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Title: The Parties of Jefferson, Lincoln and FDR Are Dead
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Published: Jun 10, 2016
Author: Stephen Lendman
Post Date: 2016-06-10 08:42:40 by Stephen Lendman
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Views: 504
Comments: 48
The Parties of Jefferson, Lincoln and FDR Are Dead by Stephen Lendman America was never beautiful. Today it’s unfit and unsafe to live in, a monster threatening humanity’s survival. US duopoly power replaced the eras of Jefferson, Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt. No JFKs exist, a peacemaker assassinated for opposing war, urging nuclear disarmament and rapprochement with Soviet Russia. New Deal, Fair Deal and Great Society programs are heading for history’s dust bin. Bipartisan neocons infesting Washington want social justice ended, neoliberal enslavement replacing it, fascist police state harshness enforcing it. America is a gangster state, criminals running it - beginning in the 1990s under Bill Clinton, hardened under George W. Bush, institutionalized under Obama, certain to worsen no matter who succeeds him. US voters in November get to choose between deplorable, unacceptable choices - Clinton the most recklessly dangerous presidential aspirant in US history, Trump a billionaire, racist demagogue, both self-serving, mindless of popular needs and concerns. Four more years of endless imperial wars are certain. America will resemble Guatemala before they end, its people impoverished, terrorized by police state harshness, constitutional rights replaced by full-blown tyranny. Most disturbing is how uninformed and indifferent most Americans are about a ruthless system destroying their lives, welfare and futures. Elections accomplish nothing, rigged to sustain continuity, benefitting wealth, privilege and power exclusively over progressive governance of, by and for everyone equitably. The nation I grew up in from the 1930s through the 60s no longer exists, unfit and unsafe to live in since neocons usurped power - Hillary Clinton their current standard bearer. Will November’s election (sic) be rigged to install her? Corporate controlled electronic voting machines make it simple. So does disenfranchising millions of unwanted voters. Green party presidential aspirant Jill Stein blasted the Democrat party, calling it “a disgrace… blatantly rigging the system” for Clinton, the corrupted media establishment supporting her, an unindicted racketeer, war criminal, major threat to world peace. Late in my life, I can’t shake a deep foreboding for what I fear coming, dangers threatening everyone, youths with no futures, endless wars on a slippery slope toward possible mass annihilation. Poet TS Eliot once mused about the world one day ending “not with a bang but a whimper.” Thermonuclear weapons in the hands of neocons like Hillary Clinton risk otherwise. Stephen Lendman lives in Chicago. He can be reached at lendmanstephen@sbcglobal.net. His new book as editor and contributor is titled "Flashpoint in Ukraine: US Drive for Hegemony Risks WW III." http://www.claritypress.com/LendmanIII.html Visit his blog site at sjlendman.blogspot.com. Listen to cutting-edge discussions with distinguished guests on the Progressive Radio News Hour on the Progressive Radio Network.
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#1. To: Stephen Lendman (#0)
I beg to differ. There are parts of America that are very beautiful indeed. The author of this piece needs to get out more. A Ok,so he is just confused. JFK wasn't a peacemaker. He was a coward. They are different things. He is also delusional. America would be safe and secure today if they had been tossed in the dustbin the instant WW-2 ended. Blah,blah,blan. He is so clueless he is confusing conservationism with globalism. He obviously grew up as a leftist,and was trained to be a kneejerk leftist in school. Nothing could be further from the truth. The so-called "neo-cons" are nothing but fascists,and Fascism is a left-wing political movement. A Fascist is what a Communist turns into when/if they grow up. Proof that even a dim bulb can have an instant of brilliance. Absolutely SPOT ON! And his train leaves the tracks once again. Presidents are NOT elected to bow to popular needs and concerns. Presidents are elected to GOVERN,and to govern in such a matter they do what is best for the NATION,not any one group of individuals whiners. More proof he was raised and programmed as a leftist. Uhhhhh,uhhhh,uhhhhh........ The dummy has recognized the problem,and is still clueless about the cause,which is one he has most likely promoted his entire life. See? Have you ever seen bullshit piled higher? "Progressive" is a leftist code word for "Fascist". Some people will never learn because they are incapable of looking at anything with a open mind and open eyes. They prefer their dogma over any reality they will ever be presented. Only because fools like you worked hard your whole life to destroy it. Once again,you fool,there is NOTHING the tiniest bit conservative about Fascism,and Bubbette! is nothing more than a modern day Mussolini,but without all the polished charm. You should fear it because you and your comrades were the ones that created the present and the near future. Just because late in life you woke up and discovered you were not to be a part of the ruling classes changes nothing.
