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Title: Why Aren’t Hiroshima and Nagasaki War Crimes?
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URL Source: http://fff.org/2016/05/12/arent-hiroshima-nagasaki-war-crimes/
Published: May 13, 2016
Author: Jacob G. Hornberger
Post Date: 2016-05-13 06:41:16 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 399
Comments: 20
I don’t get it. On the one hand, we’re told that the intentional targeting of civilians in wartime is a war crime. On the other hand, we’re told that the intentional targeting of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with nuclear bombs was not a war crime. Which is it? The issue is back in the news with President Obama’s decision to visit Hiroshima. The question that is being debated is whether he should apologize for President Truman’s decision to order U.S. troops to drop nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during World War II. If the targeting of civilians in wartime is okay, then clearly the decision to nuke the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was not a war crime. But if that’s the case, then why was U.S. Army Lt. William Calley prosecuted during the Vietnam War? He’s the officer who intentionally killed several defenseless women and children in a Vietnamese village. The military prosecuted and convicted him of a war crime. Why? If it’s not a war crime to intentionally kill women and children in wartime, then why was Calley prosecuted and convicted of war crimes? The fact is that it is a war crime for troops to intentionally target non-combatants in wartime. Nobody disputes that. But then given such, why the pass on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Everyone agrees that Truman was targeting non-combatants — mainly women, children, and seniors — when he ordered the nuking of those two cities. How do defenders of Truman’s decision avoid the inexorable conclusion that Truman’s action constituted a war crime? Their primary argument is that the nuclear bombings of the cities shortened the war, thereby saving the lives of thousands of U.S. soldiers who would have died had the war been continued to be waged, especially if an invasion of Japan had been necessary. That’s in fact the rationale that has been cited for decades by U.S. soldiers who were fighting the Japanese in the Pacific. Many of them have expressed gratitude over the years for what Truman did because it enabled them to live the rest of their natural lives while, otherwise, they might have been killed in subsequent battles. But there are big problems with that rationale. For one, the fact that killing non-combatants might or will shorten a war is not a legal defense to the war crime. Suppose Calley had said that his killing of those women and children had shortened the Vietnam War or that he intended to shorten the war by his actions. Would that have constituted a legal defense at his war crimes trial? Or suppose U.S. airmen who have bombed all those wedding parties in Afghanistan were to say, “We did it on purpose because we felt it would shorten the war.” Would they be let off the hook at their war crimes trial? The answer is: No because that is not a legal defense to the war crime. The law does not say that the crime is excused if it succeeds in shortening the war or if it is intended to shorten the war. Moreover, once that rationale is accepted, then doesn’t it logically apply to both sides in a war? What’s to prevent an enemy nation from intentionally targeting American non-combatants during war under the rationale that by doing so, it is bringing the war to an early conclusion, thereby saving the lives of many of its soldiers? Once both sides are relying on that rationale, doesn’t that effectively nullify the legal prohibition? The fact is that soldiers die in war. That’s the nature of war. What’s one to say about a soldier who exclaims, “Thank you for killing those defenseless women, children, and seniors so that I could live out my natural life”? It’s certainly difficult to imagine Gen. George Patton ever saying such a thing. One cannot imagine that Patton would ever have been willing to kill defenseless women, children, and seniors if it meant that the lives of his soldiers would be spared. I think Patton would have said, “Get out there and fight. If you die, so be it. We are not going to kill defenseless women, children, and seniors just so you can live a longer life.” Some defenders of the nuclear attacks say that since Japan started the war, the Japanese people at Hiroshima and Nagasaki had it coming to them. But since when do individual citizens have much say as to when their nation goes to war or not? How much say did the American people have in George W. Bush’s and the U.S. national-security state’s decision to go to war against Iraq and Afghanistan? And let’s not forget who intentionally maneuvered, postured, and provoked Japan into attacking the United States, especially with his oil embargo on Japan, his freezing of Japanese bank accounts, and his settlement terms that were deliberately humiliating to