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Title: Creationists: can they be scientists? You bet!
Source: Answers In Genesis
URL Source: http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/wow/preview/part9.asp
Published: Feb 11, 2006
Author: Pam S. Sheppard
Post Date: 2006-02-11 17:02:42 by A K A Stone
Keywords: Creationists:, scientists?, they
Views: 2041
Comments: 382

As an astrophysicist, Dr. Jason Lisle (author of chapters 5, 6, and 10 of War of the Worldviews) knows that a belief in molecules-to-man evolution is not needed to understand how planets orbit the sun or how telescopes operate. While some evolutionists are spreading the false idea that creationists can’t be real scientists, Lisle is busy doing real science.

In fact, he (along with hundreds of other scientists) knows that science works perfectly well without any connection to evolution. Dr. David Menton, cell biologist and popular AiG speaker and writer, has often said that although it is widely believed, “evolution contributes nothing to our understanding of empirical science and thus plays no essential role in biomedical research or education.”

As Lisle points out in this chapter, even the rise of technology is not due to a belief in evolution. He writes, “Computers, cellular phones and DVD players all operate based on the laws of physics, which God created. It is because God created a logical, orderly universe and gave us the ability to reason and to be creative that technology is possible.”

So, why are there such differences between evolutionary scientists and creation scientists if both groups have the same evidence? Lisle addresses these differing conclusions by explaining that each group starts with different assumptions when interpreting evidence. Creationists and evolutionists have a different view of history, but the way they do science in the present is the same.

Lisle writes that both creationists and evolutionists use observation and experimentation to draw conclusions about nature. Since observational scientific theories are capable of being tested in the present, creationists and evolutionists generally agree on these models. For instance, they agree on the nature of gravity, the composition of stars, the speed of light in a vacuum, the size of the solar system, etc.

On the other hand, historical events cannot be checked scientifically in the present. We don’t have access to the past. As Lisle points out, we can make educated guesses about the past and can make inferences from fossils and rocks, but we cannot directly test our conclusions because past events cannot be repeated.

With evolutionists and creationists having such different views of history, is it any wonder that each group arrives at such varying interpretations? Biblical creationists accept the recorded history of the Bible as their starting point while evolutionists reject this recorded history and have made up their own pseudo-history from which to interpret evidence, Lisle explains.

The fact that there are scientists who believe in biblical creation is nothing new. In this chapter, Lisle discusses several “real” scientists who believe in the Genesis account of creation, including Isaac Newton (1642–1727), who co-discovered calculus, formulated the laws of motion and gravity, and computed the nature of planetary orbits, among other things.

Today, there are many Ph.D. scientists who reject evolution and believe that God created in six days, a few thousand years ago, as recorded in Scripture. As Lisle points out, his Ph.D. research (which was completed at a secular university) was not hindered by the conviction that the early chapters of Genesis are literally true. In fact, it’s just the reverse, he writes.

“It is because a logical God created and ordered the universe that I, and other creationists, expect to be able to understand aspects of that universe through logic, careful observation and experimentation,” Lisle explains.

Lisle concludes the chapter by posing the question, “Why should there be laws of nature if there is no lawgiver?”

“If our minds have been designed, and if the universe has been constructed by God, as the Bible teaches, then of course we should be able to study nature. Science is possible because the Bible is true,” says Lisle.

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#309. To: ... (#301)

Marlin used to make Jim wrestle the alligator while he sat in a lawn chair and bullshitted at the camera.

I don't think I ever noticed which did what. Not quite fair though was it. I do remember their voices, really bland and relaxed and soporific.

Mr Rumsfeld said the emergence of populist leaders through elections in Latin America was "worrisome".

robin  posted on  2006-02-13   21:18:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#310. To: Red Jones (#306)

Gigantic, average and miniature dobermans arn't that rare.

I knew a guy who had a positve and a negative doberman. That was unusual.

...  posted on  2006-02-13   21:19:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#311. To: ... (#308)

Which state is Cheney from?

A state of dishonesty?

totally and that's just for starters

Mr Rumsfeld said the emergence of populist leaders through elections in Latin America was "worrisome".

robin  posted on  2006-02-13   21:19:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#312. To: Red Jones (#306)

I was at someone's house recently and they had a gigantic doberman that was almost as big as a great dane. it weighed 150 lbs. and they also had a miniature doberman, 30 lbs. and they also had a medium sized doberman, 65 lbs. they said the big one (who was a male) and the little one were the parents of the medium sized one.

