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Title: Rutgers bars band (PokerFace) after critics object
Source: Home News Tribune Online
URL Source: http://www.thnt.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a ... =/20060222/NEWS01/602220401&Se
Published: Feb 27, 2006
Author: Chris Jordan
Post Date: 2006-02-27 09:09:06 by christine
Keywords: (PokerFace), Rutgers, critics
Views: 6667
Comments: 86

The controversial band Poker Face, labeled by critics as anti-Semitic and racist, will not be performing at this year's state Libertarian Party convention, scheduled for Saturday at the Rutgers University Inn and Conference Center in New Brunswick.

The performance has been canceled because University Inn managers are enforcing the Inn's rule that states no live music will be performed while other events are taking place there, said Ray Caprio, Rutgers University vice president of Continuous Education and Outreach. Caprio acknowledged that a letter critical of the band's appearance was sent to Rutgers president Richard L. McCormick.

Poker Face performed at the same convention in the same venue last year.

Critics of the group said the performance was called off after protesters — chiefly activist Daryle Lamont Jenkins of the Jersey City-based anti-racist One People's Project — voiced concerns about the group's message.

"Just because you have the freedom of speech doesn't mean you have the right to be heard if you're intolerant," said Jenkins, a former New Brunswick resident. "Anti-Semitic people or Nazis always say they have a right to believe what they wish.

"We're talking about people who are trying to deny that right to others."

Poker Face's "songs are about love, life and liberty with powerful and poignant lyrics and a rich sound reminiscent of Boston and Pink Floyd," a Libertarian National Party press release stated.

The forum section on the band's Web site, http://www.pokerface.com, contains articles posted — but not authored — by lead singer Paul Topete. The articles call Martin Luther King Jr. a Communist, speculate on whether Israel had a hand in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, and provide a list of Jewish CEOs of media companies in the United States and Britain.

Topete said the band is drawing fire for speaking openly about controversial subjects.

"We expose Zionist crimes and if you expose Zionist crimes, you're an anti-Semite," Topete said. "I can expose black crimes, I can expose Hispanic crimes, but if I expose Zionist crimes, people are so Semite-sensitive that you can't expose them, because right away you get labeled an anti-Semite."

Barry Weinstein of New York is a supporter of the band who accompanied Topete to a Home News Tribune interview in New Brunswick yesterday.

"I'm Jewish, and I don't find Paul Topete or the band to be anti-Semitic," Weinstein said. "What I find is an inquiring mind looking to find out what is going on."

Topete, who is strongly anti-illegal immigration, also denied the charges of racism, stating he's part Mexican.

Topete said he plans to address the convention on Saturday about the controversy if his appearance doesn't conflict with a new show the band just booked for that day. Topete declined to say where the new show was to take place.

Tom Howard of Edison, who has been following the band's career, has been outspoken in his criticism.

"The thing about the band is that they're not explicitly white power or blatantly racist, a band like Poker Face tries to hide behind a lot of other things," Howard said. "They try to hide it by putting it in very mainstream packaging but it also sends a very wrong message."

Jeffrey Pawlowski of Sayreville, who ran for governor of New Jersey on the Libertarian Party ticket last year, said he was not aware of the controversy, but said if he found Poker Face to be anti-Semitic or racist, he would confront the band.

"I personally hope it's not true," Pawlowski said. "Their music is inspiring and they played for free."

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#1. To: christine (#0)

activist Daryle Lamont Jenkins of the Jersey City-based anti-racist One People's Project

Why am I not shocked? I met Poker Face at the FReeper MFJ in '98. Nice guys; good music. It's a shame cowardly whites simply don't reject Jenkens & company.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-02-27   9:40:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: christine (#0)

Just a reminder: Paul will be on with Michael Collins Piper tonight at 7 EST. @ http://www.RBNLIVE.com.

Ground_Control  posted on  2006-02-27   10:34:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Ground_Control, pokerkid (#2)

Poker Face bump!

christine  posted on  2006-02-27   13:32:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: christine, Ground_Control (#3)

This is a repost from an email I sent to a friend that was PO-ed that we were being attacked by the some are more special then others club...

Please flag others.... pk

SPREAD THIS FAR AND WIDE.

OPP - One Peoples Project was sicked on us by jewish supremacist groups like the ADL, SPLC and SWC according to one article. Below at the end of this rant are the 3 OPP Hit pieces on us. If you goto their site, you will see they attack proAmerica groups like the minutemen by calling them the minuteKLAN.

WE have had 3 hit pieces done by Daryle lamont jenkins of the One Peoples Party in the last Month. We have been a focus of the ADLs attention/affection for sometime, but increased when our support for the jailed Revisionist Historians became very vocal. These Historians have been picked up over the last six months from around the world, charged and jailed for their thought crimes for having a difference of opinion about the holocaust, or as we like to say HOLOHAUX.

As an American who values his freedoms, I have been following the drama over the holocaust industry, as Norm Finklesten puts it and i agree with, for many years now. With the arrest of over a dozen historians of the likes of David Irving who was just sentenced to 3 years for going astray of the holocaust orthodoxy, this is now becoming THEE free Speach/Free Thought issue of the new millenium, which is affecting the world and shortly this country if folks like Sen Kennedy gets his HATE crimes BILL thru.

I dont care how people might FEEL about this issue, because a court is NOT a place to adjucate feelings. The courts are to be used for transgressions for violations of RIGHTS and property damage. Like Marley said, no victim No crime.

