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Title: Masterful Spin at LP
Source:
LP and Captains Quarters
URL Source: http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=129152
Published: Feb 12, 2006
Author: Captains Quarters
Post Date: 2006-02-12 11:18:09 by avian virus
Keywords: Masterful, Spin
Views: 171
Comments: 32
As everyone knows, I am an aficionado of well executed spin and half truths.
I saw a masterful example this morning on LP at the following link:
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=129152
Note what the the article says:
Sometime in the early 1970s Carter spied on two Vietnamese - while they were overseas if my memory serves me correctly.
In 1977, the two men challenged the spying and Carter's actions were upheld for the specific case.
One year later, in 1978, Congress passed FISA to place standards and procedures on this sort of thing.
Bush ignored these standards and procedures.
The maxim that statute overrules precedent is ignored by the authors of the article. Completely ignored.
The article is written in a tortured, turgid style that leaves the casual reader with the impression that somewhere there has been a groundbreaking case that exonorates Bush.
There hasn't been.
Coldly calculated and deliberate propaganda at its finest.
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#1. To: avian virus (#0)
Good to see you again avian virus! Top 12 media myths and falsehoods on the Bush administration's spying scandal That's MYTH #4: 4: Clinton, Carter also authorized warrantless searches of U.S. citizens Another tactic conservatives have used to defend the Bush administration has been to claim that it is not unusual for a president to authorize secret surveillance of U.S. citizens without a court order, asserting that Democratic presidents have also done so. For example, on the December 21 edition of Fox News's Special Report, host Brit Hume claimed that former presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton issued executive orders "to perform wiretaps and searches of American citizens without a warrant." But as the ThinkProgress weblog noted on December 20, executive orders on the topic by Clinton and Carter were merely explaining the rules established by FISA, which do not allow for warrantless searches on "United States persons." Subsequent reports by NBC chief foreign affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell and The Washington Post also debunked the conservative talking point while noting that the claim was highlighted in the December 21 RNC press release. From ThinkProgress, which documented how internet gossip Matt Drudge selectively cited from the Clinton and Carter executive orders to falsely suggest they authorized secret surveillance of U.S. citizens without court-obtained warrants: What Drudge says: Clinton, February 9, 1995: "The Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order" What Clinton actually signed: Section 1. Pursuant to section 302(a)(1) [50 U.S.C. 1822(a)] of the [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance] Act, the Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order, to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year, if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that section. That section requires the Attorney General to certify is the search will not involve "the premises, information, material, or property of a United States person." That means U.S. citizens or anyone inside of the United States. The entire controversy about Bush's program is that, for the first time ever, allows warrantless surveillance of U.S. citizens and other people inside of the United States. Clinton's 1995 executive order did not authorize that. Drudge pulls the same trick with Carter. What Drudge says: Jimmy Carter Signed Executive Order on May 23, 1979: "Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order." What Carter's executive order actually says: 1-101. Pursuant to Section 102(a)(1) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1802(a)), the Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order, but only if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that Section. What the Attorney General has to certify under that section is that the surveillance will not contain "the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party." So again, no U.S. persons are involved. Mr Rumsfeld said the emergence of populist leaders through elections in Latin America was "worrisome".
I see the usual suspects are spinning this.. I wonder how long ago this article was received to use as propaganda? And how many IDs these people have in order to post to their own articles to utilize the Delphi Technique?
yep.. and look at the link I posted re the Delphi Technique and think about those on LP and FR for that matter who use this technique..
I met and had dinner with a friend of yours last night and we talked about you. Chris Emery. Really sharp guy. Phil Jayhan from http://letsroll911.com was also there. Great conversation! I think Phil is going to register here soon. I'm going to Jack Blood's get together with his forum pals and Phil will be there again. I'm going to try to get all these guys on 4 too. :P
I am intrigued by the Delphi Technique, and once one becomes aware of how it works; you can see it employed in a number of situations; from the workplace to the classroom to the political arena; used everywhere, by everybody. When you have a controversial topic scheduled at an upcoming town hall meeting, make sure you attend, Democrat or Republican. I can almost guarantee you'll see it employed.
not to mention in sales.. If you're not clued in.. you can easily be diverted by those using it.. it amazes me how people on forums can be so manipulated by the change agents..and they're not even aware..
