[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help] 

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

The free world’s most potent weapons against China have been crippled

The free world’s most potent weapons against China have been crippled

GOD BLESS THE USA - TRUMP MUSIC VIDEO

Landmark flight: US tanker refuels Russian jets in Malaysia

AIex Jones Studio Seized! lnfowars Website Pulled From Internet! But He's NOT Going Away!

Gutfeld: This was Kamala's Achilles' heel

BREAKING! DEEP STATE SWAMP RATS TRYING TO SABOTAGE TRUMP FROM THE INSIDE | Redacted w Clayton Morris [Livestream in progress]

The Media Flips Over Tulsi & Matt Gaetz, Biden & Trump Take A Pic, & Famous People Leave Twitter!

4 arrested in California car insurance scam: 'Clearly a human in a bear suit'

Silk Road Founder Trusts Trump To 'Honor His Pledge' For Commutation

"You DESERVED to LOSE the Senate, the House, and the Presidency!" - Jordan Peterson

"Grand Political Theatre"; FBI Raids Home Of Polymarket CEO; Seize Phone, Electronics

Schoolhouse Limbo: How Low Will Educators Go To Better Grades?

BREAKING: U.S. Army Officers Made a Desperate Attempt To Break Out of The Encirclement in KURSK

Trumps team drawing up list of Pentagon officers to fire, sources say

Israeli Military Planning To Stay in Gaza Through 2025

Hezbollah attacks Israeli army's Tel Aviv HQ twice in one day

People Can't Stop Talking About Elon's Secret Plan For MSNBC And CNN Is Totally Panicking

Tucker Carlson UNLOADS on Diddy, Kamala, Walz, Kimmel, Rich Girls, Conspiracy Theories, and the CIA!

"We have UFO technology that enables FREE ENERGY" Govt. Whistleblowers

They arrested this woman because her son did WHAT?

Parody Ad Features Company That Offers to Cryogenically Freeze Liberals for Duration of TrumpÂ’s Presidency

Elon and Vivek BEGIN Reforming Government, Media LOSES IT

Dear Border Czar: This Nonprofit Boasts A List Of 400 Companies That Employ Migrants

US Deficit Explodes: Blowout October Deficit Means 2nd Worst Start To US Fiscal Year On Record

Gaetz Resigns 'Effective Immediately' After Trump AG Pick; DC In Full Blown Panic

MAHA MEME

noone2222 and John Bolton sitting in a tree K I S S I N G

Donald Trump To Help Construct The Third Temple?

"The Elites Want To ROB Us of Our SOVEREIGNTY!" | Robert F Kennedy


Science/Tech
See other Science/Tech Articles

Title: Creationists: can they be scientists? You bet!
Source: Answers In Genesis
URL Source: http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/wow/preview/part9.asp
Published: Feb 11, 2006
Author: Pam S. Sheppard
Post Date: 2006-02-11 17:02:42 by A K A Stone
Keywords: Creationists:, scientists?, they
Views: 2296
Comments: 382

As an astrophysicist, Dr. Jason Lisle (author of chapters 5, 6, and 10 of War of the Worldviews) knows that a belief in molecules-to-man evolution is not needed to understand how planets orbit the sun or how telescopes operate. While some evolutionists are spreading the false idea that creationists can’t be real scientists, Lisle is busy doing real science.

In fact, he (along with hundreds of other scientists) knows that science works perfectly well without any connection to evolution. Dr. David Menton, cell biologist and popular AiG speaker and writer, has often said that although it is widely believed, “evolution contributes nothing to our understanding of empirical science and thus plays no essential role in biomedical research or education.”

As Lisle points out in this chapter, even the rise of technology is not due to a belief in evolution. He writes, “Computers, cellular phones and DVD players all operate based on the laws of physics, which God created. It is because God created a logical, orderly universe and gave us the ability to reason and to be creative that technology is possible.”

So, why are there such differences between evolutionary scientists and creation scientists if both groups have the same evidence? Lisle addresses these differing conclusions by explaining that each group starts with different assumptions when interpreting evidence. Creationists and evolutionists have a different view of history, but the way they do science in the present is the same.

Lisle writes that both creationists and evolutionists use observation and experimentation to draw conclusions about nature. Since observational scientific theories are capable of being tested in the present, creationists and evolutionists generally agree on these models. For instance, they agree on the nature of gravity, the composition of stars, the speed of light in a vacuum, the size of the solar system, etc.

