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Science/Tech
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Title: Creationists: can they be scientists? You bet!
Source: Answers In Genesis
URL Source: http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/wow/preview/part9.asp
Published: Feb 11, 2006
Author: Pam S. Sheppard
Post Date: 2006-02-11 17:02:42 by A K A Stone
Keywords: Creationists:, scientists?, they
Views: 2000
Comments: 382

As an astrophysicist, Dr. Jason Lisle (author of chapters 5, 6, and 10 of War of the Worldviews) knows that a belief in molecules-to-man evolution is not needed to understand how planets orbit the sun or how telescopes operate. While some evolutionists are spreading the false idea that creationists can’t be real scientists, Lisle is busy doing real science.

In fact, he (along with hundreds of other scientists) knows that science works perfectly well without any connection to evolution. Dr. David Menton, cell biologist and popular AiG speaker and writer, has often said that although it is widely believed, “evolution contributes nothing to our understanding of empirical science and thus plays no essential role in biomedical research or education.”

As Lisle points out in this chapter, even the rise of technology is not due to a belief in evolution. He writes, “Computers, cellular phones and DVD players all operate based on the laws of physics, which God created. It is because God created a logical, orderly universe and gave us the ability to reason and to be creative that technology is possible.”

So, why are there such differences between evolutionary scientists and creation scientists if both groups have the same evidence? Lisle addresses these differing conclusions by explaining that each group starts with different assumptions when interpreting evidence. Creationists and evolutionists have a different view of history, but the way they do science in the present is the same.

Lisle writes that both creationists and evolutionists use observation and experimentation to draw conclusions about nature. Since observational scientific theories are capable of being tested in the present, creationists and evolutionists generally agree on these models. For instance, they agree on the nature of gravity, the composition of stars, the speed of light in a vacuum, the size of the solar system, etc.

On the other hand, historical events cannot be checked scientifically in the present. We don’t have access to the past. As Lisle points out, we can make educated guesses about the past and can make inferences from fossils and rocks, but we cannot directly test our conclusions because past events cannot be repeated.

With evolutionists and creationists having such different views of history, is it any wonder that each group arrives at such varying interpretations? Biblical creationists accept the recorded history of the Bible as their starting point while evolutionists reject this recorded history and have made up their own pseudo-history from which to interpret evidence, Lisle explains.

The fact that there are scientists who believe in biblical creation is nothing new. In this chapter, Lisle discusses several “real” scientists who believe in the Genesis account of creation, including Isaac Newton (1642–1727), who co-discovered calculus, formulated the laws of motion and gravity, and computed the nature of planetary orbits, among other things.

Today, there are many Ph.D. scientists who reject evolution and believe that God created in six days, a few thousand years ago, as recorded in Scripture. As Lisle points out, his Ph.D. research (which was completed at a secular university) was not hindered by the conviction that the early chapters of Genesis are literally true. In fact, it’s just the reverse, he writes.

“It is because a logical God created and ordered the universe that I, and other creationists, expect to be able to understand aspects of that universe through logic, careful observation and experimentation,” Lisle explains.

Lisle concludes the chapter by posing the question, “Why should there be laws of nature if there is no lawgiver?”

“If our minds have been designed, and if the universe has been constructed by God, as the Bible teaches, then of course we should be able to study nature. Science is possible because the Bible is true,” says Lisle.

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#329. To: robin (#304)

Yes, cheney is from Wyoming.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-02-13   21:45:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#330. To: Red Jones (#327)

I saw an adult cat try to have sex with a kitten. that's pedophilia. You don't know what you're talking about

in black africa they don't even know what homosexuality is, until very recent times it didn't exist over there. the same is true for other cultures of people around the world as well.

Red

There are only three types of mammal that have sex for pleasure, and cats are not among them. Pedophelia does not exist amongst species that do not have sex for pleasure. So, you either mistook what you saw for pedophilia, or you witnessed a cat that had been damaged acting out. Either way, it was not indicative of what exists in the species.

Your statement about homosexuality in africa is just laughable! You are either just making this up, or you are clearly ignorant of history.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:49:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#331. To: BTP Holdings (#326)

To: Trace21231

Be sure to read them before jumping to a snap conclusion. You can waste your time on this, not me.

Trace...

Don't try to cloud BTP's mind with facts, it just makes him grumpy.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:50:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#332. To: tom007 (#323)

I am going to Africa to apply for a nice missionary position with the natives.

Maybe you can take Jesse Jackson with you. I hear they are looking for a new king of the Zulu.

Oh, and send me back a good Afrikaaner woman while you're there. ;0)

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-13   21:51:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#333. To: BTP Holdings, Feynman Lives! (#316)

Only a flaming faggot would say something like this.

