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Title: Trump Defeated Himself in Iowa
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URL Source: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ru ... -himself/2016/02/02/id/712280/
Published: Feb 2, 2016
Author: Christopher Ruddy
Post Date: 2016-02-02 06:24:40 by BTP Holdings
Keywords: None
Views: 3688
Comments: 126
Trump Defeated Himself in Iowa Image: Trump Defeated Himself in Iowa By Christopher Ruddy | Tuesday, 02 Feb 2016 12:04 AM Ted Cruz didn’t defeat Donald Trump Monday night in Iowa. Trump defeated himself. I have no doubt that polls showing Trump leading in Iowa – and across the nation – have been largely accurate. Trump is fresh, bold, brash and brave. His message is resonating with millions of Americans. In some ways, he could be starting a Great Awakening in American politics, paving the way for “outsiders” to finally have their voice heard in Washington. If Trump were elected president, it would be historic — the first “Citizen President.” Every president to date has been a politician or general. But Iowa underscores that Trump’s great strengths can turn into fatal weaknesses, and this phenomena will make his gaining the nomination difficult. Here’s why. Trump lost Iowa largely for one reason: he crushed Ben Carson. Remember the likable doctor who was leading in Iowa polls? Trump hit Dr. Ben hard, questioning his integrity and even his medical acumen. Trump, as we know, is a super-effective communicator. Perhaps the best communicator ever fielded in a GOP race. Trump used his verbal powers and eviscerated Carson. Carson’s poll numbers collapsed, his campaign staff quit and his fundraising machine ground to a halt. But it was a Pyrrhic victory for Trump because the Carson voters didn’t back him – they switched to Cruz! Poll numbers shows Cruz’s dramatic rise right after the Carson collapse. Trump effectively defeated Carson to elect Cruz. Had Carson remained higher in the polls, he would have become Cruz’s target, and the pair would have divided the evangelical vote, paving the way for an easy Trump win. The lesson of Iowa is this: Reagan’s 11th Commandment makes great political sense. Reagan’s directive famously said, “Thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow Republican.” The idea is that GOP rivals can and should vigorously disagree on policy matters – but personal attacks should be avoided at all costs. Reagan himself fought a bitter primary against Gerald Ford in 1976. But Reagan’s campaign was a battle for his ideas – never a personal attack on Ford. After Iowa, I have little doubt that Donald Trump will continue to lead the GOP field heading into New Hampshire’s primary. But Trump has to remember that as every candidate drops out – especially grassroots conservatives like Rand Paul, Ben Carson, Mike Huckabee, Carly Fiorina, and Rick Santorum – their supporters have to go somewhere. Trump’s sharp attacks on his fellow GOP rivals will make capturing these voters difficult. For the moment, Ted Cruz seems more inviting to them. Back in November, after Trump had dominated the polls for so long, he should have made a strategic pivot to reach out to critics and take the high road. He waited until tonight to do so. His concession speech was terrific, with a perfect tone. “I love the people of Iowa,” Trump said as he graciously congratulated Ted Cruz. If Trump takes this new tack in the wake of Iowa, he just may win this yet. Read Latest Breaking News from http://Newsmax.com www.newsmax.com/Newsfront.../id/712280/#ixzz3z0b6AHEu Poster Comment: Happy Ground Hog Day.
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#11. To: Artisan (#9)
No one here, literally no one that I've seen, seems to recognize him as the ZOG/ZOE facilitator that he is, by his own words. I just don't get it. Talk about selective reading and cognizance. I always viewed people here as more objective. Again, not that it matters in the grand scheme, but we're either talking facts or continuing on in a charade that we traditionally have hammered on here in a terminal fashion. Eyes wide shut.
Not quite sure what you're actually saying here. Are you suggesting that he's not neocon? If so, you're drastically incorrect. He's neocon to the core. It may not play that way in the papers, but when you come out directly and say that you're going to build the biggest military that we've ever had, despite the fact that it's currently larger than the next 11 combined, move our embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, fully support the very financial institutions in our nation that are at the core of almost all of our issues, then frankly, I'm not sure how much more neocon one can be.
