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Title: Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'
Source: Netscape News
URL Source: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news ... 2&dt=20050315130200&w=RTR&covi
Published: Mar 15, 2005
Author: Reuters
Post Date: 2005-03-15 17:59:13 by Mr Nuke Buzzcut
Keywords: Cardinal, Blasts, Cheap
Views: 13167
Comments: 568

Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'

ROME (Reuters) - A top Catholic cardinal has blasted "The Da Vinci Code" as a "gross and absurd" distortion of history and said Catholic bookstores should take the bestseller off their shelves because it is full of "cheap lies."

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, in an interview with the Milan newspaper Il Giornale, became the highest ranking Italian Churchman to speak out against the book, an international blockbuster that has sold millions of copies.

"(It) aims to discredit the Church and its history through gross and absurd manipulations," Bertone, the archbishop of the northern Italian city of Genoa and a close friend of Pope John Paul told the paper in its Monday edition.

"This seems like a throwback to the old anti-clerical pamphlets of the 1800s," he said.

The central claim of the book, written by American Dan Brown, is that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had children. The Bible says Jesus never married, was crucified and rose from the dead.

Bertone's comments were significant because until the Pope named him archbishop of Genoa in 2003 he was for years the number two man at the Vatican's most powerful department - the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

"You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real," he said. "I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that."

HOLY GRAIL

A central storyline of the book is that the Holy Grail is not the cup which Christ is said to have used at the Last Supper but really the bloodline descended from Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Bertone calls this idea "a perversion."

Bertone is so incensed about the novel that he will be the key speaker at a roundtable in Genoa Wednesday night attempting to dismantle the book, which also accuses the Church of covering up the female role in Christianity.

"I will try to clear things up and help form consciences," the cardinal said.

"I think that when faced with affirmations that are so shameful and unfounded, readers who have even a minimum of basic (Christian) formation should react," he said.

He said it was "sad" that even Catholic bookstores were selling The Da Vinci Code "for purely economic reasons."

One bookstore selling "The Da Vinci Code" is the one in the Gemelli Hospital, a Catholic institution where the Pope spent a total of 28 days in two stints in February and March.

In the interview, Bertone firmly rejected the book's claim that the feminine role in Christianity had been suppressed.

"This is one of the most vulgar of inventions. The feminine element is present in all the Gospels," Bertone said.

Bertone also strongly defended Opus Dei, the conservative Church organization that the book depicts as a ruthless, Machiavellian group that resorts even to murder in its attempt to keep the Church's secrets hidden.

The novel is going to reach an even wider audience next year with the release of a film based on the book staring Tom Hanks.

© Copyright Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved. The information contained In this news report may not be published, broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of Reuters Ltd.

03/15/2005 13:02 RTR

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 342.

#1. To: All (#0)

"I think that when faced with affirmations that are so shameful and unfounded, readers who have even a minimum of basic (Christian) formation should react," he said.

How ironic that someone whose living is dependent upon pushing a fiction like the bible should react so defensively against another similar work.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-15   18:01:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#1)

How ironic that someone whose living is dependent upon pushing a fiction like the bible should react so defensively against another similar work.

ROFLMAO!!

EXACTLY RIGHT......

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-15   18:03:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Aric2000, Samuel Gray (#2)

"You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real," he said.

He's talking about the bible, right?

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-15   18:07:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#3)

I think so. I mean, Da Vinci actually existed, but the guys who venerate the water walkin shepherd born of a virgin are offended because they say someone is making up stuff???

Rich.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-15   21:02:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Samuel Gray (#12)

I think so. I mean, Da Vinci actually existed, but the guys who venerate the water walkin shepherd born of a virgin are offended because they say someone is making up stuff???

have you read, the Da Vinci Code, The Bible, and down this thread in that order?

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-15   21:08:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Continental Op (#15)

have you read, the Da Vinci Code, The Bible, and down this thread in that order?

yes, yes, yes, and so what?

When I read DVC and Angels and Demons, I laughed out loud because I knew the "Church of the Rock" would soil their vestments over it.