On the other hand, historical events cannot be checked scientifically in the present. We don’t have access to the past. As Lisle points out, we can make educated guesses about the past and can make inferences from fossils and rocks, but we cannot directly test our conclusions because past events cannot be repeated.

With evolutionists and creationists having such different views of history, is it any wonder that each group arrives at such varying interpretations? Biblical creationists accept the recorded history of the Bible as their starting point while evolutionists reject this recorded history and have made up their own pseudo-history from which to interpret evidence, Lisle explains.

The fact that there are scientists who believe in biblical creation is nothing new. In this chapter, Lisle discusses several “real” scientists who believe in the Genesis account of creation, including Isaac Newton (1642–1727), who co-discovered calculus, formulated the laws of motion and gravity, and computed the nature of planetary orbits, among other things.

Today, there are many Ph.D. scientists who reject evolution and believe that God created in six days, a few thousand years ago, as recorded in Scripture. As Lisle points out, his Ph.D. research (which was completed at a secular university) was not hindered by the conviction that the early chapters of Genesis are literally true. In fact, it’s just the reverse, he writes.

“It is because a logical God created and ordered the universe that I, and other creationists, expect to be able to understand aspects of that universe through logic, careful observation and experimentation,” Lisle explains.

Lisle concludes the chapter by posing the question, “Why should there be laws of nature if there is no lawgiver?”

“If our minds have been designed, and if the universe has been constructed by God, as the Bible teaches, then of course we should be able to study nature. Science is possible because the Bible is true,” says Lisle.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Comments (1-316) not displayed.
      .
      .
      .

#317. To: Feynman Lives! (#315)

Pedophelia, and your other sexual behaviors are radically different from homosexuality.

They don't exist across all mammalian species, homosexuality does.

Nice try, and I see where you are coming from, but it just does not fly.

Oh really prove it.. how they dont cross mammlian species.. People are not the same as animals I might add..

And as I said before.. homosexuality in animals basically has to do with dominance.. not the same in humans now is it?

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-13   21:27:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#318. To: BTP Holdings (#316)

Only a flaming faggot would say something like this.

Only a bigoted, narrow minded, uneducated homophobe would say something like this.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:28:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#319. To: Zipporah (#317)

People are not the same as animals

People ARE animals, Zip.

Also, humans are not the only species to have sex for fun.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:29:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#320. To: Feynman Lives! (#305)

Didn't he come from the future?

Figures. I hate those fuckers.

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   21:31:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#321. To: Feynman Lives! (#319)

People ARE animals, Zip.

Also, humans are not the only species to have sex for fun.

Then their 'homosexual' behavior can't be compared to human sexual behavior.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-13   21:32:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#322. To: BTP Holdings (#316)

homosexuality is completely natural

Only a flaming faggot would say something like this.

Well, he's advanced some pretty good arguments for this position. Be sure to read them before jumping to a snap conclusion.

Trace21231  posted on  2006-02-13   21:33:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#323. To: Trace21231, BTP Holdings (#322)

Well, he's advanced some pretty good arguments for this position.

I am going to Africa to apply for a nice missionary position with the natives.

tom007  posted on  2006-02-13   21:36:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#324. To: Feynman Lives! (#315)

Pedophelia, and your other sexual behaviors are radically different from homosexuality.

They don't exist across all mammalian species,...

I have seen cats that rape, and even kill kittens. All the other cats hate those creepy, evil baby-raper kitties. Decent toms will kill a cat like that.

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   21:37:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#325. To: Feynman Lives!, BTP (#318)

uneducated

Let F-man learn ya right, BTP.

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   21:39:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#326. To: Trace21231 (#322)

Be sure to read them before jumping to a snap conclusion.

You can waste your time on this, not me.

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-13   21:40:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#327. To: Feynman Lives! (#315)

Pedophelia, and your other sexual behaviors are radically different from homosexuality.

They don't exist across all mammalian species, homosexuality does.

I saw an adult cat try to have sex with a kitten. that's pedophilia. You don't know what you're talking about.

Homosexuality is a cultural phenomenon. that is why some cultures historically have it and some don't.

In japan 500 years ago the sammurai were mostly bi-sexual. They were not genetically different, they were culturally indoctrinated to be different.

in black africa they don't even know what homosexuality is, until very recent times it didn't exist over there. the same is true for other cultures of people around the world as well.

In greece 2500 years ago or so there was one of their city-states that encouraged homosexuality among the ruling elite. The men among that elite would have sex with boys until they were about 30 and then they'd get married. this was due to cultural indoctrination. and then in other greek city-states they had virtually no homosexuality. It is a cultural phenomenon.

