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Title: Can Christ Followers Save The World From Christians
Source:
We Hold These Truths
URL Source: http://www.whtt.org/index.php?news=2&id=709
Published: Feb 6, 2006
Author: Charles E. Carlson
Post Date: 2006-02-15 00:09:52 by Red Jones
Keywords: Christians, Followers, Christ
Views: 4018
Comments: 491
Can Christ Followers save the world from Christians Charles E. Carlson Feb 06, 2006 Why all the bad news? The news stories in the world press, from South Africa to Norway, are incredibly negative about the USA. It was not always that way. Once, not long ago, most press was good to the USA. Our generations of military and tourists have been treated like liberators in Germany and Japan, countries we helped to destroy and then rebuilt. But no more, “America” is mud. This letter is not for everyone. Some already recognize the answer, but many still deny that the USA has become both the awful predator, and the world’s engine of monetary dilution. Less anyone thinks this writer is causing America’s image problem we add these words from a pretty good President, Theodore Roosevelt, who was also a decorated military officer: "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President or any other public official, save to the extent in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country.” "In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth - whether about the president or anyone else - save in the rare case where this would make known to the enemy information of military value which would otherwise be unknown to him." -Theodore Roosevelt Jesus gave us parables to help us understand his lessons. We follow his example with a parable about a man and the pet he loves and think he controls, which we liken to our government. This man discovers, to his horror and dismay, that his family dog has become a nighttime marauder, a predator, slipping out of the yard and pillaging the community, killing other pets and threatening pedestrians, and then jumping back into the backyard to sleep it off. What should the man do: 1) Feed the dog more and hope he will stay home? 2) Build a higher fence, cement-in the yard and put double locks on every access? (3) Ignore the problem? (4) Put the dog to sleep before someone is hurt? The pet owner could try the second choice (2), if he has the patience and money, but chances are he will not sleep well at night. It is his responsibility to stop the crimes, even if it means he has to destroy his own dog. It is not up to the police to solve the crime, nor is it up to the neighbors to correct it. In truth, he should do it himself because he is responsible, not the taxpayers who pay for the animal shelter. Similarly, it is up to the most responsible Americans to correct criminal acts against its world neighbors, and if we do not then the blood of the USA’s every crime is on our hands. It is not good enough to say, "Oh, this is a great place to live...our standard of living is the envy of the world...even if we do make some mistakes." It is not our place to recite all the wrongs of our government, we would never finish, nor do we defend any other government for it murderous faults. All are corrupt to some degree. We do defend the right to life of our neighbors, as described in our own Declaration of Independence. Life itself is a gift from God...this is not (for followers of Christ) a subjective, take it or leave it observation, it is an absolute. A friend and supporter recently called to ask me if I might tone down what he considered my obvious favoritism toward the Palestinian people, whom we have come to call the Philistines. He told me I sound so biased that someone who did not know me might think "they are paying me." In fact, it is people like my caller who is supporting We Hold These Truths, so we listen. My reply was: Thanks, but I cannot help what I say or the passion that shows through. I have been to the land of the Philistines and seen. Now I am their champion as long as they are suppressed by our own government. Our government is the marauding dog. I told my friend I would try to do a better job of explaining my bias, but I must not stop defending the innocent blood that is being shed. This is not to say the Philistines, or their current leaders, Hamas, are perfect, nor to deny they have their criminal element, which they do have. I told a beleaguered Univerisity class the same thing when I stood among them in Gaza City, but it is our government. not theirs, that is the problem. I have but one point to make. God does not “Will” that this great land become the predator of the world. He expects us to be the good stewards of what we are given. We can stop the marauding animal in our back yards if we will allow God to help us. And, if God does not help us, we need not worry about it, for it should now be obvious to most that we cannot overcome the mass of evil power loosed on the world by our own strength alone. Our “predator” inside our gates has become a "King Kong behemoth. We can succeed only if we do it God’s way, else we will fail. Abraham Lincoln may have later broken his own rules, but he was dead right when he stated in 1848: “Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and form a new one that suits them better.” It seem logical thta God's way is to correct His followers As we have said over and over again and say now, the self-styled Christian Zionist churches, with some 70 million under their influence, are the logical answer. We call them Scofieldized churches, others call them Dispensational, or lately Christian Zionists, whatever name you call them, they are the enablers of the monster on the loose in the world. It is Scofieldized churches that feed it; it is they who left the gate ajar at night, and they taught the marauder to vault the highest