videos. It also saves the video in google's video format (.gvi), so if you are having trouble finding the folder you can search your hard drive for all files under that extension. However I don't know if that format can easily be converted to avi or mpeg for burning to a video cd or dvd.
(which doesn't actually download anything - just a 1kb file)
Nothing says "poor workmanship" like wrinkles in your duct tape.
#73. To: tom007 (#52)
As to WTC 1 & 2 that's the way I see it, too (top down). WTC 7 was without doubt controlled (went from bottom up).
Any way you look at it the towers came down from the top. The other controlled demos go down from the bottom.
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#74. To: Zipporah (#69)
http://www.mdw.army.mil/news/news_photos/Contingency_Planning_Photos.html Mark
#75. To: Kamala (#74)
Good lord.. thanks for the link... rather revealing to say the least..
#76. To: Kamala (#67)
ah! i had forgotten that. thanks, mark.
#77. To: tom007 (#65)
here's the redo with a different narrator of Painful Deceptions, tom. i've not seen this yet myself.
#78. To: Kamala, tom007 (#70)
ah ha. there's the difference then between 7 and 1 and 2.
Every floor didn't need to be rigged, if you watch closely, about every 5-10 floors are being blown as it was a top down demo.
#79. To: Dakmar, Zipporah, Robin (#55)
Zipporah, here from Dakmar's article is a brief and correct explanation of put options: Statement Concerning SEC Terrorist Attack Trading Investigation Washington, D.C., July 22, 2004 52; The National Commission On Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (the 9-11 Commission) has submitted its final report, which includes its review and conclusions concerning whether any trading in the United States securities markets was based on advance knowledge of the September 11 attacks. The United States Securities and Exchange Commission cooperated fully with the 9-11 Commission and provided information based on the following actions. On Sept. 12, 2001, the Securities and Exchange Commission began an investigation to determine whether there was evidence that anyone who had advance knowledge of the terrorist attacks on September 11 sought to profit from that knowledge by trading in United States securities markets. In the course of that review, we did not develop any evidence suggesting that anyone who had advance knowledge of the September 11 attacks traded on the basis of that information. In the course of our investigation, we examined more than 9.5 million securities transactions that took place during the weeks preceding September 11. Along with the New York Stock Exchange, NASD, the American Stock Exchange, the Chicago Board Options Exchange, the Pacific Exchange, and the Philadelphia Stock Exchange, we reviewed trading in securities and derivative products of 103 companies in six industry groups with trading in seven markets. We also reviewed trading in 32 exchange traded funds and broad and narrow indices. In addition to working with the exchanges and NASD, we worked with criminal law enforcement authorities, including the Department of Justice and the FBI, as well as our regulatory counterparts in the U.S. and abroad. Finally, we sought and obtained information from the legal and compliance departments at securities firms and other financial institutions to determine whether any unusual trading activity had been observed by their staffs in the period prior to Sept. 11, 2001. http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2004-98.htm The SEC announced yesterday that following an extensive investigation it began the day after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the U.S., it had found no evidence suggesting that anyone who had advance knowledge of the September 11 attacks traded on the basis of that information. The SEC stated that in the course of its investigation, it examined more than 9.5 million securities transactions that took place during the weeks preceding September 11; reviewed trading in securities and derivative products of 103 companies in six industry groups with trading in seven markets; and reviewed trading in 32 exchange traded funds and broad and narrow indices. As discussed in this Chicago Tribune article, reports emerged shortly after the terrorist attacks that in the days leading up to Sept. 11, "some traders placed unusually large bets for stock prices to fall at several firms, particularly for the parent companies of United and American Airlines, whose planes were hijacked and used in the attacks. That prompted speculation that some people who knew about the attacks also had sought to make a quick buck." The article notes that immediately following Sept. 11, shares of UAL dropped 43 percent and shares of AMR fell 39 percent, and that potential profits from the UAL options trading alone were more than $4 million. According to the SEC's investigation, which was incorporated in the just- released report of the bipartisan 9/11 Commission, each trade had "an innocuous explanation." The commission report stated that a U.S. institutional investor "with no conceivable ties to Al Qaeda" bought 95 percent of UAL put options on Sept. 6 as part of a trading strategy that also saw it buy shares of AMR, and a sharp climb in AMR put options volume on Sept. 10 resulted from a recommendation in an options-trading newsletter. The purchaser of a put contract is guaranteed the right to sell a specific amount of shares at a specified price by a certain date. The purchaser profits from the deal when the share price drops lower than the agreed sale price.
And here is some background I looked up on the state of the SEC's investigation: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 2004-98
http://slw.issproxy.com/securities_litigation_blo/2004/07/ July 23, 2004 SEC Finds No Suspicious Trading in Advance of Sept. 11 Attacks
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf 130. Highly publicized allegations of insider trading in advance of 9/11 generally rest on reports of unusual pre-9/11 trading activity in companies whose stock plummeted after the attacks. Some unusual trading did in fact occur, but each trade proved to have an innocuous explanation. For example the volume of put options - investments that payoff only when a stock drops in price - surged in the parent companies of United Airlines on September 6 and American Airlines on September 10 - highly suspicious trading on its face. Yet further investigation has revealed that the trading had no connection with 9/11. A single US-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95% of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also include buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10. Similarly much of the seemingly suspicious trading in American on September 10 was traced to a specific US-based options trading newsletter, faxed to its subscribers on Sunday, September 9, which recommended these trades. These examples typify the evidence examined by the investigation. The SEC and the FBI, aided by other agencies and the security industry, devoted enormous resources to investigating this issue, including securing the cooperation of many foreign governments. These investigators have found that the apparently suspicious consistently proved innocuous. [...snip...]
It is conceivable the SEC/FBI conclusions regarding the unusual pre-9/11 trading in AMR & UAL are truthful, and yet much else in 911 commission report can still be false.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#80. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#77)
tommy, if you have time, can you watch Painful Deceptions linked above? i'd like to get your opinion on which you think is better between it and 'Loose Change'.
#81. To: Starwind (#79)
The SEC announced yesterday that following an extensive investigation it began the day after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the U.S., it had found no evidence suggesting that anyone who had advance knowledge of the September 11 attacks traded on the basis of that information. The SEC stated that in the course of its investigation, it examined more than 9.5 million securities transactions that took place during the weeks preceding September 11; reviewed trading in securities and derivative products of 103 companies in six industry groups with trading in seven markets; and reviewed trading in 32 exchange traded funds and broad and narrow indices. Hmm considering the number of trades and specifically involving the airlines that were used in the attack and that the trades took place very close to 9/11, does this seem plausible?
July 23, 2004 SEC Finds No Suspicious Trading in Advance of Sept. 11 Attacks
#82. To: Starwind (#79)
I went back and reread this and a couple of things.. "it had found no evidence suggesting that anyone who had advance knowledge of the September 11 attacks traded on the basis of that information" and also from the Commission Report: " A single US-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95% of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also include buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10. " Now this #1 makes the assumption that al Qaeda committed the acts.. so what the Commission Report is saying then, if the investors who purchased the put options in question had no ties with al Qaeda then they were eliminated from scrutiny?
