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Religion
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Title: Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'
Source: Netscape News
URL Source: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news ... 2&dt=20050315130200&w=RTR&covi
Published: Mar 15, 2005
Author: Reuters
Post Date: 2005-03-15 17:59:13 by Mr Nuke Buzzcut
Keywords: Cardinal, Blasts, Cheap
Views: 8313
Comments: 568

Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'

ROME (Reuters) - A top Catholic cardinal has blasted "The Da Vinci Code" as a "gross and absurd" distortion of history and said Catholic bookstores should take the bestseller off their shelves because it is full of "cheap lies."

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, in an interview with the Milan newspaper Il Giornale, became the highest ranking Italian Churchman to speak out against the book, an international blockbuster that has sold millions of copies.

"(It) aims to discredit the Church and its history through gross and absurd manipulations," Bertone, the archbishop of the northern Italian city of Genoa and a close friend of Pope John Paul told the paper in its Monday edition.

"This seems like a throwback to the old anti-clerical pamphlets of the 1800s," he said.

The central claim of the book, written by American Dan Brown, is that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had children. The Bible says Jesus never married, was crucified and rose from the dead.

Bertone's comments were significant because until the Pope named him archbishop of Genoa in 2003 he was for years the number two man at the Vatican's most powerful department - the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

"You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real," he said. "I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that."

HOLY GRAIL

A central storyline of the book is that the Holy Grail is not the cup which Christ is said to have used at the Last Supper but really the bloodline descended from Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Bertone calls this idea "a perversion."

Bertone is so incensed about the novel that he will be the key speaker at a roundtable in Genoa Wednesday night attempting to dismantle the book, which also accuses the Church of covering up the female role in Christianity.

"I will try to clear things up and help form consciences," the cardinal said.

"I think that when faced with affirmations that are so shameful and unfounded, readers who have even a minimum of basic (Christian) formation should react," he said.

He said it was "sad" that even Catholic bookstores were selling The Da Vinci Code "for purely economic reasons."

One bookstore selling "The Da Vinci Code" is the one in the Gemelli Hospital, a Catholic institution where the Pope spent a total of 28 days in two stints in February and March.

In the interview, Bertone firmly rejected the book's claim that the feminine role in Christianity had been suppressed.

"This is one of the most vulgar of inventions. The feminine element is present in all the Gospels," Bertone said.

Bertone also strongly defended Opus Dei, the conservative Church organization that the book depicts as a ruthless, Machiavellian group that resorts even to murder in its attempt to keep the Church's secrets hidden.

The novel is going to reach an even wider audience next year with the release of a film based on the book staring Tom Hanks.

© Copyright Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved. The information contained In this news report may not be published, broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of Reuters Ltd.

03/15/2005 13:02 RTR

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#140. To: rowdee (#136)

Moses was raised by the daughter of the Pharoah as a son of Pharoah. I suspect he would have been well educated. How about you?

The Bible says that Moses was trained in all of the Egyptian Sciences.

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   12:55:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#123)

Uhm, if you'd been paying attention, you would have noticed that I quite clearly stated that I believe the bible is wrapped around general historical events in history and that it is the supernatural claims and the dictatorial commandments about who/how man should worship that are ridiculously absurd.

You stated that the Bible was a "work of fiction."

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-16   13:19:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#131)

If one is going to be an honest christian, then one certainly must treat the gnostic gospels as important as the bible itself.

why? they died out, under persocution. The Bible didn't. The Bible has endured. how do you account for that?

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-16   13:21:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: Continental Op (#142)

The Bible has endured. how do you account for that?

The point of a sword, and mass market advertising?

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   13:24:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: rowdee (#135)

Every time I participate in one of these threads, my "bozo" number goes up, so I realize this is futile, but it's really not for anyone to judge my motives or intentions for playing.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   13:29:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: Samuel Gray (#143)

The point of a sword, and mass market advertising?

and there speaks your biased, uneducated mind. The Bible survived persocution from the Romans and Islamists, it's teachings were perverted by the Catholics, libeled by Atheists. Yet it still remains a book of moral and intellectual value with high recommendations from the Founding Fathers.

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-16   13:29:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: Continental Op (#145)

Read Adams or Jefferson sometimes, concerning Christianity. Jefferson wrote his OWN bible, deleting the miraculous references, and keeping the teachings of Jesus.

