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Science/Tech
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Title: How To Charge Electric Cars Fast Like Gas Pump.
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://engforum.pravda.ru/index.php ... ctric-cars-fast-like-gas-pump/
Published: Aug 11, 2016
Author: Started by RobertD
Post Date: 2016-08-11 02:43:28 by Tatarewicz
Keywords: None
Views: 90
Comments: 1

PMF...

I was considering the charging of electric cars. To be useful, they must be rechargeable quickly, this two hours and eight hours is simply unacceptable.

Solution is to have supercaps charge in parallel, and discharge in series.

A multitude of small supercaps connected through a network that switches from serial to parallel. Serial for driving and power delivery, parallel for charging. Being small caps, they would all charge instantly through the parallel network, then switch to serial/parallel to deliver power.

I think this way, you can stop at a charge station and recharge your Tesla for another 300km in about thirty seconds. Same as with gasoline. And caps are very light.


Can you use supercaps to power electric vehicles? Bill Schweber -March 10, 2015

Supercapacitors (also called ultracapacitors) are a relatively recent fundamental technology innovation for passive devices, with the first ones coming to market in the 1970s with widespread use by the early 1990's. Prior to their development, the "conventional wisdom" and textbook view that even a one-farad capacitor was impractical for real designs, as it would be the size of a desk. Yet today, the supercap is a standard component in the engineer's bill of materials (BOM) kit.

These capacitors have both advantages and disadvantages compared to rechargeable batteries. They typically can store 10 to 100 times more energy per unit volume or unit mass than standard electrolytic capacitors but have only about 1/10 the energy density of batteries (and thus are physically larger for a given amount of energy); can be charged and discharged more quickly than batteries; and tolerate many more charge/discharge cycles than rechargeable batteries. In many designs they replace or complement batteries for short- or long-term backup and operation.

So what about using them in electric vehicles (EVs) and hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs), instead of the battery packs? So far, none of the commercially available EVs and HEVs use them, as far as I can tell. I'm not a battery expert, but I suspect it is a combination of factors: size, cost, perhaps power-management issues, difficulties in using them in series and parallel combinations, failure-mode issues, and other factors. I am sure the technical experts at EV/HEV vendors have considered them and decided they don’t make sense, at least at this time.

But that hasn't stopped people from speculating, and this speculation can make it all sound so easy. I recently saw that NASA Tech Briefs gave an honorable mention to an idea – and I emphasize the word "idea" – of using an array of one type of supercap for energy storage in an EV with a 3000-mile (approximately 4800 km) range, see here .

Wow, that's impressive…until you realize that this idea is entirely speculative. The detailed contest entry freely uses words like "revolutionary," "easy," and "standard" in the discussion of a large array of multi-layer ceramic capacitors (MLCCs) with dielectric constant (the ratio of the permittivity of a substance to the permittivity of free space) of 300 million.

Using a huge array of MLCCs in an EV: great idea, or one that will be defeated by the reality of implementation? (from Tech Briefs)

I'm not saying that such a design isn't possible; we know that when it comes to technology advances, you should "never say never". Nonetheless, the issues associated with such a dense power pack in an EV go beyond the storage component itself. The author proposes an array of 12,000 MLCCs of 5.5 F each, for a total of 66,000 F.

That's an amazingly high energy density and capacity, which bring in major issues of safety and actual system design. How do you reliably connect all these MLCCs? What happens when one or more MLCC fails open, or shorts internally? How do you deal with the large current flows and high voltages into and out of such a dense package?

Talk to any engineer who has worked with high-energy battery packs ranging from relatively smaller ones used in laptops to larger ones in EVs, and you'll hear that the reality is that the battery/supercap itself is only part of the design and manufacturing challenge. There are many other issues such as internal interconnects; external connections; charge/discharge management; current, voltage, and thermal monitoring; and overall safety monitoring and protection. While it is easy to say that those are all manageable issues that can be easily overcome (a project manager I worked for casually declared these peripheral functions to be "mere details"), these are actually all very difficult problems, especially in a high-volume, manufacturing-oriented product.

We often hear reports about the next big thing in batteries (or supercaps) promising five or even ten times the density of today's best units. Yet most batter progress over the past decades has been through modest, incremental improvements adding onto each other, rather than the one big breakthrough. A balanced and perceptive article "Tech World Vexed by Slow Progress on Batteries " in The Wall Street Journal (of all places) pointed out that the time and effort to get a new battery enhancement to the mass market is about ten years, and many promising advances in the lab don’t make it to market adoption due to manufacturing, material, and functional issues, even if the underlying technology is sound.

