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Title: Trump Responds to "Tough, Nasty" Question About "Zionist Israel" During Town Hall Q & A
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URL Source: http://libertyfight.com/2016/trump-asked-about-zionist-israel.html
Published: Jul 4, 2016
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Post Date: 2016-07-04 04:52:51 by Artisan
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Views: 1290
Comments: 70
On Thursday, June 30, 2016 at a campaign event in Manchester, New Hampshire, a man at the town hall told Donald Trump he's "opposed to wasting our military in the Middle East on behalf of Zionist Israel." Trump replied "Israel is a very, very important ally of the United States and we are going to protect them 100%. 100%. It's our true friend over there." Later, Trump added "That was a tough question on Israel. That was nasty. Whoa." The man who asked about "Zionist Israel" also said"I'm opposed to the murder of unborn babies being legal," to which Trump replied "We are with you." Watch the video here:
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#28. To: NeoconsNailed (#23)
well it certainly is an interesting topic. widespread birth control has been promoted by the likes of ghoul bush senior and his ilk for years. the power that be have been very successful, resulting in a plummeting birth rate. so I think its kind of funny when white power folks whine that the Mexicans are out- birthing them. also I believe that fertility rates in general have dropped substantially for a number of reasons, so this contributes to it. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Whom did GHWB successfully promote contraception to -- Africa? You'd disagree with that in other words? www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation- world/world/article24566695.html And you think white power people shouldn't complain about the invaders' prolificity, is that it? Rivero keeps saying they're having less kids and blaming it on GMO corn -- you know the Mexicanos and their tortillas. Every cloud has a silver lining :-] _____________________________________________________________ THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US AND THEM - gliberals and 80% of Amurricans - is that they go by the surface of things whereas we probe their reality. The surface of things is what the toxic mass media dish up, a totally contrived matrix of their wishful thinking and their commie-Jew dogma.
To the entire world. George H.W. Bush: Evil Population Control Ghoul - Rubbers Goes to Congress Yes,. Bush is a freemason, a Satanist and arch criminal. I don't agree with him or the likes of him on anything. Also: The people who complain about whites not having kids should realize that that is by their own stupid choice. birth control, abortion and selfishness. it is pathetic. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
So you're not going to agree with Bush about anything, even if he's right, and you think it's stupid to be alarmed by "immigrants" breeding like rabbits? Just trying to get the picture. Nobody's commenting on my thesis that by all powers of deduction, good Catholics have to be using lots of birth control :-) _____________________________________________________________ Bush is not right . since he is a Satanist, he by definition can not be right. and no, abortion and population control is not right and has never been, with conservatives. a Catholic who uses artificial birth control is being selfish, hedonistic, and is playing God,. they are committing a mortal sin. That is not good. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Oh, God -- not that. Not you! This is like when W started his genocide. Merely because he was Republican, half the otherwise intelligent people I knew fanatically supported it regardless of previous sanity levels. More than one told me "WE CAN'T AGREE WITH THE DEMOCRATS ABOUT ANYTHING" even if it means a million dead Iraqis and thousands of "body bags". A stopt clock is right twice a day -- nobody can lie about literally everything?!?! 98% of all-American Catholic wives are damning themselves to 500 years in purgatory by not using the rithm method :-3 https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2012/02/guttmacher-statistic-catholic- womens-contraceptive-use (I'm your 2-legged mosquito, huh, Art :-) _____________________________________________________________ Is having tubes tied OK with the Church?
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
It is up to each individual and their conscience what they would do in such a situation so I am not worried about it. I only replied since you asked. I do not believe in infanticide because it is murder. Murderers who do not repent will spend eternity in hell. That is not a good thing. Well, women and advocates need not justify it because it's an absolute privacy right. (If one had to justify the exercise of rights they'd be privileges). And, your gratuitous use of the term "murder" only promotes moral confusion. CA has the best definition: CA Penal Code Sec. 187: "The unlawful killing of a human being, or a fetus, with malice." A legal abortion is not murder. You may believe it to be the moral equivalent of murder, but your opinion stops at the edge of her right to privacy and the right to control her own reproductive system. (Some animal activists believe that "meat is murder" They find the word equally self serving in framing an otherwise losing argument) There is no disputing that abortion has become the escape chute for millions of irresponsible people, but, strong govt breeds weak citizens, and nothing good can come from religious Jihadists in control of our country.
Please excuse the out of sync reply but I agree. Every election it's the same thing-a choice between one of the last peeps I'd want as prez and the last perthun I'd vote for.