Every other candidate is owned by Wall Street except for Sanders who is an idiot. Cruz is owned by Goldman Sachs. Rand sold America out to Monsanto over GMO labeling. And Rubio is trying to suck up to Sheldon Adelson. I usually vote Libertarian or Ralph Nader. Not this time. I will vote for Trump. I am expecting the worst financial crisis in 500 years because we have more Unpayable Debts than any time in 500 years. A Depression is a period in time when Unpayable Debts are cancelled en masse. I want Trump to be President if there is martial law. 3 million Americans starved to death in the 1930s. We will lose 10 million to starvation this time unless we arrest Bankers and seize assets.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
Time will tell what he's really made of -- and only time.
Agree. Thanks.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
This is the hazard of a vote system that only lets you express a favorable opinion for 1 candidate of many. It's very archaic. Approval voting lets voters vote for everyone they like. Whomever is liked the most, wins.
Would it change things if everyone here favored a different candidate?
Approval voting lets voters vote for everyone they like. Whomever is liked the most, wins. Big amen. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
You're clearly watching/reading far too much mainstream news. Trump is up to his ears in mainstream establishment. In fact, find for me one, just one, key quote on any one of the following topics, the single biggest in terms of the undermining and subversion of our liberties, that indicates unequivocally that Trump is not an establishmentarian, just one on any of them? Finance/economy Those are the single biggest areas in which our liberties have been eroded. I can find you all kinds of quotes indicating that he is nothing but an establishmentarian there. Seriously, I don't know where you're getting your info, but it's terminally flawed. Othwerwise, the last person that I want in charge when we have martial law is someone that wants to create the biggest military in our history, that is on-record against certain elements of our population that with the stroke of a pen we could easily join for an infinite number of reasons, one that favors the death penalty for anyone that kills a cop without any qualification in terms of circumstances, and one that fully supports the anti-Christian, yea Satanic behavior, of an entire nation in the Middle East. I'm both flabberghasted and distraught that anyone that reads here regularly would or could possibly say what you just said. Truly. I'll tell ya though, you are a fantastic poster-child for exactly how we screw ourselves despite the fact that you yourself do not have any significant impact as a single person. You represent the "send yourself into slavery with a smile" methodology that has been perpetrated upon us by the establishment. I'm stunned that you and others here cannot see that. Completely lacking wisdom.
I know right now, and anyone that doesn't has his/her eyes closed a/o hasn't done even a modest amount of research. Damn, he's even come out and told us in no uncertain terms, but just like our troops rushing to war in WWI that thought that simply because the Americans had arrived that it would be quick work over the Germans, so too people toss wisdom in the dumpster and plod forth in willful ignorance.
I guess you're gonna have to forgive some of us for not agreeing with you on this. Having a slow day, hmmm? :-) ---------------------------------------------------------- NN Sequitur
borrowed from Lew Rockwell's forum: “Awaken the Body of Christ” . . . Thomas DiLorenzo . . . by voting for Ted Cruz, said Ted, to a gang of bloodthirsty, warmongering, “evangelicals” in Iowa who loudly cheered his admonition. (All of Ted’s foreign policy advisors are among the worst of the worst of the Strangeloviean neocons). Message to all those Iowa “evangelicals”: Suckerrrrrrrrrrrs!
Yeah, Teddy's such a CHRISTIAN -- so FERVENT! www.youtube.com/watch? v=Kh5YWrqh6RM All he has to do is spout such niceties and his despicable, genocidal vitriol isn't just forgiven but totally forgotten. ----------------------------------------------------------- NN Sequitur
Not exactly forgiven because he was never condemned for it in the first place.
