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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Making Islam Illegal -- Is It The West's Only Choice?
Source: www.renewamerica.us
URL Source: http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/huston/060219
Published: Feb 19, 2006
Author: Warner Todd Huston
Post Date: 2006-02-20 11:28:07 by Mind_Virus
Keywords: Illegal, Choice?, Making
Views: 1259
Comments: 108

Making Islam Illegal -- Is It The West's Only Choice?

Warner Todd Huston February 19, 2006

When President Bush gave his "axis of evil" speech he went out of his way to make the world understand that it isn't a war with Islam itself that we were joining — and I say joining because the war had been started by the Jihadists decades before. And, in observance to our Western principles, that must be the correct way to view our conflagration with radical Islam.

Let's face facts, it certainly is uncomfortable to a Westerner who has been brought up on tolerance, freedom of religion, and liberty to contemplate a war against an entire religion. But are we approaching a time when Western nations won't have a choice but to target Islam itself in certain ways to keep their own people safe. The best course of action is to make public displays of Islam and certain of its practices illegal in Western nations.

So, the question becomes are we at that time now? Are we fast approaching a time when Mosques will be closed and banned? Have we come to a time when Islamic literature is turned away from our borders? Have the childish and dangerous reactions of Muslims to this cartoon in a Danish newspaper proven that Islam cannot be trusted to be a vital, peaceful, and law-abiding segment of society?

It is looking like yes is the answer to these queries.

We are already approaching this today. In Ontario they have officially outlawed Muslim Sharia law, that law that uses religious precepts to enforce moral and society codes of conduct. And Muslim "family councils" have been stopped where local community groups may supplement Canadian law with their local custom.

Several members of the John Howard administration in Australia have spoken out against Islamic clashes with Western notions of law and societal comportment many times over the last few years.

Recently Howard himself said, "I do think there is this particular complication because there is a fragment which is utterly antagonistic to our kind of society, and that is a difficulty ... You can't find any equivalent in Italian, or Greek, or Lebanese, or Chinese or Baltic immigration to Australia. There is no equivalent of raving on about jihad, but that is the major problem."

Muslims routinely destroy property, threaten death and bodily harm to those who speak out against them, and they constantly fund terrorism throughout the world. In Syria they have burnt an embassy, in Europe Muslims have been responsible for murdering people who have written out against Islam or made movies, and other forms of art. These actions are also approved by Islamic teachers (Imams) and religious leaders, not just undertaken by warped loners claiming to represent Islam quite against the will of the majority or authority.

With this ridiculous cartoon issue, we have seen that Islam has no sense of perspective. In the west parody or satire is seen as not only common, but completely harmless for the most part. And religion is not immune to parody and satire, though even in the west most people are often uncomfortable with religious satire. Usually only people filled with hate attack religion in parody and most in the West instinctively know this. As a result, most people dismiss such parody as foolishness and bad taste.

But with Muslims overreacting — in western eyes at least — to this silly cartoon issue in the way they have, it becomes nearly impossible for Westerners to view Islam as a peaceful religion, but more as a vicious hate group itself. And that perception is justified with the actions that Muslims have increasingly perpetrated over the ensuing years. So, we find that Islam presents a danger to the safety of the populace all too often. It is violent, oppressive, and reactionary.

But, what is to be done about it? We have been raised to feel that religion should be left untouched by government. Freedom of religion is at the very core of our beliefs. And this concept is an important one to uphold. So, how can we honestly and without hypocrisy begin to look toward making Islam illegal?

There is a parallel of sorts in the USA that might be used as a template for action. The Ku klux Klan.

After the Civil War ended, the KKK arose from the ashes of war as an advocacy group for the disenfranchised white voter in the south. But it quickly became a terrorist organization bent on taking out revenge on the south's newly freed black population for having lost the war. It got so bad that even one of the original organizers, C.S. Cavalry General Nathan Bedford Forrest, denounced the organization and quit it in disgust.

But as the late 1800s rolled on and the south began to re-enter the Union as full partners in government, the KKK began to lose steam and prominence. For a time it subsided. But as the 20th century neared, it re-emerged and this time became a nationwide and powerful force taking on the flavor of religious, civic and racial duty. The KKK became invested in government and claimed millions of members nation wide.

In the 1920s, however, it became too much for a liberty loving country to allow the KKK to any longer exist. In Indiana, the entire state government was scandalized by their fealty to Indiana's Klan leader who had raped and beaten his secretary on a train trip. Violence against and frequent lynching of southern blacks became so pervasive that Congress finally acted and banned the Klan. The organization collapsed never again to reclaim the power and prominence it once had.