Three I wanted: Ross Perot, Ron Paul, and now Trump. I hope that my track record improves this time.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
just to clarify bud, you cant damn yourself to purgatory. the souls in purgatory are not damned. if you make it to purgatory, yes you have to make reparation there, )hence why Jesus says to "pray for the dead.") but if one makes it to purgatory, they are not damned. they are far from damned. they have made it to heaven. some saints have described purgatory as a hell with a hope. whereas if someone dies in the state of mortal sin, there is no hope. its over. people condemned to hell have no hope. now these days many people do not believe that satan exists or that there is a hell. "why, how could a loving benevolent God send souls to hell!?" they cry. Yes God is a loving God but He is a just God too. the lie that satan and hell does not exist is the biggest lie people fall for. It is very sad. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
No. that is essentially the same thing except even worse because it is permanent (except in the case of if it an be reversed.) Here is the actual catechism on that which is quite interesting. http ://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm The fecundity of marriage 2366 Fecundity is a gift, an end of marriage, for conjugal love naturally tends to be fruitful. A child does not come from outside as something added on to the mutual love of the spouses, but springs from the very heart of that mutual giving, as its fruit and fulfillment. So the Church, which is "on the side of life,"151 teaches that "it is necessary that each and every marriage act remain ordered per se to the procreation of human life."152 "This particular doctrine, expounded on numerous occasions by the Magisterium, is based on the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act."153 2367 Called to give life, spouses share in the creative power and fatherhood of God.154 "Married couples should regard it as their proper mission to transmit human life and to educate their children; they should realize that they are thereby cooperating with the love of God the Creator and are, in a certain sense, its interpreters. They will fulfill this duty with a sense of human and Christian responsibility."155 2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality: When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.156 2369 "By safeguarding both these essential aspects, the unitive and the procreative, the conjugal act preserves in its fullness the sense of true mutual love and its orientation toward man's exalted vocation to parenthood."157 2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, "every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is intrinsically evil:159 Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.160 2371 "Let all be convinced that human life and the duty of transmitting it are not limited by the horizons of this life only: their true evaluation and full significance can be understood only in reference to man's eternal destiny."161 2372 The state has a responsibility for its citizens' well-being. In this capacity it is legitimate for it to intervene to orient the demography of the population. This can be done by means of objective and respectful information, but certainly not by authoritarian, coercive measures. The state may not legitimately usurp the initiative of spouses, who have the primary responsibility for the procreation and education of their children.162 In this area, it is not authorized to employ means contrary to the moral law. The gift of a child 2373 Sacred Scripture and the Church's traditional practice see in large families a sign of God's blessing and the parents' generosity.163 2374 Couples who discover that they are sterile suffer greatly. "What will you give me," asks Abraham of God, "for I continue childless?"164 And Rachel cries to her husband Jacob, "Give me children, or I shall die!"165 2375 Research aimed at reducing human sterility is to be encouraged, on condition that it is placed "at the service of the human person, of his inalienable rights, and his true and integral good according to the design and will of God."166 2376 Techniques that entail the dissociation of husband and wife, by the intrusion of a person other than the couple (donation of sperm or ovum, surrogate uterus), are gravely immoral. These techniques (heterologous artificial insemination and fertilization) infringe the child's right to be born of a father and mother known to him and bound to each other by marriage. They betray the spouses' "right to become a father and a mother only through each other."167 2377 Techniques involving only the married couple (homologous artificial insemination and fertilization) are perhaps less reprehensible, yet remain morally unacceptable. They dissociate the sexual act from the procreative act. The act which brings the child into existence is no longer an act by which two persons give themselves to one another, but one that "entrusts the life and identity of the embryo into the power of doctors and biologists and establishes the domination of technology over the origin and destiny of the human person. Such a relationship of domination is in itself contrary to the dignity and equality that must be common to parents and children."168 "Under the moral aspect procreation is deprived of its proper perfection when it is not willed as the fruit of the conjugal act, that is to say, of the specific act of the spouses' union . . . . Only respect for the link between the meanings of the conjugal act and respect for the unity of the human being make possible procreation in conformity with the dignity of the person."169 2378 A child is not something owed to one, but is a gift. The "supreme gift of marriage" is a human person. A child may not be considered a piece of property, an idea to which an alleged "right to a child" would lead. In this area, only the child possesses genuine rights: the right "to be the fruit of the specific act of the conjugal love of his parents," and "the right to be respected as a person from the moment of his conception."170 2379 The Gospel shows that physical sterility is not an absolute evil. Spouses who still suffer from infertility after exhausting legitimate medical procedures should unite themselves with the Lord's Cross, the source of all spiritual fecundity. They can give expression to their generosity by adopting abandoned children or performing demanding services for others. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
I wasn't advocating a theocracy, but I've read people who opine that a Catholic monarchy might be a good thing. :-) I am not advocating that either, since I don't know much about it., and it occurred many centuries before I was on earth. Being an American citizen I can only go by what we have here, and prior to 1973 abortion was not widespread. I think going back to those days at least, would be better. I will spare you the photos of aborted babies which clearly show it is an unjust killing, a grisly murder. I do not go by state law, especially California law. or U.S. law. "Thou shalt not kill" says it all. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Brother, if I were assigned to PurgativeLand for 500 years, I for one would feel condemned! Now , take this reply all serious and stuff too and send a sober, buttoned-up reply :-) _____________________________________________________________ Brother, I'll take pings in syncin' or out of syncin'! I'll search a topic here and add something regardless of the 4um page's age. Consider it maximizing the site's usefulness as an ever growing resource. (This was put forth by some pundit a few years ago ("torus" model) and made a big little splash, then vanished.) _____________________________________________________________ And I hope you get your wish. I know better than to hope for a Trump victory for my sake because I'll be disappointed for sure.....