Will an array of MLCCs be the next big thing for EVs? I'll admit it: I don’t know. I do know that when someone says it will be easy, and yet has never actually built and tested an actual unit, it's a good idea to be skeptical.

www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/power-points/4438854/Can-you-use-supercaps-to-power-electric-vehicles-

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#1. To: All (#0)

Zharkov: The idea was patented around 50 years ago by an inventor who used the idea to power geiger counters with a set of low voltage batteries and a hand crank to charge capacitors in parallel and discharge them in series. It only works where current drain is relatively low.

To power a car, the current drain is huge, and capacitors just do not store enough energy. Some kind of battery is necessary to generate enough power for long trips. Nickel Hydride batteries can be quickly charged with very high current but they tend to overheat, and that limits their lifespan.

Magoo

Good information Zharkov. Mobile applications still need some advanced technology to make it truly competitive.

One idea from years back used battery power to go up a grade and wheel mounted dynamo's to charge the battery on the downgrade, the charging dynamo's produce a variable braking effect. The more current the dynamo produced the more it resisted being turned, spun. Probably a foot operated variable resistor controlled field voltage which in turn regulated dynamo output.

Zharkov... The original electric car batteries sold with the first electric cars were Nickel-Iron cells (called "Edison Cells") that were so well built that some are still in use today, well over 100 years of service. They can be bought in the US now, but are expensive. Maintenance is relatively simple and involves changing their electrolyte fluid every few years. The batteries themselves are almost indestructable in normal use, and should be easy to recycle when they require new parts. Not having one myself, I can't say how long it takes to recharge them, but I suspect it would be about the same as other storage batteries.

Maybe a battery of Edison Cells coupled with solar panels would do the job for short trips, but there is still a problem with long trips of say 1200 miles or so. Batteries just can't go that far yet. Somewhere around 250 miles is the maximum electric car range for today's battery technology. I think it will take entirely new technology to power electric cars, but when that happens, the most polluted cities in the world will eventually become very desirable places to live. Electric cars are absolutely the future of transportation.

RobertD said:

... caps can be used for high power applications and they are.

You can replace your battery with a cap pack and they work great.

They weren't before because they didn't have enough capacity. But current super capacitors can carry up to 6000Farads (highest rated available at digikey). Put in an array, they can deliver plenty of power for long range. I'll try to calculate how far you can go on a charge with say

An array of smaller caps, arranged to use the space currently of the size of the battery in e-cars. Say 4'x4'x6" . =15000"cubes. Each cap is 3/4"x1-1/2" I can fit over 12,000 of them in there. Energy = ½*C*V², that's a total of over 2 million joules of energy. How far/fast can I go with that? I'll have to figure out how much energy I need to go a mile in a Tesla. See how many miles I get out of 2M joules.

The point is that if we can recharge in 2 minutes, we can charge along the way much faster, and that makes it attractive.

Electricity is available everywhere.

Continuing my research, the Nissan Leaf uses 0.68 megajoules per kilometre (MJ/km) or 680000J/km

2M joules / 680000 = = 3km. Not enough.

To reach 300km, I have to increase the capacitance x 100, which is 4700F but they are bigger.

Zharkov... Capacitors can be used to power things that require either low current, or brief impulse power such as a laser or geiger counter tube, maybe some work for hand crank radios for awhile, but cars are not the kind of drain that a capacitor could power with today's technology, unless you are talking about moving the car across the street. Plus the fact that capacitors will drain their charge even without use, which means they could go dead just when you need to go somewhere.

Batteries can provide sustained current drain without losing so much voltage, unlike capacitors which discharge almost instantly and have huge voltage drops while the discharge continues.

If it was practical to power a car with capacitors alone, it would have been done already.

Unless you are talking about toy cars, capacitors are not going to get you very far.

post #12] Zharkov

One idea I would like to see developed is the use of solar power to break water down into hydrogen and oxygen, feeding the hydrogen into a normal automotive engine. The barrier seems to be the rate of conversion of water into gases, but maybe that could be increased enough with future technology. The end product of that combustion would be harmless, and actually provide extra oxygen to densly populated cities.

Having done the conversion myself as a child using inverted test tubes to capture the gases, I know that adding a conducting salt to the water will increase the speed of gas conversion, as will adding additional electrodes for current flow. How practical it might be is unknown, as it might use far more water than a car could carry in order to go a long distance. The interesting thing is that this kind of system could convert polluted water into pure water vapor as exhaust. It might slowly help reduce the amount of airborne radiation from reactor fires, remove air particulate matter, etc.

Tatarewicz  posted on  2016-08-12   1:58:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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