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Religion
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Title: Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'
Source: Netscape News
URL Source: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news ... 2&dt=20050315130200&w=RTR&covi
Published: Mar 15, 2005
Author: Reuters
Post Date: 2005-03-15 17:59:13 by Mr Nuke Buzzcut
Keywords: Cardinal, Blasts, Cheap
Views: 7276
Comments: 568

Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'

ROME (Reuters) - A top Catholic cardinal has blasted "The Da Vinci Code" as a "gross and absurd" distortion of history and said Catholic bookstores should take the bestseller off their shelves because it is full of "cheap lies."

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, in an interview with the Milan newspaper Il Giornale, became the highest ranking Italian Churchman to speak out against the book, an international blockbuster that has sold millions of copies.

"(It) aims to discredit the Church and its history through gross and absurd manipulations," Bertone, the archbishop of the northern Italian city of Genoa and a close friend of Pope John Paul told the paper in its Monday edition.

"This seems like a throwback to the old anti-clerical pamphlets of the 1800s," he said.

The central claim of the book, written by American Dan Brown, is that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had children. The Bible says Jesus never married, was crucified and rose from the dead.

Bertone's comments were significant because until the Pope named him archbishop of Genoa in 2003 he was for years the number two man at the Vatican's most powerful department - the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

"You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real," he said. "I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that."

HOLY GRAIL

A central storyline of the book is that the Holy Grail is not the cup which Christ is said to have used at the Last Supper but really the bloodline descended from Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Bertone calls this idea "a perversion."

Bertone is so incensed about the novel that he will be the key speaker at a roundtable in Genoa Wednesday night attempting to dismantle the book, which also accuses the Church of covering up the female role in Christianity.

"I will try to clear things up and help form consciences," the cardinal said.

"I think that when faced with affirmations that are so shameful and unfounded, readers who have even a minimum of basic (Christian) formation should react," he said.

He said it was "sad" that even Catholic bookstores were selling The Da Vinci Code "for purely economic reasons."

One bookstore selling "The Da Vinci Code" is the one in the Gemelli Hospital, a Catholic institution where the Pope spent a total of 28 days in two stints in February and March.

In the interview, Bertone firmly rejected the book's claim that the feminine role in Christianity had been suppressed.

"This is one of the most vulgar of inventions. The feminine element is present in all the Gospels," Bertone said.

Bertone also strongly defended Opus Dei, the conservative Church organization that the book depicts as a ruthless, Machiavellian group that resorts even to murder in its attempt to keep the Church's secrets hidden.

The novel is going to reach an even wider audience next year with the release of a film based on the book staring Tom Hanks.

© Copyright Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved. The information contained In this news report may not be published, broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of Reuters Ltd.

03/15/2005 13:02 RTR

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#236. To: Jhoffa_ (#227)

Let's be frank.. If you have an problem with dead people coming back to life, then you may as well just put the book down and go find something else to do.

It's simply not for everyone.. Some were not called.

If Jesus didn't rise from the dead he was a lying lunatic. If he did, he was, as he stated, God.

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   16:37:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#237. To: noone222 (#231)

I can't disagree with a thing you said.

I feel anger when I see phonies acting as they do...and then at the people who at like lemmings without ever actually doing any sort of studying or trying to grow on their own.

But overall, it is sadness at 'what might have been', because not everyone is gonna be 'over there'. The wide gate and narrow road thingie......

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-16   16:41:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#238. To: noone222 (#236)

If Jesus didn't rise from the dead he was a lying lunatic

I don't think even lying lunatics can have others witness their deaths, be entombed, and then hide their own bodies after they have risen from the dead.

But, I don't know much about lying lunatics, So maybe I am not knowledgeable enough to comment on such matters.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   16:50:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#239. To: rowdee (#235)

One of his names is the God of impossibilities.

=0)

yes, that is one of His names, isn't it?

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   16:51:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#240. To: rowdee (#237)

You said it earlier, and it's really the "prozac" relief for Christians, and that is this:

None cometh to the Father except they be called by the Spirit.

The Free Will theory is designed by God, and if your His I'd advise you to notice the calling, because when you don't recognize that you're being called He is forced to chasten you into changing your will to fit His.

He's God and He don't have to play fair. I found out the hard way, and it's not necessary. You just need to pay attention better than I did.

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   16:52:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#241. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#238)

I don't think even lying lunatics can have others witness their deaths, be entombed, and then hide their own bodies after they have risen from the dead.

I wasn't saying that I don't believe He is Arisen, I do. I was just saying that all of Christianity rests upon the resurrection. If He didn't resurrect it's over, and He was a Liar. I don't personally believe that's the case.

I also think that if the Jews could have proven He didn't resurrect ... they would have done so. Quite the opposite happened. And the amount of hatred for Christ that is commonly demonstrated by Jewish attacks upon Nativity Scenes, Crosses or references to God in school certainly make me wonder what makes them continue to crucify him 2000 years later.

