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Title: Can Christ Followers Save The World From Christians
Source:
We Hold These Truths
URL Source: http://www.whtt.org/index.php?news=2&id=709
Published: Feb 6, 2006
Author: Charles E. Carlson
Post Date: 2006-02-15 00:09:52 by Red Jones
Keywords: Christians, Followers, Christ
Views: 5241
Comments: 491
Can Christ Followers save the world from Christians Charles E. Carlson Feb 06, 2006 Why all the bad news? The news stories in the world press, from South Africa to Norway, are incredibly negative about the USA. It was not always that way. Once, not long ago, most press was good to the USA. Our generations of military and tourists have been treated like liberators in Germany and Japan, countries we helped to destroy and then rebuilt. But no more, “America” is mud. This letter is not for everyone. Some already recognize the answer, but many still deny that the USA has become both the awful predator, and the world’s engine of monetary dilution. Less anyone thinks this writer is causing America’s image problem we add these words from a pretty good President, Theodore Roosevelt, who was also a decorated military officer: "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President or any other public official, save to the extent in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country.” "In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth - whether about the president or anyone else - save in the rare case where this would make known to the enemy information of military value which would otherwise be unknown to him." -Theodore Roosevelt Jesus gave us parables to help us understand his lessons. We follow his example with a parable about a man and the pet he loves and think he controls, which we liken to our government. This man discovers, to his horror and dismay, that his family dog has become a nighttime marauder, a predator, slipping out of the yard and pillaging the community, killing other pets and threatening pedestrians, and then jumping back into the backyard to sleep it off. What should the man do: 1) Feed the dog more and hope he will stay home? 2) Build a higher fence, cement-in the yard and put double locks on every access? (3) Ignore the problem? (4) Put the dog to sleep before someone is hurt? The pet owner could try the second choice (2), if he has the patience and money, but chances are he will not sleep well at night. It is his responsibility to stop the crimes, even if it means he has to destroy his own dog. It is not up to the police to solve the crime, nor is it up to the neighbors to correct it. In truth, he should do it himself because he is responsible, not the taxpayers who pay for the animal shelter. Similarly, it is up to the most responsible Americans to correct criminal acts against its world neighbors, and if we do not then the blood of the USA’s every crime is on our hands. It is not good enough to say, "Oh, this is a great place to live...our standard of living is the envy of the world...even if we do make some mistakes." It is not our place to recite all the wrongs of our government, we would never finish, nor do we defend any other government for it murderous faults. All are corrupt to some degree. We do defend the right to life of our neighbors, as described in our own Declaration of Independence. Life itself is a gift from God...this is not (for followers of Christ) a subjective, take it or leave it observation, it is an absolute. A friend and supporter recently called to ask me if I might tone down what he considered my obvious favoritism toward the Palestinian people, whom we have come to call the Philistines. He told me I sound so biased that someone who did not know me might think "they are paying me." In fact, it is people like my caller who is supporting We Hold These Truths, so we listen. My reply was: Thanks, but I cannot help what I say or the passion that shows through. I have been to the land of the Philistines and seen. Now I am their champion as long as they are suppressed by our own government. Our government is the marauding dog. I told my friend I would try to do a better job of explaining my bias, but I must not stop defending the innocent blood that is being shed. This is not to say the Philistines, or their current leaders, Hamas, are perfect, nor to deny they have their criminal element, which they do have. I told a beleaguered Univerisity class the same thing when I stood among them in Gaza City, but it is our government. not theirs, that is the problem. I have but one point to make. God does not “Will” that this great land become the predator of the world. He expects us to be the good stewards of what we are given. We can stop the marauding animal in our back yards if we will allow God to help us. And, if God does not help us, we need not worry about it, for it should now be obvious to most that we cannot overcome the mass of evil power loosed on the world by our own strength alone. Our “predator” inside our gates has become a "King Kong behemoth. We can succeed only if we do it God’s way, else we will fail. Abraham Lincoln may have later broken his own rules, but he was dead right when he stated in 1848: “Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and form a new one that suits them better.” It seem logical thta God's way is to correct His followers As we have said over and over again and say now, the self-styled Christian Zionist churches, with some 70 million under their influence, are the logical answer. We call them Scofieldized