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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Can Christ Followers Save The World From Christians
Source: We Hold These Truths
URL Source: http://www.whtt.org/index.php?news=2&id=709
Published: Feb 6, 2006
Author: Charles E. Carlson
Post Date: 2006-02-15 00:09:52 by Red Jones
Keywords: Christians, Followers, Christ
Views: 4895
Comments: 491

Can Christ Followers save the world from Christians

Charles E. Carlson Feb 06, 2006

Why all the bad news?

The news stories in the world press, from South Africa to Norway, are incredibly negative about the USA. It was not always that way. Once, not long ago, most press was good to the USA. Our generations of military and tourists have been treated like liberators in Germany and Japan, countries we helped to destroy and then rebuilt. But no more, “America” is mud.

This letter is not for everyone. Some already recognize the answer, but many still deny that the USA has become both the awful predator, and the world’s engine of monetary dilution. Less anyone thinks this writer is causing America’s image problem we add these words from a pretty good President, Theodore Roosevelt, who was also a decorated military officer:

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President or any other public official, save to the extent in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country.”

"In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth - whether about the president or anyone else - save in the rare case where this would make known to the enemy information of military value which would otherwise be unknown to him." -Theodore Roosevelt

Jesus gave us parables to help us understand his lessons. We follow his example with a parable about a man and the pet he loves and think he controls, which we liken to our government.

This man discovers, to his horror and dismay, that his family dog has become a nighttime marauder, a predator, slipping out of the yard and pillaging the community, killing other pets and threatening pedestrians, and then jumping back into the backyard to sleep it off. What should the man do: 1) Feed the dog more and hope he will stay home? 2) Build a higher fence, cement-in the yard and put double locks on every access? (3) Ignore the problem? (4) Put the dog to sleep before someone is hurt?

The pet owner could try the second choice (2), if he has the patience and money, but chances are he will not sleep well at night. It is his responsibility to stop the crimes, even if it means he has to destroy his own dog. It is not up to the police to solve the crime, nor is it up to the neighbors to correct it. In truth, he should do it himself because he is responsible, not the taxpayers who pay for the animal shelter.

Similarly, it is up to the most responsible Americans to correct criminal acts against its world neighbors, and if we do not then the blood of the USA’s every crime is on our hands. It is not good enough to say, "Oh, this is a great place to live...our standard of living is the envy of the world...even if we do make some mistakes."

It is not our place to recite all the wrongs of our government, we would never finish, nor do we defend any other government for it murderous faults. All are corrupt to some degree. We do defend the right to life of our neighbors, as described in our own Declaration of Independence. Life itself is a gift from God...this is not (for followers of Christ) a subjective, take it or leave it observation, it is an absolute.

A friend and supporter recently called to ask me if I might tone down what he considered my obvious favoritism toward the Palestinian people, whom we have come to call the Philistines. He told me I sound so biased that someone who did not know me might think "they are paying me." In fact, it is people like my caller who is supporting We Hold These Truths, so we listen.

My reply was: Thanks, but I cannot help what I say or the passion that shows through. I have been to the land of the Philistines and seen. Now I am their champion as long as they are suppressed by our own government.

Our government is the marauding dog. I told my friend I would try to do a better job of explaining my bias, but I must not stop defending the innocent blood that is being shed. This is not to say the Philistines, or their current leaders, Hamas, are perfect, nor to deny they have their criminal element, which they do have. I told a beleaguered Univerisity class the same thing when I stood among them in Gaza City, but it is our government. not theirs, that is the problem.

I have but one point to make. God does not “Will” that this great land become the predator of the world. He expects us to be the good stewards of what we are given. We can stop the marauding animal in our back yards if we will allow God to help us. And, if God does not help us, we need not worry about it, for it should now be obvious to most that we cannot overcome the mass of evil power loosed on the world by our own strength alone.

Our “predator” inside our gates has become a "King Kong behemoth. We can succeed only if we do it God’s way, else we will fail. Abraham Lincoln may have later broken his own rules, but he was dead right when he stated in 1848:

“Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and form a new one that suits them better.”

It seem logical thta God's way is to correct His followers

As we have said over and over again and say now, the self-styled Christian Zionist churches, with some 70 million under their influence, are the logical answer.