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   16:59:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#242. To: noone222 (#241)

I wasn't saying that I don't believe He is Arisen

I know that.

=0)

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   17:00:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#243. To: noone222 (#241)

And the amount of hatred for Christ that is commonly demonstrated by Jewish attacks upon Nativity Scenes, Crosses or references to God in school certainly make me wonder what makes them continue to crucify him 2000 years later.

To be fair, it isn't only Jews who react strongly to Nativity scenes, etc..

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   17:02:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#244. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#243)

To be fair, it isn't only Jews who react strongly to Nativity scenes, etc..

My investigations have shown that it is generally organizations being run by Jewish people such as the ACLU, or Jewish Lawyers, that are "offended" by public displays of Christ. Also, the Babylonian Talmud describes Christ as the bastard son of a whore impregnated by a roman soldier.

If necessary I can find the Talmudic Book and Verse.

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   17:13:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#245. To: noone222 (#244)

Around these parts, Agnostics, Gays, and people of "political correctness" also strongly oppose Nativity scenes.

In Cincinnati, The KKK fights for a permit to put up a cross downtown. I don't know if it's right or wrong - but it is normally unanimously opposed by everyone because of the Klan's association with cross burning, etc.

I just was pointing out that it isn't only Jews who oppose these things - there are a number of other groups who oppose anything related to Christianity.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   17:19:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#246. To: noone222 (#244)

Also, I am no expert on the Talmud, as it is not a book I have aspired to read yet. I have an arsenal of unread books already. Isn't the Talmudic faith a form of Jewish mystisism? (please excuse spelling errors).

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   17:22:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#247. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#245)

In Cincinnati, The KKK fights for a permit to put up a cross downtown. I don't know if it's right or wrong - but it is normally unanimously opposed by everyone because of the Klan's association with cross burning, etc.

Truthfully, it's much ado about nothing, a distraction that is aggravating to many Christians. The Bible speaks against graven images of any sort. That should be the end of it.

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   17:36:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#248. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#246)

Also, I am no expert on the Talmud, as it is not a book I have aspired to read yet. I have an arsenal of unread books already. Isn't the Talmudic faith a form of Jewish mystisism? (please excuse spelling errors).

If the American public as a whole ever were able to read the talmud en masse, there wouldn't be a Jew allowed in America a week later.

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   17:40:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#249. To: noone222 (#240)

Sometimes, it takes harder whacks upside the head.

Some time ago, I heard Doc Scott teaching about Romans 1 about how God had left evidence of his being. That those who ignore Him become godless and he turns them loose/gives them up to the perverseness of evils, including men loving men, and women to women.

And then on into Romans 2, Paul cautions against judging these people because God had turned them loose into their perversions.

Scott's explaining of various words in Greek really help with the understanding of what was meant because the Greek uses definitive words.

We lost a real scholar with his death. I hopeful Mrs. Scott continues in the same vein of teaching.

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-16   17:52:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#250. To: noone222 (#248)

talmud en masse

Keep your faerie tales straight, Cledus. They read the book of common prayer in Mass. Talmud is probably a synagogue thing.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   18:29:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#251. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#239)

What about the "God of Rigged Games?" I still don't know how you can say we have free will if he knows every choice we will make. ;)

Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle applied to theology. Simply put, no one can know everything.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   18:31:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#252. To: Samuel Gray (#251)

What about the "God of Rigged Games?

what???

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   18:33:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#253. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#252)

He's talking about pre-destination.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   18:34:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#254. To: noone222 (#240)

He's God and He don't have to play fair.

Then the game is rigged, and all bets are off. He doesn't play fair, there's no reason for me to either.

He can go his own way, I go mine.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   18:34:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#255. To: Jhoffa_ (#253)

Very good, grasshopper. ( I lost your Yahoo ID, by the way).

If all this is "foreordained" from the git go, then there is no free agency called "will". He knows the sparrow when it falls, he knows the choices we will make.

If the outcomes are predetermined, there's no free will, and not a "hell" of a lot we can do about it.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   18:36:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#256. To: Samuel Gray (#255)

I guess you are safe then.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   18:41:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#257. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#256)

And if not, my friend, there's nothing I could have done about it anyway.

Recall Judas, who 'twould have been better if he'd had a millstone tied around his neck and drowned in the depths of the ocean, or to have never been born. He was dead meat from the start.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   18:43:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#258. To: Samuel Gray (#255)

Well, I can't speak for God..

However, the way it appears to me is that, like any good manager, he puts systems in place and allows them to operate. When he does not is commonly known as a "mircale"

When we thing of God's laws, we think of the Ten Commandments.. but there are many others which don't get the attention they deserve. Like gravity, for example.

If you choose to jump off a building, his laws happen and you fall.

Did he throw you off? No, you jumped and his systems processed you just liek they would a water baloon or anything else.

We can't choose what color we are or where we are born.. (As such, I always thought these superficial & trivial details were no way to judge a man, as they are outisde his control) BUT! we can choose what we think and believe. This is the true measure of a man and is amounts to his net worth.