Absolutely agree; once you know how it works, it is absolutely fascinating to see how it is employed in so many different situations. It makes you feel like Kevin McCarthy (?) in the original 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers'...you see what is going on, but very few others do.
That's cool about Phil. Several years ago I spoke with him in a post at another website. I posted an article from his site and he registered so it could be discussed. Of all places,it was on a musicians board.:)
Thats why I have repeatedly said it's such a waste of time to attempt to argue with those people.. I've been to meetings, where the entire purpose was to come to a consensus.. they were artful .. the die was cast before we ever sat down.
you know, it's really a small [patriot] world.
grinny grin grin ping
Don't be so smug. I really appreciate good spin. And it's nice to relax and study some good examples here in my off hours. You're never too old to learn you know. Besides, do you think the folks I have to fool are going to be bothered by a bunch of facts that say they're wrong? Not bloody likely. (grin)
Sixty thousand little turds dispensed to date ....
Good information - thank you for the linkage.
Youre posting on a SATURDAY.. shame!
What a cynical joke LP has turned out to be. And there're really only two culprits to blame for the snake-pit it has become: Oculus Malus and Gravlax. At least on that other site, there's no longer any pretense that "all points of view are welcome."
You can't win. You can't break even. You can't get out of the game.
He's cutting in on my time, damn it!!!
I've given up on trying to teach anyone here anything (They gave Socrates hemlock, now this guy.) Posted on 02/12/2006 7:39:47 AM PST by a true thinker There's no helping you. This site is now just a diversion -- like a train wreck. This site is inherently for and about raving egomaniacs, and Jim's site policies -- which amount to excluding reality and actual dialogue in favor of political/militaristic pornography -- is conducive to cognitive dissonance, which at the times your worldview is threatened leads you into psychotic breaks (on the political cognitive plane, that is, and just maybe in other realms too). Not to mention that your baseline politics is based in mythology about American demographics, science, economics, ethics etc. You spoonfeed each other in the first place, so rationality on FR is always constrained to small scope matters. (You try to make up for this by shifting rapidly to things on which you share prejudices.) FR is a purist's dream illustration of Kant's opinion that "Most people claim to be thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices." The name of the site is an Orwellian joke -- the only freedom truly here is the animal kind the uncivilized insist on, the only 'res publica' of interest is of acting in conspiracy to screw the public good for private gain, the only laws and people you truly like are the ones that permit/protect the anarchy, parasitism, and thievery you prefer, and immoralism is the true religion you espouse. FR is a mismanaged zoo, really, and I like coming here on occasion -- the sights are alternatingly horrifying and amusing, but always a reminder of what the Enlightenment was a fight against. Best wishes.
It has been essentially an echo chamber since the "Big Cheese" there did a 180 on GW mid-2000 and announced there would be no more "Bush bashing" on the forum. Supposedly he "didn't want the forum used to elect Democrats." I wonder if there was something more to it than that---something more...umm...tangible...
You can't win. You can't break even. You can't get out of the game.
The one topic that is now "allowed" is bashing on the illegal aliens and our open borders: evidently, FresNeck, CA is sufficiently overrun with illegals, that even jr has sensed that we may have a problem. Cheers, Pete.
Quite a change. I guess even JR's and his brother's business in Mexico couldn't keep him on the GOP talking points. There was a post on LP of an FR post that went into some detail about that business. He complained they were having trouble finding enough workers, that they were all going north. I hope they all ended up in Fresno.
Mr Rumsfeld said the emergence of populist leaders through elections in Latin America was "worrisome".
Huh? I completely missed out on his bro's Mexican business - what is up with that? Thanks.
I'll try and find that link, not sure I can.