Right now there is only ONE historical event that NO ONE can talk about, print their viewpoints about, that can veer one iota from what the keepers of this Orthodoxy is. If you dont regurgitate it word for word (which keeps changing over the years) then you will be brought before a German/Austrian/Israeli/Kanada court for your Thought/Speach crimes.

If you dont believe in Christ, thats OK you dont go to jail, nor is any Christian calling for laws like that. Nor should anyone go to jail. But.... diverge from the holocaust script and they will lock you up for years. There are thousands of folks in jail because of their thought/speach crimes.

-Plenty of people, including Jews and Israelis, deny the Turkish genocide against the Armenians in World War One, without any legal consequences. So why does this EVENT merit this.

As an American THIS APPALLS ME. If we allow for this crap to stand then other issues/ideas will be outlawed like questioning your governments crimes against we the people. Who gets to play censor god. Once the door opens down this road, there is NO turning back. What has ALWAYS set America apart from the rest of the world is our First Amendment RIGHTS, which as a patriotic America First band we support just like the 2nd Amendment in the past. Its not a popular stand to take, but white folk trying to stop this get labeled the racist/anti semite much easier then this government labeled minority -me the mexican - hyphen - American

OPP are also harrasing the minutemen, they call them the minuteKLAN, they also hate Ann Coulter, Joe Paterno, CPAC and a host of other conservative organizations. They provide support the african-american Mummia who killed the white cop in philly.

We just played at the PA Minutemen meeting this past saturday Feb 25th at the Crowne Plaza hotel in King of Prussia PA. Had 12 of the America hating pro Marxist pro Illegal immigration OPP gang parading around outside of the parking lot. Chanting MinuteKLAN and anti-pokerface diddys.. :D

While there, we got to meet up with our friends Chris Simcox founder of the minutemen and JJ Johnson from SierraTimes who was doing a remote broadcast for wireless stream network. JJ interviewed a bunch of the commies, where they admitted to being communists, and that they respected no boundaries, and that workers of the world have a right to yours and mine jobs.

It has been a pretty interesting week working up to the weekend. OPP and the mainstream media tried to make us non-people by slandering us with terms that do not fit us, and expected us to cower over their much overabused expression of... you are a RACIST... You are an anti-semite... bow down on our alter of holohauxianity... yada, yada, yada. Since then, the support we have been getting is overwhelminly positive. People/Groups that never heard about us, or paid much attention are voicing their support in our stand for what is right. Please spread the word amongst the freedom loving people that you know. This will help expose our detractors for the America haters, 5th column cuddlers that they are.

When I went tuesday for the interview with the NJ Home News Tribune. I took along one of my jewish friends (who voluteered to go as soon as he heard this crap was going on) to address the charges of being an anti-semite ( one who HATES jews) I dont hate ANY person, or group, until they ask for special rights or priveledges. When calling them out on it, this is how they react. When Chris North sat down with Barry and I, the look on his face was precious, he wasnt expecting that. WE expose several items like Black Reparations, Sending illegal immigrants home and several other issues we focus on as a band, but it is only when you step on supremacist jew toes the shizen hits the fan.

I am being called a racist because I support control of our borders. If the FEDS or the States arent going to do their job to stop the illegal invasion, then groups like the minutemen are stepping up to the plate to do their job for them. They have tried to call Chris Simcox a racist, an anti-Mexican.. Last year I went lobbying with Chris Simcox, John Clarke, JJ Johnson (black American from the militia days and Sierra Tiems) and myself to provide a colored front so that the senators couldnt be swayed by the lies that chris or his organization are racist.. Oh did i tell you I am half mexican.. Love Mexicans. But love them to stay home where they should be instead of the NAFTA economic refugees that they are and are only looking for a livable wage they cant get in Mexico.

Who ever is Daryle Lamont Jenkins handler didnt inform him completely to my back ground. I have been doing several interviews this past week, and am trying to get a debate at Rutgers thru the Libertarian Partys on Campus group to debate this dood, to show the tudents who the real America Hater is, and how his helping the illegals is paramount to treason by providing comfort and aid to this potential 5th column being groomed for a possible civil war.

Over the years i have been out spoken about jewish supremacist isues that affect our country. I know that it puts me on the chopping block by those that have been programmed with a semite sensitivity like pavlovian response to cry out when any mention of the word jew or jewish is uttered. The programming is so deep that people shut down their rational thinking process, and just emote, feeling too much that their brains shut down for any possible discussion of the subjects at hand.

Its funny or sad i dont know which.. I can have some of the most honest discussions with my American jewish friends or Israeli friends over many of these same subjects. Some of them we agree to disagree with, but the last thing they will say is that I hate jews. I dont. I hate the Supremacism that some do, and then gets a pass in the press. Every other supremacism gets exposed and we all clap. But expose the action of some groups like the ADL/SWC/SPLC AIPAC/WJC etc... and the false charges come flying out. It is to such a degree that the term is bantered about so much , its like peter crying wolf, and losing its effect, that when a real case of it happens, it wont be dealt with the way that it should be.

Christine - you probably saw this on Michael Riveros site http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ . I had asked him a few days ago to post this and he was more then happy to provide the support. Since that time the tide has been turning in our favor both in the press, radio as well as the RUTGERS student body.

If we dont make a stand today here and now regardless if some peoples sensibilities are hurt, then the America of tomorrow will be looking a lot different. If not me now, then who will do it later.