That was a splendid and incisive dissection of a yet another poorly aimed Lendman rant, sneakypete. There's nothing that evokes less sympathy than a red diaper baby crying atop the heap of destruction that his forebears did so much to bring about. "If ignorance is truly bliss, then why do so many Americans need Prozac?" - Dave McGowan
Hey Sneaky good to see you ! You broke that down well, thank youz Hi Pete, nice to see you here. However, I must strongly disagree with your quoted statement. JFK was assassinated because he threatened the global war machine. He was about to end US involvement in Vietnam, was about to dissolve the CIA due to its criminal and immoral activities, and demanded that Israel agree to allow US inspectors inside of their Dimona nuclear research facility to ensure they weren't developing nuclear weapons. So I don't understand how you could view him as a coward. Thank you,but the underprivileged and under-educated self-styled intellectual elites are always easy pickings. They are incapable of actual thought.
Thank you. Maybe I can stay here 15-20 minutes without getting banned for defending the Bill of Rights and insisting ALL Americans have the same rights as well as the same obligations.
No,he wasn't. He LOVED the global war machine. It made him feel macho,and all punks love feeling macho. I am GUESSING he was killed because his father stole the election from the people who really won it,and they were steamed anad went out and found a patsy to rectify the "injustice". Just a guess,though. >>He was about to end US involvement in Vietnam, was about to dissolve the CIA due to its criminal and immoral activities, and demanded that Israel agree to allow US inspectors inside of their Dimona nuclear research facility to ensure they weren't developing nuclear weapons.<< All Kennedy Klan propaganda. After he was killed the Kennedy Klan were out of business politically on the right,so they took a hard left turn,and that shithead Robert suddenly became the darling of the left,after being chief consul for the House Un-American Activities Committee. He went from investigating them to being one of their leaders in the blink of an eye. He was a coward because instead of doing his duty in the Pacific and laying off the strait the Japanese were moving supplies through so he could attack and sink Japanese troop and cargo ships,he threw out a sea anchor and let his PT boat drift while he and the whole crew took a nap. Men under his command died because of this,and it seriously pisses me off that the Kennedy Klan were allowed to turn his cowardice into heroism. The Navy wanted to court-martial him for dereliction of duty,and old man Joe Kennedy was pushing Roosevelt to give him a Medal of Honor. The compromise was neither happpened.
Nope. Apparently you have an axe to grind, I'm just reporting facts. Doing something dumb does not make a coward, if your account is accurate. It's well documented and accepted that he saved the life of his crew through extreme heroism and valor after the boat was hit, so your depiction of him being a coward is entirely inaccurate. And WHO exactly was SUPPOSED to win that election? Some war mongering bastard like LBJ? My overall view on the matter is that not only was it enough to murder JFK, assassinating him physically, no, those who plotted and carried out the murder felt it necessary to assassinate his memory, his character, and that of his entire family. That way, perhaps someday in the future if we EVER find out exactly who was behind the assassination, they would be seen as "patriots" who did what had to be done... Obviously, who ever DID commit the assassination had full support from the highest branches of the US government along with the entire news media in order to orchestrate a successful coverup for all these decades.. He was about to end US involvement in Vietnam Exit Strategy: In 1963, JFK ordered a complete withdrawal from Vietnam You do know you are talking to someone who was in the US Army Special Forces in 1964,right? I personally knew US Army soldiers that were sent to Cambodia,Laos,and South VN in the 1959-1963 time period,and was at Bragg when the 5th SFG was pulling warm breathing bodies from other groups in preparation for deploying the whole group to VN. Those things don't happen overnight. Since JFK LOVED Special Forces and used a Presidential Order to authorize SF to wear a beret in spite of the wishes of the regular army Establishment,you can bet he was the one that set that in motion. The 10th SFG was located in Bad Tolz Germany 1953 from Bragg in order to run "stay behind" guerilla operations against the Soviets if they finally decided to take over West Germany. They had a awful lot of Lodge Act Europeans in the 10th back then,and some of them barely spoke English. Hell,some barely spoke German. JFK not only didn't pull them back,he sent reinforcements after expanding the size of SF.
