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Religion
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Title: Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'
Source: Netscape News
URL Source: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news ... 2&dt=20050315130200&w=RTR&covi
Published: Mar 15, 2005
Author: Reuters
Post Date: 2005-03-15 17:59:13 by Mr Nuke Buzzcut
Keywords: Cardinal, Blasts, Cheap
Views: 8592
Comments: 568

Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'

ROME (Reuters) - A top Catholic cardinal has blasted "The Da Vinci Code" as a "gross and absurd" distortion of history and said Catholic bookstores should take the bestseller off their shelves because it is full of "cheap lies."

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, in an interview with the Milan newspaper Il Giornale, became the highest ranking Italian Churchman to speak out against the book, an international blockbuster that has sold millions of copies.

"(It) aims to discredit the Church and its history through gross and absurd manipulations," Bertone, the archbishop of the northern Italian city of Genoa and a close friend of Pope John Paul told the paper in its Monday edition.

"This seems like a throwback to the old anti-clerical pamphlets of the 1800s," he said.

The central claim of the book, written by American Dan Brown, is that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had children. The Bible says Jesus never married, was crucified and rose from the dead.

Bertone's comments were significant because until the Pope named him archbishop of Genoa in 2003 he was for years the number two man at the Vatican's most powerful department - the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

"You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real," he said. "I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that."

HOLY GRAIL

A central storyline of the book is that the Holy Grail is not the cup which Christ is said to have used at the Last Supper but really the bloodline descended from Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Bertone calls this idea "a perversion."

Bertone is so incensed about the novel that he will be the key speaker at a roundtable in Genoa Wednesday night attempting to dismantle the book, which also accuses the Church of covering up the female role in Christianity.

"I will try to clear things up and help form consciences," the cardinal said.

"I think that when faced with affirmations that are so shameful and unfounded, readers who have even a minimum of basic (Christian) formation should react," he said.

He said it was "sad" that even Catholic bookstores were selling The Da Vinci Code "for purely economic reasons."

One bookstore selling "The Da Vinci Code" is the one in the Gemelli Hospital, a Catholic institution where the Pope spent a total of 28 days in two stints in February and March.

In the interview, Bertone firmly rejected the book's claim that the feminine role in Christianity had been suppressed.

"This is one of the most vulgar of inventions. The feminine element is present in all the Gospels," Bertone said.

Bertone also strongly defended Opus Dei, the conservative Church organization that the book depicts as a ruthless, Machiavellian group that resorts even to murder in its attempt to keep the Church's secrets hidden.

The novel is going to reach an even wider audience next year with the release of a film based on the book staring Tom Hanks.

© Copyright Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved. The information contained In this news report may not be published, broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of Reuters Ltd.

03/15/2005 13:02 RTR

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#323. To: justlurking (#318)

It has some basis in historical fact. I have the companion book "Breaking the Code", that discusses some of the historical research and thought behind Brown's book.

Yes, he took artistic license, but there is fire underneath all that smoke, and legends going back into antiquity.

The Catholics don't care much for it on several levels, not the least of which is the relationship between Jesus and the Magdalene, but also because they don't come off in a good light when it comes to manipulating what books went in the Bible and what was omitted.

Divine guidance at times seemed more line eeny meeny miny moe. Or whatever version of that game they used in 760 AD.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   20:47:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#324. To: Samuel Gray (#323)

but also because they don't come off in a good light when it comes to manipulating what books went in the Bible and what was omitted.

One thing the Church has been very good at is manipulating. Took me a long time to see it, but once I did, I was out of there. I still believe in God, Jesus, and in an afterlife. I just go about it through channels other than organized religion now.

Nice to see you btw, gotta go, hubby is due in any minute and he has been gone for almost two weeks. I suspect he won't want me pecking away on the computer and want some supper. BBL

justlurking  posted on  2005-03-16   20:52:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#325. To: Dakmar (#319)

Post it here man, put up or shut up.

I was merely attempting a little levity ... Pope Pious wasn't in drag, but did appear a little intoxicated !

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   20:57:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#326. To: Jhoffa_ (#321)

How will you explain complex things like Christianity, if they can barely dress themselves and fear daily of the chaotic and murderous "Ragheads" running loose in their midst?

How do you explain me?

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   20:57:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#327. To: Everyone except Don (#326)

How do you explain me?

Y'all been getting Don high?

Dakmar  posted on  2005-03-16   21:03:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#328. To: Don (#326)

Don, since this article and the following discussion has both began and then trended toward the abstract... I'm afraid I have no idea what you're referencing here.

