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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'
Source: Netscape News
URL Source: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news ... 2&dt=20050315130200&w=RTR&covi
Published: Mar 15, 2005
Author: Reuters
Post Date: 2005-03-15 17:59:13 by Mr Nuke Buzzcut
Keywords: Cardinal, Blasts, Cheap
Views: 8524
Comments: 568

Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'

ROME (Reuters) - A top Catholic cardinal has blasted "The Da Vinci Code" as a "gross and absurd" distortion of history and said Catholic bookstores should take the bestseller off their shelves because it is full of "cheap lies."

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, in an interview with the Milan newspaper Il Giornale, became the highest ranking Italian Churchman to speak out against the book, an international blockbuster that has sold millions of copies.

"(It) aims to discredit the Church and its history through gross and absurd manipulations," Bertone, the archbishop of the northern Italian city of Genoa and a close friend of Pope John Paul told the paper in its Monday edition.

"This seems like a throwback to the old anti-clerical pamphlets of the 1800s," he said.

The central claim of the book, written by American Dan Brown, is that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had children. The Bible says Jesus never married, was crucified and rose from the dead.

Bertone's comments were significant because until the Pope named him archbishop of Genoa in 2003 he was for years the number two man at the Vatican's most powerful department - the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

"You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real," he said. "I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that."

HOLY GRAIL

A central storyline of the book is that the Holy Grail is not the cup which Christ is said to have used at the Last Supper but really the bloodline descended from Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Bertone calls this idea "a perversion."

Bertone is so incensed about the novel that he will be the key speaker at a roundtable in Genoa Wednesday night attempting to dismantle the book, which also accuses the Church of covering up the female role in Christianity.

"I will try to clear things up and help form consciences," the cardinal said.

"I think that when faced with affirmations that are so shameful and unfounded, readers who have even a minimum of basic (Christian) formation should react," he said.

He said it was "sad" that even Catholic bookstores were selling The Da Vinci Code "for purely economic reasons."

One bookstore selling "The Da Vinci Code" is the one in the Gemelli Hospital, a Catholic institution where the Pope spent a total of 28 days in two stints in February and March.

In the interview, Bertone firmly rejected the book's claim that the feminine role in Christianity had been suppressed.

"This is one of the most vulgar of inventions. The feminine element is present in all the Gospels," Bertone said.

Bertone also strongly defended Opus Dei, the conservative Church organization that the book depicts as a ruthless, Machiavellian group that resorts even to murder in its attempt to keep the Church's secrets hidden.

The novel is going to reach an even wider audience next year with the release of a film based on the book staring Tom Hanks.

© Copyright Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved. The information contained In this news report may not be published, broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of Reuters Ltd.

03/15/2005 13:02 RTR

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#350. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#342)

"I was speaking to reason, reality and logic. But, if you wish to set reason, reality and logic aside, that indeed is your choice."

Reason, reality, and logic. Ok, those things will do for a start. How do you prove the existence of God? A better question would be how do you disprove the existence of God when you can look up and see the stars and other bodies there or look here on earth and see the things that have been created here?

Is it reasonable, real, or logical to think all of these things just popped into existence one morning. Where did they come from? There has to be a beginning to physical things. There has to be as Plato might put it the real or original from which all other similar things are copies.

If there is a God, would He abandon his creation or get bored with it? Lets consider the case of a father and a son for a moment. Would most human fathers abandon his son. A son is a copy of the father. We are told that God made man in His image in the Bible. You don't believe in the Bible? Use your own human experience. Would you abandon a child made in your image? Most men wouldn't.

Oh, I forgot. You don't believe in the Bible so how do we know that man is made in God's image? Well, something was made in God's image. You don't create something out of a vacuum. Lets consider just the animals are made in God's image. Or just the earth itself is made from God's image. Well, God created all of those things. If most men would not abandon their creation, why would God? It isn't reasonable, real, or logical to think that everything was just created without a supreme maker or that the supreme maker would just abandon His creation.

What about Christ? We still don't believe in the Holy Bible so lets toss it out for the moment. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus has some comments in his history that might be of interest to you.

The Holy Bible, of course, is still the main source of information about Christ and Christianity. Paul never met Christ, but he knew Peter and other disciples who did know Christ. Paul got his information from the people who personally knew Christ and were with him from the beginning of his ministry to the end of his time on earth. If there are books that were left out of the Holy Bible, still Paul knew those people who knew Christ. So, his version of what happened must be true.

Wait a minute. You say that Paul's writings were filtered and even changed to make the man Jesus into Christ, the son of God? The true story is that Jesus died as a man and never rose on that third day. And, that the Jews are right in still awaiting their king. There comes that dividing line between faith and disbelief, right? The smart people are on the side of disbelief. The other side...well...they should know better to put it charitably.

Ok, is the Bible correct in simple facts like the existence of long dead cities? Archeologists are constantly coming up with their findings. So, if the Bible is right in one thing maybe other things are also true. Biblical prophecy is an interesting area. It even talks about the rebirth of Israel some 2,000 years later. Gee, it was just a lucky guess, I suppose.