Feynman has demonstrated a very strong affinity to homosexuality because on thread after thread after thread he loves that subject. either he's gay or he very much wants the people on this site to be focused on that issue.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-02-13   21:52:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#334. To: BTP Holdings (#332)

Oh, and send me back a good Afrikaaner woman while you're there. ;0)

Hope you like possum stew, she's the best possum cook around.

tom007  posted on  2006-02-13   21:55:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#335. To: Feynman Lives! (#330)

you witnessed a cat that had been damaged acting out.

Duh!

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   21:56:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#336. To: Red Jones (#333)

Feynman has demonstrated a very strong affinity to homosexuality because on thread after thread after thread he loves that subject. either he's gay or he very much wants the people on this site to be focused on that issue.

Red,

WOW, what an incredibly uneducated thing to say.

I have commented on a couple dozen threads, from Cheney's shooting, to gold, to the myth of creationism, to police misconduct - and ALL you manage to see is homosexuality?

It seems to me that YOU are the one hyperfocused on it.

Methinks thou dost protest too much, Red.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:57:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#337. To: Rabble Rouser (#335)

Duh!

Rabble,

Well, you said you witnessed the same thing. Which shows that neither of you have a clue what goes on in nature.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:58:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#338. To: Feynman Lives! (#330)

you witnessed a cat that had been damaged acting out.

I think you said a bigger mouthful than you realized.

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   21:58:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#339. To: Feynman Lives! (#337)

Which shows that neither of you have a clue what goes on in nature.

You have the Big Book of Fag Science. I have 20-some-odd cats, most tamed from feral. One of us has a clue what goes on.

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   21:59:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#340. To: Rabble Rouser (#339)

You have the Big Book of Fag Science

I have the ability to read and comprehend, Rabble. You have an overcrowding situation which brings out unnatural behavior in any animal.

nice try, thanks for playing.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:01:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#341. To: Feynman Lives! (#340)

I have the ability to read and comprehend, Rabble.

We can all read your posts, we can all comprehend that you are yet another gay propagandist, a Socrates wannabe. Incidentally, the raper kitties weren't from around here, and they aren't around here any more.

Male cats(all the cats) around here are very affectionate and do mutual grooming, especially among siblings. I have never seen two males do anything sexual with eachother. No humping or anything oral. The closest I have ever seen to homosexuality was when two she-cats went into labor at the same time, and they licked eachother's placenta. It was a distinctly 69-ish situation, but it was clear that what was going on wasn't sex...unless, of course, there had been a gay scholar in the room to say, "Uh-huh, ya see? Lesbian cats! Just goes to show ya."

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   22:13:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#342. To: Rabble Rouser (#341)

the raper kitties

Sounds like a band name.

Other than that, your post is pointless.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:17:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#343. To: Feynman Lives! (#342)

Other than that, your post is pointless.

I thought you said you could comprehend! The points were:

1) You area gay propagandist.

2) Empiricism validates the common intuition regarding sexual behavior, contrary to the expressed beliefs of many who would call themselves "educated".

Incidentally, I have also seen exactly zero first-generation incest(siblings or parents).

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   22:25:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#344. To: Rabble Rouser (#343)

Rabble,

I did read and comprehend your statement.

As such, I stand by mine.

Your commmentary was pointless.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:27:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#345. To: Feynman Lives! (#344)

If that's the best you can do, then I consider the evening a success. Goodnight :)

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   22:30:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#346. To: Rabble Rouser (#345)

Rabble,

Well, considering that you had nothing other than very subjective and unsubstantiated statements coupled with name-calling to offer, I am sure that you did the best that YOU could do.

Which, in and of itself, is kinda sad.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:38:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#347. To: Dakmar, all (#180)

I know, but are they horses or donkeys? Maybe a genetic dead-end reached when two creatures sharing a common ancestor combine DNA?

I hesitate to jump back into this fray as it can be so consuming, but you folks have raised another issue that tends to work against evolution. Consider what happens when a significant mutation occurs - what happens to that creature? Does it mate with others that are "normal"? Or does it die because most mutations in fact are probably not advantageous? Do the others kill it because it's different? Or is it unable to breed because it is a genetic dead end?

If the mutation were significant enough to qualify the resulting creature as a different species, or the progenitor of a different species, I wonder if creatures could be found to mate with it, or enough creatures with the same mutation would exist to carry this gene forward to create a new species. What I see, and what I think common sense actually demonstrates to us, is that aside from genetic dead ends and superficial changes of size or color or ear/nose/eye shape - a monkey is still a monkey. A dog is still a dog. A fly is still a fly. A plant is still a plant. This is still true after seeing fossil records of these creatures sometimes millions of years old. I think there are semantic arguments being presented here that equate the concept of evaluation with the simple word...change. They are two different things.