You are going to have to be specific if we are going to disagree on anything.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   21:06:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#329. To: Jhoffa_ (#279)

Damning me with faint praise, eh? OK, so I like to stir things a bit. This had the potential for a good discussion for people who have read Brown's book.

Besides, we needed to talk about something besides Gannon and where he stuck his cannon, and the evil Jews are taking over the world scenario.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   21:06:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#330. To: Dakmar (#327)

It's towlie... again!

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   21:07:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#331. To: Samuel Gray (#329)

Nah, just telling the truth.

We both know enough to render the rest of this conversation moot.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   21:09:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#332. To: Jhoffa_ (#331)

Damn...it woulda been fun to discuss Gnostic gospels and the Nag Hammadi scrolls. :)

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   21:13:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#333. To: Samuel Gray (#332)

Ahhh.. Sam, you're wasting your potential..

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   21:14:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#334. To: noone222 (#320)

You want an idea of something messing someone's mind up.

My husband adopted his baby nephew when he married before. They were so afraid of the little guy finding out his real mother was husband's sister, who was married to a little marine who beat the shit out of her, drug her out of the birthing bed to fix him something to eat, etc. They signed the boy over to hubby, as the sister decided to join the military, too.

When the boy was about 14, husband and wife split. The kids had been raised Catholic. It was at this time that the boy started acting up and doing crap to get in trouble.

Turns out he had talked to his Grandpa about who his parents were. This kid was so screwed up trying to meld the religious aspect to legal aspect. In his mind, his mother/aunt and his father/uncle had had an incestous relationship with him being the product!

Further complicate that by husband and his then wife---Catholics don't believe in divorce. She had been divorced before marrying (my) hubby, and didn't have a dispensation or whatever from the church! So the kid thinks she and hubby/dad/uncle were living in sin all that time.

This kid was a real basket case. Just off the deep end......got into drugs. Finally, just before his 18th birthday, he wanted to enlist in the Army and straighten out. He made it through most of the service before medical problems caused his discharge.

So far as I know, he's still fucked up because of it.

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-16   21:21:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#335. To: Jhoffa_ (#328)

How will you explain complex things like Christianity, if they can barely dress themselves and fear daily of the chaotic and murderous "Ragheads" running loose in their midst?

How do you explain me?

Ok, we should agree or disagree on the foundation of the question anyway.

I think that I am able to dress myself and drive a car anyway. I have no fear of the "chaotic and murderous "Ragheads" running loose."

I did not vote for Bush. I voted third party. I am constantly talking in a negative manner about Bush and his cohorts.

I think that I can understand fairly complex things. I turned down joining the Sigma Tau Delta English Society at the university. However today, I joined the university honor society which only something like ten percent of all of the students attending the university can join. There are over 2200 students on campus.

There are other people here who are smart and still defend the Bible, Christians, and Christ.

How do you explain us in your model above?

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   21:22:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#336. To: Don (#335)

How? With a single word: Sarcasm..

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   21:32:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#337. To: Jhoffa_ (#336)

Sarcasm is a wonderful art to develop.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   21:34:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#338. To: noone222 (#138)

My sister had a near death experience, which she detailed for me. I don't say this is proof of anything ... but it's a little shred of evidence !

You may find it compelling, but it does not rise to the level of "evidence."

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   21:51:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#339. To: Continental Op (#141)

You stated that the Bible was a "work of fiction."

And it is. Those of us who read books realize that writers often wrap their fiction around actual historical events. That doesn't magically turn their stories into truth.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   21:52:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#340. To: Continental Op (#142)

why? they died out, under persocution. The Bible didn't. The Bible has endured. how do you account for that?

So... Are you saying that if one religion can wipe out another and destroy all of the writings of the other, that automatically makes the murderous one the truth?

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   21:54:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#341. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#340)

So... Are you saying that if one religion can wipe out another and destroy all of the writings of the other, that automatically makes the murderous one the truth?

Worked for the US during the Civil War. Damned old Confederacy.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-16   21:56:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#342. To: Don (#150)

Counselor, this isn't a court of law. It's your decision to believe or not.

My comments have no relevance to the shenanigans that go on in a court of law. I was speaking to reason, reality and logic. But, if you wish to set reason, reality and logic aside, that indeed is your choice.