We call them Scofieldized churches, others call them Dispensational, or lately Christian Zionists, whatever name you call them, they are the enablers of the monster on the loose in the world. It is Scofieldized churches that feed it; it is they who left the gate ajar at night, and they taught the marauder to vault the highest fence. They hatched a logic and theology that enables ethnic cleansing in the Mideast. Only the Scofieldized church, among all the major religions in the world, believes the acts of the nighttime marauder are Godly, and therefore, encourages it.

In America the members of the Scofieldized churchs are the salt of the earth, the good neighbors we all want, the famliy poeple who care, but they are horrible and criminaly misled and they must be salvaged from God professors to Jesus Christ's followers.

Scofildized Christian Zionists simply refuse to see the blood and torn bodies of victims. One of the Ten Commandments that God is said to have given to Moses is:

"You shall not [no, never] take the name of the Lord your God in vain."

This is exactly what the Scofieldized churches do today by supporting in God’s name that which God abhors, the spilling of innocent blood. Each one allows the abuses that Jesus denied and decried. He said to the Pharisees,

"you will not enter into heaven, and you block the way of anyone who would enter."

Jesus could have been speaking to the pastors today.

What is needed is men who will use any tactic that is legal, moral and Godly to reach into the evangelical church and paint the blood of the victims on its doorways where they cannot overlook it. This is the mission of Pharisee Watch and Project Strait Gate. And how do we achieve such a feat?

God’s churches, if they are of God, should be the salt of the earth, but these millions have lost their savor, and therefore, are:

"fit only to be trodden under the feet of men."

But they can change…most of We Hold These Truth's advisors did. Each Christian Zionist at some point lost his senses in the shouting crowd; they will regain their senses slowly, one by one, church by church…with our/your help. This is our agenda.

Start by watching our one hour presentation, with your friends, right on your computer, or you may buy it for your TV: Our best tool to help you teach, view it free: Why Christian-Zionist cannot work for peace, Interactive fully guided free audio/video.

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#182. To: Feynman Lives! (#164)

Because everyone should note how powerful my ideas are. If they were NOT so powerful, then WHY am I being attacked by all of you?

Get a grip.

tom007  posted on  2006-02-15   23:39:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#183. To: tom007 (#180)

Good Lord Man - get ahold of yourself - do you not think we have been thoughtfull of these ideas before???????

Your arguments are sopmorphic, most of 4um have seen 'em.

Tom,

You certianly do not respond in a manner that remotely suggests that you have seen anything but lockstep adherence to whatever goofy ideas are thrown up against the wall here.

From what I read, people who DARE to disagree are vilified and portrayed as evil and misguided.

So, no, while you may have HEARD these ideas before, you have given them NO THOUGHT.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-15   23:40:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#184. To: Feynman Lives!, all (#181)

Besides Christianity, what other bugs do you have up your ass?

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-15   23:40:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#185. To: All (#182)

Because everyone should note how powerful my ideas are.

Your ideas are the introduction to western civ.

tom007  posted on  2006-02-15   23:40:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#186. To: tom007 (#182)

Because everyone should note how powerful my ideas are. If they were NOT so powerful, then WHY am I being attacked by all of you?
Get a grip.

Simply using an existing argument that furthered my point.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-15   23:41:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#187. To: Red Jones (#176)

no, but I have a Mr. budweiser.

Can I invite you to a Colorado BBQ?

tom007  posted on  2006-02-15   23:43:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#188. To: Diana (#178)

I like to keep an open mind on most issues

Diana,

I could not agree more. Keep an Open Mind! People like Red, AKA Stone, Horsie-boy and Phaedrus do NOT keep an open mind. To them, all who disagree with THEIR beliefs are turning away from the truth of THEIR god and obsessed with making "children of hell" (whatever that means).

Perhaps you should tell THEM what you just told me.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-15   23:44:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#189. To: Red Jones, Feynman Lives!, Mehitable, tom007 (#137)

A lot of people are thinking. This is good

I agree that it's good to have different points of view to consider.

Someone can have a difficult personality, yet add a lot if they have a lot of knowledge to offer. I suspect FL may be a bit pompous but knows a lot, and if anything we can hone our own debating skills as a result of dealing with FL. He/she is an interesting poster if nothing else, and makes threads grow long.

