See other Dead Constitution Articles
Title: FBI releases video of shooting death of Oregon protester
Source:
.
URL Source: https://www.rt.com/usa/330526-fbi-video-oregon-protester-shooting/
Published: Jan 28, 2016
Author: .
Post Date: 2016-01-28 22:23:07 by Artisan
Keywords: None
Views: 682
Comments: 63
go to minute 6 for the bottom line. this is F'd up. , murder by an amped up cop. LaVoy Finicum was not charging anybody. Here is the 25 minute version
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-22) not displayed.
.
.
.
#23. To: Lod (#19)
I did preface it with "It's possible". With that, I'm thinking about what he might be on youtube record as saying about the eventuality. I don't know this guy at all. Of course it's one thing to say you won't surrender, and another to actually go down in a blaze of glory when the moment of reckoning arrives. Still, it's clear that unlike everyone else, he got out of the SUV to face the police as soon as it stopped. If he feared for his life and was willing to surrender, would he have done that?
Standing up for what you believe in, and suffering for same, absolutely is noble. I stand by that statement.
This article supports that view: theantimedia.org/eyewitne...okesman-killed-by-police-while- surrendering/ Finicum, who is a father of 11, stated in an interview earlier this month that he refused to end up behind bars: “I’m just not going to prison. Look at the stars. There’s no way I’m going to sit in a concrete cell where I can’t see the stars and roll out my bedroll on the ground. That’s just not going to happen. I want to be able to get up in the morning and throw my saddle on my horse and go check on my cows. It’s OK. I’ve lived a good life. God’s been gracious to me.” “We all thought it would end, but not like this,” Finicum’s daughter, Challice Finicum Finch, told NBC News. “My dad did stress that they couldn’t pull a gun on [officers] unless they pulled a gun. They were all committed to not firing on federal agents.” “My dad was such a good man, through and through,” said Arianna Finicum Brown to OregonLive. “He would never want to hurt somebody, but he does believe in defending freedom and he knew the risks involved.”
This is one of the many comments I've read about LaVoy's supposedly reaching for his gun. "The treasonous bastards shot him BEFORE he reached into his jacket. He wasn't reaching for a gun (which he wore on his RIGHT side), he was reaching for the excruciatingly painful hole that had just appeared in his left side!"
He seemed to be staggering in the snow, i.e., trying to get his balance.
I can easily believe that.
I agree that standing on principle is noble, even to death as my tagline says. But suicide by cop isn't noble, it is sinful and crazy.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
I agree it's plausible that they shot him with rubber first or gazed and then when he reached for his coat they used that as a pretext to kil. However that bypasses the large point which straitgate made. When you act as an aggressor as la on did, speeding toward an armed blockade, jumping out, etc that for fact is foolish for anyone who values their own life. Succch actions are not lauded by reasonable people.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
There should be more videos than just the helicopter vid. There should be video and audio on the ground as well. The police knew this was going to happen, and dash cams and so on are all standard.
I am not convinced it was suicide.
If he chose to die rather than go to prison, how is it anything BUT principled?
Good point. Gov will probably release those supplemental videos about the same time that they release the additional Iraqi POW torture photos that were reportedly something like 100 times worse than anything that the American people have seen yet. (That was years ago and we're still waiting.) Or about the time they unseal the MLK records.
Silly stuff? lozzafun1.wordpress.com/2...-oregon-huge-news-crisis- actors-on-site-jan20/ allnewspipelin e.com/Milit...lse_Flag_Grand_Climax.php Mebbe not totally useless -- introduces this mag ------------------------------------------- UNRELATED
Good Lord, NN. I hope you have a good anti-virus.
Personally I don't believe in Suicide , it's considered an affront to God. Throwing away the life God gave you. Just as BLM tyranny is evil, an affront to the dignity of the person and theft of their property, Suicide is even more immoral than that. Since suffering or fear of it is not reason to destroy your body, the temple of God. 2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.http://www.vatican.va/archive/c cc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.h tm "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
It wasn't technically suicide even if the footage is accurate, but would you judge somebody for painlessly ending it all if they're in unbearable pain and there's no cure? Are we who have never been in such conditions in a position to blame them? I hate to say it but situation ethics is looking less zany the older I get. ----------------------------------------------- UNRELATED
But you also said this: Under what principled conditions would/could one allow his death to occur unnaturally that would not qualify as suicide? And why wouldn't Finicum's death qualify (assuming he purposely chose to be shot rather than be arrested?)
