[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help] 

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

The Problem of the Bitcoin Billionaires

Biden: “We’re leaving America in a better place today than when we came into office four years ago … "

Candace Owens: Gaetz out, Bondi in. There's more to this than you think.

OMG!!! Could Jill Biden Be Any MORE Embarrassing??? - Anyone NOTICE This???

Sudden death COVID vaccine paper published, then censored, by The Lancet now republished with peer review

Russian children returned from Syria

Donald Trump Indirectly Exposes the Jewish Neocons Behind Joe Biden's Nuclear War

Key European NATO Bases in Reach of Russia's Oreshnik Hypersonic Missile

Supervolcano Alert in Europe: Phlegraean Fields Activity Sparks Scientists Attention (Mass Starvation)

France reacted to the words of a US senator on sanctions against allies

Trump nominates former Soros executive for Treasury chief

SCOTUS asked to review if Illinois can keep counting mail-in ballots 2 weeks after election day

The Real Reason Government Workers Are Panicking About ElonÂ’s New Tracking System

THEY DON'T CARE ANYMORE!

Young Americans Are Turning Off The TV

Taxpayer Funded Censorship: How Government Is Using Your Tax Dollars To Silence Your Voice

"Terminator" Robot Dog Now Equipped With Amphibious Capabilities

Trump Plans To Use Impoundment To Cut Spending - What Is It?

Mass job losses as major factory owner moves business overseas

Israel kills IDF soldiers in Lebanon to prevent their kidnap

46% of those deaths were occurring on the day of vaccination or within two days

In 2002 the US signed the Hague Invasion Act into law

MUSK is going after WOKE DISNEY!!!

Bondi: Zuckerberg Colluded with Fauci So "They're Not Immune Anymore" from 1st Amendment Lawsuits

Ukrainian eyewitnesses claim factory was annihilated to dust by Putin's superweapon

FBI Director Wray and DHS Secretary Mayorkas have just refused to testify before the Senate...

Government adds 50K jobs monthly for two years. Half were Biden's attempt to mask a market collapse with debt.

You’ve Never Seen THIS Side Of Donald Trump

President Donald Trump Nominates Former Florida Rep. Dr. Dave Weldon as CDC Director

Joe Rogan Tells Josh Brolin His Recent Bell’s Palsy Diagnosis Could Be Linked to mRNA Vaccine


Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'
Source: Netscape News
URL Source: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news ... 2&dt=20050315130200&w=RTR&covi
Published: Mar 15, 2005
Author: Reuters
Post Date: 2005-03-15 17:59:13 by Mr Nuke Buzzcut
Keywords: Cardinal, Blasts, Cheap
Views: 8806
Comments: 568

Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'

ROME (Reuters) - A top Catholic cardinal has blasted "The Da Vinci Code" as a "gross and absurd" distortion of history and said Catholic bookstores should take the bestseller off their shelves because it is full of "cheap lies."

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, in an interview with the Milan newspaper Il Giornale, became the highest ranking Italian Churchman to speak out against the book, an international blockbuster that has sold millions of copies.

"(It) aims to discredit the Church and its history through gross and absurd manipulations," Bertone, the archbishop of the northern Italian city of Genoa and a close friend of Pope John Paul told the paper in its Monday edition.

"This seems like a throwback to the old anti-clerical pamphlets of the 1800s," he said.

The central claim of the book, written by American Dan Brown, is that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had children. The Bible says Jesus never married, was crucified and rose from the dead.

Bertone's comments were significant because until the Pope named him archbishop of Genoa in 2003 he was for years the number two man at the Vatican's most powerful department - the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

"You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real," he said. "I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that."

HOLY GRAIL

A central storyline of the book is that the Holy Grail is not the cup which Christ is said to have used at the Last Supper but really the bloodline descended from Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Bertone calls this idea "a perversion."

Bertone is so incensed about the novel that he will be the key speaker at a roundtable in Genoa Wednesday night attempting to dismantle the book, which also accuses the Church of covering up the female role in Christianity.

"I will try to clear things up and help form consciences," the cardinal said.

"I think that when faced with affirmations that are so shameful and unfounded, readers who have even a minimum of basic (Christian) formation should react," he said.

He said it was "sad" that even Catholic bookstores were selling The Da Vinci Code "for purely economic reasons."

One bookstore selling "The Da Vinci Code" is the one in the Gemelli Hospital, a Catholic institution where the Pope spent a total of 28 days in two stints in February and March.

In the interview, Bertone firmly rejected the book's claim that the feminine role in Christianity had been suppressed.

"This is one of the most vulgar of inventions. The feminine element is present in all the Gospels," Bertone said.

