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Title: Can Christ Followers Save The World From Christians
Source:
We Hold These Truths
URL Source: http://www.whtt.org/index.php?news=2&id=709
Published: Feb 6, 2006
Author: Charles E. Carlson
Post Date: 2006-02-15 00:09:52 by Red Jones
Keywords: Christians, Followers, Christ
Views: 3937
Comments: 491
Can Christ Followers save the world from Christians Charles E. Carlson Feb 06, 2006 Why all the bad news? The news stories in the world press, from South Africa to Norway, are incredibly negative about the USA. It was not always that way. Once, not long ago, most press was good to the USA. Our generations of military and tourists have been treated like liberators in Germany and Japan, countries we helped to destroy and then rebuilt. But no more, “America” is mud. This letter is not for everyone. Some already recognize the answer, but many still deny that the USA has become both the awful predator, and the world’s engine of monetary dilution. Less anyone thinks this writer is causing America’s image problem we add these words from a pretty good President, Theodore Roosevelt, who was also a decorated military officer: "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President or any other public official, save to the extent in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country.” "In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth - whether about the president or anyone else - save in the rare case where this would make known to the enemy information of military value which would otherwise be unknown to him." -Theodore Roosevelt Jesus gave us parables to help us understand his lessons. We follow his example with a parable about a man and the pet he loves and think he controls, which we liken to our government. This man discovers, to his horror and dismay, that his family dog has become a nighttime marauder, a predator, slipping out of the yard and pillaging the community, killing other pets and threatening pedestrians, and then jumping back into the backyard to sleep it off. What should the man do: 1) Feed the dog more and hope he will stay home? 2) Build a higher fence, cement-in the yard and put double locks on every access? (3) Ignore the problem? (4) Put the dog to sleep before someone is hurt? The pet owner could try the second choice (2), if he has the patience and money, but chances are he will not sleep well at night. It is his responsibility to stop the crimes, even if it means he has to destroy his own dog. It is not up to the police to solve the crime, nor is it up to the neighbors to correct it. In truth, he should do it himself because he is responsible, not the taxpayers who pay for the animal shelter. Similarly, it is up to the most responsible Americans to correct criminal acts against its world neighbors, and if we do not then the blood of the USA’s every crime is on our hands. It is not good enough to say, "Oh, this is a great place to live...our standard of living is the envy of the world...even if we do make some mistakes." It is not our place to recite all the wrongs of our government, we would never finish, nor do we defend any other government for it murderous faults. All are corrupt to some degree. We do defend the right to life of our neighbors, as described in our own Declaration of Independence. Life itself is a gift from God...this is not (for followers of Christ) a subjective, take it or leave it observation, it is an absolute. A friend and supporter recently called to ask me if I might tone down what he considered my obvious favoritism toward the Palestinian people, whom we have come to call the Philistines. He told me I sound so biased that someone who did not know me might think "they are paying me." In fact, it is people like my caller who is supporting We Hold These Truths, so we listen. My reply was: Thanks, but I cannot help what I say or the passion that shows through. I have been to the land of the Philistines and seen. Now I am their champion as long as they are suppressed by our own government. Our government is the marauding dog. I told my friend I would try to do a better job of explaining my bias, but I must not stop defending the innocent blood that is being shed. This is not to say the Philistines, or their current leaders, Hamas, are perfect, nor to deny they have their criminal element, which they do have. I told a beleaguered Univerisity class the same thing when I stood among them in Gaza City, but it is our government. not theirs, that is the problem. I have but one point to make. God does not “Will” that this great land become the predator of the world. He expects us to be the good stewards of what we are given. We can stop the marauding animal in our back yards if we will allow God to help us. And, if God does not help us, we need not worry about it, for it should now be obvious to most that we cannot overcome the mass of evil power loosed on the world by our own strength alone. Our “predator” inside our gates has become a "King Kong behemoth. We can succeed only if we do it God’s way, else we will fail. Abraham Lincoln may have later broken his own rules, but he was dead right when he stated in 1848: “Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and form a new one that suits them better.” It seem logical thta God's way is to correct His followers As we have said over and over again and say now, the self-styled Christian Zionist churches, with some 70 million under their influence, are the logical answer. We call them Scofieldized churches, others call them Dispensational, or lately Christian Zionists, whatever name you call them, they are the enablers of the monster on the loose in the world. It is Scofieldized churches that feed it; it is they who left the gate ajar at night, and they taught the marauder to vault the highest fence. They hatched a logic and theology that enables ethnic cleansing in the Mideast. Only the Scofieldized church, among all the major religions in the world, believes the acts of the nighttime marauder are Godly, and therefore, encourages it. In America the members of the Scofieldized churchs are the salt of the earth, the good neighbors we all want, the famliy poeple who care, but they are horrible and criminaly misled and they must be salvaged from God professors to Jesus Christ's followers. Scofildized Christian Zionists simply refuse to see the blood and torn bodies of victims. One of the Ten Commandments that God is said to have given to Moses is: "You shall not [no, never] take the name of the Lord your God in vain." This is exactly what the Scofieldized churches do today by supporting in God’s name that which God abhors, the spilling of innocent blood. Each one allows the abuses that Jesus denied and decried. He said to the Pharisees, "you will not enter into heaven, and you block the way of anyone who would enter." Jesus could have been speaking to the pastors today. What is needed is men who will use any tactic that is legal, moral and Godly to reach into the evangelical church and paint the blood of the victims on its doorways where they cannot overlook it. This is the mission of Pharisee Watch and Project Strait Gate. And how do we achieve such a feat? God’s churches, if they are of God, should be the salt of the earth, but these millions have lost their savor, and therefore, are: "fit only to be trodden under the feet of men." But they can change…most of We Hold These Truth's advisors did. Each Christian Zionist at some point lost his senses in the shouting crowd; they will regain their senses slowly, one by one, church by church…with our/your help. This is our agenda. Start by watching our one hour presentation, with your friends, right on your computer, or you may buy it for your TV: Our best tool to help you teach, view it free: Why Christian-Zionist cannot work for peace, Interactive fully guided free audio/video.
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#1. To: Red Jones (#0)
JESUS CHRIST ANNOUNCES THAT HE IS NOT COMING BACK! -WORLD NEWS- Jesus Christ, the Son of God, whose return has been eagerly awaited by Christians for two millennia, is never coming back to earth, the Messiah himself announced today. The Lord issued a surprisingly bitter statement to His followers explaining His decision. A transcript of that statement follows. FINAL MESSAGE TO HUMANITY To My followers: When I made My promise to return to the world and deliver you from evil, I fully intended to keep that promise. Sadly, however, humanity has made Me change My mind. You're not worth redeeming. I'm washing My hands of this disastrous experiment in intelligent life and free will. I was hoping you'd make some progress since the days when the Romans persecuted the Jews. But nothing has changed. You all still hate each other. You don't do much to feed the hungry, or shelter the homeless, or any of that other shit I told you to do. Why do you even pretend to care about My will? Why do you pray and sing hymns and read the Bible? Is it all just a charade to make you feel better about yourselves? Never mind. I know the answer to that. I've learned to hate your species for so many reasons. I can't stand your constant whining about your petty problems. I hate the way you adopt new slang words and catch phrases to try to 'out-hip' each other. I despise your bad table manners. Child pornography also kind of irks Me. From now on, I'm going to concentrate on other intelligent life forms. Or maybe Dad and I will start a whole new Creation. Before I do that, though, I want to share just a few of the reasons why you piss Me off. I mean, there are the obvious things, like violence and greed, but that's not what really gets Me. What really gets Me are the little things. Like the stupid ways you pretend to believe in Me. Christian rock. Tattoos with My name on them. And don't even get Me started on those fucking T-shirts. When you're not doing trivial things to show your devotion to Me, you're getting all bent out of shape over something pointless. Take 'animal rights.' My dad put animals on the planet to serve humanity. He gave you an enormous variety of creatures to do your work, to serve as your companions, and for you to eat. So now you've decided they have rights? And you attack people to defend those rights? Your ability to invent problems for yourselves never ceases to amaze Me. I think I could forgive your sins if you were going somewhere culturally. You really had something going back there in the Renaissance. But then you just ran out of creative steam. I realize it gets harder and harder to think of anything original...but paintings of soup cans? That was a few decades ago; nowadays it's even worse. Someone throws crap at a wall and you act like it's profound. Another thing that makes Me mad are all the bullshit religious myths. Stigmatas, for example. Only one person got a real stigmata, and that's Me. The whole stigmata phenomenon just goes to show that you people can't stand letting someone else get all the attention. You've got all this nonsense occupying your thoughts when you should be concentrating on more important things. Like not destroying the world, for example. In case you haven't noticed, greenhouse gases are threatening to make the planet uninhabitable, and the kooks of the world are starting to get their hands on nuclear weapons. Guess you can't be bothered with that when American Idol is on. Think I'm going to save you from self-annihilation? Think again. When you obliterate yourselves, don't come crying to Me. Yours truly, Jesus Christ Office of Redemption and Salvation P.S. I want My shroud back. "There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman
We Hold These Truths is a really good site. Carlson has a wonderful ministry.
It kinda disgusts me when Christianity, which just happens to be the foundation of our way of life, of Western Science and Civiliation, is ridiculed and attacked. Some modicum of respect would seem due.
One would think. Fortunately; most Christians aren't predisposed toward arson.
I make the distinction between the churched and Christians. It really disgusts me that Christianty is dragged down by the dumb-as-dirt warmongering hypocrites who play politics with religion. Where are the born-again repukes who have seen the evil done by national church leaders and repulicans in Congress and must speak against their corrupt anti-christian, anti-constitutional and just plain anti-decency evil polices of Bush&Co?
Phaedrus, "The foundation of our way of life?" Whose way of life would that be? America was not founded on Christianity. If you mistakenly think that it was, perhaps you need to look at the Constitution and study more about the people who wrote the document. "Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear." "Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes." "The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills." Well... LOOKEE THERE... one of our FOUNDING FATHERS agrees not with you... but with me. Such extremists like you try mistakenly to claim that U.S. law has religious roots. Yet the Constitution contains NO REFERENCE to a deity. The Declaration of Independence contains NOT ONE WORD on religion, basing its authority on the shocking idea that power is derived from ordinary people, which challenged European traditions of rule by divine right and/or heavenly authority. (Remember, George III was king of England and anointed head of its church.) The words “Nature’s God,” the “Creator” and “divine Providence ” do appear in the Declaration. But in its context — an era, and author, Thomas Jefferson, that celebrated science and the Enlightenment — these words are analogous to our contemporary phrase “life force.” Jerry Falwell notoriously blamed 9/11 on “pagans, abortionists, feminists, gays and lesbians … [and other groups] who have tried to secularize America.” He’s a bit late: In 1798, Alexander Hamilton accused Jefferson of a “conspiracy to establish atheism on the ruins of Christianity” in the new republic. Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence William Boykin thunders, “We’re a Christian nation.” But the 1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams — proclaims: “The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian Religion.” Let's all say that together, shall we? THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED NO THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION. Imagine that. "There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman
LOL... Sorry about the misquote... "THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION."
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." Richard Feynman "THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED NO THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." 1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams It kinda disgusts me when Christianity, which just happens to be the foundation of our way of life, of Western Science and Civiliation, is ridiculed and attacked. Some modicum of respect would seem due.
Phaedrus, Sorry to be the one to break the TRUTH to you, but Christianity IS NOT the foundation of our way of life. From our first president, this is shown to be the case. The false image of Washington as a devout Christian was fabricated by Mason Locke Weems, a clergyman who also invented the cherry-tree fable and in 1800 published his Life of George Washington. Washington, a Deist and a Freemason, never even ONCE mentioned the name of Jesus Christ in any of his thousands of letters, and pointedly referred to divinity as “It.” Whenever he (rarely) attended church, Washington always deliberately left before communion, demonstrating disbelief in Christianity’s central ceremony. It’s also a commonly stated error that U.S. law, based on English common law, is thus grounded in Judeo-Christian tradition. Yet Jefferson (writing to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814 ) noted that common law “is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England …about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century. …We may safely affirm (though contradicted by all the judges and writers on earth) that Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.” Again, Phaedrus, sorry to burst your bubble and all, but you needed to be told.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Sorry to contradict you but Christianity IS the foundation of our way of life.
The situation is actually worse from your "point-of-view": All of Western Civilization is founded upon Christianity, which is not news to most of us. You would like to rewrite history, I'm sure.
Now Phaedrus, I showed you PROOF to the contrary. Please support your unsubstantiated statement. Thank you.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Phaedrus, You might want to consider, before you make a bigger fool of yourself, that Greece is considered the foundation of western civilization because their art, philosophy, science, political ideas etc went on to spread throughout Europe and many places around the globe. Now, the Greeks did not wake up one day and say, "why don't we create western civilization," but they sure as hell WEREN'T christians.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman It kinda disgusts me when Christianity, which just happens to be the foundation of our way of life, of Western Science and Civiliation, is ridiculed and attacked. Some modicum of respect would seem due.
Phaedrus, I see that you have NOTHING substantive to offer in your defense of your mythological beliefs... So, I will RESTATE this for you, as it applies to the central point of your myth. You might want to consider, before you make a bigger fool of yourself, that Greece is considered the foundation of western civilization because their art, philosophy, science, political ideas etc went on to spread throughout Europe and many places around the globe. Now, the Greeks did not wake up one day and say, "why don't we create western civilization," but they sure as hell WEREN'T christians.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman You are right...the US government was not founded on Christianity. It was founded on Judeo-FreeMasonry. THE MASONIC NEW WORLD ORDER http://watch.pair.com/mason.html America, on the other hand is another story, and I've explained it here more than once. Ezekiel 34:13; Micah 4; Psalm 2, etc. etc. The whole Bible is fulfilled in Jesus Christ and being fulfilled in America. God raised us up to destroy the "wisdom" of the "Greeks". Zec 9:13 When I have bent Judah for me, filled the bow with Ephraim, and raised up thy sons, O Zion, against thy sons, O Greece, and made thee as the sword of a mighty man. http://www.bluelett erbible.org/kjv/Zec/Zec009.html#13 Who is "Greece"? Here's a hint: Amo 8:14 — They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.
The Bible says with God's help, we can, and we will: http://www.blueletterb ible.org/kjv/Mic/Mic004.html
Yet... Poor Misguided Phaedrus lives under the mistaken notion that we were...
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Careful, Horsie... The bible says a LOT of things... and many of them directly contradict one another... Ya don't want to drag that handbook into this conversation.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Blasphemy. He will appear to our joy.
Do you really want to play this game? I can show you how foolish the bible truly is, filled with inherent contradictions. Careful, little horsie... you have strayed a little too far from your stable...
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman lol- I wonder why! "......Chapter LXXII.-Passages Have Been Removed by the Jews from Esdras and Jeremiah. And I said, "I shall do as you please. From the statements, then, which Esdras made in reference to the law of the passover, they have taken away the following: `And Esdras said to the people, This passover is our Saviour and our refuge. And if you have understood, and your heart has taken it in, that we shall humble Him on a standard, and271 thereafter hope in Him, then this place shall not be forsaken for ever, says the God of hosts. But if you will not believe Him, and will not listen to His declaration, you shall be a laughing- stock to the nations.'272 And from the sayings of Jeremiah they have cut out the following: `I [was] like a lamb that is brought to the slaughter: they devised a device against me, saying, Come, let us lay on wood on His bread, and let us blot Him out from the land of the living; and His name shall no more be remembered.'273 And since this passage from the sayings of Jeremiah is still written in some copies [of the Scriptures] in the synagogues of the Jews (for it is only a short time since they were cut out), and since from these words it is demonstrated that the Jews deliberated about the Christ Himself, to crucify and put Him to death, He Himself is both declared to be led as a sheep to the slaughter, as was predicted by Isaiah, and is here represented as a harmless lamb; but being in a difficulty about them, they give themselves over to blasphemy. And again, from the sayings of the same Jeremiah these have been cut out: `The Lord God remembered His dead people of Israel who lay in the graves; and He descended to preach to them His own salvation.'274 Chapter LXXIII.-[the Words] "From the Wood" Have Been Cut Out of Ps. XCVI. "And from the ninety-fifth (ninety-sixth) Psalm they have taken away this short saying of the words of David: `From the wood.'275 For when the passage said, `Tell ye among the nations, the Lord hath reigned from the wood, 'they have left, `Tell ye among the nations, the Lord hath reigned.' Now no one of your people has ever been said to have reigned as God and Lord among the nations, with the exception of Him only who was crucified, of whom also the Holy Spirit affirms in the same Psalm that He was raised again, and freed from [the grave], declaring that there is none like Him among the gods of the nations: for they are idols of demons. But I shall repeat the whole Psalm to you, that you may perceive what has been said. It is thus: `Sing unto the Lord a new song; sing unto the Lord, all the earth. Sing unto the Lord, and bless His name; show forth His salvation from day to day. Declare His glory among the nations, His wonders among all people. For the Lord is great, and greatly to be praised: He is to be feared above all the gods. For all the gods of the nations are demons but the Lord made the heavens. Confession and beauty are in His presence; holiness and magnificence are in His sanctuary. Bring to the Lord, O ye countries of the nations, bring to the Lord glory and honour, bring to the Lord glory in His name. Take sacrifices, and go into His courts; worship the Lord in His holy temple. Let the whole earth be moved before Him: tell ye among the nations, the Lord hath reigned.276 For He hath established the world, which shall not be moved; He shall judge the nations with equity. Let the heavens rejoice, and the earth be glad; let the sea and its fulness shake. Let the fields and all therein be joyful. Let all the trees of the wood be glad before the Lord: for He comes, for He comes to judge the earth. He shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with His truth.' " Here Trypho remarked, "Whether [or not] the rulers of the people have erased any portion of the Scriptures, as you affirm, God knows; but it seems incredible." "Assuredly," said I, "it does seem incredible. For it is more horrible than the calf which they made, when satisfied with manna on the earth; or than the sacrifice of children to demons; or than the slaying of the prophets. But," said I, "you appear to me not to have heard the Scriptures which I said they had stolen away. For such as have been quoted are more than enough to prove the points in dispute, besides those which are retained by us,277 and shall yet be brought forward."...." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dialogue of Justin Philosopher and Martyr, with Trypho, a Jew http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01- 48.htm#P4699_1004419 Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
Wow... you undercut your own case for me. How nice of you. SO... if you freely admit that the bible is not TRUE, then why would you bother to quote it? You may just as well turn to your car's maintainence manual for guidance. Wait, we have actual proof that the info in your car manual IS true from cover to cover... so that is not a good example. What I mean to say is you would do better to turn to your favorite Flinstone cartoon character for guidance. There, that is on the same level of "factual material" as the bible. Either the bible is true as written, or it is just another work of fiction. Which is it, Horsie?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Chapter I.-Justin Justifies His Departure from Greek Customs. Do not suppose, ye Greeks, that my separation from your customs is unreasonable and unthinking; for I found in them nothing that is holy or acceptable to God. For the very compositions of your poets are monuments of madness and intemperance. For any one who becomes the scholar of your most eminent instructor, is more beset by difficulties than all men besides. For first they say that Agamemnon, abetting the extravagant lust of his brother, and his madness and unrestrained desire, readily gave even his daughter to be sacrificed, and troubled all Greece that he might rescue Helen, who had been ravished by the leprous546 shepherd. But when in the course of the war they took captives, Agamemnon was himself taken captive by Chryseis, and for Briseis' sake kindled a feud with the son of Thetis. And Pelides himself, who crossed the river,547 overthrew Troy, and subdued Hector, this your hero became the slave of Polyxena, and was conquered by a dead Amazon; and putting off the god-fabricated armour, and donning the hymeneal robe, he became a sacrifice of love in the temple of Apollo. And the Ithacan Ulysses made a virtue of a vice.548 And indeed his sailing past the Sirens549 gave evidence that he was destitute of worthy prudence, because he could not depend on his prudence for stopping his ears. Ajax, son of Telamon, who bore the shield of sevenfold ox- hide, went mad when he was defeated in the contest with Ulysses for the amour. Such things I have no desire to be instructed in. Of such virtue I am not covetous, that I should believe the myths of Homer. For the whole rhapsody, the beginning and end both of the Iliad and the Odyssey is-a woman. Chapter II.-The Greek Theogony Exposed. But since, next to Homer, Hesiod wrote his Works and Days, who will believe his drivelling theogony? For they say that Chronos, the son of Ouranos,550 in the beginning slew his father, and possessed himself of his rule; and that, being seized with a panic lest he should himself suffer in the same way, he preferred devouring his children; but that, by the craft of the Curetes, Jupiter was conveyed away and kept in secret, and afterwards bound his father with chains, and divided the empire; Jupiter receiving, as the story goes, the air, and Neptune the deep, and Pluto the portion of Hades. But Pluto ravished Proserpine; and Ceres sought her child wandering through the deserts. And this myth was celebrated in the Eleusinian fire.551 Again, Neptune ravished Melanippe when she was drawing water, besides abusing a host of Nereids not a few, whose names, were we to recount them, would cost us a multitude of words. And as for Jupiter, he was a various adulterer, with Antiope as a satyr, with Danae as gold, and with Europa as a bull; with Leda, moreover, he assumed wings. For the love of Semele proved both his unchastity and the jealousy of Semele. And they say that he carried off the Phrygian Ganymede to be his cup- bearer. These, then, are the exploits of the sons of Saturn. And your illustrious son of Latona [Apollo], who professed soothsaying, convicted himself of lying. He pursued Daphne, but did not gain possession of her; and to Hyacinthus,552 who loved him, he did not foretell his death. And I say nothing of the masculine character of Minerva, nor of the feminine nature of Bacchus, nor of the fornicating disposition of Venus. Read to Jupiter, ye Greeks, the law against parricides, and the penalty of adultery, and the ignominy of paederasty. Teach Minerva and Diana the works of women, and Bacchus the works of men. What seemliness is there in a woman's girding herself with armour, or in a man's decorating himself with cymbals, and garlands, and female attire, and accompanied by a herd of bacchanalian women? Chapter III.- Follies of the Greek Mythology. For Hercules, celebrated by his three nights,553 sung by the poets for his successful labours, the son of Jupiter, who slew the lion and destroyed the many-headed hydra; who put to death the fierce and mighty boar, and was able to kill the fleet man-eating birds, and brought up from Hades the three-headed dog; who effectually cleansed the huge Augean building from its dung, and killed the bulls and the stag whose nostrils breathed fire, and plucked the golden fruit from the tree, and slew the poisonous serpent (and for some reason, which it is not lawful to utter, killed Achelous, and the guest-slaying Busiris), and crossed the mountains that he might get water which gave forth an articulate speech, as the story goes: he who was able to do so many and such like and so great deeds as these, how childishly he was delighted to be stunned by the cymbals of the satyrs, and to be conquered by the love of woman, and to be struck on the hips by the laughing Lyda! And at last, not being able to put off the tunic of Nessus, himself kindling his own funeral pile, so he died. Let Vulcan lay aside his envy, and not be jealous if he is hated because he is old and club-footed, and Mars loved, because young and beautiful. Since, therefore, ye Greeks, your gods are convicted of intemperance, and your heroes are effeminate, as the histories on which your dramas are founded have declared, such as the curse of Atreus, the bed of Thyestes554 and the taint in the house of Pelops, and Danaus murdering through hatred and making Aegyptus childless in the intoxication of his rage, and the Thyestean banquet spread by the Furies.555 And Procne is to this day flitting about, lamenting; and her sister of Athens shrills with her tongue cut out. For what need is there of speaking of the goad556 of Oedipus, and the murder of Laius, and the marrying his mother, and the mutual slaughter of those who were at once his brothers and his sons? Chapter IV.- Shameless Practices of the Greeks. And your public assemblies I have come to hate. For there are excessive banquetings, and subtle flutes which provoke to lustful movements, and useless and luxurious anointings, and crowning with garlands. With such a mass of evils do you banish shame; and ye fill your minds with them, and are carried away by intemperance, and indulge as a common practice in wicked and insane fornication. And this further I would say to you, why are you, being a Greek, indignant at your son when he imitates Jupiter, and rises against you and defrauds you of your own wife? Why do you count him your enemy, and yet worship one that is like him? And why do you blame your wife for living in unchastity, and yet honour Venus with shrines? If indeed these things had been related by others, they would have seemed to be mere slanderous accusations, and not truth. But now your own poets sing these things, and your histories noisily publish them. Chapter V.- Closing Appeal. Henceforth, ye Greeks, come and partake of incomparable wisdom, and be instructed by the Divine Word, and acquaint yourselves with the King immortal; and do not recognise those men as heroes who slaughter whole nations. For our own Ruler,557 the Divine Word, who even now constantly aids us, does not desire strength of body and beauty of feature, nor yet the high spirit of earth's nobility, but a pure soul, fortified by holiness, and the watchwords of our King, holy actions, for through the Word power passes into the soul. O trumpet of peace to the soul that is at war! O weapon that puttest to flight terrible passions! O instruction that quenches the innate fire of the soul! The Word exercises an influence which does not make poets: it does not equip philosophers nor skilled orators, but by its instruction it makes mortals immortal, mortals gods; and from the earth transports them to the realms above Olympus. Come, be taught; become as I am, for I, too, was as ye are.558 These have conquered me-the divinity of the instruction, and the power of the Word: for as a skilled serpent-charmer lures the terrible reptile from his den and causes it to flee, so the Word drives the fearful passions of our sensual nature from the very recesses of the soul; first driving forth lust, through which every ill is begotten-hatreds, strife, envy, emulations, anger, and such like. Lust being once banished, the soul becomes calm and serene. And being set free from the ills in which it was sunk up to the neck, it returns to Him who made it. For it is fit that it be restored to that state whence it departed, whence every soul was or is.