churches, others call them Dispensational, or lately Christian Zionists, whatever name you call them, they are the enablers of the monster on the loose in the world. It is Scofieldized churches that feed it; it is they who left the gate ajar at night, and they taught the marauder to vault the highest fence. They hatched a logic and theology that enables ethnic cleansing in the Mideast. Only the Scofieldized church, among all the major religions in the world, believes the acts of the nighttime marauder are Godly, and therefore, encourages it. In America the members of the Scofieldized churchs are the salt of the earth, the good neighbors we all want, the famliy poeple who care, but they are horrible and criminaly misled and they must be salvaged from God professors to Jesus Christ's followers. Scofildized Christian Zionists simply refuse to see the blood and torn bodies of victims. One of the Ten Commandments that God is said to have given to Moses is: "You shall not [no, never] take the name of the Lord your God in vain." This is exactly what the Scofieldized churches do today by supporting in God’s name that which God abhors, the spilling of innocent blood. Each one allows the abuses that Jesus denied and decried. He said to the Pharisees, "you will not enter into heaven, and you block the way of anyone who would enter." Jesus could have been speaking to the pastors today. What is needed is men who will use any tactic that is legal, moral and Godly to reach into the evangelical church and paint the blood of the victims on its doorways where they cannot overlook it. This is the mission of Pharisee Watch and Project Strait Gate. And how do we achieve such a feat? God’s churches, if they are of God, should be the salt of the earth, but these millions have lost their savor, and therefore, are: "fit only to be trodden under the feet of men." But they can change…most of We Hold These Truth's advisors did. Each Christian Zionist at some point lost his senses in the shouting crowd; they will regain their senses slowly, one by one, church by church…with our/your help. This is our agenda. Start by watching our one hour presentation, with your friends, right on your computer, or you may buy it for your TV: Our best tool to help you teach, view it free: Why Christian-Zionist cannot work for peace, Interactive fully guided free audio/video.
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#31. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#29)
APPARENTLY Jesus says a lot of things... most of them don't make sense... So...who is the father of Joseph? MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Can you read? If it were 100 per cent, WHY WOULD JESUS ADMONISH THE ONES WHO WOULD LATER CHANGE IT? It is not 100 per cent the way He gave it. The Jews changed it where it suited them, King James' translators changed it to suit their conspiracy against God [Psalm 2]. Read my lips: IT IS SUFFICIENT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE EYES TO SEE.
Ok... Ok... Ok... I will be nice... Let's get back to the basics... the ORIGINS of life according to the bible... The order of creation Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition: Day 1: Sky, Earth, light Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!) Day 3: Plants (VERY ODD THAT GOD CREATES THE PLANTS BEFORE CREATING THE SUN... they could NOT survive) Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids) Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.) Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time) Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did) Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good." The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes: Earth and heavens (misty) Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth) Plants Animals Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib) ---- Ya having fun yet?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman WOW... Something IN YOUR OWN WORDS... I am honored. SO... if the Bible is NOT 100% true... WHICH PORTIONS OF THE BIBLE ARE 100% TRUE AND HOW DO YOU KNOW? AND if you KNOW that the bible is a work of fiction, WHY do you PRETEND THAT IT IS TRUE?
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one. JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. WHOOPS... Jesus IS god... WAIT... no he isn't... LOL Your hatred of God, like so many, blinds you. He appeared unto His own, over and over and over again, and they rejected Him. Jesus came to die to take the sins of the whole world upon His shoulders, so that those WHO BELIEVED would have everlasting life. He came as the Son of God, to bring the world back to Himself the Father. Read Isaiah 65. There are two Israels there. "My people" refers to Christians, which includes the FAITHFUL of the Old Testament. You aren't a Christian, obviously, so you aren't one of His people. That's why you do not understand, I guess. Matthew 1= genealogy of Joseph. Luke 3 = genealogy of Mary.
No more. You are lost. So be it. God's Word does not come back to Him void. Your loss is another's gain. My hands are clean....I shake the dust off my feet.
Culturally, traditionally the US has always been Christian. However recently Christianity is being bashed bigtime by the media and others. I don't have a beef in this argument as I don't think I'd really count as a Christian, but historically this has been a Christian country for instance with people having family bibles, saying their prayers, Christian weddings and funerals, and going to church on Sundays.