Yes, id warn anyone who advocates or plans on "mercy killing" that it ' its 100% evil and that theyll go to hell for it. Although i can not judge the fate of those who have done it, its not my place, id certainly never condone or en ourage its practice. That would be a terfible sin on my part. Again: 2280. Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
For example the martyrs who died rather than deny their faith, or in defense of self or others fighting to protect them, or your property. As a last resort when there is no further recourse. I appreciate your very good questions even if I don't answer them to your satisfaction. These are not my personal ideas, it is from the Catholic catechism, a theology that goes back thousands of years. For example a just war doctrine, if it meets the criterion a soldier can go and risk death out of duty but that is not careless disregard for his sacred life. Or if you jump into a river to save a drowning person, that would be an example of a noble act.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
You just did -- or you're agreeing with me, one or the other :-) --------------------------------- UNRELATED
I appreciate your answers as well. Thank you. I subscribe to a different belief system which holds to a different standard. Under it, mercy killing, i.e. a terminally ill end of life situation, is not a spiritual crime, though suicide as a form of running away from a difficult life situation is not acceptable. Finicum's act, however, if indeed it was purposed to cause his own death which we don't know for a fact was the case, would have room for virtue that rises above suicide. One aspect of that choice, again if that is what it was, is that people like us are discussing it in that context. A example of "give me liberty or give me death" being demonstrated fully. His death would not have been in vain if it inspires others to appreciate freedom as a higher virtue.
Right! You also bring to mind the principle of coup de grâce* en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_de _gr%C3%A2ce . *or "coup de gras" as its laffably misrendered -------------------------------- UNRELATED
I agree that we can't say for sure that finicum did suicide by cop or chose to die by his purposeful actions. And even if he did, it's not my place to judge his intent or motivations. I agree with you that in his mind he probably didn't think he was doing wrong. As an interesting sidenote, the traditional Catholic teaching was obviously opposed to the French revolution, which put freemasonic concepts of "liberty" above God's laws, as Jefferson urged to "break the chains of monkish superstitions ". This was also covered in the papal encyclical on "americanism". As one great priest put it recently, the reason Americans are losing their liberties is not surprising since you can't get good fruit from a rotten tree. I don't revere the CONstitution as many do. There are higher standards above and beyond it. My main point is that is never suggest to a friend or loved one or stranger that they confront armed amped up Israeli trained cops in a wild manner. I have a question for you also. What's the big distinction between suicide as running away from problem as you said was condemned in your belief system vs Mercy killing? "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
There is a big distinction between saying that something is a grave sin (adultery, murder, theft etc) and proclaiming that any specific person went to he'll when they died. I'd never have the gall and arrogance to dare say such a thing about anyone since it's not my place. It's up to God to judge. However I can say that violating the ten commandments is a mortal sin that will send one to hell if they don't repent before death.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Who's that "great priest", and where can we catch up with his work? Does he oppose the ironclad Catholic dogma of open borders for white countries -- one of the main tools of the rottenness you mention? Americanism as I understand it is the anti-interventionist philosophy of the early Revisionists, the Lindberghs et al -- the last generation that had a fighting chance of staving off the amerikan empire as we know it. Fr. Coughlin was friendly with them but he embraced a lot of (what do you know!) stuff that's gliberal boilerplate now. ----------------------- UNRELATED
If the human body had reached a point where it is basically not functional and irreversably so, then the life cycle is sufficiently complete such that ending the life -- and moving on -- is a reasonable course. In the case of a body that is in reasonably good health, where a decision of suicide is made simply because of a particular event, financial hardship, or other circumstance where one just doesn't want to face a particular hardship is regarded as wasting that life. The key difference is the condition of the physical body, and prospects for more years of potentially productive life. The model I subscribe to includes reincarnation. Our purpose in life is to grow spiritually. Throwing away years that could be spend on further growth is a waste. Ending a life when one is, for example, in a permanently vegetative state does not deprive that one of productive years.
