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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Making Islam Illegal -- Is It The West's Only Choice?
Source: www.renewamerica.us
URL Source: http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/huston/060219
Published: Feb 19, 2006
Author: Warner Todd Huston
Post Date: 2006-02-20 11:28:07 by Mind_Virus
Keywords: Illegal, Choice?, Making
Views: 1261
Comments: 108

Making Islam Illegal -- Is It The West's Only Choice?

Warner Todd Huston February 19, 2006

When President Bush gave his "axis of evil" speech he went out of his way to make the world understand that it isn't a war with Islam itself that we were joining — and I say joining because the war had been started by the Jihadists decades before. And, in observance to our Western principles, that must be the correct way to view our conflagration with radical Islam.

Let's face facts, it certainly is uncomfortable to a Westerner who has been brought up on tolerance, freedom of religion, and liberty to contemplate a war against an entire religion. But are we approaching a time when Western nations won't have a choice but to target Islam itself in certain ways to keep their own people safe. The best course of action is to make public displays of Islam and certain of its practices illegal in Western nations.

So, the question becomes are we at that time now? Are we fast approaching a time when Mosques will be closed and banned? Have we come to a time when Islamic literature is turned away from our borders? Have the childish and dangerous reactions of Muslims to this cartoon in a Danish newspaper proven that Islam cannot be trusted to be a vital, peaceful, and law-abiding segment of society?

It is looking like yes is the answer to these queries.

We are already approaching this today. In Ontario they have officially outlawed Muslim Sharia law, that law that uses religious precepts to enforce moral and society codes of conduct. And Muslim "family councils" have been stopped where local community groups may supplement Canadian law with their local custom.

Several members of the John Howard administration in Australia have spoken out against Islamic clashes with Western notions of law and societal comportment many times over the last few years.

Recently Howard himself said, "I do think there is this particular complication because there is a fragment which is utterly antagonistic to our kind of society, and that is a difficulty ... You can't find any equivalent in Italian, or Greek, or Lebanese, or Chinese or Baltic immigration to Australia. There is no equivalent of raving on about jihad, but that is the major problem."

Muslims routinely destroy property, threaten death and bodily harm to those who speak out against them, and they constantly fund terrorism throughout the world. In Syria they have burnt an embassy, in Europe Muslims have been responsible for murdering people who have written out against Islam or made movies, and other forms of art. These actions are also approved by Islamic teachers (Imams) and religious leaders, not just undertaken by warped loners claiming to represent Islam quite against the will of the majority or authority.

With this ridiculous cartoon issue, we have seen that Islam has no sense of perspective. In the west parody or satire is seen as not only common, but completely harmless for the most part. And religion is not immune to parody and satire, though even in the west most people are often uncomfortable with religious satire. Usually only people filled with hate attack religion in parody and most in the West instinctively know this. As a result, most people dismiss such parody as foolishness and bad taste.

But with Muslims overreacting — in western eyes at least — to this silly cartoon issue in the way they have, it becomes nearly impossible for Westerners to view Islam as a peaceful religion, but more as a vicious hate group itself. And that perception is justified with the actions that Muslims have increasingly perpetrated over the ensuing years. So, we find that Islam presents a danger to the safety of the populace all too often. It is violent, oppressive, and reactionary.

But, what is to be done about it? We have been raised to feel that religion should be left untouched by government. Freedom of religion is at the very core of our beliefs. And this concept is an important one to uphold. So, how can we honestly and without hypocrisy begin to look toward making Islam illegal?

There is a parallel of sorts in the USA that might be used as a template for action. The Ku klux Klan.

After the Civil War ended, the KKK arose from the ashes of war as an advocacy group for the disenfranchised white voter in the south. But it quickly became a terrorist organization bent on taking out revenge on the south's newly freed black population for having lost the war. It got so bad that even one of the original organizers, C.S. Cavalry General Nathan Bedford Forrest, denounced the organization and quit it in disgust.

But as the late 1800s rolled on and the south began to re-enter the Union as full partners in government, the KKK began to lose steam and prominence. For a time it subsided. But as the 20th century neared, it re-emerged and this time became a nationwide and powerful force taking on the flavor of religious, civic and racial duty. The KKK became invested in government and claimed millions of members nation wide.