In the meantime, we have the First Amendment in this country. Freedom of Religion and all that? I can start a religion worshipping my right, big toe and I don't have to prove a thing.
I've in no way indicated that you should be prevented from worshiping as you please - provided you violate the rights of no person in the process. Have at it. Believe what you will.

Christianity and belief in Christ is much more established than my pretend church. Prove something? Yeah, right. In your dreams. Christianity is here and it will stay here. Sorry 'bout that. No, I'm not.
Lots of religions are here. Some are more populous than christianity. But, popularity is not proof. And, if the cardinal wishes to make accusations against the written works of other, he best look in the mirror first, else he stands to be laughed at for the fool that he makes himself.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:01:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#343. To: Jhoffa_ (#321)

These same people think Saddam had nukes..

No, I don't think they actually thought Saddam had nukes. I think they knew that he did not. They just relished the thought of seeing the opposing religion suffer a few million killed.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:03:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#344. To: rowdee (#334)

Catholics don't believe in divorce.

Did you know that the Bible says "Call no man father but your heavenly Father ?

Right off the bat the Catholic Church commits a misdemeanor violation by making kids call the priests "Father" ... and they are habitual in this effort, having violated this ordinance repeatedly for thousands of years. They have shown no remorse and continue this practice in violation of the Bible.

The Catholic Church also makes rules as it goes, like no meat on Friday, and no Communion with the Lord unless you come to the table "WORTHY". Jesus said do this in remembrance of me, and he also said none are worthy, all men's righteousness is as filthy rags.

Jesus was no bullshit artist and he didn't come here to hang out with the self- righteous hypocrits at the church. He even said a physician comes to heal the sick, not the healthy. That's us, and we don't start getting well until we remember Him, and forget us.

However, the Catholic Church wrongly interprets scripture to keep their followers from "remembering Him".

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   22:03:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#345. To: noone222, Jhoffa_ (#344)

Jesus was no bullshit artist

Jesus Was A Terrorist

Dakmar  posted on  2005-03-16   22:07:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#346. To: rowdee (#229)

You most certainly have the right to believe you evolved from monkeys.

When you learn what evolution ACTUALLY is and what it says, we'll talk, until then, you are just a superstitious ignorant savage as far as I am concerned.

Learn a little science, your mind may actually expand, and you might, just might, learn to think for yourself.

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-16   22:17:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#347. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#338)

My sister had a near death experience, which she detailed for me. I don't say this is proof of anything ... but it's a little shred of evidence !

You may find it compelling, but it does not rise to the level of "evidence."

It's the best I could do on such short notice. What do you have for opposing evidence ? Make it "compelling" !

noone222  posted on  2005-03-16   22:21:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#348. To: Jhoffa_ (#275)

Poor Jhoffa, where else are you going to get fighters for a revolution? The high and mighty muckety mucks of the Roman Empire?

Get a grip on reality......

If you know your history, and I assume that you at least know a itsy bitsy bit, the romans controlled the middle east in those days, and Israel did NOT exist.

The "Messiah" was the Jewish Priest/warrior/king who would rightfully be the King of Israel, and throw the Romans out of Israel.

Jesus was that man, he was rightful heir to the throne of David, but he FAILED, and failed miserably, therefore, the Jews do not and cannot accept him as the Messiah.

Learn a little history, PLEASE......

BTW, when many of the Scriptures are looked at in that light, a lot of the weird ones become MOST evident of what Jesus was actually trying to do, and why, when the Romans came after his little butt, he faked his death and fled the country.

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-16   22:22:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#349. To: Aric2000 (#348)

John 6: 14

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   22:30:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#350. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#342)

"I was speaking to reason, reality and logic. But, if you wish to set reason, reality and logic aside, that indeed is your choice."

Reason, reality, and logic. Ok, those things will do for a start. How do you prove the existence of God? A better question would be how do you disprove the existence of God when you can look up and see the stars and other bodies there or look here on earth and see the things that have been created here?

Is it reasonable, real, or logical to think all of these things just popped into existence one morning. Where did they come from? There has to be a beginning to physical things. There has to be as Plato might put it the real or original from which all other similar things are copies.

If there is a God, would He abandon his creation or get bored with it? Lets consider the case of a father and a son for a moment. Would most human fathers abandon his son. A son is a copy of the father. We are told that God made man in His image in the Bible. You don't believe in the Bible? Use your own human experience. Would you abandon a child made in your image? Most men wouldn't.