#83. To: Zipporah (#81)
Assuming the SEC/FBI reporting is truthful, yes it is plausible. Daily, if not hourly, traders seek to exploit some perceived advantage in information and to profit on what they think they know. We often don't know these trades were made, much less learn if they made or lost money. 9/11 was unique in that it provided the context in which some trades related to airlines (and perhaps Wall Street real estate?) could be suspicious. By contrast, insider trading pre-9/11 in soybean futures would not be suspect because of no perceived connection. But if a freighter mysteriously sunk at sea ostensibly carrying soybeans to China (but alleged to also carry suitcase nukes for delivery to al Qaeda) then suspicions might be aroused to investigate shipping company trades and perhaps soybean trades. In the specific case of AMR and UAL, the investigation alleges (plausibly) a single institution was responsible for most of the trades, betting on a fall in UAL stock price and a rise in AMR stock price. These trades were likely executed through several trading firms (who inturn might front-run additional trades - illegally) to mask the identity of the trader and the tactic being used - that is normal when big trades are being made. It would seem in this case the trade likely busted. The trader bet that UAL would fall (it fell, so likely a gain) but that AMR would rise (it fell too, so likely a loss) - how it all net out wasn't reported. I could easily imagine someone like Carl Icahn attempting this.
Hmm considering the number of trades and specifically involving the airlines that were used in the attack and that the trades took place very close to 9/11, does this seem plausible?
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#84. To: Starwind (#83)
The trader bet that UAL would fall (it fell, so likely a gain) but that AMR would rise (it fell too, so likely a loss) - how it all net out wasn't reported. I could easily imagine someone like Carl Icahn attempting this. Okay thanks for taking the time to explain this.. clarifies some things for me. And I wont ask who Carl Ichahn is, I'll do a search.. :P
9/11 was unique in that it provided the context in which some trades related to airlines (and perhaps Wall Street real estate?) could be suspicious. By contrast, insider trading pre-9/11 in soybean futures would not be suspect because of no perceived connection. But if a freighter mysteriously sunk at sea ostensibly carrying soybeans to China (but alleged to also carry suitcase nukes for delivery to al Qaeda) then suspicions might be aroused to investigate shipping company trades and perhaps soybean trades.
#85. To: orangedog (#72)
Do you know/recall if there is an install-time option to put video in a user- specified folder, and if you move a google video to some other folder (other than the default) will the google player re-play it, or will it only replay from its default folder? Naturally to download the video, communication with google's website is expected. But after a video has been downloaded, if you replay a video (say, a second time a day or so later) does the google video player require to again communicate with the google website, for example, perhaps to verify that your saved copy is legitimate and you have a 'right' to replay it? Do you have a firewall that notifies you of unexpected or unauthorized attempts to "call home to the mother ship"? Do you know, if someone emails you a copy of a google video, will your google video player play it, or might it complain that you're not the rightful owner or that you didn't download that copy yourself? Yes, I'm being lazy :) By asking you, I'm hoping to save myself trouble and irritation with Google's flavor of "digital rights management" as well as their brain-dead inflexibilty in how their products install & run.
If you download the google video player and click the link to download the video, it will download all of it to a folder that the video player sets up on your computer.
The player itself and it's install program seem harmless enough.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#86. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#56)
here's one for your 'you gotta be shittin' me" list. Rudy Guilliani 'we were told the world trade center was going to collapse in 10 or 15 minutes'.. now if this was such a shock.. unexpected.. how did they know #1 it was going to collapse and #2 when? http://media.putfile.com/Ruldolph-you-got-some-splanin-to-do
#87. To: Starwind (#79)
a bit off topic, but still the same crooks, from a very long article I thought you might find of interest:
We've been challenged, and we've risen to those challenges. We've climbed the mighty mountain. I see the valley below, and it's a valley of peace. - W
#88. To: Starwind (#79)
But they give no details, just blanket statements. Those are the juvenile and bully tactics being used. No explanation, just patent unsubstantiated statements despite all the facts refuting that statement.
Some unusual trading did in fact occur, but each trade proved to have an innocuous explanation. For example the volume of put options - investments that payoff only when a stock drops in price - surged in the parent companies of United Airlines on September 6 and American Airlines on September 10 - highly suspicious trading on its face. Yet further investigation has revealed that the trading had no connection with 9/11.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales
#89. To: Dakmar (#87)
Thanks Dakmar. I'd forgotten about BCCI - So much corruption, so little disk space.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#90. To: robin (#88)
Agreed, there are insufficient verifiable details for one to reach their own conclusion independantly. But the explanation is plausible, at least to me. I'm not sure to what "facts refuting that statement" you refer. There are many unsubstantiated suspicions by many in the trading business, yes. But their suspicions are no more substantiated fact than are TBR News Staff's allusions to "in-house memos now circulating" which is likewise unsubstantiated and unverifiable, but again plausible, at least to me. I wish it were different. I'd like to see images of timestamped, signed photocopy's with letterheads, watermarks etc. But sadly neither source provides sufficient verifiable details to reach conclusions on our own (or at least on my own). Not the SEC/FBI, nor TBR. If we're to avoid being mislead, in any direction by anyone, we ought to at least be consistent in where we set the bar for substantiation.
But they give no details, just blanket statements. Those are the juvenile and bully tactics being used.
No explanation, just patent unsubstantiated statements despite all the facts refuting that statement.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#91. To: Starwind (#90)
This NationalReview article is only looking for ties to al-Qaida and proves there are none, end of story. CIA EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR "BUZZY" KRONGARD MANAGED FIRM THAT HANDLED "PUT" OPTIONS ON UAL Lucky Larry WTC destroyed, a multi-billion insurance compensation consoles Larry Silverstein
Was There Another 9/11 Attack on Wall Street?
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales
#92. To: robin (#91)
The NRO article seems a rehash (plus enough speculation & anecdote to fill out an article for publication) of what the SEC concluded. I don't see why you cited it. The 'supressed details of criminal insider trading' adds no facts to what either the SEC concluded or to what NRO commented, but it does confuse the aggregate statistics of options and stocks together, not bothering itself with the realities of what positions any given trader took and how they profited or lost. The SEC concluded that the bulk of the UAL put options (a short position) and 115,000 shares of AMR (a long position) were traded by one institution. What Rupert ignores (or doesn't know) is that these short and long positions offset each other and since both UAL & AMR fell in the aftermath of 9/11, the institution's trade doesn't look very smart or 'insiderish' - it looks frankly normal and unprofitable. Also as options have an expiration date (which was not disclosed) it is not obvious from which date profits/losses should be calculated. So, for news articles to speculate that as of Sept 29th "profits had gone uncollected" (as if they were an unclaimed lottery ticket) is plainly uninformed. Lastly, the piece about Silverman is clearly grinding the anti-jewish/zionist axe more than anything else and presumes much not in evidence about the liability and payout provisions of the lease and insurance agreements, which IIRC the insurance companies have yet to payoff - a risk Silverman takes. Silverman's deal was valued at $3.2B pre-9/11. Silverman may get about $1.1B in insurance payouts. After the $616M he owes the Port Authority up front he keeps maybe $500M. Given his rental property is destroyed it is looking like he gets maybe $500M from insurers to split with his partners but loses $2.7B in future rental profits he will never see from his 99-year lease on now destroyed property. And we don't know what money he might owe the Port Authority ongoing under the lease, but I would guess the lease probably has 'Force Majeure' provisions which let him off the hook. Regardless, not very smart money management one expects from an 'insider'. I daresay if the NY Port Authority had leased the WTC to anyone but a Jew we wouldn't be hearing about it.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#93. To: Starwind, robin (#92)
No I totally disagree.. I dont care if he's jewish or Latvian.. What brought questions about Silverstein are the following: I daresay if the NY Port Authority had leased the WTC to anyone but a Jew we wouldn't be hearing about it.