In the 1920s, however, it became too much for a liberty loving country to allow the KKK to any longer exist. In Indiana, the entire state government was scandalized by their fealty to Indiana's Klan leader who had raped and beaten his secretary on a train trip. Violence against and frequent lynching of southern blacks became so pervasive that Congress finally acted and banned the Klan. The organization collapsed never again to reclaim the power and prominence it once had.

Now, the KKK has always based its precepts on Christianity, as well as racial identity. It also reacted with violence, rallies, death threats and killing when it was threatened. It careened far away from being a mere "idea" or religious theology and became a terrorist organization. And it became a terrorist organization even though literally millions of Americans that belonged to or identified with the Klan were not themselves violent, evil, or dangerous citizens.

The leadership of the Klan supported violence. The leadership preached violence. The leadership planned and fomented it. Therefore, it had to go because it became a danger to every law-abiding citizen, whether they agreed with the racial and religious concepts the Klan espoused or not.

Islam has become the KKK of the 21st century. The sooner we awake to this truth and take steps to ban the religion, or somehow curtail its pernicious influence the better. The west is going to have to put sever restrictions on Islamic Mosques and public display of Islam. Further, devout Muslims should not be allowed to hold public office (though it certainly should not become a racial issue — sins of the father should not be visited upon the sons).

This is no religious purge as in centuries past. In the past religions were banned to be replaced by the state sponsored sect and believers of the banned religion were mistreated, tortured, unduly taxed, and terrorized. This is absolutely not the model the west would follow by banning aspects of Islam today. No religion is replacing Islam and no one is suggesting that Muslims be mistreated. But the creed to which they hold is fast becoming the most dangerous one in the world today. It is a fine line that we walk to consider banning Islam, but the safety of society is at risk not to do so.

This is not an easy conclusion at which to arrive. But if we continue to turn a blind eye to the danger that Islam presents to the west, we are signing our own death warrants.

The KKK was put down in the USA and made powerless for the same reason. Communism was destroyed for the same reason, as well. Islam is a danger to the world.

Unfortunately, it is just that simple.

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#26. To: who knows what evil (#25)

my question speculated what might happen to us under a MUSLIM majority

Your question is meaningless. It's like asking, "Gee, what if this were a flood?" while the house was on fire.

Feneration is slow death of community and culture.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-02-20   15:02:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: bluegrass (#26)

Your question is meaningless.

Sorry...just a long-term thinker. You're right...since I don't have children or grandchildren; I won't have to worry about what might happen to them under Muslim rule. Forget I mentioned it. Meaningless.

who knows what evil  posted on  2006-02-20   15:07:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: fatidic (#17)

That is exactly what I was addressing the proposal of the article. I do not get my information from any pro-Islamic sources.. I made the statement from observation of what people have said both in forums and on TV and radio.. You dont think there is a propanda campaign against Islam? Read this: Taxpayer dollars for anti-Islam propaganda in Iraq

Listing a lot of Old Testament Scripture isn't helping to clarifying the dicussion either as the basic difference between a practicing orthodox jew and a practicing orthodox muslim has to do with a little thing called world domination with the former not being interested in and the latter being keen on. If you do not understand this then i'm sorry to say that you are ignorant of islamic history, mohammed's life and teachings and current events, no offense intended. Now i ask you, where are fundamentalist jews running around (outside of israel, of course) trying to take over governments and killing people because mosas is dissed?

The listing of OT scripture was done for one purpose.. to show that there are scriptures in the bible that do compare to those that many cite as proof that Islam is evil... compare those scriptures with some that people cite re Islam not much different. And regarding world domination.. there was no real problem with Islam in this century other until the west meddled... And don't cite bin Laden and 9/11 for if you knew the history of bin Laden and the US, you'd well understand his connection with the CIA. Did you read the Fisk article? Do you understand just WHO published the articles in the Jyllands-Posten and what his connections are?? Do you know anything about the plight of the Palestinians and here http://www.anglicanjournal.com/127/02/af01.html (there are too many links to include here at this time)?? I do know the history of the middle east and Islam .. I'm not advocating their belief system.. what I am advocating for is MY freedom is in jeopardy whenever OTHERS' freedom is in jeopardy

As to the whether a muslim will uphold the u.s. constitution the answer is maybe, but you can't depend on it if they are on a religious mission to (there is a islamic term for hiding one's true intentions in order to take over the government and another for lying to non-muslims in the service of allah) take over. Besides, Zip, you're question ignores a basic fact that the u.s. constitution does not violate the basic tenets of christianity per se, while it must be acknowledged that it is in conflict with islamic principlesm e.g. freedom of speech, religion, the press and so on.