SO... if you freely admit that the bible is not TRUE, then why would you bother to quote it? You may just as well turn to your car's maintainence manual for guidance. Wait, we have actual proof that the info in your car manual IS true from cover to cover... so that is not a good example. What I mean to say is you would do better to turn to your favorite Flinstone cartoon character for guidance. There, that is on the same level of "factual material" as the bible. Either the bible is true as written, or it is just another work of fiction. Which is it, Horsie? Horsie... You still have yet to answer this post... is the bible TRUE or fiction? If it is fiction, then your whole case falls apart once more, even with all the cutting and pasting you have been doing. SO.... Which is it?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Chapter I.-Justin Justifies His Departure from Greek Customs. Do not suppose, ye Greeks, that my separation from your customs is unreasonable and unthinking; for I found in them nothing that is holy or acceptable to God. For the very compositions of your poets are monuments ..... BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH..... See, here is the problem with your whole theory... The GREEKS were around and building their culture many CENTURIES before Jesus or the bible showed up on the scene. The civilization of ancient Greece flowered more than 2500 years ago but it influences the way we live today. SO... Christianity could not POSSIBLY have been the origins of our civilization... But do feel free to cut and past some more nonsense... you seem to be having fun and who am I to deprive you of joy?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman The Word of God is true as given by God. He foresaw those who hate Him would pervert His written Word, or why else would He have seen fit to make that statement? What was left is sufficient for those who are called, and chosen, and who have eyes to see and ears to hear. He said the rest would be blinded. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat013.html#13 http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Mat/13/13.html
WOW... MORE work that others did FOR you. Do you EVER write your own thoughts down for others to see? I can only IMAGINE what your book reports looked like in school. I will make this BIG so you wont miss it this time... YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION. Do you think that the bible is 100% FACT, or FICTION? "There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman lol! Jhn 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Jhn 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Jhn 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jhn 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Jhn 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Jhn 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad. Jhn 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. http://www.blueletterb ible.org/tsk_b/Jhn/8/58.html Jhn 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. So much for the "Romans did it; not us" finger of blame. [BTW, the Romans were Tribe of Dan, too.] They would have killed Him right then and there IF HE HAD ALLOWED THEM. He declared Himself in three persons, RIGHT THERE: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Jesus is God http://www.blueletterbi ble.org/tsk_b/Isa/9/6.html
Jesus is God ROFLMAO! So, you offer testimony from the book in question to show that the book is true? FINE... I can play this game as well... JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one. JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. WHOOPS... Jesus IS god... WAIT... no he isn't... LOL
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman APPARENTLY Jesus says a lot of things... most of them don't make sense... So...who is the father of Joseph? MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Can you read? If it were 100 per cent, WHY WOULD JESUS ADMONISH THE ONES WHO WOULD LATER CHANGE IT? It is not 100 per cent the way He gave it. The Jews changed it where it suited them, King James' translators changed it to suit their conspiracy against God [Psalm 2]. Read my lips: IT IS SUFFICIENT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE EYES TO SEE.
Ok... Ok... Ok... I will be nice... Let's get back to the basics... the ORIGINS of life according to the bible... The order of creation Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition: Day 1: Sky, Earth, light Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!) Day 3: Plants (VERY ODD THAT GOD CREATES THE PLANTS BEFORE CREATING THE SUN... they could NOT survive) Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids) Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.) Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time) Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did) Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good." The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes: Earth and heavens (misty) Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth) Plants Animals Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib) ---- Ya having fun yet?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman WOW... Something IN YOUR OWN WORDS... I am honored. SO... if the Bible is NOT 100% true... WHICH PORTIONS OF THE BIBLE ARE 100% TRUE AND HOW DO YOU KNOW? AND if you KNOW that the bible is a work of fiction, WHY do you PRETEND THAT IT IS TRUE?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one. JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. WHOOPS... Jesus IS god... WAIT... no he isn't... LOL Your hatred of God, like so many, blinds you. He appeared unto His own, over and over and over again, and they rejected Him. Jesus came to die to take the sins of the whole world upon His shoulders, so that those WHO BELIEVED would have everlasting life. He came as the Son of God, to bring the world back to Himself the Father. Read Isaiah 65. There are two Israels there. "My people" refers to Christians, which includes the FAITHFUL of the Old Testament. You aren't a Christian, obviously, so you aren't one of His people. That's why you do not understand, I guess. Matthew 1= genealogy of Joseph. Luke 3 = genealogy of Mary.
No more. You are lost. So be it. God's Word does not come back to Him void. Your loss is another's gain. My hands are clean....I shake the dust off my feet.
Culturally, traditionally the US has always been Christian. However recently Christianity is being bashed bigtime by the media and others. I don't have a beef in this argument as I don't think I'd really count as a Christian, but historically this has been a Christian country for instance with people having family bibles, saying their prayers, Christian weddings and funerals, and going to church on Sundays.
There are a several things that your Masonic article missed. It was obvioulsy not written by a Mason. First, it's easy to tell which Presidents were Masons as they make Masonic signs in their Presidential portraits. Quite a few were Masons. More than most people realize. Especially at the dawn of the Republic. Secondly, the Washington monument is a Masonic Ethiopian Pyrimid on a high pedestal. Your article missed this. Third, I've been associated with the organization on and off for many years. I've never met a single devil worshiper in my entire time there. Reading the history of the organization, it appears to be a vehicle for preserving the Enligtenment. There was a fear in the 17th - 19th centuries that a heavy handed king or pope could quash the Enlightenment. The secret society could preserve the ideas and spirit through such rough times. Most of the emphasis in the writings is on science and logic, not on theology - and no, failure to emphasize the Bible 24/7 does not automatically mean that you worship Satan. I can see how an organization filled with intelligent people, e.g., Franklin, Voltaire, Washington, etc., and dedicated to free thought would be scary to the average fundementalist Christian or Moslem. I think this is the root of the demonization you see from these groups.
I've wondered about something for quite a while. Do virtuous Mormons go to hell?
Luke 3 = genealogy of Mary. Yet they both talk about the FATHER OF JOSEPH, and he SOMEHOW is TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE? Yes, it is better that you shake the dust off yur feel and run the hell away... there is FAR too much LOGIC around here for your spiritual safety. And you didn't bother to address that Jesus says he IS god and that he ISN'T god... LOL... you best keep those feet of yours dust-free and leave this conversation alone...
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman That is a VERY different thing from saying that the U.S. was BASED upon christianity or that WESTERN CIVILIZATION was based upon christianity. VERY different.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman You mean the proof that some of the founding fathers were not Christian? That is not proof that the US has not traditionally been a Christian country. It certainly has not been a traditionally Hindu country. You really can't re-write history because you don't like parts of it, however many attempt to do just that. You don't have to like Christianity, but that doesn't mean this was never a Christian country.
And just WHAT were Jesus' last words? OOOH, I know... let us simply look to the bible and we can now the TRUE WORD OF THE LORD GIVEN TO US FROM GOD! LOL Lesseeeeeee... Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost." Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." Oh, what a wonderful book the bible is!
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman That is not proof that the US has not traditionally been a Christian country. It certainly has not been a traditionally Hindu country. You really can't re-write history because you don't like parts of it, however many attempt to do just that. You don't have to like Christianity, but that doesn't mean this was never a Christian country. GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I don't think so, because throughout western civilization, when Christianity took hold in Europe it became a way of life for the majority of people except for Jews who kept their religion, and the agnostics who have a hard time believing in things where there is no proof. When I was in school some years ago, I got suspended for a week because I said, "I swear to God!" I was highly repremanded and screamed at for taking the Lord's name in vain and was told I had to take a week off for blasphising Jesus. I didn't appreciate that much, and it was a public school. People can use all kinds of fancy words to confuse and misdirect and such, but it you take an honest look back at American history you will see Christianity played a large part in the lives of the majority population. People lived by Christian principles, and many of them abused Christianity, no doubt about that.
You might want to consider, before you make a bigger fool of yourself, Oh come on now. You're too bright to resort to name-calling. I think you can do better than that.
Western Civilization was already massively influenced by the culture of ancient greece long before before the cult of christianity started to grow.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I thought the argument was over whether the US has traditionally been a Christian country, not Ancient Greece. I'm sure you know that Catholic Church ruled with an iron fist throughout Europe for a few hundred years.
I can. But based upon his performance, why bother? He has nothing to offer but sophistry.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman See, this is where you need to go back and read what was said BEFORE jumping in when you don't know what is going on, Diana. He said "It kinda disgusts me when Christianity, which just happens to be the foundation of our way of life, of Western Science and Civiliation, is ridiculed and attacked." It is not about whether or not there are traditional values existent in socitety, it is about the FOUNDATION of our way of life, western science and civilization. Sorry, but christianity just ain't the right answer... sure it has influence now, but it was not the FOUNDATION of it all... not by a longshot.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman That is a very difficult question for anyone to answer, as there are so many versions of the bible. People will say this bible or that bible is evil, only read this one version, etc. If you read any other version it's not the word of God, then there is the Catholic bible which is altogether different. Also that Scofield bible which came out little over a hundred years ago is another version. It can get very confusing with all the different translations, parts added and parts taken away, though from what I can tell the general concensus is that the KJ version is the best, though he changed it around somewhat too.
I agree with that, this was suppose to be a country of religious freedom unlike Europe in times past. But culturally the US did morph into a Christian nation.
LOL No, that is a RIDICULOUSLY EASY question to answer. The bible is a work of FICTION that draws on a few loose facts. Much like a spy novel written by Tom Clancy, they use truths of the day to make the story readable. Except that Tom knows how to write. The bible is poorly written. VERY poorly written. It is so full of holes, lies and blatant contradictions, that if it were not considered a RELIGIOUS book, it would have no literary value whatsoever. STILL there are people today, people on this very FORUM I would wager, who feel that the bible is TRUE. LOL Now that is just sad...
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Not true. Yes, there is an undeniable christian thread to our societal structure, but that is a FAR cry from saying we are a CHRISTIAN nation. Furthermore, this is NOT what Phaedrus was talking about, you are OFF topic with your point (which is also loosely made).
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman So what was?
Tom, IF you had read the thread, you would have seen where this question was ALREADY answered. If you read the entire thread and STILL can't get your answer, THEN come back to me.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman But foundations change, you can have a country that lays down rules as it's foundation, but as times go by things always tend to change. I believe the foundation was for the US to be a free country with separation of church and state and freedom of religion along with rights for citizens. Those foundations were laid down a long time ago. However cultures do tend to change with time, look at us now, our values are very different than they were even 100 years ago. Foundations are just that, a platform of idealistic ideas which tend to disintigrate/morph over time. I do think Christianity is on the wane, replaced by pornography and such.
Diana, With all due respect, I need to explain to you what the word FOUNDATION means in this context. foundation 1: the basis on which something is grounded; "there is little foundation for his objections" So, you see, the FOUNDATION of a country can NOT change. The direction of that country can, but not the FOUNDATION.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Why does it have to be? I wasn't responding to Phaedrus, I was responding to you. I disagree that my point was loosely made, any civilization starts off with a foundation of ideas. As time goes by things change a lot. Look at Ancient Rome or any other civilization that lasted for any extended period of time. However I maintain that the US traditionally and culturally has been a majority Christian country, I am saying majority now because obviously not 100% of Americans have been or are now Christians.
OK I am good with that, as a base. I just do not get why you seem to need to belittle any one who does not totally agree with you. It's does not make your arguments palatable, and does nothing but provoke those whom you might have had a dialogue with. And then to claim you are polite, well, you are not, and don't even think of asking me to waste my time comming up with examples, as you can do it for yourself. Unless you cannot see it yourself. Which is what I am beginning to believe.
THE MASONIC NEW WORLD ORDER http://watch.pair.com/mason.html America, on the other hand is another story, and I've explained it here more than once. Ezekiel 34:13; Micah 4; Psalm 2, etc. etc. The whole Bible is fulfilled in Jesus Christ and being fulfilled in America. great distinction! well done.
Diana, You were responding to me OFF the topic of the conversation I was having with Phaedrus. You took the conversation out of context and tried to spin it in a direction that was not being discussed. You are free to maintain whatever you wish, but you are incorrect about this nation. Next time, try to stay WITH the conversation, or start a NEW thread for your own kooky ideas.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman So what was? Tom, IF you had read the thread, you would have seen where this question was ALREADY answered. If you read the entire thread and STILL can't get your answer, THEN come back to me. Okey I'll bite, are you referring to the remarks of the founding fathers?
But Christine, With all due respect, he just got done ADMITTING that the bible is NOT a work of fact, so what does it matter what is said in the book? Might as well quote from Shel Silverstein...
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Hemp was one of the FOUNDATIONS of the early US economy. How times have changed...
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
Would you kindly explain to me how I spinned it and which direction I spun it towards?
What are you, crazy???? All around me here in Colorado Springs are Zorastianst's Temples, and Celtic religions. And then there's the cannibals.
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
Again, if you READ the the thread, that is asked and answered. You get no points for being lazy.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman thank-you for those bible verses in #17. I enjoyed reading them. fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom.
OK Mr polite, I'll do it once.
Sure, You failed to understand the crux of the discussion and then you made comments that didn't relate to the discussion. Pretty simple.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I think I'll drop out of this argument too, it's impossible to reason with someone who only insults, bobs, spins, weaves and distorts. It's a waste of time to try to reason with someone who does not intend on being reasonable. Reminds me much of BAC or one of his gang. They/he are masters at that sort of thing.
Red, you want some more bible verses to read? You never got done reading the ones I showed you that PROVES that the bible is pornographic and, according to you, ALL who read the bible are GAY.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman oh please, Phoney-Man. that is a laugh coming from you.
she did? i obviously missed that. the distinction i was referring to specifically is the distinction she made between the US Government and America.
Sure, You failed to understand the crux of the discussion and then you made comments that didn't relate to the discussion. Pretty simple. Enter Screen Names of recipients separated by commas or semicolons. O what crappola, RF. Diana made perfectly good, thoughtful, remarks on the subject, better than many you did. Your schtick is wearing thin.
there is no fruit worth consuming that you offer. so, it is true, I did not read those verses that you cited. I am aware that there are racey sections of the bible. You've taught me nothying.
That is rational.
True, but there were no hippies to smoke it in those days. They made rope out of it for a while and then it just went away.
wise decision Miss Diana. the Phoney-Man is like BAC too. He loves homosexual themes. He loves porn themes. He loves to ridicule the bible and will spend huge amounts of time and effort doing it. etc. etc. etc.
Arguments have to be palatable now? I thought that they just had to be well founded and/or defensible with facts. I don't recall the last time I was told by a judge that my case was being dismissed because my argument was not PALATABLE. How do you have a palatable argument with people who put their stock in ghosts and goblins that even Scooby Doo wouldn't bother to be afraid of. If you felt I was impolite, Tom, then I sincerely apologize. Please accept my heartfelt sorrow over your upsetting incident here.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Congratulations, that's shot right to #1 on my list of all time most boorish dreck.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
And just what WAS the subject, Tom? Let us now see if you were paying attention.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman We're #1! We're #1! We're #1!
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Possible or even likely that the disruptors are out in mass on the pol forums to distract attention from the UTTERLY disastorious actions that have been committed by the US at the instigation of the Israelies.
This reminds me of Clinton saying it depends on what definition you want to use for the word "is". Then from what you have said, a foundation is something present only in the very beginning, when say a country is being formed. Laws are drawn up, ideals set up, then time goes by and things DO indeed change. So if you are claiming that during the set-up of this country, during it's "foundation" period, it was not deemed that the US would be a Christian nation, then I suspect that is correct, as I stated before that the country was set up with the idea of freedom of religion and separation of church and state. But whether you or anyone else likes it or not, culturally it did become a Christian nation by and large.
Red, YOU were the one who posted the THREAD on HOMOSEXUAL PORN THEMES... not me. I just showed you that the bible was PORNOGRAPHIC, and that, ACCORDING TO YOU, anyone who reads the bible on a regular basis is GAY.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman GEEEZ, you have nearly outdone your self. I think the real RF wants his name back.
So if you are claiming that during the set-up of this country, during it's "foundation" period, it was not deemed that the US would be a Christian nation, then I suspect that is correct BINGO! Wow, you actually have FINALLY caught on... perhaps I should give you a cookie! What the U.S. became CULTURALLY 200 years later was NOT part of the discussion in any way, matter, shape, or form.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman You are an astoundingly ignorant simpleton. Even if you don't believe in the theology of the Bible, which is fine with me, you should have some small sense to regard it as the history of a people, who, like them or not have survived for 5000 years, primarily because they follow the dictates, laws and guidance of this book you deride. What the Bible actually IS, you pathetic moron, is the collected experiences of a race of people and the solutions to the various problems of life that they devised - problems like defining themselves as a people, encouraging their growth and survival, building families and communities, what kinds of food to grow and eat, what legal and political systems worked for them. If you actually had WISDOM you would be able to see the Bible in this light, and realize that there is still much that we can learn from the distilled experience of its chroniclers, in our own vague and uncertain days. We, as a people, are no longer able to solve the problems that life presents us - we are paralyzed. This was not true of the people of the Bible - like them or not, they were (and are) successful. Profit from the lesson.
Dr Feynman would agree with me, based upon the principles that Red and his buddy set forth, that the bible is pornographic. He found the concept of religion to be laughable.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I like the bible verses you put forth and agree with some things you say. I am one who thinks that bible prophecy that speaks of babylon in the end-times is speaking about the people or system or kingdom that rules over us today. I think that the United States is occupied by babylon. I don't want to say that America is babylon. But I will say that Babylon is here. and it is using our country as a geographical base. I am definitely like you in that I think our nation plays a very special role in bible prophecy. do you think that babylon is here today in america? what do you think?
That's right. It wasn't until after abolition that coloreds started tempting white women with their devil weed.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
I deconstructed one of his posts on an earlier Evolution thread, buried him, and he can do no better that call me a sophist, a label I pinned on him, accurately, several times on that thread. The difference is that he IS a supercilious sophist, a fool Atheist, who hates Christianity and would say anything however twisted to trash it, and I am not. I am pro-Christian but not formally a Christian. Words come off Feckless's keyboard, not truth. He is a blight on 4um, a sophomoric blabbermouth. He will bury you in worthless words, which are all he has. His attacks on Christianity disgust me and he invents history to support them.
The oldest reference to hemp that I am aware of is from a radio NPR thinggy, that stated a Jewish women's toumb was excavated c. 800BC? that contained a pipe and hemp -' she died in childbirth, and numerous sources indicate hemp being a good analgesic to have around in a situation like this. Herodotus positively mentions it with the westren Scythicans c. 465 bc., which I believe is the absolute first mention in extent literature.
Sure, but it is NOT a factual book, it is not the true and perfect word of god. Sure it is a great GUIDEBOOK... much like the Boy Scout Handbook is a great guidebook. Some of the concepts are good... be nice, be relaxed and groovy, try not to kill people unless ya got a good reason, ... stuff like that... Great as a guidebook and a book of mythology... sure.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Do you get points for being arrogant? Of course I read the whole thread. I give you points for trying to throw people off guard.
By the time they figured out what to do with the stuff it was illegal.
Actually I think Fleghman Lives serves a purpose in that he helps us, through his simplistic, half-witted rantings, to hone and sharpen our own ideas and arguments. Otherwise, most of the posters on 4 are intelligent, sane people who can debate, but we also have pretty similar opinions on most things. Sometimes it's good to have someone who is obviously...different...so we can better understand and communicate what we believe.
LOL... did you? Perhaps you dreamed this, because it didn't happen on THIS thread. I don't hate christianity nor am I an atheist, I am merely more educated on these subjects than you are. Now, please show me where you think you buried me... ROFL
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman How do you have a palatable argument with people who put their stock in ghosts and goblins that even Scooby Doo wouldn't bother to be afraid of. If you felt I was impolite, Tom, then I sincerely apologize. Please accept my heartfelt sorrow over your upsetting incident here. You are hanging yourself.
You sound like a particularly dim witted 12 year old. I assume your parents are passed out on the couch again.
What are you talking about, Tom?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman The foundations of the US.
Wow... LOL YOU call ME a 12 year old and follow it up with that Oscar Wildean statement? How gleefully ironic, you mocked YOURSELF.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I don't think they had rolling paper in 1776. It's not their fault for not seeing the potential.
Oh... do tell... this should be most amusing...
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman That or a Dallas ambulance chaser.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
Wow, you actually have FINALLY caught on... perhaps I should give you a cookie! Diana! He "might " give you a cookie!!! GACK!
Of course I read the whole thread. I give you points for trying to throw people off guard. I get ten points each time I am arrogant, and a side of fries as well. However, Diana, many times people who simply don't know what is going on mistake those who are simply being RIGHT for being arrogant. I can see where you are making that mistake right now. :)
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman LMAO!!!! I think you've pulled his Cheney....
Works real well. ;))
You poor schmuck, you've never seen History of the World?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
GREAT film!
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman "Points" are for jerks. Honest dialouge is for peoples trying to achieve higher vision. FL is a detriment to this whole concept. But you know this.
When did they invent the Brownie if yur so smart.
Tom, If this discussion is not pleasing to you, then why do you partake of it? You are not forced to read this, nor to reply. Your actions make you complicit in the very thing that you are railing against.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Right before they invented the Girl Scout!
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman You're too kind. He spews cleverly worded streams of hate toward Christianity, having convinced himself there is no God and thus no truth, just words, and that they can mean whatever he wants them to mean. He is living proof that arrogance and ignorance are indeed synonymous.
IF you were an educated person, you would never have made this terribly ignorent statement. I know highly educated people, the more education you have, the more humble you become. And there is a VERY GOOD reason for that, RF. Care to guess what it is?? As you are SO educated and such.
I have some comments on that. First, it is god who judges, not us. and the bible admonishes us for thinking we know how he judges. we basically don't understand that process. Second, there is somewhere in the bible, I wish I knew where, but a preacher showed me once, that it says people not of the faith will judged according to how pious they are. If they are loyal to their consciences, consciences being made by god and telling gods will, then they will be judged positively. It says specifically people not of the faith can be judged positively just by being virtuous, pious, loyal to their consciences. It's fashionable to throw mud at mormons. I live in a city where a lot of mormons are. I work with a mormon. There's a lot of rotten preachers who advance idolatry, this is true in many 'christian' denominations and I'm sure in all 'religions'. many ordinary mormons believe in god. but I strongly distrust the hierarchy.
Now THAT is amusing.
And you may wish to reacquaint yourself with the definition of "education".
thank you for making this a big thread. A lot of people are reading bible verses because of you. A lot of people are thinking. This is good.
Well - perhaps - but I suspect from his arguments and tone, that he is very young and untried by life. He does not have much wisdom or understanding of people or he would not make such consistently patronizing and unappealing arguments. His posts are like being hit repeatedly with a day old mackerel. Maybe he can learn from the combined wisdom of the people on this forum. Certainly I have :)
Phaedrus, I am feeling the exact same way as you.
I never said that there is no god, and you have yet to refute my points that the bible is a work of fiction. Your 'words' are nothing more than that... just words. You have YET to prove otherwise.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman This is nonsense. I am not going away, you are too easy. Could have been a good discussion tho. But NOOOOO.
I don't know nothing about no Brownies, occifer!
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
And there is a VERY GOOD reason for that, RF. Care to guess what it is?? As you are SO educated and such. Let me correct - The more "truely educated you are" the more humble you will become. And their is a very profound reason for this.
Once again, you are mistaken. What is the "wisdom" that you feel I have not learned from this group? Please, tell me. I don't feel that this board is devoid of intelligence, far from it. I enjoy reading most of the threads on here. I take issue with those I have issue with, and leave supportive comments with ones I find agreeable. Plus, you have a great access to international newspapers here.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman How have any of your comments contributed to anything that could remotely resemble a good discussion?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman If this discussion is not pleasing to you, then why do you partake of it? You are not forced to read this, nor to reply. Your actions make you complicit in the very thing that you are railing against. "There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman "THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams You seem to uncomfortable with my comments - is their a gulag you want to send me to?
Now THAT is amusing. Phaedrus posted on 2006-02-15 22:49:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply It IS rich.
