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Title: Can Christ Followers Save The World From Christians
Source:
We Hold These Truths
URL Source: http://www.whtt.org/index.php?news=2&id=709
Published: Feb 6, 2006
Author: Charles E. Carlson
Post Date: 2006-02-15 00:09:52 by Red Jones
Keywords: Christians, Followers, Christ
Views: 4351
Comments: 491
Can Christ Followers save the world from Christians Charles E. Carlson Feb 06, 2006 Why all the bad news? The news stories in the world press, from South Africa to Norway, are incredibly negative about the USA. It was not always that way. Once, not long ago, most press was good to the USA. Our generations of military and tourists have been treated like liberators in Germany and Japan, countries we helped to destroy and then rebuilt. But no more, “America” is mud. This letter is not for everyone. Some already recognize the answer, but many still deny that the USA has become both the awful predator, and the world’s engine of monetary dilution. Less anyone thinks this writer is causing America’s image problem we add these words from a pretty good President, Theodore Roosevelt, who was also a decorated military officer: "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President or any other public official, save to the extent in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country.” "In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth - whether about the president or anyone else - save in the rare case where this would make known to the enemy information of military value which would otherwise be unknown to him." -Theodore Roosevelt Jesus gave us parables to help us understand his lessons. We follow his example with a parable about a man and the pet he loves and think he controls, which we liken to our government. This man discovers, to his horror and dismay, that his family dog has become a nighttime marauder, a predator, slipping out of the yard and pillaging the community, killing other pets and threatening pedestrians, and then jumping back into the backyard to sleep it off. What should the man do: 1) Feed the dog more and hope he will stay home? 2) Build a higher fence, cement-in the yard and put double locks on every access? (3) Ignore the problem? (4) Put the dog to sleep before someone is hurt? The pet owner could try the second choice (2), if he has the patience and money, but chances are he will not sleep well at night. It is his responsibility to stop the crimes, even if it means he has to destroy his own dog. It is not up to the police to solve the crime, nor is it up to the neighbors to correct it. In truth, he should do it himself because he is responsible, not the taxpayers who pay for the animal shelter. Similarly, it is up to the most responsible Americans to correct criminal acts against its world neighbors, and if we do not then the blood of the USA’s every crime is on our hands. It is not good enough to say, "Oh, this is a great place to live...our standard of living is the envy of the world...even if we do make some mistakes." It is not our place to recite all the wrongs of our government, we would never finish, nor do we defend any other government for it murderous faults. All are corrupt to some degree. We do defend the right to life of our neighbors, as described in our own Declaration of Independence. Life itself is a gift from God...this is not (for followers of Christ) a subjective, take it or leave it observation, it is an absolute. A friend and supporter recently called to ask me if I might tone down what he considered my obvious favoritism toward the Palestinian people, whom we have come to call the Philistines. He told me I sound so biased that someone who did not know me might think "they are paying me." In fact, it is people like my caller who is supporting We Hold These Truths, so we listen. My reply was: Thanks, but I cannot help what I say or the passion that shows through. I have been to the land of the Philistines and seen. Now I am their champion as long as they are suppressed by our own government. Our government is the marauding dog. I told my friend I would try to do a better job of explaining my bias, but I must not stop defending the innocent blood that is being shed. This is not to say the Philistines, or their current leaders, Hamas, are perfect, nor to deny they have their criminal element, which they do have. I told a beleaguered Univerisity class the same thing when I stood among them in Gaza City, but it is our government. not theirs, that is the problem. I have but one point to make. God does not “Will” that this great land become the predator of the world. He expects us to be the good stewards of what we are given. We can stop the marauding animal in our back yards if we will allow God to help us. And, if God does not help us, we need not worry about it, for it should now be obvious to most that we cannot overcome the mass of evil power loosed on the world by our own strength alone. Our “predator” inside our gates has become a "King Kong behemoth. We can succeed only if we do it God’s way, else we will fail. Abraham Lincoln may have later broken his own rules, but he was dead right when he