Now, the KKK has always based its precepts on Christianity, as well as racial identity. It also reacted with violence, rallies, death threats and killing when it was threatened. It careened far away from being a mere "idea" or religious theology and became a terrorist organization. And it became a terrorist organization even though literally millions of Americans that belonged to or identified with the Klan were not themselves violent, evil, or dangerous citizens.

The leadership of the Klan supported violence. The leadership preached violence. The leadership planned and fomented it. Therefore, it had to go because it became a danger to every law-abiding citizen, whether they agreed with the racial and religious concepts the Klan espoused or not.

Islam has become the KKK of the 21st century. The sooner we awake to this truth and take steps to ban the religion, or somehow curtail its pernicious influence the better. The west is going to have to put sever restrictions on Islamic Mosques and public display of Islam. Further, devout Muslims should not be allowed to hold public office (though it certainly should not become a racial issue — sins of the father should not be visited upon the sons).

This is no religious purge as in centuries past. In the past religions were banned to be replaced by the state sponsored sect and believers of the banned religion were mistreated, tortured, unduly taxed, and terrorized. This is absolutely not the model the west would follow by banning aspects of Islam today. No religion is replacing Islam and no one is suggesting that Muslims be mistreated. But the creed to which they hold is fast becoming the most dangerous one in the world today. It is a fine line that we walk to consider banning Islam, but the safety of society is at risk not to do so.

This is not an easy conclusion at which to arrive. But if we continue to turn a blind eye to the danger that Islam presents to the west, we are signing our own death warrants.

The KKK was put down in the USA and made powerless for the same reason. Communism was destroyed for the same reason, as well. Islam is a danger to the world.

Unfortunately, it is just that simple.

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#69. To: who knows what evil (#51)

there aren't any examples of that happening anywhere in world history.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of examples. They're examples replete with stories of much suffering by commoners like you and me.

Feneration is slow death of community and culture.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-02-20   20:52:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: fatidic (#17)

Why weren't the Muslims the biggest threat to the world ten years ago, or 60 years ago, even 200 years ago?

Only in the past few years have we heard the Muslims are so very dangerous they might take over the US and kill us all. It's BS, and they are intentionally being stirred up in Europe. More smoke and mirrors crap.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-20   20:53:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: fatidic (#66)

Okay.. now that that is clear.. in regard to this thread.. what exactly are you trying to say in regard to muslims in this country.. as to how they should be dealt with?

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-20   20:55:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Zipporah (#71)

Okay.. now that that is clear.. in regard to this thread.. what exactly are you trying to say in regard to muslims in this country.. as to how they should be dealt with?

With our eyes wide open, armed with facts about their religion and its history we should feel free, even obligated to discuss, ridicule, question, challenge the tenets of islam. We should not hate people, nor scapegoat them, nor excuse obnoxious behavior or fear them, or coddle them, but we should as a nation repent of our invasion of iraq and express our sorrow over the torture and destruction of that country to every muslim we encounter.

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-20   21:16:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: who knows what evil, bluegrass (#25)

I never implied that there weren't other threats that we might succumb to BEFORE Muslims became a majority...my questions had nothing to do with those possibiities...my question speculated what might happen to us under a MUSLIM majority.

It's never going to happen, in the US we need to worry more about radical Latino groups and gangs. There are a lot more of them in this country and they hate us more than the few Muslims do. Most of the Muslims came here to escape the life style in the country they came from, most are educated, at least it was like that 6 years ago. Is FOX news telling us now that Arab American Muslims are a huge threat to the US and they want to kill us all? It's interesting to me how the media can sway people's minds so easily.

If our govt were truly worried about Muslims taking over they would not be selling the operation of major US ports to UAE Arab Muslims.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-20   21:17:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: fatidic (#72)

With our eyes wide open, armed with facts about their religion and its history we should feel free, even obligated to discuss, ridicule, question, challenge the tenets of islam. We should not hate people, nor scapegoat them, nor excuse obnoxious behavior or fear them, or coddle them, but we should as a nation repent of our invasion of iraq and express our sorrow over the torture and destruction of that country to every muslim we encounter.

So are you saying that their religion is a danger to us here in the US?

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-20   21:27:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Zipporah (#28)

there was no real problem with Islam in this century other until the west meddled...

