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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'
Source: Netscape News
URL Source: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news ... 2&dt=20050315130200&w=RTR&covi
Published: Mar 15, 2005
Author: Reuters
Post Date: 2005-03-15 17:59:13 by Mr Nuke Buzzcut
Keywords: Cardinal, Blasts, Cheap
Views: 8210
Comments: 568

Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'

ROME (Reuters) - A top Catholic cardinal has blasted "The Da Vinci Code" as a "gross and absurd" distortion of history and said Catholic bookstores should take the bestseller off their shelves because it is full of "cheap lies."

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, in an interview with the Milan newspaper Il Giornale, became the highest ranking Italian Churchman to speak out against the book, an international blockbuster that has sold millions of copies.

"(It) aims to discredit the Church and its history through gross and absurd manipulations," Bertone, the archbishop of the northern Italian city of Genoa and a close friend of Pope John Paul told the paper in its Monday edition.

"This seems like a throwback to the old anti-clerical pamphlets of the 1800s," he said.

The central claim of the book, written by American Dan Brown, is that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had children. The Bible says Jesus never married, was crucified and rose from the dead.

Bertone's comments were significant because until the Pope named him archbishop of Genoa in 2003 he was for years the number two man at the Vatican's most powerful department - the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

"You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real," he said. "I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that."

HOLY GRAIL

A central storyline of the book is that the Holy Grail is not the cup which Christ is said to have used at the Last Supper but really the bloodline descended from Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Bertone calls this idea "a perversion."

Bertone is so incensed about the novel that he will be the key speaker at a roundtable in Genoa Wednesday night attempting to dismantle the book, which also accuses the Church of covering up the female role in Christianity.

"I will try to clear things up and help form consciences," the cardinal said.

"I think that when faced with affirmations that are so shameful and unfounded, readers who have even a minimum of basic (Christian) formation should react," he said.

He said it was "sad" that even Catholic bookstores were selling The Da Vinci Code "for purely economic reasons."

One bookstore selling "The Da Vinci Code" is the one in the Gemelli Hospital, a Catholic institution where the Pope spent a total of 28 days in two stints in February and March.

In the interview, Bertone firmly rejected the book's claim that the feminine role in Christianity had been suppressed.

"This is one of the most vulgar of inventions. The feminine element is present in all the Gospels," Bertone said.

Bertone also strongly defended Opus Dei, the conservative Church organization that the book depicts as a ruthless, Machiavellian group that resorts even to murder in its attempt to keep the Church's secrets hidden.

The novel is going to reach an even wider audience next year with the release of a film based on the book staring Tom Hanks.

© Copyright Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved. The information contained In this news report may not be published, broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of Reuters Ltd.

03/15/2005 13:02 RTR

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#57. To: Samuel Gray (#48)

Therein lies the rub, eh? Upon whose teachings shall we stake our lives?

On the teaching that has a proven-track record? Christianity is the religion of millions. Gnosticism numbers nuts like the late Philip K. Dick among it's recent and few followers.

"Personally, I don't operate well on faith. I demand more of my 10 year old than "just because I say so", so why would I not demand more of my Deity?"

That's entirely your business. Your personal standards though, mean nothing to anyone else, and certainly prove nothing.

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-16   7:50:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: 2Trievers (#51)

Because it would confirm the fact that Jesus wasn't divine. And we can't have that type of info floating around.

I think you need to spend some quality time reading up on Gnosticism, if you're going to use it's content and teachings.

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-16   7:52:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Samuel Gray (#41)

Back on the subject of the thread, why does the prospect of Jesus having a wife bother the Catholics so much?

The Catholic Church has a homosexual/paedophile contract to maintain with the U.S. Govt. and the Secret Fraternal Societies.

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   7:55:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#52)

he point, and it is still valid even though you would prefer to dance around it, is that both books are loosely based around actual historical events.

1. To: All (#0)

"I think that when faced with affirmations that are so shameful and unfounded, readers who have even a minimum of basic (Christian) formation should react," he said. "

How ironic that someone whose living is dependent upon pushing a fiction like the bible should react so defensively against another similar work.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut posted on 2005-03-15 18:01:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

so we have progressed thus far that you admit the Bible is not entirely a work of fiction?