There are a several things that your Masonic article missed. It was obvioulsy not written by a Mason. First, it's easy to tell which Presidents were Masons as they make Masonic signs in their Presidential portraits. Quite a few were Masons. More than most people realize. Especially at the dawn of the Republic. Secondly, the Washington monument is a Masonic Ethiopian Pyrimid on a high pedestal. Your article missed this. Third, I've been associated with the organization on and off for many years. I've never met a single devil worshiper in my entire time there. Reading the history of the organization, it appears to be a vehicle for preserving the Enligtenment. There was a fear in the 17th - 19th centuries that a heavy handed king or pope could quash the Enlightenment. The secret society could preserve the ideas and spirit through such rough times. Most of the emphasis in the writings is on science and logic, not on theology - and no, failure to emphasize the Bible 24/7 does not automatically mean that you worship Satan. I can see how an organization filled with intelligent people, e.g., Franklin, Voltaire, Washington, etc., and dedicated to free thought would be scary to the average fundementalist Christian or Moslem. I think this is the root of the demonization you see from these groups.
I've wondered about something for quite a while. Do virtuous Mormons go to hell?
Luke 3 = genealogy of Mary. Yet they both talk about the FATHER OF JOSEPH, and he SOMEHOW is TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE? Yes, it is better that you shake the dust off yur feel and run the hell away... there is FAR too much LOGIC around here for your spiritual safety. And you didn't bother to address that Jesus says he IS god and that he ISN'T god... LOL... you best keep those feet of yours dust-free and leave this conversation alone...
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman That is a VERY different thing from saying that the U.S. was BASED upon christianity or that WESTERN CIVILIZATION was based upon christianity. VERY different.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman You mean the proof that some of the founding fathers were not Christian? That is not proof that the US has not traditionally been a Christian country. It certainly has not been a traditionally Hindu country. You really can't re-write history because you don't like parts of it, however many attempt to do just that. You don't have to like Christianity, but that doesn't mean this was never a Christian country.
And just WHAT were Jesus' last words? OOOH, I know... let us simply look to the bible and we can now the TRUE WORD OF THE LORD GIVEN TO US FROM GOD! LOL Lesseeeeeee... Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost." Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." Oh, what a wonderful book the bible is!
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman That is not proof that the US has not traditionally been a Christian country. It certainly has not been a traditionally Hindu country. You really can't re-write history because you don't like parts of it, however many attempt to do just that. You don't have to like Christianity, but that doesn't mean this was never a Christian country. GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I don't think so, because throughout western civilization, when Christianity took hold in Europe it became a way of life for the majority of people except for Jews who kept their religion, and the agnostics who have a hard time believing in things where there is no proof. When I was in school some years ago, I got suspended for a week because I said, "I swear to God!" I was highly repremanded and screamed at for taking the Lord's name in vain and was told I had to take a week off for blasphising Jesus. I didn't appreciate that much, and it was a public school. People can use all kinds of fancy words to confuse and misdirect and such, but it you take an honest look back at American history you will see Christianity played a large part in the lives of the majority population. People lived by Christian principles, and many of them abused Christianity, no doubt about that.
You might want to consider, before you make a bigger fool of yourself, Oh come on now. You're too bright to resort to name-calling. I think you can do better than that.
Western Civilization was already massively influenced by the culture of ancient greece long before before the cult of christianity started to grow.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman I thought the argument was over whether the US has traditionally been a Christian country, not Ancient Greece. I'm sure you know that Catholic Church ruled with an iron fist throughout Europe for a few hundred years.
I can. But based upon his performance, why bother? He has nothing to offer but sophistry.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman See, this is where you need to go back and read what was said BEFORE jumping in when you don't know what is going on, Diana. He said "It kinda disgusts me when Christianity, which just happens to be the foundation of our way of life, of Western Science and Civiliation, is ridiculed and attacked." It is not about whether or not there are traditional values existent in socitety, it is about the FOUNDATION of our way of life, western science and civilization. Sorry, but christianity just ain't the right answer... sure it has influence now, but it was not the FOUNDATION of it all... not by a longshot.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman That is a very difficult question for anyone to answer, as there are so many versions of the bible. People will say this bible or that bible is evil, only read this one version, etc. If you read any other version it's not the word of God, then there is the Catholic bible which is altogether different. Also that Scofield bible which came out little over a hundred years ago is another version. It can get very confusing with all the different translations, parts added and parts taken away, though from what I can tell the general concensus is that the KJ version is the best, though he changed it around somewhat too.