fence. They hatched a logic and theology that enables ethnic cleansing in the Mideast. Only the Scofieldized church, among all the major religions in the world, believes the acts of the nighttime marauder are Godly, and therefore, encourages it. In America the members of the Scofieldized churchs are the salt of the earth, the good neighbors we all want, the famliy poeple who care, but they are horrible and criminaly misled and they must be salvaged from God professors to Jesus Christ's followers. Scofildized Christian Zionists simply refuse to see the blood and torn bodies of victims. One of the Ten Commandments that God is said to have given to Moses is: "You shall not [no, never] take the name of the Lord your God in vain." This is exactly what the Scofieldized churches do today by supporting in God’s name that which God abhors, the spilling of innocent blood. Each one allows the abuses that Jesus denied and decried. He said to the Pharisees, "you will not enter into heaven, and you block the way of anyone who would enter." Jesus could have been speaking to the pastors today. What is needed is men who will use any tactic that is legal, moral and Godly to reach into the evangelical church and paint the blood of the victims on its doorways where they cannot overlook it. This is the mission of Pharisee Watch and Project Strait Gate. And how do we achieve such a feat? God’s churches, if they are of God, should be the salt of the earth, but these millions have lost their savor, and therefore, are: "fit only to be trodden under the feet of men." But they can change…most of We Hold These Truth's advisors did. Each Christian Zionist at some point lost his senses in the shouting crowd; they will regain their senses slowly, one by one, church by church…with our/your help. This is our agenda. Start by watching our one hour presentation, with your friends, right on your computer, or you may buy it for your TV: Our best tool to help you teach, view it free: Why Christian-Zionist cannot work for peace, Interactive fully guided free audio/video.
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#65. To: Diana, Feynman Lives! (#59)
Hemp was one of the FOUNDATIONS of the early US economy. How times have changed...
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
Would you kindly explain to me how I spinned it and which direction I spun it towards?
What are you, crazy???? All around me here in Colorado Springs are Zorastianst's Temples, and Celtic religions. And then there's the cannibals.
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
Again, if you READ the the thread, that is asked and answered. You get no points for being lazy.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman thank-you for those bible verses in #17. I enjoyed reading them. fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom.
OK Mr polite, I'll do it once.
Sure, You failed to understand the crux of the discussion and then you made comments that didn't relate to the discussion. Pretty simple.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I think I'll drop out of this argument too, it's impossible to reason with someone who only insults, bobs, spins, weaves and distorts. It's a waste of time to try to reason with someone who does not intend on being reasonable. Reminds me much of BAC or one of his gang. They/he are masters at that sort of thing.
Red, you want some more bible verses to read? You never got done reading the ones I showed you that PROVES that the bible is pornographic and, according to you, ALL who read the bible are GAY.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman oh please, Phoney-Man. that is a laugh coming from you.
she did? i obviously missed that. the distinction i was referring to specifically is the distinction she made between the US Government and America.
Sure, You failed to understand the crux of the discussion and then you made comments that didn't relate to the discussion. Pretty simple. Enter Screen Names of recipients separated by commas or semicolons. O what crappola, RF. Diana made perfectly good, thoughtful, remarks on the subject, better than many you did. Your schtick is wearing thin.
there is no fruit worth consuming that you offer. so, it is true, I did not read those verses that you cited. I am aware that there are racey sections of the bible. You've taught me nothying.
That is rational.
True, but there were no hippies to smoke it in those days. They made rope out of it for a while and then it just went away.
wise decision Miss Diana. the Phoney-Man is like BAC too. He loves homosexual themes. He loves porn themes. He loves to ridicule the bible and will spend huge amounts of time and effort doing it. etc. etc. etc.
Arguments have to be palatable now? I thought that they just had to be well founded and/or defensible with facts. I don't recall the last time I was told by a judge that my case was being dismissed because my argument was not PALATABLE. How do you have a palatable argument with people who put their stock in ghosts and goblins that even Scooby Doo wouldn't bother to be afraid of. If you felt I was impolite, Tom, then I sincerely apologize. Please accept my heartfelt sorrow over your upsetting incident here.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Congratulations, that's shot right to #1 on my list of all time most boorish dreck.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
And just what WAS the subject, Tom? Let us now see if you were paying attention.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman We're #1! We're #1! We're #1!
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Possible or even likely that the disruptors are out in mass on the pol forums to distract attention from the UTTERLY disastorious actions that have been committed by the US at the instigation of the Israelies.