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-16   7:56:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#52)

They may be useful for archaeoligists seeking information about ancient civilizations, but they are of little use for "establishing how to acquire life after death."

Personally I think life after death is already a done deal. The only thing left to determine is the Zip Code. [7777777 or 666666]

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   7:59:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Continental Op (#57)

Your personal standards though, mean nothing to anyone else

Nor do yours, for that matter. You're saying that because millions believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus that validates those myths as a belief system?

Millions also believe in Islam and the eastern religions...do they not have a proven "track record?"

I'll just take my religion "cafeteria style", if at all. The Christians could use some fun stuff like that 72 virgin retirement plan the Islamics have. All the Bible thumpers have is eternity falling before some throne saying "Worthy is the Lamb..."

I've had lamb before, and even with mint jelly, it ain't worth an eternity of praise.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   8:02:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Aric2000 (#54)

So, Jesus is up on the cross, and he gasps out "PETER! Come to me! " Peter, at the foot of the hill, struggles to reach the top, but is beaten by Roman soldiers and cast down.

Once more, the call comes...a bit weaker "Peter. Come to me!" "Yes Lord, I'm coming..." This time, he gets a little farther up the hill, but meets the same fate, a beating and a toss down the stony hillside.

Again, the call. "Peter...come...to...me". Frenzied, Peter speeds around the Roman guards with newfound strength to race up Calvary, and fall at the foot of the cross, spent and gasping. "Yes Lord! I am here! Speak thou to me!"

Jesus looks down and says "I can see your house from up here..."

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   8:07:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: 2Trievers, All (#51)

Because it would confirm the fact that Jesus wasn't divine. And we can't have that type of info floating around.

Ok, guys, you have been having your fun. Those of us who do accept the Holy Bible as fact have the opposite opinion. We think we are right. You say that we are silly, etc for believing these things. You say that we can't prove that He was divine. But, the truth is you can't prove that He wasn't. So, you have your opinion. So, we have two sides of this dividing line. One side can't prove anything to the other side. You do not believe in His divinity, so be it. We do, so be it.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   8:15:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Samuel Gray (#62)

Millions also believe in Islam and the eastern religions...do they not have a proven "track record?"

Prophency wise? No.

"I've had lamb before, and even with mint jelly, it ain't worth an eternity of praise."

Try it with parsely, or curried. Big improvement.

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-16   8:20:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Don (#64)

Ok, guys, you have been having your fun. Those of us who do accept the Holy Bible as fact have the opposite opinion. We think we are right. You say that we are silly, etc for believing these things. You say that we can't prove that He was divine. But, the truth is you can't prove that He wasn't. So, you have your opinion. So, we have two sides of this dividing line. One side can't prove anything to the other side. You do not believe in His divinity, so be it. We do, so be it.

Well said Don, well said.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   8:38:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Samuel Gray (#62)

All the Bible thumpers have is eternity falling before some throne saying "Worthy is the Lamb..."

To quote a song I like:

Surronded by Your Glory
What will my heart feel?
Will I dance for you Jesus?
Or in all of You be still?
Will I stand in Your Presense?BR> Or to my knees will I fall
Will I sing Hallelujah?
Will I be able to speak at all?
I can only imagine....

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   8:45:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#67)

Will I dance for you Jesus?

Not the Baptists.

Love the song, though. It has a great dynamic feel to the melody...slow build, then sorta majestic at the end.

I play praise music in a band at church, as I've said, more for the music than the theology. Music would be more of a religion to me at this point, but I do appreciate some of the tunes.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   9:01:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Don, Mekons4 (#64)

The threads always turn into this faith v. fact things, and I've helped that along with my cynicism toward religion.

The topic of the thread was and is an interesting one. Dan Brown's book put the Catholic church over the ragged edge of insanity.

I've read all his books, and am "dissecting" a companion book to it called "Secrets of the Code" where some of the myth is separated from historical fact.

It's fascinating.

I believe critical examination of anything is crucial to understanding it. As Mekons alluded to earlier, when I began that critical examination of my faith, as early as seven years old, it evaporated into smoke and departed. I've never found it since, although, I confess having not looked very hard for it.