Adams declared the Cross to be an "engine of grief" to mankind.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   13:33:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#147. To: Samuel Gray (#146)

Read Adams or Jefferson sometimes, concerning Christianity. Jefferson wrote his OWN bible, deleting the miraculous references, and keeping the teachings of Jesus.

Adams declared the Cross to be an "engine of grief" to mankind.

"Read Adams or Jefferson sometimes, concerning Christianity."

I didn't mention Christianity did I?

"Jefferson wrote his OWN bible, deleting the miraculous references, and keeping the teachings of Jesus."

Jefferson was a philosopher, and his intent in publishing his own Bible was to distinguish the philosopy of Jesus Christ from the philosophy of Plato.

"I have always said that a studious perusal of the sacred volume will make better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands." -Thomas Jefferson.

In that context, he wasn't talking about HIS Bible.

"Adams declared the Cross to be an "engine of grief" to mankind."

Got a link? What you do you think he meant by that?

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-16   13:44:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: Continental Op (#147)

John Adams:

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"--John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson

"But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legaends, hae been blended with both Jewish and Chiistian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed.--John Adams in a letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816, _2000_Years_of_Disbelief_, John A. Haught

"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity." --John Adams

You can google it. I've used the quotations before.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   13:46:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: Samuel Gray (#148)

I agree with him completely. But I fail to find a condemnation of the Bible in his statements.

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-16   13:52:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#150. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut, All (#128)

the burden of proof is squarely upon the one making the affirmation of existence.

Counselor, this isn't a court of law. It's your decision to believe or not.

In the meantime, we have the First Amendment in this country. Freedom of Religion and all that? I can start a religion worshipping my right, big toe and I don't have to prove a thing.

Christianity and belief in Christ is much more established than my pretend church. Prove something? Yeah, right. In your dreams. Christianity is here and it will stay here. Sorry 'bout that. No, I'm not.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   13:55:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#151. To: Don (#150)

Sorry 'bout that. No, I'm not.

Me either Don.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   13:56:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: Continental Op (#145)

... it's teachings were perverted by the Catholics ...

Is it accurate to say that it was perverted by the Catholics? I have seen Bibles dating from 800 AD. There is one on display in Cork Ireland that dates from this period.

Given that this is serveral hundred years prior to Martin Luther, and given that the Roman Catholic Church decided which books to include in the Bible and which to toss, e.g., the book of Mary, wouldn't it be more accurate to say: "The teachings were selected and compiled by the Roman Catholic Church and later adopted unaltered by the protestant sects"?

crack monkey  posted on  2005-03-16   13:57:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: Samuel Gray (#148)

"Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God....What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be."- John Adams.

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-16   13:58:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#154. To: Don (#150)

Counselor, this isn't a court of law. It's your decision to believe or not.

In the meantime, we have the First Amendment in this country. Freedom of Religion and all that? I can start a religion worshipping my right, big toe and I don't have to prove a thing.

Christianity and belief in Christ is much more established than my pretend church. Prove something? Yeah, right. In your dreams. Christianity is here and it will stay here. Sorry 'bout that. No, I'm not.

And that brings us back to "My God can beat up your facts". Sigh.

Thus has it always been. Two camps of people yelling past one another.

I've already lost one friend today, I think I'll just leave it at that.

Believe/don't believe. I don't, you do. Tomato, TomAHto, potato, potAHto, let's call the whole thing off.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   13:59:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#155. To: Samuel Gray (#154)

And that brings us back to "My God can beat up your facts". Sigh.

I don't see it that way. I don't think that I have come close to saying anything that might even lead you in that direction. Belief or faith is simply that. And, it isn't nice to belittle people's faith. When it is done, people have to respond. As I said before, we have the first amendment in this country. Christianity is a religion and is protected under the Bill of Rights. That is a simple and straighforward fact. There are many people who do not believe in Christ. Fine. But, people who criticize Christ or Christians should expect a response from Christians. That is the bottom line.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   14:07:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#156. To: Samuel Gray (#154)

We can stop talking about the subject. I don't have a problem with that. Let's see if others have that same thought.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   14:09:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#157. To: Samuel Gray (#154)

And that brings us back to "My God can beat up your facts". Sigh.