Sounds about right.
Red, I agree wholeheartedly with you on this point. The more people THINK about things, instead of just going with ridiculous ghost- story nonsense that was handed down to them by people who were too fightened to question it, the better society will be. I do hope that MANY people read this thread and think.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman that is so true. and I believe it says many times words to the effect of 'there are none who are so blind as he who will not see' the phoney-man gets so excited about the bible and loves to attack it. Everyone should note how powerful the bible is. If it is not so powerful, then why is it attacked by the phoney-man?
I couldn't have said it better myself.
A long time ago I asked you if acorns float. I think you are avoiding the question.
Tom, I am perfectly happy with you remaining with us for this thread. I was simply expressing my compassion towards your obvious level of discomfort with the way things were going here. It was my concern for your well-being that prompted my comments, that is all, sweetie... Grab a chair and relax! Get some scotch while you are at it.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman When you know that you don't know everything, then you'll know what's important. When you're able to admit you don't know everything, then you might have the beginnings of wisdom. You're way too arrogant. Perhaps you don't realize this, but your tone towards people in virtually everything you write is offensive and patronizing. Even if you might have a valid point in your argument, the way you write to people is too insulting for them to take you seriously. It is your seemingly earnest, yet offensive haranguing of all the posters here that lead me to believe you must be quite young or someone would have killed you by now in real life. Did you go to school or work at MIT, by the way?
There is no truth, there is only discussion, right Feyn?
I agree with you so strongly on this point. The jews who are faithful to the old testament are the same as the believing christians IMHO. the pharisee christians who believe in taking dominion over the government and killing muslims are a lot like the talmud believing jews who conspire against jesus.
I concede this point to you RF, completely. The discussion has become your dissing the honest posters with your signiture arrogence and pendatic voice. It makes one wonder if you , RF , really intended to have a dialouge at all.
ABSOLUTELY. There are phonies in all religions and those who use religion as a shield to grab power over the minds and property of others. And we know what's gonna happen to those folks....
when you read too much of what phoney-man says you want jesus to return so that he will separate the believers from the non-believers.
Grab a chair and relax! Get some scotch while you are at it. Don't be a phoney, OK? It stinks.
Mehitable, I already know that I don't know everything... MOST of the world is made up of things that we don't know we don't know. As for my "tone"... well, that is YOUR perception of my writing, there is no TONE in text. You create the tone in how you choose to read it. Watch, I will show you. "Mehiitable, I love you." NOW... what was my TONE in that statement? Was I angry, sarcastic, happy, or something else completely? Being as how YOU know my TONE, you can tell me, right? So... if you have a problem reading what I write, then it is on YOU, not me, sweetie. I am not at odds with all of the posters here, I expressed a concern with those I disagreed with, and now am placed in the position of having to defend myself from people like you who choose to descend upon me without knowing what was going on in the first place. I am not even UPSET with anyone here, for that matter. I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me, provided they can support their position. I am not even mad at you. Oh, and I am not quite young, snookumz, I am even over 30. Curious, why the question about MIT?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Wow, Tom... You have issues. Hey MEHITABLE!! Here we have another perfect example of someone reading a tone into something that was not intended by the writer. Tom COMPLETELY misread my statement and took it in the worst way possible. Oh well.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I'm just curious about MIT, that's all. As for your tone, I don't think you're the best judge of that. I think virtually every poster on this board would characterize you pretty consistently in a negative manner. Sometimes when people say you have BO, you should check your pits.
I heard it was the Mexicans who came to the US in the early part of the 20th century who brought their evil weed with them to corrupt the population and make the citizens go crazy. That's why they had to outlaw it.
Wow, Red, Talk about symmetry... the wheel has turned completely and we return to what STARTED Phaedrus on his little misguided rant. You say you want Jesus to return, eh? Well, I just read this in the news. JESUS CHRIST ANNOUNCES THAT HE IS NOT COMING BACK! -WORLD NEWS- Jesus Christ, the Son of God, whose return has been eagerly awaited by Christians for two millennia, is never coming back to earth, the Messiah himself announced today. The Lord issued a surprisingly bitter statement to His followers explaining His decision. A transcript of that statement follows. FINAL MESSAGE TO HUMANITY To My followers: When I made My promise to return to the world and deliver you from evil, I fully intended to keep that promise. Sadly, however, humanity has made Me change My mind. You're not worth redeeming. I'm washing My hands of this disastrous experiment in intelligent life and free will. I was hoping you'd make some progress since the days when the Romans persecuted the Jews. But nothing has changed. You all still hate each other. You don't do much to feed the hungry, or shelter the homeless, or any of that other shit I told you to do. Why do you even pretend to care about My will? Why do you pray and sing hymns and read the Bible? Is it all just a charade to make you feel better about yourselves? Never mind. I know the answer to that. I've learned to hate your species for so many reasons. I can't stand your constant whining about your petty problems. I hate the way you adopt new slang words and catch phrases to try to 'out-hip' each other. I despise your bad table manners. Child pornography also kind of irks Me. From now on, I'm going to concentrate on other intelligent life forms. Or maybe Dad and I will start a whole new Creation. Before I do that, though, I want to share just a few of the reasons why you piss Me off. I mean, there are the obvious things, like violence and greed, but that's not what really gets Me. What really gets Me are the little things. Like the stupid ways you pretend to believe in Me. Christian rock. Tattoos with My name on them. And don't even get Me started on those fucking T-shirts. When you're not doing trivial things to show your devotion to Me, you're getting all bent out of shape over something pointless. Take 'animal rights.' My dad put animals on the planet to serve humanity. He gave you an enormous variety of creatures to do your work, to serve as your companions, and for you to eat. So now you've decided they have rights? And you attack people to defend those rights? Your ability to invent problems for yourselves never ceases to amaze Me. I think I could forgive your sins if you were going somewhere culturally. You really had something going back there in the Renaissance. But then you just ran out of creative steam. I realize it gets harder and harder to think of anything original...but paintings of soup cans? That was a few decades ago; nowadays it's even worse. Someone throws crap at a wall and you act like it's profound. Another thing that makes Me mad are all the bullshit religious myths. Stigmatas, for example. Only one person got a real stigmata, and that's Me. The whole stigmata phenomenon just goes to show that you people can't stand letting someone else get all the attention. You've got all this nonsense occupying your thoughts when you should be concentrating on more important things. Like not destroying the world, for example. In case you haven't noticed, greenhouse gases are threatening to make the planet uninhabitable, and the kooks of the world are starting to get their hands on nuclear weapons. Guess you can't be bothered with that when American Idol is on. Think I'm going to save you from self-annihilation? Think again. When you obliterate yourselves, don't come crying to Me. Yours truly, Jesus Christ P.S. I want My shroud back. "There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman OK - I'm going to find some scotch, somewhere.
Queen Victoria used it to relieve the pains of her monthly womanly thing.
But sometimes no help from Jesus is required.
Wow, then the MUSLIMS must have backed the right horse, cuz THEY are the ones who are responding powerfully when someone makes so much as a CARTOON about their god!
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman DAMN - I just realized. Are we all really SO bored that we're spending all this time talking to Fleghman Lives?
Red, ya gotta a flask of Jonnie Walker?
Good call, and may I suggest a Mac 18, straight up, with a nice AVO #3 cigar?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Kinda Embaressing. Got any Scotch?
Yeah, and it's a good thing Teddy Roosevelt stopped Cuba from invading the Phillipines.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
Nah, just some rum...oh, and a bottle of Kahlua. Hey, we should think up some new drinks in honor of Dick Cheney and his latest calamity. I'm wondering what we'd put into a Dick on the Rocks?
DAMN - I just realized. Are we all really SO bored that we're spending all this time talking to Fleghman Lives? Mehitable... Apparently, it is because my ideas are so powerful. Because everyone should note how powerful my ideas are. If they were NOT so powerful, then WHY am I being attacked by all of you?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I would suspect this is totaly out of the range of what I am willng to pay for consumables
Ever heard of the phenomenon of the "runt of the litter"?
Lead shot?
Office of Redemption and Salvation P.S. I want My shroud back. You're not a serious person, Feyn, just some clueless kid with a keyboard. And that's not a compliment, Feyn. But don't take your stuff out into the world. There are those who will knock your block off. And for the record, this is not a personal threat, just an observation. You are incredibly offensive. By design? Certainly not by Intelligent Design.
So you are now saying that the bible is the runt of the litter? interesting....
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman heh heh heh....and maybe a quail feather.
With all due respect, he just got done ADMITTING that the bible is NOT a work of fact, so what does it matter what is said in the book? I did not. I said it may have been perverted in areas, but the vast majority of it is truth, for those who have eyes to see. Those who are called. Those who are chosen. Those who know and love God. Not those who hate Him. BTW, Jesus' last words were in the book of Revelation, chapter 22. Your twisting of the truth, and your obsession to make children of hell is indicative of an unclean spirit. Thomas Jefferson did not believe in Jesus Christ either, as you pointed out. Look at the United States he and the other so-called "Founding Fathers" left us. Only Patrick Henry, who was a Christian, predicted the hellhole we have today. That's why he wouldn't sign the constitution. Christine, Red Jones, Know what I think? I think the truth is getting out there, and they're trying to come up with a new angle. I predicted to my kids a month or two ago. Watch to see more and more of the "God is dead" or "God doesn't exist" routine. Right on schedule comes Feynman. America was most definitely founded by God. That cross that was planted by the first colonists at Cape Henry were a mustard seed. 86 percent of Americans consider themselves Christian. The problem is, as Cornwallis told George Washington, "A holy war will now begin against America....in 200 years her churches will be teaching the Jews' religion." That is what happened. The Judeo-Freemasons came in preaching "equality" and "freedom of religion" to get a big enough foothold to eventually destroy Christianity. It was all a lie. The Talmud teaches only "Jews" are men, and the rest are beasts. Therefore, when they say "all men are created equal", what they really meant was all JEWS are created equal. Christian Americans, who were for the most part, children of light, fell for all the lies the children of darkness fed them. It was not in the Christian to see the evil lurking like a serpent, waiting to strike. I think the churches could use a little more doses of reality. Drop off some of the following: http://noahide.com/xmas.htm [also Merry Christmas and OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!] [SEARCH] http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=19316 http://rense.com/general61/work.htm I have to wonder if some of the Baptist churches that were burned down were starting to "get it". I heard that a US flag was thrown on the lawn at one of them. That flag, I hate to tell you, is Masonic and antiChrist, especially the one with the gold fringe and eagle on top. Read the battle of the eagles at Ezekiel 17, and Matthew 15:13. This government is going down. Psalm 2. Micah 4. Those who are not with Christ, scatter abroad. Think of the parable of the ten virgins. "Not all who say Lord, Lord...will get in the door, but only those who do the will of my Father in heaven." War-mongers need not apply. Blessed are the peacemakers, for THEY shall be called the children of God. Matthew 5. Time for repentence. Not all will be saved. Particularly not those who refuse to enter the sheepfold, but also prevent others from entering. Better a millstone were around their neck.
Yeh, time to go.
OHHHHHH - NOW I understand... It's so bloody obvious. YOU are God. It was just whacking me in the face like a wet mackerel.
See ya latah :)
Phaedrus, While I do appreciate your concern, I shall not worry and keep on truckin' without regard for those who will knock my block off for daring to say that their belief in ghosts just MIGHT be unfounded. I am a VERY serious person, who wonders how and why any other SERIOUS person could put so much stock in a book that was so poorly written and factualy vacuous. Becuase I speak my mind, you feel people who believe the same way YOU do will become physically VIOLENT? WOW, that says VOLUMES about the instability of your belief system.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman no, but I have a Mr. budweiser.
This is classic, Feyn. It's because you crave attention, isn't it? Now I REALLY gotta go.
A lot of people are convinced that they are right in situations when there is really no way of knowing the truth. I like to keep an open mind on most issues, especially where there is no proof. There are some things we can never be sure of.
You can make so much sense, it's scary.
Good Lord Man - get ahold of yourself - do you not think we have been thoughtfull of these ideas before??????? Your arguments are sopmorphic, most of 4um have seen 'em.
(2)BTW, Jesus' last words were in the book of Revelation, chapter 22. (3)Your twisting of the truth... (1)The bible either IS the true word of god or it is NOT. It can't be a buffet line of truth where only YOU can tell me which food is fresh and which food is spoiled. TRUTH does not work that way, it is a BINARY funtion. (2) That is only ONE place where his "supposed" last words were "supposedly" recorded. Because Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost." Now you say that ALL of those are wrong? So even YOU admit that the bible is NOT true. Nice. (3)HOW am I twisting the truth of my point #2? It is RIGHT OUT OF THE BIBLE. ROFLMAO! I think you fell off your horsie and landed on your head.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Get a grip.
Your arguments are sopmorphic, most of 4um have seen 'em. Tom, You certianly do not respond in a manner that remotely suggests that you have seen anything but lockstep adherence to whatever goofy ideas are thrown up against the wall here. From what I read, people who DARE to disagree are vilified and portrayed as evil and misguided. So, no, while you may have HEARD these ideas before, you have given them NO THOUGHT.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Besides Christianity, what other bugs do you have up your ass?
Your ideas are the introduction to western civ.
Simply using an existing argument that furthered my point.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Can I invite you to a Colorado BBQ?
Diana, I could not agree more. Keep an Open Mind! People like Red, AKA Stone, Horsie-boy and Phaedrus do NOT keep an open mind. To them, all who disagree with THEIR beliefs are turning away from the truth of THEIR god and obsessed with making "children of hell" (whatever that means). Perhaps you should tell THEM what you just told me.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I agree that it's good to have different points of view to consider. Someone can have a difficult personality, yet add a lot if they have a lot of knowledge to offer. I suspect FL may be a bit pompous but knows a lot, and if anything we can hone our own debating skills as a result of dealing with FL. He/she is an interesting poster if nothing else, and makes threads grow long. Kind of reminds me of the old days on LP sparing with BAC.
Your idiocy preceeds you.
the pharisee christians who believe in taking dominion over the government and killing muslims are a lot like the talmud believing jews who conspire against jesus. Actually, I realized later that I didn't phrase that correctly. What I meant was that the faithful in OLD TESTAMENT TIMES, are considered part of the church. There's a passage: I bend my knee to the Lord Jesus Christ, of whom the whole family in heaven and earth are named, as well as Ye are the temple of God, built upon the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ being the chief corner stone thereof. [I probably butchered that, but you know what I mean.] Now I do HAVE HOPES that Jews who are faithful to the Old Testament, because that is all they know, will be saved, if not by grace, then by God's mercy. Psalm 136 is 26 verses of "his mercy endureth forever", particularly if they were kind to their fellow man, [not just Jews]. I feel the same way about the Muslims. I have met so many who have the light of God in their eyes, and are unassuming, peaceful, and loving. I feel God takes all these things into consideration, and I think they may be judged differently based on the knowledge they were given. And as I said, I don't believe all who call themselves Christian are going to get into heaven.
Who in the heck is RF?
I agree that it's good to have someone to spar with occasionally as I think it sharpens our skills, but I fear we have little to learn from this fellow otherwise.
"There is no harm in doubt and scepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made." - Richard Feynman ".... I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong. I have approximate answers and possible beliefs and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I am not absolutely sure of anything and there are many things I do not know anything about, such as whether it means anything to ask 'why are we here?' I do not have to know an answer. I do not feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which it is as far as I can tell. It does not frighten me." - Richard Feynman "I often use the analogy of a chess game: one can learn all the rules of chess, but one doesn't know how to play well. The present situation in physics is as if we know chess, but we don't know one or two rules. But in this part of the board where things are operation, those one or two rules are not operating much and we can get along pretty well without understanding those rules. That's the way it is, I would say, regarding the phenomena of life, consciousness and so forth. God was invented to explain mystery. God is always invented to explain those things that you do not understand. Now, when you finally discover how something works, you get some laws which you're taking away from God; you don't need him anymore. But you need him for the other mysteries. So therefore you leave him to create the universe because we haven't figured that out yet; you need him for understanding those things which you don't believe the laws will explain, such as consciousness, or why you only live to a certain length of time--life and death -- stuff like that. God is always associated with those things that you do not understand. Therefore I don't think that the laws can be considered to be like God because they have been figured out." Richard Feynman
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman What are you drinking? I hope we all get to have a front row seat to watch your knees shake before you bend them to the King of Kings. I hope you can still laugh then, when he give you the thumbs-down.
Richard Feynman. The "Einstein" of the last 60 years.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Wow, Horsie... You bluster a LOT but you refute VERY LITTLE... How can you reconcile the FOUR apparent versions of Jesus' LAST WORDS? They all came out of YOUR bible, which YOU claim is TRUE. Which one has the TRUE last words of Jesus, and how do YOU know?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Richard Feyanman (sp) one of the clearest thinkers, esp. in physics of our time.. A remarkable man, Reagan called him to investigate the Challanger Space Shuttle disaster in (1982?), and according to the lore I read at the time, he was awoaken from one of those "neutral bouncey (sp) tubs) where he was doing the governments work for us on LSD. He was the point man on the O Ring failure that doomed the Challanger, and, was pretty much the smartest man on earth. A nice guy as well, from what I can tell.
Got ya!! I just got my dictionary to look up tone, as I remember in English classes tone was indeed a factor in literature and writing. Okey, one of the many definitions of tone in Webster's dictionary is: 3 a manner of speaking or writing that shows a certain attitude on the part of the speaker or writer, consisting in choice of words, phrasing, etc. [the friendly tone of her letter]...
When one reads the Gospels, one has to understand they are not journalists giving blow by blow accounts of what happened. It is a writing in the context of the Cross, years later. It is not a purely historical recounting. We are talking retrospective history. The apostles lived with Christ for years and were often confused and did not "get" he was God. They are reflecting back on years previous in the light of the Passion after they had figured out who Christ was. There was a deliberate theology in place already so that we would be given an interpretation of events.
I think ya pinned him to the mat, Diana. Let's see if he can execute a step over toe hold.
Who in the heck is RF Richard Feyanman (sp) one of the clearest thinkers, esp. in physics of our time.. A remarkable man, Reagan called him to investigate the Challanger Space Shuttle disaster in (1982?), and according to the lore I read at the time, he was awoaken from one of those "neutral bouncey (sp) tubs) where he was doing the governments work for us on LSD. He was the point man on the O Ring failure that doomed the Challanger, and, was pretty much the smartest man on earth. A nice guy as well, from what I can tell. Tom, Dr Feynman was indeed one of the most brilliant minds we have ever encountered. He deciphered the Mayan hieroglyphics himself (as a puzzle, not an assignment), solved the Challenger disaster, INVENTED quantum electrodynamics, pioneered nanotechnology, and taught himself to pick the safe that held ALL the secrets of the atomic bomb without outside help. Apple Computer picked him to be their spokesperson for their "THINK DIFFERENT" campaign. Oh, and he loved to play the congas. He didn't do LSD, however. That is part of his mythology. His last words were "I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring"
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I could drag out my technical writing books too? They say remember your audience, use the correct tone accordingly...
Richard Feynman Figures, doesn't it?
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
I just got my dictionary to look up tone, as I remember in English classes tone was indeed a factor in literature and writing. Okey, one of the many definitions of tone in Webster's dictionary is: 3 a manner of speaking or writing that shows a certain attitude on the part of the speaker or writer, consisting in choice of words, phrasing, etc. [the friendly tone of her letter]... Yes, that is a definition for tone. However, TONE is also a function of the INTERPRETATION of the listener or reader, if you complete the definition and don't just go .... Eh... Diana, I love ya so! *BIG smoochies for Diana! :) Wanna be my date for prom?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Figures, doesn't it? Curious... what do you mean by that? Because, on first glance, I would take it as a compliment. Though I highly doubt that was your TONE when you wrote it. (playful look to DIANA!)
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Scooter, Perhaps YOU will step up and answer this question, you seem to be a reasonable person. Is the bible TRUE? Meaning FACTUAL. Did all the events in the bible actually take place? If not, which ones did not, and how do you know for certain? As a follow-up... how do you reconcile the plethora of inconsistencies and blatant contradictions in the bible? Thanks for taking the time to give me a thoughtful and measured response. I look forward to reading your story when I return from my walk.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I'm not going back to try to decipher your inane rants against God. It's not worth any more of my time. Some people are not going to be saved. Period. You apparently choose to be one of them. I'm not going to change you. I'm not going to try. It's a waste of time. It's casting pearls before swine, as the Bible says. I know God is real. I'd like for you to believe, but if you don't, that is your choice and your loss, as you will find out some day, possibly not too long in the future. God is not mocked. All your supposed wisdom is nothing but foolishness to Him, and to anyone with half your intelligence.
LOL!
God’s churches, if they are of God, should be the salt of the earth, but these millions have lost their savor, and therefore, are: "fit only to be trodden under the feet of men." But they can change…most of We Hold These Truth's advisors did. Each Christian Zionist at some point lost his senses in the shouting crowd; they will regain their senses slowly, one by one, church by church…with our/your help. This is our agenda. Start by watching our one hour presentation, with your friends, right on your computer, or you may buy it for your TV: Our best tool to help you teach, view it free: Why Christian-Zionist cannot work for peace, Interactive fully guided free audio/video. I can't watch this on my old computer. Have you watched it? Anyone?
Most everyone knows that I have a hard time believing that Jesus is the son of God. I have a hard time believing that God would be in human form, and God should know everything past, present and future, but Jesus didn't seem to. There have been times where I have struggled to believe, but I just can't. Maybe God does not want me, who knows. Red I hope you are right about people who have a hard time not believing but don't go to hell because they basically try to live their lives in a moral way and care about all people and their well-being. I know there are many Christians who insist that if you don't believe in Jesus, being good will only get you to hell, that you must believe in order to go to Heaven, that good works get you nowhere. Well I will still do what my conscience tells me to do, even if I can't believe in Jesus, even if I go to hell, I will continue to do my best to help those around me to have an easier life as I believe life on earth is a hell of sorts for everyone.
That's what I believe, it's not the religion that matters but the heart and actions of each individual.
Interesting post. The real Feynman, is he a physicist? They are making some very interesting discoveries concerning subatomic particles that do not fit in with what we have thought all along about the physical world.
Did he die? I think I'll look him up..sounds interesting but I'm surprised I haven't heard of him as I'm at least familiar with a lot of names, mostly chemists though.
Well goodnight everybody it's 9 here which means it's later everywhere else.
Most everyone knows that I have a hard time believing that Jesus is the son of God. I have a hard time believing that God would be in human form, and God should know everything past, present and future, but Jesus didn't seem to. There have been times where I have struggled to believe, but I just can't. Maybe God does not want me, who knows Diana, I didn't know that about you. That hit me in the stomach. I can honestly say from what I've seen from you, God DOES want you! Why do you say Jesus didn't seem to know everything? Jhn 7:45 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him? Jhn 7:46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man. http://www.bluelett erbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn007.html#46 http://www.blueletterb ible.org/tsk_b/Jhn/7/46.html You are one I would spend the time with to help you come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ. I want to be SURE you are with us when He returns.
Me too. It's past midnight. Red Jones, Carlson sounds worn out. I think he needs a little help. Many hands make light work. We HAVE to wake up the rest of the church. Btainstorm, everyone.
That's it, wipe the dust from your feet and move on. ;0)
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Pretty simple question, Horsie... How can you reconcile the FOUR apparent versions of Jesus' LAST WORDS? They all came out of YOUR bible, which YOU claim is TRUE. Which one has the TRUE last words of Jesus, and how do YOU know? For god to be mocked, god would have to exist first, so I agree with your premise that god is not mocked. You can't answer a SIMPLE question about a HUGE inconsistency in the bible. I see that you don't cast pearls before swine, you keep them safely stored in your jar of vinegar.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Diana, Not only was he a physicist, he was one of the most gifted physicist of all time. He won the Nobel Prize for the discovery of the field of Quantum Electrodynamics. He is a great author as well and gave fantastic lectures. He writes many books of complex science so that the "common man" can understand them. Check out "Six Easy Pieces" if you have a chance. Others of my favorite quotes of his: "I was born not knowing and have only had a little time to change that here and there." "It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong" and "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts. If you thought that science was certain - well, that is just an error on your part."
