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Title: The Cross and the Plumbline (Celtic mystery history, Navigation, Expolration)
Source: see site
URL Source: http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_5.htm
Published: Feb 4, 2006
Author: Crichton Miller
Post Date: 2006-02-04 22:31:56 by tom007
Keywords: Expolration), Navigation,, Plumbline
Views: 94
Comments: 14

The Cross and the Plumbline By Crichton Miller

I am a Scottish born researcher and Company Director with an interest in prehistory. I have applied for a patent on a derivative of the Celtic cross. This application was published on the 14th of June 2000 under UK patent application GB 2 344 654 A. Despite intensive research by The Patent Office prior to publication, no instrument with its complete attributes has been discovered and its application was not found to be obvious. !cmiller.jpgThe Celtic cross, which is an ancient and sacred symbol, with which most people are familiar, appears to be a representation of an ancient instrument that was used by our ancestors as far back as Neolithic times. I believe that it was what the Ancient Egyptians and Phoenicians used to survey their buildings and navigate the oceans of the world. Despite the discovery of cocaine in some of the Egyptian Mummies, it has been argued, in august and academic circles, that it was impossible for them or the Phoenicians to have crossed the Atlantic in prehistory, because of their inability to navigate. Thor Heyderhal scotched the concept that their boats were incapable with his Ra expedition. I am about to collapse the final argument, by proving that they could navigate and had the instrument to do it.

The discovery came about in the winter of 1997 when I was trying to figure out what the Ancient Egyptians would have used to survey the great pyramid complex at Giza. All constructions, even ancient ones, require surveying before commencement of work. The incredible pyramid of Cheops and the Giza complex, which seems to embody the mathematical value of PI, would have to be accurately surveyed, as would all similar constructions, including stone circles such as Stonehenge, Avebury and Callanish in Scotland. Callanish is more than 5000 years old and built in the form of a Celtic cross - proof that this knowledge predates the Egyptian Pyramids.

Through intensive and exhaustive experimentation, a belief in the intelligence of our ancestors and a refusal to believe in little green men as the designers, I discovered that the only appropriate instrument that could have been used by the architect, in the place of a theodolite, was a derivative of the cross, with the addition of a plumbline.

This incredibly simple, yet complex instrument, has the potential to measure angles and inclinations to an accuracy of 1 minute of arc or 1/60th of a degree, depending on the size of the instrument used. This is an extraordinary accuracy for what appears to be only two pieces of wood, a scale and a plumbline. One of the most interesting but obscure abilities of the Cross is its capability to take sidereal measurements.

With my experience of navigation as a qualified Yachtmaster, I turned my experimentation to discover if the ancient mariners could find latitude and longitude with the cross. The experiments conducted, confirmed that the ancients could find their position anywhere on the Earth within 3 nautical miles with a hand held device. This discovery may help to prove that it was possible for sailors such as the Phoenicians to have made regular trading contact with the Americas in pre Columbian times. It also may explain the mysterious navigation skills of the Polynesians. This discovery also helps support pioneers of the theory of ancient intercontinental travel such as Thor Heyderhal with his Kon Tiki and Ra expeditions.

I then went on to discover that this instrument was probably the basis of geometry, mathematics, ancient astronomy, map making and time keeping. That this instrument was used in combination with a detailed knowledge of astronomy and monthly star positions, ecliptic and zodiac observations so as to locate the position of any star at any time over a location on the earth's surface. Hence the saying "as in heaven so on earth".

Furthermore, those observers were placed at strategic observatories throughout the known world to keep local time and traditions and to aid mariners and other travelers. Those travelers were able to find their longitude over short distances with the use of sand (hour) glasses in relation to local time between observatories (stone or wood henges in the north and pyramids in the lower latitudes) and world time kept at the old 0 degree meridian at Giza. I also believe that the henges were used to keep time and in fact were large astrolabes where stone balls were moved around the henge on a daily basis to represent the positions of the planets in relation to the sun and zodiac throughout the year.

Ley (lay) lines, an ancient and modern navigation term, were used to lay the position line, or course, of one place in relation to another. This term is misconstrued to have magical or magnetic properties by modern cultists. It is in fact related to astro navigation and can be found in modern navigation manuals. The lay line from the Cape Verde Islands to the Caribbean Antilles, avoiding the Sargasso Sea is exactly 17 degrees North. To find this line an instrument that measures the declination of a star or the sun at azimuth would have to be used. I believe that this instrument was the Cross with a plumbline.