I agree with that, this was suppose to be a country of religious freedom unlike Europe in times past. But culturally the US did morph into a Christian nation.
LOL No, that is a RIDICULOUSLY EASY question to answer. The bible is a work of FICTION that draws on a few loose facts. Much like a spy novel written by Tom Clancy, they use truths of the day to make the story readable. Except that Tom knows how to write. The bible is poorly written. VERY poorly written. It is so full of holes, lies and blatant contradictions, that if it were not considered a RELIGIOUS book, it would have no literary value whatsoever. STILL there are people today, people on this very FORUM I would wager, who feel that the bible is TRUE. LOL Now that is just sad...
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Not true. Yes, there is an undeniable christian thread to our societal structure, but that is a FAR cry from saying we are a CHRISTIAN nation. Furthermore, this is NOT what Phaedrus was talking about, you are OFF topic with your point (which is also loosely made).
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman So what was?
Tom, IF you had read the thread, you would have seen where this question was ALREADY answered. If you read the entire thread and STILL can't get your answer, THEN come back to me.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman But foundations change, you can have a country that lays down rules as it's foundation, but as times go by things always tend to change. I believe the foundation was for the US to be a free country with separation of church and state and freedom of religion along with rights for citizens. Those foundations were laid down a long time ago. However cultures do tend to change with time, look at us now, our values are very different than they were even 100 years ago. Foundations are just that, a platform of idealistic ideas which tend to disintigrate/morph over time. I do think Christianity is on the wane, replaced by pornography and such.
Diana, With all due respect, I need to explain to you what the word FOUNDATION means in this context. foundation 1: the basis on which something is grounded; "there is little foundation for his objections" So, you see, the FOUNDATION of a country can NOT change. The direction of that country can, but not the FOUNDATION.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Why does it have to be? I wasn't responding to Phaedrus, I was responding to you. I disagree that my point was loosely made, any civilization starts off with a foundation of ideas. As time goes by things change a lot. Look at Ancient Rome or any other civilization that lasted for any extended period of time. However I maintain that the US traditionally and culturally has been a majority Christian country, I am saying majority now because obviously not 100% of Americans have been or are now Christians.
OK I am good with that, as a base. I just do not get why you seem to need to belittle any one who does not totally agree with you. It's does not make your arguments palatable, and does nothing but provoke those whom you might have had a dialogue with. And then to claim you are polite, well, you are not, and don't even think of asking me to waste my time comming up with examples, as you can do it for yourself. Unless you cannot see it yourself. Which is what I am beginning to believe.
THE MASONIC NEW WORLD ORDER http://watch.pair.com/mason.html America, on the other hand is another story, and I've explained it here more than once. Ezekiel 34:13; Micah 4; Psalm 2, etc. etc. The whole Bible is fulfilled in Jesus Christ and being fulfilled in America. great distinction! well done.
Diana, You were responding to me OFF the topic of the conversation I was having with Phaedrus. You took the conversation out of context and tried to spin it in a direction that was not being discussed. You are free to maintain whatever you wish, but you are incorrect about this nation. Next time, try to stay WITH the conversation, or start a NEW thread for your own kooky ideas.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman So what was? Tom, IF you had read the thread, you would have seen where this question was ALREADY answered. If you read the entire thread and STILL can't get your answer, THEN come back to me. Okey I'll bite, are you referring to the remarks of the founding fathers?
But Christine, With all due respect, he just got done ADMITTING that the bible is NOT a work of fact, so what does it matter what is said in the book? Might as well quote from Shel Silverstein...
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman Hemp was one of the FOUNDATIONS of the early US economy. How times have changed...
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
Would you kindly explain to me how I spinned it and which direction I spun it towards?
What are you, crazy???? All around me here in Colorado Springs are Zorastianst's Temples, and Celtic religions. And then there's the cannibals.
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
Again, if you READ the the thread, that is asked and answered. You get no points for being lazy.