#94. To: Starwind (#92)
I mentioned why, it was only looking to prove that terrorists did not make $$ from the put options.
The NRO article seems a rehash (plus enough speculation & anecdote to fill out an article for publication) of what the SEC concluded. I don't see why you cited it.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales
#95. To: Zipporah (#93)
Yes, well the "National Journal" has a decidedly different slant: I won't pretend to know the truth about WTC 6 & 7. I did say the SEC/FBI findings on the suspicious insider 'put options' were plausible to me and could be truthful even though the rest of the 9/11 Commission Report could be false. But I don't see were any of this speculation about Silverstein proves or disproves the 'put option' suspicions. My point above in post #90 to robin was about the inability to substantiate independently. I don't see where either the accusers or defenders have made that possible and I choose to take any/all of it with considerable salt. Don't confuse "plausible" with "self-evident" - they are not the same.
No I totally disagree.. I dont care if he's jewish or Latvian..
Whenever so many wonderful people of the Jewish faith come together and celebrate their deserved fortune, Daniel Liebeskind must never be missed out.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#96. To: robin (#94)
That was the SEC/FBI's point - whoever was the institution making those suspicious trades, they likely didn't profit and they had presumed AMR's stock price would move in the opposite direction (up) of UAL's (down) - terrorist or no.
I mentioned why, it was only looking to prove that terrorists did not make $$ from the put options.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#97. To: Starwind (#92)
I disagree, if his name had been "Marvin Bush", he still would be considered very "lucky". The timing is what is suspect. WTC was built with taxpayer $$. We are the losers. His 99 year lease and the amazing purchase of "terrorist insurance" less than 2 months before 9/11 is remarkable. And how did he manage to obtain this 99 year lease? That deserves more investigation. Also, "Painful Deceptions" goes further and discusses how as the owner of building 7, he told the fire dept to "pull it" or demolish it. Every controlled demolition takes weeks to prepare, yet they managed it in a few hours. **************************************** Many theorists turn to the activities of the stock market and finance to highlight claims of foreknowledge. * Larry Silverstein, backed by a number of investors, signed a 99-year lease for the World Trade Center complex seven weeks before the World Trade Center was destroyed in 2001. Silverstein already owned 7 World Trade Center which was also destroyed in the attack. Silverstein was awarded an insurance payment of more than three and a half billion dollars in settlement. In addition, the Silverstein group sued the insurers liable for the World Trade Center for another three and a half billion dollars. They claimed that according to their contract the two planes constituted two separate terrorist attacks. Most of the insurers prevailed in a trial (Silverstein was never granted an additional $2.3 billion in extra insurance money as a result) while others are still in litigation. * Following the attack, Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman Harvey Pitt said the SEC was examining all unusual trading activity of stocks most severely affected by the Sept. 11 attacks. [5] o The most notable reference to the stock market is the report of a high volume of put options being purchased in the days before 9/11 on both American and United Airlines. The number of put options purchased was more than six times higher than normal. CNN reported in September of 2001 that the industry had been on unstable ground throughout the year, and there were a number of put option spikes well before the attacks.[6]. o CNN reported that "Between August 10 and September 10, the NYSE says short sales of UAL Corp. increased 40 percent, American parent AMR Corp increased 20 percent, and aircraft manufacturer Boeing Corp. increased 37 percent. [7] o Put options were also purchased for Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, which occupied 22 stories in the World Trade Center. o Merrill Lynch & Co., with headquarters near the Twin Towers, saw a 1200% increase in put options bought in the four days preceding 9/11. o Munich Re, the world's biggest reinsurance company, was also examined. A reported $2.5 million in profits made trading options went unclaimed after 9/11. Insider trading is said to have also occurred in several other countries immediately before the attacks of Sept. 11. o Investigators from the U.S. Secret Service contacted a number of bond traders regarding large purchases of five-year Treasury notes before the attacks. Five-year Treasury notes are considered one of the best investments in the event of a world crisis. [8] o Germany's central bank governor Ernst Welteke says there were signs of suspicious movements in oil and gold prices before the attack. [9] o To date, no concrete evidence has yet been provided for anything sinister in these transactions; US intelligence agencies are known to monitor markets for signs of imminent untoward events. * On September 10 Amr "Anthony" Elgindy, an Egyptian-born financial analyst tried to liquidate his children's $300,000 trust account. Although this report doesn't indicate US involvement, Assistant U.S. Attorney Ken Breen has stated that this could have indicated foreknowledge of the attacks. [10]
Lastly, the piece about Silverman is clearly grinding the anti-jewish/zionist axe more than anything else and presumes much not in evidence about the liability and payout provisions of the lease and insurance agreements, which IIRC the insurance companies have yet to payoff - a risk Silverman takes.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales
#98. To: robin (#97)
But if you're going to allege Silverstein planned the destruction of the WTC, you've got to explain how he pulled it off 3 months after winning the right to buy it (and why would be helpful as well). If you're going to allege he planned the destruction of only buildings 6 & 7, you've got to explain how he set that up within hours of the towers going. Occam's razor - he didn't know. He's your garden variety Jewish NY real estate mogul, not bent on killing and conspiring against the American people. I'd like to be such a loser. The Port Authority wished to sell the WTC (it being a target for attacks, such as those in 1993, made it an insurance liability). But the WTC was built in 1973 for about $750M of the taxpayers money ( World Trade Center). So when it was sold to Silverstein in 2001 for $3.2B including a lease on the land for $116M/year, the taxpayers netted a profit of about $2.5B up front, so they weren't losers, were they. No, they did quite well off Mr. Silverstein ('course I'm sure NYC didn't actually rebate a dime to any taxpayer - but they did unload the insurance liability). 99 years is a very standard lease term for real estate. Further, Silverstein was outbid by a larger group, Vornado Realty Trust of Paramus, N.J, but when talks with Vornado fell thru, Silversteins group came to the fore ( Silverstein Properties and Westfield win $3.2B World Trade Center lease). So he 'managed' to get the 99-year lease by paying more than the next guy and giving up more than the next guy. Silverstein bought the WTC buildings but he did not buy the land under them. The land is what the 99-year lease is for, and while I don't know the details, apparently Silverstein is still required to pay on the land lease. So he was squeezed between not having any buildings to rent out and owing on the land lease. Lastly, I don't know what you consider to be an "amazing purchase of terrorist insurance" but consider that the WTC had already been the repeated target of terrorist attacks. I can't imagine anyone in Silverstein's consortium (or anyone's for that matter) putting up money without insurance, including terrorism coverage, and it very likely was a condition of sale set by the Port Authority. The rest of the Wikipedia article are more variations on the "suspicious trades" already discussed. Additional references don't make them anymore suspicious or substantiated. Factual proof of a particular trade, OTOH, would be most welcomed.
I disagree, if his name had been "Marvin Bush", he still would be considered very "lucky". The timing is what is suspect.