Free speach is not always pretty speach, I may disagree with what you say, but I will support your Right to say it. peace paul from poker face

ps Regarding the HOLOCAUST - I/PF do not disagree that some jews died during the war 129,000 according to the IRC (International Red Cross), nor that millions of european lives where put in upheaval, but... a final solution has NEVER been found in any of the German documents. They have tried to make some things say what it doesnt. But what has been found and buried are items like the HAAVARA agreement ( I wish that everyone would look this up and read for yourselves what is NOT taught to us) the Haavara agreement was signed by Hitler and the zionist leadership that allowed German jews to emmigrate to Palestine between 1933-1938 where over half a million german jews took them up on it and where allowed to take ALL of their belongings with them. Also if they had a factory in Germany, they were helped to create the same factory in Israel.

After learning this, does hitler wanting to kill jews make any sense??? uh- NO, or how about the first time the cry of a holocaust was put out right after WW1, thats right 1 not 2. World Jewry or Zionism have been pushing for the jews to move to Palestine/Israel since before the 20th century. A good book to read about this true history is here: Volume 6: Don Heddesheimer, The First Holocaust. Jewish Fund Raising Campaigns With Holocaust Claims During And After World War One Supported with many publications, in particular from The New York Times, the author shows that between 1916 and the late 1920s, mainly American Jewish organizations were claiming that up to six million Jews(!) would suffer terribly in Eastern Europe and would face a holocaust if they did not receive massive aid. http://www.vho.org/store/USA/bresult.php?ID=80

What I have found out in this life is that TRUTH needs No help from the law, it just needs exposure. ONLY LIES NEED HELP from the law with the threat of imprisonment to boot.

** The gist of this controversy: is not "denial" of Nazi persecution of some Jews but the effort to strong-arm how that persecution is presented and discussed. The "Holocaust" industry has set itself up as a global "Ministry of Truth," with the power to dictate "newspeak," put discussions down the "memory hole," and declare recalcitrants "unpersons." It has positioned itself as an enemy of freedom, not as a friend of the Jews.**

let the truth chips fall where they may. There is much I can comment, but I wanted to reply to you before I went to practice tonight. Again, NO ONE IN A FREE SOCIETY GOES TO JAIL BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION. NO ONE. -------------------------------------- Latest from the Zundel Camp: Earths number 1 public enemy in the eyes of the Censors of HISTORY

Good Morning from the Zundelsite:

THIS IS A MOST SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENT!

If ever you needed a sample of media disinformation, the New York article below is blatant, in-your-face chutzpah disinformation!

I am sure that some of our more scholarly oriented revisionists will have a thing or two to say about this piece of "news" - I will merely give you a taste for what this is really all about from what I gathered in conversation with Ernst.

When I first met Ernst and started to learn about the vast deception called the "Holocaust", I asked him: "If you had only one wish to be fulfilled to clean up this mess, what would that be?" and his reply was: "To have the records of Arolsen be open to the public. We could settle this matter once and for all. With computer data bases, it could be done in a few weeks!"

As I heard later it from others, it is Revisionists who want the Arolsen documents be made available. It is the Holocaust Lobby that has blocked access since 1979 - the year the Holocaust-debunking Institute for Historical Review was founded!

Why are they clamouring NOW to have them be opened? So they can get their hands on the vital statistics of what really did and did not happen - and maybe start a little accidental fire? My guess is that either Ernst or Germar Rudolf pushed to have those archives be opened!

By the way, Biedermann testified in Ernst's 1988 Holocaust Trial in Toronto, an excerpt of which is on the Zundelsite, http://www.zundelsite.org/english/dsmrd/dsmrd10biedermann.html

Read what that lying rag, the New York Times, has to say:

U.S. - German Flare-Up Over Vast Nazi Camp Archives http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/20/international/europe/20germany.html

I never mean to hurt anyones feelings, especially in regards to the holocaust. But.... feelings get trumped when Rights are attacked. ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Below is some of the background to this crap:

This is when the OPP Drama began: Thursday, 12 January 2006

1st OPP hitpiece FREE REPUBLIC'S ANTI-SEMITIC HOUSE BAND POKER FACE SCHEDULED TO PERFORM AT LIBERTARIAN CONVENTION http://www.onepeoplesproject.com/site/index.php?option=com _content&task=view&id=905&Itemid=2.

2nd OPP hitpiece, Wednesday, 15 February 2006 Basic reprint of the first one, except with Zach Morris name attached to it POKER FACE GETTING A HAND DEALT TO THEM BY RUTGERS STUDENTS http://www.onepeoplesproject.com/site/index.php?option=com_ content&task=view&id=917&Itemid=2.

3rd OPP hit piece Tuesday, 21 February 2006 POKER FACE GIG AT RUTGERS UNIVERSITY CANCELED AFTER STUDENTS MOUNT PROTEST - DLJ has so many so called facts, just plain wrong. His zionazi handlers arent advising him to well. http://www.onepeoplesproject.com/site/index.php?option=com_ content&task=view&id=921&Itemid=2.

Poker Face - on the front line battle for our freedoms House Band of the 2nd American Revolution we all know is coming because of the treason in DC http://www.pokerface.com

pokerkid  posted on  2006-02-27   15:37:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: pokerkid (#4)

You were silenced on a technicality.

The LP should do whatever it can in securing future events to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Is anyone really suprised by this? I know I'm not.