Mr Rumsfeld said the emergence of populist leaders through elections in Latin America was "worrisome".
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=87024&Disp
Mr Rumsfeld said the emergence of populist leaders through elections in Latin America was "worrisome".
They now have several hundred workers at the plant all making pretty good wages (for Mexico) and things are looking up for all. BUT, they are now labor bound. Even though they've automated some of their manufacturing processes, they need more labor to expand and are beginning to have problems recruiting workers. My brother says believe it or not, they're beginning to have labor shortages in Mexico. 73 posted on 03/06/2005 5:38:23 AM EST by Jim Robinson Thanks a bunch. Dear God - a labor shortage in Mexico? Send them back from our country and solve this crisis! (Or raise your slave labor wages.)
Three steps can diffuse the Delphi Technique as facilitators attempt to steer a meeting in a specific direction. 1. Always be charming, courteous, and pleasant. Smile. Moderate your voice so as not to come across as belligerent or aggressive. 2. Stay focused. If possible, jot down your thoughts or questions. When facilitators are asked questions they don't want to answer, they often digress from the issue that was raised and try instead to put the questioner on the defensive. Do not fall for this tactic. Courteously bring the facilitator back to your original question. If he rephrases it so that it becomes an accusatory statement (a popular tactic), simply say, "That is not what I asked. What I asked was . . ." and repeat your question. 3. Be persistent. If putting you on the defensive doesn't work, facilitators often resort to long monologues that drag on for several minutes. During that time, the group usually forgets the question that was asked, which is the intent. Let the facilitator finish. Then with polite persistence state: "But you didn't answer my question. My question was . . ." and repeat your question. Never become angry under any circumstances. Anger directed at the facilitator will immediately make the facilitator the victim. This defeats the purpose. The goal of facilitators is to make the majority of the group members like them, and to alienate anyone who might pose a threat to the realization of their agenda. Very interesting link!
The setting or type of group is immaterial for the success of the technique. The point is that, when people are in groups that tend to share a particular knowledge base, they display certain identifiable characteristics, known as group dynamics, which allows the facilitator to apply the basic strategy. Frightening, but good to know about!
Mr Rumsfeld said the emergence of populist leaders through elections in Latin America was "worrisome".
That is an excellent book. I met Eckman and the woman the book is about quite a few years ago.. her story is so interesting and what they uncovered was more than a tad frightening....
That, and the fact that if JR didn't allow some "venting" on borders/illegals, he'd drive his site head-on into a concrete barrier at 90 mph without a seat belt. The immigration issue damn near tore it apart circa January and February 2004, after you-know-who's shamnesty proposal.
You can't win. You can't break even. You can't get out of the game.
WOW! Chris is top notch; no questions.He is to the OKC bombing, as I am to 9-11. My encounters with Phil are on par with BAC. He may have learned something, though. We'll see. I suspect he didn't have much to say about me, though.
It's properly referred to as the "Perverted Delphi Technique," as the original was quite constructive and also productive. The psyops version attempts to "steer" with an illusion of democracy - "Adolph Hitler; ja- nein" In any event, the most effective strategy is to keep everything in 'question' format. "I thought you said this was about consensus, via free thinking and free- expression. Are you steering people's attitudes, for a reason?" "I'm familiar with the "Evolved Delphi Strategy;" is this a psyops experiment, or what?" The facilitator will work to get a 'bad person' to commit to a position, then nail them with accusations of deviance. "Well, you said X; are you now lying?" The most common red flags are the quesions, "Can we agree...." and "Is it fair to say that...." When the facilitator reaches for the "shame" or "ridicule" card, know they are not on your side. "Perception Control = Emotional Control = Mind Control." The mission is to create an illusion, which most would easily buy into. Again, it's about creating an ILLUSION!
Well, the "pod" issue came up, but nothing negative was said..just that you and he are in disagreement about its existence.
