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Title: Can Christ Followers Save The World From Christians
Source:
We Hold These Truths
URL Source: http://www.whtt.org/index.php?news=2&id=709
Published: Feb 6, 2006
Author: Charles E. Carlson
Post Date: 2006-02-15 00:09:52 by Red Jones
Keywords: Christians, Followers, Christ
Views: 5201
Comments: 491
Can Christ Followers save the world from Christians Charles E. Carlson Feb 06, 2006 Why all the bad news? The news stories in the world press, from South Africa to Norway, are incredibly negative about the USA. It was not always that way. Once, not long ago, most press was good to the USA. Our generations of military and tourists have been treated like liberators in Germany and Japan, countries we helped to destroy and then rebuilt. But no more, “America” is mud. This letter is not for everyone. Some already recognize the answer, but many still deny that the USA has become both the awful predator, and the world’s engine of monetary dilution. Less anyone thinks this writer is causing America’s image problem we add these words from a pretty good President, Theodore Roosevelt, who was also a decorated military officer: "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President or any other public official, save to the extent in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country.” "In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth - whether about the president or anyone else - save in the rare case where this would make known to the enemy information of military value which would otherwise be unknown to him." -Theodore Roosevelt Jesus gave us parables to help us understand his lessons. We follow his example with a parable about a man and the pet he loves and think he controls, which we liken to our government. This man discovers, to his horror and dismay, that his family dog has become a nighttime marauder, a predator, slipping out of the yard and pillaging the community, killing other pets and threatening pedestrians, and then jumping back into the backyard to sleep it off. What should the man do: 1) Feed the dog more and hope he will stay home? 2) Build a higher fence, cement-in the yard and put double locks on every access? (3) Ignore the problem? (4) Put the dog to sleep before someone is hurt? The pet owner could try the second choice (2), if he has the patience and money, but chances are he will not sleep well at night. It is his responsibility to stop the crimes, even if it means he has to destroy his own dog. It is not up to the police to solve the crime, nor is it up to the neighbors to correct it. In truth, he should do it himself because he is responsible, not the taxpayers who pay for the animal shelter. Similarly, it is up to the most responsible Americans to correct criminal acts against its world neighbors, and if we do not then the blood of the USA’s every crime is on our hands. It is not good enough to say, "Oh, this is a great place to live...our standard of living is the envy of the world...even if we do make some mistakes." It is not our place to recite all the wrongs of our government, we would never finish, nor do we defend any other government for it murderous faults. All are corrupt to some degree. We do defend the right to life of our neighbors, as described in our own Declaration of Independence. Life itself is a gift from God...this is not (for followers of Christ) a subjective, take it or leave it observation, it is an absolute. A friend and supporter recently called to ask me if I might tone down what he considered my obvious favoritism toward the Palestinian people, whom we have come to call the Philistines. He told me I sound so biased that someone who did not know me might think "they are paying me." In fact, it is people like my caller who is supporting We Hold These Truths, so we listen. My reply was: Thanks, but I cannot help what I say or the passion that shows through. I have been to the land of the Philistines and seen. Now I am their champion as long as they are suppressed by our own government. Our government is the marauding dog. I told my friend I would try to do a better job of explaining my bias, but I must not stop defending the innocent blood that is being shed. This is not to say the Philistines, or their current leaders, Hamas, are perfect, nor to deny they have their criminal element, which they do have. I told a beleaguered Univerisity class the same thing when I stood among them in Gaza City, but it is our government. not theirs, that is the problem. I have but one point to make. God does not “Will” that this great land become the predator of the world. He expects us to be the good stewards of what we are given. We can stop the marauding animal in our back yards if we will allow God to help us. And, if God does not help us, we need not worry about it, for it should now be obvious to most that we cannot overcome the mass of evil power loosed on the world by our own strength alone. Our “predator” inside our gates has become a "King Kong behemoth. We can succeed only if we do it God’s way, else we will fail. Abraham Lincoln may have later broken his own rules, but he was dead right when he stated in 1848: “Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and form a new one that suits them better.” It seem logical thta God's way is to correct His followers As we have said over and over again and say now, the self-styled Christian Zionist churches, with some 70 million under their influence, are the logical answer. We call them Scofieldized churches, others call them Dispensational, or lately Christian Zionists, whatever name you call them, they are the enablers of the monster on the loose in the world. It is Scofieldized churches that feed it; it is they who left the gate ajar at night, and they taught the marauder to vault the highest fence. They hatched a logic and theology that enables ethnic cleansing in the Mideast. Only the Scofieldized church, among all the major religions in the world, believes the acts of the nighttime marauder are Godly, and therefore, encourages it. In America the members of the Scofieldized churchs are the salt of the earth, the good neighbors we all want, the famliy poeple who care, but they are horrible and criminaly misled and they must be salvaged from God professors to Jesus Christ's followers. Scofildized Christian Zionists simply refuse to see the blood and torn bodies of victims. One of the Ten Commandments that God is said to have given to Moses is: "You shall not [no, never] take the name of the Lord your God in vain." This is exactly what the Scofieldized churches do today by supporting in God’s name that which God abhors, the spilling of innocent blood. Each one allows the abuses that Jesus denied and decried. He said to the Pharisees, "you will not enter into heaven, and you block the way of anyone who would enter." Jesus could have been speaking to the pastors today. What is needed is men who will use any tactic that is legal, moral and Godly to reach into the evangelical church and paint the blood of the victims on its doorways where they cannot overlook it. This is the mission of Pharisee Watch and Project Strait Gate. And how do we achieve such a feat? God’s churches, if they are of God, should be the salt of the earth, but these millions have lost their savor, and therefore, are: "fit only to be trodden under the feet of men." But they can change…most of We Hold These Truth's advisors did. Each Christian Zionist at some point lost his senses in the shouting crowd; they will regain their senses slowly, one by one, church by church…with our/your help. This is our agenda. Start by watching our one hour presentation, with your friends, right on your computer, or you may buy it for your TV: Our best tool to help you teach, view it free: Why Christian-Zionist cannot work for peace, Interactive fully guided free audio/video.