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Jhn 7:45 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him? Jhn 7:46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man. REALLY? Horsie... here are PRIME examples of JESUS NOT KNOWING EVERYTHING. When second coming? Hmm... I know, let's ask JESUS! MATT 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Here we find more of his blunder on the topic of the END OF THE WORLD: In MATT 16:27-28, Jesus claims he will return before some of his hearers taste death. Verse 27 states that he will come "in the glory of the Father with his angels" and that "he shall reward every man according to his works." Now, at least they all SEEM to agree on what he said, which is a relief! However, his generation, the NEXT generation, the generation after that, and MANY more, have tasted death. Even though Jesus seemed to KNOW the end was RIGHT around the corner, all those people have come and gone and it sure seems like ALL ain't been fulfilled yet. OOOPSIES! STRIKE ONE! Hey Jesus! Are you equal to or lesser than god? JOHN 10:30 I and my Father are one. JOHN 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And this is out of the same book by the same author! STRIKE TWO!! Do I judge, do I not judge? I just can't remember! God and I are not one, and god does not judge. Hang on, I really didn't come here to judge at all, now I remember! AGAIN, out of the SAME BOOK, by the SAME AUTHOR! STRIKE THREEEEEEE, YER OUTTA HERE! Diana, according to the BIBLE, Jesus SURELY did not know much about anything, he barely knew why he was here in the first place! "There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Whether the Bible is true or not is irrelevant, what is certain is that end timers who confound the message of Christ with Zionism and modern-day Israel are lunatics. Cam you imagine John Hagee's church services in the days leading up to the nuking of Iran? With Sunday school children chanting "nuke, nuke, nuke, nuke Iran," then Hagee urging Bush and Cheney to not only nuke Iran, but all of Israel’s enemies, Russia, China, and the Europeans Union.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
I continue to find your anti-Christian hate posts disgusting, just gratuitous sliming. Juvenile. Grow up.
Actually, if the bible is not true, then the crux of many of the statements put forth by people like you Red Jones, Phaedrus, AKA Stone, BTP Holdings, Horsie, and many others here disappears and your bible-based positions become utterly meaningless as they use the supposed "truth" of the bible to support there untennable positions. For example: in your case - the bible is not true, so your silly "end of times" fear goes away entirely.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I am not anti-christian, Phaedrus, I just know that the bible is a storybook and not a true history of anything. Please show me how telling the TRUTH about the bible is disgusting. If you can show me where I am incorrect, and that without a doubt the bible is incontravertibly true, I would be delighted to see your evidence. Otherwise, the only one here being juvenile is you.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I'm reminded of a parable I once heard when I was a lad... Long ago, the wind and the sun decided to have a contest to see who was stronger. So they looked to the earth and saw a man wearing a cloak walking along a path and felt that this man would make a good example as to who was the more powerful of the two. They decided to see who could get the man to remove his cloak first. The wind decided to go first and tried to blow the man's cloak off of him. When it wouldn't come off, he blew harder and harder with all his might yet could not get the cloak off the man. In fact, the man only drew the cloak tighter and tighter to his body. When the wind finally exhausted all of his might, there the man sat with his claok wrapped tightly around him still. So the sun took it's turn and just shined on the man with no effort...just a nice warm glow. After time, the man began to loosen his grip on the cloak. Then after a while longer, he began to sweat. And finally after some waiting and some patience from the sun, the man finally removed his cloak thus declaring the sun the winner. The moral here is that when dealing with people, approaching them with harshness will only cause them to draw furthur away from you and make them more tight-lipped. The key is to have patience and give the charity that all can give whether rich or poor, simple kindness, compassion, a warm smile and genuine concern for their well being. Then people will be more open with you and share what is in their hearts, thus causing you to be able to know the real; the only thing worth truly knowing in any of us. Personally, I'm of the opinion that monotheism is in error. But I'll never condemn others for their beliefs, unless they seek to inflict those beliefs on others against their will.
#2. To: Red Jones (#0)
#3. To: Feynman Lives!, All (#1)
#4. To: Phaedrus (#3)
Some modicum of respect would seem due.
#5. To: Phaedrus (#3)
#6. To: Phaedrus (#3)
It kinda disgusts me when Christianity, which just happens to be the foundation of our way of life, of Western Science and Civiliation, is ridiculed and attacked. Some modicum of respect would seem due.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814
#7. To: All (#6)
THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED NO THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION
#8. To: Feynman Lives! (#7)
#9. To: Phaedrus (#8)
It kinda disgusts me when Christianity, which just happens to be the foundation of our way of life, of Western Science and Civiliation, is ridiculed and attacked. Some modicum of respect would seem due.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED NO THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#10. To: Feynman Lives! (#9)
Sorry to be the one to break the TRUTH to you, but Christianity IS NOT the foundation of our way of life.
#11. To: Feynman Lives! (#9)
#12. To: Phaedrus (#10)
Sorry to contradict you but Christianity IS the foundation of our way of life.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED NO THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#13. To: Phaedrus (#11)
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#14. To: Feynman Lives! (#13)
#15. To: Phaedrus (#14)
It kinda disgusts me when Christianity, which just happens to be the foundation of our way of life, of Western Science and Civiliation, is ridiculed and attacked. Some modicum of respect would seem due
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#16. To: Feynman Lives!l Phaedrus (#15)
You might want to consider, before you make a bigger fool of yourself, that Greece is considered the foundation of western civilization because their art, philosophy, science, political ideas etc went on to spread throughout Europe and many places around the globe. Now, the Greeks did not wake up one day and say, "why don't we create western civilization," but they sure as hell WEREN'T christians.
#17. To: Red Jones (#0)
Can Christ Followers Save The World From "Christians"
#18. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#16)
You are right...the US government was not founded on Christianity. It was founded on Judeo-FreeMasonry.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#19. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#17)
The Bible says with God's help, we can, and we will:
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#20. To: Feynman Lives! (#1)
#21. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#20)
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#22. To: Feynman Lives! (#19)
The bible says a LOT of things... and many of them directly contradict one another...
#23. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#22)
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#24. To: Feynman Lives! (#15)
Now, the Greeks did not wake up one day and say, "why don't we create western civilization," but they sure as hell WEREN'T christians.
#25. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#24)
Wow... you undercut your own case for me. How nice of you.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#26. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#24)
Now, the Greeks did not wake up one day and say, "why don't we create western civilization," but they sure as hell WEREN'T christians.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#27. To: Feynman Lives! (#23)
#28. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#27)
The Word of God is true as given by God. He foresaw those who hate Him would pervert His written Word, or why else would He have seen fit to make that statement? What was left is sufficient for those who are called, and chosen, and who have eyes to see and ears to hear. He said the rest would be blinded.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#29. To: Feynman Lives! (#26)
The GREEKS were around and building their culture many CENTURIES before Jesus or the bible showed up on the scene.
#30. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#29)
He declared Himself in three persons, RIGHT THERE: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#31. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#29)
He declared Himself in three persons, RIGHT THERE: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#32. To: Feynman Lives! (#28)
#33. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#29)
Jesus is God
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#34. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#32)
Can you read? If it were 100 per cent, WHY WOULD JESUS ADMONISH THE ONES WHO WOULD LATER CHANGE IT? It is not 100 per cent the way He gave it. The Jews changed it where it suited them, King James' translators changed it to suit their conspiracy against God [Psalm 2]. Read my lips: IT IS SUFFICIENT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE EYES TO SEE.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#35. To: Feynman Lives! (#31)
FINE... I can play this game as well...
#36. To: Feynman Lives! (#34)
#37. To: Feynman Lives! (#6)
#38. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#16)
#39. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#36)
#40. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#35)
Matthew 1= genealogy of Joseph.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#41. To: Diana (#37)
Culturally, traditionally the US has always been Christian.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#42. To: Feynman Lives!, Phaedrus (#12)
I showed you PROOF to the contrary.
#43. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#36)
God's Word does not come back to Him void.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#44. To: Diana (#42)
You mean the proof that some of the founding fathers were not Christian?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#45. To: Feynman Lives! (#41)
#46. To: Feynman Lives! (#13)
Phaedrus,
#47. To: Diana (#45)
I don't think so, because throughout western civilization, when Christianity took hold in Europe it became a way of life for the majority of people except for Jews who kept their religion, and the agnostics who have a hard time believing in things where there is no proof.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#48. To: Feynman Lives! (#15)
You might want to consider, before you make a bigger fool of yourself, that Greece is considered the foundation of western civilization because their art, philosophy, science, political ideas etc went on to spread throughout Europe and many places around the globe.
#49. To: Diana (#46)
I think you can do better than that.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#50. To: Diana (#48)
thought the argument was over whether the US has traditionally been a Christian country, not Ancient Greece
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#51. To: Feynman Lives! (#28)
Do you think that the bible is 100% FACT, or FICTION?
#52. To: Feynman Lives! (#44)
GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#53. To: Diana (#51)
That is a very difficult question for anyone to answer, as there are so many versions of the bible
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#54. To: Diana (#52)
But culturally the US did morph into a Christian nation.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#55. To: Feynman Lives!, diana (#50)
Sorry, but christianity just ain't the right answer... sure it has influence now, but it was not the FOUNDATION of it all... not by a longshot.
#56. To: tom007 (#55)
So what was?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#57. To: Feynman Lives! (#50)
It is not about whether or not there are traditional values existent in socitety, it is about the FOUNDATION of our way of life, western science and civilization.
#58. To: Diana (#57)
But foundations change, you can have a country that lays down rules as it's foundation, but as times go by things always tend to change.
2: the fundamental assumptions from which something is begun or developed or calculated or explained; "the whole argument rested on a basis of conjecture" [syn: basis, base, fundament, groundwork, cornerstone]
3: lowest support of a structure; "it was built on a base of solid rock"; "he stood at the foot of the tower" [syn: base, fundament, foot, groundwork, substructure, understructure]
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#59. To: Feynman Lives! (#54)
Furthermore, this is NOT what Phaedrus was talking about, you are OFF topic with your point (which is also loosely made).
#60. To: Feynman Lives!, diana (#56)
The GREEKS were around and building their culture many CENTURIES before Jesus or the bible showed up on the scene. The civilization of ancient Greece flowered more than 2500 years ago but it influences the way we live today.
#61. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#16)
You are right...the US government was not founded on Christianity. It was founded on Judeo-FreeMasonry.
#62. To: Diana (#59)
Why does it have to be? I wasn't responding to Phaedrus, I was responding to you.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#63. To: Feynman Lives! (#56)
To: tom007
#64. To: christine (#61)
America, on the other hand is another story, and I've explained it here more than once. Ezekiel 34:13; Micah 4; Psalm 2, etc. etc. The whole Bible is fulfilled in Jesus Christ and being fulfilled in America.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#65. To: Diana, Feynman Lives! (#59)
#66. To: Feynman Lives! (#62)
You took the conversation out of context and tried to spin it in a direction that was not being discussed.
#67. To: Diana (#59)
However I maintain that the US traditionally and culturally has been a majority Christian country
#68. To: christine (#61)
#69. To: Diana (#63)
Okey I'll bite, are you referring to the remarks of the founding fathers?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#70. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#17)
#71. To: Feynman Lives! (#62)
Next time, try to stay WITH the conversation, or start a NEW thread for your own kooky ideas.
#72. To: Diana (#66)
Would you kindly explain to me how I spinned it and which direction I spun it towards?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#73. To: tom007, Feynman Lives!, christine (#60)
OK I am good with that, as a base. I just do not get why you seem to need to belittle any one who does not totally agree with you. It's does not make your arguments palatable, and does nothing but provoke those whom you might have had a dialogue with.
#74. To: Red Jones (#70)
thank-you for those bible verses in #17. I enjoyed reading them
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#75. To: Feynman Lives! (#15)
I see that you have NOTHING substantive to offer in your defense of your mythological beliefs...
#76. To: Feynman Lives!, AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#64)
With all due respect, he just got done ADMITTING that the bible is NOT a work of fact
#77. To: Feynman Lives!, diana (#72)
Would you kindly explain to me how I spinned it and which direction I spun it towards?
#78. To: Feynman Lives! (#74)
You never got done reading the ones I showed you
#79. To: Diana (#73)
It's a waste of time to try to reason with someone who does not intend on being reasonable.
#80. To: Dakmar (#65)
Hemp was one of the FOUNDATIONS of the early US economy. How times have changed...
#81. To: Diana (#73)
I think I'll drop out of this argument too
#82. To: tom007 (#60)
It's does not make your arguments palatable, and does nothing but provoke those whom you might have had a dialogue with.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#83. To: Feynman Lives! (#62)
You are free to maintain whatever you wish, but you are incorrect about this nation.
#84. To: tom007 (#77)
Diana made perfectly good, thoughtful, remarks on the subject,
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#85. To: Dakmar (#83)
Congratulations, that's shot right to #1
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#86. To: All, diana (#79)
#87. To: Feynman Lives!, tom007 (#58)
So, you see, the FOUNDATION of a country can NOT change. The direction of that country can, but not the FOUNDATION.
#88. To: Red Jones (#81)
He loves homosexual themes. He loves porn themes
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#89. To: Feynman Lives! (#74)
You never got done reading the ones I showed you that PROVES that the bible is pornographic
#90. To: Diana (#87)
Then from what you have said, a foundation is something present only in the very beginning, when say a country is being formed. Laws are drawn up, ideals set up, then time goes by and things DO indeed change.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#91. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#53)
#92. To: tom007 (#89)
I think the real RF wants his name back
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#93. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#16)
#94. To: ... (#80)
True, but there were no hippies to smoke it in those days. They made rope out of it for a while and then it just went away.
#95. To: Diana, FecklessFeynman (#48)
But based upon his performance, why bother? He has nothing to offer but sophistry.
#96. To: ... (#80)
True, but there were no hippies to smoke it in those days. They made rope out of it for a while and then it just went away.
#97. To: mehitable (#91)
What the Bible actually IS, you pathetic moron, is the collected experiences of a race of people and the solutions to the various problems of life that they devised - problems like defining themselves as a people, encouraging their growth and survival, building families and communities, what kinds of food to grow and eat, what legal and political systems worked for them
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#98. To: Feynman Lives! (#69)
You get no points for being lazy.
#99. To: Dakmar (#94)
That's right. It wasn't until after abolition that coloreds started tempting white women with their devil weed.
#100. To: Phaedrus, all (#95)
#101. To: Phaedrus (#95)
I deconstructed one of his posts on an earlier Evolution thread, buried him
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#102. To: Feynman Lives! (#82)
rguments have to be palatable now? I thought that they just had to be well founded and/or defensible with facts. I don't recall the last time I was told by a judge that my case was being dismissed because my argument was not PALATABLE.
#103. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#97)
#104. To: tom007 (#102)
You are hanging yourself.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#105. To: Feynman Lives! (#84)
#106. To: mehitable (#103)
You sound like a particularly dim witted 12 year old. I assume your parents are passed out on the couch again
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#107. To: Dakmar (#94)
That's right. It wasn't until after abolition that coloreds started tempting white women with their devil weed.
#108. To: tom007 (#105)
The foundations of the US.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#109. To: mehitable, Feynman Lives!, tom007 (#103)
You sound like a particularly dim witted 12 year old.
#110. To: Feynman Lives! (#90)
BINGO!
#111. To: Diana (#98)
Do you get points for being arrogant?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#112. To: Dakmar (#109)
#113. To: Dakmar (#94)
That's right. It wasn't until after abolition that coloreds started tempting white women with their devil weed.
#114. To: ... (#107)
I don't think they had rolling paper in 1776. It's not their fault for not seeing the potential.
#115. To: Dakmar (#114)
You poor schmuck, you've never seen History of the World?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#116. To: Diana (#98)
Do you get points for being arrogant?
#117. To: Dakmar (#114)
#118. To: tom007 (#116)
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#119. To: ... (#117)
When did they invent the Brownie if yur so smart
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#120. To: mehitable, Feckless (#100)
Sometimes it's good to have someone who is obviously...different...so we can better understand and communicate what we believe.
#121. To: Feynman Lives!, Phaedrus, diana (#101)
don't hate christianity nor am I an atheist, I am merely more educated on these subjects than you are.
#122. To: ... (#39)
Do virtuous Mormons go to hell?
#123. To: Feynman Lives! (#101)
I am merely more educated on these subjects than you are.
#124. To: Feynman Lives! (#119)
#125. To: Feynman Lives! (#23)
#126. To: Phaedrus, all (#120)
#127. To: Phaedrus (#123)
am merely more educated on these subjects than you are. Now THAT is amusing.
#128. To: Phaedrus (#120)
You're too kind. He spews cleverly worded streams of hate toward Christianity, having convinced himself there is no God
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#129. To: Feynman Lives! (#118)
If this discussion is not pleasing to you, then why do you partake of it? You are not forced to read this, nor to reply. Your actions make you complicit in the very thing that you are railing against.
#130. To: ... (#117)
When did they invent the Brownie if yur so smart.
#131. To: All (#121)
F you were an educated person, you would never have made this terribly ignorent statement. I know highly educated people, the more education you have, the more humble you become.
#132. To: mehitable (#126)
but I suspect from his arguments and tone, that he is very young and untried by life.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#133. To: tom007 (#129)
This is nonsense. I am not going away, you are too easy. Could have been a good discussion tho. But NOOOOO.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#134. To: Feynman Lives!, diana (#118)
Tom,
#135. To: Phaedrus (#123)
I am merely more educated on these subjects than you are.
#136. To: mehitable (#126)
Well - perhaps - but I suspect from his arguments and tone, that he is very young and untried by life. He does not have much wisdom or understanding of people or he would not make such consistently patronizing and unappealing arguments.
#137. To: Red Jones (#125)
A lot of people are thinking. This is good
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#138. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#35)
Your hatred of God, like so many, blinds you.
#139. To: tom007 (#129)
This is nonsense.
#140. To: Dakmar (#130)
I don't know nothing about no Brownies, occifer!
#141. To: tom007 (#134)
You seem to uncomfortable with my comments - is their a gulag you want to send me to?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#142. To: Feynman Lives! (#132)
What is the "wisdom" that you feel I have not learned from this group? Please, tell me.
#143. To: Feynman Lives! (#133)
How have any of your comments contributed to anything that could remotely resemble a good discussion?
#144. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#35)
My people" refers to Christians, which includes the FAITHFUL of the Old Testament
#145. To: Feynman Lives! (#133)
How have any of your comments contributed to anything that could remotely resemble a good discussion?
#146. To: Red Jones (#144)
#147. To: Phaedrus (#143)
#148. To: Feynman Lives! (#141)
I was simply expressing my compassion towards your obvious level of discomfort with the way things were going here. It was my concern for your well-being that prompted my comments, that is all, sweetie...
#149. To: mehitable (#142)
When you know that you don't know everything, then you'll know what's important
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#150. To: tom007 (#148)
I was simply expressing my compassion towards your obvious level of discomfort with the way things were going here. It was my concern for your well-being that prompted my comments, that is all, sweetie... Grab a chair and relax! Get some scotch while you are at it.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#151. To: Feynman Lives! (#149)
#152. To: Dakmar (#94)
That's right. It wasn't until after abolition that coloreds started tempting white women with their devil weed.
#153. To: Red Jones (#147)
when you read too much of what phoney-man says you want jesus to return so that he will separate the believers from the non-believers.
Office of Redemption and Salvation
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#154. To: Feynman Lives! (#150)
om COMPLETELY misread my statement and took it in the worst way possible.
#155. To: tom007 (#96)
The oldest reference to hemp that I am aware of is from a radio NPR thinggy, that stated a Jewish women's toumb was excavated c. 800BC? that contained a pipe and hemp -' she died in childbirth, and numerous sources indicate hemp being a good analgesic to have around in a situation like this.
#156. To: Red Jones (#147)
when you read too much of what phoney-man says you want jesus to return so that he will separate the believers from the non-believers.
#157. To: Red Jones (#138)
Everyone should note how powerful the bible is. If it is not so powerful, then why is it attacked by the phoney-man?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#158. To: tom007, Red Jones, Phaedrus, all (#154)
#159. To: All, red jones (#154)
OK - I'm going to find some scotch, somewhere.
#160. To: tom007 (#154)
OK - I'm going to find some scotch, somewhere
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#161. To: mehitable (#158)
DAMN - I just realized. Are we all really SO bored that we're spending all this time talking to Fleghman Lives?
#162. To: Diana (#152)
#163. To: tom007 (#161)
#164. To: mehitable (#158)
Everyone should note how powerful the bible is. If it is not so powerful, then why is it attacked by the phoney-man?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#165. To: Feynman Lives! (#160)
Good call, and may I suggest a Mac 18, straight up, with a nice AVO #3 cigar?
#166. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#164)
WHY am I being attacked by all of you?
#167. To: mehitable (#163)
I'm wondering what we'd put into a Dick on the Rocks?
#168. To: Feynman Lives! (#153)
Jesus Christ
#169. To: mehitable (#166)
Ever heard of the phenomenon of the "runt of the litter"?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#170. To: tom007 (#167)
#171. To: Feynman Lives!, Christine, Red Jones (#64)
#172. To: mehitable (#158)
Are we all really SO bored that we're spending all this time talking to Fleghman Lives?
#173. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#169)
#174. To: Phaedrus (#172)
#175. To: Phaedrus (#168)
But don't take your stuff out into the world. There are those who will knock your block off. And for the record, this is not a personal threat, just an observation
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#176. To: tom007 (#159)
#177. To: Feynman Lives! (#164)
Because everyone should note how powerful my ideas are. If they were NOT so powerful, then WHY am I being attacked by all of you?
#178. To: Feynman Lives! (#111)
However, Diana, many times people who simply don't know what is going on mistake those who are simply being RIGHT for being arrogant.
#179. To: Diana (#178)
#180. To: Feynman Lives! (#164)
Because everyone should note how powerful my ideas are. If they were NOT so powerful, then WHY am I being attacked by all of you?
#181. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#171)
(1)"With all due respect, he just got done ADMITTING that the bible is NOT a work of fact, so what does it matter what is said in the book?"
"I did not. I said it may have been perverted in areas, but the vast majority of it is truth, for those who have eyes to see."
Hmm, Houston, we have a problem.... for quite surprisingly, old Matty must have had it wrong be cause you can see CLEARLY what Jesus said before he croaked in Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
Wait.. HOLD YOUR HORSIES... that can't be right... I am pretty sure that the authority on this was John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#182. To: Feynman Lives! (#164)
Because everyone should note how powerful my ideas are. If they were NOT so powerful, then WHY am I being attacked by all of you?
#183. To: tom007 (#180)
Good Lord Man - get ahold of yourself - do you not think we have been thoughtfull of these ideas before???????
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#184. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#181)
#185. To: All (#182)
Because everyone should note how powerful my ideas are.
#186. To: tom007 (#182)
Because everyone should note how powerful my ideas are. If they were NOT so powerful, then WHY am I being attacked by all of you?
Get a grip.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#187. To: Red Jones (#176)
no, but I have a Mr. budweiser.
#188. To: Diana (#178)
I like to keep an open mind on most issues
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#189. To: Red Jones, Feynman Lives!, Mehitable, tom007 (#137)
A lot of people are thinking. This is good
#190. To: Feynman Lives! (#188)
#191. To: Red Jones (#144)
My people" refers to Christians, which includes the FAITHFUL of the Old Testament I agree with you so strongly on this point. The jews who are faithful to the old testament are the same as the believing christians IMHO.
#192. To: tom007 (#145)
I concede this point to you RF, completely. The discussion has become your dissing the honest posters with your signiture arrogence and pendatic voice. It makes one wonder if you , RF , really intended to have a dialouge at all.
#193. To: Diana (#189)
#194. To: Fred Mertz (#190)
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#195. To: Feynman Lives! (#181)
#196. To: Diana (#192)
Who in the heck is RF?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#197. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#195)
hope we all get to have a front row seat to watch your knees shake before you bend them to the King of Kings. I hope you can still laugh then, when he give you the thumbs-down.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#198. To: Diana, sky drifter (#192)
Who in the heck is RF
#199. To: Feynman Lives!, Mehitable (#149)
As for my "tone"... well, that is YOUR perception of my writing, there is no TONE in text. You create the tone in how you choose to read it.
#200. To: Feynman Lives! (#175)
#201. To: Diana (#199)
#202. To: tom007 (#198)
To: Diana, sky drifter
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#203. To: Feynman Lives!, Mehitable, tom007 (#150)
Hey MEHITABLE!! Here we have another perfect example of someone reading a tone into something that was not intended by the writer.
#204. To: Diana (#192)
Who in the heck is RF?
#205. To: Diana (#199)
Got ya!!
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#206. To: BTP Holdings (#204)
Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#207. To: scooter (#200)
To: Feynman Lives! When one reads the Gospels, one has to understand they are not journalists giving blow by blow accounts of what happened. It is a writing in the context of the Cross, years later. It is not a purely historical recounting. We are talking retrospective history. The apostles lived with Christ for years and were often confused and did not "get" he was God. They are reflecting back on years previous in the light of the Passion after they had figured out who Christ was. There was a deliberate theology in place already so that we would be given an interpretation of events.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#208. To: Feynman Lives! (#197)
#209. To: mehitable (#184)
Besides Christianity, what other bugs do you have up your ass?
#210. To: Red Jones (#0)
What is needed is men who will use any tactic that is legal, moral and Godly to reach into the evangelical church and paint the blood of the victims on its doorways where they cannot overlook it. This is the mission of Pharisee Watch and Project Strait Gate. And how do we achieve such a feat?
#211. To: Feynman Lives!, Red Jones (#188)
#212. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#191)
. I have met so many who have the light of God in their eyes, and are unassuming, peaceful, and loving. I feel God takes all these things into consideration, and I think they may be judged differently based on the knowledge they were given. And as I said, I don't believe all who call themselves Christian are going to get into heaven.