I also believe that the quadrant, used in the 13th century was an inferior instrument in that it was incapable of sidereal measurements. I further believe that the Cross and the methods of its use, is one of the greatest treasures found by the famous Knights Templar, in their excavation of Solomon's Temple, during the Crusades. That this discovery led to a new style of architecture and the building of the Great Cathedrals in Europe, starting with Chartres in France.

It may also have led to the greatest untold confidence trick in the last millennium played on Spain by Christopher Columbus and eventually leading to the destruction of the Amerindian civilizations. There is evidence that the Templars, to whom Columbus was associated, had been voyaging to the Americas for two hundred years before the official discovery. Using the cross as a navigation instrument. The Templar Archivist has already argued at Roslyn Chapel in Scotland, that William St Claire had voyaged to America before Columbus. The fact that the instrument actually works and can be demonstrated to fulfil a universal role in many functions, is vindication of my theories. What is truly amazing, is that no one has discovered this lost knowledge in modern times. The message in stone, wood, metals and art has been around for thousands of years, in full view of the public.

!cm_pat.jpg

Apart from the publication of the patent, I have been asked to publish and had accepted an academic 20,000-word paper, with 38 technical illustrations in the November 2000 issue of Fortean Studies. This article will be of great interest to those studying Egyptian constructions, but unfortunately can not be revealed until after publication comes out. In this paper I have outlined the methods used to tell the time and navigate with the combination of the cross, pyramids, stone circles and henges.

I have also been asked to appear at the next Fortean Unconvention in London to speak about my discoveries. I have accepted that my name be put forward. I have appeared for 15 minutes in May 1999 on Teidi Television, following a lecture he gave to a conference on Mayan Culture in Tenerife. After gifting a working model of the Cross to Don Ajlehandro, Head Elder of forty-five Elders and spiritual leader of 6,000,000 Maya people. The only person allowed by the authorities to conduct ancient ceremonies on the Yucatan Pyramids. The last ceremony held at that time had in attendance every Amerindian Tribal Chief from Tierra del Feugo to Alaska.

Don Ajlehandro said that it was his people's lost "Staff of Power" used to design pyramids and lost when the Conquistadors dispossessed them 500 years ago. He promised to show it to his Elders and place it for instruction of the young in the Maya Mystery Schools. A small article has been purchased by Practical Boatowner magazine and is due for publication showing how the instrument can be easily used as an emergency navigation backup in case of electronic navigation system failures.

Apart from being a help to Archaeologists, in piecing together the unexplained mysteries and purposes of the pyramids of Egypt, Mexico, Peru, Stonehenge and other ancient constructions, I hope that my discovery will be an enlightenment to all seekers after the truth. That this discovery will enlighten all people about our past and inspire other researchers, helping to further our knowledge and understand the obscure culture of the ancients. I hope that I can find further sponsorship and assistance in providing the instrument to developing countries for a cheap and efficient method of surveying projects such as construction, road building and irrigation.

I also hope, that this instrument may be used in the practical education of the young, so that they may gain a basic and interesting foundation of this ancient knowledge. That they may learn how our ancestors survived and learnt about astronomy, navigation, construction, mathematics, geometry and time keeping. How they went on to apply this knowledge, which is lost in the mists of time, to construct the ancient wonders of the world and achieve the seemingly impossible.

I am presently compiling my research, with the aim of completing my first book by the spring of 2001.

Crichton E. M. Miller

I, Crichton Edward McGregor Miller hereby assert and give notice of my right under section 77 of the Copyright Designs and Patent Act 1988 to be identified as the Author of the foregoing Article.

Copyright © CRICHTON E M MILLER All rights reserved. Reprinted with permission (5 images)

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#1. To: All, time to build a boat, robin, neil Mciver, diana (#0)

Mummies in Egypt, c. 1000 bc. DID have matabolids of the coca plant in them. Seems the drug trade is a pretty old one. And linear A cuniform inscribed pottery found in Bolivia....

tom007  posted on  2006-02-04   22:36:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: tom007 (#1)

celtic knots are cool too

Mr Rumsfeld said the emergence of populist leaders through elections in Latin American was "worrisome".

robin  posted on  2006-02-04   22:42:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: tom007 (#0)

completing my first book by the spring of 2001.

Too bad St. Patrick didn't have a hold on Kabbalah...March 20th...the start date of Iraq war, up coming date of Iran's Oil Bourse, Israel's deadline to stop the Bourse...John Bolton has his plate full. Operation First Fruits...nice "springtime" theme...