What kind of a question is that? It's entire premise is flawed. All we talk about here is how it doesn't matter since anyone that would even be truly considered by the establishment must be owned. Yet, in this case it's different. LMAO Seriously? There is no hope in any of the candidates and if there were you can rest assured that for either health reasons or assassination reasons that person wouldn't make it thru 12 months in office in one piece. Or perhaps a "scandal" resulting in impeachment/resignation. NO! It doesn't make a damn bit of difference one way or another. Either way, the only way that Trump is anti-establishment is in financing and operating his campaign, but the anti-establishmentarianism comes to a grinding halt immediately after that. This Trump love here is laughable. ... and disturbing. Otherwise, please tell me how the following are going to do anything to reverse the current trend: An even larger military which Trump has promised. An embassy in Jerusalem. Again, what could possibly go wrong with that. LMAO Instantly bringing down the hammer of "national security" at Trump's mere mention of a problematic demographic per his personal philosophies. Keep in mind, he's fully establishment in terms of NatSec. Just as with The Patriot Act I see problems there. Granted, few others appear to see their own demise there just as with the PA. Pure IF-ism. Someone that validates in spades the charade that is our economy predicated upon the Federal Reserve system and supports it. Trump said in 2013 the following: That sound promising to you? Meanwhile, Trump gets played, or is in on, you can pick your poison, by the Federal Reserve system like a Stradivarius. In the meantime, read this, it should be enlightening. Trump is a tool of the MIC, OK, on the "business" side, the "large corporate business side," fully validating of the charade that is our Federal Reserve bogus system, pro-police-state, and seems to truly believe that our ubiquitous "news delivery system(s)" in this country are on the level. Honestly, I see little practical difference. There is no hope in politics in or current political system until the backdrop for politics changes, but even then it could even more easily go from the frying pan into the fire as well. The author is very kind to Trump in this report as well that reveals Trump to be establishmentarian.
Well, then disagree with this one;
Thanks for the pings -- I get so few anymore! www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHHxPRdwDGw ------------------------------------------------------- NN Sequitur
The only choices left are 1) Cruz who is not a citizen and has strong ties to Goldman Sachs. 2) Rubio who is not a natural born citizen and is tied at the hip to Shelson Adelson. Trump who has been attacked of late by the Establishment and Israel. You missed my pain point. If we do not arrest the Bankers and seize their assets to fund Debt Cancellation, we will see 10 million Americans starve to death. We will have martial law. The only choices are which President would you like to see in charge or maybe you would prefer a military coup? We have that many Unpayable Debts to cancel. With Debt Based money Debt Cancellation means Monetary Contraction and Depression. That is why we need a Debt Free money like Lincoln'e Greenbacks. The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
Thou shalt not belittle the magic negro.
A rainbow coalition against Jews doesn't require Whites or Pro-Whites. It can be just as brown or anti-white as you like.
Building a wall and deportations. Tariffs. A rainbow coalition against Jews doesn't require Whites or Pro-Whites. It can be just as brown or anti-white as you like.
My guess as to why that is, is that you don't care about genocide. A rainbow coalition against Jews doesn't require Whites or Pro-Whites. It can be just as brown or anti-white as you like.
It's fucking Iowa, nobody gives a shit about those corn farmers who are so damn proud of their ethanol gasoline that plays hell with our vehices/boats/lawn equipment. Trump is moving on and the Hawkeyes can go back to their winter slumber..... So my critique of the obvious Jew toady has credo. :-)
#12. To: NeoconsNailed (#10)
Bear in mind that he's evolved by the hour in the course of this campaign -- in my book going from spouting neocon BS to telling people the valid things they really want to hear to (sacre bleu!) actually believing and digging them :-)
#13. To: Katniss (#7)
#14. To: Katniss (#12)
#15. To: Horse (#13)
#16. To: BTP Holdings (#0)
#17. To: Katniss (#7)
This place is half trump4um.com now. I don't get it.