"provided you violate the rights of no person in the process. Have at it. Believe what you will. "

Thank you for your courtesy. I appreciate you allowing me to do that. I would also appreciate it if you don't violate any rights that Christians might have such as being allowed to obey what they think is the will of God in certain matters such as preaching the gospel.

"if the cardinal wishes to make accusations against the written works of other, he best look in the mirror first, else he stands to be laughed at for the fool that he makes himself. "

You can send the Pope a letter and advise him of that if you wish. He might even take the time to read it. I am not a Catholic so I don't take great exception to you calling him a fool, but I am sure that many Roman Catholics would take exception with you on that statement.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:34:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#351. To: Aric2000 (#348)

PS:

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-16   22:36:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#352. To: Don (#350)

How do you prove the existence of God?

It would be a simple exercise - if he in fact existed. But, since he does not, you are forced to play word games and delve into logical fallacy in order to obfuscate an appearance of proof.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:39:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#353. To: Jhoffa_ (#351)

it's the thread that never ends!
it just goes on and on my friends!
Somebody started posting it
not knowing what it was!
Now we'll continue posting it
Foreverjust because......

Sing along everyone! Second Verse - Same as the First!!!

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   22:41:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#354. To: Don (#350)

Thank you for your courtesy. I appreciate you allowing me to do that. I would also appreciate it if you don't violate any rights that Christians might have such as being allowed to obey what they think is the will of God in certain matters such as preaching the gospel.

You are welcome to preach - on your own property. Just don't expect me to be swayed by the silliness.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:41:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#355. To: Aric2000, rowdee (#346)

When you learn what evolution ACTUALLY is and what it says, we'll talk, until then, you are just a superstitious ignorant savage as far as I am concerned.

When you get a little time, could you see your way clear to educating us "superstitious ignorant savages." We could use your help.

For example, is it true that evolution teaches that man evolved from the apes? A yes or no answer here would be of interest to us all.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:42:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#356. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#354)

The property is the world. That is how it goes. You just aren't safe anywhere.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:42:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#357. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#352)

How do you prove the existence of God? It would be a simple exercise -

Then please do so sir, I (among others) would like to see said proof.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   22:42:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#358. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#357)

Then please do so sir, I (among others) would like to see said proof.

I am not the one asserting his existence, so I am not the one in a position to be challenged to prove his existence. You should have posted that challenge to Don.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:44:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#359. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#352)

A much better example of a fallacy of logic is to deny what is in front of your face. You qualify for that award much better than I.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:44:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#360. To: Don (#356)

The property is the world. That is how it goes. You just aren't safe anywhere.

You don't own the world. Your free speech rights end at the borders of your property. If you wish to preach at me on my property, then you are a trespasser and will be treated as such.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:45:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#361. To: Don (#355)

superstitious ignorant savages

I suppose he can tell us "savages" by our "Bible Thumping"?

THUMPTHUMPTHUMPTHUMPTHUMP!

;0)

Or can he tell us by our cannibalism?

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   22:45:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#362. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#358)

so I am not the one in a position to be challenged to prove his existence

You are much more challenged in denying it.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:45:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#363. To: Don (#359)

A much better example of a fallacy of logic is to deny what is in front of your face. You qualify for that award much better than I.

In front of my face? No, there's no god there. Just a computer. Do you worship bits-n-bytes?

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:46:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#364. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#358)

But you were the one who said it would be a simple exercise, right?

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   22:46:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#365. To: Don (#362)

You are much more challenged in denying it.

If you understood even a shred of logic, you would know how comical your position is.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:47:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#366. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#364)

But you were the one who said it would be a simple exercise, right?

Indeed it would be simple -- IF SUCH A THING AS A god EXISTED. It is a simple matter to prove existence of things that exist. Something as significant as a god would be the easiest of all -- if it existed.

But, it does not. That's why believers have never been able to produce him.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:49:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#367. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#363)

In front of my face? No, there's no god there. Just a computer.

Then, you are very blind indeed.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:50:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#368. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#366)

You want God to prove His existence to you say...in a courtroom? Or, maybe in your living room would be a better place for your immediate comfort? God is all around you and you can't see him because you believe He is there. I point out the heavens and everything here on earth as created things from a source, and you blow right past it. You don't want to face that issue. It might cause you to think, and in time it might even cause you to doubt your doubt. We couldn't have that, could we?

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:52:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#369. To: Don (#367)

Then, you are very blind indeed.

Not at all. I don't see ghosts, angels, supernatural beings, fairies, dragons, easter bunnies or gods. Why? Because they just aren't there. I refuse to subvert my mind and pretend that these fantasies exist. But, if you ever come up with some actual verifiable evidence, let me know.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:53:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#370. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#366)

That's why believers have never been able to produce him.

And science has never been able to discount Him.

this is a round robin argument that is making no head way. Neither side will be swayed. Let's just talk about the thread topic - what ever it was.

minds are not gonna be a changin' I know mine isn't and I am fairly sure your's isn't either.

