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Religion
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Title: Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'
Source: Netscape News
URL Source: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news ... 2&dt=20050315130200&w=RTR&covi
Published: Mar 15, 2005
Author: Reuters
Post Date: 2005-03-15 17:59:13 by Mr Nuke Buzzcut
Keywords: Cardinal, Blasts, Cheap
Views: 8965
Comments: 568

Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'

ROME (Reuters) - A top Catholic cardinal has blasted "The Da Vinci Code" as a "gross and absurd" distortion of history and said Catholic bookstores should take the bestseller off their shelves because it is full of "cheap lies."

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, in an interview with the Milan newspaper Il Giornale, became the highest ranking Italian Churchman to speak out against the book, an international blockbuster that has sold millions of copies.

"(It) aims to discredit the Church and its history through gross and absurd manipulations," Bertone, the archbishop of the northern Italian city of Genoa and a close friend of Pope John Paul told the paper in its Monday edition.

"This seems like a throwback to the old anti-clerical pamphlets of the 1800s," he said.

The central claim of the book, written by American Dan Brown, is that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had children. The Bible says Jesus never married, was crucified and rose from the dead.

Bertone's comments were significant because until the Pope named him archbishop of Genoa in 2003 he was for years the number two man at the Vatican's most powerful department - the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

"You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real," he said. "I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that."

HOLY GRAIL

A central storyline of the book is that the Holy Grail is not the cup which Christ is said to have used at the Last Supper but really the bloodline descended from Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Bertone calls this idea "a perversion."

Bertone is so incensed about the novel that he will be the key speaker at a roundtable in Genoa Wednesday night attempting to dismantle the book, which also accuses the Church of covering up the female role in Christianity.

"I will try to clear things up and help form consciences," the cardinal said.

"I think that when faced with affirmations that are so shameful and unfounded, readers who have even a minimum of basic (Christian) formation should react," he said.

He said it was "sad" that even Catholic bookstores were selling The Da Vinci Code "for purely economic reasons."

One bookstore selling "The Da Vinci Code" is the one in the Gemelli Hospital, a Catholic institution where the Pope spent a total of 28 days in two stints in February and March.

In the interview, Bertone firmly rejected the book's claim that the feminine role in Christianity had been suppressed.

"This is one of the most vulgar of inventions. The feminine element is present in all the Gospels," Bertone said.

Bertone also strongly defended Opus Dei, the conservative Church organization that the book depicts as a ruthless, Machiavellian group that resorts even to murder in its attempt to keep the Church's secrets hidden.

The novel is going to reach an even wider audience next year with the release of a film based on the book staring Tom Hanks.

© Copyright Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved. The information contained In this news report may not be published, broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of Reuters Ltd.

03/15/2005 13:02 RTR

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#368. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#366)

You want God to prove His existence to you say...in a courtroom? Or, maybe in your living room would be a better place for your immediate comfort? God is all around you and you can't see him because you believe He is there. I point out the heavens and everything here on earth as created things from a source, and you blow right past it. You don't want to face that issue. It might cause you to think, and in time it might even cause you to doubt your doubt. We couldn't have that, could we?

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:52:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#369. To: Don (#367)

Then, you are very blind indeed.

Not at all. I don't see ghosts, angels, supernatural beings, fairies, dragons, easter bunnies or gods. Why? Because they just aren't there. I refuse to subvert my mind and pretend that these fantasies exist. But, if you ever come up with some actual verifiable evidence, let me know.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:53:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#370. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#366)

That's why believers have never been able to produce him.

And science has never been able to discount Him.

this is a round robin argument that is making no head way. Neither side will be swayed. Let's just talk about the thread topic - what ever it was.

minds are not gonna be a changin' I know mine isn't and I am fairly sure your's isn't either.

Truce???

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   22:53:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#371. To: All (#368)

Fast typing: because you don't believe He is there

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:53:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#372. To: Aric2000 (#346)

Fredwin on Evolution

your opinion, Aric?

christine  posted on  2005-03-16   22:53:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#373. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#369)

Why? Because they just aren't there.