#18. To: Pinguinite (#16)
This is the hazard of a vote system that only lets you express a favorable opinion for 1 candidate of many. It's very archaic.
#19. To: Horse (#13)
Every other candidate is owned by Wall Street except for Sanders who is an idiot. Cruz is owned by Goldman Sachs. Rand sold America out to Monsanto over GMO labeling. And Rubio is trying to suck up to Sheldon Adelson. I usually vote Libertarian or Ralph Nader. Not this time. I will vote for Trump. I am expecting the worst financial crisis in 500 years because we have more Unpayable Debts than any time in 500 years. A Depression is a period in time when Unpayable Debts are cancelled en masse. I want Trump to be President if there is martial law. 3 million Americans starved to death in the 1930s. We will lose 10 million to starvation this time unless we arrest Bankers and seize assets.
National Security
Education
Israel/Zionism
#20. To: NeoconsNailed (#14)
#21. To: Katniss (#20)
#22. To: Katniss (#11)
Eyes wide shut.
#23. To: Ada (#22)
#24. To: NeoconsNailed (#23)
#25. To: Pinguinite (#17)
Would it change things if everyone here favored a different candidate?
"if you think you're going to change very substantially for the worse Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security in any substantial way, and at the same time you think you're going to win elections, it just really is not going to happen."
#26. To: NeoconsNailed, All (#21)
I guess you're gonna have to forgive some of us for not agreeing with you on this. Having a slow day, hmmm? :-)
#27. To: Katniss (#26)
#28. To: Katniss (#19)
#29. To: BTP Holdings (#0)
#30. To: Katniss (#25)
Otherwise, please tell me how the following are going to do anything to reverse the current trend:
#31. To: Katniss (#25)
Honestly, I see little practical difference.
#32. To: BTP Holdings (#0)
-Alex Kurtagic
#33. To: Horse (#28)
I agree, but look at what happened to the Liberty Dollar a number of years ago. This alternative currency was actually backed by gold and silver on deposit at a vault. They were driven out of business by the establishment which could not have any such thing become a threat to the FED and its funny money system. The Liberty Dollar worked very well. I recall there was a town in Arkansas that you could go and trade your FRNs for Liberty Dollars and shop at the many st stores in town that accepted them. When you were finished with your visit, you could trade the left over Liberty Dollars for FRNs again and leave town with what you had acquired there. The Greenbacks created by Lincoln to fund the War Between the States is what lead to his eventual assassination. John Wilkes Booth was an agent of the European bankers that Lincoln spurned, and not a southern sympathizer. ;) we need a Debt Free money
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
#34. To: BTP Holdings, 4 (#33)
trump in nh tonight
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
#35. To: BTP Holdings (#33)
A Debt Free money is what Greenbacks were. When we were on the gold standard, you could deposit one $20 gold coin. And your Banker could loan out $200. He created $180 in checking account money as a loan at interest. And he created that checking account money out of thin air.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
#36. To: Katniss, christine (#11)
No one here, literally no one that I've seen, seems to recognize him as the ZOG/ZOE facilitator that he is, by his own words. I just don't get it. Talk about selective reading and cognizance. I always viewed people here as more objective. yeah it used to annoy me too, but I figure it's like this. if we're talking about the average American, I'm sure you could understand how and why they like trump's message. they are very unsophisticated and naïve, gullible. I have likened them to literal retarded children or starving stray dogs,,, you cant help but have pity on them,. However, people "in the know", like those here, or the jew-wise folks, the 9/11 awake folks, the "NWO" experts, youre asking "howTF can they be so dumb to fall for trump??!" That is actually a damn good question, which baffled me at first., and still does to a degree, . However, I figured most people here have to know his faults. its just that they accept and overlook them, because trump appears to be rogue and independent compared to the other absolute piles of trash that we have running. Trump is not a PC prissy politician with a history of crimes against humanity, and so if the choice is him or Hillary, the choice is clear for them. I understand, because, like them, if we must choose, I'd much rather have trump in there than Hillary or bush or cruz, etc.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
#37. To: Katniss (#25)
ROFL..... my question was a very funny one. That's what kind it was. I think you catch my point more than you realize. Trump is a wildcard of sorts. If he gets the presidency, then anything could happen. Or maybe nothing. With anyone else, it's more likely nothing will happen -- meaning nothing will change. I'm enjoying the fact that the GOP is floundering in Trump's shadow. Or seems to be, at least. When was the last time we've seen that? Other than that, what's wrong with getting the popcorn, pulling up a chair and watching the Trump show? Since it really doesn't matter who we here on 4um would prefer when the presidency, what's wrong with some real live entertainment? Sure Trump would likely do a lot of things we here on 4um don't like. But if he also does some things the establishment doesn't like, like declassifying all the documents that embarrass the hell out of most every western government including past USA admins, then that's a good thing. What kind of a question is that? It's entire premise is flawed.