Thank you. And what's this Gothic horror stuff about harvesting parts from fully developed, partially born babies? Profiteering ghouls must be writing the prevailing laws that allow such things. Although I don't advocate murder I can almost understand why some people's timing belts slip, causing them to harshly judge and punish others with the use of rifles or explosives. In the words of a known ape kisser, Charlton Heston, "IT'S A MADHOUSE!" And, the law aside, it's one thing to abort what is euphemistically termed "fetal tissue" in the first trimester. (Primitive tribes and ancient societies had ways of ending and preventing unwanted pregnancies) But harvesting live infant parts is so offensive to the sensibilities of most that you'd think the courts could finally find an extreme upper limit to the right of privacy, even for young Jewish college girls who get knocked up from their obligatory affairs with nig...I mean, African Americans.
Good answer, good answer. I'm gonna be keeping my eye on you! ;)
Where is heaven, and where is hell? Aw, thanks. Fun!!
_____________________________________________________________ “We build but to tear down. Most of our work and resource is squandered. Our onward march is marked by devastation. Everywhere there is an appalling loss of time, effort and life. A cheerless view, but true.” - Tesla per FP
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: http: //www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a12.htm I. THE PARTICULAR JUDGMENT 1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ.592 The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. The parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul--a destiny which can be different for some and for others.593 1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification594 or immediately,595 -- or immediate and everlasting damnation.596 At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love.597 II. HEAVEN 1023 Those who die in God's grace and friendship and are perfectly purified live for ever with Christ. They are like God for ever, for they "see him as he is," face to face:598 By virtue of our apostolic authority, we define the following: According to the general disposition of God, the souls of all the saints . . . and other faithful who died after receiving Christ's holy Baptism (provided they were not in need of purification when they died, . . . or, if they then did need or will need some purification, when they have been purified after death, . . .) already before they take up their bodies again and before the general judgment - and this since the Ascension of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into heaven - have been, are and will be in heaven, in the heavenly Kingdom and celestial paradise with Christ, joined to the company of the holy angels. Since the Passion and death of our Lord Jesus Christ, these souls have seen and do see the divine essence with an intuitive vision, and even face to face, without the mediation of any creature.599 1024 This perfect life with the Most Holy Trinity - this communion of life and love with the Trinity, with the Virgin Mary, the angels and all the blessed - is called "heaven." Heaven is the ultimate end and fulfillment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness. 1025 To live in heaven is "to be with Christ." The elect live "in Christ,"600 but they retain, or rather find, their true identity, their own name.601 For life is to be with Christ; where Christ is, there is life, there is the kingdom.602 1026 By his death and Resurrection, Jesus Christ has "opened" heaven to us. The life of the blessed consists in the full and perfect possession of the fruits of the redemption accomplished by Christ. He makes partners in his heavenly glorification those who have believed in him and remained faithful to his will. Heaven is the blessed community of all who are perfectly incorporated into Christ. 1027 This mystery of blessed communion with God and all who are in Christ is beyond all understanding and description. Scripture speaks of it in images: life, light, peace, wedding feast, wine of the kingdom, the Father's house, the heavenly Jerusalem, paradise: "no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him."603 1028 Because of his transcendence, God cannot be seen as he is, unless he himself opens up his mystery to man's immediate contemplation and gives him the capacity for it. The Church calls this contemplation of God in his heavenly glory "the beatific vision": How great will your glory and happiness be, to be allowed to see God, to be honored with sharing the joy of salvation and eternal light with Christ your Lord and God, . . . to delight in the joy of immortality in the Kingdom of heaven with the righteous and God's friends.604 1029 In the glory of heaven the blessed continue joyfully to fulfill God's will in relation to other men and to all creation. Already they reign with Christ; with him "they shall reign for ever and ever."605 III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY 1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. 1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607 As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608 1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead: Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611 IV. HELL 1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell." 1034 Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"616 1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs. 1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."618 Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."619 1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance":621 Father, accept this offering from your whole family. Grant us your peace in this life, save us from final damnation, and count us among those you have chosen.622 V. THE LAST JUDGMENT 1038 The resurrection of all the dead, "of both the just and the unjust,"623 will precede the Last Judgment. This will be "the hour when all who are in the tombs will hear [the Son of man's] voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment."624 Then Christ will come "in his glory, and all the angels with him. . . . Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. . . . And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."625 1039 In the presence of Christ, who is Truth itself, the truth of each man's relationship with God will be laid bare.626 The Last Judgment will reveal even to its furthest consequences the good each person has done or failed to do during his earthly life: All that the wicked do is recorded, and they do not know. When "our God comes, he does not keep silence.". . . he will turn towards those at his left hand: . . . "I placed my poor little ones on earth for you. I as their head was seated in heaven at the right hand of my Father - but on earth my members were suffering, my members on earth were in need. If you gave anything to my members, what you gave would reach their Head. Would that you had known that my little ones were in need when I placed them on earth for you and appointed them your stewards to bring your good works into my treasury. But you have placed nothing in their hands; therefore you have found nothing in my presence."627 1040 The Last Judgment will come when Christ returns in glory. Only the Father knows the day and the hour; only he determines the moment of its coming. Then through his Son Jesus Christ he will pronounce the final word on all history. We shall know the ultimate meaning of the whole work of creation and of the entire economy of salvation and understand the marvelous ways by which his Providence led everything towards its final end. The Last Judgment will reveal that God's justice triumphs over all the injustices committed by his creatures and that God's love is stronger than death.628 1041 The message of the Last Judgment calls men to conversion while God is still giving them "the acceptable time, . . . the day of salvation."629 It inspires a holy fear of God and commits them to the justice of the Kingdom of God. It proclaims the "blessed hope" of the Lord's return, when he will come "to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at in all who have believed."630 "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
I didn't really see any explanation for WHERE either heaven or hell are, did you? If I were to guess, they would be in some other realm beyond our universe, right? That would make those places extraterrestrial obviously. Do you believe there are such things as extraterrestrials? Myself, I DO believe in extraterrestrials within and beyond our physical universe. However, do you really think that which exists beyond our universe would be the realm of the same jealous, vindictive, angry "God" as described in the Old Testament? I think there are forces, realms, and beings we simply can not understand or fathom. Primitive peoples came up with various mythologies to explain things they couldn't otherwise understand, and described them in human terms. Examples are that the early church taught that the universe revolved around the earth, and that it was flat. They didn't quite know what the stars were, but felt strongly that's where heaven was. For all we truly know, hell could be here on earth, it could be purgatory, or it could even be heaven for some people. Or it could be something else entirely.
The best explanation of hell that I've ever heard: "The eternal separation from the light and love of God."
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
No, the church doesn't get into that in the catechism. although there have been some apparitions by various saints which describe hell (note- even if they are approved by the church, Catholics are not 'required' to believe in such apparitions. it is not a doctrine of the church.) But anyway- supposedly hell is in the center of the earth. heaven would be yes, in a different sphere. I believe that if they exist as some claim, they might just be demons. which is why they would appear reptilian (snake like,) but all in all, I'm not worried about it., & not very interested in the topic. I've heard many people scoff as you have at the notion of how an angry and vindictive 'God' could at the same time be loving and forgiving, yet send people to hell to suffer for all eternity? as the church teaches, people basically choose hell by sticking with their sinful ways. they have a choice. God gave us free will. there are consequences to our actions and lives. That is why I view this life as a grand test. serious stuff. the spiritual battle in the world is between God and satan; it is a battle literally for souls. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
And what about angels, are they really just demons too? In fact, since God doesn't live here on Earth, is he also a demon? That might well be true. However, I don't think current day religious dogma helps the matter one bit. For instance, I don't think there's an entity named satan, but there sure is such a thing as evil, but I see it as more of a negative force than a personified entity. Satan is why there's evil in this world; look it up, and believe.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Evil has many different names, yet it still comes down to the fact that it's evil.
