Looks like some Superman cop runs from behind the dark vehicle to stop the pursued vehicle in the snow [with his body] as it veers off the highway. He gets hit.
Then Rambo comes out of the woods and kills/murders the driver...while in a short-sleeved shirt.
From a better video, the Suburban swerved into the snow to miss the idiot cop, as reported on infowars earlier this evening. I don't know about the guys hands being raised or reaching for a weapon.
My take is that the cops were out to shoot someone, anyone that they could.
The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable. ~ H. L. Mencken
looks like he was trying to go around the roadblock, and then the dumb cop jumps in front of his vehicle.
his arms are at his sides, and then he repeatedly puts them down and it appears he is reaching into his jacket,. easy way to die if youre ever dealing with amped up cops.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you".Sirach 4:28
looks like he was trying to go around the roadblock, and then the dumb cop jumps in front of his vehicle.
That's what I see too.
There is a cop in the road and Rambo in the woods who clearly shoots him dead. Did cop in the road [on his feet] with the weapon hit him first or fire at him? Hard to tell.
The pursued driver made his own decisions and they ended up being fatal for him.
looks like he was trying to go around the roadblock, and then the dumb cop jumps in front of his vehicle.
his arms are at his sides, and then he repeatedly puts them down and it appears he is reaching into his jacket,. easy way to die if youre ever dealing with amped up cops.
Yes, the cop that jumped in front of the SUV was stupid for doing that. Any injuries he may have gotten from that are on the cop alone.
The vid isn't super clear but it does appear he was putting his hands into his jacket. If the guy from the woods shot him, it seems it was a bit risky of him as the other cops were not much out of the line of fire.
The edited version is 8 minutes 3 seconds. The tape ran for 36:49 according to the FBI time stamp. I did not see Finicum go for a weapon. As I understand it, he was shot several times after falling down onto the snow. No word in the article saying how many times he was shot.
that's interesting if it was 36:49 and yet even the 'unedited' version here is 25 minutes, no?
at any rate, whether he had a weapon on him or not, I believe by all accounts that LaVoy Finicum was a very good and decent, God-fearing man with the best of intentions. He was passionate in his beliefs.
However, whether you have a donut, a pocket full of daiseys or an AK47 under your jacket, if you reach in to your jacket during a confrontation with amped up Israeli-trained cops guess what? you're dead as dirt within seconds.
Only a suicidal maniac or a looney tunes would a act like that in such a situation, sorry. That's my opinion and i'm sticking to it, and guess what? Ive had MANY contentious interactions with evil pig cops, and I'm still alive. and it is going to stay that way.
I get tired of these libertarian types always bashing the cops even when they clearly don't deserve it. their judgment and completely irrational bias is screwed in the head.
In retrospect all the other occupiers are actually lucky that the state police didn't open fire on the vehicle as it approached speeding towards the roadblock.
They all could have been killed. I'm not saying that would be justified, but it could have VERY easily occurred.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you".Sirach 4:28
The Fibees record is not too reassuring. Recall that Chechen who was shot in the back while handcuffed and the explanation was that he lunged at the agent.
I believe by all accounts that LaVoy Finicum was a very good and decent, God-fearing man with the best of intentions. He was passionate in his beliefs.
True, by all accounts that I've seen, heard, or read.
The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable. ~ H. L. Mencken
I believe by all accounts that LaVoy Finicum was a very good and decent, God-fearing man with the best of intentions. He was passionate in his beliefs.
True, by all accounts that I've seen, heard, or read.
I will third that.
While I have criticisms of the occupation that are strategically & logistically based and have voiced the same here, when people nobly stand up for what they believe in and suffer for it, they still deserve full & complete respect. Especially from anyone who has, instead of lifting a finger for the cause, continues to be subjugated.
It's possible Finicum preferred to be shot & killed instead of arrested. Didn't he voice as much? If so, then his actions of getting out of the car and reaching in his jacket -- if that's what he did -- might have been intentional with the desired result achieved.
It's possible Finicum preferred to be shot & killed instead of arrested. Didn't he voice as much? If so, then his actions of getting out of the car and reaching in his jacket -- if that's what he did -- might have been intentional with the desired result achieved.
That's out there.
The fbi helicopter tape is so crappy that it's difficult to tell what happened; but it's also difficult for me to believe that a good man, with so much to live for, would consciously martyr himself for nothing.
Maybe I don't understand his mindset...RIP
The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable. ~ H. L. Mencken
If so, then his actions of getting out of the car and reaching in his jacket -- if that's what he did -- might have been intentional with the desired result achieved.
It did appear that he was reaching into his jacket, and if he was, he had to know that that was likely to answered with quick and extreme violence. When you are armed (or believed to be so), a gov helicopter is overhead, and a dozen police cars are chasing and blocking you thus making escape impossible, the only two choices are to surrender or risk being killed. His surrender wasn't quite peaceful and compliant enough for gov, so they killed him. That said, they might killed him anyway, even if he hadn't reached into his jacket.