#38. To: Artisan (#36)
However, people "in the know", like those here, or the jew-wise folks, the 9/11 awake folks, the "NWO" experts, youre asking "howTF can they be so dumb to fall for trump??!" That is actually a damn good question, which baffled me at first., and still does to a degree, . However, I figured most people here have to know his faults. its just that they accept and overlook them, because trump appears to be rogue and independent compared to the other absolute piles of trash that we have running. Trump is not a PC prissy politician with a history of crimes against humanity, and so if the choice is him or Hillary, the choice is clear for them. I understand, because, like them, if we must choose, I'd much rather have trump in there than Hillary or bush or cruz, etc. I don't think it would make a damn bit of difference. Apparently no one that supports him here has ever bothered to look at the types that backpats with kudos and props at the highest levels, each and every single one an establishmentarian. Which brings us to the second point, that anyone here truly even remotely puts faith into whomever it might be is astonishing in and of itself in this corrupt, mindless, emotionally-laden charade of a things we actually call "free elections." The same exact arguments that you just made were applied, and then quite some more, in the Junior v. Gore election of 2000 and frankly, I have a difficult time even remotely considering that Gore in as the stooge in chief would have been worse. yeah it used to annoy me too, but I figure it's like this. if we're talking about the average American, I'm sure you could understand how and why they like trump's message. they are very unsophisticated and naïve, gullible. I have likened them to literal retarded children or starving stray dogs,,, you cant help but have pity on them,.
#39. To: Pinguinite (#37)
I think you catch my point more than you realize. Trump is a wildcard of sorts. If he gets the presidency, then anything could happen. Or maybe nothing. With anyone else, it's more likely nothing will happen -- meaning nothing will change. I'm enjoying the fact that the GOP is floundering in Trump's shadow. Or seems to be, at least. When was the last time we've seen that? Here's my take: Who cares about the GOP, part of the problem as an organization that's part of the huge ruse. You're wrong about nothing changing, what will change is the people along the lines of demographics will become a whole lot more emotionally charged and adversarial and combative, and yes, ultimately physically so. Who knows, perhaps the result will be all-out civil war, I wouldn't be a plug nickel against it if he wins. We rant about that being the goal here, well, now those ranting about it want to desperately usher it in. Madness, gullibility, and idiocy at its finest! Trump will also usher in the complete and utter eradication of any semblance of dignity associated with the office. He already is doing that. How can this possibly result in anything but what's not good. Trump is like a child in the midst of a tantrum. The thrice divorced, 5 times bankrupted, 4 times military draft deferments is going to lecture us all on morality. Sure. Just don't count me in as one of the mindless fools buying even a shred of that. Otherwise, you are absolutely correct, absolutely nothing will change as he'll put in place very similar people to what any other candidate would. He has no record of going outside any establishment in his personal dealings whatsoever. He praises establishment people, methods, institutions, etc., and is promising to bolster the worst of them. Again, fools climb aboard. This has absolutely nothing to do with any change, it has to do with how I and others view this forum. On one hand we talk a good game, on the other we're too dumb to be able to figure our for ourselves when we're being played but continue to criticize others for not being able to recognize those same things. Nothing's wrong with "grabbing the popcorn," but that's not what's going on here. What's going on here is all but active support for Trump, a huge difference. The mindset here is something other than entertainment and is discouraging given how many people here seem to believe that Trump would actually make a difference besides what I just mentioned. But don't be gullible enough to think that one man makes that kind of difference. Only what suits the establishment will be de-classified, that's a fact. And what is, as with the recently "de-classified" JFK documents, will be so redacted as to be almost worthless anyway. That's what "de-classification" means these days. Don't think for two seconds that Trump would come out and piss in his own stated philosophy on national security anyway, he wouldn't. If anything he's the most police-state oriented one on the current roster. He's said so, but hey, just as with the actual statements of the PTB, who cares when we can watch the TOOOB and have pep-rally brainlessness to wave the banner of, right. ROFL..... my question was a very funny one. That's what kind it was.