Refusing to engage the enemy after being ordered to do so isn't dumb. It's cowardly and an actual crime. He saved the life of ONE crewman,not his crew. Which was only fair because the man was burned and drowning due to JFK's cowardice and failure to even put someone on watch. He grew up boating and swimming,and was an excellent swimmer. He does deserve a "atta boy!" for finally performing his duties,but there was no combat or unusual risk involved. They were both in the water with no boat,and the Japanese destroyer was gone and didn't even know they had hit anything. But if you are determined to believe the Kennedy Klan propaganda about JFK,no skin off my nose.
And *I* am the one with a axe to grind? Off the top of my head,I can't even remember who the Republican presidential candidate was that he ran against. In case you don't remember,it wasn't LBJ.
His entire family was shit then,and they are still shit today. Old Man Joe was fired from being the Ambassador to the Court of St.James after Churchill insisted King Franklin replace him after British Intelligence produced proof he was giving Allied war plans to the IRA. If you care to remember,the IRA were assets of the Nazi's during WW-2.
I personally knew US Army soldiers that were sent to Cambodia,Laos,and South VN in the 1959-1963 time period,and was at Bragg when the 5th SFG was pulling warm breathing bodies from other groups in preparation for deploying the whole group to VN. And you're trying to tell me those WERE NOT CIA operations? Hate to tell you this, but Kennedy wasn't president back in 1959.. Those things don't happen overnight. Since JFK LOVED Special Forces and used a Presidential Order to authorize SF to wear a beret in spite of the wishes of the regular army Establishment,you can bet he was the one that set that in motion. From History of the Green Beret When President Kennedy came to Fort Bragg Oct. 12, 1961, General Yarborough wore his Green Beret to greet the commander-in-chief. The president remarked, “Those are nice. How do you like the Green Beret?” General Yarborough replied, “They’re fine, Sir. We’ve wanted them a long time.” A message from President Kennedy to General Yarborough later that day stated, “My congratulations to you personally for your part in the presentation today … The challenge of this old but new form of operations is a real one, and I know that you and the members of your command will carry on for us and the free world in a manner which is both worthy and inspiring. I am sure that the Green Beret will be a mark of distinction in the trying times ahead.” In an April 1962 White House memorandum for the U.S. Army, President Kennedy showed his continued support for SF, calling the Green Beret “a symbol of excellence, a badge of courage, a mark of distinction in the fight for freedom.” Regardless of all that, you are not refuting the statement of fact that I posted earlier, in that JFK had started the process of withdrawing US troops from Vietnam. From U.S. Exit Strategy: In 1963, JFK ordered a complete withdrawal from Vietnam After much debate, the president endorsed our recommendation to withdraw 1,000 men by December 31, 1963. He did so, I recall, without indicating his reasoning. In any event, because objections had been so intense and because I suspected others might try to get him to reverse the decision, I urged him to announce it publicly. That would set it in concrete. . . . The president finally agreed, and the announcement was released by Pierre Salinger after the meeting. Before a large audience at the LBJ Library on May 1, 1995, McNamara restated his account of this meeting and stressed its importance. He confirmed that President Kennedy’s action had three elements: (1) complete withdrawal “by December 31, 1965,” (2) the first 1,000 out by the end of 1963, and (3) a public announcement, to set these decisions “in concrete,” which was made. McNamara also added the critical information that there exists a tape of this meeting, in the John F. Kennedy Library in Boston, to which he had access and on which his account is based. The existence of a taping system in JFK’s oval office had become known over the years, particularly through the release of partial transcripts of the historic meeting of the “ExComm” during the Cuban Missile Crisis of October 1962. But the full extent of Kennedy’s taping was not known. And, according to McNamara, access to particular tapes was tightly controlled by representatives of the Kennedy family. When McNamara spoke in Austin, only he and his coauthor, Brian VanDeMark, had been granted the privilege of listening to the actual