Kind of reminds me of the old days on LP sparing with BAC.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-15   23:45:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#190. To: Feynman Lives! (#188)

Your idiocy preceeds you.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2006-02-15   23:46:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#191. To: Red Jones (#144)

My people" refers to Christians, which includes the FAITHFUL of the Old Testament I agree with you so strongly on this point. The jews who are faithful to the old testament are the same as the believing christians IMHO.

the pharisee christians who believe in taking dominion over the government and killing muslims are a lot like the talmud believing jews who conspire against jesus.

Actually, I realized later that I didn't phrase that correctly.

What I meant was that the faithful in OLD TESTAMENT TIMES, are considered part of the church. There's a passage: I bend my knee to the Lord Jesus Christ, of whom the whole family in heaven and earth are named, as well as Ye are the temple of God, built upon the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ being the chief corner stone thereof. [I probably butchered that, but you know what I mean.]

Now I do HAVE HOPES that Jews who are faithful to the Old Testament, because that is all they know, will be saved, if not by grace, then by God's mercy. Psalm 136 is 26 verses of "his mercy endureth forever", particularly if they were kind to their fellow man, [not just Jews]. I feel the same way about the Muslims. I have met so many who have the light of God in their eyes, and are unassuming, peaceful, and loving. I feel God takes all these things into consideration, and I think they may be judged differently based on the knowledge they were given. And as I said, I don't believe all who call themselves Christian are going to get into heaven.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2006-02-15   23:48:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#192. To: tom007 (#145)

I concede this point to you RF, completely. The discussion has become your dissing the honest posters with your signiture arrogence and pendatic voice. It makes one wonder if you , RF , really intended to have a dialouge at all.

Who in the heck is RF?

Diana  posted on  2006-02-15   23:51:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#193. To: Diana (#189)

I agree that it's good to have someone to spar with occasionally as I think it sharpens our skills, but I fear we have little to learn from this fellow otherwise.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-15   23:53:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#194. To: Fred Mertz (#190)

"There is no harm in doubt and scepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made." - Richard Feynman

".... I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong. I have approximate answers and possible beliefs and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I am not absolutely sure of anything and there are many things I do not know anything about, such as whether it means anything to ask 'why are we here?' I do not have to know an answer. I do not feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which it is as far as I can tell. It does not frighten me." - Richard Feynman

"I often use the analogy of a chess game: one can learn all the rules of chess, but one doesn't know how to play well. The present situation in physics is as if we know chess, but we don't know one or two rules. But in this part of the board where things are operation, those one or two rules are not operating much and we can get along pretty well without understanding those rules. That's the way it is, I would say, regarding the phenomena of life, consciousness and so forth.

God was invented to explain mystery. God is always invented to explain those things that you do not understand. Now, when you finally discover how something works, you get some laws which you're taking away from God; you don't need him anymore. But you need him for the other mysteries. So therefore you leave him to create the universe because we haven't figured that out yet; you need him for understanding those things which you don't believe the laws will explain, such as consciousness, or why you only live to a certain length of time--life and death -- stuff like that. God is always associated with those things that you do not understand. Therefore I don't think that the laws can be considered to be like God because they have been figured out." Richard Feynman

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-15   23:54:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#195. To: Feynman Lives! (#181)

What are you drinking?

I hope we all get to have a front row seat to watch your knees shake before you bend them to the King of Kings. I hope you can still laugh then, when he give you the thumbs-down.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2006-02-15   23:55:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#196. To: Diana (#192)

Who in the heck is RF?

Richard Feynman. The "Einstein" of the last 60 years.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-15   23:55:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#197. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#195)

hope we all get to have a front row seat to watch your knees shake before you bend them to the King of Kings. I hope you can still laugh then, when he give you the thumbs-down.

Wow, Horsie...

You bluster a LOT but you refute VERY LITTLE...

How can you reconcile the FOUR apparent versions of Jesus' LAST WORDS?

They all came out of YOUR bible, which YOU claim is TRUE.

Which one has the TRUE last words of Jesus, and how do YOU know?

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-15   23:57:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#198. To: Diana, sky drifter (#192)

Who in the heck is RF

Richard Feyanman (sp) one of the clearest thinkers, esp. in physics of our time..

A remarkable man, Reagan called him to investigate the Challanger Space Shuttle disaster in (1982?), and according to the lore I read at the time, he was awoaken from one of those "neutral bouncey (sp) tubs) where he was doing the governments work for us on LSD.