Other than that, what's wrong with getting the popcorn, pulling up a chair and watching the Trump show? Since it really doesn't matter who we here on 4um would prefer when the presidency, what's wrong with some real live entertainment?
Sure Trump would likely do a lot of things we here on 4um don't like. But if he also does some things the establishment doesn't like, like declassifying all the documents that embarrass the hell out of most every western government including past USA admins, then that's a good thing.
#40. To: Pinguinite, Artisan, Christine, All (#37) (Edited)
FOR SHAME!
#41. To: Katniss (#39)
Well, it does seem quite evident that the GOP establishment does NOT like Trump at all. I certainly don't look forward to the violence of any civil war. Having said that, there is a reasonable argument that there is no way things will improve without one, so ushering it in sooner rather than later doesn't hurt things. (Then again, civil wars rarely, if ever, bring any civil rights improvement to a country anyway). Along the lines of the above, electing horrible people to office can bring about the "needed" collapse sooner, so what's wrong with that? The boiling frog argument applies too. Put someone in office who's only somewhat horrible, then you get compliance and "give democracy a chance". Put someone like Hillary in, and people are more likely to take the "WTF!" response. All in all, though, if we take the position that it won't matter one bit who gets in office, then deriding any one candidate is no more productive than favoring any other candidate, is it?
#42. To: Pinguinite (#41)
So what? That's what I don't get, so what? There have been lots of people/candidates over the years that have been "disliked" by their parties that would have been no different in office than anyone that they liked. Well, I for one wouldn't mind peace for as long as possible. This charade of an economy is just that, a charade. There's no correcting it without dismantling the global cabal financial apparatus that created it and the odds of that happening are probably about the same as a 4um member winning the Power Ball. I'm for correction as much as the next guy, but when "correction" entails death and destruction, then count me out. And frankly that's what we have to look forward to now. So in essence you're saying bring death and destruction on then, ... for the record? Sorry, can't go along. You're now sidestepping the point. I addressed the first question above. Otherwise, the second question is irrelevant here. You are correct that none of what we think matters on iota in the grand scheme of things. But all along I have been pointing out that the issue I have is with the double-standards and hypocrisy of people here. On one hand they speak against certain things, and here now, they support the very things in a different form, that they've derided. We're here to discuss and interact. I feel like coming here is no different these days as it is talking to my MSM network news spoonfed friends and acquaintenances around here. They're all now blinded to reality. That's the issue, not whether we make up any critical mass, which no one here has argued. Trump has police state written all over him. When TSHTF it's going to be FUGLY and IMO this forum and others like it will be shut down. I can wait another four years to have it unfold. Either way, so far I've listed specifically, Trump's positions on numerous key issues, and will do so now again, and yet not one person has actually countered those positions as articulated by him, rather all I hear/see/read is how he's different. ... Insanity! Trump is 110% IF-er!