Not good enough. You are not addressing what I said about created things.

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:54:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#374. To: Don (#368)

You want God to prove His existence to you say...in a courtroom? Or, maybe in your living room would be a better place for your immediate comfort? God is all around you and you can't see him because you believe He is there. I point out the heavens and everything here on earth as created things from a source, and you blow right past it. You don't want to face that issue. It might cause you to think, and in time it might even cause you to doubt your doubt. We couldn't have that, could we?

What is it with this courtroom fetish of yours?

You point to everything EXCEPT your god. If you want to prove the existence of something, then you have to actually present proof of THAT THING! You can't prove that the planet Venus exists by pointing to your Ford Pinto. But hey, if that's all you've got...

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:55:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#375. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#374)

But hey, if that's all you've got...

You aren't even trying. Who created the universe and earth?

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:56:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#376. To: Don (#368)

Don, lets just call a truce - or this thread will never die.

We both know the existence of God. Mr. Buzzcut and other deny it. That is their choice. I admire your tenacity, and I am sure God has worked miracles in your life, as He has mine.

Neither side is going to budge and I hate to see anyone be labled "savages" or "heathens".

Let's just call it a night? okay?

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   22:57:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#377. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#370)

Truce???

I do not wish to convert you to atheism. You'll do that on your own when you are ready.

I just enjoy the process of debate on this topic because for so many years religion has demanded compliance at the point of a sword.

Mr Nuke Buzzcut  posted on  2005-03-16   22:58:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#378. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#361)

Maybe he gets that one from Bambi. I have been watching Bambi. I think Feline is a cute little doe. Anyway, remember the rabbit, Thumper?

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   22:59:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#379. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#376)

Let's just call it a night? okay?

I was just starting to have fun. But, He can't answer my questions anyway.

Have you bought Bambi yet?

Don  posted on  2005-03-16   23:00:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#380. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#366)

you shared with me, once, something about a past vocation which makes your current belief system an enigma..or perhaps it was the antecedent?

christine  posted on  2005-03-16   23:04:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#381. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#377)

You'll do that on your own when you are ready

Never going to happen sir, not in this lifetime.

And with that, I will bid you a good night!

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-16   23:09:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#382. To: Aric2000 (#346)

Aric, when you do a hard study of the resurrection, why don't you get back to us with something beyond a hahaha.

I don't consider you a superstitious anything, nor a savage, nor ignorant--just unlearned in some areas.

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-16   23:19:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#383. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#370)

And science has never been able to discount Him.

And that has been my point from the getgo of debating this stupid topic.

Science can't use god, because god is nonfalsifiable, therefore ANYTHING that claims that god did it, had a hand in it, or some miracle occurred is NOT scientific.

At the same time, Science cannot disrpove that god exists, therefore, Science cannot and will not touch the topic of god.

Any scientist that says that god does not exist because the facts prove it, is full of crap, and anyone that says science is crap because it discounts god, is ALSO full of crap.

Science cannot disprove god, and religion cannot prove that god exists.

Bit of a quandry there, but neither can disprove the other, and will NEVER be able to.

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-17   0:20:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#384. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#361)

THUMPTHUMPTHUMPTHUMPTHUMP!

I heard that! ROTFLMAO.......

I think someone is mixed up.....that 'thumpity thump thump' sound goes with Peter Rabbit, or was it the Easter Bunny our friend was lamenting early on in this thread?

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-17   0:20:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#385. To: rowdee (#382)

The resurrection, oohhh, shall we discuss?

That will be fun...

The resurrection of Jesus NEVER happened, BTW, it was faked, he FLED the holy land, for his life. The sherriff was after his ass and his families ass to.

Best thing to do, pay off the magistrate, fake your death and run like hell.

Which is EXACTLY what happened.

BTW, the raising of Lazarus, was a mystical exercise, Lazarus was Never really dead, he died of his old life, and was reborn again. Interesting that, huh?