I'll post the homily later, it's from my fave site audiosancto.org. that particular sermon was on freemasonry. The priests don't list their name, the explanation is on the site. Basically it's because their homilies are not to focus attention on them personally or for fame, but for the doctrine. Although I have a wild story of how after years of listening to sermons from that site, my wife and I actually, by complete chance while having no clue even what state the priests originated from, actually ended up at that church for Mass one Sunday in 2012. As far as open borders, I've posted before, the actual Catholic catechism affirms the right and duty of a nation to secure it's borders, not the opposite. Although As I acknowledged to you before, their rhetoric today never mentions that.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Thanks for the explanation. Although id argue that the mere fact that someone isnt productive does not diminish the value of theif life. Is there value in suffering, in your belief system/religion,? We can offer up suffering in reparation of sin and for other reasons. That is quite foreign to many people today. Suffering can be a great source of sanctification. Many saints throughout the centuries have written on this, even going so far as to say that if we don't have a cross, we should pray for one. I know, wild stuff to most people. Bishop Sheen preached a lot on these concepts. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
The value of spiritual life is never diminished. But there is physical life and there is the life of the soul which is immortal. Physical life inevitably comes to and end, but only serves the greater purpose of facilitating progression of one's immortal spiritual journey. That context does not exist in the Christian model, which basically equates physical life with soul life. Michael Newton is the contemporary, a doctor who specialized in hypnotherapy involving past life and between life regression. He writes that "sin" in one life, in which one person habitually or seriously hurts others, is indeed "paid for" through similar suffering in a future life. Such souls will volunteer for those roles in advance of birth, knowing the fate involved. The purpose if it, however, is not to suffer simply for the purpose of experiencing physical pain, but rather to become truly enlightened as to the harm they caused, thus furthering their spiritual progression in the process. Perhaps related, there are hard lives and there are easy lives, and yes, one living a hard life, and dealing with the hardship gracefully, will progress much farther than an easy life spent as a wealthy person who has everything handed to him/her on a silver platter (assuming they progress at all). So in this model, there is no need for a "special place in hell" for those who commit atrocious acts upon others. When they die, they will deal with their earthly choices in a fully just manner, one way or another, without losing love of which at all of us are permanent recipients. But back to the point of the discussion, since death is not a door through which we pass only once, physical life is not of particular importance compared to the needs of the soul. Hence, the room for morality in terminating a life that is beyond recovery and beyond any service to the soul.
Now how did I just know we weren't going to learn his name? How do you know he's a great priest if you don't know who he is. ---------------- NN sequitur
Read my reply again, & pay better attention this time. The answer to your questions is there.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
You mean this question -- "Does he oppose the ironclad Catholic dogma of open borders for white countries -- one of the main tools of the rottenness you mention"? Where is it? I've read your replies but don't see it. --------------------- NN Sequitur
Oh, i was replying to where you said you figured I wouldnt give his name & how do I know he's a great priest if I don't know who he is. The site explains why they don't give their names. It's not about personal noterity or fame for them. They are humble & don't seek public attention, They have many parishoners & duties to attend to. Their sermons are a throwback that my grandparents probably heard. I've never heard them discuss immigration. They arent modernists or libs at all. And, to clarify, I do know who they are. I've met with them & atended Mass at the parish many times since we came upon it, anyway after I began listening to their very beautiful & instructional material. You can check out the site if you're interested. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
And you're noticeably not answering "Does he oppose the ironclad Catholic dogma of open borders for white countries -- one of the main tools of the rottenness you mention" :-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- NN Sequitur ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Wrong. I answered that two days ago. Like I said, you love to bicker, especially about religion, yet you've oddly never even said what religion you are. I told you your very question is a lie. I posted the CCC on immigration many times here. There's no such "iron clad dogma" of open borders. No such thing exists. Then I told you that ive never heard them mention immigration. Just as I've never heard Bishop Sheen or Fr Coughlin talk about it.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Do I love to bicker, or do you love to grab every oppty to promote Romanism? We seem to disagree about the history on this, but I don't think you can deny that Rome wants open borders for amerika and it's dutifully pushed in virtually all parishes too -- "ALWAYS WELCOME THE STRANGER", ad inf. Sure, it's not official dogma, but based on long observation and research it's very iron-clad indeed. Nobody's ever asked my religion, but it should fairly obvious: sola Scriptura, sola veritas. Veritas über alles! There's no need to get het up, amigo. I'm not :-] --------------------------------------------------------------- NN Sequitur
You must be talking about Dr. Jack Kevorkian. He was a trip himself. ;) "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
Just saw this update today, don't know if it's a re-post. New Video Shows Two Camera Angles Of LaVoy Finicum Shooting
"Agencies that commit atrocities should be abolished"
FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting www.oregonlive.com/oregon- standoff/2016/03/oregon_standoff_fbi_agents_und.html
Thanks for the link, I will watch it later. Im shocked the cops didnt destroy that video. I assume it was acquired through pretrial discovery from one of the many refuge defendants.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
That's out there.