So you're basically saying is you are in favor of preemptive strikes against an entire religion and race due to what they MAY do?? So we just toss out the Constitution?? Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. As I said and I'll repeat it.. if we dont protect the rights of ALL then our rights are in jeopardy.

And how may I ask is Islam against freedom of the press?? Are you going to cite the issues regarding the cartoons? Again I'll refer you to looking into just who Flemming Rose is.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-20   15:10:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: YertleTurtle (#9)

I see no solution to this problem except to expell Muslims from the United States and Europe. And while we're at it, Mexicans, too, from the U.S.

It's not because I hate them, either. Different tribes cannot share the same land without fighting, so it's best to separate them.

You're right, of course. This is what used to pass for common sense. Now reality is held hostage to ideology. We're going to destroy Western civilization if we keep up this pretense that we are all somehow the same.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-20   15:13:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: mehitable, YertleTurtle (#29)

If we could just kick out those who brought us the concepts of multi- culturalism and "celebrating diversity" the other problems would take care of themselves.

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2006-02-20   15:16:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: mehitable (#29)

We're going to destroy Western civilization if we keep up this pretense that we are all somehow the same.

Too late...America's best days are behind her. We have five years, tops.

who knows what evil  posted on  2006-02-20   15:17:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: who knows what evil, fatidic (#27)

I don't think it's Muslim rule we need fear. It's the Luceriferian NWO rule we should fear. This criticism of various religions is nothing but a diversionary and divisive tactic to remove the focus from who is the real enemy.

christine  posted on  2006-02-20   15:19:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: bluegrass (#24)

Nothing else can be expected from barnyard animals.

LOL!..

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-20   15:21:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: who knows what evil (#31)

I agree - I think we've passed the point of no return. Not just with the illegals, but with everything. We see new scandals and outrages breaking almost every day now. The NO levees are like a metaphor for the entire country (and Europe too) - the dams are cracking and we're running out of fingers.

My advice to people at this point is prepare yourself and your loved ones to be the remnant that survives. Learn how to grow, prepare, can your own food and learn where you can find potable water. Arm yourself and try to get shelter you can control. Get rid of as much debt as possible. Try to figure out you can trust out of a small group and what kinds of skills you can trade. Learn basic carpentry, plumbing, sewing - things like that. The curtain of the Dark Ages is falling.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-20   15:22:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Dakmar (#30)

f we could just kick out those who brought us the concepts of multi- culturalism and "celebrating diversity" the other problems would take care of themselves.

Isnt that the truth?!.. Gause's Law playing itself out.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-20   15:22:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: mehitable (#34)

My advice to people at this point is prepare yourself and your loved ones to be the remnant that survives.

We share the same perspective. Good luck.

who knows what evil  posted on  2006-02-20   15:37:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: christine, mehitable (#32)

I don't think it's Muslim rule we need fear.

I don't fear anyone's rule...my question was speculation, simple as that. I'm taking the advice of 'mehitable'. Good luck to all!

who knows what evil  posted on  2006-02-20   15:41:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Zipporah (#28)

Zip, i hardly know where to begin. It seems i have not made myself clear so let me try again so that whatever we may disagree about is what we really disagree about and not a misreading or misunderstanding of what is written. Mainly i want you to understand that i do not believe any religion is immune to violating the life, liberty or freedoms of others that our constitution protects and that each is free to practice whatever one believes as long as the practices do not violate our laws or seek to overthrow our constitution.