He was literally put into a tomb, and then his teacher, his mentor, would come in, wake him up from his death and bring him back into his new life of enlightenment.

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-17   0:23:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#386. To: rowdee (#384)

or was it the Easter Bunny our friend was lamenting early on in this thread?

Damn, I missed that post, can you point me to it, this thread is getting REALLY long....LOL

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-17   0:25:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#387. To: Dakmar (#265)

Did you know there is no such thing as time? It's all an illusion!

Diana  posted on  2005-03-17   3:13:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#388. To: crack monkey, Jhoffa_, FormerLurker (#289)

They're pretty much all cornholers over there too - Trace, BAC and numerous other funny types.

BAC? BAC??!

Please say it isn't so!

Diana  posted on  2005-03-17   3:20:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#389. To: Jhoffa_ (#349)

Cast not your pearls before swine !

noone222  posted on  2005-03-17   4:08:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#390. To: Aric2000 (#385)

BTW, the raising of Lazarus, was a mystical exercise, Lazarus was Never really dead, he died of his old life, and was reborn again. Interesting that, huh?

He was literally put into a tomb, and then his teacher, his mentor, would come in, wake him up from his death and bring him back into his new life of enlightenment.

That's a Skull and Bones ... Secret Society mystical practice that is the satanic practice, Christ's followers were baptized in water.

Lazarus was in the tomb, 4 days, wrapped in the death cloth, while at the same time his sister (Mary Magdalene) and others were in mourning at the house. The Scriptures note that his body smelled like one would after being dead for 4 days.

Where did Lazarus die ? Where was he buried ?

noone222  posted on  2005-03-17   4:22:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#391. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#374)

All human speech, (verbal or written), that does not concern factual physical matters, and that is not mere social lubricant, is about a -- “Search For The Truth.” Men may call their particular activity the study of: History, Anthropology, Psychology, Philosophy, Theology, Sociology, Political Science, The Liberal Arts, etc, but the underlying reality is and has always been the same thing: A search for -- “THE TRUTH.”

You do not have to be an academic, or even know how to speel, “philosophy” to be so engaged for every time a man talks about the kinda guy he is, or comments on one football team’s superiority, or denounces some other person’s opinions on any subject, the man is engaged in -- A Search For “The Truth.”

Note that I put, “The Truth” in quotation marks, since even though, everybody believes it exists, there is no common agreement as to how it can be objectively recognized.

A man telling you about the kinda guy he is, is searching for the TRUTH about what he is via his endless, self-centered palaver, yet there is no pre-established standard set by which he will be able to ultimately recognize the truth about what he is as separate from all that he has said about himself that is not. And men debating the relative merits of different sports teams have no final, impartial model by which to make a conclusive determination of, “The Truth” about which is the better team. And verbal tug-of-battles in all other second reality areas such as: politics, religion, economics, morality, are in the same situation. The cellular activity in men’s brains called, the mind, is in a relentless search for, “The Truth,” but will admit to having no advance notion as to how it is to be correctly recognized -- if found. (The popularity of religions is based on their claims of having such knowledge from extrinsic, suprahuman sources; brain cells pointing their little fingers away from themselves as they insist that the image they just made up ACTUALLY EXISTS! -- “just over there somewhere.”)

Those of a more metaphysically wired mind of course, profess it to BE, “Metaphysical,” perhaps being SO removed from everyday life as to be beyond human comprehension, (but fun to think about anyway), but as is always the case, (if not the sixpack), to a clear channel eye -- the matter is not nearly so uncertain -- it’s just a matter of the mind being a creature of a reality of which it was also the creator -- which, pragmatically, results in a situation wherein, (as should be a surprise to no one), an eyeball in a Dali painting cannot, even with its very best efforts, ever see itself in context, or perceive its origin. The Little Mermaid can never recognize Christian Anderson as, “The Truth.”

The “Truth” is what happens.

There it is, and there is nothing else to say. The first word said after that is useless, and any after that -- misdirective.