Bertone also strongly defended Opus Dei, the conservative Church organization that the book depicts as a ruthless, Machiavellian group that resorts even to murder in its attempt to keep the Church's secrets hidden.

The novel is going to reach an even wider audience next year with the release of a film based on the book staring Tom Hanks.

© Copyright Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved. The information contained In this news report may not be published, broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of Reuters Ltd.

03/15/2005 13:02 RTR

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Comments (1-82) not displayed.
      .
      .
      .

#83. To: Don (#82)

I don't publicize my "unbelief" or doubt, or whatever, anywhere besides here, where it can hardly be said to influence anyone one way or the other.

Nor do I profess, preach, or espouse a belief that I do not hold.

I play guitar in the band. That's it.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   10:04:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Samuel Gray (#83)

Ok, I hope you play it well. We should all do something well.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   10:06:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#74)

This entire discussion is nonsense.. for why is it important to these people that Jesus BE married.. ?? First we must ask.. what was Jesus' purpose ? Was it to redeem mankind or to reproduce?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-03-16   10:09:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Samuel Gray (#83)

Nor do I profess, preach, or espouse a belief that I do not hold.

I play guitar in the band. That's it.

Then what you are saying is that what you are doing essentially is being a fraud?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-03-16   10:10:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#0)

Rothbard  posted on  2005-03-16   10:19:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Samuel Gray (#78)

What about the unbinding of her hair in the presence of a man other than her husband? That was an overtly intimate gesture, and I'm sure, appalling to the other men of her day.

That implies a greater intimacy than friendship.

Show me, Chapter and Verse, where it says that a woman must hide her hair?:

Corinthians 11:5-15 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head–it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,[a] since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.

11In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. 13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   10:20:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#0)

I've noticed this book [The Da Vinci Code] for quite some time. Seemed intriguing, if only for the title.

Can anyone give me a brief 1 paragraph synopsis of this book. Whats its point? I really dont want to read this book, as its very large, and quite frankly I have enough really thick books on my shelf that need reading.... I dont need another one..... but I'm still curious what its all about.

Rothbard  posted on  2005-03-16   10:20:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Zipporah (#86)

Then what you are saying is that what you are doing essentially is being a fraud?

Nope. Every note I play is real.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   10:20:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Samuel Gray (#83)

I play guitar in the band. That's it.

During the Praise and Worship service?

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   10:22:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Rothbard (#89)

It's another "search for the Holy Grail" thriller, that involves secret societies like the Knights Templar, the Priory of Sion, murder, hidden clues in the works of Da Vinci, the Catholic Church's coverup of an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ...

The Holy Grail being the womb of Mary Magdalene, and the notion that Jesus sired a bloodline on earth that started somewhere in France, I believe (Merovingian Kings).

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   10:23:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#91)

During the Praise and Worship service?

Two shows every Sunday morning. Yup.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   10:24:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Samuel Gray (#90)

Nope. Every note I play is real

Not speaking of 'notes' of course.. you are circumventing the issue.. the music.. is the issue and thus you are mocking God and not being true to the music NOR to yourself...aka a fraud.

Zipporah  posted on  2005-03-16   10:29:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: Samuel Gray (#69)

When it's loosed on government and inflicted on the rest of us, though, there is a problem.

I absolutely agree with that.

(isn't it said we should never discuss politics and religion with friends? ;)

christine  posted on  2005-03-16   10:32:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: Samuel Gray (#93)

Do you have a reply about my post at 88? The drying of her hair, in my observation, was her placing her "crown" at HIS feet.

A very beautiful and humble gesture, when taken in the context of the times.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   10:32:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: christine (#95)

(isn't it said we should never discuss politics and religion with friends? ;)

yea.... I read that somewhere before.

=0)

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   10:34:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: Zipporah (#94)

you are mocking God and not being true to the music NOR to yourself

I don't see it as such. I see it as an opportunity to associate myself with a very good group of players to use my musical talents. It just so happens that the venue for that occurrence is a church.

I don't accept money like some of the musicians do, I don't even let them buy me strings.

I am able to separate the music, which I enjoy, from the theology, in which I don't place much stock.

I don't understand how that "mocks" anyone. My reasons for playing are based solely on enjoying the company and skills of the other people in the band.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   10:35:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#96)

Working on it. The texts I've read seem to indicate that it was at least frowned upon, if not expressly forbidden for a woman to take her hair down in front of a man who was not her husband.

It's worth noting that in the Gospel of Phillip, the word used for Mary Magdalene's relationship with Jesus is the Greek word koinonos, which although it is often translated as "companion", more accurately means "consort" or "partner", a person with whom one has had sexual intercourse.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   10:41:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: Zipporah (#77)

In many cultures the gracious expression of welcome is a kiss or kisses. Other cultures welcome people or greet friends with a handshake. The kiss, handshake or hug are all expressions of the warmth and courtesy felt and extended. In the mid-eastern culture of Paul's day they greeted on another with a kiss (see Romans 16:16). The kiss is cultural, the spirit of warmth is to be universal.