stated in 1848: “Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and form a new one that suits them better.” It seem logical thta God's way is to correct His followers As we have said over and over again and say now, the self-styled Christian Zionist churches, with some 70 million under their influence, are the logical answer. We call them Scofieldized churches, others call them Dispensational, or lately Christian Zionists, whatever name you call them, they are the enablers of the monster on the loose in the world. It is Scofieldized churches that feed it; it is they who left the gate ajar at night, and they taught the marauder to vault the highest fence. They hatched a logic and theology that enables ethnic cleansing in the Mideast. Only the Scofieldized church, among all the major religions in the world, believes the acts of the nighttime marauder are Godly, and therefore, encourages it. In America the members of the Scofieldized churchs are the salt of the earth, the good neighbors we all want, the famliy poeple who care, but they are horrible and criminaly misled and they must be salvaged from God professors to Jesus Christ's followers. Scofildized Christian Zionists simply refuse to see the blood and torn bodies of victims. One of the Ten Commandments that God is said to have given to Moses is: "You shall not [no, never] take the name of the Lord your God in vain." This is exactly what the Scofieldized churches do today by supporting in God’s name that which God abhors, the spilling of innocent blood. Each one allows the abuses that Jesus denied and decried. He said to the Pharisees, "you will not enter into heaven, and you block the way of anyone who would enter." Jesus could have been speaking to the pastors today. What is needed is men who will use any tactic that is legal, moral and Godly to reach into the evangelical church and paint the blood of the victims on its doorways where they cannot overlook it. This is the mission of Pharisee Watch and Project Strait Gate. And how do we achieve such a feat? God’s churches, if they are of God, should be the salt of the earth, but these millions have lost their savor, and therefore, are: "fit only to be trodden under the feet of men." But they can change…most of We Hold These Truth's advisors did. Each Christian Zionist at some point lost his senses in the shouting crowd; they will regain their senses slowly, one by one, church by church…with our/your help. This is our agenda. Start by watching our one hour presentation, with your friends, right on your computer, or you may buy it for your TV: Our best tool to help you teach, view it free: Why Christian-Zionist cannot work for peace, Interactive fully guided free audio/video.
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#199. To: Feynman Lives!, Mehitable (#149)
Got ya!! I just got my dictionary to look up tone, as I remember in English classes tone was indeed a factor in literature and writing. Okey, one of the many definitions of tone in Webster's dictionary is: 3 a manner of speaking or writing that shows a certain attitude on the part of the speaker or writer, consisting in choice of words, phrasing, etc. [the friendly tone of her letter]...
When one reads the Gospels, one has to understand they are not journalists giving blow by blow accounts of what happened. It is a writing in the context of the Cross, years later. It is not a purely historical recounting. We are talking retrospective history. The apostles lived with Christ for years and were often confused and did not "get" he was God. They are reflecting back on years previous in the light of the Passion after they had figured out who Christ was. There was a deliberate theology in place already so that we would be given an interpretation of events.
I think ya pinned him to the mat, Diana. Let's see if he can execute a step over toe hold.
Who in the heck is RF Richard Feyanman (sp) one of the clearest thinkers, esp. in physics of our time.. A remarkable man, Reagan called him to investigate the Challanger Space Shuttle disaster in (1982?), and according to the lore I read at the time, he was awoaken from one of those "neutral bouncey (sp) tubs) where he was doing the governments work for us on LSD. He was the point man on the O Ring failure that doomed the Challanger, and, was pretty much the smartest man on earth. A nice guy as well, from what I can tell. Tom, Dr Feynman was indeed one of the most brilliant minds we have ever encountered. He deciphered the Mayan hieroglyphics himself (as a puzzle, not an assignment), solved the Challenger disaster, INVENTED quantum electrodynamics, pioneered nanotechnology, and taught himself to pick the safe that held ALL the secrets of the atomic bomb without outside help. Apple Computer picked him to be their spokesperson for their "THINK DIFFERENT" campaign. Oh, and he loved to play the congas. He didn't do LSD, however. That is part of his mythology. His last words were "I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring"
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I could drag out my technical writing books too? They say remember your audience, use the correct tone accordingly...