Exactly!

Once again history changes!

Those in charge of the show think we have no ability to remember anything, like trying to get us believe bin laden really is alive. I love it how on FOX they show his younger, healthy pictures when he still had color to his beard and face.

By the way, I wonder why the media has dropped Zarqawi? Did too many people catch on that he was fabricated?

Diana  posted on  2006-02-20   21:46:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Zipporah (#74)

So are you saying that their religion is a danger to us here in the US?

Yes, believing lies which lead to bondage of any sort poses insidious dangers anywhere from the personal tragedies of american women marrying charming muslim men who freely use deception in the wooing (doesn't everyone?) to find that wife beating and obedience is expected, to selling the dangerous and blasphemous idea that allah and the God of the Bible are the same being. False beliefs undermine a nation, esp to the extent they are hateful.

Deception often leads to danger, esp when muslims are under koranic obligation to lie to hide the offensive aspects of islam such as the requirement to take over all the world for allah and replace every other form of government with an islamic one. We can't really expect a muslim emmigrant to make this admission, now can we? So, from the tone of your posts am i correct in supposing that you either don't take the religion as seriously as many muslims do, or do you deny these troubling aspects of islam?

Two last question before i call it quits for the evening, do you think muslims should practice pedophilla by "marrying" girls as young as six, seven and eight and having sex slaves as their esteemed prophet did or should some religious beliefs not be allowed? These are still widely practiced in islamic countries.

Also, do you know what it means to a muslim to say, "We are for peace. Islam is a religion of peace."?

good night.

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-20   22:00:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: fatidic (#76)

Two last question before i call it quits for the evening, do you think muslims should practice pedophilla by "marrying" girls as young as six, seven and eight and having sex slaves as their esteemed prophet did or should some religious beliefs not be allowed? These are still widely practiced in islamic countries.

One question before I answer this.. have you read the Talmud?

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-20   22:07:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: fatidic, Bluegrass, Zipporah, Dakmar, Zoroaster, christine (#72)

With our eyes wide open, armed with facts about their religion and its history we should feel free, even obligated to discuss, ridicule, question, challenge the tenets of islam.

How about this:

With our eyes wide open, armed with facts about their religion and its history we should feel free, even obligated to discuss, ridicule, question, challenge the tenets of Judaism/Zionism.

How do you feel about that statement?

Are Zakheim, Edelstein, Perle, Wolfowitz, et. al. Islamic?

Are PNAC/AIPAC/ACLU/SPLC/ADL/NAACP/JINSA/federal media/Hollywood just top heavy and chock full of Muslims?

Who is the REAL threat to America and Americans???????

You CANNOT be serious going on about the "Islamic threat" to America and Americans as it is just a bunch of Zionist propaganda bullshit. All this Islamophobic nonsense is just a bunch of Zionist propaganda BS--plain and simple.

Islamics could NOT take over America or the world even if they wanted to. Can't happen. Ain't going to happen. That entire concept is simply laughable. They could NEVER get past the Zionists, anyway.

In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.

wbales  posted on  2006-02-20   22:08:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: mehitable, Zipporah (#29)

Now reality is held hostage to ideology. We're going to destroy Western civilization if we keep up this pretense that we are all somehow the same.

I believe that is the objective, too many events point to this being the case.

We have a dead bin laden (western intel agencies) telling the world how Americans are using brutal torture in Iraq, the UAE being in control of major ports, highways in TX being sold to Spain (or so I was told), all the unwashed masses pouring over our borders unstopped, hatreds being formented between the various ethnic groups we now have in this country, jobs being outsourced to India, whole companies moving to other countries, factories closed down, and on and on..... Before we are completely dismantled we will be looted of all money and blood.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-20   22:09:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: bluegrass (#69)

Unfortunately, there are plenty of examples. They're examples replete with stories of much suffering by commoners like you and me.

Sorry...thought my sarcasm was evident.

who knows what evil  posted on  2006-02-20   22:13:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Diana (#73)

If our govt were truly worried about Muslims taking over they would not be selling the operation of major US ports to UAE Arab Muslims.

The 'government' isn't worried about anyone...they'll take care of themselves when TSHTF. It will be the rest of us that get screwed...

who knows what evil  posted on  2006-02-20   22:15:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: fatidic, Zipporah (#76)

Deception often leads to danger, esp when muslims are under koranic obligation to lie to hide the offensive aspects of islam such as the requirement to take over all the world for allah and replace every other form of government with an islamic one. We can't really expect a muslim emmigrant to make this admission, now can we? So, from the tone of your posts am i correct in supposing that you either don't take the religion as seriously as many muslims do, or do you deny these troubling aspects of islam?