But note: even after hearing the truth about, “The Truth,” your mind is probably not instantly Enlightened, and satisfied -- it still wants to argue and debate the issue; pick holes in the sentence; accuse it of gross “materialism,” (Ooooooo! the mystic’s ultimate insult & dismissal!)

But there it is and there it remains: The “Truth” is what happens.

The instinct mind of the brain knows this full well, always has, ‘s’never been in question; the entire life of your body operates by the principle; it is your hand selecting; your mouth opening; your throat swallowing; your stomach accepting, your bowels boweling so that life in your case – goes on, all based on this simple reality:

The truth is what happens.

…(and of course if you somehow ate poison -- you died, and that was the “truth” of what happened in that particular instance.)

The routine cellular activity that produces thought in our brains is not arranged in such a manner as to act like a mouth that can swallow itself…. ….which is about what it takes to, “Wake up”; ordinary thought cannot take in completely the reality of those five words: ”The truth is what happens” in that it is immediately unable to see that what EVER comment it may have in reaction thereto IS now a part of “what happened” -- that every time your thought denies the truth of the statement, your denial becomes part OF the truth of the statement.

Trying to shake your brain’s cellular activity of consciousness into a new mode of operating is truly akin to a mouth attempting to swallow itself, and staying frustrated, and unable to accomplish this is due simply to your failure to recognize how things are in your own neural headquarters.

Your heart, lungs and all the rest of your body know that -- “The Truth” is what happens, but the thoughts that normally occupy your mind never will -- they never can. The job of thoughts is to think about what happens in life in ways OTHER THAN it is, for only by so operating is man able to change the natural conditions of this planet to better accommodate his particular needs, and while neural activity is a boon to his physical life, it seems disinclined to do anything beneficial for itself, in the sense of self-scrutiny & revelation, the very stuff of specific interest to those men already being driven by their own neurons urging to, ”Search for The Truth” – (which in truth IS): a search for the truth about thought.

…and in this -- you get no natural help from your own thoughts. What a game! -- what a sport, the reality of which, few -- even among, “The Few” -- ever come to realize.

The simplicity of it completely confuses the mind; the brain does not produce thoughts for the purpose of dealing with simplicities -- Nay, on the contrary, thought is specifically constructed to work with the physical complexities that are the conditions of life, and to break them down into simpler, mentally manageable pieces, but thought, as now constructed, is not built nor intended for the contemplation of the simple and obvious,and is not programmed to have an interest in how thing ARE, but rather, as they COULD be; not interested in the “Truth” of what happens, but an open-ended, “Truth” that is forever arguable.

The “Truth” about things, to a man’s ordinary thinking, is whatever his thinking can momentarily imagine they COULD be, while the truth to superheated thinking is:

What ever happens -

-- not whatever the thoughts in your brain SAY happened; not whatever they say COULD have happened, and not anything they say SHOULD have happened; this is what makes up "the truth" of ordinary reality, but is not the one perceived by a man who can see-to-the-bottom-of-things; he takes into account only what happens, both -- “out there" (in life), and, ”in here” -- in what is apparently -- him.

Nothing that will ever naturally pass through your mind will ever reveal to you, “the truth” about things; only the things themselves can do that -- and they do so -- relentlessly! Life is revealing to you, "the Truth" at every moment, by letting you witness what actually -- happens.

It is then up to you whether you see it or not, and recognize that what you see happening is the long sought-for “Truth" -- and that there IS no other.

….simple, huh?! and neater’an the curl in a pig’s tail.

Oink! -- galahad -- oink.

2Trievers  posted on  2005-03-17   5:20:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#392. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#0)

The novel is going to reach an even wider audience next year with the release of a film based on the book staring Tom Hanks.

I'm not surprised Tom Hanks would be in a movie like this. I sincerely hope this movie flops.

RickyJ  posted on  2005-03-17   5:35:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#393. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#340)

So... Are you saying that if one religion can wipe out another and destroy all of the writings of the other, that automatically makes the murderous one the truth?