I am for freedom of religion and support entirely the first admendment without reservation. The question is, which i don't think you have answered, is the first admendment in conflict with islam? The answer is a resounding yes. How you ask? Islam forbids, and i've read these verses in the koran myself, absolutely any criticism of mohammed, allah and islam. Mohammed, in fact, killed many people because they made fun of him.

It is suicide to protect a religion in its entirety whose main purpose for existence is to destroy everything that isn't it. So, once again, i hope you will not put silly words in my mouth about preemptive strikes against an entire religion, and keep in mind that i advocate limiting certain practices of islam which conflict with our laws and the first admendment. That also means that i will exercise my freedoms and responsibilities to speak against islam and the vile practices of mohammed and hope that i would not be killed for practicing the first admendment in america.

Bad behavior on america's part toward demonizing muslims does not absolve islam/muslims for crimes this religion advocates, on yes, and actually carries out by true believers.

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-20   15:46:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Zipporah (#11)

Had that cartoon of the Prophet shown instead a chief rabbi with a bomb-shaped hat, we would have had "anti-Semitism" screamed into our ears - and rightly so - just as we often hear the Israelis complain about anti-Semitic cartoons in Egyptian newspapers.

Zip, i hope you can see what evidently Fisk did not as illustrated by his quote above, and that is that the anti-semitic screaming of jews to cartoons of ridicule is by order of magnitude a different response than the islamic response of blood-letting and property-destroying violence all over the world! Actions, as they say, speak louder than words.

Now, i will have to continue this conversation later tonight as i have much work to do. Cheers.

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-20   15:56:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: christine (#32)

I don't think it's Muslim rule we need fear. It's the Luceriferian NWO rule we should fear. This criticism of various religions is nothing but a diversionary and divisive tactic to remove the focus from who is the real enemy.

What makes you think we have only one enemy, or that, if we do have just one enemy that he limits himself to manifesting in only one form on only one front? Seems a false choice to me.

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-20   15:59:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: fatidic (#39)

Zip, i hope you can see what evidently Fisk did not as illustrated by his quote above, and that is that the anti-semitic screaming of jews to cartoons of ridicule is by order of magnitude a different response than the islamic response of blood-letting and property-destroying violence all over the world! Actions, as they say, speak louder than words.

Now, i will have to continue this conversation later tonight as i have much work to do. Cheers.

What Fisk left out is that those people would be in jail if they lived in the EU.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-20   16:06:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: fatidic (#39)

i hope you can see what evidently Fisk did not as illustrated by his quote above, and that is that the anti-semitic screaming of jews to cartoons of ridicule is by order of magnitude a different response than the islamic response of blood-letting and property-destroying violence all over the world!

The Zionists are responsible for more than their share of bloodletting and property destruction, how many Palistinean homes and farms have been destroyed or seized, you suppose?

Jews living in Muslim countries have more rights, relative to the rest of the population, than Muslims living in Israel.

The perptrator of the worst genocide ever is the United States.

Just a few things to consider.

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2006-02-20   16:15:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Zipporah (#41)

What Fisk left out is that those people would be in jail if they lived in the EU.

And rightly so. Lawbreakers should be punished even if they claim their god made them do it. Just as if jews try to stone an adultress and claim religious exemption from murder, they should be held to account by the laws of the land. And if mormons practice polygamy or jehovah's witnesses refuse life-saving blood transfusions to their children, they all should be held to account for the laws they are breaking.

But back to the subject of islam being a religion that has an unusally high number of requirements/tenets that put them at odds with western civilization (deeply flawed though it is), what purpose is served by avoiding this conclusion?

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-20   19:26:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: fatidic (#40)

Seems a false choice to me.

Indeed. However, many still feel that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Not in this case. NWO and Muslims are BOTH bad news. End of story.

who knows what evil  posted on  2006-02-20   19:29:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Dakmar (#42)

Are you trying to absolve one lawbreaking group by listing the lawbreaking of other groups? This tactic veers us off the subject and seems to imply that anyone taking a critical look at the tenets of islam and mohammed's life as the perfect muslim had better shut up if heshe is a jew or american.

Well, i say that we can/should criticize islam and even ourselves and our own government, and if apply a single non-hypocritical standard without malice that such criticism is necessary and beneficial. Let the crumbled cookie speak for itself!

