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Title: Irving: I Erred When I Said There Were No Gas Chambers At Auschwitz
Source:
www.haaretz.com
URL Source: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/684666.html
Published: Feb 20, 2006
Author: By Amiram Barket
Post Date: 2006-02-20 07:37:15 by Mind_Virus
Keywords: Auschwitz, Chambers, Irving:
Views: 162
Comments: 35
Last update - 13:32 20/02/2006 Irving: I Erred When I Said There Were No Gas Chambers At Auschwitz By Amiram Barket, Haaretz Correspondent and AP VIENNA, Austria - Right-wing British historian David Irving pleaded guilty to criminal charges of denying the Holocaust and conceded he erred in contending there were no Nazi gas chambers at Auschwitz as his trial opened Monday in Vienna. Irving, 67, told reporters he now acknowledges that the Nazis systematically slaughtered Jews during World War II. "History is like a constantly changing tree," he said as an eight-member jury and a panel of three judges prepared to hear charges that could put him behind bars for up to 10 years. Irving, handcuffed and wearing a navy blue suit, arrived at the court carrying a copy of one of his most controversial books - "Hitler's War," which challenges the extent of the Holocaust. "I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz," Irving told the court, speaking in German. But he insisted he never wrote a book about the Holocaust, which he called "just a fragment of my area of interest." "In no way did I deny the killings of millions of people by the Nazis," Irving testified. Earlier, he told journalists he considered it "ridiculous" that he was standing trial for remarks made 17 years ago. He has been in custody since his arrest in November on charges stemming from two speeches he gave in Austria in 1989 in which he was accused of denying the Nazis' extermination of 6 million Jews. The state attorney's office said the 1989 remarks were "a dangerous violation of freedom of speech." A verdict was expected later Monday, with a conviction almost certain because of Irving's guilty plea. In interviews with the British media ahead of the trial, Irving and his Austrian lawyer said they did not believe they would win the case. The lawyer, Elmar Kresbach, has claimed recently that Irving had changed his views back in 1992 after he uncovered a radio transmission containing a message to Adolf Eichmann about the extermination of a million Jews at the Treblinka death camp. Experts cast doubt on the sincerity of these claims. Prof. Dina Porat, head of Tel Aviv University's Institute for the Study of Contemporary Anti-Semitism and Racism, told Haaretz Sunday that Irving's purported repentence is motivated by his fear of a verdict that could amount to 10 years' imprisonment. "It is not possible that Irving changed his mind in 1992 without saying anything about it in the course of the libel trial he initiated in 2000," Porat said. Irving's trial comes amid new - and fierce - debate over freedom of expression in Europe, where the printing and reprinting of unflattering cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad has triggered violent protests worldwide. Irving had tried to win his provisional release on $24,000 bail, but a Vienna court refused, saying it considered him a flight risk. His lawyer, Elmar Kresbach, said last month the controversial Third Reich historian was getting up to 300 pieces of fan mail a week from supporters around the world, and that while in detention he was writing his memoirs under the working title "Irving's War." Irving was arrested November 11 in the southern Austrian province of Styria on a warrant issued in 1989. He was charged under a federal law that makes it a crime to publicly diminish, deny or justify the Holocaust. Within two weeks of his arrest, Irving asserted through his lawyer that he had come to acknowledge the existence of Nazi-era gas chambers. In the past, however, he has claimed that Adolf Hitler knew little if anything about the Holocaust, and has been quoted as saying there was "not one shred of evidence" the Nazis carried out their "Final Solution" to exterminate the Jewish population on such a massive scale. Vienna's national court, where the trial is being held, ordered the balcony gallery closed to prevent projectiles from being thrown down at the bench, the newspaper Die Presse reported Sunday. It quoted officials as saying they were bracing for Irving's supporters to give him the Nazi salute or shout out pro-Hitler slogans during the trial, which will continue into Tuesday if a verdict is not reached on Monday. Irving is the author of nearly 30 books, and has contended most of those who died at concentration camps such as Auschwitz succumbed to diseases such as typhus rather than execution. In 2000, Irving sued American Holocaust scholar Deborah Lipstadt for libel in a British court, but lost. The presiding judge in that case, Charles Gray, wrote that Irving was "an active Holocaust denier ... anti-Semitic and racist." Irving has had numerous run-ins with the law over the years. In 1992, a judge in Germany fined him the equivalent of $6,000 for publicly insisting the Nazi gas chambers at Auschwitz were a hoax.