Not surprising.. I used to breed dogs and show them. Some think that if you want a medium sized dog you breed a large to a small somehow thinking it's like blending hot and cold water.. you get lukewarm.. It has to do with genes.. somewhere there were genes for that size dog.. If I had a large dog I'd breed it with the size I was trying to achieve.. some would be large others the correct size.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-13   21:19:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#313. To: Zipporah (#312)

Speaking of dogs, here's how you remember the metric system:

Decadant Hector killed meg's gigantic terrier.

...  posted on  2006-02-13   21:21:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#314. To: ... (#313)

Speaking of dogs, here's how you remember the metric system:

Decadant Hector killed meg's gigantic terrier.

LOL!

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-13   21:22:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#315. To: Zipporah (#307)

Just as there are compulsions let's say an adult is a pedaphile.. they cannot be reformed because their issues are psychological .. or someone having complusions in regard to exhibitionism or fetishism, sexual masochism or frotteurism.. all deviant behaviors.. all psychological.

Pedophelia, and your other sexual behaviors are radically different from homosexuality.

They don't exist across all mammalian species, homosexuality does.

Nice try, and I see where you are coming from, but it just does not fly.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:22:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#316. To: A K A Stone, Zipporah, Red Jones, Feynman Lives! (#279)

homosexuality is completely natural

Only a flaming faggot would say something like this.

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-13   21:25:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#317. To: Feynman Lives! (#315)

Pedophelia, and your other sexual behaviors are radically different from homosexuality.

They don't exist across all mammalian species, homosexuality does.

Nice try, and I see where you are coming from, but it just does not fly.

Oh really prove it.. how they dont cross mammlian species.. People are not the same as animals I might add..

And as I said before.. homosexuality in animals basically has to do with dominance.. not the same in humans now is it?

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-13   21:27:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#318. To: BTP Holdings (#316)

Only a flaming faggot would say something like this.

Only a bigoted, narrow minded, uneducated homophobe would say something like this.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:28:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#319. To: Zipporah (#317)

People are not the same as animals

People ARE animals, Zip.

Also, humans are not the only species to have sex for fun.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:29:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#320. To: Feynman Lives! (#305)

Didn't he come from the future?

Figures. I hate those fuckers.

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   21:31:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#321. To: Feynman Lives! (#319)

People ARE animals, Zip.

Also, humans are not the only species to have sex for fun.

Then their 'homosexual' behavior can't be compared to human sexual behavior.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-13   21:32:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#322. To: BTP Holdings (#316)

homosexuality is completely natural

Only a flaming faggot would say something like this.

Well, he's advanced some pretty good arguments for this position. Be sure to read them before jumping to a snap conclusion.

Trace21231  posted on  2006-02-13   21:33:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#323. To: Trace21231, BTP Holdings (#322)

Well, he's advanced some pretty good arguments for this position.

I am going to Africa to apply for a nice missionary position with the natives.

tom007  posted on  2006-02-13   21:36:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#324. To: Feynman Lives! (#315)

Pedophelia, and your other sexual behaviors are radically different from homosexuality.

They don't exist across all mammalian species,...

I have seen cats that rape, and even kill kittens. All the other cats hate those creepy, evil baby-raper kitties. Decent toms will kill a cat like that.

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   21:37:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#325. To: Feynman Lives!, BTP (#318)

uneducated

Let F-man learn ya right, BTP.

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   21:39:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#326. To: Trace21231 (#322)

Be sure to read them before jumping to a snap conclusion.

You can waste your time on this, not me.

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-13   21:40:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#327. To: Feynman Lives! (#315)

Pedophelia, and your other sexual behaviors are radically different from homosexuality.

They don't exist across all mammalian species, homosexuality does.

I saw an adult cat try to have sex with a kitten. that's pedophilia. You don't know what you're talking about.

Homosexuality is a cultural phenomenon. that is why some cultures historically have it and some don't.

In japan 500 years ago the sammurai were mostly bi-sexual. They were not genetically different, they were culturally indoctrinated to be different.

in black africa they don't even know what homosexuality is, until very recent times it didn't exist over there. the same is true for other cultures of people around the world as well.