#213. To: Feynman Lives! (#194)
"I often use the analogy of a chess game: one can learn all the rules of chess, but one doesn't know how to play well. The present situation in physics is as if we know chess, but we don't know one or two rules. But in this part of the board where things are operation, those one or two rules are not operating much and we can get along pretty well without understanding those rules. That's the way it is, I would say, regarding the phenomena of life, consciousness and so forth.
#214. To: tom007 (#198)
was pretty much the smartest man on earth. A nice guy as well, from what I can tell.
#215. To: All (#214)
#216. To: Diana (#211)
#217. To: Diana, Red Jones, christine (#215)
Well goodnight everybody it's 9 here which means it's later everywhere else.
#218. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt, Feynman Lives! (#208)
It's casting pearls before swine, as the Bible says.
#219. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#208)
I'm not going back to try to decipher your inane rants against God.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#220. To: Diana (#213)
Interesting post. The real Feynman, is he a physicist?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#221. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#216)
Why do you say Jesus didn't seem to know everything?
MARK 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
LUKE 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
MATT 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
MARK 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
LUKE 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
JOHN 5:22 "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son."
I sure don't judge... but, if I diiiiid....
JOHN 8:16 "I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true."
JOHN 12:47 "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."
Oh, wait, I am DEFINITELY here to judge you all!
JOHN 10:39 "For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind."
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#222. To: Feynman Lives! (#221)
#223. To: Feynman Lives! (#221)
#224. To: Zoroaster (#222)
Whether the Bible is true or not is irrelevant,
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#225. To: Phaedrus (#223)
I continue to find your anti-Christian hate posts disgusting, just gratuitous sliming. Juvenile. Grow up.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#226. To: Phaedrus (#223)
 | Gold and silver are real money, paper is but a promise. |
#227. To: Feynman Lives! (#225)
Certain OT statements and events are historically accurate, as independently testified from Assyrian tablets dated to the same time. See Sennacherib, c. 680 BC or so.
I just know that the bible is a storybook and not a true history of anything.
#228. To: Elliott Jackalope (#226)
And you don't see that, all throughout history, christianity has sought to inflict those beliefs on others against their will? Here's an easy one: The Spanish Inquisition. Personally, I'm of the opinion that monotheism is in error. But I'll never condemn others for their beliefs, unless they seek to inflict those beliefs on others against their will.
They were FAR too inquisitive! People were KILLED for not professing their belief in christ. KILLED. It sure as hell wasn't the Spanish Casual Chat.
Ya don't like that one, look at how the christians treated the Indians in America.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#229. To: tom007 (#227)
Tom, Certain statements in Tom Clancy's "Clear And Present Danger" are also historically accurate. Does that mean that we should also view the work of Tom Clancy as being the work of GOD? Just because there are a FEW factual events that can be linked up to the bible does NOT mean that the bible should EVER be considered to be a true history of anything. If I discuss the War of 1812 in a storybook I am writing, it does not make my story FACT because there is a historically accurate statement in it.
Certain OT statements and events are historically accurate, as independently testified from Assyrian tablets dated to the same time. See Sennacherib, c. 680 BC or so.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#230. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#229)
Do you see anything good in Christianity, or any good that has come about because of it?
#231. To: Feynman Lives! (#229)
Does that mean that we should also view the work of Tom Clancy as being the work of GOD? This is a ridiculous argument..
Certain statements in Tom Clancy's "Clear And Present Danger" are also historically accurate.
#232. To: Feynman Lives! (#229)
oes that mean that we should also view the work of Tom Clancy as being the work of GOD? You said that, not me. Seem to be your style, make an outrageous claims and attribute them to someone else. Not the sign of an honest person. You COLULD have generated a useful dialogue here on the history truthfulness of the bible, but I don't think that was ever your intent.
and not a true history of anything.
#233. To: Elliott Jackalope, FeynmanLives! (#226)
Personally, I'm of the opinion that monotheism is in error. But I'll never condemn others for their beliefs, unless they seek to inflict those beliefs on others against their will. Thanks, Elliott. Feyn indulges in what Eric Voegelin would call the promotion of a Second Reality, one wholly comprised of words. He's a salesman and a utopian of the Materialist/Atheist/Marxist sort, a rabid anti-Christian, as found throughout academia. He is misled. I am stating clearly who and what he is for all to see -- and he IS seeking to inflict his delusions on the rest of us. My manner is direct so that there can be no mistaking the message, bearing always in mind that we here are dealing solely with words on a screen posted anonymously. My own belief is that no sane, balanced, thinking man or woman can be an atheist. I know that may sound arrogant but believe I can convince any truly open-minded person that God is real, if not conforming to our various historic images of "Him". On the other hand, while that knowledge is extremely important to me personally, I feel no need to seek agreement from others. I'm not selling anything, founding a church or running for "Guru". In short, simply to identify lies and sophistry is a service to others in their quest for truth, for we all seek truth each in our own way. Or so I think.
The moral here is that when dealing with people, approaching them with harshness will only cause them to draw furthur away from you and make them more tight-lipped. The key is to have patience and give the charity that all can give whether rich or poor, simple kindness, compassion, a warm smile and genuine concern for their well being. Then people will be more open with you and share what is in their hearts, thus causing you to be able to know the real; the only thing worth truly knowing in any of us.
#234. To: mehitable (#230)
Sure there are some good things that come out of christianity. What of it? If your only yardstick is to find ANY GOOD that has come out of something, then by that logic, Adoph Hitler should not be vilified because a there were good things that came out of his work.
Do you see anything good in Christianity, or any good that has come about because of it?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#235. To: tom007 (#232)
You said that, not me. Seem to be your style, make an outrageous claims and attribute them to someone else. Not the sign of an honest person. You COLULD have generated a useful dialogue here on the history truthfulness of the bible, but I don't think that was ever your intent. I did not say that YOU said that, Tom, I was simply illustrating the absurdity of your statement. I am very open to generating a useful dialogue. I do not make an OUTRAGEOUS CLAIM when I say that the bible is a work of FICTION, not FACT. I do not make an OUTRAGEOUS CLAIM when I say that the bible has MANY inconsistencies, mistakes and inherent contradictions. I would love to have a USEFUL DIALOGUE on these topics. However, people like Red, Phaedrus, et al, are not interested in that. If you would like to have a USEFUL DIALOGUE on these topics with me, please, feel free, I welcome it. (did you find any scotch last night?)
and not a true history of anything. oes that mean that we should also view the work of Tom Clancy as being the work of GOD?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#236. To: Phaedrus (#233)
Tom... PHAEDRUS is the one making outrageous claims... I never said I was an atheist a marxist or anti-christian, nor am I misled. However, Phaedrus just slung all that mud at me in an OUTRAGEOUS fashion. Yet, I don't see you castigating him for his actions. Phaedrus LAUGHINGLY states that he feels no need to seek agreement from others, but he can not stop himself from attacking me at every opportunity simply because it appears that I might DISAGREE with him.
Atheist/Marxist sort, a rabid anti-Christian. He is misled.I am stating clearly who and what he is for all to see -- and he IS seeking to inflict his delusions on the rest of us. My manner is direct so that there can be no mistaking the message, bearing always in mind that we here are dealing solely with words on a screen posted anonymously.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#237. To: Zipporah (#231)
This is a ridiculous argument.. Zip, old chum, Why is this a ridiculous argument? Both Tom Clancy's novel and the bible are works of fiction. It is a direct parallel. Please explain why it is a ridiculous argument, and we can engage in a thoughtful discourse on the matter. Thanks! (p.s. how do you get pictures to post in the threads?)
Certain statements in Tom Clancy's "Clear And Present Danger" are also historically accurate. Does that mean that we should also view the work of Tom Clancy as being the work of GOD?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#238. To: Feynman Lives! (#234)
Tell me what they are.
Sure there are some good things that come out of christianity.
#239. To: Feynman Lives! (#237)
Both Tom Clancy's novel
and the bible are works of fiction. It is a direct parallel. Please explain
why it is a ridiculous argument, and we can engage in a thoughtful discourse on
the matter. It is a false premise.. it would be as
saying.. peaches are a fruit, apples are a fruit therefore, peaches are apples.
Why is this a ridiculous argument?
#240. To: Feynman Lives! (#236)
I never said I was an atheist a marxist or anti-christian ... Nor have you denied it. However, Phaedrus just slung all that mud at me in an OUTRAGEOUS fashion. If what I say is true, it cannot correctly be characterized as slinging mud. Phaedrus LAUGHINGLY states that he feels no need to seek agreement from others, but he can not stop himself from attacking me at every opportunity simply because it appears that I might DISAGREE with him. This is an example of your routine mischaracterization of my posts and position.
#241. To: Zipporah (#239)
Please explain why it is a ridiculous argument, and we can engage in a thoughtful discourse on the matter. It is a false premise.. it would as saying.. peaches are a fruit, apples are a fruit therefore, peaches are apples. Zip, I don't see how it is a false premise. The bible is a work of fiction. Tom Clancy's novel is a work of fiction. My example illustrated how absurd it would be to say that just because the bible, a work of fiction, has some historical accuracy to it, that is the true word of god. If that were the case, all historical fictions could then be considered to be the work of god.
Why is this a ridiculous argument? Both Tom Clancy's novel and the bible are works of fiction. It is a direct parallel.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#242. To: Feynman Lives! (#241)
yet again false premise.. try again.
My example illustrated how absurd it would be to say that just because the bible, a work of fiction, has some historical accuracy to it, that is the true word of god. If that were the case, all historical fictions could then be considered to be the work of god.
#243. To: Phaedrus (#240)
Nor have you denied it. However, Phaedrus just slung all that mud at me in an OUTRAGEOUS fashion. If what I say is true, it cannot correctly be characterized as slinging mud. Phaedrus LAUGHINGLY states that he feels no need to seek agreement from others, but he can not stop himself from attacking me at every opportunity simply because it appears that I might DISAGREE with him. This is an example of your routine mischaracterization of my posts and position. I hereby state that what you say is not true, and you ARE corretly characterized as slinging mud and comporting yourself in an outrageous and highly inappropriate fashion.
I never said I was an atheist a marxist or anti-christian ...
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#244. To: Zipporah (#242)
Zip, What is the false premise?
My example illustrated how absurd it would be to say that just because the bible, a work of fiction, has some historical accuracy to it, that is the true word of god. If that were the case, all historical fictions could then be considered to be the work of god. yet again false premise.. try again.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#245. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#243)
Tell me what they are. You haven't answered my question, by the way.
Sure there are some good things that come out of christianity.
#246. To: Feynman Lives! (#244)
I already stated it.. how about this: "For example, consider this syllogism, which involves an obvious false premise: * The streets are wet only after it has rained. (premise)
* The streets are wet. (premise)
* Therefore it has recently rained. (conclusion)"
#247. To: mehitable (#238)
Well, here are a few: -Christmas - great for the economy There ya go.
Sure there are some good things that come out of christianity. Tell me what they are.
-The HAIL MARY pass in football
-Those cool "WWJD" bracelets that are ever-so-fashionable these days
-and Christian Slater (would not have such a cool name without Christianity)
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#248. To: Feynman Lives! (#243)
Then I must call you a liar, much as I have no wish to -- your earlier posts contradict. Because you now say so does not make it so. Your next post will say something else.
I hereby state that what you say is not true, and you ARE corretly characterized as slinging mud and comporting yourself in an outrageous and highly inappropriate fashion.
#249. To: Zipporah (#246)
* The streets are wet only after it has rained. (premise) * The streets are wet. (premise) * Therefore it has recently rained. (conclusion)" Now I see what you are getting at, Zip, Again, I was using the absurdity of the statement that the bible is true because it contains a few historically accurate statements, and running with that absurd point. Of COURSE the conclusion of my absurd point would be absurd. That was the point of it. "For example, consider this syllogism, which involves an obvious false premise:
:)
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#250. To: Phaedrus (#248)
Again, calling me a liar is an outrageous statement. I say NO WHERE in my earlier posts that I am an atheist, a marxist OR that I am anti-christian. You are incorrect, Phaedrus.
Then I must call you a liar, much as I have no wish to -- your earlier posts contradict. Because you now say so does not make it so. Your next post will say something else
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#251. To: Feynman Lives! (#250)
No pro-Christian ridicules Christianity. Get real, FL -- you must think that we're ALL very stupid.
#252. To: Feynman Lives! (#247)
-Christmas - great for the economy -The HAIL MARY pass in football -Those cool "WWJD" bracelets that are ever-so-fashionable these days -and Christian Slater (would not have such a cool name without Christianity) You're such a deep thinker.
Well, here are a few:
#253. To: mehitable (#252)
LOL! Hospitals, universities, etc were all started as Christian organizations.
You're such a deep thinker.
#254. To: Zipporah (#253)
Well that's nothing compared to a charm bracelet or football pass. Where the heck are your priorities, Zip? I think we're seeing gubmint edumacation in action here.
#255. To: mehitable (#254)
I think we're seeing gubmint edumacation in action here. Hmm my priorites?? Let's see.. the TRUTH?? :P LOL
Well that's nothing compared to a charm bracelet or football pass. Where the heck are your priorities, Zip?
#256. To: Phaedrus (#251)
Phaedrus, I don't think that you are ALL very stupid, but I am getting the distinct impression that YOU are. Just because one is not PRO something does not mean that they are AGAINST it, silly man.
No pro-Christian ridicules Christianity. Get real, FL -- you must think that we're ALL very stupid.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#257. To: mehitable (#252)
You're such a deep thinker. Hey, you asked... Glad to oblige... :)
Well, here are a few: -Christmas - great for the economy -The HAIL MARY pass in football -Those cool "WWJD" bracelets that are ever-so-fashionable these days -and Christian Slater (would not have such a cool name without Christianity)
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#258. To: Zipporah (#255)
Zip, And pray, do tell, what IS "The Truth?" I spoke the truth when I answered her question. :) *jumps on the couch and eagerly awaits the answer
Hmm my priorites?? Let's see.. the TRUTH?? :P
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#259. To: Feynman Lives! (#258)
The truth is exactly what I posted.. that the majority of universities and hospitals were started as Christian organizations as were soup kitchens and the majority of social service agencies.
#260. To: Feynman Lives! (#258)
Hey, get off the couch or I'm getting the newspaper.
*jumps on the couch and eagerly awaits the answer
#261. To: Zipporah (#259)
Ok, but what I posted was ALSO the truth.
The truth is exactly what I posted.. that the majority of universities and hospitals were started as Christian organizations as were soup kitchens and the majority of social service agencies.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#262. To: mehitable (#260)
*hops off couch and scampers into the pantry
Hey, get off the couch or I'm getting the newspaper.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#263. To: Feynman Lives! (#261)
I take exception to that..
Ok, but what I posted was ALSO the truth.
#264. To: Feynman Lives! (#262)
and stay away from the cheese - I'm saving that for dinner.
*hops off couch and scampers into the pantry
#265. To: Feynman Lives! (#262)
WTF .. sounds like something from some porn net room.
*hops off couch and scampers into the pantry
#266. To: Zipporah (#265)
ROFLMAO - maybe he used to be in Abu Grabass.
#267. To: mehitable (#266)
LOL!.. hahahaha
ROFLMAO - maybe he used to be in Abu Grabass.
#268. To: Feynman Lives! (#262)
Just so you know, Pontius Pilate/Con Op is a great opponent of your ideas..here's the url:
#269. To: Zipporah (#263)
Zip, With what, exactly, do you take exception?
Ok, but what I posted was ALSO the truth. I take exception to that..
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#270. To: mehitable (#264)
DAMMIT! *veers off onto the patio....
and stay away from the cheese - I'm saving that for dinner
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#271. To: Zipporah (#268)
ok
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#272. To: Feynman Lives! (#269)
Several actually.. but for now I'll say regarding your answer to Mehitable: Well, here are a few: -Christmas - great for the economy -The HAIL MARY pass in football -Those cool "WWJD" bracelets that are ever-so-fashionable these days -and Christian Slater (would not have such a cool name without Christianity)
With what, exactly, do you take exception?
#273. To: Zipporah (#272)
Several actually.. but for now I'll say regarding your answer to Mehitable: Well, here are a few: -Christmas - great for the economy -The HAIL MARY pass in football -Those cool "WWJD" bracelets that are ever-so-fashionable these days -and Christian Slater (would not have such a cool name without Christianity) With what in my response to Mehitable (and thank you for limiting the scope of this conversation to that which we were actually discussing) do you take exception with, and why? Everything I said was the truth, much like your comments.
With what, exactly, do you take exception?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#274. To: Feynman Lives! (#273)
Everything I said was the truth, much like your comments. Gawd you're good at milking every fine point ..I bet you're not married!.. anyway.. you chose to ignore the facts re what Christians have accomplished by belittling basically.. One can disagree but it's less than honest to take that approach.
With what in my response to Mehitable (and thank you for limiting the scope of this conversation to that which we were actually discussing) do you take exception with, and why?
#275. To: Zipporah (#274)
Zip, old chum, That simply is not the case. I did not ignore the benefits that the cult of christianity have brought to our species. Mehitable asked if I saw any benefits - she did not say I had to point to SIGNIFICANT benefits, just benefits. She was not very specific. I believe you are over-reacting to my response. My approach was very honest.
Gawd you're good at milking every fine point ..I bet you're not married!.. anyway.. you chose to ignore the facts re what Christians have accomplished by belittling basically.. One can disagree but it's less than honest to take that approach
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#276. To: Feynman Lives! (#275)
I believe you are over-reacting to my response. My approach was very honest. Of course I dont see it that way .. as you dont see my point.. IMO it wasn't totally honest.. look at the facts no matter where it takes you even if you have to rethink and change your position.
I did not ignore the benefits that the cult of christianity have brought to our species. Mehitable asked if I saw any benefits - she did not say I had to point to SIGNIFICANT benefits, just benefits. She was not very specific.
#277. To: Zipporah (#276)
Zip, How exactly was it not honest? She asked if I saw benefits. I did indeed see benefits. I listed some of those benefits. How were my actions DISHONEST? I realize that YOU feel that they were not honest, but in order to be dishonest, they would have to be, at the very least, false in some way. My statements were NOT false in any way, and therefore were not dishonest.
Of course I dont see it that way .. as you dont see my point.. IMO it wasn't totally honest.. look at the facts no matter where it takes you even if you have to rethink and change your position.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#278. To: Zipporah (#268)
I checked out that thread... yikes! The conduct on that forum makes the stuff here look like kiddie time... I didn't find evidence of what you purported about that pontius fella, but I DID see surprisingly vile conduct from many of the members of THIS site. Most illuminating...
http://postliberty.com/cgi-bin/latestcomments.cgi
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#279. To: Feynman Lives! (#277)
just wondering why you're referring to Zipporah as "old chum." you do know she's female?
#280. To: christine (#279)
Christine, Zip's gender was of no concern to me, and no I did not know she was female. I referred to Zip as 'old chum' as a friendly gesture. Now that I do know that Zip is a she, I shall choose a new affectionate appellation for her. Thanks for the heads up. Monty
just wondering why you're referring to Zipporah as "old chum." you do know she's female?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#281. To: Feynman Lives! (#280)
you're welcome, Richard. :P
#282. To: Feynman Lives! (#278)
The conduct on that forum makes the stuff here look like kiddie time... I didn't find evidence of what you purported about that pontius fella, but I DID see surprisingly vile conduct from many of the members of THIS site. Most illuminating.. Most illuminating? Vile conduct? Now it seems youre being a tad judgemental .. a moral higher ground? Based on what?
I checked out that thread... yikes!
#283. To: christine (#281)
Christine, Now, you may not have been aware that though I am a fan of Richard Feynman, my name is Monty. I thought I told you this earlier, but hey, now ya know. :)
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#284. To: Zipporah (#282)
We are all judgemental, humans are meaning making machines, it is what we do. Based upon what? Well, one of the first things I saw was a thread about Jethro Tull Violating Mod Ethics.
Most illuminating? Vile conduct? Now it seems youre being a tad judgemental ..
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#285. To: Feynman Lives! (#284)
Jethro Tull OWNS that site.. it was nonsense.
#286. To: All (#284)
Then I saw one where Jethro Tull started a thread that DELIBERATELY made fun of another member and suggested that that member had not had sex in the last 10 years. That is pretty vile and inappropriate conduct. Taking a potshot at someone is one thing, but to post a WHOLE thread attacking them, that is another. I could go on....
Based upon what?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#287. To: Feynman Lives! (#284)
And I shouldve asked though as well.. if we all are judgemental there must be some measurement..something to judge conduct .. so if there is no God..then how can one judge one way or another as to what is 'good' and what is not?
#288. To: Feynman Lives! (#283)
Full Monty Undercover :)
#289. To: Feynman Lives! (#286)
That is pretty vile and inappropriate conduct. Taking a potshot at someone is one thing, but to post a WHOLE thread attacking them, that is another. I could go on.... People dont have to stay there.. they enjoy the banter etc.. just as some enjoy arguing ..just on a different level.
Then I saw one where Jethro Tull started a thread that DELIBERATELY made fun of another member and suggested that that member had not had sex in the last 10 years.
#290. To: Zipporah (#285)
And apparently he feels free to call people all sorts of vile things like dumbfuck, prick, asshole, etc... Wow, for a guy who pretends to be a christian, he SURE is ain't ACTING like one.
Jethro Tull OWNS that site.. it was nonsense.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#291. To: Feynman Lives! (#286)
all involved over there enjoy the give and take. it's a parody site. now ya know. ;)
#292. To: Zipporah (#289)
So that somehow justifies the conduct? How does it make the conduct less vile? Just because you and your buddies think talking about raping nuns is enjoyable banter... just on a different level... does that make it now perfectly fine for all to view? YOU directed me to that vile site, and I saw the true colors of some of the SUPPOSED christians on this site. Interesting...
People dont have to stay there.. they enjoy the banter etc.. just as some enjoy arguing ..just on a different level
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#293. To: christine (#291)
Information that would have been MUCH more useful BEFORE directing me to the site. Thanks, Christine, for letting me know. :)
all involved over there enjoy the give and take. it's a parody site. now ya know. ;)
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#294. To: christine (#288)
Huh? I don't get it. I never saw The Full Monty.
Full Monty Undercover :)
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#295. To: Feynman Lives! (#292)
How does it make the conduct less vile? Just because you and your buddies think talking about raping nuns is enjoyable banter... just on a different level... does that make it now perfectly fine for all to view? YOU directed me to that vile site, and I saw the true colors of some of the SUPPOSED christians on this site. Interesting... Raping nuns?? what? I have no clue what you're talking about.. It's an open forum.. If you dont want to view it, then don't simple as that.
So that somehow justifies the conduct?
#296. To: Feynman Lives! (#207)
I think what you are looking for is for someone to say the Bible is the word for word infallible, final authority on all matters of the Christian faith and practice. The problem with that thought is that Sacred Scripture does not make that claim about itself. Folks will/have/do contort St Paul's message to St Timothy to mean the above when St Paul is actually reminding St Timothy to keep and remember the Traditions he was taught as a child and to know the Scriptures (he was taught as a child- The Old Testament) are God Breathed and profitable for teaching, etc. When St Paul wrote that to St Timothy, I doubt most of the New Testament had been written yet. The idea of a cannon of New Testament Scripture more than likely would have been very foreign to St Paul. If the Bible as we know it today is the final, literal, word for word final infallbile authority on all matters of faith and practice then Christians from 33AD to about 500AD are finding things a little warm and toasty because they did not have access to the Bible as a whole. The Old Testament, a couple Gospels and letters, the rest was based on the Tradition, teaching (written and oral) and practices from the Apostles and their disciples themselves. We know the New Testament is valid, is real, is true because the Church confirms it. The Bible is the product of the Church, not the other way around. Keep things within the context of Tradition (and I speak of the Eastern Orthodox Tradition- what little I know of). We could find out tomorrow that Al Gore wrote the Book of Romans. Free Republic would probably sponser a book burning. To the Eastern Church, it would not matter, the Church has already confirmed and validated the book and its content as a whole. Or, if one reads Proverbs quite literally, one can draw the conclusion the Wisdom is the Mother of God and that we worship a Quadrinity rather than a Trinity. We know that's not the case! Or, the Gospels record two temple cleanings- two entirely different versions of the same account. On their face, obvious discrepencies. Remember what I said, the Gospels are not purely historical journalistic, blow-by-blow accounts of events. They were written years after retrospectively in consideration of the Cross. A theology was already in place in light from people who were clueless about events "then" who are "now" retracing those steps in the full light and rememberence of Christ. They are written from an already shared and common Tradition and experience. The Gospels share a remarkable harmony in all actuality- as they should. You have another question about the Trinity. You cited Christ's words, "I and that Father are one," and then go to "The Father is greater than I". I am not as well versed on the mysteries of the Trinity as others are, so this is my best attempt to answer your question in my own words. I am "Scooter". I am a person. I am a man. I am a son. All three share the same essence and none of these three can be separated. If I describe myself in the sense of a person, a human being, there is more of a significant qualifier there rather than me describing myself as someone's son. If I walk into an interview and my resume simply says "son of..." and I introduce myself soley as "son of...", I won't get very far. If on that resume I describe myself as the person and talk about myself as the person, I just might get that job. This is how the essence of me as a person is greater than the essence of me as someone's son. Yet both are still of the same essence.