What you are describing are the more radical parts of the Jewish Talmud exactly.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-20   22:15:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: who knows what evil, faditic, mehitable (#36)

To: mehitable

My advice to people at this point is prepare yourself and your loved ones to be the remnant that survives.

We share the same perspective. Good luck.

I agree!

Diana  posted on  2006-02-20   22:33:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Diana (#82)

What you are describing are the more radical parts of the Jewish Talmud exactly.

Those don't count.

In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.

wbales  posted on  2006-02-20   22:39:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Dakmar (#42)

The perptrator of the worst genocide ever is the United States.

Sometimes I wonder if this country is doomed because it was taken from peoples who lived on this continent for thousands of years. Though I suppose this sort of thing has happened before in history, but maybe we were suppose to know better than taking over an entire continent that belonged to other peoples.

The US didn't last very long, only a little over 200 years.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-20   22:39:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: fatidic (#43)

If only everyone would stay in their own backyards and not meddle with other nations we would not be having all these problems.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-20   22:41:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: who knows what evil, bluegrass (#51)

To: bluegrass

The current dominant minority will never allow any majority to take power.

You're right...there aren't any examples of that happening anywhere in world history.

What about Iceland and the Scandinavian countries? Who are their ruling minorities?

Diana  posted on  2006-02-20   22:47:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Diana (#86)

If only everyone would stay in their own backyards and not meddle with other nations we would not be having all these problems.

Buchanan was right. :-)

who knows what evil  posted on  2006-02-20   22:53:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: fatidic (#66)

Please look at it this way, the US egged on by Israel and greedy oil barons invaded a couple of Muslim countries who may have had strange ways, but they did not invade us. And remember our government told us the 19 hijackers were Saudis, though oddly 7 of them are still alive and not happy with the American government for stealing their identities to be used in a false flag operation.

These problems with Muslims all stem from the Israeli/Palestinian conflict IMO. And lots of people from all sides are being riled up on purpose. But please look at the actions of the Muslim countries, not their words but their actions. Then look at the actions of US/Israel.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-20   22:54:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: fatidic (#67)

Do you remember the Muslims being such a huge threat back in 1992 or so? No, because the media was not telling that to us back then, only Saddam, who ruled over a secular Iraq, and the Serbs were the bad guys. Back then we were to feel sorry for the Muslim Albanians, they were the good guys. And if you go back a decade, the US was giving money and weapons to Saddam!

These people in charge of us all are masters of deception, though they are not quite as clever as they think. And as GWB would say, they highly misunderestimate us all.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-20   23:01:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Zipporah, fatdic (#77)

One question before I answer this.. have you read the Talmud?

I haven't, it's 2500 pages or so. But I have read SOME of it. Orthodox jews, I believe, take it as the basis of their faith.

From what I understand, many or most of the book burnings from the middle ages were a result of Martin Luther, either learning Hebrew or employing a translator to translate the Talmud in to his tounge.

He was appalled and angered by what he read, as were the rest of the host countrymen, when they saw what was written.

This led to many of the "Book Burnings" that we were taught as young 'uns to be the work of peoples who hated learning, for some, always, unexplained, reason.

The Talmud is very difficult to find in English, and one of the restrictions contained in it is not to reveal to the goy it's contents.

Sounds like a secret society, by the loosest of definations.

tom007  posted on  2006-02-20   23:11:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: who knows what evil (#81)

The 'government' isn't worried about anyone...they'll take care of themselves when TSHTF. It will be the rest of us that get screwed...

who knows what evil posted on 2006-02-20 22:15:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

Reality POST OF THE DAY.

tom007  posted on  2006-02-20   23:12:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: Diana (#68)

Different tribes cannot share the same land without fighting, so it's best to separate them.

So true, especially when the tribes are made up of aggressive people.

When you look at the history of the world, the most aggressive tribe of all has been the white tribe. That's why I think these problems we have are temporary. There will come a tipping point -- and it's starting already -- and then the problems of illegal immmigrants, etc., will be fixed.

"I aim to misbehave" -- Mal Reynolds, Firefly

YertleTurtle  posted on  2006-02-21   5:50:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: wbales (#78)

slamics could NOT take over America or the world even if they wanted to. Can't happen. Ain't going to happen. That entire concept is simply laughable. They could NEVER get past the Zionists, anyway.