Truce???

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   22:53:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#371. To: All (#368)

Fast typing: because you don't believe He is there

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:53:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#372. To: Aric2000 (#346)

Fredwin on Evolution

your opinion, Aric?

christine  posted on  2005-03-16   22:53:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#373. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#369)

Why? Because they just aren't there.

Not good enough. You are not addressing what I said about created things.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:54:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#374. To: Don (#368)

You want God to prove His existence to you say...in a courtroom? Or, maybe in your living room would be a better place for your immediate comfort? God is all around you and you can't see him because you believe He is there. I point out the heavens and everything here on earth as created things from a source, and you blow right past it. You don't want to face that issue. It might cause you to think, and in time it might even cause you to doubt your doubt. We couldn't have that, could we?

What is it with this courtroom fetish of yours?

You point to everything EXCEPT your god. If you want to prove the existence of something, then you have to actually present proof of THAT THING! You can't prove that the planet Venus exists by pointing to your Ford Pinto. But hey, if that's all you've got...

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:55:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#375. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#374)

But hey, if that's all you've got...

You aren't even trying. Who created the universe and earth?

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:56:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#376. To: Don (#368)

Don, lets just call a truce - or this thread will never die.

We both know the existence of God. Mr. Buzzcut and other deny it. That is their choice. I admire your tenacity, and I am sure God has worked miracles in your life, as He has mine.

Neither side is going to budge and I hate to see anyone be labled "savages" or "heathens".

Let's just call it a night? okay?

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   22:57:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#377. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#370)

Truce???

I do not wish to convert you to atheism. You'll do that on your own when you are ready.

I just enjoy the process of debate on this topic because for so many years religion has demanded compliance at the point of a sword.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:58:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#378. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#361)

Maybe he gets that one from Bambi. I have been watching Bambi. I think Feline is a cute little doe. Anyway, remember the rabbit, Thumper?

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:59:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#379. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#376)

Let's just call it a night? okay?

I was just starting to have fun. But, He can't answer my questions anyway.

Have you bought Bambi yet?

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   23:00:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#380. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#366)

you shared with me, once, something about a past vocation which makes your current belief system an enigma..or perhaps it was the antecedent?

christine  posted on  2005-03-16   23:04:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#381. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#377)

You'll do that on your own when you are ready

Never going to happen sir, not in this lifetime.

And with that, I will bid you a good night!

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   23:09:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#382. To: Aric2000 (#346)

Aric, when you do a hard study of the resurrection, why don't you get back to us with something beyond a hahaha.

I don't consider you a superstitious anything, nor a savage, nor ignorant--just unlearned in some areas.

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-16   23:19:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#383. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#370)

And science has never been able to discount Him.

And that has been my point from the getgo of debating this stupid topic.

Science can't use god, because god is nonfalsifiable, therefore ANYTHING that claims that god did it, had a hand in it, or some miracle occurred is NOT scientific.

At the same time, Science cannot disrpove that god exists, therefore, Science cannot and will not touch the topic of god.

Any scientist that says that god does not exist because the facts prove it, is full of crap, and anyone that says science is crap because it discounts god, is ALSO full of crap.

Science cannot disprove god, and religion cannot prove that god exists.

Bit of a quandry there, but neither can disprove the other, and will NEVER be able to.

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-17   0:20:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#384. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#361)

THUMPTHUMPTHUMPTHUMPTHUMP!

I heard that! ROTFLMAO.......

I think someone is mixed up.....that 'thumpity thump thump' sound goes with Peter Rabbit, or was it the Easter Bunny our friend was lamenting early on in this thread?

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-17   0:20:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#385. To: rowdee (#382)

The resurrection, oohhh, shall we discuss?

That will be fun...

The resurrection of Jesus NEVER happened, BTW, it was faked, he FLED the holy land, for his life. The sherriff was after his ass and his families ass to.

Best thing to do, pay off the magistrate, fake your death and run like hell.

Which is EXACTLY what happened.

BTW, the raising of Lazarus, was a mystical exercise, Lazarus was Never really dead, he died of his old life, and was reborn again. Interesting that, huh?

He was literally put into a tomb, and then his teacher, his mentor, would come in, wake him up from his death and bring him back into his new life of enlightenment.

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-17   0:23:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#386. To: rowdee (#384)

or was it the Easter Bunny our friend was lamenting early on in this thread?

Damn, I missed that post, can you point me to it, this thread is getting REALLY long....LOL

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-17   0:25:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#387. To: Dakmar (#265)

Did you know there is no such thing as time? It's all an illusion!

Diana  posted on  2005-03-17   3:13:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#388. To: crack monkey, Jhoffa_, FormerLurker (#289)

They're pretty much all cornholers over there too - Trace, BAC and numerous other funny types.

BAC? BAC??!

Please say it isn't so!

Diana  posted on  2005-03-17   3:20:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#389. To: Jhoffa_ (#349)

Cast not your pearls before swine !

noone222  posted on  2005-03-17   4:08:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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