#297. To: Zipporah (#287)
WOW.. .now you have opened a HUGE can of worms... We can judge one another REGARDLESS of whether or not there is a god, Zip. The existence, or lack thereof, of one or many gods does not preclude our ability to make our own assessments of situations. When people get together in groups, they form societies. Those societies try to keep the most people happy by making 'laws' that SAY what is to be considered Good and Bad in that society. Now, that said, what ONE society say is good is OFTEN considered bad by another society. There are no universally good or bad things, just perceptions of a moment in time. Look at the bible, at one point it was accepted that if your kid talked back to you, you could KILL them for doing so, and if you touched the skin of a dead pig, you were also put to death. Luckily, perceptions can change.
if we all are judgemental there must be some measurement..something to judge conduct .. so if there is no God..then how can one judge one way or another as to what is 'good' and what is not?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#298. To: Zipporah (#295)
If you dont want to view it, then don't simple as that. You asked me what I thought was vile conduct, and then you told me I was wrong for having my own opinion of what I felt was vile. I gave you an example of how that PREMISE does not hold. (remember premises from earlier?) It is as simple as that.
have no clue what you're talking about.. It's an open forum..
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#299. To: Feynman Lives! (#297)
We can judge one another REGARDLESS of whether or not there is a god, Zip. The existence, or lack thereof, of one or many gods does not preclude our ability to make our own assessments of situations. When people get together in groups, they form societies. Those societies try to keep the most people happy by making 'laws' that SAY what is to be considered Good and Bad in that society. Now, that said, what ONE society say is good is OFTEN considered bad by another society. There are no universally good or bad things, just perceptions of a moment in time. Look at the bible, at one point it was accepted that if your kid talked back to you, you could KILL them for doing so, and if you touched the skin of a dead pig, you were also put to death. Luckily, perceptions can change. Judge based on what? Your idea of what is right and wrong? Where do you think our laws came from?
WOW.. .now you have opened a HUGE can of worms...
#300. To: scooter (#296)
(2)You cited Christ's words, "I and that Father are one," and then go to "The Father is greater than I". I am not as well versed on the mysteries of the Trinity as others are, so this is my best attempt to answer your question in my own words. I am "Scooter". I am a person. I am a man. I am a son. All three share the same essence and none of these three can be separated..... (1)That is circular reasoning. The bible is true because the organization that GIVES us the bible SAYS it is true. It is akin to saying 'I can prove to you my imagniary friend is real by simply telling you that he is because I say he is." (2)Your analogy does not hold water. Jesus says he is god, and he also says that god is more powerful than he is. That is a CONTRADICTION, not a restatement of the same point from differing viewpoints. Scooter, I appreciate your trying to address the topic, but your response does not lend any resolution to the matter. You yourself say that the bible is flawed. Thank you for your contribution, however.
(1)We know the New Testament is valid, is real, is true because the Church confirms it. The Bible is the product of the Church, not the other way around.
Utterly ridiculous and without any merit whatsoever.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#301. To: Feynman Lives! (#298)
I gave you an example of how that PREMISE does not hold. (remember premises from earlier?) It is as simple as that. Excuse me?? That was NOT what you were doing .. this is what you said: " Just because you and your buddies think talking about raping nuns is enjoyable banter.." So yet again.. where's the honesty?.. Now thats what I see as vile.. dishonesty.
You asked me what I thought was vile conduct, and then you told me I was wrong for having my own opinion of what I felt was vile.
#302. To: Zipporah (#299)
Zip, my sweet, I am CRYSTAL clear on where our laws came from. What Law IS. Laws are rules which govern how everybody - you, your family and friends - live and behave. If there were no laws, there would be a danger that many arguments or disputes would be settled by force. We would live in a society where the strongest and most powerful people could do what they wanted. So that you don't think I am pulling this out of my butt (next to the sandwich I hid there for a snack later), I will give you the definition of "LAW" straight out of Black's Law Dictionary. The entire definition takes up a little more than one full page and I won't bore you with the whole thing. However, there IS one paragraph that stands out for this discussion: "Law. [... 6th Edition, 4th paragraph:] In old English jurisprudence, "law" is used to signify an oath, or the privilege of being sworn; as in the phrases "to wage one's law," "to lose one's law." And it is this phrase that brings me to my main point, which is this: All law is voluntary, and most laws don't apply to most people. While that may sound silly, think about it… After all, we live in the United States of America, and this country has a long history of laws going back for more than two centuries. Not to mention that those laws are mostly based on English jurisprudence, going back much further. There are those that go back even further still. The court system of China originated from the Xia Dynasty (2100-1600 B.C.). With the formation of the Xia kingdom, China evolved from a society of prehistoric tribe into a feudal system of social classes. From approximately the 2100 B.C., the ancient law system began to take its form and began the long journey of evolution. Through more than a thousand years from Xia, Shang, Xi Zhou and Chun Qiu, the law of China evolved from a system which based heavily on common practices to a well defined court system. The ancient laws of common practices include the laws of fate, accusation and testimony. So, clearly ALL law does not come from the same source. Society dictates the law for a given people at a given time. Now, does this bold statement mean that mean we can just go around, willy nilly, ignoring every law on the books? Of course not. Nor would we want to. Society has developed a lot of those laws for our mutual protection. Some of them are important. So how do we know which ones to follow, and which to ignore? What Law is Not Before we explore further into what law is, let's clear up what it is not. There are lots of definitions, and we need to be speaking the same language. Blackstone's Commentaries has this to say: "Meaning of law.-- Law, in its most general and comprehensive sense, signifies a rule of action; whether animate or inanimate, rational or irrational. Thus we say, the laws of motion, of gravitation, of optics, or mechanics, as well as the laws of nature and of nations. And it is that rule of action, which is prescribed by some superior, and which the inferior is bound to obey." (Jones' Blackstone, Bancroft-Whitney Co., 1915) Laws of nature have long been lumped in with laws of man, and termed collectively "The Law." I believe this is done to intentionally confuse the masses. A deep-seated subconscious belief is created in a man's mind, that the whole body of man's law is as unbending and absolute as the law of gravity. As surely as the sun rises and sets every day, all of a king's subjects must follow the king's laws. Violating one of the king's laws is therefore subconsciously compared with the planets suddenly spinning out of alignment. "Help! The universe must be put back into balance!" LOL It is this confusion that me absolutely MUST erase, before we can understand the nature of law. We must separate in our minds the "facts" of nature, which are absolute, from laws made by man. Otherwise we'll never understand be able to have a substantive discussion about that which is the truth about law. Look at the second part of Blackstone's definition. It presupposes the existence of a "superior" who has the authority to tell people what to do, and what not to do. Where did such a superior get his authority? Sir William Blackstone was a British subject, so he recognized the British Crown as his superior. What about Americans? Who are our superiors? The American Declaration of Independence declares: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal. . ." I didn't see any part in there about an earthly superior. Society has the final say at any given time as to what is good and what is evil. Judge based on what? Your idea of what is right and wrong? Where do you think our laws came from?
Imagine what it would be like without laws - it would be like a game of football or hockey or basketball where the rules were ignored by the players. It would be chaos, and probably quite dangerous. A proper game could not go ahead without the players agreeing on basic rules.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#303. To: Zipporah (#301)
Zip, come on now, this was an analogy, not a factual statement.
Just because you and your buddies think talking about raping nuns is enjoyable banter.."
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#304. To: Feynman Lives! (#303)
No it wasnt a factual statement in any way shape or form.
Zip, come on now, this was an analogy, not a factual statement.
#305. To: Zipporah (#304)
Of course it wasn't...
No it wasnt a factual statement in any way shape or form.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#306. To: Zipporah (#299)
I told you my thoughts on the topic... what are yours?
Where do you think our laws came from?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#307. To: Feynman Lives! (#306)
Now on to the facts.. where do our laws come from?
I told you my thoughts on the topic... what are yours?
#308. To: Zipporah (#307)
Zip, you didn't read my post. I just explianed to you where our laws came from. You were going to tell me YOUR version.
Now on to the facts.. where do our laws come from?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#309. To: Feynman Lives! (#308)
My version?? The structure of our government as well as our laws were founded in biblical law.. btw I missed your post if you in fact did give your version.
#310. To: Rabbi Feynman Lives! (#306)
I want to put a SOHC 427 into a 71 pinto, make it mid-engined. Will I need the cloth or plastic headliner to make the package work right?
I told you my thoughts on the topic... what are yours?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#311. To: Feynman Lives!, Zipporah, christine, Jethro Tull (#280)
Chum means shark bait in all the movies I watch.Zip's gender was of no concern to me, and no I did not know she was female. I referred to Zip as 'old chum' as a friendly gesture.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#312. To: Dakmar (#311)
Chum means shark bait in all the movies I watch.
#313. To: Zipporah (#309)
Zip, sorry to disappoint, but no, they were not. While there is significant influence of biblical law in the current law, it was NOT the foundation. This is a COMMON misconception. There is a tendency on the part of many theists to assume that the burden of proof is on the nontheist when it comes to the issue of law and morality. Thus, the individual who operates without a theological base is asked to justify his so doing — the assumption of the theist being that no morality is possible in the absence of some form of "higher" law. However, I am most curious to sit back and try to see you make your case.
The structure of our government as well as our laws were founded in biblical law
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#314. To: Zipporah (#312)
“It seems like Flynt's trying to stick it to Congress,” Weiss said. “I don't know what I'd call it. Childish, perhaps.” Expecting Congress to represent Americans is un-American? How did we get here?
Daniel Weiss, a senior analyst for media and sexuality for the conservative religious group Focus on the Family, says that members of Congress who don't want the mailings should work with the Postal Service to make them stop. And if that doesn't work, they should ask the Justice Department to investigate whether the magazine is obscene and have it blocked.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#315. To: Dakmar (#311)
LOL Dakmar, "Chum" means pal if you lived in England for any amount of time. I was not referring to her as my old pile of fishblood and bits... LOL
Chum means shark bait in all the movies I watch.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#316. To: Dakmar (#314)
How did we get here? Heck if I know.. it's the FR effect..
Expecting Congress to represent Americans is un-American?
#317. To: Feynman Lives! (#315)
HEY I'm offended.. prove that isnt what you meant...
I was not referring to her as my old pile of fishblood and bits... LOL
#318. To: Feynman Lives! (#315)
For those Hardy enough to rest on their Laurels? Stan, is that you?
"Chum" means pal if you lived in England for any amount of time.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#319. To: Zipporah (#316)
Who or what is an FR?
Heck if I know.. it's the FR effect..
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#320. To: Dakmar (#318)
ROFL! Good one!
For those Hardy enough to rest on their Laurels? Stan, is that you?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#321. To: Dakmar (#319)
Good.. good.. you've gone thru deprogramming and came out with flying colors..
Who or what is an FR?
#322. To: Dakmar (#319)
I don't know either, Dakmar. They refer to a LOT of acronyms around here that make no sense to me. They need a key at the top of the page.
Who or what is an FR?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#323. To: Zipporah (#317)
I feel, after much careful thought and consideration, that the proper response to your comment is.... PPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTT!
HEY I'm offended.. prove that isnt what you meant...
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#324. To: Zipporah, Feynman Lives! (#289)
There have been some posters who do not like this forum because there is not enough arguing; they enjoy arguing so they end up somewhere like LP where there are all sorts of opinions and then fighting often results.
People dont have to stay there.. they enjoy the banter etc.. just as some enjoy arguing ..just on a different level.
#325. To: Feynman Lives! (#322)
Horsehockey! Have you ever heard of Lucianne Goldberg?
I don't know either, Dakmar. They refer to a LOT of acronyms around here that make no sense to me.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#326. To: scooter (#296)
Some of those inconsistencies bother me too, I read your explanation but I still don't get it. If Jesus is the same as his father, how can the father be greater?
You have another question about the Trinity. You cited Christ's words, "I and that Father are one," and then go to "The Father is greater than I".
#327. To: Diana (#324)
I'm going to rent a 4 X 4 and drive over my state governor if the us attacks Iran. What do you think, dark blue?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#328. To: Dakmar (#325)
Uh... I am gonna go with "No" on that one. But MAD props for the "horsehockey" line!
Horsehockey! Have you ever heard of Lucianne Goldberg?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#329. To: Diana (#326)
That's why I like meher baba, he just says be nice to one another.
Some of those inconsistencies bother me too,
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#330. To: Diana (#326)
Well, Diana, it just goes to show that the bible is flawed.
Some of those inconsistencies bother me too, I read your explanation but I still don't get it. If Jesus is the same as his father, how can the father be greater?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#331. To: Feynman Lives! (#328)
Poor rookie, why dont you google lucianne + forum, get back to me later.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#332. To: Dakmar (#331)
I'll do it... but why am I so scared?
Poor rookie, why dont you google lucianne + forum, get back to me later.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#333. To: Feynman Lives! (#330)
Looks like you've got a fan club! LOL http://postliberty.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=2303&Disp=0
#334. To: Feynman Lives!, Diana (#330)
Diana, is it true you are a biblical literalist?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#335. To: Feynman Lives! (#332)
Lax social reserves?
I'll do it... but why am I so scared?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#336. To: Feynman Lives!, Zipporah (#297)
I think humankind is in a constant state of evolving, or devolving as in the case of the Ik people of Uganda, though I'm not sure what happened to them to make them as they are today. But I believe most societies agree that "good" is life, peace, harmony and good health, and anything that leads to that is good. "Bad" leads to disease, destruction and death, so actions that lead to suffering are bad. All societies have their own take on cultural issues, for instance they eat dogs in parts of Asia and that concept would horrify many of us, yet in India they must be horrified at the idea of us eating cows. But there is a universal code of sorts when it comes to good and bad, which in all human beings can lead to prosperous life or suffering and death. This can occur on an individual basis or as a whole in a society. Societies are considered organisms and they can become sick too from too much bad behavior.
There are no universally good or bad things, just perceptions of a moment in time. Look at the bible, at one point it was accepted that if your kid talked back to you, you could KILL them for doing so, and if you touched the skin of a dead pig, you were also put to death. Luckily, perceptions can change.
#337. To: Dakmar (#335)
LOL... ok, I checked it out... not as scary as I feared...
Lax social reserves?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#338. To: Diana (#336)
Not true. There is no universal code when it comes to suffering, death, good and bad. Here is a wonderful example for you to work with: The dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan. Was this ONE action a UNIVERSALLY GOOD or UNIVERSALLY BAD action?
But there is a universal code of sorts when it comes to good and bad, which in all human beings can lead to prosperous life or suffering and death.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#339. To: Feynman Lives! (#302)
Do you know what happened to the Ik people of Uganda?
There are those that go back even further still. The court system of China originated from the Xia Dynasty (2100-1600 B.C.). With the formation of the Xia kingdom, China evolved from a society of prehistoric tribe into a feudal system of social classes. From approximately the 2100 B.C., the ancient law system began to take its form and began the long journey of evolution. Through more than a thousand years from Xia, Shang, Xi Zhou and Chun Qiu, the law of China evolved from a system which based heavily on common practices to a well defined court system. The ancient laws of common practices include the laws of fate, accusation and testimony.
#340. To: Zipporah, Feynman Lives! (#307)
Our collective conscience which tells us it's wrong to go around killing and raping, looting and such as it leads to much misery and is disruptive to a community.
Now on to the facts.. where do our laws come from?
#341. To: Diana (#340)
Diana, I can see that you have a good feeling on what YOUR moral strictures are, but your beliefs are not the beliefs of everyone else. Again, I ask you to answer this question: The dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan. Was this ONE action a UNIVERSALLY GOOD or UNIVERSALLY BAD action?
Our collective conscience which tells us it's wrong to go around killing and raping, looting and such as it leads to much misery and is disruptive to a community.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#342. To: Diana (#340)
The basis is from the Mosaic code.
Our collective conscience which tells us it's wrong to go around killing and raping, looting and such as it leads to much misery and is disruptive to a community.
#343. To: Zipporah (#342)
Zip, Can you answer my question about the dropping of the atomic bomb?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#344. To: Feynman Lives! (#341)
relenquish thee demon of the dumbed downer shits, in the name of dale!
The dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan. Was this ONE action a UNIVERSALLY GOOD or UNIVERSALLY BAD action?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#345. To: Dakmar (#329)
That's pretty much what I believe. I read one of his books someone got, I found myself agreeing with his ideas on how we should live. I'm not sure why he gave up speaking for a period of time though. I think our whole existence here is a test of sorts, then we continue on.....
That's why I like meher baba, he just says be nice to one another.
#346. To: Feynman Lives! (#343)
I dont get your point..
The dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan. Was this ONE action a UNIVERSALLY GOOD or UNIVERSALLY BAD action?
#347. To: Dakmar (#329)
What do you know about the Ik people?
#348. To: Feynman Lives!, Phaedrus (#15)
You are both right and both wrong. :^) I'm currently intrigued by the notion that Jesus, the Christ (the latter of Greek origin, BTW) reconciled Greek and some eastern Mesopotamian philosophy with the Jewish religion. That the Brits were not Christian until well past mid-millenium and the common law of the Hundreds made an important contribution to English and American law cannot be denied. Likewise, the Christian influence on Europe and Britian certainly shaped the culture of their American descendents. It's kind of like arguing who the baby looks like the most... when little big noise looks a little like both and a little like neither.
Freedom is a social skill.
#349. To: Zipporah, Feynman Lives! (#333)
Looks like you've got a fan club! LOL http://postliberty.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=2303&Disp=0 Cute!!!
To: Feynman Lives!
#350. To: Zipporah (#346)
You don't need to understand the POINT of a question in order to answer it, Zip. Or are you saying that you don't know how to answer a question? The issue before you is a bianary funtion. If it is true that there IS a universal right and wrong, good or bad, in the universe... then answer my question about the dropping of the atomic bomb.
The dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan. Was this ONE action a UNIVERSALLY GOOD or UNIVERSALLY BAD action? I dont get your point..
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#351. To: Zipporah (#346)
Post 346... heh. That's what happens when you leave a thread open for 24 hours and then respond to the last post on your obsolete screen. ;)
Freedom is a social skill.
#352. To: Diana (#349)
http://postliberty.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=2303&Disp=0 Cute!!! Let them know I am not interested. Flattered, but not interested.
To: Feynman Lives! Looks like you've got a fan club! LOL
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#353. To: Dakmar (#344)
ROFLMAO!!! Dakmar... who is Dale?
The dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan. Was this ONE action a UNIVERSALLY GOOD or UNIVERSALLY BAD action? relenquish thee demon of the dumbed downer shits, in the name of dale!
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#354. To: Feynman Lives! (#350)
The issue before you is a bianary funtion. If it is true that there IS a universal right and wrong, good or bad, in the universe... then answer my question about the dropping of the atomic bomb. Do you mean binary?
You don't need to understand the POINT of a question in order to answer it, Zip. Or are you saying that you don't know how to answer a question?
#355. To: Diana (#345)
My parents never went to church, and my dad openly mocked all religions. I hate socialists too, if that's any comfort.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#356. To: Anthem (#351)
LOL! That'll teach you to refresh :P
Post 346... heh. That's what happens when you leave a thread open for 24 hours and then respond to the last post on your obsolete screen. ;)
#357. To: Feynman Lives! (#353)
Who do you think Dale is?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#358. To: Zipporah (#354)
OOOOOH, if I had a pillow filled with butterscotch pudding, I would SO smack you with it right now! :P Thank you, GRAMMAR NAZI, for the correction. Now, will you kindly answer the question?
Do you mean binary?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#359. To: Anthem (#351)
that would be 348 and i'm laughing Post 346... heh. That's what happens when you leave a thread open for 24 hours and then respond to the last post on your obsolete screen.
at with you. :P
#360. To: Dakmar (#357)
Roy Rogers girlfriend?
Who do you think Dale is?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#361. To: Feynman Lives!, Zipporah (#358)
she prefers chocolate.
OOOOOH, if I had a pillow filled with butterscotch pudding,
#362. To: Feynman Lives! (#338)
I would say universally bad, as the war was about over and I doubt those bombings would have changed the outcome. Apparently Japan was about to cave in anyway. I see your point, this was never meant to be a perfect world and everything in it is flawed. I still maintain though that there are universal laws of good and evil among humans, though groups still clash with others resulting in wars. I don't think good and bad are subjective, as everyone feels, including you, and no one wants to suffer, or see those they love suffer or die. If people were mere robots with no mind or soul, there would still be a code of right and wrong as even dogs and horses and other social animals have strict rules of conduct. I think the most important clue in this whole thing is that this is not a perfect world.
The dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan. Was this ONE action a UNIVERSALLY GOOD or UNIVERSALLY BAD action?
#363. To: Feynman Lives! (#358)
Thank you, GRAMMAR NAZI, for the correction. Now, will you kindly answer the question? No, make that spelling Nazi.. anyway, I just wanted to be sure I understood what you were saying.. So you're asking if I believe that it was universally wrong to drop nukes on Japan.. I would answer yes in my opinion it was.
OOOOOH, if I had a pillow filled with butterscotch pudding, I would SO smack you with it right now! :P
#364. To: christine (#361)
Dammit! And I had this one half filled already! *tosses soiled pillowcase over the deck and onto the street below
she prefers chocolate.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#365. To: Zipporah (#354)
weren't they the jazz band at the 2004 special olympics? Yes, that was uncalled for, I know I'm going to hell. Bury me by the waterslides, ok?
bianary funtion
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#366. To: Diana (#362)
The dropping of the atomic bomb cost 110,000 lives. However, it SAVED, at a minimum, 3 MILLION lives. So, which was the greater good? A LOT of people HAD to die to end that war... Was it a greater thing to save those 110,000 lives or the 3,000,000 who would have died in the invasion of Japan?
This is to both Diana and Zip.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#367. To: Dakmar (#365)
i'll plant a tree over ya.
Bury me by the waterslides, ok?
#368. To: Feynman Lives! (#360)
I can't think of any other famous people named Dale either.
Roy Rogers girlfriend?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
#369. To: Diana (#362)
Sad to say, but in the real world, there ARE indeed people who want to suffer and to see others suffer and die. This is why there is no universal morality.
I don't think good and bad are subjective, as everyone feels, including you, and no one wants to suffer, or see those they love suffer or die.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#370. To: Dakmar (#368)
Dale Carnegie. How to Win Friends and Influence People.
can't think of any other famous people named Dale either.
#371. To: Dakmar (#368)
Chip and Dale. The world's two most famous Gerbils. But they arn't really people.
I can't think of any other famous people named Dale either.
#372. To: Feynman Lives! (#366)
prove it.
However, it SAVED, at a minimum, 3 MILLION lives.
#373. To: Feynman Lives!, Zipporah (#350)
When I say univeral laws, I'm talking about laws which are basically the same around the world, not the whole universe. I just wanted to point that out as you can be a nit-picker with words. I meant universal as in world-wide, I can get out the dictionary again. I decided to go ahead and do that, so here is a definition of universal: 2 of, for, affecting all or the whole of something specified; not limited or restricted
The issue before you is a binary funtion. If it is true that there IS a universal right and wrong, good or bad, in the universe...
#374. To: Feynman Lives! (#352)
Well so far there is only a title. But you have a fan there, one of the Todds.
Let them know I am not interested.
#375. To: Dakmar (#355)
Same here, my father was a devout atheist and my mother just wanted to read all the time. She wasn't an atheist but was not at all interersted in religion. I didn't even know why people went to church until I was about ten.
My parents never went to church, and my dad openly mocked all religions.