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#305. To: Zipporah (#304)
Of course it wasn't...
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I told you my thoughts on the topic... what are yours?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Now on to the facts.. where do our laws come from?
Zip, you didn't read my post. I just explianed to you where our laws came from. You were going to tell me YOUR version.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman My version?? The structure of our government as well as our laws were founded in biblical law.. btw I missed your post if you in fact did give your version.
I want to put a SOHC 427 into a 71 pinto, make it mid-engined. Will I need the cloth or plastic headliner to make the package work right?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
Chum means shark bait in all the movies I watch. After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
Zip, sorry to disappoint, but no, they were not. While there is significant influence of biblical law in the current law, it was NOT the foundation. This is a COMMON misconception. There is a tendency on the part of many theists to assume that the burden of proof is on the nontheist when it comes to the issue of law and morality. Thus, the individual who operates without a theological base is asked to justify his so doing — the assumption of the theist being that no morality is possible in the absence of some form of "higher" law. However, I am most curious to sit back and try to see you make your case.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman “It seems like Flynt's trying to stick it to Congress,” Weiss said. “I don't know what I'd call it. Childish, perhaps.” Expecting Congress to represent Americans is un-American? How did we get here?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
LOL Dakmar, "Chum" means pal if you lived in England for any amount of time. I was not referring to her as my old pile of fishblood and bits... LOL
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman How did we get here? Heck if I know.. it's the FR effect..
HEY I'm offended.. prove that isnt what you meant...
For those Hardy enough to rest on their Laurels? Stan, is that you?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
Who or what is an FR?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
ROFL! Good one!
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Good.. good.. you've gone thru deprogramming and came out with flying colors..
I don't know either, Dakmar. They refer to a LOT of acronyms around here that make no sense to me. They need a key at the top of the page.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I feel, after much careful thought and consideration, that the proper response to your comment is.... PPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTT!
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman There have been some posters who do not like this forum because there is not enough arguing; they enjoy arguing so they end up somewhere like LP where there are all sorts of opinions and then fighting often results.
Horsehockey! Have you ever heard of Lucianne Goldberg?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
Some of those inconsistencies bother me too, I read your explanation but I still don't get it. If Jesus is the same as his father, how can the father be greater?
I'm going to rent a 4 X 4 and drive over my state governor if the us attacks Iran. What do you think, dark blue?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
Uh... I am gonna go with "No" on that one. But MAD props for the "horsehockey" line!
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman That's why I like meher baba, he just says be nice to one another.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
Well, Diana, it just goes to show that the bible is flawed.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Poor rookie, why dont you google lucianne + forum, get back to me later.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
I'll do it... but why am I so scared?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Looks like you've got a fan club! LOL http://postliberty.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=2303&Disp=0
Diana, is it true you are a biblical literalist?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
Lax social reserves?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
I think humankind is in a constant state of evolving, or devolving as in the case of the Ik people of Uganda, though I'm not sure what happened to them to make them as they are today. But I believe most societies agree that "good" is life, peace, harmony and good health, and anything that leads to that is good. "Bad" leads to disease, destruction and death, so actions that lead to suffering are bad. All societies have their own take on cultural issues, for instance they eat dogs in parts of Asia and that concept would horrify many of us, yet in India they must be horrified at the idea of us eating cows. But there is a universal code of sorts when it comes to good and bad, which in all human beings can lead to prosperous life or suffering and death. This can occur on an individual basis or as a whole in a society. Societies are considered organisms and they can become sick too from too much bad behavior.
LOL... ok, I checked it out... not as scary as I feared...
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Not true. There is no universal code when it comes to suffering, death, good and bad. Here is a wonderful example for you to work with: The dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan. Was this ONE action a UNIVERSALLY GOOD or UNIVERSALLY BAD action?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Do you know what happened to the Ik people of Uganda?
Our collective conscience which tells us it's wrong to go around killing and raping, looting and such as it leads to much misery and is disruptive to a community.
