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Title: Creationists: can they be scientists? You bet!
Source: Answers In Genesis
URL Source: http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/wow/preview/part9.asp
Published: Feb 11, 2006
Author: Pam S. Sheppard
Post Date: 2006-02-11 17:02:42 by A K A Stone
Keywords: Creationists:, scientists?, they
Views: 1774
Comments: 382

As an astrophysicist, Dr. Jason Lisle (author of chapters 5, 6, and 10 of War of the Worldviews) knows that a belief in molecules-to-man evolution is not needed to understand how planets orbit the sun or how telescopes operate. While some evolutionists are spreading the false idea that creationists can’t be real scientists, Lisle is busy doing real science.

In fact, he (along with hundreds of other scientists) knows that science works perfectly well without any connection to evolution. Dr. David Menton, cell biologist and popular AiG speaker and writer, has often said that although it is widely believed, “evolution contributes nothing to our understanding of empirical science and thus plays no essential role in biomedical research or education.”

As Lisle points out in this chapter, even the rise of technology is not due to a belief in evolution. He writes, “Computers, cellular phones and DVD players all operate based on the laws of physics, which God created. It is because God created a logical, orderly universe and gave us the ability to reason and to be creative that technology is possible.”

So, why are there such differences between evolutionary scientists and creation scientists if both groups have the same evidence? Lisle addresses these differing conclusions by explaining that each group starts with different assumptions when interpreting evidence. Creationists and evolutionists have a different view of history, but the way they do science in the present is the same.

Lisle writes that both creationists and evolutionists use observation and experimentation to draw conclusions about nature. Since observational scientific theories are capable of being tested in the present, creationists and evolutionists generally agree on these models. For instance, they agree on the nature of gravity, the composition of stars, the speed of light in a vacuum, the size of the solar system, etc.

On the other hand, historical events cannot be checked scientifically in the present. We don’t have access to the past. As Lisle points out, we can make educated guesses about the past and can make inferences from fossils and rocks, but we cannot directly test our conclusions because past events cannot be repeated.

With evolutionists and creationists having such different views of history, is it any wonder that each group arrives at such varying interpretations? Biblical creationists accept the recorded history of the Bible as their starting point while evolutionists reject this recorded history and have made up their own pseudo-history from which to interpret evidence, Lisle explains.

The fact that there are scientists who believe in biblical creation is nothing new. In this chapter, Lisle discusses several “real” scientists who believe in the Genesis account of creation, including Isaac Newton (1642–1727), who co-discovered calculus, formulated the laws of motion and gravity, and computed the nature of planetary orbits, among other things.

Today, there are many Ph.D. scientists who reject evolution and believe that God created in six days, a few thousand years ago, as recorded in Scripture. As Lisle points out, his Ph.D. research (which was completed at a secular university) was not hindered by the conviction that the early chapters of Genesis are literally true. In fact, it’s just the reverse, he writes.

“It is because a logical God created and ordered the universe that I, and other creationists, expect to be able to understand aspects of that universe through logic, careful observation and experimentation,” Lisle explains.

Lisle concludes the chapter by posing the question, “Why should there be laws of nature if there is no lawgiver?”

“If our minds have been designed, and if the universe has been constructed by God, as the Bible teaches, then of course we should be able to study nature. Science is possible because the Bible is true,” says Lisle.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 10.

#1. To: A K A Stone (#0)

Stone,

This is curious and circular reasoning. You presuppose that your theory is true to support that your theory is in fact true.

This argument is illogical.

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-12   14:50:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Feynman Lives! (#1)

This argument is illogical.

Evolution uses circular reasoning. Science doesn't contradict the Bible.

A K A Stone  posted on  2006-02-12   15:59:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: A K A Stone (#6)

Stone,

The bible is a mythological book, it is not factual.

Science CLEARLY shows where, for example, there is not enough hydrogen and oxygen on the planet to flood it to the point were all living things die. Along that line, what about ducks, geese, turtles, and the other things that could float or swim? Noah did not take two blue whales on "the ark" so how did they survive "god's wrath?" And what, exactly, IS a "Bad Duck" or a "Bad Giraffe" and why did it deserve to die in the first place?

There are many examples of scientific impossibilities in the bible, but I won't try to start a fight with you about it.

Evolution does not use circular reasoning, sir. It is not circular reasoning when you look 50,000 years in the past and see the genetic links between something that existed back then, and trace it's roots to common day species.

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-12   16:06:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Feynman Lives! (#7)

Noah did not take two blue whales on "the ark

No. The ark was for land animals. He didn't take any fish or squid either.

A K A Stone  posted on  2006-02-12   16:34:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 10.

#13. To: A K A Stone (#10)

No. The ark was for land animals. He didn't take any fish or squid either.

Did Noah take germs and virus' into the ark? I've always wondered about this.

...  posted on  2006-02-12 23:23:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: A K A Stone (#10)

No. The ark was for land animals. He didn't take any fish or squid either.

Did the world flood with salt water or fresh?

If it was salt then Noah would have had to take all the fresh water fish. They can't live in salt water.

If it was fresh, which seems a safe guess given the rain, then Noah really would have had to take all the whales and Dolphins. They can't live in fresh water. The ark would have had to be as big as Sea World. How big was it?