At least SOME of what Brown wrote was verifiable in the historical record. Find me a large buried boat, or some credible corroborative documentation concerning the life of Jesus written contemporaneously with his existence on earth, and we'll talk.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-15   21:12:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Samuel Gray (#16)

At least SOME of what Brown wrote was verifiable in the historical record. Find me a large buried boat, or some credible corroborative documentation concerning the life of Jesus written contemporaneously with his existence on earth, and we'll talk.

"At least SOME of what Brown wrote was verifiable in the historical record."

Yes, there was a Da Vinci...

"Find me a large buried boat, or some credible corroborative documentation concerning the life of Jesus written contemporaneously with his existence on earth, and we'll talk."

the archeological evidence in support ofthe Bible is staggering. Read up on it sometime.

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-15   21:28:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Continental Op (#22)

Yeah, towns existed with the same names as some of those in the Bible.

Finding a reference to Loch Ness in an ancient document and producing Nessie are entirely different matters entirely.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-15   21:30:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Samuel Gray (#24)

Finding a reference to Loch Ness in an ancient document and producing Nessie are entirely different matters entirely.

I suppose you're not old enough to remember when the ancestors of your ilk were claiming the Bible was surely false because it mentioned Hitites and there was absolutely no such thing as a Hittite. Then some more excavation was done and presto, the Hittite civilization was discovered! No one remembers that anymore though.

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-15   21:35:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Continental Op (#30)

At the end of the day, you can find all the Roman roads, dead civilizations, and mysterious parchments you want, yet the entire system is based on something that is NOT there in a tomb in Gethsemane??

Thomas was on the right track. Lest I see the nail prints and thrust my hand into his side...

Etc, etc...

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-15   21:38:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Samuel Gray (#33)

yet the entire system is based on something that is NOT there in a tomb in Gethsemane??

why should there be?

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-15   21:39:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Continental Op (#36)

Most 2000 year old tombs are empty, is that it? Just that one is empty due to some other process than natural decay or grave robbery?

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-15   21:43:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Samuel Gray (#37)

Most 2000 year old tombs are empty, is that it? Just that one is empty due to some other process than natural decay or grave robbery?

where is the tomb?

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-15   21:46:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Continental Op (#39)

It's your fairy tale, you tell me.

Back on the subject of the thread, why does the prospect of Jesus having a wife bother the Catholics so much? The Gnostic gospel of Phillip said he kissed her on the mouth many times, and loved her more than the disciples...

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-15   21:48:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Samuel Gray (#41)

...why does the prospect of Jesus having a wife bother the Catholics so much? The Gnostic gospel of Phillip said he kissed her on the mouth many times, and loved her more than the disciples...

Because it would confirm the fact that Jesus wasn't divine. And we can't have that type of info floating around.

2Trievers  posted on  2005-03-15   22:12:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: 2Trievers, All (#51)

Because it would confirm the fact that Jesus wasn't divine. And we can't have that type of info floating around.

Ok, guys, you have been having your fun. Those of us who do accept the Holy Bible as fact have the opposite opinion. We think we are right. You say that we are silly, etc for believing these things. You say that we can't prove that He was divine. But, the truth is you can't prove that He wasn't. So, you have your opinion. So, we have two sides of this dividing line. One side can't prove anything to the other side. You do not believe in His divinity, so be it. We do, so be it.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   8:15:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: Don (#64)

You say that we can't prove that He was divine. But, the truth is you can't prove that He wasn't.

But, if one is to subscribe to logic, then the burden of proof is squarely upon the one making the affirmation of existence. The logically default position with respect to claims of existence is one of disbelief -- until such time as actual verifiable, substantiable evidence can be entered into the record and evaluated as concrete fact.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   11:48:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#150. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut, All (#128)

the burden of proof is squarely upon the one making the affirmation of existence.

Counselor, this isn't a court of law. It's your decision to believe or not.

In the meantime, we have the First Amendment in this country. Freedom of Religion and all that? I can start a religion worshipping my right, big toe and I don't have to prove a thing.