Rock on bro!

JRadcliffe  posted on  2006-02-27   15:48:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: pokerkid (#4)

You guys are getting a lot of publicity for this. Congrats.

:: 4um's 'ARG List' :: Awoken Research Group ::

valis  posted on  2006-02-27   15:49:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: JRadcliffe, valis (#5)

Like brother GroundControl said above, I will be interviewed by Michael Collins Piper tonight on the best freedom Network RBN tonight at 7pm EST. I will be at practice tonight with the rest of the band when we call in for our little chat with our long time friend and supporter of our music MCP.

Hope you folks can tune in and call up. peace paul

Poker Face - on the front line battle for our freedoms House Band of the 2nd American Revolution we all know is coming because of the treason in DC http://www.pokerface.com

pokerkid  posted on  2006-02-27   16:43:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: pokerkid (#7)

I will definitely tune in. RBN is bookmarked and I always listen to their programs.

In speaking of the Truth, Henry David Thoreau once said: "Any Truth is better than make-believe ... rather than love, than money, than fame, give me Truth."

JRadcliffe  posted on  2006-02-27   16:59:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: pokerkid, buckeroo, wbales, Elliott Jackalope, Bayonne, Jethro Tull, Zipporah, robin, Eoghan, Dakmar, buffycat. Lady X, Arete, mirage, Tauzero, abbracadabra, angle, aristeides, MUDDOG, Esso, Hmmmmm, bluegrass, Brian S, wacsog10, dinglebert, ALL (#4)

If we dont make a stand today here and now regardless if some peoples sensibilities are hurt, then the America of tomorrow will be looking a lot different. If not me now, then who will do it later.

See Paul's post above.

christine  posted on  2006-02-27   17:01:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: All, Poker Face Music Video (#9)

Click here

christine  posted on  2006-02-27   17:06:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: pokerkid (#7)

Hi Paul...glad you made it to the 4. I'll be tune in this eve. Thanks! -amalgamy.

“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"

Eoghan  posted on  2006-02-27   17:17:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: christine (#9)

Like brother GroundControl said above, I will be interviewed by Michael Collins Piper tonight on the best freedom Network RBN tonight at 7pm EST. I will be at practice tonight with the rest of the band when we call in for our little chat with our long time friend and supporter of our music MCP.

Thanks for the ping.

"This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector." ~Plato

robin  posted on  2006-02-27   17:24:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: christine (#9)

Agreed 100%. There is no "right not to be offended" and there is no "right to be heard" - but there is a right to speak - and be responsible for one's speech. The proper response to speech is, of course, more speech....

Now how do we play "censor the censors" in this day and age?

mirage  posted on  2006-02-27   17:29:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: pokerkid (#4)

If we dont make a stand today here and now regardless if some peoples sensibilities are hurt, then the America of tomorrow will be looking a lot different. If not me now, then who will do it later.

Right on, brother! I've been spreading the word on NOLAJBS and LF(betwen mysql errors). I will try to get through on the phone lines tonight. Peace!

Ground_Control  posted on  2006-02-27   18:24:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Ground_Control (#14)

Are you still able to get on LF? I stopped trying.

In speaking of the Truth, Henry David Thoreau once said: "Any Truth is better than make-believe ... rather than love, than money, than fame, give me Truth."

JRadcliffe  posted on  2006-02-27   19:32:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: christine (#9)

Pocker Face is on RBN right now!

I don't know how to flag everyone yet. *embarassment*

In speaking of the Truth, Henry David Thoreau once said: "Any Truth is better than make-believe ... rather than love, than money, than fame, give me Truth."

JRadcliffe  posted on  2006-02-27   19:43:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: JRadcliffe (#16)

I don't know how to flag everyone yet. *embarassment*

I was just listening to RBN..

To flag everyone ..just reply to yourself it automatically will be to 'all' or you can type in something you want to alert everyone to..

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-27   20:00:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Zipporah (#17)

To flag everyone ..just reply to yourself it automatically will be to 'all' or you can type in something you want to alert everyone to..

Thanks. That's easy enough.

In speaking of the Truth, Henry David Thoreau once said: "Any Truth is better than make-believe ... rather than love, than money, than fame, give me Truth."

JRadcliffe  posted on  2006-02-27   20:02:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: All (#16)

Pocker Face is on RBN right now!

In speaking of the Truth, Henry David Thoreau once said: "Any Truth is better than make-believe ... rather than love, than money, than fame, give me Truth."

JRadcliffe  posted on  2006-02-27   20:03:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: pokerkid (#4)

Excellent, informative, alarming post.