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#1. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
Bizarre...
Now how is what Irving said a violation of free speech ??? Instead of 1989 this
sound like 1984. And what is even more bizarre about this case that the backdrop
is the mohammed cartoons.. which Jyllands-Posten etc are saying is a free
speech issue.. isnt this just a great world ??
Anything Irving says while held hostage has to be taken in that light. He's being held under duress, and is likely to say things to appease his kidnappers.
Effectively Irving is being threatened with imprisonment for the rest of his life. It's the functional equivalent of having a gun held to his head. What he says now is indeed under duress and worthless.
You can't win. You can't break even. You can't get out of the game.
You know what came to mind when I read this? RECANT! I think it's also worth noting that Torquemada was born a Jew...and probably another Crypto, with his Talmud well hidden... Genetical behaviors are difficult things to escape.
Hmm then why did Torquemada work to destroy the Marranos as head of the Spanish Inquistion?
Check. The "Holocaust" is our new Credo. If we don't recite it exactly as we're catechized, we face vilification, torture, imprisonment, ruin, death.
You can't win. You can't break even. You can't get out of the game.
What doesnt make sense to me is this.. theyve already had him in court..he lost that case which would seem as if then they've shown that he is wrong.. Although that was in another country, why this again? It would seem to me that he's been made a non issue?
The "Holocaust" industry isn't interested in winning debates---it wants to cut off debate and crush dissidents. Obviously they weren't contend with the London verdict, because Irving continued to hold beliefs they regard as heretical. They wanted him to face criminal charges and imprisonment, and force a public recantation of his heresy, pour encourager les autres.
You can't win. You can't break even. You can't get out of the game.
They are creating a whole new generation of antisemites with this overkill. Nothing like injustice and persecution to fan the flames. Freedom of speech is too entrenched in the West for anyone to try infringing on it now. This will backfire on the holocaust industry, if it hasn't already. The best defense is a good offense. I recommend some serious works on all the holocausts of the 20th century. We'll see who has the biggest pile of innocent corpses and we'll see who the perpetrators were. Start with Katyn Forest, where in 1943, the Soviets massacred 4,000 to 5,000 Polish officers. Once attributed to the Nazis, the truth found its way out. http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/winter99-00/art6.html But we must not stop there, that's just an appetizer, an example of a known coverup/denial, by whom and for whom. This is nothing compared to the other atrocities committed by the Bolsheviks. On this forum we have listed and discussed a few other lesser known 20th century holocausts, that are historical fact but that were never made into movies or television mini-series. Nor have any of the victims collected reparations, nor will they ever. We should expose more of these, or get more in-depth information of the holocausts we've talked about.
"War is a way of shattering to pieces...materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses... too intelligent." ~George Orwell
You will learn to love Big Brother. Now this guy may well be an ass, I know nothing about him, but to not be able to express your opinion in the allegedly free countries of Europe about historic events, nor to question existing theories or be allowed to do research, is astounding. It's a wonder to me that the neocons over here have not given 9/11 the same status. Doesn't anyone over there see the cognitive dissonance of charging Irving with Thought Crime?
Excellent. Hey they did it to Galileo, too...
Being on the internet and its forums has made me realize that there aren't as many people who really believe in freedom of expression as you might think, even given how much our polity, our culture, and our self-image pays lip service to it. The attitude of many if not most is summed up in a title of a book by (consistent) civil libertarian Nat Hentoff: "'Free Speech' for me, but not for thee!" Freedom of speech, Orwell wrote, means "telling people what they don't want to hear," and since nowadays that clashes with the new "super-right" to "not be offended" (i.e., not be told what you don't want to hear), freedom of expression may simply become what I'll call a "façade freedom"---one that is a p.r. gimmick designed to make the polity that formally grants it look good but never meant to be exercised in full. Sort of like all the "rights" and "freedoms" in the "Stalin Constitution" of 1936: hailed in its day as the "most democratic" ever written, even as Stalin was accelerating the tempo of the Great Terror.
You can't win. You can't break even. You can't get out of the game.
One of them thar Potemkin freedoms.
Or in Germany being the top country prosecuting Though Crime?