“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"

Eoghan  posted on  2006-02-04   22:45:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: robin (#2)

“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"

Eoghan  posted on  2006-02-04   22:47:58 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Eoghan (#4)

The Norse and Celtic versions of the knot are used for the same purposes of protection but are related to the fourfold solar cross.


Traditional Norse, built on a swastika/solar cross motif

A simple and an intricate Celtic version

Mr Rumsfeld said the emergence of populist leaders through elections in Latin American was "worrisome".

robin  posted on  2006-02-04   22:50:06 ET  (3 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: robin (#5)

Similar to the one we use...except the corners are squared off...

“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"

Eoghan  posted on  2006-02-04   22:57:27 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Eoghan (#6)

Mr Rumsfeld said the emergence of populist leaders through elections in Latin American was "worrisome".

robin  posted on  2006-02-04   23:03:20 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: tom007 (#0)

Here's another piece of the puzzle - check out THIS web page. The site is http://www.theforgottentechnology.com and it is a web site put together by a guy who has figured out how to move gigantic blocks of stone with minimal manpower. How minimal? Try ten ton blocks being muscled around by one guy with no pulleys or levers or hydraulics or anything modern whatsoever. Check it out.

Gold and silver are real money, paper is but a promise.

Elliott Jackalope  posted on  2006-02-04   23:07:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: tom007, timetobuildaboat (#1)

No spaces between.

PING!

Pretty good article, but I think that the Egyptian pyramids are far older than the civilization that existed during the time of the Pharoahs.

For example, the sphinx is in the shape of a lion and from the direction it faces, and considering that the constellation Leo would have been rising at the exact position the sphinx faces 8,000 or 10,000 years ago, IIRC. The face of the sphinx was obviously vandalized by the later Egyptians of the time of the Pharoahs.

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-04   23:10:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: robin (#7)

Yes...thank you.

“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"

Eoghan  posted on  2006-02-04   23:15:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Eoghan (#10)

I see the similarity, interesting that some are based on the swastika and meant for protection, like a talisman.

Mr Rumsfeld said the emergence of populist leaders through elections in Latin American was "worrisome".

robin  posted on  2006-02-04   23:17:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: robin (#11)

I guess so...bloodhound noses of ADL/JDL....so be it...the IRA didn't fare so well. Too much whiskey at the pub doesn't do well for discreetness...

“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"

Eoghan  posted on  2006-02-04   23:23:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: robin, Eoghan, tom007, BTP Holdings, Elliott Jackalope, (#5)

Traditional Norse, built on a swastika/solar cross motif

A simple and an intricate Celtic version

Interesting set of pics and words. I'm going to add this to my collection of articles on the tribe of Dan [for starters, see The Lost Tribe of Dan at http://watch.pair.com/dan.html - ....and why did Dan remain in ships?].

There is an interesting page on symbols here:

SYMBOLS and their Meaning

http://www.crossroad.to/Books /symbols1.html

I have off an on been working on THIS Bible prophecy:

Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever.

http://www.bluelett erbible.org/kjv/Eze/Eze037.html#25

http://www.blueletter bible.org/tsk_b/Eze/37/25.html

Now, there is no question in MY mind that He was talking about America.

What land did God give to Jacob/ISRAEL? Everywhere their feet should tread:

Deu 11:24 Every place whereon the soles of your feet shall tread shall be yours: from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the uttermost sea shall your coast be.

http://www.bluelett erbible.org/kjv/Deu/Deu011.html#24

Jos 1:3 Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses.

Jos 1:4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast.

Jos 14:9 And Moses sware on that day, saying, Surely the land whereon thy feet have trodden shall be thine inheritance, and thy children's for ever, because thou hast wholly followed the LORD my God.

http://www.blueletter bible.org/tsk_b/Deu/11/24.html

Who is Israel? See Galatians 3:16-29. Christians inherit the promises. Christians are joint-heirs to the whole world with Christ.

[a website I ran across this morning: Who is the "Church?" Who is "Israel?" http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.co m/israel.htm ]

Now the passage I am trying to study, to see if perhaps it is one of the "hidden pictures" in the Bible is Gen. 35:21. Note Jacob/Israel has just lost the love of his life. Maybe he went to see the rest of his inheritance to console himself?

Gen 35:19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which [is] Bethlehem.

Gen 35:20 And Jacob set a pillar upon her grave: that [is] the pillar of Rachel's grave unto this day.

Gen 35:21 And Israel journeyed, and spread his tent beyond the tower of Edar.

Gen 35:22 And it came to pass, when Israel dwelt in that land, that Reuben went and lay with Bilhah his father's concubine: and Israel heard [it]. Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: ..........