In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.

wbales  posted on  2006-02-27   20:13:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: christine, pokerkid, buckeroo, wbales, Elliott Jackalope, Bayonne, Jethro Tull, Zipporah, robin, Eoghan, Dakmar, buffycat. Lady X, Arete, mirage, Tauzero, abbracadabra, angle, aristeides, MUDDOG, Esso, Hmmmmm, bluegrass, Brian S, wacsog10, dinglebert, AL (#9)

Who is Daryle Lamont Jenkins

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-02-27   21:29:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Jethro Tull, christine, pokerkid, buckeroo, wbales, Elliott Jackalope, Bayonne, Jethro Tull, Zipporah, robin, Eoghan, Dakmar, buffycat. Lady X, Arete, mirage, Tauzero, abbracadabra, angle, aristeides, MUDDOG, Esso, Hmmmmm, bluegrass, Brian S, wacsog10, (#21)

heres the page for the show... http://mp3.rbnlive.com/Piper06.html

ill post more later... had practice afterward, im bushed...

thanks for the info on OPP Jethro Tull

peace pk

Poker Face - on the front line battle for our freedoms House Band of the 2nd American Revolution we all know is coming because of the treason in DC http://www.pokerface.com

pokerkid  posted on  2006-02-27   22:51:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: pokerkid (#22)

Good job on the show and thanks for posting the link.. some missed it who wanted to listen.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-27   22:53:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: pokerkid (#22)

keep us posted. i'm in pa/nj, so i'll come to your next gig.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-02-27   22:55:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: pokerkid (#22)

thanks, Paul! i'm proud of you.

christine  posted on  2006-02-27   23:10:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: pokerkid (#22)

Good work. You probably don't remember me (sponsor) but you played two consecutive years for the March for Liberty in 1999 and 2000 in Washington DC.

You never had a suggestion against anyone ... not anyone though your work; far from it.

After the October 2000 public demonstration do you know what happened? The ADL came at me BIG_TIME saying I was an American subversive; yet, we all were creating the sentiment against BIG_GOVERNMENT; remember our guest speakers from the Libertarian Party and the Constitution Party and various other organizations? It was all about a rally for patriots in defense of our once great nation; yet, I was a subversive according to ADL. I assume anyone affiliated with the events, as well.

Its doubtful their claims shall have much professional impact ( in fact, in light of baseless data you may find some stimulus ) upon you but this stuff happens all the time in politics; the ADL is treacherous. Beware of them.

Good luck, my friend,
Buckeroo

buckeroo  posted on  2006-02-28   0:13:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: christine, Jethro Tull, critter (#26)

Thanks for the pings. Critter, remember Pokerface?

buckeroo  posted on  2006-02-28   0:15:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: JRadcliffe, pokerkid, Christine (#15)

Are you still able to get on LF? I stopped trying.

It's hit and miss, same problem, different day. Paul, sorry I didn't get to say what I wanted to last night, kind of nervous. Did get to call them Nazi's though! :)Someone had to do it.

Ground_Control  posted on  2006-02-28   9:53:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Ground_Control, pokerkid (#28)

i'm listening to the archive now....at 23 mins.

christine  posted on  2006-02-28   10:37:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: pokerkid (#22)

wow! you began to get enlightened at the age of 5 when you travelled to russia with your parents....impressive story.

christine  posted on  2006-02-28   10:40:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Ground_Control (#28)

are you Ed or John?

christine  posted on  2006-02-28   10:56:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Ground_Control (#28)

Paul, sorry I didn't get to say what I wanted to last night, kind of nervous. Did get to call them Nazi's though! :)Someone had to do it.

Were you one of the callers?

It was a good show, was it not?

In speaking of the Truth, Henry David Thoreau once said: "Any Truth is better than make-believe ... rather than love, than money, than fame, give me Truth."

JRadcliffe  posted on  2006-02-28   15:07:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: JRadcliffe, Christine (#32)

Were you one of the callers?

I'm not too happy with my RBN debut. :( I really wanted to compliment Paul and mention what a true patriot he is, but I choked. Couldn't spit it out. Sorry folks, I'll do better next time.

Ground_Control  posted on  2006-02-28   15:38:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Ground_Control (#33)

Believe it or not, when I was young and stupid, I actually liked Rush Limpballs. I called into is show and when it came time for me to speak, I forgot what I wanted to say. Before I could remember, he was on to something else.

What a world...

In speaking of the Truth, Henry David Thoreau once said: "Any Truth is better than make-believe ... rather than love, than money, than fame, give me Truth."

JRadcliffe  posted on  2006-02-28   16:13:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: pokerkid (#22)

Hey! The last time we met was Saturday July 14th in NYC at the UN.

Used to post on FR, I left a partial cut & past of your super home page over there in protest of the way you were treated there. Hell, I guess you're getting used to it by now. LOL

Now just because I can I'm going to share (some would say spam) some of it on this thread.

Source here. http://www.pokerface.com/

Paul's Personal Message

One person once asked George Washington if he thought God was on his side. His reply is reported to be, "It is not that God should be on our side, but that we be on His." (so simple so true... 4/19/03)

For those of you wanting to contact Mark 'from Michigan' Koernke while the Fed Thugs have him locked up on BS charges can write to him here:

Mark Gregory, Koernke #295350 Chippewa Correction Facility 4269 West M-80 Kincheloe, Michigan [49784]

And please write to these other Political Prisoners

Hon. Rep James Traficant (Trumpt up charges, Fights for We the Sheople) prisoner #31213-060 Allenwood Low FCI PO Box 1000 WhiteDeer, Pa 17887

Yorie Khal (Son of Fed Murdered Gordon Khal Tax Protester) #04565-054 POBox 1000 C-1 Leavenworth, Kan 66048

Robert Wilson Stewart 04650-081 AD102 CADC P.O. Box 6300 Florence, AZ 85232

(Bob made the best dam .50cal Rifle that should be in the hands of every Freedom loving patriot. It made the Feds pee in their pants...

Bob had to go, JAIL is the only place for such anti-Tyrranist scoundrels....)