Richard Feynman Figures, doesn't it?
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
I just got my dictionary to look up tone, as I remember in English classes tone was indeed a factor in literature and writing. Okey, one of the many definitions of tone in Webster's dictionary is: 3 a manner of speaking or writing that shows a certain attitude on the part of the speaker or writer, consisting in choice of words, phrasing, etc. [the friendly tone of her letter]... Yes, that is a definition for tone. However, TONE is also a function of the INTERPRETATION of the listener or reader, if you complete the definition and don't just go .... Eh... Diana, I love ya so! *BIG smoochies for Diana! :) Wanna be my date for prom?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Figures, doesn't it? Curious... what do you mean by that? Because, on first glance, I would take it as a compliment. Though I highly doubt that was your TONE when you wrote it. (playful look to DIANA!)
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Scooter, Perhaps YOU will step up and answer this question, you seem to be a reasonable person. Is the bible TRUE? Meaning FACTUAL. Did all the events in the bible actually take place? If not, which ones did not, and how do you know for certain? As a follow-up... how do you reconcile the plethora of inconsistencies and blatant contradictions in the bible? Thanks for taking the time to give me a thoughtful and measured response. I look forward to reading your story when I return from my walk.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I'm not going back to try to decipher your inane rants against God. It's not worth any more of my time. Some people are not going to be saved. Period. You apparently choose to be one of them. I'm not going to change you. I'm not going to try. It's a waste of time. It's casting pearls before swine, as the Bible says. I know God is real. I'd like for you to believe, but if you don't, that is your choice and your loss, as you will find out some day, possibly not too long in the future. God is not mocked. All your supposed wisdom is nothing but foolishness to Him, and to anyone with half your intelligence.
LOL!
God’s churches, if they are of God, should be the salt of the earth, but these millions have lost their savor, and therefore, are: "fit only to be trodden under the feet of men." But they can change…most of We Hold These Truth's advisors did. Each Christian Zionist at some point lost his senses in the shouting crowd; they will regain their senses slowly, one by one, church by church…with our/your help. This is our agenda. Start by watching our one hour presentation, with your friends, right on your computer, or you may buy it for your TV: Our best tool to help you teach, view it free: Why Christian-Zionist cannot work for peace, Interactive fully guided free audio/video. I can't watch this on my old computer. Have you watched it? Anyone?
Most everyone knows that I have a hard time believing that Jesus is the son of God. I have a hard time believing that God would be in human form, and God should know everything past, present and future, but Jesus didn't seem to. There have been times where I have struggled to believe, but I just can't. Maybe God does not want me, who knows. Red I hope you are right about people who have a hard time not believing but don't go to hell because they basically try to live their lives in a moral way and care about all people and their well-being. I know there are many Christians who insist that if you don't believe in Jesus, being good will only get you to hell, that you must believe in order to go to Heaven, that good works get you nowhere. Well I will still do what my conscience tells me to do, even if I can't believe in Jesus, even if I go to hell, I will continue to do my best to help those around me to have an easier life as I believe life on earth is a hell of sorts for everyone.
That's what I believe, it's not the religion that matters but the heart and actions of each individual.
Interesting post. The real Feynman, is he a physicist? They are making some very interesting discoveries concerning subatomic particles that do not fit in with what we have thought all along about the physical world.
Did he die? I think I'll look him up..sounds interesting but I'm surprised I haven't heard of him as I'm at least familiar with a lot of names, mostly chemists though.
Well goodnight everybody it's 9 here which means it's later everywhere else.