The Bible is a religion? The Gnostic Gospels are a religion?

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-17   7:59:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#394. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#339)

And it is. Those of us who read books realize that writers often wrap their fiction around actual historical events. That doesn't magically turn their stories into truth.

And here we stand at loggerheads, as Don said earlier. You can't prove that is.. .I can't prove to you that it isn't...

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-17   8:04:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#395. To: Continental Op, all (#394)

You can't prove that is.. .I can't prove to you that it isn't...

which is why I generally aviod theological arguments: they resolve little and prove even less.

But I do have this question for the more theologically inclined here: Do dogs go to heaven? Do living being other than humans go to heaven?

wbales  posted on  2005-03-17   8:09:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#396. To: RickyJ (#392)

I'm not surprised Tom Hanks would be in a movie like this. I sincerely hope this movie flops.

I imagine Mel Gibson won't be among the producers.

wbales  posted on  2005-03-17   8:10:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#397. To: wbales (#395)

But I do have this question for the more theologically inclined here: Do dogs go to heaven? Do living being other than humans go to heaven?

Got A Bible?

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-17   8:11:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#398. To: Continental Op (#397)

Got A Bible?

I think there is one here somewhere. Do you know what page?

wbales  posted on  2005-03-17   8:13:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#399. To: 2Trievers (#391)

Nothing that will ever naturally pass through your mind will ever reveal to you, “the truth” about things; only the things themselves can do that -- and they do so -- relentlessly! Life is revealing to you, "the Truth" at every moment, by letting you witness what actually -- happens.

I just knew Santa Claus was real since I saw him once at the shopping mall.

(Wow, that was a long post and I guess if it saves Santa Claus it was worth it).

noone222  posted on  2005-03-17   8:14:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#400. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#366)

IF SUCH A THING AS A god EXISTED. It is a simple matter to prove existence of things that exist. Something as significant as a god would be the easiest of all -- if it existed.

Mr. Buzzcut, do you believe there exists a thing called "Love" ... if so prove its existence. Do you love your parents ? Did your mother love you ? Prove the existence of this "thing" called love then.

noone222  posted on  2005-03-17   8:21:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#401. To: wbales (#398)

Are you in a hotel? Should be in that top drawer ... under the phone.

2Trievers  posted on  2005-03-17   8:21:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#402. To: wbales (#398)

start at page #1 right through to the end. You'll probably find what your looking for if you ignore conventional Christian beliefs and focus on what it really says.

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-17   8:24:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#403. To: Aric2000 (#383)

Bit of a quandry there, but neither can disprove the other, and will NEVER be able to.

Never is an often misunderstood period of time ... we should "never" say "never" ... I have found that whenever I have poorly chosen this word NEVER to express my determination regarding almost any subject ... never is just around the corner.

noone222  posted on  2005-03-17   8:28:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#404. To: Continental Op (#402)

start at page #1 right through to the end. You'll probably find what your looking for if you ignore conventional Christian beliefs and focus on what it really says.

You can try it with the Grimm's Fairy Tales too. Works about the same. Morality plays with a supernatural twist.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-03-17   8:36:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#405. To: Samuel Gray (#404)

You can try it with the Grimm's Fairy Tales too. Works about the same. Morality plays with a supernatural twist.

The Founding Fathers didn't agree with you...

Continental Op  posted on  2005-03-17   9:36:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#406. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#376)

Don, lets just call a truce - or this thread will never die.

This thread and the longevity of Christ's Gospels are very similar. The harder the Sanhedrin tried to extinguish Jesus ... the more Jesus tended towards expansion !

Long live the debate.

noone222  posted on  2005-03-17   9:51:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#407. To: noone222 (#390)

Sorry, wrong on ALL counts, this is NOT a skull and bones mystical satanic exercise.

Jesus was a nazarene, and as a nazarene and a mystic, it was one of the exercises that a teacher went through with a student when the student had graduated.

You don't know your history very well, but then again, that's not unexpected.

Aric2000  posted on  2005-03-17   11:20:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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