The US has a higher portion of its population pursueing the 'gay' lifestyle because it is a cultural phenomenon.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-02-13   21:41:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#328. To: Rabble Rouser (#325)

uneducated

Let F-man learn ya right, BTP.

That'll be the day. ROTFLMAO!

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-13   21:44:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#329. To: robin (#304)

Yes, cheney is from Wyoming.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-02-13   21:45:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#330. To: Red Jones (#327)

I saw an adult cat try to have sex with a kitten. that's pedophilia. You don't know what you're talking about

in black africa they don't even know what homosexuality is, until very recent times it didn't exist over there. the same is true for other cultures of people around the world as well.

Red

There are only three types of mammal that have sex for pleasure, and cats are not among them. Pedophelia does not exist amongst species that do not have sex for pleasure. So, you either mistook what you saw for pedophilia, or you witnessed a cat that had been damaged acting out. Either way, it was not indicative of what exists in the species.

Your statement about homosexuality in africa is just laughable! You are either just making this up, or you are clearly ignorant of history.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:49:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#331. To: BTP Holdings (#326)

To: Trace21231

Be sure to read them before jumping to a snap conclusion. You can waste your time on this, not me.

Trace...

Don't try to cloud BTP's mind with facts, it just makes him grumpy.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:50:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#332. To: tom007 (#323)

I am going to Africa to apply for a nice missionary position with the natives.

Maybe you can take Jesse Jackson with you. I hear they are looking for a new king of the Zulu.

Oh, and send me back a good Afrikaaner woman while you're there. ;0)

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-13   21:51:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#333. To: BTP Holdings, Feynman Lives! (#316)

Only a flaming faggot would say something like this.

Feynman has demonstrated a very strong affinity to homosexuality because on thread after thread after thread he loves that subject. either he's gay or he very much wants the people on this site to be focused on that issue.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-02-13   21:52:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#334. To: BTP Holdings (#332)

Oh, and send me back a good Afrikaaner woman while you're there. ;0)

Hope you like possum stew, she's the best possum cook around.

tom007  posted on  2006-02-13   21:55:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#335. To: Feynman Lives! (#330)

you witnessed a cat that had been damaged acting out.

Duh!

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   21:56:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#336. To: Red Jones (#333)

Feynman has demonstrated a very strong affinity to homosexuality because on thread after thread after thread he loves that subject. either he's gay or he very much wants the people on this site to be focused on that issue.

Red,

WOW, what an incredibly uneducated thing to say.

I have commented on a couple dozen threads, from Cheney's shooting, to gold, to the myth of creationism, to police misconduct - and ALL you manage to see is homosexuality?

It seems to me that YOU are the one hyperfocused on it.

Methinks thou dost protest too much, Red.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:57:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#337. To: Rabble Rouser (#335)

Duh!

Rabble,

Well, you said you witnessed the same thing. Which shows that neither of you have a clue what goes on in nature.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   21:58:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#338. To: Feynman Lives! (#330)

you witnessed a cat that had been damaged acting out.

I think you said a bigger mouthful than you realized.

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   21:58:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#339. To: Feynman Lives! (#337)

Which shows that neither of you have a clue what goes on in nature.

You have the Big Book of Fag Science. I have 20-some-odd cats, most tamed from feral. One of us has a clue what goes on.

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   21:59:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#340. To: Rabble Rouser (#339)

You have the Big Book of Fag Science

I have the ability to read and comprehend, Rabble. You have an overcrowding situation which brings out unnatural behavior in any animal.

nice try, thanks for playing.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:01:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#341. To: Feynman Lives! (#340)

I have the ability to read and comprehend, Rabble.

We can all read your posts, we can all comprehend that you are yet another gay propagandist, a Socrates wannabe. Incidentally, the raper kitties weren't from around here, and they aren't around here any more.

Male cats(all the cats) around here are very affectionate and do mutual grooming, especially among siblings. I have never seen two males do anything sexual with eachother. No humping or anything oral. The closest I have ever seen to homosexuality was when two she-cats went into labor at the same time, and they licked eachother's placenta. It was a distinctly 69-ish situation, but it was clear that what was going on wasn't sex...unless, of course, there had been a gay scholar in the room to say, "Uh-huh, ya see? Lesbian cats! Just goes to show ya."

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   22:13:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#342. To: Rabble Rouser (#341)

the raper kitties

Sounds like a band name.