Oh, I forgot. You don't believe in the Bible so how do we know that man is made in God's image? Well, something was made in God's image. You don't create something out of a vacuum. Lets consider just the animals are made in God's image. Or just the earth itself is made from God's image. Well, God created all of those things. If most men would not abandon their creation, why would God? It isn't reasonable, real, or logical to think that everything was just created without a supreme maker or that the supreme maker would just abandon His creation.

What about Christ? We still don't believe in the Holy Bible so lets toss it out for the moment. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus has some comments in his history that might be of interest to you.

The Holy Bible, of course, is still the main source of information about Christ and Christianity. Paul never met Christ, but he knew Peter and other disciples who did know Christ. Paul got his information from the people who personally knew Christ and were with him from the beginning of his ministry to the end of his time on earth. If there are books that were left out of the Holy Bible, still Paul knew those people who knew Christ. So, his version of what happened must be true.

Wait a minute. You say that Paul's writings were filtered and even changed to make the man Jesus into Christ, the son of God? The true story is that Jesus died as a man and never rose on that third day. And, that the Jews are right in still awaiting their king. There comes that dividing line between faith and disbelief, right? The smart people are on the side of disbelief. The other side...well...they should know better to put it charitably.

Ok, is the Bible correct in simple facts like the existence of long dead cities? Archeologists are constantly coming up with their findings. So, if the Bible is right in one thing maybe other things are also true. Biblical prophecy is an interesting area. It even talks about the rebirth of Israel some 2,000 years later. Gee, it was just a lucky guess, I suppose.

"provided you violate the rights of no person in the process. Have at it. Believe what you will. "

Thank you for your courtesy. I appreciate you allowing me to do that. I would also appreciate it if you don't violate any rights that Christians might have such as being allowed to obey what they think is the will of God in certain matters such as preaching the gospel.

"if the cardinal wishes to make accusations against the written works of other, he best look in the mirror first, else he stands to be laughed at for the fool that he makes himself. "

You can send the Pope a letter and advise him of that if you wish. He might even take the time to read it. I am not a Catholic so I don't take great exception to you calling him a fool, but I am sure that many Roman Catholics would take exception with you on that statement.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:34:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#351. To: Aric2000 (#348)

PS:

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   22:36:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#352. To: Don (#350)

How do you prove the existence of God?

It would be a simple exercise - if he in fact existed. But, since he does not, you are forced to play word games and delve into logical fallacy in order to obfuscate an appearance of proof.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:39:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#353. To: Jhoffa_ (#351)

it's the thread that never ends!
it just goes on and on my friends!
Somebody started posting it
not knowing what it was!
Now we'll continue posting it
Foreverjust because......

Sing along everyone! Second Verse - Same as the First!!!

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   22:41:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#354. To: Don (#350)

Thank you for your courtesy. I appreciate you allowing me to do that. I would also appreciate it if you don't violate any rights that Christians might have such as being allowed to obey what they think is the will of God in certain matters such as preaching the gospel.

You are welcome to preach - on your own property. Just don't expect me to be swayed by the silliness.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:41:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#355. To: Aric2000, rowdee (#346)

When you learn what evolution ACTUALLY is and what it says, we'll talk, until then, you are just a superstitious ignorant savage as far as I am concerned.

When you get a little time, could you see your way clear to educating us "superstitious ignorant savages." We could use your help.

For example, is it true that evolution teaches that man evolved from the apes? A yes or no answer here would be of interest to us all.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:42:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#356. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#354)

The property is the world. That is how it goes. You just aren't safe anywhere.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:42:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#357. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#352)

How do you prove the existence of God? It would be a simple exercise -

Then please do so sir, I (among others) would like to see said proof.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   22:42:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#358. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#357)

Then please do so sir, I (among others) would like to see said proof.

I am not the one asserting his existence, so I am not the one in a position to be challenged to prove his existence. You should have posted that challenge to Don.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:44:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#359. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#352)

A much better example of a fallacy of logic is to deny what is in front of your face. You qualify for that award much better than I.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:44:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#360. To: Don (#356)

The property is the world. That is how it goes. You just aren't safe anywhere.

You don't own the world. Your free speech rights end at the borders of your property. If you wish to preach at me on my property, then you are a trespasser and will be treated as such.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:45:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#361. To: Don (#355)

superstitious ignorant savages

I suppose he can tell us "savages" by our "Bible Thumping"?

THUMPTHUMPTHUMPTHUMPTHUMP!

;0)

Or can he tell us by our cannibalism?

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   22:45:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#362. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#358)

so I am not the one in a position to be challenged to prove his existence

You are much more challenged in denying it.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:45:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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