If it comforts some to believe that way, I can't see the harm in it, within its proper bounds. When it's loosed on government and inflicted on the rest of us, though, there is a problem.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   9:05:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: 2Trievers (#51)

Because it would confirm the fact that Jesus wasn't divine. And we can't have that type of info floating around.

I am not so sure that Jesus having a wife is proof of His not being divine. Rabbi means "teacher", and most Rabbi's of His time did indeed have wives, so in context of the times in which He walked the earth, in taking a wife, would He not be doing what was socially acceptable?

Also, saying that "he kissed Mary on the mouth" is proof of this or that, I think is a bit of a stretch and one can "read" anything into that that they choose. But a kiss in those times did not necessarily have the same sexual connotations as it does today.

I kiss my 14 year old daughter on the mouth when she goes to bed, does that mean I am playing tonsil hockey with her? no.

1. Romans 16:16 "Greet one another with an holy kiss".

2. I Corinthians 16:20 "Greet ye one another with an holy kiss".

3. II Corinthians 12:12 "Greet one another with an holy kiss".

4. I Thessalonians 5:26 "Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss".

5. I Peter 5:14 "Greet one another with a kiss of charity".

6. Jacob kissed his father (Genesis 27:27)

7. Esau kissed Jacob (Genesis 33:4)

8. Laban kissed Joseph (Genesis 29:13)

9. Joseph kissed his brethren (Genesis 45:15)

10.Aaron kissed Moses (Exodus 4:27)

11.Moses kissed Jethro (Exodus 18:7)

12 David kissed Jonathan (I Samuel 20:41)

13.The father kissed the prodigal son (Luke 15:20)

14.The elders at Ephesus kissed Paul (Acts 20:37)

Other New Testament accounts of using a kiss: Acts 20:37 reads, "And they wept sore, and fell on Paul's neck and kissed him". Luke 7:45, Christ addressed Simon upon entering this Pharisee's home saying, "Thou gavest me no kiss". In the parable of the prodigal son, when the son returns home in Luke 15:20 it reads, "And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck and kissed him".

I think that *MAYBE* a kiss had different connotations then, just as kissing my daughter differs from kissing my spouse.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   9:06:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Samuel Gray (#68)

Will I dance for you Jesus? Not the Baptists...

well, you MAY have a point there.....

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   9:07:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Samuel Gray (#68)

I play praise music in a band at church

And your Pastor is aware of your current belief system? You have a wonderful Pastor!

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   9:11:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Samuel Gray (#69)

When it's loosed on government and inflicted on the rest of us, though, there is a problem.

When disbelief and training people to do whatever they want to do as long as it makes them feel good is inflicted on the rest of us, there is a problem. The seeds of secularism have grown into a completely hedonistic society. It has turned a once great country into just another has-been.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   9:17:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Zipporah, christine, justlurking, rowdee (#70)

Ping to post #70

Please correct me if you feel I am wrong.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   9:18:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Don (#73)

When disbelief and training people to do whatever they want to do as long as it makes them feel good is inflicted on the rest of us, there is a problem. The seeds of secularism have grown into a completely hedonistic society. It has turned a once great country into just another has-been.

A double edged sword, no? I agree with what you posted. We are literally forced to accept everyone else's lifestyles, while our lives and beliefs are constantly up for ridicule. Live and let live, I say. We will all find out, when our day comes, if we are right or wrong.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   9:21:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#72)

My pastor has a PhD in psychology and used to assemble nuclear weapons.

That being said, I don't discuss my unbelief with him at church. I'm sure if I openly said "I don't believe any of this" any longer, I'd be replaced with a "Christian" bass player.

So far, it hasn't come up.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   9:43:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#70)

You are exactly right.. the problem here is you are dealing with a different culture .. a different time .. just as in more modern times, the Italians will kiss the cheek of another ..nothing to do with anything sexual .. but rather a greeting ..

In many cultures the gracious expression of welcome is a kiss or kisses. Other cultures welcome people or greet friends with a handshake. The kiss, handshake or hug are all expressions of the warmth and courtesy felt and extended. In the mid-eastern culture of Paul's day they greeted on another with a kiss (see Romans 16:16). The kiss is cultural, the spirit of warmth is to be universal.