The timing was set by the Port Authority as the bidding process went on their schedule. Several groups bid. Silverstein's bid was 2nd or 3rd and not being considered. The strongest group (Brookfield) had the lowest bid but to avoid appearance of favoritism, negotiations began with the top $$ bidder (Vornado) who later broke off negotiations and only then did Silverstein's bid get acted on. To the extent the top bidders fell out, yes, then Silverstein was lucky. WTC was built with taxpayer $$. We are the losers.
His 99 year lease and the amazing purchase of "terrorist insurance" less than 2 months before 9/11 is remarkable. And how did he manage to obtain this 99 year lease? That deserves more investigation.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#99. To: Starwind (#95)
I can't be held responsible for what the National Journal's spin is.. I'm not disputing the put options without some further evidence.. but I did post a couple of links that puts Silverstein under some suspicion IMO..
#100. To: Zipporah (#99)
Certainly not. My criticism of anti-jewish/zionist axes being ground was directed at them, not you or robin. Yes, I understand that is your opinion. I briefly glanced at the video clips of Silverstein's statements. I understand the implications, I'd need to dig deeper into what is being alleged, though I don't think I will take the time at prersent, I have other priorities and the conspiracy theories often are baseless at bottom. Rest assured, I don't believe the governments version. But neither do I believe the conspiracy theories.
I can't be held responsible for what the National Journal's spin is..
but I did post a couple of links that puts Silverstein under some suspicion IMO..
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#101. To: Starwind, robin (#100)
The government's versions ARE conspiracy therories. Any way a impartial observer cuts it, The governments versions are conspiracy theories.
Rest assured, I don't believe the governments version. But neither do I believe the conspiracy theories.
#102. To: Starwind (#98)
The land is not for sale, never.
lverstein bought the WTC buildings but he did not buy the land under them.
#103. To: Starwind (#98)
Not true, there were others mentioned in wikipedia besides the airline put options. o Put options were also purchased for Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, which occupied 22 stories in the World Trade Center. o Merrill Lynch & Co., with headquarters near the Twin Towers, saw a 1200% increase in put options bought in the four days preceding 9/11. o Munich Re, the world's biggest reinsurance company, was also examined. A reported $2.5 million in profits made trading options went unclaimed after 9/11. Insider trading is said to have also occurred in several other countries immediately before the attacks of Sept. 11. o Investigators from the U.S. Secret Service contacted a number of bond traders regarding large purchases of five-year Treasury notes before the attacks. Five-year Treasury notes are considered one of the best investments in the event of a world crisis. [8] o Germany's central bank governor Ernst Welteke says there were signs of suspicious movements in oil and gold prices before the attack. [9] ******** The timing was set by the Port Authority as the bidding process went on their schedule. Several groups bid. Silverstein's bid was 2nd or 3rd and not being considered. The strongest group (Brookfield) had the lowest bid but to avoid appearance of favoritism, negotiations began with the top $$ bidder (Vornado) who later broke off negotiations and only then did Silverstein's bid get acted on. To the extent the top bidders fell out, yes, then Silverstein was lucky. Oh and how did that happen? You are not naive enough to think these types of biddings are run fairly are you? And in NYC? Give me a break. You are looking at this backwards. IF 9/11 was a pre-planned Pearl Harbor type attack, then the person who won the bid is significant. He also just happened to already own building 7, which as I pointed out to you he told the fire dept to "Pull it" which means to demolish it. (And you never replied to the fact that it takes weeks to prepare, but the building came down in hours and then the official explanation was that it fell from the fires (which is baloney, they were small). The penthouse fell first and it was stories from the small fires in building 7. It was no doubt a demolition.) You should watch both videos. "Loose Change" also brings up all the gold bars that were stored at WTC. Any building that was not owned by Silverstein Properties strangely remained upright. Plus Silverstein got a break on taxes, and he ended up with plenty of money. The World Trade Center is a gold mine. And Larry Silverstein knows it. Silverstein already owned number Seven WTC, but he led a consortium that just months ago signed a new $3.2 billion US, 99-year lease on the WTC complex. That was the first time the WTC had changed hands in it's thirty year history. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey signed the deal with the Silverstein-led Westfield America on the 26th April, 2001. Westfield America leased the concourse mall, and Silverstein the office portion. The deal was finalized and celebrated on the 23rd July -just seven weeks before almost the entire complex was destroyed. Port Authority officers gave a giant set of keys to the complex to Silverstein and to Westfield CEO Lowy. Silverstein was ecstatic at that time. "This is a dream come true," he had said. "We will be in control of a prized asset, and we will seek to develop its potential, raising it to new heights." An ironic choice of words, in retrospect. The leased buildings included Numbers One and Two (the Twin Towers), Four, Five and 400,000 square feet of retail space. The Marriott Hotel (3WTC), U.S. Customs building (6WTC) and Silverstein's own 47-story office building were already under lease. Despite the transfer to private hands, the tax payments would still come from the Port Authority -who had been making yearly $25 million payments in lieu of taxes to New York City. The proper figure should be more like $100 million according to city administrators. Silversteen is undeterred by the demolition of the complex. He already has somewhat insensitive plans to rebuild. Four towers this time. Although the complex was not insured against an act of war, new policies insured against terrorist damage. Which leaves everybody financially consoled, even if not emotionally so. The vendors still have the $3.2 billion they made on the sale. The purchasers lease deal had spanking new insurance --with new beneficiaries-- for capital value and loss of income. Silverstein has insurance money to rebuild and get the $110 million of annual rental income flowing again. Or double that with his planned four towers. Nice money if you can get it. Can he? Not if the insurers could help it. They are the big losers. And they detest having to pay a claim on a policy taken out only weeks before. Indeed, they often delay payment to investigate cases where immediate claims are made against brand new policies.
The rest of the Wikipedia article are more variations on the "suspicious trades" already discussed.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales
#104. To: tom007, Zipporah (#103)
ping to my post to Starwind.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales
#105. To: robin (#103)
Wonder why that is.?
nd they detest having to pay a claim on a policy taken out only weeks before. Indeed, they often delay payment to investigate cases where immediate claims are made against brand new policies.
#106. To: Starwind (#100)
I sure wish that you could view Painful Deceptions here.
#107. To: tom007 (#105)
Wonder why that is.? They aren't stupid or they would not be in business long. All of the debris was removed (by the same company that removed the OKC debris) quickly, which for a crime scene is a crime. I wonder what the insurance company learned; we'll never know. nd they detest having to pay a claim on a policy taken out only weeks before. Indeed, they often delay payment to investigate cases where immediate claims are made against brand new policies.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales
#108. To: Starwind (#100)
Rest assured, I don't believe the governments version. But neither do I believe the conspiracy theories. Hmm baseless at the bottom? I dont automatically believe everything that those who doubt the official conspiracy theory allege..that is why I asked for your input for I dont have enough knowledge to make a judgement. I think it's a matter of looking at evidence .. based on facts and irrefutable and circumstantial evidence. IMO Prof David Ray Griffin gives the most succinct analysis of the issues re 9/11 .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ray_Griffin There are several things that just does not and cannot fit in the official conspiracy theory here are just a couple: 1) How is it possible the WTC bldgs collapsed? The official theory of course is that it was due to fire but has been refuted many times by scientists although of course Popular Science did a piece on this and was more than ridiculous. 2) If you do in fact believe the official theory on the first 2 WTC blgs how is it possible the 3rd bldg collapsed? 3) Indira Singh (did IT work for JP Morgan Chase and Interoperability Clearinghouse ..Singh was contracted to develop A.I. risk managing programs re fraud in banking systems/the market and one of the s/w programs she looked at was PTECH) That being said.. Singh said PTech, BMI, Geneva Capital and the other companies interrelated were not only laundering money illegally to terrorist groups.. 4) Sibel Edmonds and her FBI experience and what she's said about who is involved in 9/11 re Americans “drug trafficking, money laundering, foreign names and American names directly involved in the financing of the 9-11 attacks on WTC (World Trade Center) and the Pentagon.”