"There are 10 the 11th power stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." ----Richard Feynman thank-you for those bible verses in #17. I enjoyed reading them. fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestHe declared Himself in three persons, RIGHT THERE: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#32. To: Feynman Lives! (#28)
#33. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#29)
Jesus is God
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#34. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#32)
Can you read? If it were 100 per cent, WHY WOULD JESUS ADMONISH THE ONES WHO WOULD LATER CHANGE IT? It is not 100 per cent the way He gave it. The Jews changed it where it suited them, King James' translators changed it to suit their conspiracy against God [Psalm 2]. Read my lips: IT IS SUFFICIENT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE EYES TO SEE.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#35. To: Feynman Lives! (#31)
FINE... I can play this game as well...
#36. To: Feynman Lives! (#34)
#37. To: Feynman Lives! (#6)
#38. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#16)
#39. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#36)
#40. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#35)
Matthew 1= genealogy of Joseph.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#41. To: Diana (#37)
Culturally, traditionally the US has always been Christian.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#42. To: Feynman Lives!, Phaedrus (#12)
I showed you PROOF to the contrary.
#43. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#36)
God's Word does not come back to Him void.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#44. To: Diana (#42)
You mean the proof that some of the founding fathers were not Christian?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#45. To: Feynman Lives! (#41)
#46. To: Feynman Lives! (#13)
Phaedrus,
#47. To: Diana (#45)
I don't think so, because throughout western civilization, when Christianity took hold in Europe it became a way of life for the majority of people except for Jews who kept their religion, and the agnostics who have a hard time believing in things where there is no proof.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#48. To: Feynman Lives! (#15)
You might want to consider, before you make a bigger fool of yourself, that Greece is considered the foundation of western civilization because their art, philosophy, science, political ideas etc went on to spread throughout Europe and many places around the globe.
#49. To: Diana (#46)
I think you can do better than that.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#50. To: Diana (#48)
thought the argument was over whether the US has traditionally been a Christian country, not Ancient Greece
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#51. To: Feynman Lives! (#28)
Do you think that the bible is 100% FACT, or FICTION?
#52. To: Feynman Lives! (#44)
GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#53. To: Diana (#51)
That is a very difficult question for anyone to answer, as there are so many versions of the bible
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#54. To: Diana (#52)
But culturally the US did morph into a Christian nation.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#55. To: Feynman Lives!, diana (#50)
Sorry, but christianity just ain't the right answer... sure it has influence now, but it was not the FOUNDATION of it all... not by a longshot.
#56. To: tom007 (#55)
So what was?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#57. To: Feynman Lives! (#50)
It is not about whether or not there are traditional values existent in socitety, it is about the FOUNDATION of our way of life, western science and civilization.
#58. To: Diana (#57)
But foundations change, you can have a country that lays down rules as it's foundation, but as times go by things always tend to change.
2: the fundamental assumptions from which something is begun or developed or calculated or explained; "the whole argument rested on a basis of conjecture" [syn: basis, base, fundament, groundwork, cornerstone]
3: lowest support of a structure; "it was built on a base of solid rock"; "he stood at the foot of the tower" [syn: base, fundament, foot, groundwork, substructure, understructure]
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#59. To: Feynman Lives! (#54)
Furthermore, this is NOT what Phaedrus was talking about, you are OFF topic with your point (which is also loosely made).
#60. To: Feynman Lives!, diana (#56)
The GREEKS were around and building their culture many CENTURIES before Jesus or the bible showed up on the scene. The civilization of ancient Greece flowered more than 2500 years ago but it influences the way we live today.
#61. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#16)
You are right...the US government was not founded on Christianity. It was founded on Judeo-FreeMasonry.
#62. To: Diana (#59)
Why does it have to be? I wasn't responding to Phaedrus, I was responding to you.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#63. To: Feynman Lives! (#56)
To: tom007
#64. To: christine (#61)
America, on the other hand is another story, and I've explained it here more than once. Ezekiel 34:13; Micah 4; Psalm 2, etc. etc. The whole Bible is fulfilled in Jesus Christ and being fulfilled in America.
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#65. To: Diana, Feynman Lives! (#59)
#66. To: Feynman Lives! (#62)
You took the conversation out of context and tried to spin it in a direction that was not being discussed.
#67. To: Diana (#59)
However I maintain that the US traditionally and culturally has been a majority Christian country
#68. To: christine (#61)
#69. To: Diana (#63)
Okey I'll bite, are you referring to the remarks of the founding fathers?
"THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." ----1796 Treaty of Tripoli — initiated by George Washington and signed into law by John Adams
#70. To: AllTheKingsHorsesWontDoIt (#17)
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