Most everyone knows that I have a hard time believing that Jesus is the son of God. I have a hard time believing that God would be in human form, and God should know everything past, present and future, but Jesus didn't seem to. There have been times where I have struggled to believe, but I just can't. Maybe God does not want me, who knows Diana, I didn't know that about you. That hit me in the stomach. I can honestly say from what I've seen from you, God DOES want you! Why do you say Jesus didn't seem to know everything? Jhn 7:45 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him? Jhn 7:46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man. http://www.bluelett erbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn007.html#46 http://www.blueletterb ible.org/tsk_b/Jhn/7/46.html You are one I would spend the time with to help you come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ. I want to be SURE you are with us when He returns.
Me too. It's past midnight. Red Jones, Carlson sounds worn out. I think he needs a little help. Many hands make light work. We HAVE to wake up the rest of the church. Btainstorm, everyone.
That's it, wipe the dust from your feet and move on. ;0)
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Pretty simple question, Horsie... How can you reconcile the FOUR apparent versions of Jesus' LAST WORDS? They all came out of YOUR bible, which YOU claim is TRUE. Which one has the TRUE last words of Jesus, and how do YOU know? For god to be mocked, god would have to exist first, so I agree with your premise that god is not mocked. You can't answer a SIMPLE question about a HUGE inconsistency in the bible. I see that you don't cast pearls before swine, you keep them safely stored in your jar of vinegar.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Diana, Not only was he a physicist, he was one of the most gifted physicist of all time. He won the Nobel Prize for the discovery of the field of Quantum Electrodynamics. He is a great author as well and gave fantastic lectures. He writes many books of complex science so that the "common man" can understand them. Check out "Six Easy Pieces" if you have a chance. Others of my favorite quotes of his: "I was born not knowing and have only had a little time to change that here and there." "It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong" and "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts. If you thought that science was certain - well, that is just an error on your part."
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Jhn 7:45 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him? Jhn 7:46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man. REALLY? Horsie... here are PRIME examples of JESUS NOT KNOWING EVERYTHING. When second coming? Hmm... I know, let's ask JESUS! MATT 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Here we find more of his blunder on the topic of the END OF THE WORLD: In MATT 16:27-28, Jesus claims he will return before some of his hearers taste death. Verse 27 states that he will come "in the glory of the Father with his angels" and that "he shall reward every man according to his works." Now, at least they all SEEM to agree on what he said, which is a relief! However, his generation, the NEXT generation, the generation after that, and MANY more, have tasted death. Even though Jesus seemed to KNOW the end was RIGHT around the corner, all those people have come and gone and it sure seems like ALL ain't been fulfilled yet. OOOPSIES! STRIKE ONE! Hey Jesus! Are you equal to or lesser than god? JOHN 10:30 I and my Father are one. JOHN 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And this is out of the same book by the same author! STRIKE TWO!! Do I judge, do I not judge? I just can't remember! God and I are not one, and god does not judge. Hang on, I really didn't come here to judge at all, now I remember! AGAIN, out of the SAME BOOK, by the SAME AUTHOR! STRIKE THREEEEEEE, YER OUTTA HERE! Diana, according to the BIBLE, Jesus SURELY did not know much about anything, he barely knew why he was here in the first place! "There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Whether the Bible is true or not is irrelevant, what is certain is that end timers who confound the message of Christ with Zionism and modern-day Israel are lunatics. Cam you imagine John Hagee's church services in the days leading up to the nuking of Iran? With Sunday school children chanting "nuke, nuke, nuke, nuke Iran," then Hagee urging Bush and Cheney to not only nuke Iran, but all of Israel’s enemies, Russia, China, and the Europeans Union.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
I continue to find your anti-Christian hate posts disgusting, just gratuitous sliming. Juvenile. Grow up.