Christianity and belief in Christ is much more established than my pretend church. Prove something? Yeah, right. In your dreams. Christianity is here and it will stay here. Sorry 'bout that. No, I'm not.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   13:55:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#342. To: Don (#150)

Counselor, this isn't a court of law. It's your decision to believe or not.

My comments have no relevance to the shenanigans that go on in a court of law. I was speaking to reason, reality and logic. But, if you wish to set reason, reality and logic aside, that indeed is your choice.

In the meantime, we have the First Amendment in this country. Freedom of Religion and all that? I can start a religion worshipping my right, big toe and I don't have to prove a thing.
I've in no way indicated that you should be prevented from worshiping as you please - provided you violate the rights of no person in the process. Have at it. Believe what you will.

Christianity and belief in Christ is much more established than my pretend church. Prove something? Yeah, right. In your dreams. Christianity is here and it will stay here. Sorry 'bout that. No, I'm not.
Lots of religions are here. Some are more populous than christianity. But, popularity is not proof. And, if the cardinal wishes to make accusations against the written works of other, he best look in the mirror first, else he stands to be laughed at for the fool that he makes himself.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:01:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 342.

#350. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#342)

"I was speaking to reason, reality and logic. But, if you wish to set reason, reality and logic aside, that indeed is your choice."

Reason, reality, and logic. Ok, those things will do for a start. How do you prove the existence of God? A better question would be how do you disprove the existence of God when you can look up and see the stars and other bodies there or look here on earth and see the things that have been created here?

Is it reasonable, real, or logical to think all of these things just popped into existence one morning. Where did they come from? There has to be a beginning to physical things. There has to be as Plato might put it the real or original from which all other similar things are copies.

If there is a God, would He abandon his creation or get bored with it? Lets consider the case of a father and a son for a moment. Would most human fathers abandon his son. A son is a copy of the father. We are told that God made man in His image in the Bible. You don't believe in the Bible? Use your own human experience. Would you abandon a child made in your image? Most men wouldn't.

Oh, I forgot. You don't believe in the Bible so how do we know that man is made in God's image? Well, something was made in God's image. You don't create something out of a vacuum. Lets consider just the animals are made in God's image. Or just the earth itself is made from God's image. Well, God created all of those things. If most men would not abandon their creation, why would God? It isn't reasonable, real, or logical to think that everything was just created without a supreme maker or that the supreme maker would just abandon His creation.

What about Christ? We still don't believe in the Holy Bible so lets toss it out for the moment. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus has some comments in his history that might be of interest to you.

The Holy Bible, of course, is still the main source of information about Christ and Christianity. Paul never met Christ, but he knew Peter and other disciples who did know Christ. Paul got his information from the people who personally knew Christ and were with him from the beginning of his ministry to the end of his time on earth. If there are books that were left out of the Holy Bible, still Paul knew those people who knew Christ. So, his version of what happened must be true.

Wait a minute. You say that Paul's writings were filtered and even changed to make the man Jesus into Christ, the son of God? The true story is that Jesus died as a man and never rose on that third day. And, that the Jews are right in still awaiting their king. There comes that dividing line between faith and disbelief, right? The smart people are on the side of disbelief. The other side...well...they should know better to put it charitably.

Ok, is the Bible correct in simple facts like the existence of long dead cities? Archeologists are constantly coming up with their findings. So, if the Bible is right in one thing maybe other things are also true. Biblical prophecy is an interesting area. It even talks about the rebirth of Israel some 2,000 years later. Gee, it was just a lucky guess, I suppose.

"provided you violate the rights of no person in the process. Have at it. Believe what you will. "

Thank you for your courtesy. I appreciate you allowing me to do that. I would also appreciate it if you don't violate any rights that Christians might have such as being allowed to obey what they think is the will of God in certain matters such as preaching the gospel.

"if the cardinal wishes to make accusations against the written works of other, he best look in the mirror first, else he stands to be laughed at for the fool that he makes himself. "

You can send the Pope a letter and advise him of that if you wish. He might even take the time to read it. I am not a Catholic so I don't take great exception to you calling him a fool, but I am sure that many Roman Catholics would take exception with you on that statement.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16 22:34:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 342.

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