This reminds me of Clinton saying it depends on what definition you want to use for the word "is". Then from what you have said, a foundation is something present only in the very beginning, when say a country is being formed. Laws are drawn up, ideals set up, then time goes by and things DO indeed change. So if you are claiming that during the set-up of this country, during it's "foundation" period, it was not deemed that the US would be a Christian nation, then I suspect that is correct, as I stated before that the country was set up with the idea of freedom of religion and separation of church and state. But whether you or anyone else likes it or not, culturally it did become a Christian nation by and large.
Red, YOU were the one who posted the THREAD on HOMOSEXUAL PORN THEMES... not me. I just showed you that the bible was PORNOGRAPHIC, and that, ACCORDING TO YOU, anyone who reads the bible on a regular basis is GAY.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman GEEEZ, you have nearly outdone your self. I think the real RF wants his name back.
So if you are claiming that during the set-up of this country, during it's "foundation" period, it was not deemed that the US would be a Christian nation, then I suspect that is correct BINGO! Wow, you actually have FINALLY caught on... perhaps I should give you a cookie! What the U.S. became CULTURALLY 200 years later was NOT part of the discussion in any way, matter, shape, or form.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman You are an astoundingly ignorant simpleton. Even if you don't believe in the theology of the Bible, which is fine with me, you should have some small sense to regard it as the history of a people, who, like them or not have survived for 5000 years, primarily because they follow the dictates, laws and guidance of this book you deride. What the Bible actually IS, you pathetic moron, is the collected experiences of a race of people and the solutions to the various problems of life that they devised - problems like defining themselves as a people, encouraging their growth and survival, building families and communities, what kinds of food to grow and eat, what legal and political systems worked for them. If you actually had WISDOM you would be able to see the Bible in this light, and realize that there is still much that we can learn from the distilled experience of its chroniclers, in our own vague and uncertain days. We, as a people, are no longer able to solve the problems that life presents us - we are paralyzed. This was not true of the people of the Bible - like them or not, they were (and are) successful. Profit from the lesson.
Dr Feynman would agree with me, based upon the principles that Red and his buddy set forth, that the bible is pornographic. He found the concept of religion to be laughable.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I like the bible verses you put forth and agree with some things you say. I am one who thinks that bible prophecy that speaks of babylon in the end-times is speaking about the people or system or kingdom that rules over us today. I think that the United States is occupied by babylon. I don't want to say that America is babylon. But I will say that Babylon is here. and it is using our country as a geographical base. I am definitely like you in that I think our nation plays a very special role in bible prophecy. do you think that babylon is here today in america? what do you think?
That's right. It wasn't until after abolition that coloreds started tempting white women with their devil weed.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
I deconstructed one of his posts on an earlier Evolution thread, buried him, and he can do no better that call me a sophist, a label I pinned on him, accurately, several times on that thread. The difference is that he IS a supercilious sophist, a fool Atheist, who hates Christianity and would say anything however twisted to trash it, and I am not. I am pro-Christian but not formally a Christian. Words come off Feckless's keyboard, not truth. He is a blight on 4um, a sophomoric blabbermouth. He will bury you in worthless words, which are all he has. His attacks on Christianity disgust me and he invents history to support them.
The oldest reference to hemp that I am aware of is from a radio NPR thinggy, that stated a Jewish women's toumb was excavated c. 800BC? that contained a pipe and hemp -' she died in childbirth, and numerous sources indicate hemp being a good analgesic to have around in a situation like this. Herodotus positively mentions it with the westren Scythicans c. 465 bc., which I believe is the absolute first mention in extent literature.
Sure, but it is NOT a factual book, it is not the true and perfect word of god. Sure it is a great GUIDEBOOK... much like the Boy Scout Handbook is a great guidebook. Some of the concepts are good... be nice, be relaxed and groovy, try not to kill people unless ya got a good reason, ... stuff like that... Great as a guidebook and a book of mythology... sure.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Do you get points for being arrogant? Of course I read the whole thread. I give you points for trying to throw people off guard.
By the time they figured out what to do with the stuff it was illegal.
Actually I think Fleghman Lives serves a purpose in that he helps us, through his simplistic, half-witted rantings, to hone and sharpen our own ideas and arguments. Otherwise, most of the posters on 4 are intelligent, sane people who can debate, but we also have pretty similar opinions on most things. Sometimes it's good to have someone who is obviously...different...so we can better understand and communicate what we believe.
LOL... did you? Perhaps you dreamed this, because it didn't happen on THIS thread. I don't hate christianity nor am I an atheist, I am merely more educated on these subjects than you are. Now, please show me where you think you buried me... ROFL
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman How do you have a palatable argument with people who put their stock in ghosts and goblins that even Scooby Doo wouldn't bother to be afraid of. If you felt I was impolite, Tom, then I sincerely apologize. Please accept my heartfelt sorrow over your upsetting incident here. You are hanging yourself.