Yes, I understand that is your opinion. I briefly glanced at the video clips of Silverstein's statements. I understand the implications, I'd need to dig deeper into what is being alleged, though I don't think I will take the time at prersent, I have other priorities and the conspiracy theories often are baseless at bottom.
#109. To: robin (#103)
Alright then, put options for what exactly, when did they expire, and for whom MSDW or clients of MSDW? And was MSDW acting a counterparty, offsetting/hedging against the put options purchased by others, or were they trading for their own account? Ditto for Merrill Lynch. Again options on what? when did they expire? for whom were they bought? When options expire without being exercised the profit is lost. Options that aren't "claimed" didn't get exercised, so how are "profits" on expired and unclaimed options determined, pray tell? How large? Several billion dollars worth are traded daily. The US markets and economy was already plunging rapidly into fall of 2001. What large purchases stood out in that climate? LOL - when isn't the price of gold and oil being manipulated? There is not enough fact to prove or disprove these suspicions (anybody can suspect anything, and apparently they do) independently of having to accept someone elses finding. If I saw a conspiracy theory that actually addressed the reality of how options, stocks bonds, etc are traded normally and then showed what was specifically different pre-9/11 and how the SEC was wrong, specifically, that woul dbe important. But repetition of old suspicions in absence of any thoughtful analysis isn't credible. Alright then lets start with your analysis of how the bidding should have gone, how Silverstein, the NY Port Authority, Brookfield, Vornado, etc all conspired to control the timing, the outcome, the price, setup the planes/missiles, whatever, and coordinated it all with the Pentagon and the airlines, the Likud, Mossad, etc, etc etc.
Not true, there were others mentioned in wikipedia besides the airline put options.
Put options were also purchased for Morgan Stanley Dean Witter,
Merrill Lynch & Co., with headquarters near the Twin Towers, saw a 1200% increase in put options bought in the four days preceding 9/11.
Munich Re, the world's biggest reinsurance company, was also examined. A reported $2.5 million in profits made trading options went unclaimed after 9/11.
Investigators from the U.S. Secret Service contacted a number of bond traders regarding large purchases of five-year Treasury notes before the attacks. Five- year Treasury notes are considered one of the best investments in the event of a world crisis.
Germany's central bank governor Ernst Welteke says there were signs of suspicious movements in oil and gold prices before the attack. [9]
You are not naive enough to think these types of biddings are run fairly are you?
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#110. To: robin (#104)
Also mine #108.. IMO what Singh had to say about PTech .. and what Singh said coincides with what Edmonds said to some in congress.. Also which is VERY odd.. AFTER the fact Ashcroft put a gag order on Edmonds.
#111. To: Zipporah (#108)
Zipporah posted on 2006-01-28 22:57:02 ET Sibel provides a provocotive look into to whole mess. She needs to be the new Attorney General.
Sibel Edmonds and her FBI experience and what she's said about who is involved in 9/11 re Americans “drug trafficking, money laundering, foreign names and American names directly involved in the financing of the 9-11 attacks on WTC (World Trade Center) and the Pentagon.”
#112. To: tom007 (#111)
Have you read much re Singh? There is a very interesting video on Snowshoefilms.com of her.. what she has to say is compelling.
Sibel provides a provocotive look into to whole mess. She needs to be the new Attorney General.
#113. To: tom007 (#111)
Also there is a blog that focuses on the Edmonds case.. it is very in depth and has done a lot of connecting the dots and investigative work. http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2005/12/sibel-edmonds-brewster-jennings_28.html
#114. To: Starwind (#109)
I'll ask a third time about building 7, Larry Silverstein said to "Pull it", this means to demolish the building. Why did he say that? Why were the only buildings left standing buildings not owned or leased by Larry Silverstein? There are many unanswered questions about put options, and they are suspicious. The govt refuses to investigate more, why? IF some group within our govt did 9/11, do you really think they could not contrive NYC bidding at least as easily as Tony Soprano? Let me ask you this, do you think Bush could have invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, crammed the Patriot Act down our throats, started the DHS, and illegally wiretapped on Americans, w/o 9/11?
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales
#115. To: Zipporah (#108)
Griffin is highly respected and his study and analysis of this New Pearl Harbor is done in a scholarly way.
In The New Pearl Harbor, Griffin summarizes the work of other researchers who assert that elements of the US government were involved in the attacks on the Pentagon and the World Trade Center in New York City. He uses his training in logic to analyze the validity of their arguments.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales
#116. To: robin (#114)
Robin, you're too nice to the Zyclon B victims...why is there no memorial in those dreaded camps for all the lice that died in this Holocaust?
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#117. To: robin (#114)
Obviously he screwed up and missed a couple. Perhaps they recognized the futility of it? Is there any proof that would, in your mind, exhonerate Larry Silverstein or the unamed institutional trader? I honestly don't believe they are anywhere near smart enough. I don't believe they would start out with 9/11 as "the plan". I'm willing to believe they botched the detection, prevention, and reaction so badly (ala Katrina) that a lot of really bad decisions were made and covered up. I'm sure there are liars on all sides of these issues, for various self-serving motives. Just because someone is attempting to disprove the government's theory, does not mean they are truthful about their own testimony. All the evidence, testimony, theories, whatever need to be scrutinized. Just like lies will found on all sides, so will a grain of truth be found here and there. And even some aspects of the government's version can be truthful while other aspects are not. But if you discard all of it out of hand simply because it is touted by the government, if you swallow everything simply because it disputes the government, you'll never find the truth. Life is rather more complicated than what Tony Soprano experiences. Yes I do. Never misunderestimate stupidity - his or ours (collectively).
I'll ask a third time about building 7, Larry Silverstein said to "Pull it", this means to demolish the building. Why did he say that?
You perhaps overlooked my answer earlier, I don't know. But as I also said earlier, I don't accept his out of context quote and someone elses imputation of what he must have meant as self-evident fact sufficient to declare him a culprit in a conspiracy. I don't know the detailed circumstances of anyones 'story' on the WTC but I do know plausible from implausible regarding some of the business-related suspicions cited. Why were the only buildings left standing buildings not owned or leased by Larry Silverstein?
The govt refuses to investigate more, why?
IF some group within our govt did 9/11, do you really think they could not contrive NYC bidding at least as easily as Tony Soprano?
Let me ask you this, do you think Bush could have invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, crammed the Patriot Act down our throats, started the DHS, and illegally wiretapped on Americans, w/o 9/11?
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#118. To: Starwind (#117)
One question.. have you ever read the Northwoods document?
I honestly don't believe they are anywhere near smart enough. I don't believe they would start out with 9/11 as "the plan".