Actually, if the bible is not true, then the crux of many of the statements put forth by people like you Red Jones, Phaedrus, AKA Stone, BTP Holdings, Horsie, and many others here disappears and your bible-based positions become utterly meaningless as they use the supposed "truth" of the bible to support there untennable positions. For example: in your case - the bible is not true, so your silly "end of times" fear goes away entirely.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I am not anti-christian, Phaedrus, I just know that the bible is a storybook and not a true history of anything. Please show me how telling the TRUTH about the bible is disgusting. If you can show me where I am incorrect, and that without a doubt the bible is incontravertibly true, I would be delighted to see your evidence. Otherwise, the only one here being juvenile is you.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I'm reminded of a parable I once heard when I was a lad... Long ago, the wind and the sun decided to have a contest to see who was stronger. So they looked to the earth and saw a man wearing a cloak walking along a path and felt that this man would make a good example as to who was the more powerful of the two. They decided to see who could get the man to remove his cloak first. The wind decided to go first and tried to blow the man's cloak off of him. When it wouldn't come off, he blew harder and harder with all his might yet could not get the cloak off the man. In fact, the man only drew the cloak tighter and tighter to his body. When the wind finally exhausted all of his might, there the man sat with his claok wrapped tightly around him still. So the sun took it's turn and just shined on the man with no effort...just a nice warm glow. After time, the man began to loosen his grip on the cloak. Then after a while longer, he began to sweat. And finally after some waiting and some patience from the sun, the man finally removed his cloak thus declaring the sun the winner. The moral here is that when dealing with people, approaching them with harshness will only cause them to draw furthur away from you and make them more tight-lipped. The key is to have patience and give the charity that all can give whether rich or poor, simple kindness, compassion, a warm smile and genuine concern for their well being. Then people will be more open with you and share what is in their hearts, thus causing you to be able to know the real; the only thing worth truly knowing in any of us. Personally, I'm of the opinion that monotheism is in error. But I'll never condemn others for their beliefs, unless they seek to inflict those beliefs on others against their will.
As for my "tone"... well, that is YOUR perception of my writing, there is no TONE in text. You create the tone in how you choose to read it.
#200. To: Feynman Lives! (#175)
#201. To: Diana (#199)
#202. To: tom007 (#198)
To: Diana, sky drifter
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#203. To: Feynman Lives!, Mehitable, tom007 (#150)
Hey MEHITABLE!! Here we have another perfect example of someone reading a tone into something that was not intended by the writer.
#204. To: Diana (#192)
Who in the heck is RF?
#205. To: Diana (#199)
Got ya!!
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#206. To: BTP Holdings (#204)
Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#207. To: scooter (#200)
To: Feynman Lives! When one reads the Gospels, one has to understand they are not journalists giving blow by blow accounts of what happened. It is a writing in the context of the Cross, years later. It is not a purely historical recounting. We are talking retrospective history. The apostles lived with Christ for years and were often confused and did not "get" he was God. They are reflecting back on years previous in the light of the Passion after they had figured out who Christ was. There was a deliberate theology in place already so that we would be given an interpretation of events.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#208. To: Feynman Lives! (#197)
#209. To: mehitable (#184)
Besides Christianity, what other bugs do you have up your ass?
#210. To: Red Jones (#0)
What is needed is men who will use any tactic that is legal, moral and Godly to reach into the evangelical church and paint the blood of the victims on its doorways where they cannot overlook it. This is the mission of Pharisee Watch and Project Strait Gate. And how do we achieve such a feat?
#211. To: Feynman Lives!, Red Jones (#188)
#212. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#191)
. I have met so many who have the light of God in their eyes, and are unassuming, peaceful, and loving. I feel God takes all these things into consideration, and I think they may be judged differently based on the knowledge they were given. And as I said, I don't believe all who call themselves Christian are going to get into heaven.
#213. To: Feynman Lives! (#194)
"I often use the analogy of a chess game: one can learn all the rules of chess, but one doesn't know how to play well. The present situation in physics is as if we know chess, but we don't know one or two rules. But in this part of the board where things are operation, those one or two rules are not operating much and we can get along pretty well without understanding those rules. That's the way it is, I would say, regarding the phenomena of life, consciousness and so forth.
#214. To: tom007 (#198)
was pretty much the smartest man on earth. A nice guy as well, from what I can tell.