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
yes its all true......the jew soap....the jewskin lampshades....the jewish shrunken heads.....the fields srung gysers of blood....the germans were all cannibals...just like in the movie the 13th warrior....its all true...
heh heh heh....I guess they've had a long time to practice.
Welcome to the world of "Thought Crimes."
That's just what I said here: To: Mind_Virus (#0) I didn't read the entire article because my reaction to the first couple of paragraphs is this. This is Minority Report--iow, thought crime philosophy pure and simple. Not only that, but it is antithetical to what America was intended to be.
Holocaust? What holocaust? Jews are more powerful than they've ever been.
Feneration is slow death of community and culture.
Better than my "façade freedoms." On another note, I was reading "Badeye" and his sneering defense of the Irving sentence on that other forum, and I suddenly realized where his "handle" came from: the Biblical term "evil eye" (or, "bad eye" in Hebrew, "bad" in the sense of "malicious"), the "jinx" bestowed by an envious gaze. Makes sense to me ([sheepishly] don't tell me everybody else has figured that out...).
You can't win. You can't break even. You can't get out of the game.
lot of mediterranean cultures believe in the bad eye - the italians call it malocchio (literally "bad eye"). i think even my scottish ancestors believed in some kind of hex you could put on people by looking at them. or maybe he's just a dumb old bastard with a blind eye :)
and a brain seriously under-developed for handling anything as complicated as bottle rockets.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
I kind of liked the idea that he was implicitly acknowledging in his choice of screen name his own maliciousness. (grin)
You can't win. You can't break even. You can't get out of the game.
People like that believe maliciousness is a virtue.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs
It's only a matter of time, until Thought Crimes are a fact of American life - the "Masters of Corruption" are that clever. We already have "Hate Crimes;" emotional crimes.
have y'all seen this? apparently he's got two badeyes. ;)
God is always good! From Times Online: Backlash at jailing of historian who denied Holocaust DAVID IRVING, the far-right British historian, sat stunned and open-mouthed yesterday when an Austrian court found him guilty of denying the Holocaust and sentenced him to three years in jail. “I’m very shocked and I’m going to appeal,” Irving, 67, said as he was bundled out of the Vienna courtroom by armed anti-riot police. From the public gallery a British supporter shouted “Stay strong, David”, before he too was led away. But in Britain there was dismay at a verdict that could turn Irving into a right-wing martyr. Irving had pleaded guilty to denying the Holocaust in two speeches in Austria in 1989. He was arrested when he re-entered the country, where it is a crime to deny the Holocaust, last November, and had been in custody since. During his seven-hour trial yesterday Irving sought to convince the jury that he had changed his mind and now acknowledged the murder of six million Jews by the Nazis. “I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz,” he told the court. But the judge and jury were unswayed. One hundred and fifty-eight people have been convicted of Holocaust denial in Austria between 1999 and 2004, but only a handful other than Irving have been imprisoned. Lord Janner, chairman of the Holocaust Educational Trust, was pleased by the conviction. He said: “It sends a clear message to the world that we must not tolerate the denial of the mass murderers of the Holocaust. The Nazis tried to wipe out an entire people . . . We must learn the lessons of the past to build a decent society for the future.” The verdict came amid a furious debate in Europe over freedom of expression, with many defending the media’s right to publish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed. The Arabic television station al-Jazeera was there to broadcast the verdict to its Islamic audience. In Britain Nick Griffin, the leader of the British National Party, was recently acquitted of making speeches inciting racial hatred. Abu Hamza, the radical Islamic cleric, was last week sentenced to seven years in prison for inciting racial hatred and soliciting murder. In Britain there was some alarm at the severity of the sentence. “Anyone who denies the Holocaust is off their rocker,” Gerald Howarth, the Tory MP for Aldershot, said. “But for goodness sake, to send a man to prison for three years for something he said 16 years ago and has since changed his view — what are we coming to?” Anthony Beevor, the military historian, said: “However nauseating, these people should be confronted in debate rather than chucked into jail and turned into martyrs.” The verdict will end for good the career of a man banned from a dozen countries from Canada to South Africa for belittling the murder of the Jews and glorifying Hitler. In 2000 Irving was forced into bankruptcy when he unsuccessfully sued Deborah Lipstadt, an American academic who had called him a Holocaust denier. He was ordered to pay £3 million in legal costs and had to sell his Mayfair home. She said: “He should have been met by the sound of one hand clapping. The one thing he deserves, he really deserves, is obscurity.”