Diana, I can see that you have a good feeling on what YOUR moral strictures are, but your beliefs are not the beliefs of everyone else. Again, I ask you to answer this question: The dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan. Was this ONE action a UNIVERSALLY GOOD or UNIVERSALLY BAD action?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman The basis is from the Mosaic code.
Zip, Can you answer my question about the dropping of the atomic bomb?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman relenquish thee demon of the dumbed downer shits, in the name of dale!
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestNo it wasnt a factual statement in any way shape or form.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#306. To: Zipporah (#299)
Where do you think our laws came from?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#307. To: Feynman Lives! (#306)
I told you my thoughts on the topic... what are yours?
#308. To: Zipporah (#307)
Now on to the facts.. where do our laws come from?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#309. To: Feynman Lives! (#308)
#310. To: Rabbi Feynman Lives! (#306)
I told you my thoughts on the topic... what are yours?
#311. To: Feynman Lives!, Zipporah, christine, Jethro Tull (#280)
Zip's gender was of no concern to me, and no I did not know she was female. I referred to Zip as 'old chum' as a friendly gesture.
#312. To: Dakmar (#311)
Chum means shark bait in all the movies I watch.
#313. To: Zipporah (#309)
The structure of our government as well as our laws were founded in biblical law
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#314. To: Zipporah (#312)
Daniel Weiss, a senior analyst for media and sexuality for the conservative religious group Focus on the Family, says that members of Congress who don't want the mailings should work with the Postal Service to make them stop. And if that doesn't work, they should ask the Justice Department to investigate whether the magazine is obscene and have it blocked.
#315. To: Dakmar (#311)
Chum means shark bait in all the movies I watch.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#316. To: Dakmar (#314)
Expecting Congress to represent Americans is un-American?
#317. To: Feynman Lives! (#315)
I was not referring to her as my old pile of fishblood and bits... LOL
#318. To: Feynman Lives! (#315)
"Chum" means pal if you lived in England for any amount of time.
#319. To: Zipporah (#316)
Heck if I know.. it's the FR effect..
#320. To: Dakmar (#318)
For those Hardy enough to rest on their Laurels? Stan, is that you?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#321. To: Dakmar (#319)
Who or what is an FR?
#322. To: Dakmar (#319)
Who or what is an FR?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#323. To: Zipporah (#317)
HEY I'm offended.. prove that isnt what you meant...
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#324. To: Zipporah, Feynman Lives! (#289)
People dont have to stay there.. they enjoy the banter etc.. just as some enjoy arguing ..just on a different level.
#325. To: Feynman Lives! (#322)
I don't know either, Dakmar. They refer to a LOT of acronyms around here that make no sense to me.
#326. To: scooter (#296)
You have another question about the Trinity. You cited Christ's words, "I and that Father are one," and then go to "The Father is greater than I".
#327. To: Diana (#324)
#328. To: Dakmar (#325)
Horsehockey! Have you ever heard of Lucianne Goldberg?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#329. To: Diana (#326)
Some of those inconsistencies bother me too,
#330. To: Diana (#326)
Some of those inconsistencies bother me too, I read your explanation but I still don't get it. If Jesus is the same as his father, how can the father be greater?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#331. To: Feynman Lives! (#328)
#332. To: Dakmar (#331)
Poor rookie, why dont you google lucianne + forum, get back to me later.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#333. To: Feynman Lives! (#330)
#334. To: Feynman Lives!, Diana (#330)
#335. To: Feynman Lives! (#332)
I'll do it... but why am I so scared?
#336. To: Feynman Lives!, Zipporah (#297)
There are no universally good or bad things, just perceptions of a moment in time. Look at the bible, at one point it was accepted that if your kid talked back to you, you could KILL them for doing so, and if you touched the skin of a dead pig, you were also put to death. Luckily, perceptions can change.
#337. To: Dakmar (#335)
Lax social reserves?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#338. To: Diana (#336)
But there is a universal code of sorts when it comes to good and bad, which in all human beings can lead to prosperous life or suffering and death.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#339. To: Feynman Lives! (#302)
There are those that go back even further still. The court system of China originated from the Xia Dynasty (2100-1600 B.C.). With the formation of the Xia kingdom, China evolved from a society of prehistoric tribe into a feudal system of social classes. From approximately the 2100 B.C., the ancient law system began to take its form and began the long journey of evolution. Through more than a thousand years from Xia, Shang, Xi Zhou and Chun Qiu, the law of China evolved from a system which based heavily on common practices to a well defined court system. The ancient laws of common practices include the laws of fate, accusation and testimony.
#340. To: Zipporah, Feynman Lives! (#307)
Now on to the facts.. where do our laws come from?
#341. To: Diana (#340)
Our collective conscience which tells us it's wrong to go around killing and raping, looting and such as it leads to much misery and is disruptive to a community.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#342. To: Diana (#340)
Our collective conscience which tells us it's wrong to go around killing and raping, looting and such as it leads to much misery and is disruptive to a community.
#343. To: Zipporah (#342)
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#344. To: Feynman Lives! (#341)
The dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan. Was this ONE action a UNIVERSALLY GOOD or UNIVERSALLY BAD action?
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