The edited version is 8 minutes 3 seconds. The tape ran for 36:49 according to the FBI time stamp. I did not see Finicum go for a weapon. As I understand it, he was shot several times after falling down onto the snow. No word in the article saying how many times he was shot.
that's interesting if it was 36:49 and yet even the 'unedited' version here is 25 minutes, no?
at any rate, whether he had a weapon on him or not, I believe by all accounts that LaVoy Finicum was a very good and decent, God-fearing man with the best of intentions. He was passionate in his beliefs.
However, whether you have a donut, a pocket full of daiseys or an AK47 under your jacket, if you reach in to your jacket during a confrontation with amped up Israeli-trained cops guess what? you're dead as dirt within seconds.
Only a suicidal maniac or a looney tunes would a act like that in such a situation, sorry. That's my opinion and i'm sticking to it, and guess what? Ive had MANY contentious interactions with evil pig cops, and I'm still alive. and it is going to stay that way.
I get tired of these libertarian types always bashing the cops even when they clearly don't deserve it. their judgment and completely irrational bias is screwed in the head.
In retrospect all the other occupiers are actually lucky that the state police didn't open fire on the vehicle as it approached speeding towards the roadblock.
They all could have been killed. I'm not saying that would be justified, but it could have VERY easily occurred.
I believe by all accounts that LaVoy Finicum was a very good and decent, God-fearing man with the best of intentions. He was passionate in his beliefs.
True, by all accounts that I've seen, heard, or read.
I believe by all accounts that LaVoy Finicum was a very good and decent, God-fearing man with the best of intentions. He was passionate in his beliefs.
True, by all accounts that I've seen, heard, or read.
I will third that.
While I have criticisms of the occupation that are strategically & logistically based and have voiced the same here, when people nobly stand up for what they believe in and suffer for it, they still deserve full & complete respect. Especially from anyone who has, instead of lifting a finger for the cause, continues to be subjugated.
It's possible Finicum preferred to be shot & killed instead of arrested. Didn't he voice as much? If so, then his actions of getting out of the car and reaching in his jacket -- if that's what he did -- might have been intentional with the desired result achieved.
If so, then his actions of getting out of the car and reaching in his jacket -- if that's what he did -- might have been intentional with the desired result achieved.
It did appear that he was reaching into his jacket, and if he was, he had to know that that was likely to answered with quick and extreme violence. When you are armed (or believed to be so), a gov helicopter is overhead, and a dozen police cars are chasing and blocking you thus making escape impossible, the only two choices are to surrender or risk being killed. His surrender wasn't quite peaceful and compliant enough for gov, so they killed him. That said, they might killed him anyway, even if he hadn't reached into his jacket.
When you are armed (or believed to be so), a gov helicopter is overhead, and a dozen police cars are chasing and blocking you thus making escape impossible, the only two choices are to surrender or risk being killed.
Exactly! Only a completely irrational maniac does this. I think it's unspeakably foolish for people to characterize these actions as somehow noble or heroic. Just bizarre.
Exactly! Only a completely irrational maniac does this. I think it's unspeakably foolish for people to characterize these actions as somehow noble or heroic.
Standing up for what you believe in, and suffering for same, absolutely is noble. I stand by that statement.
Personally I don't believe in Suicide , it's considered an affront to God. Throwing away the life God gave you. Just as BLM tyranny is evil, an affront to the dignity of the person and theft of their property, Suicide is even more immoral than that. Since suffering or fear of it is not reason to destroy your body, the temple of God.
2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.http://www.vatican.va/archive/c cc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.h tm
I agree that standing on principle is noble, even to death
Under what principled conditions would/could one allow his death to occur unnaturally that would not qualify as suicide? And why wouldn't Finicum's death qualify (assuming he purposely chose to be shot rather than be arrested?)
For example the martyrs who died rather than deny their faith, or in defense of self or others fighting to protect them, or your property. As a last resort when there is no further recourse. I appreciate your very good questions even if I don't answer them to your satisfaction. These are not my personal ideas, it is from the Catholic catechism, a theology that goes back thousands of years. For example a just war doctrine, if it meets the criterion a soldier can go and risk death out of duty but that is not careless disregard for his sacred life. Or if you jump into a river to save a drowning person, that would be an example of a noble act.
I subscribe to a different belief system which holds to a different standard. Under it, mercy killing, i.e. a terminally ill end of life situation, is not a spiritual crime, though suicide as a form of running away from a difficult life situation is not acceptable.
Finicum's act, however, if indeed it was purposed to cause his own death which we don't know for a fact was the case, would have room for virtue that rises above suicide. One aspect of that choice, again if that is what it was, is that people like us are discussing it in that context. A example of "give me liberty or give me death" being demonstrated fully. His death would not have been in vain if it inspires others to appreciate freedom as a higher virtue.