#119. To: Starwind (#117)
Then maybe you should investigate a little. Watch the videos, search the net, check the links posted to you about it. There is a video of him speaking, there are quotes, he said it. Building 7 had some interesting tenants, our govt, as I posted to you also. Open your mind. The govt refuses to investigate more, why? Perhaps they recognized the futility of it? How absurd. I honestly don't believe they are anywhere near smart enough. I don't believe they would start out with 9/11 as "the plan". I'm willing to believe they botched the detection, prevention, and reaction so badly (ala Katrina) that a lot of really bad decisions were made and covered up. FEMA is not NSA/CIA. Let me ask you this, do you think Bush could have invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, crammed the Patriot Act down our throats, started the DHS, and illegally wiretapped on Americans, w/o 9/11? Yes I do. Never misunderestimate stupidity - his or ours (collectively). Also absurd. There had to be a really good reason. Why didn't we join the Allies in WWII until AFTER Pearl Harbor? This was planned in advance. At the time of the attack which destroyed the World Trade Center Dov Zakheim was the Comptroller of the Pentagon, appointed in May of 2001. Before becoming the Pentagon's money-manager, he was an executive at System Planning Corporation, a defense contractor specializing in electronic warfare technologies including remote-controlled aircraft systems Zakheim is a member of the Project for a New American Century and participated in the creation of its 2000 position paper Rebuilding America's Defenses which called for "a New Pearl Harbor".
I don't know. But as I also said earlier, I don't accept his out of context quote
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales
#120. To: Zipporah (#118)
No.
have you ever read the Northwoods document?
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#121. To: Starwind, robin (#109)
Answer yourself, Starwind???, "prey tell?". And the real question ??is, why would you try to obfuscate? and defend this evil explotive operation????. Starwind? Bull crapola not allowed in the answer??, Starwind??.
Again options on what? when did they expire? for whom were they bought? When options expire without being exercised the profit is lost. Options that aren't "claimed" didn't get exercised, so how are "profits" on expired and unclaimed options determined, pray tell?
#122. To: tom007 (#121)
Well I had hoped to put one over on you, but alas you are too shrewed for me. No biscuit tonight.
And the real question ??is, why would you try to obfuscate? and defend this evil explotive operation????
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#123. To: Starwind (#120)
This is what made me rethink 9/11: This document, titled “Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba” was provided by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, as the key component of Northwoods. Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake “Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington,” including “sink[ing] a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated),” faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a “Remember the Maine” incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage. Bamford himself writes that Operation Northwoods “may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government.” In his new exposé of the National Security Agency entitled Body of Secrets, author James Bamford highlights a set of proposals on Cuba by the Joint Chiefs of Staff codenamed OPERATION NORTHWOODS.
Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba [includes cover memoranda], March 13, 1962, TOP SECRET, 15 pp.
#124. To: Zipporah, Starwind (#123)
That's not possible Zip, the govt is too incompetent, Katrina proves it, according to Starwind. So then is al-Qaida and OBL more competent than our govt? Is that what he means? FEMA turning away flotillas of aid, trucks with water, that's criminal, not incompetence. The govt awarding Halliburton the cleanup contract 3 days after Katrina struck, while Americans were still about to die in New Orleans, that's criminal, not incompetence. Forcing the victims out of the state, destroying their homes out from under them, that's criminal, not incompetence. New Orleans is a MAJOR shipping port for oil, natural gas, etc. Here's the attitude that may have played a part in what is even now happening to the people of New Orleans. The President's mother on national television after Katrina:
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales
#125. To: robin (#124)
The President's mother on national television after Katrina: "And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she chuckles slightly) is working very well for them." Oh this wasnt incompetence just like Iraq isnt incompetence..it is purposeful IMO.. on both issues.. NOW why would they perhaps want to clear NO of the riff raff?.. Speaking of 9/11 and Larry Silverstein: while Americans were still about to die in New Orleans, that's criminal, not incompetence. Forcing the victims out of the state, destroying their homes out from under them, that's criminal, not incompetence.
#126. To: Zipporah, Starwind (#125)
I actually forgot Larry popped up in New Orleans after Katrina. Starwind the Scripture is "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Our nation is a huge prize, it is not surprising that there are evil ones who would devise schemes to control it. To be blind is not wise.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales
#127. To: robin (#126)
Actually it wasnt Silverstein himself.. just another person who made a mint from a disaster... the WSJ saw the parallel and called him the Larry Silverstein of NO.
I actually forgot Larry popped up in New Orleans after Katrina.
#128. To: Zipporah (#127)
Oh, that's it, thanks. His name did though, but they are really talking about Judah Hertz.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales
#129. To: Starwind (#117)
You have not done enough research on the events of 911. This is the most defining event for the US in our history. You should make more time, do more reading, and view some videos on the event. The criminals behind 911 are not some bumbling keystone government officials, this was planned 5-7 years in advance by deep government military agencies. Mark
I honestly don't believe they are anywhere near smart enough. I don't believe they would start out with 9/11 as "the plan". I'm willing to believe they botched the detection, prevention, and reaction so badly (ala Katrina) that a lot of really bad decisions were made and covered up.
#130. To: Kamala, ALL (#129)
Here is are some audio links of Indira Singh re 9/11 and terrorism.. important stuff: http://www.4acloserlook.com/realaudio/102805a-singh.ram
#131. To: Elliott Jackalope, Orangedog (#35)
I have VLC as well (on W2K Pro), but it won't play the stream, nor do I see what link is used to download without playing the entire video. From this page: Manually Download the video: Which works, but it is only a 659B file which VLC doesn't play either (it reports nothing to play). So, please, how did you download the video, from what link, did you do it without using Google's Player, and what version of VLC do you have? Thanks for any tips.
However, I also have VLC (Video Lan Client) software, which is freeware, and that played it just fine.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+change
http://video.google.com/videogvp/LooseChange2ndEditio.gvp?docid=- 5137581991288263801
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#132. To: robin (#114)
Let me ask you this, do you think PNAC could have invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, crammed the Patriot Act down our throats, started the DHS, and illegally wiretapped on Americans, w/o 9/11?
Let me ask you this, do you think Bush could have invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, crammed the Patriot Act down our throats, started the DHS, and illegally wiretapped on Americans, w/o 9/11?
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#133. To: Starwind (#131)
Maybe this will help:
#134. To: Zipporah (#133)
Thank you. Are you able to manually download the google LooseChange2ndEditio.gvp video file and play it with VLC, and what version/platform are you using, please? I have 8.4a but I'm running an 8.5 beta.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#135. To: Starwind (#131)
I have not seen this one myself, but this site is offering a free DVD, "Confronting the Evidence." http://Reopen911.org
#136. To: Starwind (#134)
Are you able to manually download the google LooseChange2ndEditio.gvp video file and play it with VLC, and what version/platform are you using, please? I have 8.4a but I'm running an 8.5 beta. When I opened the page the file automatically played.. so I didnt play this in VLC but.. here's some info that may help if you want to play it in VLC: "Google Video offers plenty of free videos to waste your time. Some are of extremely poor quality, some are pretty good. Some are amateur movies of kids joking about, some are about backyard birding. Unfortunately, downloading is not always that simple. If you try to download and watch a movie, Google wants you to install its video player. I wasn't sure I wanted that on my computer though, so I figured I would opt to “manually download the video”. Which only gave me a “.gvp” file. When I opened this in Wordpad, it turned out to simply be a file containing metadata on the movie, including a URL to download the movie from. That URL led me to an avi version of the movie, which I could then download and watch in my own version of vlc (I read somewhere that the Google player is based on vlc). So this could be a way to still watch unprotected movies while being offline. Downloading also has the benefit of a better picture quality, compared to watching it online, as streaming video. "
Thank you.