Zipporah  posted on  2005-03-16   9:47:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Zipporah, cappsmadness (#77)

What about the unbinding of her hair in the presence of a man other than her husband? That was an overtly intimate gesture, and I'm sure, appalling to the other men of her day.

That implies a greater intimacy than friendship.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   9:49:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Samuel Gray (#76)

I don't discuss my unbelief with him at church. I'm sure if I openly said "I don't believe any of this" any longer

How many people have criticized "Christian churches" for not following the word of God when actually people just attend the churches without even believing in God? It sort of gives the real Christians a bad name.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   9:57:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#75)

We will all find out, when our day comes, if we are right or wrong.

True.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   9:58:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Don (#79)

Can't have non-Christians attending church now, can we? That whole "fishers of men" thing is so first century. ;)

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   10:00:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Samuel Gray (#81)

I am just saying that people are too critical of Christian churches and people who attend them at times. You recognize the difference, right?

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   10:02:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Don (#82)

I don't publicize my "unbelief" or doubt, or whatever, anywhere besides here, where it can hardly be said to influence anyone one way or the other.

Nor do I profess, preach, or espouse a belief that I do not hold.

I play guitar in the band. That's it.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   10:04:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Samuel Gray (#83)

Ok, I hope you play it well. We should all do something well.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   10:06:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#74)

This entire discussion is nonsense.. for why is it important to these people that Jesus BE married.. ?? First we must ask.. what was Jesus' purpose ? Was it to redeem mankind or to reproduce?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-03-16   10:09:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Samuel Gray (#83)

Nor do I profess, preach, or espouse a belief that I do not hold.

I play guitar in the band. That's it.

Then what you are saying is that what you are doing essentially is being a fraud?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-03-16   10:10:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#0)

Rothbard  posted on  2005-03-16   10:19:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Samuel Gray (#78)

What about the unbinding of her hair in the presence of a man other than her husband? That was an overtly intimate gesture, and I'm sure, appalling to the other men of her day.

That implies a greater intimacy than friendship.

Show me, Chapter and Verse, where it says that a woman must hide her hair?:

Corinthians 11:5-15 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head–it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,[a] since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.

11In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. 13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   10:20:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#0)

I've noticed this book [The Da Vinci Code] for quite some time. Seemed intriguing, if only for the title.

Can anyone give me a brief 1 paragraph synopsis of this book. Whats its point? I really dont want to read this book, as its very large, and quite frankly I have enough really thick books on my shelf that need reading.... I dont need another one..... but I'm still curious what its all about.

Rothbard  posted on  2005-03-16   10:20:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Zipporah (#86)

Then what you are saying is that what you are doing essentially is being a fraud?

Nope. Every note I play is real.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   10:20:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Samuel Gray (#83)

I play guitar in the band. That's it.

During the Praise and Worship service?

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   10:22:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Rothbard (#89)

It's another "search for the Holy Grail" thriller, that involves secret societies like the Knights Templar, the Priory of Sion, murder, hidden clues in the works of Da Vinci, the Catholic Church's coverup of an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ...

The Holy Grail being the womb of Mary Magdalene, and the notion that Jesus sired a bloodline on earth that started somewhere in France, I believe (Merovingian Kings).

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   10:23:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#91)

During the Praise and Worship service?

Two shows every Sunday morning. Yup.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   10:24:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Samuel Gray (#90)

Nope. Every note I play is real

Not speaking of 'notes' of course.. you are circumventing the issue.. the music.. is the issue and thus you are mocking God and not being true to the music NOR to yourself...aka a fraud.

Zipporah  posted on  2005-03-16   10:29:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: Samuel Gray (#69)

When it's loosed on government and inflicted on the rest of us, though, there is a problem.

I absolutely agree with that.

(isn't it said we should never discuss politics and religion with friends? ;)

christine  posted on  2005-03-16   10:32:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: Samuel Gray (#93)

Do you have a reply about my post at 88? The drying of her hair, in my observation, was her placing her "crown" at HIS feet.

A very beautiful and humble gesture, when taken in the context of the times.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   10:32:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: christine (#95)

(isn't it said we should never discuss politics and religion with friends? ;)

yea.... I read that somewhere before.

=0)

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   10:34:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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