Maadi Griffin http://www.maadigriffin.com/

Fritz Springmeier 65941-065 (Prolific writer on the Illuminati Families) FDC Sheridan P.O. Box 6000 Sheridan, OR 97378

(His Politically Incorrect writings on exposing the elite scum got his ass jailed by the praetorian guard) Unfortunately this list is getting longer and longer everyday. These arrests have already signaled that the 2nd American Revolution is well on its way....

These fellow patriots could use a few words of encouragement and they always like to hear stories about victories of We the Free are having no matter how small they may seem.

"We must always remember Ephesians 6:12 which states: 'For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.'" ---Yahs WORD!!!

Sounds a lot like today with what is going on around the world...

2.26.03 "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." --Thomas Jefferson (how true even today...pf)

Paul's Favorite Quotes

Great Quotes about freedom, liberty, the God given RIGHTS of we the humans. . .

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government" 5/9/02 posted --George Washington

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." --Thomas Jefferson (ain't dat da truth. . ..)

When a government has ceased to protect the lives, liberty and property of the people, from whom it's legitimate powers are derived, and for the advancement of whose happiness it was instituted, and, so far from being a guarantee for the enjoyment of those inestimable and inalienable rights, becomes an instrument in the hands of evil rulers for their oppression. . . --THE TEXAS DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, MARCH 2, 1836

"The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State." --Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels (Kinda sounds like our political system since the days of Lincoln)

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And. . . moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." -- Barry Goldwater, Acceptance Speech at the Republican Convention; 1964 (I don't care much for the man, he turned out to be a judas goat for the elite, but this quote is RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!!!)

RIGHT TO HAPPINESS, FREEDOM, PROPERTY

Kings or parliaments could not give the rights essential to happiness. . . We claim them from a higher source-from the King of kings, and Lord of all the earth. They are not annexed to us by parchments and seals. They are created in us by the decrees of Providence. . . It would be an insult on the divine Majesty to say, that he has given or allowed any man or body of men a right to make me miserable. If no man or body of men has such a right, I have a right to be happy. If there can be no happiness without freedom, I have a right to be free. If I cannot enjoy freedom without security of property, I have a right to be thus secured. (Emphasis per original.) MORE INFO

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." --William Pitt, 18 Nov 1783

"Beware of the leader who bangs of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind.

"And when the drums of war have reached a fevor pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind is closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and do it gladly so. "How do I know? I know for this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." --Julius Caesar.

(Sounds very much like today's propagandist war on terrorism and the hunt for CIA-made Bin Boogey Man. . . Wake up America the Blue Bloods and their Prostiticians are STEALING AWAY your GOD given RIGHTS. . . Speak Now or forever lose your UnAlienable Rights Forever. . .)

"No law ever written has ever stopped any robber, rapist or killer, like cold blue steel in the hands of their last intended victim. The answer is simple. We will keep and bare arms, like our forefathers did, and we will defend ourselves." --Quotations of W. Emerson Wright

This just in Freedom loving folks. . .

"The plain meaning of the right of the people to keep arms is that it is an individual, rather than a collective, right and is not limited to keeping arms while engaged in active military service or as a member of a select militia such as the National Guard." --U.S. v Emerson, 5th Circuit Federal Courtpublished October 16, 2001

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. --Patrick Henry, on ratification of the Constitution, 1788

LIBERTY

"It is far better to focus our efforts on immigration reform and ridding our country of suspected terrorists than to restrict the constitutional liberties of our own citizens. The fight against terrorism should be fought largely at our borders. Once potential terrorists are in the country, the task of finding and arresting them becomes much harder, and the calls for intrusive government monitoring of all of us become louder. If we do not want to move in the direction of a police state at home, we must prevent terrorists from entering the country in the first place. Finally, meaningful immigration reform can only take place when we end the welfare state. No one has a right to immigrate to America and receive benefits paid for by taxpayers. When we eliminate welfare incentives, we insure that only those who truly seek America's freedoms and opportunities will want to come here." --Rep. Dr. Ron Paul (R-TX) (Americas ONLY consistent freedom loving Congress person)

"We are on the verge of a Global Transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nation will accept the New World Order!" --Billionaire and New World Order globalist David Rockefeller (maybe we should investigate this PUKE for he and his plutocratic homeys gained EVERYTHING from this debacle and tragedy)

In times of so-called WAR. . . TRUTH is the first casualty. . .pf

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." --(Arthur Schopenhauer)

PATRIOTS are not "Revolutionaries" trying to overthrow the government of the United States. PATRIOTS are "Counter-Revolutionaries" trying to prevent the government of the United States from overthrowing the Constitution of the United States. - Unknown Author

"He that would give up a little bit of liberty for a little bit of personal safety, deserves neither liberty nor safety" --Benjamin Franklin

"Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of Hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak, if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature placed in our power. Three millions of people armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone: it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave." --Patrick Henry

Columnist Blasts UN's Silence after Attack http://(CNSNews.com) - "The U.N. building towers over the East River like a giant middle finger aimed at our shores," writes the New York Post's Andrea Peyser in what a diplomat might call a "frank and forthright" column in Friday's newspaper. "It's time for the United Nations to get the hell out of town," she writes, venting her fury at an organization that "functions as an international megaphone through which every Third World dictatorship vents its fury at our way of life."