And what about angels, are they really just demons too? In fact, since God doesn't live here on Earth, is he also a demon? that is a ridiculous question, although I maybe I should assume that you aren't familiar with the basic structure of Christian teaching, which I find very difficult (impossible) to believe. I didn't say that any entity not of this world was a reptilian demon. what I said was, IF these alleged space aliens roaming around who look repltilian are real, then they very well could be demons. aka devils. devils are simply fallen angels, who rebelled against God an were cast into hell. they are allowed some power and spend it tempting people and causing havoc in this world. to try to drag souls into hell. Here is a section from the Catechism on angels: (I will post a separate reply on demons (fallen angels). PART ONE THE PROFESSION OF FAITH SECTION TWO THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH CHAPTER ONE I BELIEVE IN GOD THE FATHER ARTICLE I "I BELIEVE IN GOD THE FATHER ALMIGHTY, CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH" Paragraph 5. Heaven and Earth 325 The Apostles' Creed professes that God is "creator of heaven and earth". The Nicene Creed makes it explicit that this profession includes "all that is, seen and unseen". 326 The Scriptural expression "heaven and earth" means all that exists, creation in its entirety. It also indicates the bond, deep within creation, that both unites heaven and earth and distinguishes the one from the other: "the earth" is the world of men, while "heaven" or "the heavens" can designate both the firmament and God's own "place" - "our Father in heaven" and consequently the "heaven" too which is eschatological glory. Finally, "heaven" refers to the saints and the "place" of the spiritual creatures, the angels, who surround God.186 327 The profession of faith of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) affirms that God "from the beginning of time made at once (simul) out of nothing both orders of creatures, the spiritual and the corporeal, that is, the angelic and the earthly, and then (deinde) the human creature, who as it were shares in both orders, being composed of spirit and body."187 I. THE ANGELS The existence of angels - a truth of faith 328 The existence of the spiritual, non-corporeal beings that Sacred Scripture usually calls "angels" is a truth of faith. The witness of Scripture is as clear as the unanimity of Tradition. Who are they? 329 St. Augustine says: "'Angel' is the name of their office, not of their nature. If you seek the name of their nature, it is 'spirit'; if you seek the name of their office, it is 'angel': from what they are, 'spirit', from what they do, 'angel.'"188 With their whole beings the angels are servants and messengers of God. Because they "always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven" they are the "mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word".189 330 As purely spiritual creatures angels have intelligence and will: they are personal and immortal creatures, surpassing in perfection all visible creatures, as the splendor of their glory bears witness.190 Christ "with all his angels" 331 Christ is the center of the angelic world. They are his angels: "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him. . "191 They belong to him because they were created through and for him: "for in him all things were created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities - all things were created through him and for him."192 They belong to him still more because he has made them messengers of his saving plan: "Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation?"193 332 Angels have been present since creation and throughout the history of salvation, announcing this salvation from afar or near and serving the accomplishment of the divine plan: they closed the earthly paradise; protected Lot; saved Hagar and her child; stayed Abraham's hand; communicated the law by their ministry; led the People of God; announced births and callings; and assisted the prophets, just to cite a few examples.194 Finally, the angel Gabriel announced the birth of the Precursor and that of Jesus himself.195 333 From the Incarnation to the Ascension, the life of the Word incarnate is surrounded by the adoration and service of angels. When God "brings the firstborn into the world, he says: 'Let all God's angels worship him.'"196 Their song of praise at the birth of Christ has not ceased resounding in the Church's praise: "Glory to God in the highest!"197 They protect Jesus in his infancy, serve him in the desert, strengthen him in his agony in the garden, when he could have been saved by them from the hands of his enemies as Israel had been.198 Again, it is the angels who "evangelize" by proclaiming the Good News of Christ's Incarnation and Resurrection.199 They will be present at Christ's return, which they will announce, to serve at his judgement.200 The angels in the life of the Church 334 In the meantime, the whole life of the Church benefits from the mysterious and powerful help of angels.201 335 In her liturgy, the Church joins with the angels to adore the thrice-holy God. She invokes their assistance (in the funeral liturgy's In Paradisum deducant te angeli. . .["May the angels lead you into Paradise. . ."]). Moreover, in the "Cherubic Hymn" of the Byzantine Liturgy, she celebrates the memory of certain angels more particularly (St. Michael, St. Gabriel, St. Raphael, and the guardian angels). 336 From its beginning until death, human life is surrounded by their watchful care and intercession.202 "Beside each believer stands an angel as protector and shepherd leading him to life."203 Already here on earth the Christian life shares by faith in the blessed company of angels and men united in God. II. THE VISIBLE WORLD 337 God himself created the visible world in all its richness, diversity and order. Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine "work", concluded by the "rest" of the seventh day.204 On the subject of creation, the sacred text teaches the truths revealed by God for our salvation,205 permitting us to "recognize the inner nature, the value and the ordering of the whole of creation to the praise of God."206 338 Nothing exists that does not owe its existence to God the Creator. The world began when God's word drew it out of nothingness; all existent beings, all of nature, and all human history are rooted in this primordial event, the very genesis by which the world was constituted and time begun.207 339 Each creature possesses its own particular goodness and perfection. For each one of the works of the "six days" it is said: "And God saw that it was good." "By the very nature of creation, material being is endowed with its own stability, truth and excellence, its own order and laws."208 Each of the various creatures, willed in its own being, reflects in its own way a ray of God's infinite wisdom and goodness. Man must therefore respect the particular goodness of every creature, to avoid any disordered use of things which would be in contempt of the Creator and would bring disastrous consequences for human beings and their environment. 