#2. To: avian virus (#0)
#3. To: robin, christine, Zipporah, robin, Zoroaster, BTP Holdings, Arator, Brian S, A K A Stone, Steppenwolf, Bub, mugwort, bluegrass, Bill D Berger, FormerLurker, Uncle Bill, Dakmar, Flintlock, Neil McIver, tom007, aristeides, Burkeman1, Diana, (#1)
Excellent catch! I didn't go that deep into the matter.
#4. To: SKYDRIFTER (#3)
Excellent catch! I didn't go that deep into the matter.
#5. To: SKYDRIFTER (#3)
#6. To: Zipporah (#4)
yep.. and look at the link I posted re the Delphi Technique and think about those on LP and FR for that matter who use this technique..
#7. To: who knows what evil (#6)
I am intrigued by the Delphi Technique, and once one becomes aware of how it works; you can see it employed in a number of situations; from the workplace to the classroom to the political arena; used everywhere, by everybody. When you have a controversial topic scheduled at an upcoming town hall meeting, make sure you attend, Democrat or Republican. I can almost guarantee you'll see it employed.
#8. To: Zipporah (#7)
...not to mention in sales.. If you're not clued in.. you can easily be diverted by those using it.. it amazes me how people on forums can be so manipulated by the change agents..and they're not even aware..
#9. To: christine (#5)
#10. To: who knows what evil (#8)
#11. To: Grumble Jones (#9)
#12. To: avian virus, h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t, orangedog, Badeye After Five, Weekend Badeye (#0)
#13. To: christine (#12)
grinney, grin, grin
#14. To: Zipporah (#2)
A popular tactic of facilitators, if a session is meeting with resistance, is to call a recess. During the recess, the facilitator and his spotters (people who observe the crowd during the course of a meeting) watch the crowd to see who congregates where, especially those who have offered resistance. If the resistors congregate in one place, a spotter will gravitate to that group and join in the conversation, reporting what was said to the facilitator. When the meeting resumes, the facilitator will steer clear of the resistors. Do not congregate. Instead gravitate to where the facilitators or spotters are. Stay away from your team members.
#15. To: Badeye After Five (#13)
#16. To: avian virus (#0)
#17. To: Zipporah (#15)
#18. To: Weekend Badeye, everyone (#17)
A recent post from fr -
#19. To: lodwick (#18)
The name of the site is an Orwellian joke
#20. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#19)
#21. To: lodwick (#20)
#22. To: robin (#21)
I guess even JR's and his brother's business in Mexico couldn't keep him on the GOP talking points.
#23. To: lodwick (#22)
#24. To: lodwick (#22)
#25. To: robin (#24)
My brother and I had our doubts but they set up the plant, hired and trained the workers and struggled for a few years, but they finally got it all together. Now they are a very profitable company shipping truck brakes all over the world and have problems keeping up with demand.
#26. To: Zipporah (#2)
How to Diffuse the Delphi Technique
#27. To: Diana, Zipporah (#26)
In her book Educating for the New World Order, author and educator Beverly Eakman makes numerous references to the need of those in power to preserve the illusion that there is "community participation in decision-making processes, while in fact lay citizens are being squeezed out."
#28. To: robin (#27)
Frightening, but good to know about!
#29. To: lodwick (#20)
The one topic that is now "allowed" is bashing on the illegal aliens and our open borders: evidently, FresNeck, CA is sufficiently overrun with illegals, that even jr has sensed that we may have a problem.
#30. To: christine (#5)
I met and had dinner with a friend of yours last night and we talked about you.
#31. To: Diana, Christine, Zipporah, robin, Zoroaster, BTP Holdings, Arator, Brian S, A K A Stone, Steppenwolf, Bub, mugwort, bluegrass, Bill D Berger, FormerLurker, Uncle Bill, Dakmar, Flintlock, Neil McIver, tom007, aristeides, Burkeman1, Diana, (#26)
The facilitator plays the "authority" figure, comparable to the Milgram torture experiments. As soon as the 'facilitator' manipulates the crowd; know that they are on the bad-guys team.
#32. To: SKYDRIFTER (#30)
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