#376. To: Feynman Lives! (#300)
This time I would like to explain a little the attitude of the early Church towards the Bible. One of the very first anti-Christian ideas was called Gnosticism. Originating with Simon Magus (see Acts, 8), the Gnostics claimed to possess the "true" but "secret" teachings of Christ and the Apostles. They accused the early Church Fathers of Suppressing these "mystic teachings" and deliberately keeping people in bondage to ignorance. They said Christian doctrines were too simple, and they preferred elaborate and exotic explanations to the pure doctrines of the Church. Another difference between Christianity and Gnosticism was this: from the time of the Apostles the Church had rejected other religions as being false or even demonic; only faith in Christ and cooperation with God's grace can save. But Gnostics said that all · 'religions are basically the same and therefore all are in some sense true. Gnosis, or secret knowledge, was all a man needed; once he possessed this knowledge he would be "saved" and could then do whatever else he wanted. Gnostics attacked the Church and tried to lure away many of the faithful. The Church had to defend its flock. One of the "generals" in this battle for the souls of men (for that was exactly what it was) was the Church Father, St- Irenaeus of Lyons (140-202 A.D.). He had been a disciple of the martyred St. Polycarp, who was in turn a disciple of the Apostle John. St. Irenaeus carefully studied the ideas of the Gnostics. He saw that they wished to supplement Apostolic teaching with unwritten, secret doctrines and additional "gospels" (other than those written by the four Evangelists); He came to the conclusion that the Church must do two things: first, the question must be settled as to what the authority for a Christian is. Second, a fixed list of authentic Scriptures must be drawn up. He realized that the Holy Scriptures, which until then had been widely scattered throughout the Christian communities, simply must be brought together and given some kind of system or order. So St. Irenaeus became the first Holy Father (so far as we know) to give a list of Scriptures that almost completely corresponds to the one we use today! In doing this, the Saint made it possible for Christians to avoid the false "scriptures" Of the Gnostics, or others who were outside the Church; this helped all true believers to know what was true and what was false, in keeping with the words of another Father, St. Jerome, who wrote: "The truth has set bounds...but evil and falsehood multiply without end." On what basis did St, Irenaeus draw up his list of accepted Scripture? What was His authority for including some writings and excluding others? He answers this question himself, and his answer is very important. He said that the Church of Christ may accept only those writings and teachings which are held in common by the churches of apostolic origin. Isn't it logical, he asked, to assume that if the Holy Apostles had known of "hidden mysteries ," "they would have handed them down especially to those to whom they were entrusting the churches themselves"? And would not those first successors have handed those teachings on to their successors, and so on? But the fact is, St. Irenaeus continues, the successors to the Apostles do not teach such things at all; nor do they use the strange "gospels" which Gnostics use, "We appeal," he wrote, to that tradition [about written Scripture and oral tradition] which has come down from the Apostles and is guarded by the succession of bishops in the churches." Therefore, we use only those Scriptures that are used by the successors to the Apostles, and we teach only that which they teach and which had been believed, in unbroken succession, from the time of the Apostles. A "successor to the Apostles," furthermore, is a bishop that can trace his ordination back to one of the Holy Apostles--not a man who calls himself a bishop but who is actually only "self-appointed." What is fascinating is that nowhere does St. Irenaeus say that the Bible alone is the authority for Christians ! On the contrary! He says that it is the authority of the bishops of the Church that validates Holy Scripture. He writes: "Even if the Apostles, had not left their Scriptures to us, ought we not to follow the rule of the tradition which they handed down to those to whom they committed the churches?" This early Holy Father's teachings concerning the Bible and the Church are absolutely crucial for those today who wish to find Christ's True Church. St. Irenaeus puts it this way: "Since there are so many clear testimonies, we should not seek from others for the truth which can easily be received from the Church. It was there, in-the Church, that the Apostles, like a rich man making a deposit, fully bestowed everything that belongs to the truth. She is the entrance to life; all others are thieves and robbers. Therefore we ought to avoid them, but to love with the greatest love the things of the Church, and so lay hold of the tradition of the truth." Sincerely in Christ, Fr. Alexey Young
(1)That is circular reasoning. The bible is true because the organization that GIVES us the bible SAYS it is true. It is akin to saying 'I can prove to you my imagniary friend is real by simply telling you that he is because I say he is." Utterly ridiculous and without any merit whatsoever.
#377. To: Diana (#373)
If it is not the same EVERYWHERE, than it is not universal.... hence the word "Universal." Look at your dictionary definition... "affecting ALL or THE WHOLE of something" Not just the majority, ALL. "basically" the same is not "The Same." This is the problem with saying that there are universal moral imperatives.
When I say univeral laws, I'm talking about laws which are basically the same around the world, not the whole universe.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#378. To: Feynman Lives! (#366)
However, it SAVED, at a minimum, 3 MILLION lives. So, which was the greater good? A LOT of people HAD to die to end that war... Was it a greater thing to save those 110,000 lives or the 3,000,000 who would have died in the invasion of Japan? My answer is that it's impossible to answer that. If we knew for a FACT that what you said is so, if 110,000 lives were lost to save 3 million lives, than it would have been for the greater good. However it's not certain that Japan would have invaded the US; they were pretty beat down by that time and I doubt they had the capability to invade the continental US. It's only possible to answer such a question if the facts are truly known or established. When dealing with history so much is left up in the air. We would have to have have been there, listened to all conversations pertaining to the plans to bomb, been there and understood what the Japanese were planning and talking about in secret meetings and so on. Otherwise it's impossible to know the facts or the truth. I believe evidence shows the bombings didn't have to happen since the Japanese were tired and wiped out by that time.
The dropping of the atomic bomb cost 110,000 lives.
#379. To: scooter (#376)
Scooter, How lovely of you to take the time to post the work of Father Young. However, that does not address the issue at hand. There is nothing outside of the bible that verifies most of the accounts of the bible. For example: Outside of the bible there is NO evidence of Moses existing, or the Jews being enslaved by the Egyptians, NOR their escape from Egypt. Hmmm, not a peep anywhere else but in that book... No record in ALL of the Egyptian history, and we have uncovered quite a bit of it. It wasn't like the bible says the Jews were enslaved for a weekend... it was for generations... but somehow the Egyptians failed to mention this ANYWHERE?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#380. To: Diana (#378)
My answer is that it's impossible to answer that. Diana, More support to say that there can be no universally right or wrong actions. The Japanese were training their children to fight with sticks in the event of an invasion before we dropped the bomb. American soldiers would have been forced to shoot children that were attacking them with POINTED STICKS... Remember, they found Japanese soldiers on islands 15 YEARS after the war, who STILL believed that the war was on... they were a fanatical nation, ready to give their lives for the Emperor.
A LOT of people HAD to die to end that war... Was it a greater thing to save those 110,000 lives or the 3,000,000 who would have died in the invasion of Japan?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#381. To: Feynman Lives! (#380)
And your point (pun intended)? Had American soldiers been forced into that awful situation, the "right" action swould have been to survive at any cost. End of argument.
More support to say that there can be no universally right or wrong actions. The Japanese were training their children to fight with sticks in the event of an invasion before we dropped the bomb. American soldiers would have been forced to shoot children that were attacking them with POINTED STICKS...
#382. To: Feynman Lives!, diana (#380)
You are crazy. Yes, if you really believe this swill you are posting, you are off balance.. The real Feynman would punch you in the nose, and HARD.
he Japanese were training their children to fight with sticks in the event of an invasion before we dropped the bomb. American soldiers would have been forced to shoot children that were attacking them with POINTED STICKS...
#383. To: Diana (#378)
Defeated totally. The peasents in the rual areas were eating tree bark to survive. The bombings by FDR seemed to be a convienent demonstration of the new power the US had to impress the Russians, for the Euorpean theater. No one knew how many we had.
believe evidence shows the bombings didn't have to happen since the Japanese were tired and wiped out by that time.
#384. To: Feynman Lives! (#380)
So if someone breaks into your Dallas apt, tonite, sprays insecticide up your nose, rapes you and slits your throat on the way out, it's just an OK kinda thinggy,as there no U w or r. I don't want you on any camping trip I 'm going on. You are so smart, you are outwitting yourself.
More support to say that there can be no universally right or wrong actions.
#385. To: Feynman Lives!, diana (#380)
Forced to kill children with sticks! O yeh FL, "forced". The devil made me do it!!!! I had to kill the 10 yo cause he had a POINTED STICK!!!! Gad it was awful - the child was going to punch the dreaaded "POINTED STICK" (TM, FL) through the tank and pierce my boil!! it was horrible!!!!) It is getting funny, FL, you are the comedian!! Keep em comming!!.
The Japanese were training their children to fight with sticks in the event of an invasion before we dropped the bomb. American soldiers would have been forced to shoot children that were attacking them with POINTED STICKS...
#386. To: Feynman Lives! (#380)
OMG, they were using PENCILS. The nerve of those terrorists.
POINTED STICKS...
#387. To: tom007 (#384)
I don't want you on any camping trip I 'm going on. You are so smart, you are outwitting yourself. Tom, Wow... you actually looked like you were thinking hard there. Too bad you didn't make any sense. If someone broke into my apartment and did all those wonderful things to me, then, according to the laws of the City of Dallas, the State of Texas, and the United States of America, they would be breaking the law and, if caught and convicted, they would be punished. Just because there is no UNIVERSAL wrong or right does not matter. WE decide what WE feel is wrong or right in a given situation. Society passes laws, and then they change them to meet the needs of the society at that time. 200 years ago, it was ILLEGAL for black people to learn to read. 150 years ago, it was LEGAL to buy and sell people, and to kill those people that you bought and sold. 125 years ago, it was ILLEGAL for women to vote. 75 yeas ago it was ILLEGAL to buy or sell alcohol. 50 years ago it was LEGAL to drive a car that did not have seatbelts installed in it. 25 years ago it was LEGAL to smoke in any public bar in America. No universal right or wrongs actually GIVES us the freedom to change the laws to suit society, which is how it should be. The Law is a living thing. So, as amusing as your analogy was, it was off base. Nice effort, you can have a cookie.
More support to say that there can be no universally right or wrong actions. So if someone breaks into your Dallas apt, tonite, sprays insecticide up your nose, rapes you and slits your throat on the way out, it's just an OK kinda thinggy,as there no U w or r.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#388. To: Dakmar, Feynman Lives! (#368)
Roy Rogers girlfriend? I can't think of any other famous people named Dale either. Dale Bumpers?
To: Feynman Lives!
#389. To: All, Feynman Lives! (#376)
YIKES: I am not the author of my previous post. Source is Here. I forgot to put that link in.
#390. To: Feynman Lives! (#369)
That's why I say the most important clue in all this is that this is not a perfect world because as you point out there is a lot of bad behavior out there. I still think there is a universal morality, it's just that some people do not follow it, and that is why we have to have laws to protect society. I believe some societies are more evolved than others; for instance Sierra Leone is a big mess with gangs running around with machetes to use on people, no real infrastructure, etc. However Netherlands is a very organized country with little crime, not counting the Muslims there. I think we are all put here to learn and grow, and some are behind others.
Sad to say, but in the real world, there ARE indeed people who want to suffer and to see others suffer and die. This is why there is no universal morality.
#391. To: Diana (#388)
Asking me about the Trinity.... I have to admit I am quickly getting into areas that I know little about and any personal thoughts on the matter may lead you (others) astray. I have to attempt to stay consistent with what has been taught by the (Eastern) Church. St John Chrysostom wrote a homily (sermon) about St John 14 and he covers the verse 28 that was originally in question. I'll repost this for you. Take time to read it and re-read it again 4 or 5 times. Read it slowly. That's not to insult your intelligence, its just his writing style is not familiar to most. And it is in the KJV Enlgish to boot. Ver. 26. "The Comforter, whom the Father shall send in My Name, He shall teach you."20 "Perhaps these things are not clear to you now, but `He'21 is a clear teacher of them." And the, "remaineth with you" (ver. 17), is the expression of One implying that Himself will depart. Then that they may not be grieved, He saith, that as long as He should remain with them and the Spirit should not come, they would be unable to comprehend anything great or sublime. And this He said to prepare them to bear nobly His departure, as that which was to be the cause of great blessings to them. He continually calleth Him "Comforter," because of the afflictions which then possessed them. And since even after hearing these things they were troubled, when they thought of the sorrows, the wars, His departure, see how He calmeth them again by saying, Ver. 27. "Peace I leave to you."22 All but saying, "What are ye harmed by the trouble of the world, provided ye be at peace with23 Me? For this peace is not of the same kind as that. The one is external, is often mischievous and unprofitable, and is no advantage to those who possess it; but I give you peace of such a kind that ye be at peace with one another, which thing rendereth you stronger." And because He said again, "I leave," which was the expression of One departing, and enough to confound them, therefore He again saith, "Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid." Seest thou that they were affected partly by loving affection, partly by fear? Ver. 28. "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved Me, ye would rejoice because I said, I go unto the Father; for My Father is greater than I." [4.] And what joy would this bring to them? What consolation? What then mean the words? They did not yet know concerning the Resurrection, nor had they right opinion concerning Him; (for how could they, who did not even know that He would rise again?) but they thought that the Father was mighty. He saith then, that "If ye are fearful for Me, as not able to defend Myself, and if ye are not confident that I shall see you again after the Crucifixion, yet when ye heard that I go to the Father, ye ought then to have rejoiced because I go away to One that is greater, and able to undo all dangers." "Ye have heard how I said unto you." Why hath He put this? Because, He saith, "I am so firmly confident about the things which come to pass, that I even foretell them, so far am I from fearing." This also is the meaning of what follows. Ver. 29. "And now I have told you before it come to pass, that when it is come to pass, ye might believe that I Am."24 As though He had said, "Ye would not have known, had I not told you. And I should not have told you, had I not been confident." Seest thou that the speech is one of condescension? for when He saith, "Think ye that I cannot pray to the Father, and He shall presently give Me more than twelve legions of Angels" (Matt. xxvi. 53), He speaketh to the secret thoughts of the hearers; since no one, even in the height of madness, would say that He was not able to help Himself, but needed Angels; but because they thought of Him as a man, therefore He spoke of "twelve legions of Angels." Yet in truth He did but ask those who came to take Him a question, and cast them backwards. (c. xviii. 6.) (If any one say that the Father is greater, inasmuch as25 He is the cause of the Son, we will not contradict this. But this doth not by any means make the Son to be of a different Essence.) But what He saith, is of this kind: "As long as I am here, it is natural that you should deem that I am26 in danger; but when I am gone `there,'27 be confident that I am in safety; for Him none will be able to overcome." All these words were addressed to the weakness of the disciples, for, "I Myself am confident, and care not for death." On this account, He said, "I have told you these things before they come to pass"; "but since," He saith, "ye are not yet able to receive the saying concerning them, I bring you comfort even from the Father, whom ye entitle great." Having thus consoled them, He again telleth them sorrowful things,
#392. To: Feynman Lives! (#380)
Remember, they found Japanese soldiers on islands 15 YEARS after the war, who STILL believed that the war was on... they were a fanatical nation, ready to give their lives for the Emperor. Right, they were downright weird in that regard (according to our cultural norms), but it shows how desperate and beaten down they were that they were training little kids how to attack with sticks. I think the majority of their military might was used up by then. I read something interesting, in the years before the war, the culture in Japan became quite brutal and militaristic where formerly it wasn't nearly that bad. This seems to happen to various countries from time to time.
More support to say that there can be no universally right or wrong actions. The Japanese were training their children to fight with sticks in the event of an invasion before we dropped the bomb. American soldiers would have been forced to shoot children that were attacking them with POINTED STICKS...
#393. To: scooter (#389)
Scooter, I have come to realize in a very short time that you are rarely the ACTUAL author of things that you post. You can't speak for yourself, it seems.
am not the author of my previous post. Source is Here. I forgot to put that link in
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#394. To: Diana (#390)
Ok. Name ONE thing that is UNIVERSALLY morally wrong.
I still think there is a universal morality,
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#395. To: All (#394)
Name ONE thing that is UNIVERSALLY morally wrong You see, Diana, All that needs be done to disprove whatever you might try to offer is to find ONE person who disagrees. Then it is not UNIVERSAL, just WIDELY ACCEPTED.
I still think there is a universal morality, Ok.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#396. To: tom007, Feynman (#232)
You got it, tom. Feuman's mission in life is to feel important. Every jerk is full of his own importamce.
You COLULD have generated a useful dialogue here on the history truthfulness of the bible, but I don't think that was ever your intent.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
#397. To: Feynman Lives! (#394)
Only drinking a dozen beers every night. Thats bad. Very morally wrong. You need to drink at LEAST two dozen. Oh, killing your mother and your children, drying them and making them into beef jerky, then selling them at a below market price. That's really bad too.
Name ONE thing that is UNIVERSALLY morally wrong.
#398. To: Feynman Lives! (#394)
Name ONE thing that is UNIVERSALLY morally wrong. Killing your father, screwing your mother and eating your kids. Most folks would agree about that.
#399. To: Feynman Lives! (#394)
Rape. Incest. Pedophilia. Watching TLBSHOW at a buffet table.
Name ONE thing that is UNIVERSALLY morally wrong.
"The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all." - John F. Kennedy
#400. To: Feynman Lives! (#395)
The one person who disagrees is probably insane. So what? What you don't seem to understand about morals, or the Bible or much else, is that a community of people need to come up with some rules to live by and be guided by or they cannot exist as a community. Morals, whether Biblical or otherwise, evolved out of the experiences of people over hundreds if not thousands of years of what kinds of behaviors produced good and desirable results in their communities, and what kinds of behaviors produced undesirable or negative results in their communities. Actions or policies or philosophies that undermined or weakened the community. Sometimes it takes years, decades or even a generation or two to see the effects of a policy. It's not always like eating the wrong berry and dying - it might be more like a subtle poison that takes a long time to kill off a people.
All that needs be done to disprove whatever you might try to offer is to find ONE person who disagrees.
#401. To: 82Marine89 (#399)
That's funny :)
Watching TLBSHOW at a buffet table.
#402. To: mehitable (#398)
laughing...
Killing your father, screwing your mother and eating your kids.
#403. To: Feynman Lives! (#393)
What I want to know from you is WHY you are so buisy hijacking a religion thread and turning it into an ongoing two day flame fight. NONE of the other Atheists on this board does this. (I know of two besides yourself.) I have some VERY STRONG SUSPICIONS about and your reason for being here.
#404. To: Coral Snake (#403)
Its TBLSHOW, your pal.
#405. To: buckeroo (#404)
Cant be tubbs. He can spell.
#406. To: buckeroo (#404)
I doubt that this is TLB, a ClownPosse member, an LPer or a Freeper. I'm very familiar with how most of these people post and this is something quite different from any of them. I am really thinking PAID SHILL for the Neo-Cons staging one of those attacks on "Progressive" (Liberal), Libertarian and Constitutionalist forums I read about here yesterday. One thing's for CERTAIN, he believes that human rights, responsibilities and morality derive from the STATE in the form of whatever is currently legal and illegal under MAN'S LAW. This attitude is TYPICAL of ALL "New World Order" related movements, Communism, Socialism, Nazism, Fascism, Neo-Conism, Corporatism and all the rest.
#407. To: Coral Snake (#406)
Feynman (Richard) is indeed a paid shill of some sort. No one who would stumble in at random has the ability to post hundreds of times a day and with such volume to the responses. Likely that he has everything arranged, canned responses filed neatly on his hard drive, to make it all flow smoothly. Disruptor is a gentle word for his ilk. You didn't see where he got busted on some little rinky-dink site spouting his same BS about Michelle, the girl who was brutalized by Dallas PD. Check it out http://freedom4um.com/cgi- bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=17934&Disp=782#C782
One thing's for CERTAIN, he believes that human rights, responsibilities and morality derive from the STATE in the form of whatever is currently legal and illegal under MAN'S LAW. This attitude is TYPICAL of ALL "New World Order" related movements, Communism, Socialism, Nazism, Fascism, Neo-Conism, Corporatism and all the rest.
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
#408. To: mehitable (#398)
Most, but not all. Most does not make it UNIVERSAL.
Killing your father, screwing your mother and eating your kids. Most folks would agree about that
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#409. To: 82Marine89 (#399)
Rape, incest and pedophilia are not universally morally wrong. Our jails are filled with people who disagree with you. You might have me on watching TLBHSHOW, cuz I don't know what it is, but it sounds so wrong!
Rape. Incest. Pedophilia. Watching TLBSHOW at a buffet table
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#410. To: Coral Snake (#403)
I have some VERY STRONG SUSPICIONS about and your reason for being here. Coral, I never said that I was an atheist, never once. I even denied that I was an atheist when I was first asked. I did not hijack this thread. I made a post and Phaedrus took exception to it. After that, some of his buddies tried to make it a gang-bang, but they have failed miserably in their efforts. Now we are having a lively discussion about morality, while trying to avoid people like Jethro who are only interested in having a flame war. You are free to have whatever suspicions you wish, of course, and I hope that they make your life better.
What I want to know from you is WHY you are so buisy hijacking a religion thread and turning it into an ongoing two day flame fight. NONE of the other Atheists on this board does this. (I know of two besides yourself.)
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#411. To: Feynman Lives! (#387)
When you say that there is no absolute truth Ive just got to ask you.... are you absolutely sure of that? Because it is totally illogical for you to make such a statement since you are making an absolute statement that in itself denies absolute truth. You are in essence saying that the very fact there is no absolute truth is the one absolute truth you can count on. Yer logic is flawed weedhopper. lmao
#412. To: Feynman Lives! (#411)
Oh yeah I forgot....have a cookie. ;)
#413. To: BTP Holdings (#407)
BTP, I didn't get busted by anyone on that thread, sorry to say. As much as I hate to your bubble, but I am not "Richard" from that thread about the skater. I really could not care less what happens to either party in that matter. As for my being a 'paid shill' as you call it (do people still SAY "paid shill" in this day and age?)... who would pay me to post? WHY would they pay me to post? What could POSSIBLY be gained by posting about philosophical issues like morality? And how is it that you know that people are actually PAID to post? I have never heard anything more idiotic in my life. PAY someone to post about issues of religion, morality and philosophy? You are just as paranoid as Jethro is. If you are looking for people who DISRUPT, look no further than yourself, Jethro, AKA Stone and the rest of you who are CONSISTENTLY dragging any thread I post in off topic, posting your lies about me and making all threads about your misguided notions about what or who you mistakenly think I am. Wow, I had no idea I had such power over you simpletons. YOU are the ones disrupting the flow.
Feynman (Richard) is indeed a paid shill of some sort. No one who would stumble in at random has the ability to post hundreds of times a day and with such volume to the responses. Likely that he has everything arranged, canned responses filed neatly on his hard drive, to make it all flow smoothly. Disruptor is a gentle word for his ilk.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#414. To: Feynman Lives! (#410)
You don't have to say you are an Atheist. Your own posts that there is no universal absolute and uninfringable rights, responsibilities and morality apart from MAN'S law, thoughts and appetites proves that contention. As far as my suspicions go I think you may be some paid post hack for the Neo- Cons or some other NWO front group. Funny I read an article about such people just at around the time you showed up here. ;c)
#415. To: Wrench (#411)
I did not say that there was no Absolute TRUTH, young one. I said that there is no Universal MORALITY. I know you were having too much fun with your little comment to notice the HUGE difference between the two, so I thought I would quitely point it out to you. In the future, DO try to read AND comprehend before you post. No cookie for you!
When you say that there is no absolute truth Ive just got to ask you.... are you absolutely sure of that? Because it is totally illogical for you to make such a statement since you are making an absolute statement that in itself denies absolute truth. You are in essence saying that the very fact there is no absolute truth is the one absolute truth you can count on. Yer logic is flawed weedhopper. lmao
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#416. To: Feynman Lives! (#415)
Sure you did nuts, dont backpeddle....be a man....grow a set....be honest....have another cooke nutzie and chill.
#417. To: Coral Snake (#414)
As far as my suspicions go I think you may be some paid post hack for the Neo- Cons or some other NWO front group. Funny I read an article about such people just at around the time you showed up here. ;c) Coral, For me to be an Atheist, I DO have to say that I am one, especially if I say that I am NOT one. I did not EVER post that there is no universal absolute and unfringable rights, responsibilities and morality apart from MAN'S law, thoughts and appetites proves that contention. I said, plain and simply, that there is no Universal Morality. You are trying to spin this outside the scope of my statement, Coral. I don't even know what the NWO is, it sounds like a rap group. And again, who the hell would PAY someone to post to this group? WHY? For WHAT purpose? ROFLMAO. You guys are WAY too paranoid.
You don't have to say you are an Atheist. Your own posts that there is no universal absolute and uninfringable rights, responsibilities and morality apart from MAN'S law, thoughts and appetites proves that contention.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#418. To: Wrench (#416)
Please show me where I said there was no absolute TRUTH.
Sure you did nuts, dont backpeddle....be a man....grow a set....be honest....have another cooke nutzie and chill.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#419. To: Feynman Lives! (#415)
There is NO DIFFERENCE!!! You are practicing SITUATIONAL ETHICS, the so called "morality" of THE NEW WORLD ORDER!!! Just more proof that you are s shill boy for some tart of that particular enterprise.
#420. To: Feynman Lives! (#418)
Are you really that thick ?
#421. To: Coral Snake (#419)
You are practicing SITUATIONAL ETHICS, the so called "morality" of THE NEW WORLD ORDER!!! Just more proof that you are s shill boy for some tart of that particular enterprise. Coral, If you can't see the different between TRUTH and MORALITY, then you have a serious learning disability. Truth can be proven, morality is just an opinion. The NWO is the New World Order? ROFLMAO! Did you just make that up yourself? What the hell are you talking about now?
There is NO DIFFERENCE!!!
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#422. To: Wrench (#420)
Wrench, I asked you to show me where I stated that there are NO Absolute Truths. ..... ..... ..... ..... Still waiting.... .... .... ....