#215. To: All (#214)
#216. To: Diana (#211)
#217. To: Diana, Red Jones, christine (#215)
Well goodnight everybody it's 9 here which means it's later everywhere else.
#218. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt, Feynman Lives! (#208)
It's casting pearls before swine, as the Bible says.
#219. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#208)
I'm not going back to try to decipher your inane rants against God.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#220. To: Diana (#213)
Interesting post. The real Feynman, is he a physicist?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#221. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#216)
Why do you say Jesus didn't seem to know everything?
MARK 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
LUKE 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
MATT 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
MARK 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
LUKE 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
JOHN 5:22 "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son."
I sure don't judge... but, if I diiiiid....
JOHN 8:16 "I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true."
JOHN 12:47 "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."
Oh, wait, I am DEFINITELY here to judge you all!
JOHN 10:39 "For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind."
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#222. To: Feynman Lives! (#221)
#223. To: Feynman Lives! (#221)
#224. To: Zoroaster (#222)
Whether the Bible is true or not is irrelevant,
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#225. To: Phaedrus (#223)
I continue to find your anti-Christian hate posts disgusting, just gratuitous sliming. Juvenile. Grow up.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#226. To: Phaedrus (#223)
 | Gold and silver are real money, paper is but a promise. |
#227. To: Feynman Lives! (#225)
Certain OT statements and events are historically accurate, as independently testified from Assyrian tablets dated to the same time. See Sennacherib, c. 680 BC or so.
I just know that the bible is a storybook and not a true history of anything.
#228. To: Elliott Jackalope (#226)
And you don't see that, all throughout history, christianity has sought to inflict those beliefs on others against their will? Here's an easy one: The Spanish Inquisition. Personally, I'm of the opinion that monotheism is in error. But I'll never condemn others for their beliefs, unless they seek to inflict those beliefs on others against their will.
They were FAR too inquisitive! People were KILLED for not professing their belief in christ. KILLED. It sure as hell wasn't the Spanish Casual Chat.
Ya don't like that one, look at how the christians treated the Indians in America.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#229. To: tom007 (#227)
Tom, Certain statements in Tom Clancy's "Clear And Present Danger" are also historically accurate. Does that mean that we should also view the work of Tom Clancy as being the work of GOD? Just because there are a FEW factual events that can be linked up to the bible does NOT mean that the bible should EVER be considered to be a true history of anything. If I discuss the War of 1812 in a storybook I am writing, it does not make my story FACT because there is a historically accurate statement in it.
Certain OT statements and events are historically accurate, as independently testified from Assyrian tablets dated to the same time. See Sennacherib, c. 680 BC or so.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#230. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#229)
Do you see anything good in Christianity, or any good that has come about because of it?
#231. To: Feynman Lives! (#229)
Does that mean that we should also view the work of Tom Clancy as being the work of GOD? This is a ridiculous argument..
Certain statements in Tom Clancy's "Clear And Present Danger" are also historically accurate.
#232. To: Feynman Lives! (#229)
oes that mean that we should also view the work of Tom Clancy as being the work of GOD? You said that, not me. Seem to be your style, make an outrageous claims and attribute them to someone else. Not the sign of an honest person. You COLULD have generated a useful dialogue here on the history truthfulness of the bible, but I don't think that was ever your intent.
and not a true history of anything.
#233. To: Elliott Jackalope, FeynmanLives! (#226)
Personally, I'm of the opinion that monotheism is in error. But I'll never condemn others for their beliefs, unless they seek to inflict those beliefs on others against their will. Thanks, Elliott. Feyn indulges in what Eric Voegelin would call the promotion of a Second Reality, one wholly comprised of words. He's a salesman and a utopian of the Materialist/Atheist/Marxist sort, a rabid anti-Christian, as found throughout academia. He is misled. I am stating clearly who and what he is for all to see -- and he IS seeking to inflict his delusions on the rest of us. My manner is direct so that there can be no mistaking the message, bearing always in mind that we here are dealing solely with words on a screen posted anonymously. My own belief is that no sane, balanced, thinking man or woman can be an atheist. I know that may sound arrogant but believe I can convince any truly open-minded person that God is real, if not conforming to our various historic images of "Him". On the other hand, while that knowledge is extremely important to me personally, I feel no need to seek agreement from others. I'm not selling anything, founding a church or running for "Guru". In short, simply to identify lies and sophistry is a service to others in their quest for truth, for we all seek truth each in our own way. Or so I think.