"Jews" will regret the day they sided with Satan, all who do eventually regret it. It's something how Satan has distracted the world and many Christians with two of his groups fighting each other ("Jews" and Muslims) while his plan of a real Holocaust against the Christians is moving into its final stages.
God is always good! Take a look at this article written by Hunter Thompson on 9/12/01.. and what he predicted:
(grin)
"Simon Wiesenthal Letter 20 13-Sep-1997 Jews killing Ukrainians in LvivIt is difficult to suggest a satisfactory reason for the prevalence of Jews in the Cheka. It may be that having suffered at the hand of the former Russian ... http://www.ukar.org/20lviv3.html " 40 million....not six....died at the hands of the cheka apparatus....most were orthodox Christians....White Russians Do I hear a wail? See any Museums?? Any deniers jailed?? Was it a 'hate crime'? No?? Why not? It's simple history.
Again...look to the non-spin derivation of NeoCon. You will find globalist marxist-leaning overrepresented Jewish makeup (Chertoff, Libby, Abramoff, Wolfowitz etc etc etc). If you ever see the origins, it's clear as a bell and quite predictable as to the future.
Again. Where are the Museums? There is not even an ADMISSION !! Much less a law against DENYING or DIMINISHING !! Egregious. Hypocrisy Solzhenitsyn Breaks Taboo: The Role Of Jews In Soviet-era Repression To explain the actions of the Kiev cheka [secret police] only by the fact that two thirds were Jews, is certainly incorrect." ...Yet he added: "But it is impossible to find the answer to the eternal question: who is to be blamed, who led us to our death? To explain the actions of the Kiev cheka [secret police] only by the fact that two thirds were Jews, is certainly incorrect." - Solzhenitsyn www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1033.htm
The state attorney's office said the 1989 remarks were "a
dangerous violation of freedom of speech."
#2. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
#3. To: Splitends, Zipporah (#2)
He's being held under duress, and is likely to say things to appease his kidnappers.
#4. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#3)
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#5. To: Zipporah (#4)
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#6. To: Eoghan (#5)
#7. To: Zipporah (#4)
You know what came to mind when I read this? RECANT!
#8. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#7)
#9. To: Zipporah (#8)
What doesnt make sense to me is this.. theyve already had him in court..he lost that case which would seem as if then they've shown that he is wrong.. Although that was in another country, why this again? It would seem to me that he's been made a non issue?
#10. To: Peetie Wheatstraw, mehitable, wbales, Eoghan, Zipporah, BTP Holdings, Elliott Jackalope, Diana (#9)
#11. To: Zipporah (#1)
#12. To: Zipporah (#4)
#13. To: mehitable (#11)
Doesn't anyone over there see the cognitive dissonance of charging Irving with Thought Crime?
#14. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#13)
#15. To: mehitable (#11)
Doesn't anyone over there see the cognitive dissonance of charging Irving with Thought Crime?
#16. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
?
#17. To: Dakmar (#15)
#18. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
#19. To: SKYDRIFTER (#18)
Welcome to the world of "Thought Crimes."
#20. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
#21. To: mehitable (#14)
One of them thar Potemkin freedoms.
#22. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#21)
#23. To: mehitable (#22)
or maybe he's just a dumb old bastard with a blind eye
#24. To: mehitable, Dakmar (#22)
#25. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#24)
#26. To: christine (#19)
#27. To: Peetie Wheatstraw, mehitable, Brer' (#24)
#28. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#29. To: Mind_Virus, ALL (#0)
From Roger Boyes in Vienna
#30. To: Zipporah (#1)
Now how is what Irving said a violation of free speech ??? Instead of 1989 this sound like 1984. And what is even more bizarre about this case that the backdrop is the mohammed cartoons.. which Jyllands-Posten etc are saying is a free speech issue.. isnt this just a great world ??
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#31. To: RickyJ (#30)
#32. To: christine (#27)
#33. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#9)
The "Holocaust" industry isn't interested in winning debates---it wants to cut off debate and crush dissidents.
#34. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#21)
On another note, I was reading "Badeye" and his sneering defense of the Irving sentence
#35. To: Zipporah (#31)
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