tape recordings of Kennedy’s White House meetings on Vietnam. In 1997, however, this situation changed. The Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB), an independent civilian body established under the 1992 JFK Records Act that has already been responsible for the release of millions of pages of official records deemed relevant to Kennedy’s assassination, ruled that his tapes relating to Vietnam decision-making should be released. In July the JFK Library began releasing key tapes, including those of the withdrawal meetings on October 2 and 5, 1963.7 A careful review of the October 2 meeting makes clear that McNamara’s account is essentially accurate and even to some degree understated. One can hear McNamara—the voice is unmistakable—arguing for a firm timetable to withdraw all U.S. forces from Vietnam, whether the war can be won in 1964, which he doubts, or not. McNamara is emphatic: “We need a way to get out of Vietnam, and this is a way of doing it.” In Retrospect’s discussion of Kennedy’s decision to withdraw ends at this point. McNamara makes no mention of NSAM 263. However, on the tape of the meeting of October 5, 1963, one can clearly hear a voice—it may be Robert McNamara or McGeorge Bundy—asking President John F. Kennedy for “formal approval” of “items one, two, and three” on a paper evidently in front of them. It is clear that one of these items is the recommendation to withdraw 1,000 men by the end of 1963, the rationale being that they are no longer needed. This short exchange is thus unmistakably a request for a formal presidential decision concerning the McNamara-Taylor recommendations. After a short discussion of the possible political effect in Vietnam of announcing this decision, the voice of JFK can be clearly heard: “Let’s go on ahead and do it,” followed by a few words deciphered by historian George Eliades as “without making a public statement about it.” Seems like you're inventing your own version of history.. From PT-109: Is JFK a Hero or Incompetent? Reprinted from An Unfinished Life: John F. Kennedy, 1917-1963 by Robert Dallek. Back Bay Books Since the speedy PTs were fast enough to avoid being run over by a large destroyer and since Jack's boat was the only PT ever rammed in the entire war, questions were raised about his performance in battle. "He (Kennedy) wasn't particularly good boat commander," Warfield said later. Other PT captains were critical of him for sitting in the middle of Blackett Strait with only one engine running, which reduced the amount of churning water that could be seen (and the likelihood of being spotted and bombed by Japanese planes) but decreased the boat's chances of making a quick escape from an onrushing destroyer. In fact, the failure lay not with Jack, but with the tactics followed by all PT boat captains and circumstances beyond Kennedy's control. Since only four of the fifteen boats had radar and since it was pitch-black night, it was impossible for the other eleven PTs to either follow the leaders with radar or spot the Japanese destroyers. After the radar equipped boats fired their torpedoes, they returned to base and left the other PTs largely blind. "Abandoned by their leaders and enjoined to radio silence, the remaining PT boats had no real chance, in the pitch dark, of ambushing the Japanese destroyers," one of the boat commanders later said. He saved his crew (with the exception of the two killed on the evening of the crash) by swimming out to Ferguson Passage and trying to signal passing PT boats, and by having his crew swim (with him towing the injured crewman) to a nearby island, then swimming with another crew mate out to another island, finding a canoe, using it several times to try to flag down a US ship, eventually finding local natives who could get his message on a coconut to the US Navy so they could be rescued. No, it was Richard Nixon. Now why was HE supposed to win the election? Seems to me you have an axe to grind with anything Kennedy. Old Man Joe was fired from being the Ambassador to the Court of St.James after Churchill insisted King Franklin replace him after British Intelligence produced proof he was giving Allied war plans to the IRA. Not saying it's untrue, but do you have any links? Who are you,the professional Kennedy Klan apologist? He swam out to the Ferguson Passage to try to signal passing PT boats so he could save HIMSELF. Yes,the crew would be saved also,but the way you state it sounds like you think he was going to load them on a rescue boat and stay behind. His daddy was a traitor,he was a coward,and so were his shithead brothers. Deal with it.