You're missing the point which is not whether it's feasible for muslims to take over the world, but what is their aim? If it is to take over the world's governments and they do comprise a huge percentage and growing of the world's population, it is silly not to take their aims/religion/mindset/actions seriously. You evidently prefer to ignore what doesn't suit you so you can blame jews for all the world's woes. Talk about an axe to grind and extreme prejudice. Why should i bother to take your questions seriously?

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-21   11:13:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: Zipporah (#77)

One question before I answer this.. have you read the Talmud?

You're deflecting, a time-worn fallacy in logic, or should i say avoidance progaganda. If the Talmud advocates practices which are illegal they should not be allowed under the laws of the land, no exceptions, IMO. So what really is your point? You seem full of venon toward jews but unwilling to apply the same judgments to muslims and the koran. Why not be fair-minded, which you have not come accross as to me in these posts?

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-21   11:17:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: Diana (#82)

What you are describing are the more radical parts of the Jewish Talmud exactly.

If that is so, then it is so, but is your point that my statement does not apply to islam? It seems a few on this thread are in serious denial about the facts of islam and attempt to shift all assignment of guilt/wrong doing onto jews. Well, if i joined a thread about the ills of the Talmud and then attempted to divert it to the evils of islam you'd probably think i have a big axe to grind, which is what i think is going on here.

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-21   11:23:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: fatidic (#95)

One question before I answer this.. have you read the Talmud?

You're deflecting, a time-worn fallacy in logic, or should i say avoidance progaganda. If the Talmud advocates practices which are illegal they should not be allowed under the laws of the land, no exceptions, IMO. So what really is your point? You seem full of venon toward jews but unwilling to apply the same judgments to muslims and the koran. Why not be fair-minded, which you have not come accross as to me in these posts?

No I'm not deflecting or avoiding anything.. I dont have venom towards anyone.. it was an honest question.. plain and simple.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-21   11:24:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: Diana (#90)

I think i understand your confusion if you are coming to an awakening of the islamic threat as depicted by the media. I was long aware (with many others) of the nature of islam and some knowledge of world history long ago, so my views are not formed by the media or bush&co's progaganda machine.

It seems to me you are making a mistake in reasoning that since one group, which you obviously dislike, is so bad that the ones they are picking on must automatically be victims. But that is not necessarily so, and in the case of the muslim/jewish confict, the muslim/crusader conflict, and many more national and relgious conflicts involving muslims over the centuries there is a lot of blame/guilt to go around and there does not have to be a good side/bad side in dichotomy in every conflict.

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-21   11:38:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: Zipporah, Diana (#97)

To answer your question, no i have not read all of the Talmud, just a few snippets and boy was it scary. No one but muslims believe the koran was orignial and from the few snippets of the talmud i read i can see that mohammed heavily borrowed from some of the worst parts.

So much to be appalled at, so little time.

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-21   12:44:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: fatidic (#99)

To answer your question, no i have not read all of the Talmud, just a few snippets and boy was it scary. No one but muslims believe the koran was orignial and from the few snippets of the talmud i read i can see that mohammed heavily borrowed from some of the worst parts.

So much to be appalled at, so little time.

Well it is many volumes so it would be a tad difficult to read all of it..

It's possibly but I dont know about the connection between the two?

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-21   12:48:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: Zipporah (#100)

It's possibly but I dont know about the connection between the two?

Just start reading an english translation of the koran and your eyes will pop.

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-21   13:13:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: fatidic (#101)

There is insane violence in the Old Testament too. Remember the Canaanites? They were genocided. Does that mean modern Jews and Christians approve of genocide?

I'll concede that there are few nutcase Moslems who are a threat, but there are people like that that in all religions.

I basically see most of the problems in the Islamic countries as being blowback for 100 years of western imperialism and intervention.

Are you familiar with the atrocities committed by Japan during WWII? If so, do you think Shinto should be outlawed?

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2006-02-21   13:51:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: Dakmar (#102)

You're making no distinctions whatsoever between fringe lunatics who do very bad things in the name of their religion but in contridiction to its teachings and those who do very bad things in compliance with the teachings of their religion. Why don't you get a clue?

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-21   14:37:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: fatidic (#103)

How so, with the Japan reference? I see Emperor worhip a very much a part of the Japanese religious belief system at the time.