[note: Bilhah was Dan's mother]

http://www.bluelett erbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen035.html#21

I haven't put it all in words, yet, but I believe the "tower of Edar" is connected to the "tower of the flock" of Micah 4, which I believe is also talking about America:

tower

Mic 4:8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

See here:

http://www.blueletterbi ble.org/tsk_b/Mic/4/8.html

Now for another MAJOR piece of the puzzle, you will have to see the very interesting article at LP. I'm not sure if it is okay to post a link, but here is the title:

Who really discovered America? [Evidence that the Jews did] [note: I would change the title to "....Evidence that the ISRAELITES did."]

If you are interested in this sort of thing, I'd advise you to make a copy of that article, and here's why. Note the following from comment 1:

"....There are caves in the Grand Canyon area that have ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics carved on the walls, describing a voyage across what we now know as the Atlantic: apparently some Egyptians crossed the ocean then entered the Gulf of Mexico and took the river system into modern-day southwestern U.S....."

I read all about this a few years ago, and the Smithsonian was involved in some way; I don't remember how, but this was treated with some secrecy, as if they didn't want us to know this. Not too long after I read the story, it seemed to disappear off the web.

More fuel for the fire, although this is probably more than anybody wanted to know:

Your Inheritance ... that afterwards he conquered Macedonia, and that Alexander [the Great ... Argive Danai [a region of ancient Greece] was no ... the Danai and the tribe of Dan this is ... http://www.a ncientmanuscripts.com/books/your_inheritance.htm - 8k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages

It's pretty short; I'm going to post it:

Your Inheritance Sacred Truth Ministries 258 pages This is a well researched and fully documented book that deals with the ancient history and origins of the Nordic peoples and the relation of this history to Bible history . . . and the relevance of all of this to modern and current history. This book includes pictures of the coat of arms of all European Nations and their relevance to Israel is explained. It contains pictures of the symbols that are declared in Scripture to be symbols of God's true Israel people . . . all to be found in the Coat of Arms of the European and European-descended people. These symbols are by no means new; many of these symbols were in use in the 1200's and earlier by the ancient Germanic people, the Scythians, and their ancestors the Israelites. Books have been written on this under-reported historical and Biblical view for the past 200 years, but this is not just another re-hash of the "same old story". History, amazing, yet faintly reported archaeological discoveries, philology, philosophy, theology, anthropology & civilization and more, are all deftly woven into this fully-documented, scholarly, yet fascinating and easy-to-read book that can completely change your thinking in every area of your life. An idea of the many references to scholarly works throughout the book is this sample from E. P. Ingersol's Lost Israel found, In The Anglo-Saxon Race(1886) in which he states: From historic evidences that have come to light recently, it seems that Dan [one of the 12 Tribes of Israel] had been long familiar with the then Western World; that he had been accustomed to the performance of voyages with the Phoenicians all over the Mediterranean Sea, and beyond outside the Straits of Hercules; and that alone, unaccompanied by any of his neighbors, he had sailed to Egypt and thence into Greece, taking with him a colony of his own people; and that these Danai are said to have been among the first settlers of Greece. It is further stated that Dan was engaged in the sacking of Troy; that afterwards he conquered Macedonia, and that Alexander [the Great] seems to have descended from this very tribe of Israel. It is further stated that Dan settled, after the sacking of Troy, in that very region, where he built twelve cities. (p.14) Also dealing with Dan was Colonel J. C. Gawler in his scholarly work, Dan: The Pioneer of Israel. In it, Colonel Gawler quotes Latham from Ethnology of Europe: I think that the eponymus of the Argive Danai [a region of ancient Greece] was no other than that of the Israelite tribe of Dan, only we are so used to confine ourselves to the soil of Palestine in our consideration of the Israelites, that we treat them as if they were adscripti gleboe [bound to the land], and ignore the share they may have taken in the ordinary history of the world. The sea ports between Tyre and Ascalon, or Dan, Ephraim, and Ashur, must have followed the history of sea ports in general, and not have stood on the coast for nothing. What a light would be thrown on the name of Peloponnesus and the history of the Pelopid family, if a bona fide nation of Pelopes, with unequivocal affinities and contemporay annals, had existed on the coast of Asia! Who would have hesitated to connect the two? Yet with the Danai and the tribe of Dan this is the case, and no one connects them! (p. 11,12) This is quite a statement! And the writer believes the only explanation would seem to be either intense ignorance or, dare one think it, a conspiracy to hide the truth. He makes no effort to hide his disgust for, and suspicions of, the establishment historians and professional clergy. He has this to say about it: Is it not rather odd that the huge mass of Israel people (about 13 million people) disappeared from history around the same time another huge body of people appeared ( in roughly the exact same place) and secular minds say they have no clue as to the destiny of the one or the origins of the other--even when the very natures and cultures of these peoples are identical; even when historical records prove they are the self-same people? Can it be they are just plain ignorant, or are they actually hiding something? . . . There exists specific proof written and recorded as early as the 1300's A.D., and all the way to the present date, as well as astounding evidence dating back to even the 600's B.C. which can be pieced together by a child. This is a significant piece of the puzzle that has been kept well hidden from most everyone. This is part of the conspiracy to keep your heritage and inheritance - your very identity - well hidden from you. To introduce the reader to the important purpose behind the writing of this book the author begins the book with the following quotes: "Everyone has struggled with the question, Who am I? It has been said that, if we could come up with the answer, 'everything else would fall into place.' " (Why Civilizations Self-Destruct (1977), Dr. Elmer Pendell (Cornell University); p. 1) "To Destroy a people, you must first sever their roots." Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn This is a most fascinating book...a wonderful reference tool. Over 200 pictures and over 500 footnotes. Also contains an unprecedented list of more than 150 prominent individuals who knew/know the true identity of Israel.