#137. To: Zipporah (#136)
Thank you. Back later.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#138. To: robin (#126)
Nice scripture for these days.
"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."
#139. To: wbales (#132)
PNAC, what a fun group. Yes, PNAC is closer than Bush.
"We don't need no stinkin' badges!" -Gold Hat, now starring Alberto Gonzales
#140. To: Starwind (#137)
You're welcome..
#141. To: Starwind (#137)
Don't wanna nag you, but can you also watch Painful Deceptions? It goes into detail that I think you will appreciate. ;)
#142. To: Starwind (#85)
You can change the target folder in preferences after the install. I didn't recall any directory options during the install. I copied the video to another directory after downloading it and was able to play it from there. Naturally to download the video, communication with google's website is expected. But after a video has been downloaded, if you replay a video (say, a second time a day or so later) does the google video player require to again communicate with the google website, for example, perhaps to verify that your saved copy is legitimate and you have a 'right' to replay it? Do you have a firewall that notifies you of unexpected or unauthorized attempts to "call home to the mother ship"? It would appear that hacking the google video site is the fulltime hobby of some people out on the net. Here is an interesting site:Google video downloader . Copy the url for the loose change video at the top of this thread, then paste it into the "Paste the link from Google and get the REAL link now:" box. It seems like the google video stuff has been violated like drunk prom date.
Do you know/recall if there is an install-time option to put video in a user- specified folder, and if you move a google video to some other folder (other than the default) will the google player re-play it, or will it only replay from its default folder?
Nothing says "poor workmanship" like wrinkles in your duct tape.
#143. To: christine, zipporah, robin (#141)
Ok, so I watched both "Loose Change 2nd Edition" and "Painful Deceptions" I'd recommend them to anyone who has little or no knowledge of the 9/11 controversy over who is responsible or culpable. However, to those of us familiar with the controversy, I don't see that either adds anything new to the debate. As I said earlier, I never believed the government's version and neither video added to that disbelief. Nor do I find any credibility in the claims that the option and stock trades demonstrate foreknowledge. Regardless, obviously someone had foreknowledge, as these were planned events and not pilot error, no matter who was piloting. Stock/option/bond trades are not required to establish proof of foreknowledge, and I (none of us) have the factual information of who conducted what trades so as to specifically identify who had foreknowledge. I'm sure the government had some knowledge immediately prior, but regardless of whether that was "picked up from chatter" or leaked, or received as a tip-off - it didn't come from market trades, and market trades aren't needed to establish that someone knew in advance. Of course someone knew, and there were undoubtedly "leaks" but to whom, and the bigger question is who planned 911 and why? I don't believe it was done to have an opportunity to go short on airline stocks or cash in an insurance policy (policies that weren't finalized at the time). Nor do I find anything new about Larry Silverstein's alleged involvment. I don't know why he said "Pull It" regarding building 7, it is curious, but were I on a jury knowing what little I do today, I would not convict. Everything else regarding Silverstein's involvment, seems standard business, albeit cutthroat business (we are talking multi-billion dollar NY real estate). As I said, I never accepted the government version. OTOH, the "planted shaped explosive, controlled demolition" theory, while the best explanation, doesn't for me answer the question of how all those charges (250 floors over some 3 buildings x dozens of columns) got planted and triggered without some building occupant catching on, or some "whistle blower" tip off. It's been suggested that radio receivers were used - I can't find info that anyone does that and I question the reliability of such a technique. Having watched a number of documentaries on controlled demolition, they're always drilling holes to get those charges positioned "just so", and then they run wires, and repeatedly check circuit continuity. I don't see how that was done in the months leading up to 9/11, regardless of who owned the buildings. Obviously, as agreed, some kind of explosive seems the best explanation, but the known techniques for planting them don't seem to apply. I've have wondered if some kind of gaseous or particulate explosive might have been pumped into the vents, elevators, core beams etc.... but I dunno. Obviously as the debris has been carted away, the government didn't want to find out. But then the government's story and invetsigation never held up anyway. As for motive. I don't believe it was money or gold as some theories would argue. While I didn't know about the" Northwood" stuff specifically, I'm not surprised as the geopolitical jousting by various spy organizations are always looking for ways to create a pretext or frame someone. I doubt ours are any different. But did our own government plan it, encourage it, allow it, or just fail to stop it, I don't know. I can imagine other ways to establish a pretext for war (especially if war is the forgone result) with far less complication than 911. But then I never said they were smart, rather I've argued the opposite. To point out all the fallacies of the government's story, and then simultaneously argue how clever the government is to have pulled it off while getting caught in a cover-up, seems to me contradictory.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#144. To: orangedog, Elliott Jackalope (#142)
Thanks much. Zipporah's trick in post #136 allows one to download an .avi file which can then be played with VLC.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#145. To: Starwind (#143)
objective review, i think. just out of curiosity, do you think one is better than the other?