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Trump has stated he wants to bolster the military and further apply it!!! Trump is in favor of kill-a-cop-get-the-death-penalty w/o any qualification of that statement whatsoever. Trump is obviously pro-financial markets and pro-existing financial system!! Anyone denying that has no clue. Those are the single biggest issues of our day and the ones that are turning our nation into a living hell and he's on the wrong side of them. Everyone here speaks against them incessantly, yet, in this case they're for them. Again, insanity or idiocy. They can pick their poison. Otherwise, IMO they need to shut-up because they're talking out of both sides, which, at least to me, is not what 4um is all about, or at least hasn't been about. Apparently it is these days. In a way I hope we get the bastard so that hopefully people finally get the kick in the teeth that we need along with the millions of deaths and maybe, just maybe, in 20 years, after which I won't be alive, or perhaps won't care to be, we'll have some hope. I doubt it, just sayin'. I'm at the point where I've seen just about all I need to from this shitty world. My fear is for my kids and again, sorry, I have a difficult time foisting a horrific civil if not world war on them. But think about what you said, in short you don't seem to mind sending this world into the hell that awaits sooner rather than later. I cannot relate. Well, it does seem quite evident that the GOP establishment does NOT like Trump at all.
Having said that, there is a reasonable argument that there is no way things will improve without one, so ushering it in sooner rather than later doesn't hurt things. (Then again, civil wars rarely, if ever, bring any civil rights improvement to a country anyway).
Along the lines of the above, electing horrible people to office can bring about the "needed" collapse sooner, so what's wrong with that? The boiling frog argument applies too. Put someone in office who's only somewhat horrible, then you get compliance and "give democracy a chance". Put someone like Hillary in, and people are more likely to take the "WTF!" response.
All in all, though, if we take the position that it won't matter one bit who gets in office, then deriding any one candidate is no more productive than favoring any other candidate, is it?
#43. To: Katniss (#42)
For what it's worth I get your points and made them all last year when i compiled the record on this open border, anti gun, zionist clown. For another example, trump says he will quote "repeal Obama care (he never says how he will do that) and "replace it with something else, something better'". The crowd cheers wildly for this. Like I said man, they're literally like retards. Number one, trump is admittedly not against centralized control of "health care." I wouldn't get too frustrated with it all, though I understand your frustration with seeing folks who are supposedly in the know who would balk if any other candidates said the exact same stupid deranged shit that trump says daily. The clencher is that he says a lot of good things,too. That is what he is skillful at. Again, insanity or idiocy
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
#44. To: Artisan (#43)
That's exactly right. He's also not against foreign wars. He's also not against the Fed or its rigged system. He's also not against corporate perks since he himself has availed himself of them way too many times to count. He's full-fledged IF-er. He's full-fledged MIC. But as you said above, the kicker is that he talks incessantly about what he's going to do. People admit that he's an "outsider," although most fail to accurately recognize that that's only as a politician, as a businessman he's hardly an outsider, he's pure establishmentarian. The frustration stems from people here that spout to the contrary 24/7/365 yet cannot see thru this blatant charade. To then turn around and criticize the rest of the nation for doing the same at different levels is hypocritical. As they say, get one's house in order before going on the speaking circuit with advice on how to do that. Number one, trump is admittedly not against centralized control of "health care."
I wouldn't get too frustrated with it all, though I understand your frustration with seeing folks who are supposedly in the know who would balk if any other candidates said the exact same stupid deranged shit that trump says daily. The clencher is that he says a lot of good things,too. That is what he is skillful at.