The moral here is that when dealing with people, approaching them with harshness will only cause them to draw furthur away from you and make them more tight-lipped. The key is to have patience and give the charity that all can give whether rich or poor, simple kindness, compassion, a warm smile and genuine concern for their well being. Then people will be more open with you and share what is in their hearts, thus causing you to be able to know the real; the only thing worth truly knowing in any of us.
#234. To: mehitable (#230)
Sure there are some good things that come out of christianity. What of it? If your only yardstick is to find ANY GOOD that has come out of something, then by that logic, Adoph Hitler should not be vilified because a there were good things that came out of his work.
Do you see anything good in Christianity, or any good that has come about because of it?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#235. To: tom007 (#232)
You said that, not me. Seem to be your style, make an outrageous claims and attribute them to someone else. Not the sign of an honest person. You COLULD have generated a useful dialogue here on the history truthfulness of the bible, but I don't think that was ever your intent. I did not say that YOU said that, Tom, I was simply illustrating the absurdity of your statement. I am very open to generating a useful dialogue. I do not make an OUTRAGEOUS CLAIM when I say that the bible is a work of FICTION, not FACT. I do not make an OUTRAGEOUS CLAIM when I say that the bible has MANY inconsistencies, mistakes and inherent contradictions. I would love to have a USEFUL DIALOGUE on these topics. However, people like Red, Phaedrus, et al, are not interested in that. If you would like to have a USEFUL DIALOGUE on these topics with me, please, feel free, I welcome it. (did you find any scotch last night?)
and not a true history of anything. oes that mean that we should also view the work of Tom Clancy as being the work of GOD?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#236. To: Phaedrus (#233)
Tom... PHAEDRUS is the one making outrageous claims... I never said I was an atheist a marxist or anti-christian, nor am I misled. However, Phaedrus just slung all that mud at me in an OUTRAGEOUS fashion. Yet, I don't see you castigating him for his actions. Phaedrus LAUGHINGLY states that he feels no need to seek agreement from others, but he can not stop himself from attacking me at every opportunity simply because it appears that I might DISAGREE with him.
Atheist/Marxist sort, a rabid anti-Christian. He is misled.I am stating clearly who and what he is for all to see -- and he IS seeking to inflict his delusions on the rest of us. My manner is direct so that there can be no mistaking the message, bearing always in mind that we here are dealing solely with words on a screen posted anonymously.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#237. To: Zipporah (#231)
This is a ridiculous argument.. Zip, old chum, Why is this a ridiculous argument? Both Tom Clancy's novel and the bible are works of fiction. It is a direct parallel. Please explain why it is a ridiculous argument, and we can engage in a thoughtful discourse on the matter. Thanks! (p.s. how do you get pictures to post in the threads?)
Certain statements in Tom Clancy's "Clear And Present Danger" are also historically accurate. Does that mean that we should also view the work of Tom Clancy as being the work of GOD?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#238. To: Feynman Lives! (#234)
Tell me what they are.
Sure there are some good things that come out of christianity.
#239. To: Feynman Lives! (#237)
Both Tom Clancy's novel
and the bible are works of fiction. It is a direct parallel. Please explain
why it is a ridiculous argument, and we can engage in a thoughtful discourse on
the matter. It is a false premise.. it would be as
saying.. peaches are a fruit, apples are a fruit therefore, peaches are apples.
Why is this a ridiculous argument?
.
.
.
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