No, it was Richard Nixon. Now why was HE supposed to win the election? Uhhh,because he got the most votes? Think that might have something to do with it?
Seems to me you have an axe to grind with anything Kennedy. I don't like traitors and self-servers,and make no apology for it. Not saved I don't,but they are just as easy for you to find as they are for me,and I am not the one that has to learn the truth. I recommend using Joe Kennedy,Ambassador to the Court of Saint James,and The IRA as keywords. It's hardly a secret. It's been know publicly and published since the 50's. I think Churchill wrote about it in his memoirs.
Olde Joe was labeled the "minute man" by Gloria Swanson, bet you know why.
He made several trips to adjacent islands to find a way to get rescued, and not by himself but with some of his healthier crew members. As far as sitting in Ferguson Passage, he wasn't the only member of the crew doing the same thing, trying to signal a Navy ship.. I've read that JFK had the most votes. So do you have any links that say otherwise? And how do you view LBJ or any of the other presidents since then? I do give him credit for doing most of it,but he was the best swimmer,and his own survival was also at risk. Where the focus should be is that it was HE that put his crew under his command in that position in the first place.
You're the one making the claim, not I, so it should be easy enough for you to post a link, right? I didn't take you to raise and I am not being paid to educate you. Look it up. His father even complained that JFK was steamed because he barely bought enough votes to get him elected,and has been quoted as telling him "I don't mind buying you an election,but I'm not going to buy you a landslide."
By doing as all the other PT commanders had to do, having no radar in a pitch black night, and that was to sit there as silently as possible in total radio silence. Seem like your repeating a bit of gossip, do you have any legit sources for those claims? What difference does that make? How does their honestly and patriotism have anything to do with what the Kennedy Klan did,one way or the other? Each stands on his own. I will say that other than Reagan they were all shitheads,and LBJ may have been the most evil man to ever sit in the WH,and that's taking on some territory.
Yup,but it is just as easy for you to self-educate,and it is not MY job to teach you. Not going to do it. If you are happy stewing in your own ignorance and looking clueless because you are too lazy to look this stuff up,that's on you.
Are you saying all the other PT commanders on patrol put out sea anchors and let their boats drift around freely with no one on watch while they all slept? Ever been at sea? War ships and even troop ships made a hell of a lot of noise traveling at sea,and noise really travels over open water. it's even easier to hear at night. Yet a Japanese destroyer cut the PT boat in two while transiting the Straight,and didn't even know what they had hit. This is according to the ship log book.
You must think I am your long-lost father. Find it yourself or wallow in your ignorance.
You're the one making the claims, not I. Everything I said I backed up with references, whereas some dubious claims you've made you apparently can't find even one reference to back up your claim. You can claim that we're all living in a zoo controlled by evil reptilians, but unless you have some proof, it's all just an unproven theory of sneakypete's. Again, post a link. Unless you can prove it, it didn't happen the way you claim. And you are the one claiming I am wrong. I KNOW I am right,but you only suspect I am wrong. Prove it. Once you make the effort,you will find out I was right all along. I no longer play that "links,please" game for bozos whose only real interest is keeping me busy wasting my time to look up links they can then claim they prove nothing and need to see better/more reputable links. Either look it up yourself or STFU about it.
ESAD. You can wash it down with Kennedy bathwater to sweeten it up for you.
Comments (41 - 48) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAmerica was never beautiful.