#45. To: Katniss (#42)
First, I already stated that I do not welcome violence. And it's particularly unwelcome when levied against innocent people. So I'll restate that for the record. I want to be clear on that. Your points against Trump are very valid. But if you don't believe the election system works, if you believe any and every candidate who could get elected is obviously a poison to original American values & civil liberties, etc then what's your solution? Do you have one? I don't think you do. And I don't either. No one here does. And now you come close to criticizing me not because I welcome civil war, but because I predict it as an only possible path to breaking the establishment. And you criticize so many others here on 4um because they may lend more favor to Trump as though it might make a difference in who gets elected? Personally, I see disfavoring a candidate, as you do Trump, to be as useless as favoring any other candidate. So what's the big deal? What good does it do to criticize others here? My take: The USA is simply far too large. In a country with some 340 million people, one person's vote is trash. That's the way it is. The system is broken as it does not represent the will of the people or the states. Everyone would be better off if the country was broken up into about 6-8 different smaller countries. That way there would be less concentration of power and stronger local voices in how things should be. In a time when entertainment might be the only antidote to the state of affairs, I suggest you take things too seriously. Then again, you have kids. I don't. So that's a difference that would show our differences, too. My best, Katniss.
#46. To: Pinguinite (#45)
Again, you're missing my point(s) entirely, which I've explained now several times. Go read again. The issue has absolutely nothing to do with "solutions, candidates, (s)elections," etc. There are no solutions in politics, none whatsoever, particularly in our rigged system(s). For anyone that's missed it over the years, all that new selectees do is tack on more laws to the already exponentially absurd stack of laws that already exist and they rarely if ever, and never in the most critical ways, actually undo anything that their predecessor did. Rather, it has everything to do with people that apparently are being very easily duped right here, regular posters to this forum, that chastise and slam others, generically and at large, for doing the same exact things that they are now doing re: Trump, namely being duped by what IMO is the patently blatant. I can't make it any more clear than that. To me if that's what the discussion has deteriorated to here, as I've said, a pro-Trump 4um, then it's become useless for the exchange of info and ideas and no longer stands out in a world that desperately needs oases of reason. Read what I just wrote several times and my point should become quite clear. At this point this place may as well be a Trump 4um. That's not a good thing as it demonstrates the complete opposite of what this place originally stood for. If people cannot see that it's entirely because they're at least momentarily absorbed in the moment, just like the rest of the sheep out there. Your points against Trump are very valid. But if you don't believe the election system works, if you believe any and every candidate who could get elected is obviously a poison to original American values & civil liberties, etc then what's your solution? Do you have one?
#47. To: Katniss (#46)
It'll be gone on a few months anyway when the elections over so who cares? She only opened it back up temporarily, to be nice . If its that aggrivating to read the constant trump love then ditch the place. I actually think most posters here view trump as mere entertainment. At this point this place may as well be a Trump 4um. That's not a good thing as it demonstrates the complete opposite of what this place originally stood for.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
#48. To: Katniss (#46)
This is key to our entire problem, and why many here see Trump as potentially a total change from the status quo. He might be wonderful, or he might be awful; but at least he'd be different from everyone that's been potus since JFK. We're ready to take that chance. There's really nothing to lose unless you like Hillary! or Rubio. The issue has absolutely nothing to do with "solutions, candidates, (s)elections," etc. There are no solutions in politics, none whatsoever, particularly in our rigged system(s). For anyone that's missed it over the years, all that new selectees do is tack on more laws to the already exponentially absurd stack of laws that already exist and they rarely if ever, and never in the most critical ways, actually undo anything that their predecessor did.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
#49. To: Artisan (#47)
Well, not sure about most, don't know how many there are, but the reality is that a good number seem to be excited that Trump will bring change if elected. As to re-opening it temporarily, if this is what it has deteriorated to, may as well close it again. JMO I actually think most posters here view trump as mere entertainment.
#50. To: Artisan, Katniss (#47) (Edited)
We are OVER, DONE FOR, DOWN THE DRAIN if Hillary or Sanders is selected. There will be nothing to talk about. In that scenario, I, for one, am checking out. At least with Trump, as Lod wrote, there's a chance for change for the better no matter how small and there will be a lot to talk about. Listen to Roger Stone on Alex Jones' show yesterday. I think he makes compelling points. 24 minutes in.
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