Other than that, your post is pointless.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:17:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#343. To: Feynman Lives! (#342)

Other than that, your post is pointless.

I thought you said you could comprehend! The points were:

1) You area gay propagandist.

2) Empiricism validates the common intuition regarding sexual behavior, contrary to the expressed beliefs of many who would call themselves "educated".

Incidentally, I have also seen exactly zero first-generation incest(siblings or parents).

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   22:25:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#344. To: Rabble Rouser (#343)

Rabble,

I did read and comprehend your statement.

As such, I stand by mine.

Your commmentary was pointless.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:27:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#345. To: Feynman Lives! (#344)

If that's the best you can do, then I consider the evening a success. Goodnight :)

Rabble Rouser  posted on  2006-02-13   22:30:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#346. To: Rabble Rouser (#345)

Rabble,

Well, considering that you had nothing other than very subjective and unsubstantiated statements coupled with name-calling to offer, I am sure that you did the best that YOU could do.

Which, in and of itself, is kinda sad.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:38:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#347. To: Dakmar, all (#180)

I know, but are they horses or donkeys? Maybe a genetic dead-end reached when two creatures sharing a common ancestor combine DNA?

I hesitate to jump back into this fray as it can be so consuming, but you folks have raised another issue that tends to work against evolution. Consider what happens when a significant mutation occurs - what happens to that creature? Does it mate with others that are "normal"? Or does it die because most mutations in fact are probably not advantageous? Do the others kill it because it's different? Or is it unable to breed because it is a genetic dead end?

If the mutation were significant enough to qualify the resulting creature as a different species, or the progenitor of a different species, I wonder if creatures could be found to mate with it, or enough creatures with the same mutation would exist to carry this gene forward to create a new species. What I see, and what I think common sense actually demonstrates to us, is that aside from genetic dead ends and superficial changes of size or color or ear/nose/eye shape - a monkey is still a monkey. A dog is still a dog. A fly is still a fly. A plant is still a plant. This is still true after seeing fossil records of these creatures sometimes millions of years old. I think there are semantic arguments being presented here that equate the concept of evaluation with the simple word...change. They are two different things.

Again - the bottom line to me about evolution is the following:

We don't know in a scientific, factual way how life originated or developed on earth. We can make guesses, but that's all. Our guesses may be found to be wrong with the passage of time and more data.

Religious dogma is totally an area of faith. By its nature, it cannot be proven. It must be taken on faith. However, science cannot be allowed to have any dogmas. Science must be based on fact and fact alone - not on "beliefs". Evolution is a belief.

I believe evolution serves as a creation myth - an explanation of where and how everything came into being - for atheists. I don't object to that. I think it has its limits as it still does not explain the ultimate source of everything, but that's their problem.. What I do object to is their BELIEF being enshrined as scientific fact that the rest of us must accept. I think this is particularly pernicious because it stops intellectual thought and debate with a dogma. There IS NO place for dogma in science.

Ya know, maybe we were all seeded from some ancient race of Martians who just developed everything in gigantic genetic factories. Maybe many, if not most species on this planet actually WERE specifically created - by an intermediary source, if not by a God. Just as we will be capable of doing in a couple of generations, if not sooner. Maybe we will design our own completely new species and then the fun really starts.

The correct answer to the evolution debate is....WE DON'T KNOW. and that's fine.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-13   22:44:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#348. To: mehitable (#347)

Science must be based on fact and fact alone - not on "beliefs". Evolution is a belief.

If this were the basis for science, then NOTHING would be learned that was not ALREADY known.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:48:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#349. To: mehitable (#347)

Consider what happens when a significant mutation occurs - what happens to that creature?

Mehitable,

Again, you STILL fail to grasp the concept of evolution.

EVOLUTION occurs across a POPULATION, not an INDIVIDUAL.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:50:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#350. To: Feynman Lives! (#349)

You never did address this:

People ARE animals, Zip.

Also, humans are not the only species to have sex for fun.

****************

Then their 'homosexual' behavior can't be compared to human sexual behavior.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-13   22:55:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#351. To: mehitable (#347)

A dog is still a dog

Yes, and we have genetic PROOF that dogs descended from wolves.

They EVOLVED into dogs.

One species EVOLVED into a completely different species.

This is an INDISPUTABLE FACT, Mehitable, not a dogma.

Whether or not YOU want to accept that fact is immaterial, it still remains a FACT, not a belief.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:55:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#352. To: Zipporah (#350)

Then their 'homosexual' behavior can't be compared to human sexual behavior.