Somewhere in the Bible it says that the Jews would recognize each other as the sons of Abraham by the fact that they were circumcized. I've always wondered if this indicated that they didn't wear pants in those days. How else could they verify this?

crack monkey  posted on  2005-03-16   10:43:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: crack monkey (#100)

Maybe they had a social convention/rule where the heathen men wore turtleneck sweaters?

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   10:45:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: Samuel Gray (#99)

Working on it. The texts I've read seem to indicate that it was at least frowned upon, if not expressly forbidden for a woman to take her hair down in front of a man who was not her husband.

I am searching OLD testament passages, to see where you got this idea from. But in the New testament, it says what it says.

It's worth noting that in the Gospel of Phillip, the word used for Mary Magdalene's relationship with Jesus is the Greek word koinonos, which although it is often translated as "companion", more accurately means "consort" or "partner", a person with whom one has had sexual intercourse.

Where are you getting this from? can you give me the chapter and verse? I would like to see it myself so that I may further understand where you are coming from.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   10:48:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: crack monkey (#100)

I've always wondered if this indicated that they didn't wear pants in those days.

Well, if you look at all the pictures, they wore dresses.

Uh Oh! were they all cross dresser's as well?????

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   10:50:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: Zipporah, CAPPSMADNESS, Samuel Gray (#94)

I hesitate to get involved in this discussion as I don't wish to offend any of my friends, but I don't understand why SG's playing an instrument in the church band is mocking anyone or anything, particularly when he's not there vocalizing any contradictory point of view or deliberately trying to sabotage the service; rather, he is there contributing something of value and is also there accompanying his wife and daughters.

christine  posted on  2005-03-16   10:54:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#103)

Well, if you look at all the pictures, they wore dresses.

Well ... maybe the guys just wore short dresses. The right kind of hemline would let them still recognize each other as the sons of Abraham without disrobing. Guys who had to wear really short dresses to belong to the club probably got laughed at.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-03-16   10:57:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: crack monkey (#100)

I don't think they had shielded public urinals in those days.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2005-03-16   11:00:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: SKYDRIFTER (#106)

I don't think they had shielded public urinals in those days.

OK.

A bunch of guys is dresses who don't trust anyone they haven't pissed in public with.

No homphobes here.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-03-16   11:05:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: christine (#95)

(isn't it said we should never discuss politics and religion with friends? ;)

That's close but this is the actual saying:

Never discuss religion, politics, or anything else.

;)

1776  posted on  2005-03-16   11:08:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: Samuel Gray (#99)

Working on it.

Read Numbers 5.

Sorry, I can find no other reference to women's hair except that when in prayer, it shall be covered and that they should not adorn it with jewels or gold.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   11:12:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: Samuel Gray (#92)

The main propellant for the idea came from the book, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail." The authors got conned into tracing a fake organization with an associated factual background. The theme is that Jesus might not have died on the Cross; and that at least Mary Magdalene made it to France, with at least one child of Jesus. There is a 'Magdalene' culture in Europe which gives a lot of credence to the idea.

The fake organization was the "Priory de Scion." The fraudsters put some forged documents into oficial archives. The result was a goose-chase trying to trace the bloodline of Jesus.

The Catholic Church is in a natural tizzy, right now, as the Gospels point to Jesus as a Rabbi AND "King of the Jews." That leaves the position that you can't be a Christian, without first being a Jew. The Jews are in a panic, as that invades their turf. They don't want a hundred "unauthorized denominations" watering down their 'pity-party' and treatment as being "special."

Jesus taught the Hebrew God, he didn't leave a 'will' saying that after he was gone, a whole new church was to be formed. Essentially, Paul hijacked a Jewish sect.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2005-03-16   11:15:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: christine (#104)

This isnt personal whatsover ..but what it has to do with is essentially the purpose of music in a church whatever that church may be is for worship to Jesus the Christ .. God. In every church I have ever attended one criteria for participating in the worship service~ a declaration of faith. .. leading, preaching, the music ministry .. And declare that either to the pastor or/and the congregation. Participating in the music ministry is for the sole purpose of praise and worship. It's rather like being a preacher or pastor using music rather than a sermon. Therefore if a person who is a part of the music ministry and is not a person of faith that person is not being honest to the congregation nor to God nor to himself whether its this particular instance or another.

Zipporah  posted on  2005-03-16   11:17:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: SKYDRIFTER (#110)

Paul pretty much hijacked the entire New Testament. He never met Christ, yet new testament Christianity is heavily dependent upon his interpretation of things.