Are you really that thick ?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#423. To: Wrench (#416)
STILL waiting on you to show me. Come on...be a man....grow a set....be honest....have another cooke nutzie and chill
Sure you did nuts, dont backpeddle....
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#424. To: Feynman Lives! (#423)
At first I thought you were being intellectually dishonest, now I understand..... you're an idiot.....my mistake. Have another cookie.
#425. To: Wrench (#424)
You, like the rest of your Klan, seem to only be able to ACCUSE... you don't ever SUBSTANTIATE anything. YOU were the one who ASSERTED that I said there were no Absolute Truths. Then you went and made a big fool out of yourself because of your CLEAR mistake. NOW you try to blow it off as if it didn't matter... Typical response from one who can not defend his own actions. At first I thought you were being intellectually dishonest, now I understand..... you're an idiot.....my mistake.
At first I thought you were being intellectually dishonest, now I understand..... you're an idiot.....my mistake. Have another cookie.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#426. To: Feynman Lives! (#425)
OK Fey ...Ill play. Let me ask you something....are there logical absolutes? For example, is it a logical absolute that something could exist and also not exist at the same time?
#427. To: Feynman Lives! (#426)
Hey where didja run off to....Im going to answer your question if you'll work with me here.
#428. To: Wrench (#427)
Wrench, You said that you had PROOF that I said there were NO ABSOLUTE TRUTHS. I never said any such thing. Why not just admit it instead of your clumsy attempt to trap me?
Hey where didja run off to....Im going to answer your question if you'll work with me here OK Fey ...Ill play. Let me ask you something....are there logical absolutes? For example, is it a logical absolute that something could exist and also not exist at the same time?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#429. To: Feynman Lives! (#428)
Im not trying to trap you... now answer my question please.
#430. To: Wrench (#429)
Not until you answer mine.
Im not trying to trap you... now answer my question please.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#431. To: Feynman Lives! (#430)
I will show you how absolute truth and moral absolutes are one in the same ....if you will permit me.
#432. To: Wrench (#431)
Once you admit that I did NOT say that there were No Absolute Truths, sure, then I will play your game.
I will show you how absolute truth and moral absolutes are one in the same ....if you will permit me.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#433. To: Feynman Lives! (#432)
I am saying they are one in the same ergo if you deny one you deny the other but if its a matter of semantics with you...ok you did not say the exact words...."I dont believe in absolute truth"....you did say you dont believe in MORAL absolutes which equates to the same thing IMHO......there now
Once you admit that I did NOT say that there were No Absolute Truths, sure, then I will play your game.
#434. To: Wrench (#433)
Absolute Truths and Universal Morality are not the same thing. It is your folly if you wish to try to show otherwise, it is a tired argument, but you may proceed when you feel you are ready. Begin...
you did say you dont believe in MORAL absolutes which equates to the same thing IMHO......there now
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#435. To: Feynman Lives! (#434)
Are there logical absolutes?
#436. To: Wrench (#435)
*sigh..... this is SO tired... Want me to have the whole conversation for you? This is the equivalent argument to "If god is all powerful, can he make a rock so big he can't lift it?" "Absolute truth" is defined as inflexible reality: fixed, invariable, unalterable facts. For example, it is a fixed, invariable, unalterable fact that there are absolutely no square circles and there are absolutely no round squares. You can't logically argue against the existence of absolute truth. To argue against something is to establish that a truth exists. You cannot argue against absolute truth unless an absolute truth is the basis of your argument. Consider a few of the classic arguments and declarations made by those who seek to argue against the existence of absolute truth… "There are no absolutes." First of all, the relativist is declaring there are absolutely no absolutes. That is an absolute statement. The statement is logically contradictory. If the statement is true, there is, in fact, an absolute - there are absolutely no absolutes. "Truth is relative." Again, this is an absolute statement implying truth is absolutely relative. Besides positing an absolute, suppose the statement was true and "truth is relative." Everything including that statement would be relative. If a statement is relative, it is not always true. If "truth is relative" is not always true, sometimes truth is not relative. This means there are absolutes, which means the above statement is false. When you follow the logic, relativist arguments will always contradict themselves. So... now you are gonna try to use the classic argument to try to prove the existence of god... go ahead... if you must... but it doesn't work.
Are there logical absolutes?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#437. To: All (#436)
See... the problem is this... truths are irrefutable, morality is an opinion.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#438. To: Feynman Lives! (#436)
Sure am...sure does... How can logical absolutes which are by nature conceptual, exist in a purely physical universe....they cannot be measured, put in the test tube, weighed, or captured yet, they exist. How can these conceptual absolute truths exist in a purely physical universe...without a God?
So... now you are gonna try to use the classic argument to try to prove the existence of god... go ahead... if you must... but it doesn't work.
#439. To: Wrench (#438)
Give me an example.
How can logical absolutes which are by nature conceptual, exist in a purely physical universe....they cannot be measured, put in the test tube, weighed, or captured yet, they exist. How can these conceptual absolute truths exist in a purely physical universe...without a God?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#440. To: Feynman Lives! (#439)
IMO conceptual absolutes logically must exist in the mind of an absolute God because they cannot merely reside in the properties of matter in a purely naturalistic universe. And since the logical absolutes are true everywhere all the time and they are conceptual, it would seem logical that they exist within a transcendent, omnipresent, being. If there is an absolute God with an absolute mind then he is the standard of all things – as well as morals. Therefore, there would be moral absolutes.
#441. To: Wrench (#440)
Wrench... you are not playing the game... GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF A CONCEPTUAL LOGICAL ABSOLUTE. You are still going to lose, but you may learn something from playing the game. YOU asked me to play...
IMO conceptual absolutes logically must exist in the mind of an absolute God because they cannot merely reside in the properties of matter in a purely naturalistic universe. And since the logical absolutes are true everywhere all the time and they are conceptual, it would seem logical that they exist within a transcendent, omnipresent, being. If there is an absolute God with an absolute mind then he is the standard of all things – as well as morals. Therefore, there would be moral absolutes.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#442. To: Feynman Lives! (#377)
This is what you wrote: "If it is not the same EVERYWHERE, than it is not universal.... hence the word "Universal." Look at your dictionary definition... "affecting ALL or THE WHOLE of something" Not just the majority, ALL. "basically" the same is not "The Same." This is the problem with saying that there are universal moral imperatives". ******************** But I had found the following in the dictionary about one of the definitions of universal which can imply the world as a whole: "I decided to go ahead and do that, so here is a definition of universal: 2 of, for, affecting all or the whole of something specified; not limited or restricted" Diana posted on 2006-02-16 22:00:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply Whole of something specified, I'd say the earth fits that.
#443. To: Feynman Lives! (#377)
Could you explain that a little further? I'm not sure what the same is not the same means, and how it relates to universal moral imperatives or lack thereof.
"basically" the same is not "The Same." This is the problem with saying that there are universal moral imperatives.
#444. To: Diana (#442)
Diana, The earth is NOT the whole of the universe. I see where you were going with this, and I understand your point of view, but the earth is just one planet, in a solar system, in a galaxy of 100 BILLION stars and hundreds of TRILLIONS of planets, which is one of 80 BILLION galaxies in the known universe. To say that the earth is the whole of something specified is like saying that one of the peas on your plate is the UNIVERSAL pea on your plate. If it is true for that pea, then it should be true for ALL the peas on your plate. This does not work for the earth.
Whole of something specified, I'd say the earth fits that
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#445. To: Feynman Lives! (#444)
I never said it was! I said it fits the definition of "universal" from the Webster's dictionary.
The earth is NOT the whole of the universe.
#446. To: Diana (#443)
I'm not sure what the same is not the same means, and how it relates to universal moral imperatives or lack thereof. Diana, Not a problem. "basically the same" is not the same as "the same" 2 + 1 = 3 2 + 2 = 4 We can see that they are similar, but not the same. However, if we look at 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 + 1 = 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,001 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 + 2 = 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000000,000,000,000,002 We can see that these two numbers are "Basically the same" but not "THE SAME" Does that help?
basically" the same is not "The Same." This is the problem with saying that there are universal moral imperatives. Could you explain that a little further?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#447. To: Wrench (#440)
Oh... and after you give me an example, please show me PROOF to support your OPINION that "conceptual absolutes logically must exist in the mind of an absolute God because they cannot merely reside in the properties of matter in a purely naturalistic universe" Why can they not merely reside in the properties of matter in a purely naturalistic universe? There is no obvious contradiction that would prevent it.
IMO conceptual absolutes logically must exist in the mind of an absolute God because they cannot merely reside in the properties of matter in a purely naturalistic universe. And since the logical absolutes are true everywhere all the time and they are conceptual, it would seem logical that they exist within a transcendent, omnipresent, being. If there is an absolute God with an absolute mind then he is the standard of all things – as well as morals. Therefore, there would be moral absolutes.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#448. To: Feynman Lives! (#444)
Here are a few more definitions of universal from Webster's dictionary: 4 broad in knowledge, interests, abilitites, etc. 5 that can be used for a great many or all kinds, forms, sizes, etc.; highly adaptable [a iniversal voltage regulator] 6 used, intended to be used, or understood by all
#449. To: Feynman Lives! (#437)
Both are equally important for a society to survive.
See... the problem is this... truths are irrefutable, morality is an opinion.
#450. To: Diana (#448)
Diana, Yes, those are all different definitions for the word. However, you need to look at the term in the situation in which it is being employed to know which definition to use. Universal morality certainly is not referring to "broad in knowledge, interest or ability." It is not sufficient to say that a UNIVERSAL morality is one "that can be used by a great many" or that is "highly adaptable." And to say that a UNIVERSAL morality is one which is "intended to be used or understood by all" does not apply as it is to ambiguous a definition. "Intended to be used" does not imply that it MUST be used, it is essentially stating an opinion. Thanks. :)
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#451. To: Diana (#449)
Agreed, but they are VERY different things and are not synonomous.
Both are equally important for a society to survive.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#452. To: Feynman Lives! (#446)
We can see that these two numbers are "Basically the same" but not "THE SAME" Does that help? Okey. That problem with words again.
2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 + 2 = 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000000,000,000,000,002
#453. To: Diana (#452)
Diana, Our entire existence is contained inside of words, it is how we communicate. There is a huge and insigificant difference between something being BASICALLY the same and THE SAME. If you got married, and your husband was replaced one day with a guy who looked and acted BASICALLY the same as your husband, you would notice and it would more than likely be an issue of great concern to you. The your husband and his impostor are BASICALLY THE SAME, but not THE SAME, and that is an issue of major importance to you. If you order coffee and they don't have cream, but they do have skim milk, then it probably would NOT be a big deal that cream and skim milk are BASICALLY the same. They are BASICALLY THE SAME, but not THE SAME, yet you are not concerned. Does THAT help?
That problem with words again.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#454. To: Feynman Lives!, Scooter (#450)
That is an assumption on your part that I don't understand the differece between the definitions and their usage. I was letting you know of some more definitions that were in my dictionary under "universal", that's all. My brain is too tired to think at this point, I need to go to bed. Scooter thankyou for that text, I read it but I think it will be better to read it again tomorrow. FL you have A LOT of energy.
Yes, those are all different definitions for the word. However, you need to look at the term in the situation in which it is being employed to know which definition to use.
#455. To: Feynman Lives! (#453)
Are you a defense lawyer?
#456. To: Diana (#455)
He's a troll, Diana. Best to ignore him. Everyone should Bozo Filter him; sooner or later he will give up and leave, when no one is responding to his posts.
Are you a defense lawyer?
"I am to misbehave" -- Mal Reynolds, Firefly
#457. To: YertleTurtle, Diana (#456)
I've never used the bozo filter, but I think this is a time for it.
Everyone should Bozo Filter him
#458. To: Feynman Lives! (#408)
Most, but not all. Most does not make it UNIVERSAL. So tell me what cultures allow killing your father, screwing your mother and eating your kids?
Killing your father, screwing your mother and eating your kids. Most folks would agree about that
#459. To: mehitable (#458)
HEY ..what's the problem?? Maybe he's a member of the Church of Satan?? :P
So tell me what cultures allow killing your father, screwing your mother and eating your kids?
#460. To: Diana (#455)
Probably.. he's
defending the indefensible LOL
Are you a defense lawyer?
#461. To: Zipporah (#459)
True, or he could be an Illuminati, in which case he gets a promotion with each of those.
#462. To: mehitable (#458)
Mehitable, It is not about CULTURES. Universal Morality fails if ONE person feels contrary to you about any given action. This is the inherent problem with universal qualifiers.
So tell me what cultures allow killing your father, screwing your mother and eating your kids?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#463. To: Zipporah (#460)
Zip, What am I defending that is indefensible?
Probably.. he's defending the indefensible LOL
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#464. To: Feynman Lives! (#462)
It is not about CULTURES. Universal Morality fails if ONE person feels contrary to you about any given action. This is the inherent problem with universal qualifiers. So why does it matter if one crazy person thinks it's okay to kill your father, screw your mother and eat your children? WHat is the possible significance of that to the larger society? Or do you think that the opinion of one person that it is okay to kill your father, screw your mother and eat your children morally equates to the opinion of all the rest of the people who don't agree with that?
Mehitable,
#465. To: Feynman Lives! (#463)
You are obviously supportive of and promoting moral relativism, which is precisely as you have outlined - that if ONE person disagrees with the moral principles of an entire society and rejects them and breaks them, that position is morally equivalent to the position of the greater society.
#466. To: mehitable (#464)
Mehitable, Why it matters is that it disproves the theory of Universal Morality. You can EASILY make a case for a SOCIAL Morality, that is based upon the OPINIONS of any given society, but you can't make a case for a UNIVERSAL morality, in which EVERYONE agrees that "X is Y in all situations." Morality is established a posteriori, not a priori. A new born baby does not care one way or the other whether or not you kill your father, screw your mother or eat your children. It does not understand the concepts and has not formed AN OPINION on the matter. The opinion of one person that it is okay to kill your father, screw your mother and eat your children ABSOLUTELY morally equates to the opinion of all the rest of the people who don't agree with that. Because they are JUST OPINIONS, not facts. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. This is another reason why Universal Morality fails, because Morality is BASED upon opinion, not fact. YOU calling someone who disagrees with you "Crazy" is just your OPINION of that person's state of mind, it is not a factual statement. There are many examples in society where people called those who disagreed with society "CRAZY" in order to discount what they had to say. Many of them were scientists who were "CRAZY" enough to think things like "The earth is NOT the center of the universe," or "The sun does NOT revolve around the earth." There is no such thing as a Universal Morality, sorry.
So why does it matter if one crazy person thinks it's okay to kill your father, screw your mother and eat your children? WHat is the possible significance of that to the larger society? Or do you think that the opinion of one person that it is okay to kill your father, screw your mother and eat your children morally equates to the opinion of all the rest of the people who don't agree with that?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#467. To: mehitable (#465)
Mehitable, Once again you are incorrect. I am not supportive of, nor am I promoting moral relativism, I simply understand that the position is tennable. What I am stating is plain - that a UNIVERSAL morality does not exist. By contrast, I am a large supporter of SOCIETAL morality, even though I understand that the underlying principle is fluid.
You are obviously supportive of and promoting moral relativism, which is precisely as you have outlined - that if ONE person disagrees with the moral principles of an entire society and rejects them and breaks them, that position is morally equivalent to the position of the greater society.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#468. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#467)
We know that what you are saying is untrue just by canvassing various societies throughout history - none have supported the behaviour I referred to. The only individuals who would engage in such behavior have been denounced and treated as criminals in every single society on earth - and you cannot find an exception. If you are (and you ARE) equating the moral positions of criminals with those of the vast majority of society, you are a moral relativist, whether you admit or acknowledge that or not. Stop lying by cutting hairs. You're gonna end up bald.
What I am stating is plain - that a UNIVERSAL morality does not exist. By contrast, I am a large supporter of SOCIETAL morality, even though I understand that the underlying principle is fluid.
#469. To: mehitable (#468)
Stop lying by cutting hairs. You're gonna end up bald. ROFL... Mehitable, you just ignored my entire post, and then you PROVED it correct. Wow. Most impressive. You keep proving it... you fall back to the morality of the "VAST MAJORITY OF SOCIETY," which, as we all know is NOT Universal. Like I said, I agree with and believe in SOCIETAL MORALITY, because it exists. You just proved AGAIN that there is no UNIVERSAL MORALITY. I am not a moral relativist at all, Mehitable, I am just smart enough to see that Universal Morality is a myth. I am not lying at all, I am showing you The Truth.
The only individuals who would engage in such behavior have been denounced and treated as criminals in every single society on earth - and you cannot find an exception. If you are (and you ARE) equating the moral positions of criminals with those of the vast majority of society, you are a moral relativist, whether you admit or acknowledge that or not.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#470. To: Feynman Lives!, (#469)
Realistically there are things, such as injunctions against killing your father, screwing your mother and eating your children, that are universally true or moral among all sane people and the only people who violate those things are people who are INSANE or CRIMINALS. So ultimately what you are doing is saying that the moral positions taken by insane people or criminals are equal to the moral positionsof the rest of society. Just to say that there are people whose moral positions differ from the rest of society is...MEANINGLESS...as you are referring to criminals. So what is your point in debating these things? What are you trying to prove? You seem to argue for the sake of arguing - I don't see any ultimate point in what you have been saying. What is the point of your stating that there is no Universal Morality?
I am not a moral relativist at all, Mehitable, I am just smart enough to see that Universal Morality is a myth.
#471. To: mehitable (#458)
Mehitable, For the record, many cultures, for example, the Aztecs allowed killing your father - incest is COMMONPLACE in many cultures, for example, one of the socioligists who worked on the Kinsey report showed in his extensive study that the childhood in much of India begins with the young child being regularly masturbated by the mother, and it virtually all non-Western cultures, the child sleeps in the family bed for several years and regularly observes sexual intercourse between the parents. Boys as well as girls are reported as being masturbated and raped by the men in the family, including fathers, older brothers, uncles and cousins. He found that by the time children are four or five, they are usually taken to bed at night by others in the extended household - and MANY cultures have been shown to condone cannabilism. So... even though we are talking about UNIVERSAL morality, I thought I would share that with you.
So tell me what cultures allow killing your father, screwing your mother and eating your kids?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#472. To: mehitable (#470)
This is an unsubstantiated judgement. Define "All Sane People." As I said, society has a habit of calling those who disagree "criminals." Gallileo would have been considered one of these "CRIMINALS" in your view. And there are people who take moral positions that differ from the rest of society, Mehitable. Most of the people on this board take moral positions that differ from the rest of society. You have people here who think hemp should be legalized, that the current government are crooks and should be overthrown, that all guns should be legal, etc. Does that mean that they are ALL CRIMINALS and therefore MEANINGLESS? You might want to be careful... YOU are one of those Meaningless Criminals... Sorry, but there simply is no Universal Morality. Societal Morality, sure, but not Universal.
universally true or moral among all sane people and the only people who violate those things are people who are INSANE or CRIMINALS.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#473. To: mehitable (#470)
Mehitable, I am simply being the advocate of truth in this matter. You state, incorrectly, that there IS such a thing as a Universal Morality. I, as the advocate of truth, am here to show you the error of your ways. It is as simple as that.
So what is your point in debating these things? What are you trying to prove? You seem to argue for the sake of arguing - I don't see any ultimate point in what you have been saying. What is the point of your stating that there is no Universal Morality?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#474. To: Feynman Lives!, Zipporah, all (#471)
Why do I get the impression that you would love to introduce some of those practices in our culture? While I would have to do some investigation into your allegations about the Aztecs as I have never heard or read that they allowed killing your father, your other assertions are not what I said at all. Masturbating children does not equate to screwing your mother. As your own sexual practices are probably...deviant...you may not understand the difference, but the rest of us do. Moreover, I don't know of any cannibal society in which eating your own children was encouraged, but perhaps you can find some obscure psychotic stone age tribe in Borneo that does. You are a moral relativist. I wish you would just be honest about your own positions. You lie by splitting hairs and trying to cover up what you actually believe about various issues. You are a deceiver, and I think you're probably a pretty evil person, now that I've been observing you and your thinking. You come across all chuckles and feyness, but so did some of the jolliest Nazis. I do hope you are not in any aspect of education. You are not someone I would trust with the minds of the young as I sense you are deeply perverted in your thinking. I don't mean just sexually - I mean intellectually/psychologically. Frankly I'm getting sick of you so I'm going to stop answering your posts. There appears to be no point to your arguments other than the sake of arguing itself. I can do that for a while, but like your posts, it becomes...meaningless.
#475. To: mehitable (#474)
It's nonsense.. and circular reasoning..There is no winning or convincing .. it's not about honest discussion obviously.
#476. To: mehitable (#474)
1>WOW... that is skating on a VERY thin thread... condoned incest is condoned incest. If you want to shut your eyes to it that is fine, I wont press the point further if you are so adamant on denying it. You have been shown. 2> It is clear that there are volumes of things that "you don't know" but your ignorance of the world is no defense against the truth. You never said that eating children had to be "encouraged," just accepted. 3>I am not a moral relativist by any means. I believe in the morality of the society. You are free to stop answering my posts, as you have clearly been shown that your position is untennable and your points have been refuted. Have a good day.
1>Masturbating children does not equate to screwing your mother 2>I don't know of any cannibal society in which eating your own children was encouraged, 3>You are a moral relativist.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#477. To: Zipporah (#475)
Zip, What is circular about the reasoning? Do tell...
It's nonsense.. and circular reasoning..
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#478. To: Zipporah (#475)
The moral of this story is: "Don't feed the trolls". And now I will go update my Bozo list.
#479. To: Feynman Lives!, Zipporah, all (#476)
I think you are a very evil person who knows far too much about masturbating children. And yes, this is the end of our communication. I think I've revealed you for what you are.
#480. To: Zipporah (#475)
Yes, I know. SOme of what I was doing was playing with the fool, but I also wanted to get to point where he would make statements that clearly reveal his mindset and beliefs, which I think he has. I think people like FL are important to be aware of and understand as I think they are a significant source of the moral evil that has been poisoning our society for a generation at least. Now that I feel I've "outed" him, I'm done with him. Throw him on the wagon.
#481. To: mehitable (#480)
What Richard "shared" with us in #471 is his attempt to compare the primitive ways of third world tree monkeys, with those our society Yep, you outet this Deep Ellum friend of Abe Foxman.
#482. To: mehitable (#480)
You have "outed" me? How so? I proved your point to be flat out wrong. You have a very limited understanding of my mindset and my beliefs, Mehitable. But you are free to flee on your wagon if you choose. It is typical for those who have been roundly bested, as you have been, to then say while they retreat into the darkness that they are NOT actually retreating, but that they are excecuting a strategic withdrawl... LOL Whatever you need to believe, sweetie...
Now that I feel I've "outed" him, I'm done with him. Throw him on the wagon.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#483. To: Jethro Tull (#481)
WOW, You are just a full-blown racist, Jethro. I really should not be surprised, but I didn't see that one coming... What amazes me further is that no one will chastise you here for your disgusting belief that your skin color makes you pure. I guess I hit the nail right on the head when I compared you to a Klansman, did you get your new robes yet?
is his attempt to compare the primitive ways of third world tree monkeys,
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#484. To: mehitable (#479)
Mehitable, Unlike you, I am one who takes the time to LEARN about the real world instead of just sitting there and making it up to suit my purposes. I know that although you say that this is the end of our communication, it will not be. You have only revealed that your collasal ignorance of the world around you goes far deeper than you first thought it did.
I think you are a very evil person who knows far too much about masturbating children. And yes, this is the end of our communication. I think I've revealed you for what you are.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#485. To: Feynman Lives! (#483)
Attach this comment to your Klan association and that's the second time today you've made this inference about me. The wheels are coming off, Abe :)
You are just a full-blown racist, Jethro.
#486. To: Jethro Tull (#481)
I think it's time to....starve the troll. BWAAAHAAHAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
#487. To: Jethro Tull (#485)
The reason I make that inference is because, based upon your OVERTLY racist, homophobic and anti-jew statements, I feel that it is more than likely true. Also, you have yet to deny that you are a racist, homophobic, xenophobic bigot. My wheels are firmly in place, but your Emperor's New Clothes are looking a little ragged.
Attach this comment to your Klan association and that's the second time today you've made this inference about me.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#488. To: mehitable (#486)
That's one tactic, and I can't blame anyone for doing that. I like to identify their belief system and then watch them melt. Dick will be a puddle in a day or two.
#489. To: Feynman Lives! (#487)
The reason I make that inference is because, based upon your OVERTLY racist, homophobic and anti-jew statements, I feel that it is more than likely true.
#490. To: Feynman Lives! (#441)
You are still going to lose, but you may learn something from playing the game. Tell me what you mean by "conceptual" and "logical". Thanks.
GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF A CONCEPTUAL LOGICAL ABSOLUTE.
#491. To: scooter (#490)
You will have to ask WRENCH, as he was the one framing that debate.
Tell me what you mean by "conceptual" and "logical". Thanks.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
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