"I have no doubt even as I write this, that longstanding bureaucratic wish lists are being transformed into 'essential' anti-terrorist precautions. This sort of overreaction is exactly what terrorists want. To the extent that we give away our freedom in the vain hope that its sacrifice will purchase us a little security, we are playing into their hands." -- Glenn H. Reynolds, Fox News, Sept. 12, 2001

AN ATTEMPT TO SILENCE A MAN IS TO PAY HIM HOMAGE, FOR IT IS AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT HIS ARGUMENTS ARE BOTH IMPOSSIBLE TO ANSWER AND IMPOSSIBLE TO IGNORE. --Ed Steele Constitutional Lawyer for 'We The People'

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government. . . lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." --Patrick Henry (Outstanding. . ..)

"And now, Almighty Father, if it is Thy holy will that we shall obtain a place and name among the nations of the earth, grant that we may be enabled to show our gratitude for Thy goodness by our endeavors to fear and obey Thee. Bless us with thy wisdom in our counsels, success in battle, and let our victories be tempered with humanity. Endow, also, our enemies with enlightened minds, that they become sensible of their injustice, and willing to restore our liberty and peace. Grant the petition of Thy servant, for the sake of whom Thou hast called Thy beloved Son; nevertheless, not my will, but Thine be done." --George Washington (As always Georgie had a great relationship with FATHER!)

"Oh, my countrymen! What will our children say, when they read the history of these times? Should they find we tamely gave away without one noble struggle, the most invaluable of earthly blessings? As they drag the galling chain, will they not execrate us? If we have any respect for things sacred; any regard to the dearest treasures on earth; if we have one tender sentiment for posterity; if we would not be despised by the whole world - let us in the most open, solemn manner, and with determined fortitude, swear we will die, if we cannot live free men!" Josiah Quincy, Jr., 1788published in the Boston Gazette

OK. . . Madison pretty much wrote the Constitution. These are his comments regarding the general welfare section. Any questions?

"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers (enumerated in the Constitution) connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." --James Madison

The above puts the Kabosh on those liberal freaks that say the Constitution is a living breathing document subject to change with the whims of the day. . .The Constitution addresses the basic urges of MEN who try to rule over others by dividing up the power into 4 branches. . . yes 4, you might be forgetting the power of the JURY to nullify the bad laws that men in congress, our prez, and Judiciary might think up that just don't work out in REAL life. pf

Let us, for a moment, take the sex-education pushers at their word: If you teach a child how to use a condom, you're promoting safety - not usage. Why, then, doesn't the same logic apply to guns?" -- Columnist Michelle Malkin (Because the Gun Nazis don't use Logic, and are not CONSISTENT in their actions. Remember some are more EQUAL than others)

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." --Benjamin Franklin (a shorty but a goody)

A wise decision, that gives you something to think about fifty years later... In 1960, Robert Menard was a Commander aboard the USS Constellation when he was part of a meeting between United States Navy personnel and their counterparts in the Japanese Defense Forces. Fifteen years had passed since VJ day, most of those at the meeting were WWII veterans, and men who had fought each other to the death at sea were now comrades in battle who could confide in one another.

Someone at the table asked a Japanese admiral why, with the Pacific Fleet devastated at Pearl Harbor and the mainland US forces in what Japan had to know was a pathetic state of unreadiness, Japan had not simply invaded the West Coast.

Commander Menard would never forget the crafty look on the Japanese commander's face as he frankly answered the question.

"You are right", he told the Americans. "We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand." (This is a good example as to why our Second Amendment - God given Rights are so IMPORTANT and why the Elite Scumbags and their Prostiticians are trying the full court press to demolish it, because WE cannot EVER be slaves as long as we are ARMED TO THE TEETH. . . God Bless America. . .)

For the UN protest Rally Saturday July 14th. . .

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Can it be supposed that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity. . . will respect the less important and arbitrary ones . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants, they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." --T. Jefferson

And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

"The right to use a thing comprehends a right to the means necessary to its use, and without which it would be useless."

From John Adams. . . To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defense, or by partial orders of towns, countries or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government. The fundamental law of the militia is, that it be created, directed and commanded by the laws, and ever for the support of the laws.

". . .citizens have access to the courts the way Christians had access to the lions. . ." This quote is from an excellent article about Lysander Spooner and his battle with the Post Office. Worth reading. MORE INFO

"Is life so dear or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" --Patrick Henry (One of thee greatest Forefather)

. . .WOW! Check this doozy one out by A. Solzhenitsyn And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether the would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . .The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!. . . Alexandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago and more recent congress critters progun quotes. . .

Rep. John W. Patman: "The people have a right to keep arms; therefore, if we should have some Executive who attempted to set himself up as a dictator or king, the people can organize themselves together and, with the arms and ammunition they have, they can properly protect themselves."

Rep. Edwin A. Hall: "Before the advent of Hitler or Stalin, who took power from the German and Russian people, measures were thrust upon the free legislatures of those countries to deprive the people of the possession and use of firearms, so that they could not resist the encroachment of such diabolical and vitriolic state police organizations as the Gestapo, the OGPU, and the Cheka." predecessor of KGB)

Further, should war break out, Congress enacted legislation to authorize the President to requisition broad categories of property with military uses from the private sector on payment of fair compensation. The legislation stated; "Nothing contained in this Act shall be construed: (1) to authorize the requisitioning or require the registration of any firearms possessed by any individual for his personal protection or sport [or] (2) to impair or infringe in any manner the right of any individual to keep and bear arms. . ." "If sending tanks, dozens of heavily armed men, forcing lethal gases into their space and burning over 80 human beings into ashes. . . many of them children -- over an alleged tax violation isn't tyranny, then what is?" ~~ Remember Waco's Anniversary 4/19/01

. . .we are ruled by mercenaries, men without a country. National sovereignty is nothing to them, nor is patriotism. . . these are not the actions of patriots. --Lew Rockwell

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." --Thomas Paine (how true. . .)