I don't like Paul. Never did. That puts me at odds with a whole bunch of folks.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   11:20:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: christine (#104)

but I don't understand why SG's playing an instrument in the church band is mocking anyone or anything

That is up to SG to decide. I guess I am a bit amused at the idea of someone who professes not to believe in God playing with a Praise and Worship band.

It just strikes me as funny. But like I tell SG, I don't hold the patent on sanity.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   11:22:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: Zipporah, Samuel Gray (#111)

In every church I have ever attended one criteria for participating in the worship service~ a declaration of faith. .. leading, preaching, the music ministry .. And declare that either to the pastor or/and the congregation. Participating in the music ministry is for the sole purpose of praise and worship.

I guess, like i said, that is what strikes me as amusing.

Sam, God is gonna getcha yet! ;0)

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   11:24:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: Zipporah (#111)

God and I, I imagine, shall settle our accounts privately at some point. I don't think I'm being dishonest to the congregation by playing praise music. Many of the large, non-denom. churches pay their musicians for working Sunday, and many of THOSE musicians are non-practicing Christians. It's just a "gig".

One bassist I know of plays the bars on Saturday nights, and "metro church" on Sunday, collecting healthy paychecks for both.

It's not dishonest to myself, I know why I'm there. I explained it. The music.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   11:28:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#114)

I can read vampire stories without believing in vampires, or read books on the civil war without being a Rebel or Yankee...all for amusement, education, etc.

Why then, can I not play religious music without being religious?

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   11:31:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: Samuel Gray (#115)

Maybe in your eyes it's just music.. but it is rather a paradox. To God the church and to Christians it's not just music. But as I said it's nothing personal, in the past I was very involved with church ministries and a statement of faith was a criteria to participate in those ministries. So it just doesnt make sense.. ?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-03-16   11:34:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: Samuel Gray (#116)

Why then, can I not play religious music without being religious?

well, I suppose that you can do it, as you apparently are.

Like I said, I just find it amusing. I guess not coming from a big city, I have never seen "church rent-a-bands". All the church bands I have witnessed are believers and lead a ministry of sorts.

But then, I have not seen alot of things. My 18th century personality flaw again.

;0)

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   11:35:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: Samuel Gray (#116)

.all for amusement, education, etc.

I suppose there is lies the difference .. you see it as entertainment and those of faith do not.

Zipporah  posted on  2005-03-16   11:35:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: 1776 (#108)

Never discuss religion, politics, or anything else.

hmmmm...what is it we do, then, with friends? ;)

christine  posted on  2005-03-16   11:37:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: 2Trievers (#55)

Heh. Are you saying "the winners write history?"

Yep. Not only that, they winners wrote the bible and excised the parts that refuted their particular cult.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   11:41:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#114)

Thor is gonna get ya yet, or perhaps Diana, or perhaps Zeus will get you yet, perhaps the earth Goddess will claim you for her own, or perhaps the elephant god will claim you, or perhaps the Sun god Ur will get you yet as well.

Someone elses religion, is someone elses mythology, with me it is ALL mythology.

It is a belief in something that cannot be proven, in order to somehow deal with a life that you are too weak to handle on your own and need the crutch of religion to help you deal with it.

That's fine, if you need a crutch, so be it, but I do NOT need a crutch, or some god of mythology to pray to to take care of me and my life.

Death does not frighten me, I haven't the foggiest notion of what comes after, but I will find out soon enough, why concentrate 10-50% of my life on a concept that I would probably be wrong about anyway. 99.99% of all religions are probably wrong about what comes after, the only reason that they concentrate so hard on it, is beause death scares people and they want to KNOW what comes after.

Christianity is a YOUNG religion, with a BLOODY history, forcing itself into human and pagan societies. Become Christian or die was the choice, problem is, that you can't even decide which Christian sect is right, and if YOUR certain interpratation is indeed the correct one.

I always hear Christians claiming that they alone know the truth, and I always laugh at you, if the bible is indeed God's word, then should just ONE be correct, and which one is it?

Bible the word of God, yeah, right, more like the words of uneducated sheep herders in the case of Genesis, and then some historical fantasies with some modicum of fact attached to them, and then the New Testament made up out of whole cloth by 3rd and 4th hand people that never even met jesus, let alone wrote truly about him.

This whole conversation has been a kick in a half for me, then again, I love these discussions, because I get to watch Christians tear into each other for no apparent reason except they alone have the answer and the other christian, who themselves believe they have the answer just go into psycho mode.

It's just fun to watch..

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-16   11:42:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



      .
      .
      .

Comments (123 - 568) not displayed.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest


[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help]