He was the point man on the O Ring failure that doomed the Challanger, and, was pretty much the smartest man on earth. A nice guy as well, from what I can tell.

tom007  posted on  2006-02-16   0:01:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#199. To: Feynman Lives!, Mehitable (#149)

As for my "tone"... well, that is YOUR perception of my writing, there is no TONE in text. You create the tone in how you choose to read it.

Got ya!!

I just got my dictionary to look up tone, as I remember in English classes tone was indeed a factor in literature and writing.

Okey, one of the many definitions of tone in Webster's dictionary is:

3 a manner of speaking or writing that shows a certain attitude on the part of the speaker or writer, consisting in choice of words, phrasing, etc. [the friendly tone of her letter]...

Diana  posted on  2006-02-16   0:03:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#200. To: Feynman Lives! (#175)

When one reads the Gospels, one has to understand they are not journalists giving blow by blow accounts of what happened. It is a writing in the context of the Cross, years later. It is not a purely historical recounting. We are talking retrospective history. The apostles lived with Christ for years and were often confused and did not "get" he was God. They are reflecting back on years previous in the light of the Passion after they had figured out who Christ was. There was a deliberate theology in place already so that we would be given an interpretation of events.

scooter  posted on  2006-02-16   0:04:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: Diana (#199)

I think ya pinned him to the mat, Diana. Let's see if he can execute a step over toe hold.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-16   0:05:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#202. To: tom007 (#198)

To: Diana, sky drifter

Who in the heck is RF Richard Feyanman (sp) one of the clearest thinkers, esp. in physics of our time..

A remarkable man, Reagan called him to investigate the Challanger Space Shuttle disaster in (1982?), and according to the lore I read at the time, he was awoaken from one of those "neutral bouncey (sp) tubs) where he was doing the governments work for us on LSD.

He was the point man on the O Ring failure that doomed the Challanger, and, was pretty much the smartest man on earth. A nice guy as well, from what I can tell.

Tom,

Dr Feynman was indeed one of the most brilliant minds we have ever encountered.

He deciphered the Mayan hieroglyphics himself (as a puzzle, not an assignment), solved the Challenger disaster, INVENTED quantum electrodynamics, pioneered nanotechnology, and taught himself to pick the safe that held ALL the secrets of the atomic bomb without outside help. Apple Computer picked him to be their spokesperson for their "THINK DIFFERENT" campaign.

Oh, and he loved to play the congas.

He didn't do LSD, however. That is part of his mythology.

His last words were "I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring"

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-16   0:09:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#203. To: Feynman Lives!, Mehitable, tom007 (#150)

Hey MEHITABLE!! Here we have another perfect example of someone reading a tone into something that was not intended by the writer.

I could drag out my technical writing books too?

They say remember your audience, use the correct tone accordingly...

Diana  posted on  2006-02-16   0:09:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#204. To: Diana (#192)

Who in the heck is RF?

Richard Feynman

Figures, doesn't it?

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-16   0:10:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#205. To: Diana (#199)

Got ya!!

I just got my dictionary to look up tone, as I remember in English classes tone was indeed a factor in literature and writing.

Okey, one of the many definitions of tone in Webster's dictionary is:

3 a manner of speaking or writing that shows a certain attitude on the part of the speaker or writer, consisting in choice of words, phrasing, etc. [the friendly tone of her letter]...

Yes, that is a definition for tone.

However, TONE is also a function of the INTERPRETATION of the listener or reader, if you complete the definition and don't just go ....

Eh... Diana, I love ya so!

*BIG smoochies for Diana!

:)

Wanna be my date for prom?

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-16   0:11:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#206. To: BTP Holdings (#204)

Richard Feynman

Figures, doesn't it?

Curious... what do you mean by that? Because, on first glance, I would take it as a compliment. Though I highly doubt that was your TONE when you wrote it. (playful look to DIANA!)

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-16   0:12:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#207. To: scooter (#200)

To: Feynman Lives! When one reads the Gospels, one has to understand they are not journalists giving blow by blow accounts of what happened. It is a writing in the context of the Cross, years later. It is not a purely historical recounting. We are talking retrospective history. The apostles lived with Christ for years and were often confused and did not "get" he was God. They are reflecting back on years previous in the light of the Passion after they had figured out who Christ was. There was a deliberate theology in place already so that we would be given an interpretation of events.