#146. To: Starwind (#143)
Glad you took the time to watch the videos.. #1 RE Siverstein.. It seems to me that the put options and/or what he said about pulling the buildings point to fore knowledge.. even if you dont add in the put options debate, his statement was highly suspicious. Also re fore knowledge 'chatter'.. actually Indira Singh addresses this: On 9/11/2001, Indira worked for JP Morgan in a field called Risk Management, involving computer systems and programs designed to keep JP Morgan's entire information and financial structure safe. She had also worked with a Defense Advanced Research Project - DARPA-funded technology group, with close ties to the CIA. This provided her with contacts deep within the government and corporate America. She was working on a program for JP Morgan - the next generation of risk software - whose function was to think about all the information going on throughout the enterprise as bank business was being conducted worldwide. It would detect money laundering and other crimes in real time and then do something about it; perhaps alert an "intelligent" software agent or a person, or shutdown the transaction immediately. This capability could be accomplished by using an evolution of PROMIS software. FTW has extensively covered the PROMIS software controversy, the software stolen by the Justice Department from Inslaw which over the past two decades has evolved and merged with artificial intelligence. ************ "All the industry gurus recommended Ptech." Indira was unsure whether Ptech was right. After all, they were a small company, and with software this expensive you couldn't afford to choose wrong. But everywhere she looked boosted her confidence in Ptech, especially when viewing their list of prominent clients. The White House, Treasury Department (Secret Service), CIA, FBI, both houses of Congress, Air Force, Navy, Department of Energy, IRS, Booze Allen Hamilton, IBM, Enron and even NATO all used, and as of this writing, some still use Ptech software. IBM, a global strategic partner with JP Morgan, had selected Ptech for their Preferred Vendor program. All of this convinced Indira that Ptech was the right choice. After getting the extensive site clearance JP Morgan required, Indira invited Ptech to the premises for a one-day evaluation of their software. But according to Indira, everything was wrong that day. **************** With Ptech's people still in the office, Indira called Roger Burlton, who runs Business Process Renewal in Vancouver. Roger told Indira, "Don't let them out of your sight and don't let them leave with anything." ***************** Roger recommended Indira speak to Jeff Goins, a former Ptech employee. This is where Indira first heard of Saudi terror financier Yasin Al Qadi and that he had been (and may have continued to be) an investor in Ptech. Al Qadi said he met Dick Cheney in Jeddah before he became Vice President, and that they still maintain "cordial relations." Indira confirmed that Jeff had taken his concerns to the FBI. In short order, Indira was talking to the FBI agent Jeff had spoken with. ********** The FBI agent sent her a video produced by Joe Bergantino' for CBS in Boston, on Care International. "The people in the video that the FBI were looking for right after 9/11 were Ptech employees." Muhammed Mubayyid and Suheil Laheir, who were both Ptech employees, formerly worked for Care International. But this is not the Care everyone knows. This Care listed its corporate office in the same suite as Al Kifah's Boston office. Al Kifah was a Muslim organization whose Brooklyn office was named as the locus of the 1993 conspiracy to bomb the World Trade Center. Muhammed Mubayyid, who is still employed by Ptech and used to be the treasurer for Care, once made a donation to Al Kifah's Brooklyn office. We should not forget the FBI had completely infiltrated the terrorist cell responsible for the '93 bombing with Egyptian informant Emad Salem. The FBI had dropped him from their payroll right when the informant himself was designing the bomb used in the WTC bombing. #2 Regarding the planting of explosives.. There are some things that point to when it may have happened from Newsday:Heightened Security Alert Had Just Been Lifted " The World Trade Center was destroyed just days after a heightened security alert was lifted at the landmark 110-story towers, security personnel said yesterday." And this: WTC power down"I was pleased to read your article "The Official Version of 9/11 is a Hoax" ... Please note some other facts. My name is Scott Forbes and I still work for Fiduciary Trust. In 2001 we occupied floors 90 and 94-97 of the South Tower and lost 87 employees plus many contractors. On the weekend of 9/8,9/9 there was a 'power down' condition in WTC tower 2, the south tower. This power down condition meant there was no electrical supply for approx 36hrs from floor 50 up. I am aware of this situation since I work in IT and had to work with many others that weekend to ensure that all systems were cleanly shutdown beforehand ... and then brough[t] back up afterwards. The reason given by the WTC for the power down was that cabling in the tower was being upgraded ... Of course without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors and many, many 'engineers' coming in and out of the tower. I was at home on the morning of 9/11 on the shore of Jersey City, right opposite the Towers, and watching events unfold I was convinced immediately that something was happening related to the weekend work ... I have mailed this information to many people and bodies, including the 9/11 Commission but no-one seems to be taking and registering these facts. Whats to hide? Can you help publicise them?" And here is an interview of Forbes Scott Forbes Interview #3 IMO 9/11 was a pretext for war but that's just one piece of a much larger puzzle.. which has to do with the same people that were the prepetrators in the Iran contra conspiracy.
#147. To: christine (#145)
I try, though I have my preconceptions, like anyone else. I guess I really would have to recommend both, probably LooseChange 2nd Ed first, followed by Painful Deceptions. The production quality of LC2nd makes it visually/auditorially appealing and they give a good overview of all 3 events (WTC, Pentagon, Shanksville) and the graphics and animation are really good. But the details PD went into about the WTC construction, their greater reliance on actual photos (rather than graphics or animation), the details about the flight paths of flights 93 & 77 was more informative. However, because they used "real" footage, the grainy aspects of it require that one believe the narration when the visual is lacking. An example was a seismographic chart of tremors recorded when the Pentagon (IIRC) was struck and they showed the chart and said what times and magnitudes the chart showed, and frankly it was frustratingly illegible.
objective review, i think.
do you think one is better than the other?
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
#148. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#18)
Tommy you can find any program you want on bittorrent. You need to download some version of bittorrent. You can search about it on the web. Then search for what you want on this search engine http://www.isohunt.com you can also get every movie there too.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#149. To: A K A Stone, OKCSubmariner, tom007, christine, neil mciver, honway, zipporah, *You Gotta Be Shitting Me* (#148)
I was listening to talk radio, and it's been nothing but 9-11 this, and 9-11 that. The TV is full of the same crap over and over again. Today while driving I had this epiphone. About 7 years ago, I read an article in one of the local papers about why jerseys with the number 88 weren't being sold anymore. Just about everything I read, goes into this little library inside my head. The reason why this number is significant to the the so called White Power movement, is the Alphabet. A=1, b=2, c=3, d=4, e=5, f=6, g=7, and H=8. 88 is HH, and HH is short for Heil Hitler. Now I know I'm spinning something really stupid here, but there were people talking about how everyone expects an attack on or around the Superbowl. Well, Monday is February 6th, of 2006. 2-6-2006. 2+6=8. 2+0+0+6=8. So you get 88, Heil Hitler. Just a thought I had while listening to the propaganda of talk radio.
| What's that Mr. Nipples? You want me to ask the nice lady about her rack?. |
#150. To: All (#149)
On another thread. Coincedence??? 62= 6+2=8. Either that or synchronicity is raising hell with the world.
"We lost all contact with the ship shortly after it left the Saudi port," said one maritime official at Suez. Its last position on the radar screens was 62 miles from Dubah.
| What's that Mr. Nipples? You want me to ask the nice lady about her rack?. |
#151. To: Starwind (#143)
All floors were not rigged. Once the core was cut, the weight took care of the rest. About every 10 floors or so were rigged. There were plenty of "powerdowns" and "cablewiring" maintence carried out prior to the event. WTC 1 and 2 fell in less than 10 seconds and WTC 7 fell in around 6 seconds. All three had pools of melted iron and metal at their base. Girders had the signs of sulfication. These buildings were not brought down by some cheap dynamite charges you would see on some cartoon, thermite and thermate were used with some other charges. Pure intell/military operation. I know its hard to fathom the mindset of these murders, but their world, military, Zion, corporate vision, supercedes any humankind decency. Mark
#152. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#149)
I don't listen to these stations, perhaps I should, but I imagine their reason for pushing so hard on 9/11 is because until the sheeple understand that the official govt version of 9/11 is absurdly false, and understand why the govt created 9/11, they will continue to support this regime out of blind, misguided loyalty. I consider the moment I ceased to believe the govt's version of 9/11, a watershed moment, a true epiphany. At first I made excuses for the govt, then I said well, they just allowed it to happen. Finally I saw that they made it happen. That's when all the pieces lined up, that's when the dots began to connect, that's when I saw how truly evil they all are. It was facilitated by the release of news about Abu Ghraib, the serious crimes that were being committed. And so I too crossed that rubicon, leaving the GOP that I voted for my entire life, behind me.
I was listening to talk radio, and it's been nothing but 9-11 this, and 9-11 that.
Mr Rumsfeld said the emergence of populist leaders through elections in Latin American was "worrisome".
#153. To: TommyTheMadArtist, itisa1mosttoolate, Jethro Tull (#149)
oh my, Tommy...
#154. To: christine, TommyTheMadArtist (#153)
Now Tommy is a numerogist
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
#155. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#154)
Actually, I was seeing what kind of ridiculous rumor I could get started. Conspiracy theories start somewhere, might as well be me making something up. Then again... What happens if I'm right???
| What's that Mr. Nipples? You want me to ask the nice lady about her rack?. |
#156. To: Zipporah (#40)
BTTT
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