I don't see it that way. I don't think that I have come close to saying anything that might even lead you in that direction. Belief or faith is simply that. And, it isn't nice to belittle people's faith. When it is done, people have to respond. As I said before, we have the first amendment in this country. Christianity is a religion and is protected under the Bill of Rights. That is a simple and straighforward fact. There are many people who do not believe in Christ. Fine. But, people who criticize Christ or Christians should expect a response from Christians. That is the bottom line.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   14:10:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#158. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#151)

Well, this day seems to be beat up on the Christians day. At least, the lions haven't been released yet.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   14:12:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#159. To: All (#157)

I am seeing two of the same posts now. How did the same post get posted twice. I hate these dumb Apple computers. I am at school now.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   14:13:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#160. To: Don (#158)

At least, the lions haven't been released yet.

I don't know about you, but I don't fear lions either. At least they go straigt for the jugular - making death quick and painless.

These two camps are never going to find common ground, and each tends to blame the other for today's/yesterday's woes (Science Community/Christian Community).

But like you, I will not be berated or belitteld for my beliefs. And I suppose, we should also not berate others for not believing. God did grant man free will.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   14:15:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#161. To: rowdee (#136)

The book is generally attributed by all theological scholars of various denominations to have been Moses.

Moses was raised by the daughter of the Pharoah as a son of Pharoah. I suspect he would have been well educated. How about you?

Indeed, most biblocal scholars attribute the book of genesis to Moses, but he is only the one that wrote them down, the stories themselves were older still, they were stories created by sheepherders. They were stories created by them to explain things that they did not understand, and to create a patriarchal society from a matriarchal one.

Which the Genesis stories do very well.

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-16   14:16:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#162. To: crack monkey (#152)

Is it accurate to say that it was perverted by the Catholics? I have seen Bibles dating from 800 AD. There is one on display in Cork Ireland that dates from this period.

I think you are refering to the Vulgate, a Latin Translation by St. Jerome. The Protestant King James Version of the Bible is not precisely the same, as it does not contain the Apocrapha for one. Was it accepted unaltered by Protestant sects? The Alterations in the varying translations are vast. Moreover, to whom will you entrust the power to determind what books of the Bible were forgeries, and which were genuine.

I must at this point, clarify my above post, when I wrote, "it's teachings were perverted by the Catholics," I was refering to doctrinal matter in answer to Mr. Gray supposition that the Bible was the root of wars, pestilences, and the dark ages

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-16   14:18:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#163. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#160)

each tends to blame the other for today's/yesterday's woes (Science Community/Christian Community).

Lions are no big deal. Four of them are living in my house now. At least, they think they are lions.

I don't blame science for today's woes. There is a spiritual warfare going on and science is only being used in it. The politicians themselves are only pawns.

Belittlement for believing in Christ is something which people should respond to. Christians are not second-class citizens for believing in Christ, nor are they dumb, illogical, or uneducated. And, that is something that the people who "know better" can't seem to understand.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   14:21:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#164. To: Don (#158)

Who needs Lions when we have Jael?

Christians eat their own now, if you don't believe exactly like another Christian, you are condemned to hell, right? LOL

Lions, we don't need no stinking lions, you guys eat each other.....

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-16   14:22:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#165. To: Aric2000 (#164)

you guys eat each other.....

In your dreams, Bud. In your dreams.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   14:23:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#166. To: Don (#163)

Belittlement for believing in Christ is something which people should respond to. Christians are not second-class citizens for believing in Christ, nor are they dumb, illogical, or uneducated. And, that is something that the people who "know better" can't seem to understand.

The only christians that I will place that label to would be literalist fundamentalists, which of course we have a few here.

Most Christians understand that Evolution is a scientific theory, and therefore not a threat to religion, others freak out, like the chuch of old.

We evolved, get over it, maybe god had something to do with it, maybe he didn't.

Maybe he created the universe and then walked away, and all religion is just wishful thinking. The earth is but an atom in a huge universe, and we are but tiny little electrons that mean nothing to the vastness of space. The only ones that think that we are important, are ourselves. Which is good, because that is a survival mechanism, built into us over billions of years.

But when literalists take the bible LITERALLY, they become ignorant savages, who would probably be happier in the middle ages, and if we had a time machine, I would be more then happy to send them there.