Scooter,

Perhaps YOU will step up and answer this question, you seem to be a reasonable person.

Is the bible TRUE? Meaning FACTUAL. Did all the events in the bible actually take place? If not, which ones did not, and how do you know for certain?

As a follow-up... how do you reconcile the plethora of inconsistencies and blatant contradictions in the bible?

Thanks for taking the time to give me a thoughtful and measured response. I look forward to reading your story when I return from my walk.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-16   0:14:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#208. To: Feynman Lives! (#197)

I'm not going back to try to decipher your inane rants against God. It's not worth any more of my time. Some people are not going to be saved. Period. You apparently choose to be one of them. I'm not going to change you. I'm not going to try. It's a waste of time. It's casting pearls before swine, as the Bible says. I know God is real. I'd like for you to believe, but if you don't, that is your choice and your loss, as you will find out some day, possibly not too long in the future.

God is not mocked. All your supposed wisdom is nothing but foolishness to Him, and to anyone with half your intelligence.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2006-02-16   0:18:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#209. To: mehitable (#184)

Besides Christianity, what other bugs do you have up your ass?

LOL!

Phaedrus  posted on  2006-02-16   0:21:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#210. To: Red Jones (#0)

What is needed is men who will use any tactic that is legal, moral and Godly to reach into the evangelical church and paint the blood of the victims on its doorways where they cannot overlook it. This is the mission of Pharisee Watch and Project Strait Gate. And how do we achieve such a feat?

God’s churches, if they are of God, should be the salt of the earth, but these millions have lost their savor, and therefore, are:

"fit only to be trodden under the feet of men."

But they can change…most of We Hold These Truth's advisors did. Each Christian Zionist at some point lost his senses in the shouting crowd; they will regain their senses slowly, one by one, church by church…with our/your help. This is our agenda.

Start by watching our one hour presentation, with your friends, right on your computer, or you may buy it for your TV: Our best tool to help you teach, view it free: Why Christian-Zionist cannot work for peace, Interactive fully guided free audio/video.

I can't watch this on my old computer. Have you watched it? Anyone?

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2006-02-16   0:36:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#211. To: Feynman Lives!, Red Jones (#188)

Most everyone knows that I have a hard time believing that Jesus is the son of God. I have a hard time believing that God would be in human form, and God should know everything past, present and future, but Jesus didn't seem to.

There have been times where I have struggled to believe, but I just can't. Maybe God does not want me, who knows.

Red I hope you are right about people who have a hard time not believing but don't go to hell because they basically try to live their lives in a moral way and care about all people and their well-being. I know there are many Christians who insist that if you don't believe in Jesus, being good will only get you to hell, that you must believe in order to go to Heaven, that good works get you nowhere. Well I will still do what my conscience tells me to do, even if I can't believe in Jesus, even if I go to hell, I will continue to do my best to help those around me to have an easier life as I believe life on earth is a hell of sorts for everyone.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-16   0:46:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#212. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#191)

. I have met so many who have the light of God in their eyes, and are unassuming, peaceful, and loving. I feel God takes all these things into consideration, and I think they may be judged differently based on the knowledge they were given. And as I said, I don't believe all who call themselves Christian are going to get into heaven.

That's what I believe, it's not the religion that matters but the heart and actions of each individual.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-16   0:50:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#213. To: Feynman Lives! (#194)

"I often use the analogy of a chess game: one can learn all the rules of chess, but one doesn't know how to play well. The present situation in physics is as if we know chess, but we don't know one or two rules. But in this part of the board where things are operation, those one or two rules are not operating much and we can get along pretty well without understanding those rules. That's the way it is, I would say, regarding the phenomena of life, consciousness and so forth.

Interesting post. The real Feynman, is he a physicist?

They are making some very interesting discoveries concerning subatomic particles that do not fit in with what we have thought all along about the physical world.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-16   1:00:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: tom007 (#198)

was pretty much the smartest man on earth. A nice guy as well, from what I can tell.

Did he die? I think I'll look him up..sounds interesting but I'm surprised I haven't heard of him as I'm at least familiar with a lot of names, mostly chemists though.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-16   1:04:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#215. To: All (#214)

Well goodnight everybody it's 9 here which means it's later everywhere else.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-16   1:05:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#216. To: Diana (#211)

Most everyone knows that I have a hard time believing that Jesus is the son of God. I have a hard time believing that God would be in human form, and God should know everything past, present and future, but Jesus didn't seem to.