Again - the bottom line to me about evolution is the following:

We don't know in a scientific, factual way how life originated or developed on earth. We can make guesses, but that's all. Our guesses may be found to be wrong with the passage of time and more data.

Religious dogma is totally an area of faith. By its nature, it cannot be proven. It must be taken on faith. However, science cannot be allowed to have any dogmas. Science must be based on fact and fact alone - not on "beliefs". Evolution is a belief.

I believe evolution serves as a creation myth - an explanation of where and how everything came into being - for atheists. I don't object to that. I think it has its limits as it still does not explain the ultimate source of everything, but that's their problem.. What I do object to is their BELIEF being enshrined as scientific fact that the rest of us must accept. I think this is particularly pernicious because it stops intellectual thought and debate with a dogma. There IS NO place for dogma in science.

Ya know, maybe we were all seeded from some ancient race of Martians who just developed everything in gigantic genetic factories. Maybe many, if not most species on this planet actually WERE specifically created - by an intermediary source, if not by a God. Just as we will be capable of doing in a couple of generations, if not sooner. Maybe we will design our own completely new species and then the fun really starts.

The correct answer to the evolution debate is....WE DON'T KNOW. and that's fine.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-13   22:44:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#348. To: mehitable (#347)

Science must be based on fact and fact alone - not on "beliefs". Evolution is a belief.

If this were the basis for science, then NOTHING would be learned that was not ALREADY known.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:48:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#349. To: mehitable (#347)

Consider what happens when a significant mutation occurs - what happens to that creature?

Mehitable,

Again, you STILL fail to grasp the concept of evolution.

EVOLUTION occurs across a POPULATION, not an INDIVIDUAL.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:50:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#350. To: Feynman Lives! (#349)

You never did address this:

People ARE animals, Zip.

Also, humans are not the only species to have sex for fun.

****************

Then their 'homosexual' behavior can't be compared to human sexual behavior.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-13   22:55:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#351. To: mehitable (#347)

A dog is still a dog

Yes, and we have genetic PROOF that dogs descended from wolves.

They EVOLVED into dogs.

One species EVOLVED into a completely different species.

This is an INDISPUTABLE FACT, Mehitable, not a dogma.

Whether or not YOU want to accept that fact is immaterial, it still remains a FACT, not a belief.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:55:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#352. To: Zipporah (#350)

Then their 'homosexual' behavior can't be compared to human sexual behavior.

Zip,

Humans are animals, like other primates and dolphins, all of whom openly practice homosexuality.

They are all animals that have sex for fun, and they are all animals who openly and commonly engage in homosexuality as far back as documentation allows.

The behavior is the same.

Homosexuality is completely natural.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:57:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#353. To: Zipporah, all (#262)

Has nothing to do with my social beliefs.. it was catagorized as deviant behavior til the 70s by psychiatrists .. and the decision to change it was not based on science but on political pressure.

This change in the psychiatric standards is an example of scientific dogma in action - however now the dogma is that being gay is normal and natural and fine, etc. But is it? Of course not. It serves no useful adaptive purpose so why would it exist genetically? But even more damning than that, if homosexuality were strictly a natural, "normal" occurence, the incidence of it would be the same throughout human communities in the world now and throughout time, and that is not true. Some societies have very little homosexuality and some have a great deal of it. This variation in the amount of homosexuality throughout societies and histories alone tells us that homosexuality is a product, not simply of nature, but of other social and psychological factors.

Personally, the gay men I have met (and I've known several) come from backgrounds with remarkably similar experiences. I have never met one with a good early experience with his father. They had negative fathers, absent fathers or weak fathers and these men were dominated (in a good or bad way) by their mothers as children. In addition, many of them - actually most of them, now that I consider it, were sexually abused as children. As this kind of behavior - weak, absent fathers, strong domineering mothers, sexualization of children - becomes more common in a society, I would expect the incidence of homosexuality to increase. Thus homosexuality is a type of developmental disorder.

Unfortunately, our society has largely lost touch with actual reality and facts in our desperate pursuit of ideological ideals, so we no longer actually examine whether most homosexuals have these underlying childhood themes to a greater extent than heterosexuals do. Of course, there will be some children who will be exposed to the same problems but will not become gay - perhaps they will have emotional rather than sexual problems in dealing with the opposite sex.

There is also a small (in percentages) group of people who have chromosomal problems and may have difficult identifying as male or female and may have feelings of being transgendered. Completely different situation and one which may have a true biological rather than psycho-social basis.