In greece 2500 years ago or so there was one of their city-states that encouraged homosexuality among the ruling elite. The men among that elite would have sex with boys until they were about 30 and then they'd get married. this was due to cultural indoctrination. and then in other greek city-states they had virtually no homosexuality. It is a cultural phenomenon.

The US has a higher portion of its population pursueing the 'gay' lifestyle because it is a cultural phenomenon.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-02-13   21:41:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#328. To: Rabble Rouser (#325)

uneducated

Let F-man learn ya right, BTP.

That'll be the day. ROTFLMAO!

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-13   21:44:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#329. To: robin (#304)

Yes, cheney is from Wyoming.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-02-13   21:45:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#330. To: Red Jones (#327)

I saw an adult cat try to have sex with a kitten. that's pedophilia. You don't know what you're talking about

in black africa they don't even know what homosexuality is, until very recent times it didn't exist over there. the same is true for other cultures of people around the world as well.

Red

There are only three types of mammal that have sex for pleasure, and cats are not among them. Pedophelia does not exist amongst species that do not have sex for pleasure. So, you either mistook what you saw for pedophilia, or you witnessed a cat that had been damaged acting out. Either way, it was not indicative of what exists in the species.

Your statement about homosexuality in africa is just laughable! You are either just making this up, or you are clearly ignorant of history.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:49:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#331. To: BTP Holdings (#326)

To: Trace21231

Be sure to read them before jumping to a snap conclusion. You can waste your time on this, not me.

Trace...

Don't try to cloud BTP's mind with facts, it just makes him grumpy.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:50:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#332. To: tom007 (#323)

I am going to Africa to apply for a nice missionary position with the natives.

Maybe you can take Jesse Jackson with you. I hear they are looking for a new king of the Zulu.

Oh, and send me back a good Afrikaaner woman while you're there. ;0)

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-13   21:51:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#333. To: BTP Holdings, Feynman Lives! (#316)

Only a flaming faggot would say something like this.

Feynman has demonstrated a very strong affinity to homosexuality because on thread after thread after thread he loves that subject. either he's gay or he very much wants the people on this site to be focused on that issue.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-02-13   21:52:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#334. To: BTP Holdings (#332)

Oh, and send me back a good Afrikaaner woman while you're there. ;0)

Hope you like possum stew, she's the best possum cook around.

tom007  posted on  2006-02-13   21:55:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#335. To: Feynman Lives! (#330)

you witnessed a cat that had been damaged acting out.

Duh!

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   21:56:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#336. To: Red Jones (#333)

Feynman has demonstrated a very strong affinity to homosexuality because on thread after thread after thread he loves that subject. either he's gay or he very much wants the people on this site to be focused on that issue.

Red,

WOW, what an incredibly uneducated thing to say.

I have commented on a couple dozen threads, from Cheney's shooting, to gold, to the myth of creationism, to police misconduct - and ALL you manage to see is homosexuality?

It seems to me that YOU are the one hyperfocused on it.

Methinks thou dost protest too much, Red.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:57:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#337. To: Rabble Rouser (#335)

Duh!

Rabble,

Well, you said you witnessed the same thing. Which shows that neither of you have a clue what goes on in nature.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:58:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#338. To: Feynman Lives! (#330)

you witnessed a cat that had been damaged acting out.

I think you said a bigger mouthful than you realized.

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   21:58:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#339. To: Feynman Lives! (#337)

Which shows that neither of you have a clue what goes on in nature.

You have the Big Book of Fag Science. I have 20-some-odd cats, most tamed from feral. One of us has a clue what goes on.

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   21:59:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#340. To: Rabble Rouser (#339)

You have the Big Book of Fag Science

I have the ability to read and comprehend, Rabble. You have an overcrowding situation which brings out unnatural behavior in any animal.

nice try, thanks for playing.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:01:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#341. To: Feynman Lives! (#340)

I have the ability to read and comprehend, Rabble.

We can all read your posts, we can all comprehend that you are yet another gay propagandist, a Socrates wannabe. Incidentally, the raper kitties weren't from around here, and they aren't around here any more.