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-20   19:38:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: who knows what evil (#27)

since I don't have children or grandchildren; I won't have to worry about what might happen to them under Muslim rule.

You're obviously unfamiliar with government and history. Dominant minorities holding power are the rule, not the exception. The current dominant minority will never allow any majority to take power.

Brush up on your Toynbee.

Feneration is slow death of community and culture.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-02-20   19:39:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: fatidic (#45)

i say that we can/should criticize islam and even ourselves and our own government,

When Muslims are running the Federal Reserve and Homeland Security, we might have something to worry about. As it is, Jews have those august institutions firmly in hand.

Feneration is slow death of community and culture.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-02-20   19:42:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: fatidic (#43)

And rightly so. Lawbreakers should be punished even if they claim their god made them do it. Just as if jews try to stone an adultress and claim religious exemption from murder, they should be held to account by the laws of the land. And if mormons practice polygamy or jehovah's witnesses refuse life-saving blood transfusions to their children, they all should be held to account for the laws they are breaking.

But back to the subject of islam being a religion that has an unusally high number of requirements/tenets that put them at odds with western civilization (deeply flawed though it is), what purpose is served by avoiding this conclusion?

So you advocate thought police? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying? Now it's one thing regarding the issue of minors and their health.. but quite another regarding policing what people think.

What is your purpose in believing that the Constitution should be ignored? Are you in agreement with what Bush said in regard to it? Where does it stop? Buddism is at odds with western thought.. what about Judaism?? What of Shintoism? What of any of dozens of other religions? Where does it end? Once the Pandora's box is opened it can't be closed again.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-20   19:45:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: who knows what evil (#44)

However, many still feel that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I dont believe that in any way shape or form. My issue is one and one only.. The Constitution.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-20   19:47:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: who knows what evil, christine (#44)

NWO and Muslims are BOTH bad news. End of story.

I would make the distinction that practicing, fundamentalist muslims are bad news, though many that i've met are quite likeable and hospitable. I doubt that christine has ever had to live under the oppression that non-muslims experience in the countries where islam rules. It's really weird that islam seems to make otherwise normal, intelligent, good natured people insane when certain buttons are pushed. It's really, really scary.

P.S. moonies, and jehovah's witnesses are also bad news, IMO, but at least they don't want to overthrow the government that i know of or destroy our traditions. We're doing a good enough job of that ourselves and don't need any help, thank you.

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-20   19:47:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: bluegrass (#46)

The current dominant minority will never allow any majority to take power.

You're right...there aren't any examples of that happening anywhere in world history.

who knows what evil  posted on  2006-02-20   19:52:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: fatidic (#50)

...jehovah's witnesses are also bad news...

No kidding...a couple of them tried to burn my house down the other night when I politely declined a copy of Watchtower.

who knows what evil  posted on  2006-02-20   19:55:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: fatidic (#50)

I doubt that christine has ever had to live under the oppression that non-muslims experience in the countries where islam rules. It's really weird that islam seems to make otherwise normal, intelligent, good natured people insane when certain buttons are pushed.

Muslims are muslims because they chose to be.. we have no business involving ourselves in their affairs in those countries whether it be due to what our view of what their countries should be politically or religiously.. Are you in agreement with democracy building in other countries?

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-20   19:55:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Zipporah (#48)

Where did you read that i'm in favor of thought control police? I thought i was consistent and clear in speaking of the harm that comes from practicing, (that's an overt act, doncha know?) a religious tenet that violates the law and the constitution. I've never written, nor has the thought even entered my mind that we should prevent people from thinking and believing what they want (unlike allah's forbidding that a human has the right to follow ones conscience--just had to throw this pesky fact in the sentence).

What did i write that made you think that i think the constitution should be ignored??--i am dylexic you know, so it's possible i turned my words inside out.

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-20   20:00:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: who knows what evil (#52)

...jehovah's witnesses are also bad news...

No kidding...a couple of them tried to burn my house down the other night when I politely declined a copy of Watchtower.

Does anyone know if the JWs received in reparations from the holocaust? I think the Nazis targeted them just because they are sooo annoying. I mean, I imagine they were just as zealous then as now. They're stuck on the # 144,000; a major limitation to their membership, I should think.