Now why is this important? Personally I don't care if people are gay. I think it's a flaw or quirk like being an alcoholic or gambler or having some other maladaption that many of us have. I do think that society's views of this matters though as I believe we MUST revert back to basing our opinions on actual reality rather than achieving ideological ideals. If we keep re-designing our society in attempts to achieve these actuallly unachievable ideals, we will actually lose western civilization. We are nearly there now as people continue to deny reality - socially, biologically, politically, economically, demographically. It is an epidemic amongst us. It matters how we view these things. It also matters because if we views these as real problems - we might be able to treat them rather than normalizing the abnormal.

Sorry for the length of this, but I feel strongly about the general lack of reality in our societal reasoning and planning and I think it's destroying us on a variety of levels. The changing view of homosexuality is only one of them.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-13   23:06:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#354. To: Feynman Lives! (#352)

Humans are animals, like other primates and dolphins, all of whom openly practice homosexuality.

They are all animals that have sex for fun, and they are all animals who openly and commonly engage in homosexuality as far back as documentation allows.

The behavior is the same.

Homosexuality is completely natural.

So now you're changing your former statements.. I see.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-13   23:10:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#355. To: mehitable (#353)

Now why is this important? Personally I don't care if people are gay. I think it's a flaw or quirk like being an alcoholic or gambler or having some other maladaption that many of us have. I do think that society's views of this matters though as I believe we MUST revert back to basing our opinions on actual reality rather than achieving ideological ideals. If we keep re-designing our society in attempts to achieve these actuallly unachievable ideals, we will actually lose western civilization. We are nearly there now as people continue to deny reality - socially, biologically, politically, economically, demographically. It is an epidemic amongst us. It matters how we view these things. It also matters because if we views these as real problems - we might be able to treat them rather than normalizing the abnormal.

Sorry for the length of this, but I feel strongly about the general lack of reality in our societal reasoning and planning and I think it's destroying us on a variety of levels. The changing view of homosexuality is only one of them.

I absolutely agree..

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-13   23:11:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#356. To: Red Jones, all (#327)

The US has a higher portion of its population pursueing the 'gay' lifestyle because it is a cultural phenomenon.

Once again, Red, you're absolutely on the money. You say with spare eloquence what I try to say with torrents.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-13   23:12:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#357. To: mehitable (#353)

I have never met one with a good early experience with his father. I think it's a flaw or quirk like being an alcoholic or gambler or having some other maladaption that many of us have.

Mehitable,

It does not surprise me that A: you have a limited circle of friends, B: that people in your circle are somewhat reluctant to be truthful with you, and C: that you have an unfounded and widely reactionary position on the subject.

Homosexuality is not a disease nor a maladaptation. It occurs across nearly all mammallian species and exists inside of hetrosexual partnerships as well.

I get that you feel strongly about this topic, and you REALLY hit the nail on the head when you said that you have a LACK OF REALITY.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   23:14:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#358. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#330)

There are only three types of mammal that have sex for pleasure, and cats are not among them.

Guess you don't know much about cats. My male cat used to try to hump my arm every chance he got. And that was AFTER he was fixed. God only knows what he would have done before hand.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-13   23:14:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#359. To: mehitable (#356)

To: Red Jones, all

The US has a higher portion of its population pursueing the 'gay' lifestyle because it is a cultural phenomenon. Once again, Red, you're absolutely on the money. You say with spare eloquence what I try to say with torrents.

Please show me your statistical data to back up this COMPLETELY unsubstantiated claim.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   23:15:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#360. To: Rabble Rouser (#339)

You have the Big Book of Fag Science.

ROFLMAO!!!!! I'd love to see the illustrations in that one.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-13   23:17:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#361. To: mehitable (#358)

Guess you don't know much about cats. My male cat used to try to hump my arm every chance he got. And that was AFTER he was fixed. God only knows what he would have done before hand.

Mehitable,

You do not understand the purpose of humping in species like cats and dogs. It is not a sexual issue, it is an issue of dominance.

And you were so close to figuring it out because you knew this was STILL occurring AFTER he was fixed, which SHOWS you that it was NOT a sexual action that you were witnessing.

Once again, you see the truth, but you close your eyes.

Only Humans, dolphins and primates have sex for pleasure (note: the SMARTEST species) No other animals do. NONE.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   23:17:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#362. To: Zipporah (#354)

So now you're changing your former statements.. I see.

how did my statement change?

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   23:18:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#363. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#348)

If this were the basis for science, then NOTHING would be learned that was not ALREADY known.

You are saying that the basis for science should not be facts?