Male cats(all the cats) around here are very affectionate and do mutual grooming, especially among siblings. I have never seen two males do anything sexual with eachother. No humping or anything oral. The closest I have ever seen to homosexuality was when two she-cats went into labor at the same time, and they licked eachother's placenta. It was a distinctly 69-ish situation, but it was clear that what was going on wasn't sex...unless, of course, there had been a gay scholar in the room to say, "Uh-huh, ya see? Lesbian cats! Just goes to show ya."

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   22:13:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#342. To: Rabble Rouser (#341)

the raper kitties

Sounds like a band name.

Other than that, your post is pointless.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:17:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#343. To: Feynman Lives! (#342)

Other than that, your post is pointless.

I thought you said you could comprehend! The points were:

1) You area gay propagandist.

2) Empiricism validates the common intuition regarding sexual behavior, contrary to the expressed beliefs of many who would call themselves "educated".

Incidentally, I have also seen exactly zero first-generation incest(siblings or parents).

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   22:25:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#344. To: Rabble Rouser (#343)

Rabble,

I did read and comprehend your statement.

As such, I stand by mine.

Your commmentary was pointless.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:27:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#345. To: Feynman Lives! (#344)

If that's the best you can do, then I consider the evening a success. Goodnight :)

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   22:30:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#346. To: Rabble Rouser (#345)

Rabble,

Well, considering that you had nothing other than very subjective and unsubstantiated statements coupled with name-calling to offer, I am sure that you did the best that YOU could do.

Which, in and of itself, is kinda sad.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:38:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#347. To: Dakmar, all (#180)

I know, but are they horses or donkeys? Maybe a genetic dead-end reached when two creatures sharing a common ancestor combine DNA?

I hesitate to jump back into this fray as it can be so consuming, but you folks have raised another issue that tends to work against evolution. Consider what happens when a significant mutation occurs - what happens to that creature? Does it mate with others that are "normal"? Or does it die because most mutations in fact are probably not advantageous? Do the others kill it because it's different? Or is it unable to breed because it is a genetic dead end?

If the mutation were significant enough to qualify the resulting creature as a different species, or the progenitor of a different species, I wonder if creatures could be found to mate with it, or enough creatures with the same mutation would exist to carry this gene forward to create a new species. What I see, and what I think common sense actually demonstrates to us, is that aside from genetic dead ends and superficial changes of size or color or ear/nose/eye shape - a monkey is still a monkey. A dog is still a dog. A fly is still a fly. A plant is still a plant. This is still true after seeing fossil records of these creatures sometimes millions of years old. I think there are semantic arguments being presented here that equate the concept of evaluation with the simple word...change. They are two different things.

Again - the bottom line to me about evolution is the following:

We don't know in a scientific, factual way how life originated or developed on earth. We can make guesses, but that's all. Our guesses may be found to be wrong with the passage of time and more data.

Religious dogma is totally an area of faith. By its nature, it cannot be proven. It must be taken on faith. However, science cannot be allowed to have any dogmas. Science must be based on fact and fact alone - not on "beliefs". Evolution is a belief.

I believe evolution serves as a creation myth - an explanation of where and how everything came into being - for atheists. I don't object to that. I think it has its limits as it still does not explain the ultimate source of everything, but that's their problem.. What I do object to is their BELIEF being enshrined as scientific fact that the rest of us must accept. I think this is particularly pernicious because it stops intellectual thought and debate with a dogma. There IS NO place for dogma in science.

Ya know, maybe we were all seeded from some ancient race of Martians who just developed everything in gigantic genetic factories. Maybe many, if not most species on this planet actually WERE specifically created - by an intermediary source, if not by a God. Just as we will be capable of doing in a couple of generations, if not sooner. Maybe we will design our own completely new species and then the fun really starts.

The correct answer to the evolution debate is....WE DON'T KNOW. and that's fine.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-13   22:44:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#348. To: mehitable (#347)

Science must be based on fact and fact alone - not on "beliefs". Evolution is a belief.

If this were the basis for science, then NOTHING would be learned that was not ALREADY known.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:48:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#349. To: mehitable (#347)

Consider what happens when a significant mutation occurs - what happens to that creature?

Mehitable,

Again, you STILL fail to grasp the concept of evolution.

EVOLUTION occurs across a POPULATION, not an INDIVIDUAL.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:50:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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