...  posted on  2006-02-12 23:30:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: A K A Stone (#10)

The ark was for land animals

Stone,

Do you realize how foolish your statement is

Let's just take a look at what the bible tells us and see if it holds water...

"And God said unto Noah, . . . Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. And this [is the fashion] which thou shalt make it [of]: The length of the ark [shall be] three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; [with] lower, second, and third [stories] shalt thou make it. " (Gen. 6:13-16)

A cubit is the distance between an adult's elbow and tip of the finger, generally 18-inches. Most Hebrew scholars believe the cubit to have been between 17½ -21½ inches long. This means that the ark would have been 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high if the 18 inch cubit was used. If a larger cubit was used it would have been proportionately longer.

The displacement tonnage of the ark, which is the weight of water it would displace at a draught of 15 cubits, would be more than 22,000 tons. By comparison the U.S.S. Salem, a 716-foot-long heavy cruiser commissioned in 1949, has a displacement tonnage of 21,500 tons. The ark's gross tonnage which is a measure of cubic space (100 cubic feet is one gross ton) would be 15,100 tons. The ark's total volume would have been 1,518,000 cubic feet. This would equal the capacity of 569 modern railroad stock cars. The standard size for a stock car is 44 feet long and a volume of 2670 cubic feet. This would make a train more than 5 ½ miles long. The floor space for the ark would be over 101,000 square feet. This would be more floor space than 21 standard college basketball courts. By comparing the measurements of the ark it is easy to see that it would be comparable to today's ocean going vessels. It was probably the largest vessel of its type built until the late 1800's when metal ships were first constructed.

Dimension of the Ark: 300 cubits x 50 cubits x 30 cubits. If the cubit used is 18" then conversion gives us the following dimensions: 450 ft x 75 ft x 45 ft

Deck Area of the Ark: 450 ft x 75 ft x 3 decks = 101,250 ft2

Volume of the Ark: 450 ft x 75 ft x 45 ft = 1,518,750 ft3

So, you are looking at a ship roughly HALF the size of the Queen Mary.

NOT a big craft by any standards.

There are millions of species of animals on this planet, and a good chunk of them live on the land. According to the bible, Noah basically took anything that lived on land or had wings. That means Noah was required to bring along two of each species of mammal, reptile, bird, amphibian, and insect. The insect group alone has millions of species, and combined with the other animals that Noah had to bring, the number of species is astronomical. Take that number and double it, and you will have the number of animals that Noah had on his ark (doubling it because there are two of each species).

Trying to breed back to life all of the species that Noah didn't take with him with a few animals from each family is ridiculous. It's impossible. It's impractical. Noah had to take all of the species with him. Claiming that the bible means a larger group of taxonomy when it says kind is only done to explain away the problem proposed by the size of the ark. But the animals are not the biggest problem for the size of the ark. It's their food that's the real problem. Noah and his animal friends were on the ark for about a year (although it only rained for forty days, it took the rest of the year for the water to dry up). That means that Noah had to have brought along enough food to sustain each creature for a year. The amount of food needed to sustain the animals would, I imagine, take up more than twice the amount of space as the animals themselves. Suppose that the average human eats one pound a day. I'm pretty sure it's more that, but for simplicity, let's say it's a pound a day. That means that in one year, a human would eat 365 pounds of food. That's more than twice the weight of the average person. If you have three meals a day, then that means that for each person, there would be 1,095 meals on the ark. Now imagine all of the food that would be required to feed all these animals for an entire year. It's a huge amount of weight, and it would take up an unthinkable amount of room on the ark. There is absolutely no way that Noah could have fit all of the animals and their food for a year on the ark.

Heck, there are over 350,000 species of BEETLE alone. How did Noah know when he had them all?

Also, if he took TWO of every animal... then you would not be able to have all the different genetic combinations within the species. you can't take two dogs and two wolves and make all the species of dogs and wolves we see today. You simply can't do it. It's genetically impossible. The genes for all of the traits of every kind of dog species are not in one dog, nor are all of the genes for all of the traits of every kind of wolf species in one wolf. To get all of the different genes that are present in each species of dog (and that are required to breed the dog into existence), you need many dogs. You can't have the genes for green eyes, blue eyes and brown eyes all in one person, can you? You can't have the genes for short and floppy ears, long and floppy ears, and long and hard ears all in one dog, can you? Of course you can't. You need many people to carry all of the genes for eye color or hair color or skin color. You need many dogs to carry all of the genes for ear structure or hair color. One person cannot have blonde, brown, black and red hair all at the same time. You would need two people for that. (I say two instead of four because each person actually has two genes for each trait such as eye color or hair color, it's just that only one shows up [unless both are mutually dominant or recessive, let's not get into that]. One person would carry blonde and black, another would carry brown and red.)

IF that is not enough... then remember that you have to take into account the space required for ONE YEAR of WATER for everyone on board - and the issue of WASTE DISPOSAL is just laughable for all these species considering that you have fewer than a DOZEN people to pilot the ship and take care of these animals.

We've been given the size of the ark, and we've been told what animals Noah brought along with him, and they just don't coincide. It is yet another fatal flaw of the bible, pointed out by simple analysis.

Sorry, Stone, but you need to know these things if you are going to be a grown up.

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-12 23:31:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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