There have been times where I have struggled to believe, but I just can't. Maybe God does not want me, who knows

Diana, I didn't know that about you. That hit me in the stomach.

I can honestly say from what I've seen from you, God DOES want you!

Why do you say Jesus didn't seem to know everything?

Jhn 7:45 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him?

Jhn 7:46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man.

http://www.bluelett erbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn007.html#46

http://www.blueletterb ible.org/tsk_b/Jhn/7/46.html

You are one I would spend the time with to help you come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ. I want to be SURE you are with us when He returns.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2006-02-16   1:23:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#217. To: Diana, Red Jones, christine (#215)

Well goodnight everybody it's 9 here which means it's later everywhere else.

Me too. It's past midnight.

Red Jones, Carlson sounds worn out. I think he needs a little help. Many hands make light work. We HAVE to wake up the rest of the church.

Btainstorm, everyone.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2006-02-16   1:30:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#218. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt, Feynman Lives! (#208)

It's casting pearls before swine, as the Bible says.

That's it, wipe the dust from your feet and move on. ;0)

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-16   1:30:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#219. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#208)

I'm not going back to try to decipher your inane rants against God.

Pretty simple question, Horsie...

How can you reconcile the FOUR apparent versions of Jesus' LAST WORDS?

They all came out of YOUR bible, which YOU claim is TRUE.

Which one has the TRUE last words of Jesus, and how do YOU know?

For god to be mocked, god would have to exist first, so I agree with your premise that god is not mocked.

You can't answer a SIMPLE question about a HUGE inconsistency in the bible.

I see that you don't cast pearls before swine, you keep them safely stored in your jar of vinegar.

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-16   2:06:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#220. To: Diana (#213)

Interesting post. The real Feynman, is he a physicist?

Diana,

Not only was he a physicist, he was one of the most gifted physicist of all time.

He won the Nobel Prize for the discovery of the field of Quantum Electrodynamics.

He is a great author as well and gave fantastic lectures. He writes many books of complex science so that the "common man" can understand them. Check out "Six Easy Pieces" if you have a chance.

Others of my favorite quotes of his:

"I was born not knowing and have only had a little time to change that here and there."

"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong"

and

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts. If you thought that science was certain - well, that is just an error on your part."

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-16   2:14:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#221. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#216)

Why do you say Jesus didn't seem to know everything?

Jhn 7:45 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him?

Jhn 7:46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man.

REALLY? Horsie... here are PRIME examples of JESUS NOT KNOWING EVERYTHING.

When second coming? Hmm... I know, let's ask JESUS!

MATT 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
MARK 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
LUKE 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Here we find more of his blunder on the topic of the END OF THE WORLD:
MATT 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
MARK 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
LUKE 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

In MATT 16:27-28, Jesus claims he will return before some of his hearers taste death. Verse 27 states that he will come "in the glory of the Father with his angels" and that "he shall reward every man according to his works."

Now, at least they all SEEM to agree on what he said, which is a relief! However, his generation, the NEXT generation, the generation after that, and MANY more, have tasted death. Even though Jesus seemed to KNOW the end was RIGHT around the corner, all those people have come and gone and it sure seems like ALL ain't been fulfilled yet. OOOPSIES!

STRIKE ONE!

Hey Jesus! Are you equal to or lesser than god?

JOHN 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOHN 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

And this is out of the same book by the same author!

STRIKE TWO!!

Do I judge, do I not judge? I just can't remember!

God and I are not one, and god does not judge.
JOHN 5:22 "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son."

I sure don't judge... but, if I diiiiid....
JOHN 8:16 "I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true."

Hang on, I really didn't come here to judge at all, now I remember!
JOHN 12:47 "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."

Oh, wait, I am DEFINITELY here to judge you all!
JOHN 10:39 "For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind."

AGAIN, out of the SAME BOOK, by the SAME AUTHOR!

STRIKE THREEEEEEE, YER OUTTA HERE!

Diana, according to the BIBLE, Jesus SURELY did not know much about anything, he barely knew why he was here in the first place!

"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams

Feynman Lives!  posted on  2006-02-16   2:54:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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