Japanese officials. That would be none other than President Franklin Roosevelt, who was willing to sacrifice the soldiers at Pearl Harbor and in the Philippines in order to circumvent widespread opposition among the American people to getting involved in World War II. Isn’t there something unsavory about provoking a nation into starting a war and then using that nation’s starting the war to justify nuking its citizens in an attempt to bring the war to a quicker conclusion? Wouldn’t it have been better and less destructive to not have provoked Japan into attacking the United States in the first place? Defenders of the nuclear attacks also say that Truman had only two choices: nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki and continuing the war until Japan surrendered. But that’s just not true. There was another option open to Truman — a negotiated surrender. Given Truman’s steadfast insistence, however, on “unconditional surrender” —a ludicrous and destructive position if there ever was one — a negotiated surrender was an option that he refused to explore, choosing instead to kill hundreds of thousands of non-combatants in order to secure his “unconditional surrender” from Japan, which, by the way, turned out to not be “unconditional” after all since Japan was permitted to keep its emperor as part of its surrender. The real reason why so many Americans still cannot bring themselves to acknowledge that the nuclear attacks on the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were war crimes is their inability or unwillingness to acknowledge that their own government, including their own president and their own military, were capable of committing and actually did commit a grave war crime–the intentional killing of noncombatants consisting primarily of women, children, and seniors. In the minds of many Americans, that’s something only foreign governments are capable of and willing to do, not their own government.
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#1. To: Ada (#0)
That's easy -- the nukes were ordered by a PRESIDENT, My Lai wasn't. A PRESIDENT is a magical, special human being not bound by time or space, rules or perspective. He can command the worst atrocities in history (well, the US ones do -- constantly) and go down in history as a great, tough decision maker. But a mere army lootallent? Not as much, even though -- wearing a USG uniform and all -- he too has the divine mantle of authority and prestige, all things being equal. But they can't count on the same legacy following them to glory because, well, they're not presidents and ergo only half magic, not fully. Poor sucker -- he tho't he could get away with mass murder since that's what war is. But he was miscalculated. That was Vietnam, when the TV cameras were shoving reality at amerikans on the 6 o'clock news. (Well, sort of.) If he'd done it today mebbe nobody would have known! This is the TERROR age -- "we think the price is worth it". (Speaking of which!) Ted Crudz: The Mask of Sincerity
Despite Colin Powell's efforts to cover up, Calley was finally tried and convicted. www.consortiumnews.com/2009/090409.html But Powell tried and was rewarded for his crime.
Great stuff! We need all the dirt we can find on Colon Bowell. Too many people still think this hateful bastard is the magic negro. I've NEVER had any use for him. (Is she applying it with a magnolia leaf?) Ted Crudz: The Mask of Sincerity
Germany surrendered unconditionally - after the Allies overran nearly every square foot of Germany. To do so in the Japanese islands would have cost too many lives on both sides. Far more Japanese would have died in a protracted invasion than were killed by the two atomic weapons. There was speculation that the Japanese, as a race, would nearly perish. War is messy, brutal, and people die. But if that’s the case, then why was U.S. Army Lt. William Calley prosecuted during the Vietnam War? He’s the officer who intentionally killed several defenseless women and children in a Vietnamese village. The military prosecuted and convicted him of a war crime. Why? If it’s not a war crime to intentionally kill women and children in wartime, then why was Calley prosecuted and convicted of war crimes?
#2. To: NeoconsNailed (#1)
the nukes were ordered by a PRESIDENT, My Lai wasn't.
#3. To: Ada (#2)
(Edited)
#4. To: Ada, Cynicom, Turtle, Lod (#0)
Defenders of the nuclear attacks also say that Truman had only two choices: nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki and continuing the war until Japan surrendered. But that’s just not true. There was another option open to Truman — a negotiated surrender. Given Truman’s steadfast insistence, however, on “unconditional surrender” —a ludicrous and destructive position if there ever was one — a negotiated surrender was an option that he refused to explore, choosing instead to kill hundreds of thousands of non-combatants in order to secure his “unconditional surrender” from Japan, which, by the way, turned out to not be “unconditional” after all since Japan was permitted to keep its emperor as part of its surrender.