[Note: They are not all Israel that are of Israel.....In Isaac shall thy seed be called....Gal. 3: .....thy seed is Christ.....if you are Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs to the promise. Therefore, a lot of us are probably descended from Israel of the flesh; HOWEVER, salvation is STILL by grace, and not race. Israel is all nations, multitudes and tongues [Rev. 5:9- 10. Just wanted to be clear on that.]

All the HIDDEN things of DARKNESS shall be revealed......

Night Killer - Seasons of the Moon - The Tribe of Dan

Teves 5764

by Rabbi Yaakov Asher Sinclair

http://ohr.edu/yhiy/article.php/1401

Gosh, here is another one I had not seen before:

The Lost Jews – The Ten Tribes

For the week ending 24 July 2004 / 6 Av 5764

by Rabbi Yirmiyahu Ullman

http://ohr.edu/yhiy/article.php/1788

Jer 23:7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

Jer 23:8 But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jer/Jer023.html#8

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Jer/23/8.html

Maybe it's time for the rebels of the black sheep of the family, to come back into the fold. I hope. They are not ALL rebels; I am proof of that.

Gen 49:18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen049.html#18

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2006-02-10   13:18:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#13)

Also dealing with Dan was Colonel J. C. Gawler in his scholarly work, Dan: The Pioneer of Israel. In it, Colonel Gawler quotes Latham from Ethnology of Europe: I think that the eponymus of the Argive Danai [a region of ancient Greece] was no other than that of the Israelite tribe of Dan, only we are so used to confine ourselves to the soil of Palestine in our consideration of the Israelites, that we treat them as if they were adscripti gleboe [bound to the land], and ignore the share they may have taken in the ordinary history of the world. The sea ports between Tyre and Ascalon, or Dan, Ephraim, and Ashur, must have followed the history of sea ports in general, and not have stood on the coast for nothing. What a light would be thrown on the name of Peloponnesus and the history of the Pelopid family, if a bona fide nation of Pelopes, with unequivocal affinities and contemporay annals, had existed on the coast of Asia! Who would have hesitated to connect the two? Yet with the Danai and the tribe of Dan this is the case, and no one connects them! (p. 11,12) This is quite a statement! And the writer believes the only explanation would seem to be either intense ignorance or, dare one think it, a conspiracy to hide the truth. He makes no effort to hide his disgust for, and suspicions of, the establishment historians and professional clergy. He has this to say about it: Is it not rather odd that the huge mass of Israel people (about 13 million people) disappeared from history around the same time another huge body of people appeared ( in roughly the exact same place) and secular minds say they have no clue as to the destiny of the one or the origins of the other--even when the very natures and cultures of these peoples are identical; even when historical records prove they are the self-same people? Can it be they are just plain ignorant, or are they actually hiding something? . . . There exists specific proof written and recorded as early as the 1300's A.D., and all the way to the present date, as well as astounding evidence dating back to even the 600's B.C. which can be pieced together by a child. This is a significant piece of the puzzle that has been kept well hidden from most everyone. This is part of the conspiracy to keep your heritage and inheritance - your very identity - well hidden from you.

Good post, excellent!

It's a good thing you didn't post this at El Pee. The bots would be swarming and calling every name under the sun. I know, been there, done that. ;0)

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-10   15:39:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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