But that's not your point, is it?

You point is: "If God knows everything from the past to the future, he can just skip the nonsense and judge every man on the choices he would have made, and he can do it right now."

Truly, he could..

However this does not glorify him.

IMO, he would rather allow men to decide and then live by their decisions.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   18:45:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#259. To: All (#258)

"miracle" rather..

For example: If I had a post without a single typo, it would be considered a "Miracle"

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   18:47:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#260. To: Samuel Gray (#257)

Okay Sam, you have proven to the entire board that you loath Christianty. Point taken.

Now leave the thread die. I am tired of debating your twisted and biased views. You have made your side perfectly clear and so have I.

As have others.

It's time to put this debate to rest before more animosity occurs.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   18:48:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#261. To: Samuel Gray (#257)

Perhaps God knew his heart and the choices he would make?

He allowed him to continue, regardless.. and let his systems work..

Even knowing Judas would grow into a man, and kill his only begotten son.

I'd call that free will.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   18:49:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#262. To: Jhoffa_ (#258)

very well reasoned and rationally put. I did feel the need to tell you this before I left the thread die in peace.

I am too tired to reason any further.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   18:52:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#263. To: Samuel Gray, noone222 (#254)

Then the game is rigged, and all bets are off. He doesn't play fair, there's no reason for me to either.

He can go his own way, I go mine.

LOL, God is the cat, and you are the mouse,
He can crush you or cut you open at any time, but is simply toying with your sorry ass until He can punish you BUT GOOD! Do as His earthly sevants command you, dig, or it's gonna be like the big owee forever.

I'm a stone atheist, but I have respect for some religios people and despise others. I despise some atheists too, jerks that call police when I sing Frosty Snowman too loud at night.

Dakmar  posted on  2005-03-16   18:53:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#264. To: Dakmar (#263)

Frosty's a gaywad.. and decent people are trying to sleep!

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   18:55:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#265. To: Jhoffa_ (#264)

Jesus Freak! Don't make me start posting Frank Burns quotes.

Dakmar  posted on  2005-03-16   18:57:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#266. To: Dakmar (#265)

You're the one playing with the flag on my mailbox, aren't you?

Commie!

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   18:59:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#267. To: All (#263)

sevants

typo, but that works too...

Dakmar  posted on  2005-03-16   18:59:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#268. To: Jhoffa_ (#266)

The Dune Buggy? No, I don't know what you're talking about.

Dakmar  posted on  2005-03-16   19:00:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#269. To: Dakmar (#268)

Geezel.. Don't mention that..

(There's still 6 mos on the statute of limitations, for crying out loud.)

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   19:01:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#270. To: Samuel Gray (#254)

He can go his own way, I go mine.

Really, He can go His way, and you will go wherever He says and His way ... it's all His and it all goes His way.

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   19:17:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#271. To: noone222 (#270)

No, he is "not willing that any be lost"

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   19:20:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#272. To: noone222 (#270)

And there's hope for Sam..

For all his bullshit here on the Forum, he has a very good working knowledge of Christianity.

He is missing the spiritual part.

He's into mechanics.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   19:21:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#273. To: noone222 (#270)

He's "caught up" in the mechanics, rather..

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   19:23:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#274. To: Jhoffa_ (#210)

No, but they worship a man that is a direct descendant of that same king, and if Israel had existed as a country, he would have been that countries rightful king.

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-16   19:29:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#275. To: Aric2000 (#274)

You are ignorant of these things because you have not read the scriptures.

He did not desire to be "King"

Fled from it, in fact.

He seemed to prefer hanging around "sinners" actually.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   19:34:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#276. To: Dakmar (#263)

I'm a stone atheist, but I have respect for some religios people and despise others. I despise some atheists too, jerks that call police when I sing Frosty Snowman too loud at night.

I've been all over the map myself, from Christian to atheist and multiple points in-between. Here's what I think I've figured out. You know why religions have the power that they do, even though they often require their adherents to believe things that would strain the credulity of a five year old child? Because at their most fundamental level they have some real and vital truth there. You know why atheists and their adherents have so much power in their arguments against various religions? Because they have a lot of truth on their side as well.

I think Ghandi said it best when he said "Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is". What we call religion is the social construct and structures that get erected around the original revelation of whichever prophet you want to name, from Elijah to Jesus to Buddha to Mohammed to Krishna to Bahá'u'lláh. So what are these revelations that I'm referring to, that have the power to change the destiny of nations?

If you go to near-death.com and read up on the stories there, I think one can quickly surmise a premise that states "all great religions begin with near-death experiences, stimulated by one kind of event or another". Now for this argument to have any validity, one has to suppose that there really is something to what people experience during their near-death experiences.

This is a subject that I'm rather interested in, and I've got more ideas about this to share, but lets just start with this for now.

Elliott Jackalope  posted on  2005-03-16   19:34:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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