-Alex Kurtagic
#5. To: X-15 (#4)
X.... The nay sayers were not there, were not going to pay the price. They often quote Eisenhower as saying in hindsight we should not have used the bomb. May I quote from experience, when I arrived in the A bomb delivery business, that mad man Truman was in charge, all our targets were in Russia. Now, in 1953, Truman is gone, Eisenhower is President and in charge. Not one damned thing changed, the targets were Russian in 1954, same as with Truman. Not one iota changed in four long years. What Eisenhower wrote long after the fact is NOT REALITY.
#6. To: X-15 (#4)
X... This from Britannica... """In July 1945 project administrators polled 150 of the 300 scientists working at the Chicago site and could find only 19 who rejected any military use of the bomb and another 39 who supported an experimental demonstration with representatives of Japan present, followed by an opportunity for surrender. Most of the scientists, however, supported some use of the bomb: 23 supported using it in a way that was militarily “most effective,” and 69 opted for a “military demonstration in Japan” with an opportunity for surrender “before full use of the weapons.” In later years, several key figures, including General Dwight D. Eisenhower, General Douglas MacArthur, Admiral William Leahy, and Assistant Secretary of War John J. McCloy, claimed to have opposed using the bomb, but there is no firm evidence of any substantial contemporary opposition.""" Korean war ended, Ike was President, 1954, A BOMBS WERE READY FOR USE. Those that quote Ike are deluding themselves.
#7. To: Ada (#0)
Murdering hundreds of thousands innocent civilians is a war crime for those losing a war. It in not a crime for winning a war because only the winners are the judges.
#8. To: Cynicom (#6)
Speculation: if Ike had been briefed on the existence of and offered the use of an atomic bomb to be dropped on Berlin in 1944 before D-Day in the hope of canceling the invasion of Normandy, would he have said "Yes"??
-Alex Kurtagic
#9. To: X-15 (#4)
The Japanese were willing to surrender. Their only condition was preservation of the emperor. We rejected that, demanding unconditional surrender. We got it but respected the emperor's position anyway. So do you have any objection to a negotiated surrender?
#10. To: X-15 et al (#4) (Edited)
But when the war -- or amerika's participation in it -- is totally contrived? Would anybody here have had the guts to give the order for those bombings, appointing yourself god over prolly 1/3 million people -- and knowing they would include yankee prisoners of war? Wonder why nobody's ever done a documentary on those poor fools' survivors. They must have had a few pithy words to offer. Something tells me they didn't quote Chairman Mao "You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs." www.youtube.com/watch? v=oiOJ07nyfM4 ------------------------------------------------------- (I'm proud to say I have NO idea what any of them are.) 
Ted Crudz: The Mask of Sincerity
#11. To: X-15 (#8)
X....You get an A++++ for that. There is much about that period of time that is glossed over and or never taught. That is evident by the comments of a few made here. Sadly they are programmed and unable to recognize it. First the A bomb was a purely jewish program in this country. Mostly Soviet admirers such as we have here. Second, had the bomb been ready earlier, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN USED AGAINST GERMAN CITIES AND WE WOULD NOT BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION. Would Ike have used it? That was a political decision, not a military one, however, recall Ike had an American soldier shot, not because of desertion, rather because he refused to fight any more. MacArthur shot no one and asked to use A bombs in Korean war to save lives and was turned down. Lastly, Germany, Japan and Russia were busy at work on their own A bombs, we got there first. Had Truman dropped them on Germany, our friends here would be extolling what a righteous man he was, such hypocrisy. Frankly, if Truman had rung the bell, we would have had no qualms about dropping dozens of them on the Russians. To my knowledge no man ever walked away wringing their hands with guilt, such as we find here. Speculation: if Ike had been briefed on the existence of and offered the use of an atomic bomb to be dropped on Berlin in 1944 before D-Day in the hope of canceling the invasion of Normandy, would he have said "Yes"??