340 God wills the interdependence of creatures. The sun and the moon, the cedar and the little flower, the eagle and the sparrow: the spectacle of their countless diversities and inequalities tells us that no creature is self- sufficient. Creatures exist only in dependence on each other, to complete each other, in the service of each other. 341 The beauty of the universe: The order and harmony of the created world results from the diversity of beings and from the relationships which exist among them. Man discovers them progressively as the laws of nature. They call forth the admiration of scholars. The beauty of creation reflects the infinite beauty of the Creator and ought to inspire the respect and submission of man's intellect and will. 342 The hierarchy of creatures is expressed by the order of the "six days", from the less perfect to the more perfect. God loves all his creatures209 and takes care of each one, even the sparrow. Nevertheless, Jesus said: "You are of more value than many sparrows", or again: "Of how much more value is a man than a sheep!"210 343 Man is the summit of the Creator's work, as the inspired account expresses by clearly distinguishing the creation of man from that of the other creatures.211 344 There is a solidarity among all creatures arising from the fact that all have the same Creator and are all ordered to his glory: May you be praised, O Lord, in all your creatures, especially brother sun, by whom you give us light for the day; he is beautiful, radiating great splendor, and offering us a symbol of you, the Most High. . . May you be praised, my Lord, for sister water, who is very useful and humble, precious and chaste. . . May you be praised, my Lord, for sister earth, our mother, who bears and feeds us, and produces the variety of fruits and dappled flowers and grasses. . . Praise and bless my Lord, give thanks and serve him in all humility.212 345 The sabbath - the end of the work of the six days. The sacred text says that "on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done", that the "heavens and the earth were finished", and that God "rested" on this day and sanctified and blessed it.213 These inspired words are rich in profitable instruction: 346 In creation God laid a foundation and established laws that remain firm, on which the believer can rely with confidence, for they are the sign and pledge of the unshakeable faithfulness of God's covenant.214 For his part man must remain faithful to this foundation, and respect the laws which the Creator has written into it. 347 Creation was fashioned with a view to the sabbath and therefore for the worship and adoration of God. Worship is inscribed in the order of creation.215 As the rule of St. Benedict says, nothing should take precedence over "the work of God", that is, solemn worship.216 This indicates the right order of human concerns. 348 The sabbath is at the heart of Israel's law. To keep the commandments is to correspond to the wisdom and the will of God as expressed in his work of creation. 349 The eighth day. But for us a new day has dawned: the day of Christ's Resurrection. The seventh day completes the first creation. The eighth day begins the new creation. Thus, the work of creation culminates in the greater work of redemption. The first creation finds its meaning and its summit in the new creation in Christ, the splendor of which surpasses that of the first creation.217 IN BRIEF 350 Angels are spiritual creatures who glorify God without ceasing and who serve his saving plans for other creatures: "The angels work together for the benefit of us all" (St. Thomas Aquinas, STh I, 114, 3, ad 3). 351 The angels surround Christ their Lord. They serve him especially in the accomplishment of his saving mission to men. 352 The Church venerates the angels who help her on her earthly pilgrimage and protect every human being. 353 God willed the diversity of his creatures and their own particular goodness, their interdependence and their order. He destined all material creatures for the good of the human race. Man, and through him all creation, is destined for the glory of God. 354 Respect for laws inscribed in creation and the relations which derive from the nature of things is a principle of wisdom and a foundation for morality. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
here is a snippet from the Catholic Catechism on fallen angels . I put the actual use of the word demon in bold. I forgot to give you the other link on angels, in my previous reply. that is here: http ://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p5.htm. These are ony excerpts. 391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy.266 Scripture and the Church's Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called "Satan" or the "devil".267 The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing."268 392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels.269 This "fall" consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter's words to our first parents: "You will be like God."270 The devil "has sinned from the beginning"; he is "a liar and the father of lies".271 393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels' sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."272 394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls "a murderer from the beginning", who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father.273 "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil."274 In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God. 395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God's reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but "we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him."275 ....IN BRIEF 413 "God did not make death, and he does not delight in the death of the living. . . It was through the devil's envy that death entered the world" (Wis 1:13; 2:24). 414 Satan or the devil and the other demons are fallen angels who have freely refused to serve God and his plan. Their choice against God is definitive. They try to associate man in their revolt against God. 415 "Although set by God in a state of rectitude man, enticed by the evil one, abused his freedom at the very start of history. He lifted himself up against God, and sought to attain his goal apart from him" (GS 13 § 1). 