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-13   23:19:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#364. To: mehitable (#363)

You are saying that the basis for science should not be facts?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

The basis for science should not be facts.

The basis for science should be the relentless pursuit of the truth.

FACTS come out of that pursuit, NOT the other way around.

Yours is a typical response from the imaginary friend crowd. You are SO willing to believe in your imaginary friend with NO factual evidence, but you try to force science, that belives in TESTING theories, to abandon theory and rely only on fact.

You can't have facts unless you pursue them. Otherwise, how would you know it was a fact? You have to have a theory first, and then prove or disprove it.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   23:24:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#365. To: Feynman Lives!, Zipporah, Red Jones (#352)

Homosexuality is completely natural.

Just as natural as polygamy; incest; beastiality; necrophilia; and not to mention schitzophrenia; manic-depression; paranoid delusions; ... yes, completely natural.

Communist/Zionist Goals #23 and #24. Thank you federal media and Hollywood for making those possible.

In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.

wbales  posted on  2006-02-13   23:27:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#366. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#351)

Obviously it doesn't matter whether dogs and wolves are related to each other or one came from the other. That's not what evolution is actually about. What evolution is actually about is the progression from very small, low order animals through some alleged mutation process to develop into progressively more advanced animals. It's about where the wolf came from, and the ancestor of that creature, and the ancestor of THAT creature, and back into the mists of time. It's about whether evolution is an on-going process, as indeed it does not appear to be to any meaningful extent. You may prate on about dogs and wolves, but we can see that dogs and wolves are far more closely related to each other than dogs and spiders. We might even say a dog is a type of wolf as I think they can interbreed. But what is the connection of a wolf or dog to a spider? What have spiders progressed into - what will they turn into? Nothing? Are they to remain a recognizable species as indeed they have for countless millions of years? Where does evolution take the spider? Is there any kind of logic or process or methodology to this evolution??? You don't know. Neither do I.

I think the bottom line here is that this is your atheistic creation myth. That's why you defend it so ardently. It allows you to explain existence without a God. Until you have to explain what created that very first spark of life from which everything else "evolved".

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-13   23:27:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#367. To: Red Jones (#333)

either he's gay or he very much wants the people on this site to be focused on that issue.

He is a steam powered spambot who is here solely to disrupt the entire forum.

Don't feed the trolls. ;0)

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-13   23:29:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#368. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#357)

Alright, you odious, arrogant, sniping, little toad. I'm pulling out the guns. I actually have a wide circle of friends and have several gay male friends and have worked in businesses, because of my interests, that included large numbers of gay men. These men had no reason to lie to me, and indeed, when they were not talking to me personally, I would overhear their stories anyway. I am reporting what I have been TOLD and what I have HEARD. This is called R E A L I T Y, as opposed to the sniveling cranial drip you are oozing onto the website. I will not tolerate you calling me a liar.

You have made far too many assumptions about me, you annoying little guttersnipe and I think my conversations with you are at an end.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-13   23:33:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#369. To: mehitable (#366)

Obviously it doesn't matter whether dogs and wolves are related to each other or one came from the other. That's not what evolution is actually about.

Mehitable,

This is EXACTLY what evolution is all about, and YOU try to ignore it.

It shows CLEARLY that evolution IS an on-going process, and it shows the path of that progress as it regresses in time.

It shows a VERY meaningful evolution from large feral wolves to domesticatable animals, and a dramatic change that forced the categorization of a completely new species.

Dogs are MAMMALS, Spiders are INSECTS, mehitable, they are not closely related at all. Spiders HAVE indeed evolved over time, but not into mammals. Your ignorance of the world around you is quite impressive, Mehitable. Look at the common beetle... there are now over 350,000 DIFFERENT SPECIES of beetles. Just of beetles.

You probably were unaware that we share 98% of the same genetic material with ALL primates, and even you have to see that THAT is a pretty STRONG correlation.

As for your question: "Is there any kind of logic or process or methodology to this evolution??? You don't know. Neither do I."

I actually DO know. There is no logical process or methodology to evolution. Genetic mutations take place, and those that suit the furtherance of the propogation of the species are carried on to the next generation, there is no "grand design" at work in the background, just adaptation of the species.

When you make such glaringly ignorant statements like: "What evolution is actually about is the progression from very small, low order animals through some alleged mutation process to develop into progressively more advanced animals" you show that you really have NO concept of what evolution is, even though it has been explained to you clearly a half a dozen times on this thread alone.

Remember, Mehitable, it is better to be THOUGHT a fool than to open your mouth and prove it. You have opened your mouth far too many times and proved yourself a fool on this topic time and time again.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   23:37:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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