#24. To: Artisan (#22)
Exactly! Only a completely irrational maniac does this. I think it's unspeakably foolish for people to characterize these actions as somehow noble or heroic.
#25. To: Pinguinite (#18)
It's possible Finicum preferred to be shot & killed instead of arrested. Didn't he voice as much? If so, then his actions of getting out of the car and reaching in his jacket -- if that's what he did -- might have been intentional with the desired result achieved.
#26. To: Artisan (#10)
#27. To: christine (#26)
#28. To: christine (#26)
The treasonous bastards shot him BEFORE he reached into his jacket.
#29. To: Pinguinite (#24)
#30. To: christine, ada (#26)
#31. To: christine (#26)
#32. To: Artisan (#29)
I agree that standing on principle is noble, even to death as my tagline says. But suicide by cop isn't noble, it is sinful and crazy.
#33. To: Artisan (#29)
I agree that standing on principle is noble, even to death as my tagline says. But suicide by cop isn't noble, it is sinful and crazy.
#34. To: Pinguinite (#31)
There should be more videos than just the helicopter vid. There should be video and audio on the ground as well. The police knew this was going to happen, and dash cams and so on are all standard.
#35. To: All (#31)
#36. To: NeoconsNailed (#35)
#37. To: Pinguinite (#33)
#38. To: Artisan (#37)
#39. To: Artisan (#37)
I agree that standing on principle is noble, even to death
#40. To: NeoconsNailed (#38)
#41. To: Pinguinite (#39)
#42. To: Artisan (#40)
Yes, id warn anyone who advocates or plans on "mercy killing" that it ' its 100% evil and that theyll go to hell for it. Although i can not judge the fate of those who have done it
#43. To: Artisan (#41)
#44. To: Pinguinite (#43)
#45. To: Pinguinite (#43)
#46. To: NeoconsNailed (#42)
#47. To: Artisan (#45)
#48. To: Artisan (#45)
I have a question for you also. What's the big distinction between suicide as running away from problem as you said was condemned in your belief system vs Mercy killing?
#49. To: NeoconsNailed (#47)
#50. To: Pinguinite (#48)
#51. To: Artisan (#50)
Although id argue that the mere fact that someone isnt productive does not diminish the value of their life. Is there value in suffering, in your belief system/religion?
We can offer up suffering in reparation of sin and for other reasons. That is quite foreign to many people today. Suffering can be a great source of sanctification. Many saints throughout the centuries have written on this, even going so far as to say that if we don't have a cross, we should pray for one. I know, wild stuff to most people. Bishop Sheen preached a lot on these concepts.
#52. To: Artisan (#49)
(Edited)
#53. To: NeoconsNailed (#52)
#54. To: Artisan (#53)
#55. To: NeoconsNailed (#54)
#56. To: Artisan (#55)
#57. To: NeoconsNailed (#56)
#58. To: Artisan (#57)
#59. To: Artisan (#40)
plans on "mercy killing"
#60. To: Artisan (#0)
#61. To: StraitGate (#60)
#62. To: Ada (#61)
#63. To: StraitGate (#60)
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest