[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help] 

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

Try It For 5 Days! - The Most EFFICIENT Way To LOSE FAT

Number Of US Student Visas Issued To Asians Tumbles

Range than U.S HIMARS, Russia Unveils New Variant of 300mm Rocket Launcher on KamAZ-63501 Chassis

Keir Starmer’s Hidden Past: The Cases Nobody Talks About

BRICS Bombshell! Putin & China just DESTROYED the U.S. Dollar with this gold move

Clashes, arrests as tens of thousands protest flood-control corruption in Philippines

The death of Yu Menglong: Political scandal in China (Homo Rape & murder of Actor)

The Pacific Plate Is CRACKING: A Massive Geological Disaster Is Unfolding!

Waste Of The Day: Veterans' Hospital Equipment Is Missing

The Earth Has Been Shaken By 466,742 Earthquakes So Far In 2025

LadyX

Half of the US secret service and every gov't three letter agency wants Trump dead. Tomorrow should be a good show

1963 Chrysler Turbine

3I/ATLAS is Beginning to Reveal What it Truly Is

Deep Intel on the Damning New F-35 Report

CONFIRMED “A 757 did NOT hit the Pentagon on 9/11” says Military witnesses on the scene

NEW: Armed man detained at site of Kirk memorial: Report

$200 Silver Is "VERY ATTAINABLE In Coming Rush" Here's Why - Mike Maloney

Trump’s Project 2025 and Big Tech could put 30% of jobs at risk by 2030

Brigitte Macron is going all the way to a U.S. court to prove she’s actually a woman

China's 'Rocket Artillery 360 Mile Range 990 Pound Warhead

FED's $3.5 Billion Gold Margin Call

France Riots: Battle On Streets Of Paris Intensifies After Macron’s New Move Sparks Renewed Violence

Saudi Arabia Pakistan Defence pact agreement explained | Geopolitical Analysis

Fooling Us Badly With Psyops

The Nobel Prize That Proved Einstein Wrong

Put Castor Oil Here Before Bed – The Results After 7 Days Are Shocking

Sounds Like They're Trying to Get Ghislaine Maxwell out of Prison

Mississippi declared a public health emergency over its infant mortality rate (guess why)

Andy Ngo: ANTIFA is a terrorist organization & Trump will need a lot of help to stop them


Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Viet Dinh vs. Paul Craig Roberts
Source: LRC
URL Source: http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts150.html
Published: Feb 23, 2006
Author: LRC, Viet Dinh, P.C.R.
Post Date: 2006-02-23 06:56:31 by Kamala
Keywords: Roberts, Craig, Viet
Views: 85
Comments: 22

Viet Dinh vs. Paul Craig Roberts

Viet Dinh's Letter

Dear Mr. Roberts,

I write as a bewildered fan. A fan because I truly admire your past service to our nation as a government official and your past contributions to our intellectual culture.

Bewildered because your recent posting on http://LewRockwell.com compares America's defense against terrorism to Nazi Germany and because, even more inexplicably, your opinion appears to be based on total fiction.

I woke up this last Saturday to the following message on my email:

"Last week's annual Conservative Political Action Conference signaled the transformation of American conservatism into brownshirtism. A former Justice Department official named Viet Dinh got a standing ovation when he told the CPAC audience that the rule of law mustn't get in the way of President Bush protecting Americans from Osama bin Laden"

Paul Craig Roberts, 'If you are so enamored with totalitarianism, maybe you ought to return to your ancestral home.'

I resisted the temptation to dismiss the message as another bigoted attack and asked for a source citation to what I assumed to be a made-up quotation. No reply. So I researched and to my surprise discovered that the cowardly email had indeed quoted your post on http://LewRockwell.com.

As it is obvious that you are writing without any first-hand knowledge of the facts, let me be very clear about what was said and what was not said. I did not, nor did anyone at CPAC to my knowledge, say that "the rule of law mustn't get in the way of President Bush protecting Americans from Osama bin Laden." Nor was there any standing ovation. I would have thought, before your post, that an accusation against an individual, an entire audience, and indeed a nation's anti-terror strategy of being akin to Nazism would require a bit more responsibility to the facts.

Assuming some fealty to the truth remains, let me recount what I said during my debate with Bob Barr at CPAC. I acknowledged that conservatism derives from a tradition of healthy skepticism of governmental power. However, I said, "At times that healthy skepticism must unfortunately yield to a greater threat to our national security." I posit that the question is not whether the President is above the law but rather whether anyone, including Congress, is above the Constitution, and specifically noted that "no one without operational knowledge of the details of the NSA program can come to a definitive conclusion as to its propriety or legality."

Finally, I concluded, "At this time, the greatest threat to American liberty comes from al Qaeda and its associates who would seek to destroy this nation, not from the brave men and women who defend America and her people."

If you disagree with any of the above points, I would love to engage you in a conversation. If you were there and differ in your recollection, I would ask to see your notes or better, that you check your facts with Bob Barr. If you were not at CPAC and did not observe that which you purported to describe, I hope you will come clean.

But nothing – nothing, sir – justifies your spurious accusation of "brownshirtism" against anyone, least of all against one who has suffered the tyranny of totalitarianism.

Thank you. Viet D. Dinh

Paul Craig Roberts's Response

I stand by my characterization of Viet Dinh's remarks in his debate with Bob Barr at the recent CPAC annual meeting and by my statement that conservatism has morphed into brownshirtism.  

Viet Dinh is one of the authors of the so-called "PATRIOT Act," an anti-American piece of legislation recognized throughout the civil libertarian community as an assault on American civil liberties.  Former Republican congressman Bob Barr has fought to restrain the act's more egregious intrusions into the constitutionally protected privacy of American citizens. 

Even Republican US senators, such as Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter, are concerned about the Bush regime's proclivity for warrantless spying in violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.  Senator Specter is drafting legislation with which he hopes to curtail President Bush's illegal activity. As far as I can tell, the legal community recognizes that Bush's warrantless spying is illegal, except for members of the Republican Federalist Society, a group of lawyers dedicated to concentrating unaccountable powers in the executive.

There are several news reports on the CPAC conference and the debate between Bob Barr and Viet Dinh.  My observations follow from these news reports.

Writing in the Washington Post on February 11, "Bob Barr, Bane of the Right?," Post reporter Dana Milbank, for example, reports that Barr asked the CPAC audience, "Are we losing our lodestar, which is the Bill of Rights" to the Bush regime's zeal in its war against terror?   

Barr confronted the conservatives: "Do we truly remain a society that believes that every president must abide by the law of this country" or "are we in danger of putting allegiance to party ahead of allegiance to principle?"

Barr's questions were greeted with silence followed by booing.  According to Milbank, "Dinh brought the crowd to a raucous ovation when he judged: 'The threat to Americans' liberty today comes from al Qaeda and its associates and the people who would destroy America and her people, not the brave men and women who work to defend this country!'"

How else are we to interpret Viet Dinh's words?  Clearly, he is saying that it is more important for Bush to seize powers to protect America from Osama bin Laden than to obey the law and abide by the separation of powers.  The entire position of the Bush regime is that protecting the country from terrorists is more important than loyalty to habeas corpus, the Geneva Conventions, the proscription against torture, open government, and an accountable executive. Dinh himself endorsed the Führer Principle and urged it upon the conservatives when he declared, "The conservative movement has a healthy skepticism of governmental power, but at times, unfortunately, that healthy skepticism needs to yield."  Yield to what? To the Leader who works "to defend this country." 

That's exactly what Hitler said following the Reichstag fire, a staged incident that he used to remove himself from accountability.

Milbank notes that by turning the debate into the issue of who do you fear – George Bush or Osama bin Laden, Viet Dinh employed "the sort of tactic that has intimidated Democrats and the last few libertarian Republicans who question the program's legality."

Milbank reports that Viet Dinh's tactic did not work on Bob Barr who nailed Dinh: "That, folks, was a red herring.  This debate is very simple: It is a debate about whether or not we will remain a nation subject to and governed by the rule of law or the whim of men."

In fairness to Viet Dinh, coming as he does as an immigrant from a country without a constitutional tradition, without a Bill of Rights, and without a judiciary empowered to enforce civil liberties, Dinh may only naturally confuse patriotism with loyalty to leader. Trust the Leader, Dinh told the conservatives.  They seemed to agree.  This certainly is not America's way.

Destroying America does not mean blowing up buildings.  It means destroying the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the separation of powers.  Al Qaeda is powerless to bring about such destruction.  Only our own government, enabled by the public's and Viet Dinh's and Attorney General Gonzales' endorsements of the Führer Principle can destroy America.

February 23, 2006 Dr. Roberts [send him mail] is Chairman of the Institute for Political Economy and Research Fellow at the Independent Institute. He is a former associate editor of the Wall Street Journal, former contributing editor for National Review, and a former assistant secretary of the U.S. Treasury. He is the co-author of The Tyranny of Good Intentions. Copyright © 2006 http://LewRockwell.com Paul Craig Roberts Archives   

 Find this article at: http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts150.html

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: Kamala (#0)

"At times that healthy skepticism must unfortunately yield to a greater threat to our national security."

Viet Dinh is invited to leave my country and return to his.

"I aim to misbehave" -- Mal Reynolds, Firefly

YertleTurtle  posted on  2006-02-23   7:11:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: YertleTurtle (#1)

Viet Dinh is invited to leave my country and return to his.

my thoughts exactly. This Viet Dinh fellow is a communist who was born in Vietnam. now he writes anti-american laws at the highest level of our government.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-02-23   8:07:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Kamala (#0)

That's exactly what Hitler said following the Reichstag fire, a staged incident that he used to remove himself from accountability.

*******************

Bob Barr who nailed Dinh: "That, folks, was a red herring. This debate is very simple: It is a debate about whether or not we will remain a nation subject to and governed by the rule of law or the whim of men.

How many Americans even KNOW about the Reichstag fire?? I'll venture to say very few Americans ever heard of it..

Barr deserved the applause the faux conservatives that appalled Dinh need to pack up and leave with Dinh.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-23   9:12:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Kamala (#0)

In fairness to Viet Dinh, coming as he does as an immigrant from a country without a constitutional tradition, without a Bill of Rights, and without a judiciary empowered to enforce civil liberties, Dinh may only naturally confuse patriotism with loyalty to leader. Trust the Leader, Dinh told the conservatives. They seemed to agree. This certainly is not America's way.

This is the beauty of 3rd world immigrants, even those with degrees. I work with a few, and this is true. (as a side note, they also think Microsoft is wonderful).

That's exactly what Hitler said following the Reichstag fire, a staged incident that he used to remove himself from accountability.

I asked a fellow American at work to google the Reichstag fire, he had clearly never heard of it. I also asked him to check out what Hitler's excuse was for invading Poland.

So many Americans are just too distracted by their daily lives, it is up to all of us to reach out at try to get them to think a little more; to encourage them to watch the 9/11 videos, to listen to Alex Jones, to search for themselves on the internet. Get them thinking, not arguing and debating defensively when they do not have any of the facts (but think they do).

Which reminds me, I must ask these coworkers what they think about the ports/Dubai headline. The admin's position should really confuse them.

"War is a way of shattering to pieces...materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses... too intelligent." ~George Orwell

robin  posted on  2006-02-23   9:13:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Zipporah (#3)

How many Americans even KNOW about the Reichstag fire?? I'll venture to say very few Americans ever heard of it..

I was typing the same point, they simply do not. I've tested my coworkers, I get blank stares. So, rather than debate I just ask them to google it and a couple other things.

"War is a way of shattering to pieces...materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses... too intelligent." ~George Orwell

robin  posted on  2006-02-23   9:14:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: robin (#5)

I was typing the same point, they simply do not. I've tested my coworkers, I get blank stares. So, rather than debate I just ask them to google it and a couple other things.

I know.. the ignorance of the people IMO is a planned thing.. makes them so easily led. Sometime ago I posted on another forum something about the Reichstag fire in regard to a 'terrorist' attack.. and oh my.. I got it with both barrels.. idiots. I think that is the best approach robin.. you can't tell them with their brains saturated with propaganda.. let them look it up and come to the conclusions.. the Northwoods document as I said in another thread was the turning point for me on 9/11.. it wasnt someone telling me.. they just said read this..

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-23   9:38:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Zipporah (#6)

the Northwoods document as I said in another thread was the turning point for me on 9/11.. it wasnt someone telling me.. they just said read this..

Yes, that's the best way, not with long debates.

And it doesn't take much propaganda for the X-generation, raised on video games, MTV and HBO. Life's a party, don't you know.

"War is a way of shattering to pieces...materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses... too intelligent." ~George Orwell

robin  posted on  2006-02-23   9:46:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Kamala (#0)

How else are we to interpret Viet Dinh's words? Clearly, he is saying that it is more important for Bush to seize powers to protect America from Osama bin Laden than to obey the law and abide by the separation of powers. The entire position of the Bush regime is that protecting the country from terrorists is more important than loyalty to habeas corpus, the Geneva Conventions, the proscription against torture, open government, and an accountable executive. Dinh himself endorsed the Führer Principle and urged it upon the conservatives when he declared, "The conservative movement has a healthy skepticism of governmental power, but at times, unfortunately, that healthy skepticism needs to yield." Yield to what? To the Leader who works "to defend this country."

Bush administration holds: (1) protecting the country is more important than the rule of law; and (2) allowing business deals is more important than protecting the country. From (1) and (2), it logically follows that (3) allowing business deals is more important than the rule of law.

aristeides  posted on  2006-02-23   10:26:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Kamala (#0)

People like Viet Dinh, John Yoo, and Alberto Gonzales seem unable to understand the Anglo-American tradition of the rule of law. But even worse than them are the people like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Addington that make use of their deeply flawed legal reasoning.

aristeides  posted on  2006-02-23   10:28:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: aristeides (#9)

People like Viet Dinh, John Yoo, and Alberto Gonzales seem unable to understand the Anglo-American tradition of the rule of law. But even worse than them are the people like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Addington that make use of their deeply flawed legal reasoning.

That former group should ask themselves why their parents were forced to emigrate to our once free country. No point in asking them to study the Magna Carta and the American Revolution, as they must have done so, but entirely missed the point.

The latter should be hung at the nearest lamppost for crimes against humanity and treason against the United States (it is necessary to specify the nation, as they are no doubt considered heroes elsewhere).

"War is a way of shattering to pieces...materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses... too intelligent." ~George Orwell

robin  posted on  2006-02-23   10:37:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Kamala (#0)

I posit that the question is not whether the President is above the law but rather whether anyone, including Congress, is above the Constitution, and specifically noted that "no one without operational knowledge of the details of the NSA program can come to a definitive conclusion as to its propriety or legality."

Could someone interpret this for me? What the hell does this mean? It sounds like he's saying that the only people who can judge whether a spying program is legal are the spies that are doing it. Is that a correct interpretation of his rather bizarre logic?

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-23   10:39:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: mehitable (#11)

He's saying that he trusts Bush and the administration to do the right thing, and the rest of us should trust them as well.

What person in his right mind would still trust this bunch?

And anyway our whole system of government, with its separation of powers and checks and balances, is based precisely on distrust of the people in government.

aristeides  posted on  2006-02-23   10:45:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: mehitable (#11)

It sounds like he's saying that the only people who can judge whether a spying program is legal are the spies that are doing it. Is that a correct interpretation of his rather bizarre logic?

Yep, That is exactly what he is saying. Trust us, go back to watching Wheel of Fortune.

tom007  posted on  2006-02-23   10:46:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: aristeides, all (#9)

People like Viet Dinh, John Yoo, and Alberto Gonzales seem unable to understand the Anglo-American tradition of the rule of law.

I am not a xenophobe nor am I opposed to legal immigration. However, I think this is a very important point. Liberals (and now neo-cons) like to pretend that all people are the same and there are no signficant differences between groups or nations of people. THis is obviously and demonstrably untrue, and one of the major differences we can see is in political traditions. The American experiment grew out of a particular Anglo Protestant CULTURE..it did not grow out of a Hispanic culture, or an Asian culture, or an African culture. One must wonder why? So in diluting and perhaps eventually, exterminating (or certainly relegating to a minority) those who might innately understand that Anglo culture because they were raised in it, we are also hastening the deterioration of the Anglo political and governmental philosphies that emerge from THAT culture.

I don't think Viet Dinh gets it. Maybe his children or grandchildren will. But this is why foreign born Americans are not allowed to be President - they are not yet fully American. I'm not sure how many generations it takes if that happens at all.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-23   10:46:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: mehitable (#14)

aristeides: People like Viet Dinh, John Yoo, and Alberto Gonzales seem unable to understand the Anglo-American tradition of the rule of law.

mehitable: I am not a xenophobe nor am I opposed to legal immigration. However, I think this is a very important point.

As I posted to aristeides, they should ask themselves why their parents were forced to emigrate to our once free country. No point in asking them to study the Magna Carta and the American Revolution, as they must have done so, but entirely missed the point.

"War is a way of shattering to pieces...materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses... too intelligent." ~George Orwell

robin  posted on  2006-02-23   10:50:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: mehitable (#11)

I posit that the question is not whether the President is above the law but rather whether anyone, including Congress, is above the Constitution, and specifically noted that "no one without operational knowledge of the details of the NSA program can come to a definitive conclusion as to its propriety or legality."

Could someone interpret this for me? What the hell does this mean? It sounds like he's saying that the only people who can judge whether a spying program is legal are the spies that are doing it. Is that a correct interpretation of his rather bizarre logic?

Effectively the passage says that the Constitution is above itself, since it simultaneously prevents Congress from knowing the "operational knowledge of the details of the NSA program" and from judging the propriety or legality of the program. It makes the Constitution into an abstraction that on the one hand requires knowledge of "operational details" of a program which may violate it and on the other hand denies anyone but the operators of the program knowledge of those details (because they're "classified," we have to "protect the American people," you "don't want the terrorists to win, do you?" etc). This logical loop is even beyond Orwellian.

You can't win. You can't break even. You can't get out of the game.

Peetie Wheatstraw  posted on  2006-02-23   10:52:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#16)

In other words....IT'S JUST A GODAMNED PIECE OF PAPER!!!.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-23   11:01:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: mehitable (#17)

If it's just a GD piece of paper, why do they make so much use of the argument that it's unconstitutional when the Congress tries to limit the president's powers as commander in chief?

aristeides  posted on  2006-02-23   11:04:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: robin, all (#15)

You're absolutely right, but I think one point that these folks would be loathe to admit is that our govt structure and laws and rights and documents and history emerge from a specific ethnic culture to which they are not party, and to which they would have to immerse themselves to truly understand the concepts. Otherwise, as you so well note, their ancestors would not have had to leave their respective homelands as they could have created the same form of govt over there.

It's not merely some kind of random accident that produced the American experiment - it's not just some bunch of people who just happened to gather together and came up with these ideas. Otherwise we'd see the same or a similiar phenomena popping up randomly in other areas. Our govt and political structure and laws emerged from Anglo culture.

But of course, I am insane - everyone knows that Anglos have no culture - only ethnic people with colorful clothes and spicy food have culture. We just go around destroying things and converting people and tearing down empires. We've never created anything worthwhile on our own.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-23   11:06:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: aristeides (#18)

Because if it's just a goddamned piece of paper, they can pretend that it means anything and nothing - they are not considering the words actually written upon that piece of paper. The paper itself is like some kind of false idol to them - something to burn incense before to legitimize their own evil.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-23   11:08:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: aristeides (#18)

If it's just a GD piece of paper, why do they make so much use of the argument that it's unconstitutional when the Congress tries to limit the president's powers as commander in chief?

What unser geliebter Fuehrer meant was that the Constitution is a goddam piece of toilet paper, to throw away after his use. Once the paramount "Commander-in-chief" provision of the Constitution is triggered by the indefinite state of war which we're now in, the rest of the Constitution becomes mere compost.

You can't win. You can't break even. You can't get out of the game.

Peetie Wheatstraw  posted on  2006-02-23   11:19:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#21)

Constitution is a goddam piece of toilet paper, to throw away after his use.

LOL!!! never quite thought about it that way.. but hey you're right..

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-23   11:23:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest


[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help]