No JFKs exist, a peacemaker assassinated for opposing war, urging nuclear disarmament and rapprochement with Soviet Russia.<<
New Deal, Fair Deal and Great Society programs are heading for history’s dust bin.<<
as Bipartisan neocons infesting Washington want social justice ended, neoliberal enslavement replacing it, fascist police state harshness enforcing it. <<
America is a gangster state, criminals running it - beginning in the 1990s under Bill Clinton, hardened under George W. Bush, institutionalized under Obama, certain to worsen no matter who succeeds him. <<
US voters in November get to choose between deplorable, unacceptable choices - Clinton the most recklessly dangerous presidential aspirant in US history, Trump a billionaire, racist demagogue, both self-serving, mindless of popular needs and concerns. <<
Most disturbing is how uninformed and indifferent most Americans are about a ruthless system destroying their lives, welfare and futures. <<
Elections accomplish nothing, rigged to sustain continuity, benefitting wealth, privilege and power exclusively over progressive governance of, by and for everyone equitably. <<
The nation I grew up in from the 1930s through the 60s no longer exists,<<
... unfit and unsafe to live in since neocons usurped power - Hillary Clinton their current standard bearer. <<
Late in my life, I can’t shake a deep foreboding for what I fear coming, dangers threatening everyone, youths with no futures, endless wars on a slippery slope toward possible mass annihilation. <<
#2. To: sneakypete (#1)
#3. To: sneakypete (#1)
"Define yourself as one beloved by God. This is the true self. Every other identity is illusion."—Brennan Manning
#4. To: sneakypete (#1)
Ok,so he is just confused. JFK wasn't a peacemaker. He was a coward. They are different things.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination 
#5. To: randge (#2)
#6. To: Rotara (#3)
#7. To: FormerLurker (#4)
JFK was assassinated because he threatened the global war machine.<<
So I don't understand how you could view him as a coward.<<
#8. To: sneakypete (#7)
All Kennedy Klan propaganda. After he was killed the Kennedy Klan were out of business politically on the right,so they took a hard left turn,and that shithead Robert suddenly became the darling of the left,after being chief consul for the House Un-American Activities Committee. He went from investigating them to being one of their leaders in the blink of an eye.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#9. To: sneakypete (#7)
e was a coward because instead of doing his duty in the Pacific and laying off the strait the Japanese were moving supplies through so he could attack and sink Japanese troop and cargo ships,he threw out a sea anchor and let his PT boat drift while he and the whole crew took a nap.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#10. To: sneakypete (#7)
I am GUESSING he was killed because his father stole the election from the people who really won it
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#11. To: sneakypete, 4 (#7)
(Edited)
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#12. To: FormerLurker (#8)
Nope. Apparently you have an axe to grind, I'm just reporting facts.
#13. To: FormerLurker (#9)
Doing something dumb does not make a coward, if your account is accurate.
It's well documented and accepted that he saved the life of his crew through extreme heroism and valor after the boat was hit, so your depiction of him being a coward is entirely inaccurate. <<
#14. To: FormerLurker (#10)
And WHO exactly was SUPPOSED to win that election? Some war mongering bastard like LBJ?
#15. To: FormerLurker (#11)
My overall view on the matter is that not only was it enough to murder JFK, assassinating him physically, no, those who plotted and carried out the murder felt it necessary to assassinate his memory, his character, and that of his entire family.
#16. To: sneakypete (#12)
The Green Beret was originally designed in 1953 by SF Major Herbert Brucker, a veteran of the OSS. Later that year, First Lieutenant Roger Pezelle adopted it as the unofficial headgear for his A-team, Operational Detachment FA32. They wore it whenever they went to the field for prolonged exercises. Soon it spread throughout all of SF, although the Army refused to authorize its official use. Finally, in 1961, President John F. Kennedy planned to visit Fort Bragg. He sent word to the Special Warfare Center commander, Brigadier General William P. Yarborough, for all SF Soldiers to wear their berets for the event. President Kennedy felt that since they had a special mission, SF should have something to set them apart from the rest. Even before the presidential request, however, the Department of the Army had acquiesced and teletyped a message to the center authorizing the beret as a part of the SF uniform.