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-16   14:28:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#167. To: Aric2000 (#166)

First, you say evolution is a theory. Then, you say we did evolve.

A theory is not fact. Game over. Get used to it.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   14:29:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#168. To: Don (#165)

In your dreams, Bud. In your dreams.

Not in my dreams buddy, it's a fact, or did you miss Jael and her rants about how Catholics are all condemned to hell, and how if you don't believe exactly how she believes you also will go to hell.

Some of you claim to have the one true line to God, and then fight it out.

It is fun to watch to say the least.

If it were ACTUALLY the word of god, it would be INCAPABLE of being misinterpreted.

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-16   14:30:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#169. To: Aric2000 (#166)

What, you mean the earth is older than six thousand years? And the Ark had dinosaurs? (Google up "dinosaurs and Noah's ark" for a larf).

What about the 400 species of hummingbirds? Did he take some of each, Or did we have "fast forward" evolution from just the original two?

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   14:30:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#170. To: Aric2000 (#168)

Jael is a bad example of anything, let alone the God she purports to represent. I can almost see "Him" sitting with head in His Hand saying "Boy, I f**ked up when I made THAT one..."

The knife definitely turned in the Potter's Hand when he threw Jael on the wheel.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   14:32:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#171. To: Don (#167)

Poor Don, another that is clueless about what a "theory" in science actually is.

I call it willful ignorance, because it might make you question your faith, and can't have that, sheeple should NOT think for themselves, right Don?

ROFLMAO!!!

Evolution is a theory not a fact? ROFLMAO!!

You just keep repeating that.... but it won't make it true....

Poor Fundie, I feel for your ignorance, I really do....

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-16   14:32:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#172. To: Samuel Gray (#169)

What about the 400 species of hummingbirds? Did he take some of each, Or did we have "fast forward" evolution from just the original two?

He took 7 of the clean beasts and only 2 of the unclean ...

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   14:36:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#173. To: noone222 (#172)

He took 7 of the clean beasts and only 2 of the unclean ...

Ah. That cleared it right up. I'm going to stack and burn all my science books right now.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   14:45:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#174. To: Don, All (#163)

Belittlement for believing in Christ is something which people should respond to. Christians are not second-class citizens for believing in Christ, nor are they dumb, illogical, or uneducated. And, that is something that the people who "know better" can't seem to understand.

"E-fucking-zactly"

Many in our society today suffer from an extreme case of undeserved, self- imposed, intellectual arrogance that blinds them to the terrible limitations of their pea-brains. These self-described Einsteins, are in truth, mental midgets that think it's OK to Blaspheme God and His Word, while "championing" a (sub) human species that has been a blight upon humanity from its inception.

"Rich"

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   14:49:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#175. To: Samuel Gray (#173)

I'm going to stack and burn all my science books right now.

Great idea in your case ... all you'll miss are the pictures !

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   14:52:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#176. To: noone222 (#174)

"championing" a (sub) human species that has been a blight upon humanity from its inception.

You wanna spell that one out? C'mon, you know you do.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   14:56:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#177. To: noone222 (#175)

That's lame, even for you. You and Quantrill are birds of an ideological feather, aren't you? Do you get your sheets and hoods starched and pressed at the same place?

I'd say you were "philosophical" brethren, but the word means "lover of wisdom" and the light of wisdom has never darkened a corner of what passes for your brain.

I strongly suspect your brand of picture books are the kind you hold up w/ one hand while "stroking your ego" with the other.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   15:00:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#178. To: Samuel Gray (#176)

You wanna spell that one out?

It would only serve a purpose to do so for someone that can read. You don't qualify.

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   15:01:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#179. To: noone222 (#172)

He took 7 of the clean beasts and only 2 of the unclean ...

Did Noah take two of each species of bacteria? Did he take two even if the bacteria reproduced asexually? Where did he keep the bacteria? Did Noah and his family infect themselves with every disease in existence?

What about viruses? Did Noah collect two of each of these or are these not considered to be living things?

crack monkey  posted on  2005-03-16   15:02:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#180. To: Samuel Gray (#177)

I strongly suspect your brand of picture books are the kind you hold up w/ one hand while "stroking your ego" with the other.

I'm more inclined (and so are "many others" on this forum) to believe that you have described your own book collection ... and your own "ego"

and we will never be "brethern"

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   15:05:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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