Zip,

Humans are animals, like other primates and dolphins, all of whom openly practice homosexuality.

They are all animals that have sex for fun, and they are all animals who openly and commonly engage in homosexuality as far back as documentation allows.

The behavior is the same.

Homosexuality is completely natural.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-13   22:57:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#353. To: Zipporah, all (#262)

Has nothing to do with my social beliefs.. it was catagorized as deviant behavior til the 70s by psychiatrists .. and the decision to change it was not based on science but on political pressure.

This change in the psychiatric standards is an example of scientific dogma in action - however now the dogma is that being gay is normal and natural and fine, etc. But is it? Of course not. It serves no useful adaptive purpose so why would it exist genetically? But even more damning than that, if homosexuality were strictly a natural, "normal" occurence, the incidence of it would be the same throughout human communities in the world now and throughout time, and that is not true. Some societies have very little homosexuality and some have a great deal of it. This variation in the amount of homosexuality throughout societies and histories alone tells us that homosexuality is a product, not simply of nature, but of other social and psychological factors.

Personally, the gay men I have met (and I've known several) come from backgrounds with remarkably similar experiences. I have never met one with a good early experience with his father. They had negative fathers, absent fathers or weak fathers and these men were dominated (in a good or bad way) by their mothers as children. In addition, many of them - actually most of them, now that I consider it, were sexually abused as children. As this kind of behavior - weak, absent fathers, strong domineering mothers, sexualization of children - becomes more common in a society, I would expect the incidence of homosexuality to increase. Thus homosexuality is a type of developmental disorder.

Unfortunately, our society has largely lost touch with actual reality and facts in our desperate pursuit of ideological ideals, so we no longer actually examine whether most homosexuals have these underlying childhood themes to a greater extent than heterosexuals do. Of course, there will be some children who will be exposed to the same problems but will not become gay - perhaps they will have emotional rather than sexual problems in dealing with the opposite sex.

There is also a small (in percentages) group of people who have chromosomal problems and may have difficult identifying as male or female and may have feelings of being transgendered. Completely different situation and one which may have a true biological rather than psycho-social basis.

Now why is this important? Personally I don't care if people are gay. I think it's a flaw or quirk like being an alcoholic or gambler or having some other maladaption that many of us have. I do think that society's views of this matters though as I believe we MUST revert back to basing our opinions on actual reality rather than achieving ideological ideals. If we keep re-designing our society in attempts to achieve these actuallly unachievable ideals, we will actually lose western civilization. We are nearly there now as people continue to deny reality - socially, biologically, politically, economically, demographically. It is an epidemic amongst us. It matters how we view these things. It also matters because if we views these as real problems - we might be able to treat them rather than normalizing the abnormal.

Sorry for the length of this, but I feel strongly about the general lack of reality in our societal reasoning and planning and I think it's destroying us on a variety of levels. The changing view of homosexuality is only one of them.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-13   23:06:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#354. To: Feynman Lives! (#352)

Humans are animals, like other primates and dolphins, all of whom openly practice homosexuality.

They are all animals that have sex for fun, and they are all animals who openly and commonly engage in homosexuality as far back as documentation allows.

The behavior is the same.

Homosexuality is completely natural.

So now you're changing your former statements.. I see.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-13   23:10:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#355. To: mehitable (#353)

Now why is this important? Personally I don't care if people are gay. I think it's a flaw or quirk like being an alcoholic or gambler or having some other maladaption that many of us have. I do think that society's views of this matters though as I believe we MUST revert back to basing our opinions on actual reality rather than achieving ideological ideals. If we keep re-designing our society in attempts to achieve these actuallly unachievable ideals, we will actually lose western civilization. We are nearly there now as people continue to deny reality - socially, biologically, politically, economically, demographically. It is an epidemic amongst us. It matters how we view these things. It also matters because if we views these as real problems - we might be able to treat them rather than normalizing the abnormal.

Sorry for the length of this, but I feel strongly about the general lack of reality in our societal reasoning and planning and I think it's destroying us on a variety of levels. The changing view of homosexuality is only one of them.

I absolutely agree..

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-13   23:11:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#356. To: Red Jones, all (#327)

The US has a higher portion of its population pursueing the 'gay' lifestyle because it is a cultural phenomenon.

Once again, Red, you're absolutely on the money. You say with spare eloquence what I try to say with torrents.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-13   23:12:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



      .
      .
      .

Comments (357 - 382) not displayed.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest


[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help]