You sound like a particularly dim witted 12 year old. I assume your parents are passed out on the couch again.
What are you talking about, Tom?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman The foundations of the US.
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#66. To: Feynman Lives! (#62)
You took the conversation out of context and tried to spin it in a direction that was not being discussed.
#67. To: Diana (#59)
However I maintain that the US traditionally and culturally has been a majority Christian country
#68. To: christine (#61)
#69. To: Diana (#63)
Okey I'll bite, are you referring to the remarks of the founding fathers?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#70. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#17)
#71. To: Feynman Lives! (#62)
Next time, try to stay WITH the conversation, or start a NEW thread for your own kooky ideas.
#72. To: Diana (#66)
Would you kindly explain to me how I spinned it and which direction I spun it towards?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#73. To: tom007, Feynman Lives!, christine (#60)
OK I am good with that, as a base. I just do not get why you seem to need to belittle any one who does not totally agree with you. It's does not make your arguments palatable, and does nothing but provoke those whom you might have had a dialogue with.
#74. To: Red Jones (#70)
thank-you for those bible verses in #17. I enjoyed reading them
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#75. To: Feynman Lives! (#15)
I see that you have NOTHING substantive to offer in your defense of your mythological beliefs...
#76. To: Feynman Lives!, AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#64)
With all due respect, he just got done ADMITTING that the bible is NOT a work of fact
#77. To: Feynman Lives!, diana (#72)
Would you kindly explain to me how I spinned it and which direction I spun it towards?
#78. To: Feynman Lives! (#74)
You never got done reading the ones I showed you
#79. To: Diana (#73)
It's a waste of time to try to reason with someone who does not intend on being reasonable.
#80. To: Dakmar (#65)
Hemp was one of the FOUNDATIONS of the early US economy. How times have changed...
#81. To: Diana (#73)
I think I'll drop out of this argument too
#82. To: tom007 (#60)
It's does not make your arguments palatable, and does nothing but provoke those whom you might have had a dialogue with.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#83. To: Feynman Lives! (#62)
You are free to maintain whatever you wish, but you are incorrect about this nation.
#84. To: tom007 (#77)
Diana made perfectly good, thoughtful, remarks on the subject,
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#85. To: Dakmar (#83)
Congratulations, that's shot right to #1
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#86. To: All, diana (#79)
#87. To: Feynman Lives!, tom007 (#58)
So, you see, the FOUNDATION of a country can NOT change. The direction of that country can, but not the FOUNDATION.
#88. To: Red Jones (#81)
He loves homosexual themes. He loves porn themes
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#89. To: Feynman Lives! (#74)
You never got done reading the ones I showed you that PROVES that the bible is pornographic
#90. To: Diana (#87)
Then from what you have said, a foundation is something present only in the very beginning, when say a country is being formed. Laws are drawn up, ideals set up, then time goes by and things DO indeed change.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#91. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#53)
#92. To: tom007 (#89)
I think the real RF wants his name back
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#93. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#16)
#94. To: ... (#80)
True, but there were no hippies to smoke it in those days. They made rope out of it for a while and then it just went away.
#95. To: Diana, FecklessFeynman (#48)
But based upon his performance, why bother? He has nothing to offer but sophistry.
#96. To: ... (#80)
True, but there were no hippies to smoke it in those days. They made rope out of it for a while and then it just went away.
#97. To: mehitable (#91)
What the Bible actually IS, you pathetic moron, is the collected experiences of a race of people and the solutions to the various problems of life that they devised - problems like defining themselves as a people, encouraging their growth and survival, building families and communities, what kinds of food to grow and eat, what legal and political systems worked for them
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#98. To: Feynman Lives! (#69)
You get no points for being lazy.
#99. To: Dakmar (#94)
That's right. It wasn't until after abolition that coloreds started tempting white women with their devil weed.
#100. To: Phaedrus, all (#95)
#101. To: Phaedrus (#95)
I deconstructed one of his posts on an earlier Evolution thread, buried him
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#102. To: Feynman Lives! (#82)
rguments have to be palatable now? I thought that they just had to be well founded and/or defensible with facts. I don't recall the last time I was told by a judge that my case was being dismissed because my argument was not PALATABLE.
#103. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#97)
#104. To: tom007 (#102)
You are hanging yourself.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#105. To: Feynman Lives! (#84)
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