When you are armed (or believed to be so), a gov helicopter is overhead, and a dozen police cars are chasing and blocking you thus making escape impossible, the only two choices are to surrender or risk being killed.
Exactly! Only a completely irrational maniac does this. I think it's unspeakably foolish for people to characterize these actions as somehow noble or heroic. Just bizarre.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you".Sirach 4:28
I did preface it with "It's possible". With that, I'm thinking about what he might be on youtube record as saying about the eventuality. I don't know this guy at all.
Of course it's one thing to say you won't surrender, and another to actually go down in a blaze of glory when the moment of reckoning arrives.
Still, it's clear that unlike everyone else, he got out of the SUV to face the police as soon as it stopped. If he feared for his life and was willing to surrender, would he have done that?
Exactly! Only a completely irrational maniac does this. I think it's unspeakably foolish for people to characterize these actions as somehow noble or heroic.
Standing up for what you believe in, and suffering for same, absolutely is noble. I stand by that statement.
It's possible Finicum preferred to be shot & killed instead of arrested. Didn't he voice as much? If so, then his actions of getting out of the car and reaching in his jacket -- if that's what he did -- might have been intentional with the desired result achieved.
Finicum, who is a father of 11, stated in an interview earlier this month that he refused to end up behind bars:
Im just not going to prison. Look at the stars. Theres no way Im going to sit in a concrete cell where I cant see the stars and roll out my bedroll on the ground. Thats just not going to happen. I want to be able to get up in the morning and throw my saddle on my horse and go check on my cows. Its OK. Ive lived a good life. Gods been gracious to me.
We all thought it would end, but not like this, Finicums daughter, Challice Finicum Finch, told NBC News. My dad did stress that they couldnt pull a gun on [officers] unless they pulled a gun. They were all committed to not firing on federal agents.
My dad was such a good man, through and through, said Arianna Finicum Brown to OregonLive. He would never want to hurt somebody, but he does believe in defending freedom and he knew the risks involved.
This is one of the many comments I've read about LaVoy's supposedly reaching for his gun.
"The treasonous bastards shot him BEFORE he reached into his jacket. He wasn't reaching for a gun (which he wore on his RIGHT side), he was reaching for the excruciatingly painful hole that had just appeared in his left side!"
I agree it's plausible that they shot him with rubber first or gazed and then when he reached for his coat they used that as a pretext to kil. However that bypasses the large point which straitgate made. When you act as an aggressor as la on did, speeding toward an armed blockade, jumping out, etc that for fact is foolish for anyone who values their own life. Succch actions are not lauded by reasonable people.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you".Sirach 4:28
There should be more videos than just the helicopter vid. There should be video and audio on the ground as well. The police knew this was going to happen, and dash cams and so on are all standard.
There should be more videos than just the helicopter vid. There should be video and audio on the ground as well. The police knew this was going to happen, and dash cams and so on are all standard.
Good point. Gov will probably release those supplemental videos about the same time that they release the additional Iraqi POW torture photos that were reportedly something like 100 times worse than anything that the American people have seen yet. (That was years ago and we're still waiting.) Or about the time they unseal the MLK records.
Personally I don't believe in Suicide , it's considered an affront to God. Throwing away the life God gave you. Just as BLM tyranny is evil, an affront to the dignity of the person and theft of their property, Suicide is even more immoral than that. Since suffering or fear of it is not reason to destroy your body, the temple of God.
2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.http://www.vatican.va/archive/c cc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.h tm
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you".Sirach 4:28
It wasn't technically suicide even if the footage is accurate, but would you judge somebody for painlessly ending it all if they're in unbearable pain and there's no cure?
Are we who have never been in such conditions in a position to blame them? I hate to say it but situation ethics is looking less zany the older I get.
I agree that standing on principle is noble, even to death
Under what principled conditions would/could one allow his death to occur unnaturally that would not qualify as suicide? And why wouldn't Finicum's death qualify (assuming he purposely chose to be shot rather than be arrested?)
Yes, id warn anyone who advocates or plans on "mercy killing" that it ' its 100% evil and that theyll go to hell for it. Although i can not judge the fate of those who have done it, its not my place, id certainly never condone or en ourage its practice. That would be a terfible sin on my part. Again:
2280. Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you".Sirach 4:28
For example the martyrs who died rather than deny their faith, or in defense of self or others fighting to protect them, or your property. As a last resort when there is no further recourse. I appreciate your very good questions even if I don't answer them to your satisfaction. These are not my personal ideas, it is from the Catholic catechism, a theology that goes back thousands of years. For example a just war doctrine, if it meets the criterion a soldier can go and risk death out of duty but that is not careless disregard for his sacred life. Or if you jump into a river to save a drowning person, that would be an example of a noble act.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you".Sirach 4:28