#12. To: Cynicom, X-15 (#11)
Neither Ike nor Truman would have dropped the bomb on Berlin nor anywhere else in Europe for the simple reason it would have killed the European and Russian populations by way of nuclear fallout. Japan was an island in the Western Pacific that was far enough away from the US to "not worry about it".
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#13. To: FormerLurker (#12)
Don't think they knew or cared much about fallout then. I understand that the bomb had been intended for Germany but the Germans surrendered too early for us to use it on them. Neither Ike nor Truman would have dropped the bomb on Berlin nor anywhere else in Europe for the simple reason it would have killed the European and Russian populations by way of nuclear fallout.
#14. To: X-15 (#4)
The winners write the history.
"Have Brain, Will Travel
#15. To: Ada, Cynicom (#9) (Edited)
So do you have any objection to a negotiated surrender? I think that unconditional surrender was correct. The emperor was "demoted" as God-head, so that wasn't exactly a concession for the Japanese, it was a HUGE slap against their culture. The fact that he was allowed to live in shame (loss of face) was rubbing their faces in it. A further defeat. If the emperor had committed ritual suicide with a parting message to the military and civilians to fight on, no matter what, then it would have been all over for Japan as a nation and probably as a race. We would have dropped at least one more atomic bomb before the invasions commenced. That would have impacted world history and stopped the birth of hundreds of thousands of Americans because future fathers would have been killed in Japan in a carnage that would have been worse than all of the other island campaigns combined. The Japanese were willing to surrender. Their only condition was preservation of the emperor. We rejected that, demanding unconditional surrender. We got it but respected the emperor's position anyway.
-Alex Kurtagic
#16. To: X-15 (#15)
MacArthur treated the emperor with diplomacy. He made sure that his office did not overlook, i.e., look down upon, the palace and did not insist that the emperor wait on him He knew that eventually the emperor would make the call, and he did. The fact that he was allowed to live in shame (loss of face) was rubbing their faces in it
#17. To: X-15 (#15)
X.. I find it enlightening that the question is never posed asking, would Germany and Japan have used nuclear, had they been the first to perfect it? Very basic concept by those that abhor war, let someone else die to protect me. Hand wringers always remind me of this... """ J. P. Morgan had escaped military service in the Civil War by paying $300 to a substitute. So did John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, Philip Armour, Jay Gould, and James Mellon. Mellon's father had written to him that "a man may be a patriot without risking his own life or sacrificing his health. There are plenty of lives less valuable."""
#18. To: Cynicom (#17)
The dregs of society are always there to bail out the wealthy who are able to pay for a substitute. ;) There are plenty of lives less valuable.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
#19. To: BTP Holdings (#18)
Having been one of the "dregs" in two wars, there was never any time, in which we did NOT know our place. Instantly, on opening day, we KNEW who would go, who would not, who would bleed and die, who would not. The hand wringers appeared long after the fact. Such shallow self serving people. The dregs of society are always there to bail out the wealthy who are able to pay for a substitute. ;)
#20. To: X-15 (#4)
You know that when the invasion of Japan did not go off as planned, the guns that were in storage on Guam were put on two ships. One was sent to Pyongyang, and the other to Haiphong. They were sending them the guns to start the next two wars. I know this from reading the book, "Tragedy and Hope" by Carroll Quigley. Quigley was an intelligence agent during WW II. At the end of the war, he was at a Navy base on Guam. That is when he saw two ships set sail. He asked the Harbor Master where they were headed, and he told him what I mentioned in the first paragraph. Nice government. And to think how many thousands perished in those god-forsaken hell holes. ;) To do so in the Japanese islands would have cost too many lives on both sides.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
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