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2006-02-21   14:41:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: fatidic (#96)

If that is so, then it is so, but is your point that my statement does not apply to islam? It seems a few on this thread are in serious denial about the facts of islam and attempt to shift all assignment of guilt/wrong doing onto jews. Well, if i joined a thread about the ills of the Talmud and then attempted to divert it to the evils of islam you'd probably think i have a big axe to grind, which is what i think is going on here.

It would probably be a good idea for everyone to find some books on Islam published before 2000 or so. It has been distorted by the media and those in charge of us who use propaganda as it would not be condusive to war if we did not hate our enemy.

I have an uncle who has been reading books on Islam, objective books published ten years ago or earlier. One of the main law is to give to the poor, they are obliged to give to the poor, but we no longer hear about that.

When I lived in TX I knew some Muslims through work, these guys were educated though and weren't particularly religious, but like Christians they would like to see the world converted, but not by the sword, they are smart enough to realize that method does not work. That's not to say there are not radicals as there are radicals in all religions who would like to kill anyone not like them.

These are the truly dangerous people whatever their religion.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-21   18:29:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: fatidic (#98)

It seems to me you are making a mistake in reasoning that since one group, which you obviously dislike, is so bad that the ones they are picking on must automatically be victims. But that is not necessarily so, and in the case of the muslim/jewish confict, the muslim/crusader conflict, and many more national and relgious conflicts involving muslims over the centuries there is a lot of blame/guilt to go around and there does not have to be a good side/bad side in dichotomy in every conflict.

Right, all religions at one time or another have been guilty of mass atrocities such as the Inquistion by the Christians, the Muslims who conquered and killed others, and Jews who formented revolutions which resulted in the deaths of millions. All have been guilty at one time or another.

I don't hate Jews, I become very annoyed with the radical Jews who can be very rude and downright murderous. Because I worry about those guys, (and I don't hate even them, I just don't like what they do because they are destructive to non-Jews) does not mean I hate Jews. Just because I know there are radical parts in the Talmud, does not mean I hate Jews. You can find brutality and hate in the Bible too, and in the Koran as well.

We happen to be living in a time period where Jews are heading up things, this can't be denyed, and many of them are radicals who do not like gentiles. That is not a good thing.

I just want everyone to mind their business and stay in their own backyards, and treat all living things with respect and care.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-21   18:41:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: fatidic (#98)

It seems to me you are making a mistake in reasoning that since one group, which you obviously dislike, is so bad that the ones they are picking on must automatically be victims. But that is not necessarily so,

I don't think that. I know all groups are capable of engaging in bad acts.

I've been aware that there have been Palestinians blowing up Israelis for decades now. Anyone who targets innocent Israeli people on buses or in restaurants or in shopping centers is a monster. Yet again there are kind and good-hearted Palestinians who don't like what their people are doing.

I didn't know much about Islam until the early 90s when I worked with a couple of Iranian people. They spent their childhoods in Iran and were brought up Muslim. They were very nice and great to work with.

When I started at that job and encountered those guys, I wanted to know more about the Islamic religion. So I bought a book called "Understand Islam" which explained a lot about their religion and cultures. The author was a Jewish guy, he was much more of a scholar than a propaganda writer, the book was objective and informative. No politics were mentioned. There were indeed some harsh things in the Koran, but part of their laws are to help the poor, and be humane to animals (though I don't know how well many Arabs practice this one). In the end it's really another book of laws for people to live by. And the people who practice Islam have their own versions of it as it's practiced in various areas around the world, and they tend to incorporate their culture into it.

My aunt and uncle came to visit me this past summer, and he brought some books with him, two of them about the Muslim religion. His books also just told the facts with no subtle or not so subtle insinuations. They have their good and bad like anyone else. But they are urged to be good people and to treat others fairly.

And again, these problems with radical muslims have been drilled into our conscience for the past 5 years or so until we think of them all as horrible monsters. as they've been trying to make us think that they've been a terrible danger to the US for a long time.

Diana  posted on  2006-02-22   1:39:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: Dakmar (#102)

There is insane violence in the Old Testament too. Remember the Canaanites? They were genocided. Does that mean modern Jews and Christians approve of genocide?

I'll concede that there are few nutcase Moslems who are a threat, but there are people like that that in all religions.

I basically see most of the problems in the Islamic countries as being blowback for 100 years of western imperialism and intervention.

I agree with you completely! Well said!

Diana  posted on  2006-02-22   1:50:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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