"War is a way of shattering to pieces...materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses... too intelligent." ~George Orwell

robin  posted on  2006-02-20   20:01:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: fatidic (#54)

Possibly I'm misundestanding what your position is.. what exactly is it that you are advocating?

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-20   20:02:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: fatidic (#50)

I doubt that christine has ever had to live under the oppression that non-muslims experience in the countries where islam rules.

you're quite right. i live now under the oppression of a corrupt ever increasing tyrannical U S GOVERNMENT though.

christine  posted on  2006-02-20   20:04:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: fatidic (#57)

and, btw, that has nothing to do with any religion.

christine  posted on  2006-02-20   20:05:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: fatidic (#50)

I would make the distinction that practicing, fundamentalist muslims are bad news, though many that i've met are quite likeable and hospitable.

Old joke...Lone Ranger and Tonto, pursued by hundreds of hostile Indians, ride into a canyon, hoping to lose their pursuers among the rocks and caves. It turns out to be a box canyon; no exit, no way out. The Ranger and Tonto dismount, and take refuge among the rocks, but to no avail. Hostile Indians are everywhere; the canyon entrance, the surrounding cliffs; everywhere. The Lone Ranger turns to Tonto and says, "It looks like the end this time, Tonto...we've reached the end of the trail." Tonto replies, "What do you mean 'we', kimosabe?"

who knows what evil  posted on  2006-02-20   20:10:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Zipporah (#53)

Muslims are muslims because they chose to be.. we have no business involving ourselves in their affairs in those countries whether it be due to what our view of what their countries should be politically or religiously.. Are you in agreement with democracy building in other countries?

LOL! You are practically admitting that christians or hindus or budahist have no business living in muslim countries and should accept persecution! What? Now, i do not want to be provacative by putting silly words in your mouth by suggesting that you might approve of muslims' religious duty to treat non-muslims as second-class citizens--sort of an islamic apartheid thing because i don't believe you believe this, do you?

Of course i'm dead set against democracy building in other countries as i beleive in self-determination.

BTW, muslims are not muslims because they chose to be but because allah chooses for them and proclaims that every person is born a muslim but some are led astray by false religions. There is no freedom of choice, conscience, religion or much else in islam, FYI.

fatidic  posted on  2006-02-20   20:10:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: robin (#55)

They're stuck on the # 144,000; a major limitation to their membership, I should think.

LOL!

who knows what evil  posted on  2006-02-20   20:12:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Zipporah (#53)

Are you in agreement with democracy building in other countries?

Not in favor of democracy building, or constitutional republic building, for that matter, anywhere else.

who knows what evil  posted on  2006-02-20   20:14:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: fatidic (#60)

LOL! You are practically admitting that christians or hindus or budahist have no business living in muslim countries and should accept persecution! What? Now, i do not want to be provacative by putting silly words in your mouth by suggesting that you might approve of muslims' religious duty to treat non-muslims as second-class citizens--sort of an islamic apartheid thing because i don't believe you believe this, do you?

Of course i'm dead set against democracy building in other countries as i beleive in self-determination.

BTW, muslims are not muslims because they chose to be but because allah chooses for them and proclaims that every person is born a muslim but some are led astray by false religions. There is no freedom of choice, conscience, religion or much else in islam, FYI.

I say it's none of our business plain and simple.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-20   20:16:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: fatidic (#45)

Are you trying to absolve one lawbreaking group by listing the lawbreaking of other groups?

More like let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I don't have to like every single thing ever done by every Moslem ever to recognise that many Arabs and Iranians have or had been getting screwed over by the West for most of the twentieth century. Iranians don't hate us because of Mohammed or Jesus, they hate us because of the Shah. Would you be blowing up Iraqis if they invaded your town?

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2006-02-20   20:18:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: who knows what evil (#62)

Not in favor of democracy building, or constitutional republic building, for that matter, anywhere else.

Nor I .. these people do want freedom.. to quote Robert Fisk.. freedom from us...

If one reads the story of Briton's experience in Iraq in Lawrence of Arabia.. total parallel to what is happening to us in Iraq.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-20   20:20:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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