As McNamara’s 1986 oral history, on deposit at the Lyndon Baines Johnson Library, makes clear (but his book does not), he was himself in the second group, who favored withdrawal without victory—not necessarily admitting or even predicting defeat, but accepting uncertainty as to what would follow. The denouement came shortly thereafter:
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#17. To: sneakypete (#13)
Refusing to engage the enemy after being ordered to do so isn't dumb. It's cowardly and an actual crime.
The attack by the boats against the superior Japanese force failed. Broken communications between PTs produced uncoordinated, futile action; only half of the boats fired torpedoes --thirty-two out of sixty available-- and did so without causing any damage. Worse yet, Jack's boat was sliced in half by one of the Japanese destroyers, killing two of the crew members and casting the other eleven, including Jack, adrift.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#18. To: sneakypete (#13)
He saved the life of ONE crewman,not his crew. Which was only fair because the man was burned and drowning due to JFK's cowardice and failure to even put someone on watch.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#19. To: sneakypete (#14)
Off the top of my head,I can't even remember who the Republican presidential candidate was that he ran against.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#20. To: sneakypete (#15)
His entire family was shit then,and they are still shit today.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#21. To: FormerLurker (#18)
He saved his crew (with the exception of the two killed on the evening of the crash) by swimming out to Ferguson Passage and trying to signal passing PT boats, and by having his crew swim (with him towing the injured crewman) to a nearby island, then swimming with another crew mate out to another island, finding a canoe, using it several times to try to flag down a US ship, eventually finding local natives who could get his message on a coconut to the US Navy so they could be rescued.
#22. To: FormerLurker (#19)
Off the top of my head,I can't even remember who the Republican presidential candidate was that he ran against.
#23. To: FormerLurker (#20)
His entire family was shit then,and they are still shit today.
Old Man Joe was fired from being the Ambassador to the Court of St.James after Churchill insisted King Franklin replace him after British Intelligence produced proof he was giving Allied war plans to the IRA.<< ME
Not saying it's untrue, but do you have any links?<<
#24. To: sneakypete (#23)
#25. To: sneakypete (#21)
He swam out to the Ferguson Passage to try to signal passing PT boats so he could save HIMSELF. Yes,the crew would be saved also,but the way you state it sounds like you think he was going to load them on a rescue boat and stay behind.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#26. To: sneakypete (#22)
Uhhh,because he got the most votes? Think that might have something to do with it?
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#27. To: sneakypete (#23)
I don't like traitors and self-servers,and make no apology for it.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#28. To: FormerLurker (#25)
As far as sitting in Ferguson Passage, he wasn't the only member of the crew doing the same thing, trying to signal a Navy ship..
#29. To: sneakypete (#23)
Not saved I don't,but they are just as easy for you to find as they are for me
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#30. To: FormerLurker (#26)
I've read that JFK had the most votes. So do you have any links that say otherwise?
#31. To: sneakypete (#28)
Where the focus should be is that it was HE that put his crew under his command in that position in the first place.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#32. To: sneakypete (#30)
His father even complained that JFK was steamed because he barely bought enough votes to get him elected,and has been quoted as telling him "I don't mind buying you an election,but I'm not going to buy you a landslide."
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#33. To: FormerLurker (#27)
And how do you view LBJ or any of the other presidents since then?
#34. To: FormerLurker (#29)
it should be easy enough for you to post a link, right?
#35. To: FormerLurker (#31)
(Edited)
By doing as all the other PT commanders had to do, having no radar in a pitch black night, and that was to sit there as silently as possible in total radio silence.
#36. To: FormerLurker (#32)
Seem like your repeating a bit of gossip, do you have any legit sources for those claims?
#37. To: sneakypete (#34)
Yup,but it is just as easy for you to self-educate,and it is not MY job to teach you.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#38. To: sneakypete (#35)
Are you saying all the other PT commanders on patrol put out sea anchors and let their boats drift around freely with no one on watch while they all slept?
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#39. To: FormerLurker (#37)
You're the one making the claims, not I.
#40. To: FormerLurker (#38)
Again, post a link. Unless you can prove it, it didn't happen the way you claim.
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