416 By his sin Adam, as the first man, lost the original holiness and justice he had received from God, not only for himself but for all human beings. 417 Adam and Eve transmitted to their descendants human nature wounded by their own first sin and hence deprived of original holiness and justice; this deprivation is called "original sin". 418 As a result of original sin, human nature is weakened in its powers, subject to ignorance, suffering and the domination of death, and inclined to sin (this inclination is called "concupiscence"). 419 "We therefore hold, with the Council of Trent, that original sin is transmitted with human nature, "by propagation, not by imitation" and that it is. . . 'proper to each'" (Paul VI, CPG § 16). 420 The victory that Christ won over sin has given us greater blessings than those which sin had taken from us: "where sin increased, grace abounded all the more" (Rom 5:20). 421 Christians believe that "the world has been established and kept in being by the Creator's love; has fallen into slavery to sin but has been set free by Christ, crucified and risen to break the power of the evil one. . ." (GS 2 § 2). "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
also, if you notivce, whenever you or anyone else asks me aa question about my religion, I don't 'theorize' or talk out of my ass or make up some argument, or argue on the internet. I am not an expert, nor do I pretend to be. I have an authority to refer to. the church is that authority, established over 2000 years ago. I do not need to go to protestant pastor bob' on any corner, USA, who got his (non) credentials out of a cracker jack box and who makes up various theories on thousands of issues as he goes along. People can go to prominent libertarian Tom Woods for much more on all this. he has a great series (which is actually from his book titled HOW THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BUILT WESTERN CIVILIZATION "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
I didn't say that any entity not of this world was a reptilian demon. what I said was, IF these alleged space aliens roaming around who look repltilian are real, then they very well could be demons. aka devils. devils are simply fallen angels, who rebelled against God an were cast into hell. they are allowed some power and spend it tempting people and causing havoc in this world. to try to drag souls into hell. Here is a section from the Catechism on angels: (I will post a separate reply on demons (fallen angels). I think you missed my point. What I was trying to say was that creatures or entities which exist beyond our own world are by nature "extraterrestrial". You call can call these creatures whatever you wish, be it an angel, a demon, or an alien. They all are extraterrestrial. In terms of the latter, people have reported reptilian ones and little greys, sure, but there are ALSO reports of Nordic appearing blondes who are are ALSO extraterrestrial. Who's to say that at least SOME of those aliens aren't what primitive man called "angels" or even "gods".. Went to Catholic school ran by nuns up through 7th grade and went to church every weekend, so I know a bit about Catholic teachings. However, at a young age I opened my mind to things beyond what the church taught. I think you missed my point. What I was trying to say was that creatures or entities which exist beyond our own world are by nature "extraterrestrial". You call can call these creatures whatever you wish, be it an angel, a demon, or an alien. They all are extraterrestrial. In terms of the latter, people have reported reptilian ones and little greys, sure, but there are ALSO reports of Nordic appearing blondes who are are ALSO extraterrestrial. Who's to say that at least SOME of those aliens aren't what primitive man called "angels" or even "gods".. sure, I suppose they could be angels (messengers) of God. they do exist. I know one fallen-away catholic who is obsessed on flowery 'angel books'. she likes to acknowledge that there is a 'spiritual realm' and all these entertaining and comforting angel books have taken the place of actual hard-truth religion for her. (many of these 'angels' authors appear on oprah and the talk show circuit, particularly years ago.) sad case. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
to be clear I do believe in angels and have at least a few experiences where I believe my guardian angel literally helped me, perhaps saved my life or prevented me from serious injury. one time, this guy lured me into a situation and physical location in a parking lot where I suddenly found myself surrounded by three very shady thugs in what I determined later was an attempted robbery. I later felt very foolish for believing this guy's story for help, because I'm not usually the type to fall for b.s. I backed away from them and they didn't try anything, which was very strange, and opposite of why they would have lured me into the trap in the first place. I believe it was my angel(s) who prevented the attack. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
However, at a young age I opened my mind to things beyond what the church taught. I would consider questioning in great detail, the sources of material that you read and watched when you 'opened your mind', which led you to reject your faith. I can guarantee that they are/were not good sources. They have a mission for you, and for the world, and its not a good one,... and you were one of the victims of their propaganda. But there is still time to return. I do not say this to be condescending. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
I would suggest you do the same. Keep in mind that the early church tortured people to death in order to convince the "flock" that they HAD to obey, or else. And also keep in mind that people wrote the bible, not some angel. What it comes down to is that I don't believe in religion, instead I believe in God, one which exist yet is beyond the understanding of humans, and most certainly did not have his "chosen people" commit the many horrific deeds described in a book claimed to have been written by him.
you should know that Catholics know that the bible wasn't 'written by angels.' and that yes it was written by men, but we believe it is the inspired word of God. furthermore I don't know why you even brought up the bible, since it is not the foundation of the church. quite the contrary, the church GAVE us the bible. The church existed prior to it. "Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestEvery time I ask some Catholic or funnymentalist parent whether they use birth control, they clam up. They're certainly not having kids like the Hasidim -- that would be a heroic level of self-restraint over decades!?!
#29. To: Artisan (#28)
#30. To: NeoconsNailed (#29)
Whom did GHWB successfully promote contraception to -- Africa?
You'd disagree with that in other words?
And you think white power people shouldn't complain about the invaders' prolificity, is that it?
#31. To: Artisan (#30)
#32. To: NeoconsNailed (#31)
So you're not going to agree with Bush about anything, even if he's right, and you think it's stupid to be alarmed by "immigrants" breeding like rabbits? Just trying to get the picture.
good Catholics have to be using lots of birth control :-)
#33. To: Artisan (#32)
Bush is not right . since he is a Satanist, he by definition can not be right.
#34. To: Artisan (#32)
#35. To: Artisan (#27)
well actually, justifying widespread legal abortion with an extremely rare 'hypothetical' of women who get pregnant from rape does not hold water, in my opinion.
#36. To: NeoconsNailed (#14)
Trump is a liar and enthusiastic new world orderly at such times. I'm back to having no use for him at all as long as dreck like Gingrich and Christie are under consideration as VP.
#37. To: HOUNDDAWG (#36)
#38. To: NeoconsNailed (#33)
98% of all-American Catholic wives are damning themselves to 500 years in purgatory by not using the rithm method :-3
#39. To: Lod (#34)
#40. To: HOUNDDAWG (#35)
and nothing good can come from religious Jihadists in control of our country.
#41. To: Artisan (#38)
#42. To: HOUNDDAWG (#36)
#43. To: Lod (#37)
Three I wanted: Ross Perot, Ron Paul, and now Trump. I hope that my track record improves this time.
#44. To: Artisan (#40)
I will spare you the photos of aborted babies which clearly show it is an unjust killing, a grisly murder. I do not go by state law, especially California law. or U.S. law. "Thou shalt not kill" says it all.
#45. To: NeoconsNailed (#42)
Brother, I'll take pings in syncin' or out of syncin'! I'll search a topic here and add something regardless of the 4um page's age. Consider it maximizing the site's usefulness as an ever growing resource.
#46. To: Artisan (#38)
the lie that satan and hell does not exist is the biggest lie people fall for. It is very sad.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination 
#47. To: HOUNDDAWG (#45)
#48. To: FormerLurker (#46)
Where is heaven, and where is hell?
#49. To: Artisan (#48)
Hebrews 9:27, 28 keeps it pretty simple for me -
#50. To: Artisan (#48)
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#51. To: FormerLurker (#50)
For all we truly know, hell could be here on earth, it could be purgatory, or it could even be heaven for some people. Or it could be something else entirely.
#52. To: FormerLurker (#50)
#53. To: FormerLurker (#50)
I didn't really see any explanation for WHERE either heaven or hell are, did you?
Do you believe there are such things as extraterrestrials?
#54. To: Artisan (#53)
I believe that if they exist as some claim, they might just be demons. which is why they would appear reptilian (snake like,) but all in all, I'm not worried about it., & not very interested in the topic.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#55. To: Artisan (#53)
That is why I view this life as a grand test. serious stuff. the spiritual battle in the world is between God and satan; it is a battle literally for souls.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#56. To: FormerLurker (#55)
#57. To: Lod (#56)
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#58. To: FormerLurker (#54)
>>I believe that if they exist as some claim, they might just be demons. which is why they would appear reptilian (snake like,) but all in all, I'm not worried about it., & not very interested in the topic.
#59. To: FormerLurker (#54)
II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS http ://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm
#60. To: FormerLurker (#54)
#61. To: Artisan (#58)
that is a ridiculous question, although I maybe I should assume that you aren't familiar with the basic structure of Christian teaching, which I find very difficult (impossible) to believe.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#62. To: Artisan (#60)
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#63. To: FormerLurker (#61)
#64. To: FormerLurker (#61)
#65. To: FormerLurker (#62)
Went to Catholic school ran by nuns up through 7th grade and went to church every weekend, so I know a bit about Catholic teachings.
#66. To: Artisan (#65)
I would consider questioning in great detail, the sources of material that you read and watched when you 'opened your mind', which led you to reject your faith.
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#67. To: Artisan (#65)
"After tomorrow those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.” – LBJ to his mistress Madeleine Brown on the eve of JFK assassination
#68. To: FormerLurker (#66)
[See According to Scripture ]
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