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe that there would be a revolution before morning." --Henry Ford (Sad but soooo true. It will take for the beer and the sports to stop flowing and showing for the masses to rise up against this Supreme Injustice. . . . .)

It is natural for man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it. --Patrick Henry

"Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle! Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did, and it never will. Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." --Frederick Douglass, August 4, 1857

“Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes...known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few…No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.” – James Madison, Political Observations, 1795

Hmmmmm  posted on  2006-02-28   17:28:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: JRadcliffe (#34)

I haven't called into a show in years. Cspan must have banned me for talking Israeli involvement in 911. I didn't stop talking for a second. You can't or they'll cut you off. It's hard enough to get through, but when I do, they won't even pick up the phone.

Ground_Control  posted on  2006-02-28   17:58:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Ground_Control, buckeroo, wbales, Elliott Jackalope, Bayonne, Jethro Tull, Zipporah, robin, Eoghan, Dakmar, buffycat. Lady X, Arete, mirage, Tauzero, abbracadabra, angle, aristeides, MUDDOG, Esso, Hmmmmm, bluegrass, Brian S, wacsog10, dinglebert, ALL (#36)

Thanks all for the kind comments. It seems that John Stadtmiller finally wants to have a chat with me. Christine, it looks like this coming monday 5-7 EST I will be having a chat with John about all of this crap that hit us last week/month.

Again the URL for RBN is http://www.rbnlive.com John Stadtmillers show 5-7pm this coming monday March6th Mark it down and please call in. (800) 313-9443

Christine, my awakening was even earlier then that. My mom has already read the cutting edge books into the cabal that is ruining this earth. At two, some of the first words out of my mouth were Rockyfella, and Rothychild, and bankers bad, seriously. The rest I gained by traveling all over the world and seeing how the other half lives. I got tons of stories, but will save them for another day.

GC - thanks for the call, you got another chance coming up.

hmmm. thats quite a collection of pauls favorites posted above... but you get the drift where we are coming from. Now its time to beat Americas enemies back with the truth to shut up their name calling of the R & the A

peace to all paul

Poker Face - on the front line battle for our freedoms House Band of the 2nd American Revolution we all know is coming because of the treason in DC http://www.pokerface.com

pokerkid  posted on  2006-02-28   18:22:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: pokerkid (#37)

Rockyfella, and Rothychild,

Yes.....they are very,very involved.....architects, the both of them.

Grumble Jones  posted on  2006-02-28   18:28:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: christine (#0)

The controversial band Poker Face, labeled by critics as anti-Semitic and racist, will not be performing at this year's state Libertarian Party convention, scheduled for Saturday at the Rutgers University Inn and Conference Center in New Brunswick.

Jesus 'H' Christ!

I've lost all hope for the Libertarian Party.

A bunch of jews in disguise.

Mind_Virus  posted on  2006-02-28   18:29:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Ground_Control (#36)

I don't even bother with the MSM anymore. It's all controlled by government. Our 'Land of the Free" (LOL) is the envy of Soviet Russia.

I don't watch TV. I do not listen to anything but RBN. And all my news comes from Internet sites I know I can trust. I am always so far ahead of the curve to most people I meet, it's unbelievable.

In speaking of the Truth, Henry David Thoreau once said: "Any Truth is better than make-believe ... rather than love, than money, than fame, give me Truth."

JRadcliffe  posted on  2006-02-28   18:40:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Mind_Virus (#39)

Mind Virus.... Dont diss the Libertarians. They stood up for us on numerous accounts, from the Rutgers Uniiversity student libertarians, to the regular party members, and the convention planners, all of them. It was a decision made by Rutgers University, and they alone.

In fact a few of the libertarians want to put together a debate on the Rutgers campus to discuss this 1st amendment atrocity that was allowed to be perpetrated against us and them, by calling out our detractors on a one on one, and expose the student body to this America hater, marxist rhetoric spewer and class warfare divider right before their eyes.

Free speach is free speach, not that some subjects are more special then others that we can or cant talk about. I hope that this event goes down. Somebody has to shut this antiAmerican F to the masses, so he cant hide anywhere.

I hope I cleared that up for you brother... pk

Poker Face - on the front line battle for our freedoms House Band of the 2nd American Revolution we all know is coming because of the treason in DC http://www.pokerface.com

pokerkid  posted on  2006-02-28   18:48:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: pokerkid (#37)

thats quite a collection of pauls favorites posted above...

Seems like you've been reading some of my stuff. ;0)

If you ever need any extra security let me know. I worked 11 years for Jam in Chicago.

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-28   18:51:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: pokerkid (#41)

expose the student body to this America hater, marxist rhetoric spewer and class warfare divider right before their eyes.

That is exactly what these statist creeps are. And they continually use the Orwellian tactic of maligning true patriots as traitors, America haters, Hitlerites, etc.

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-28   18:55:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Mind_Virus (#39)

I've lost all hope for the Libertarian Party. A bunch of jews in disguise.

Anarchocapitalism: Just Another Jewish Cult.


The one thing Professor Xavier and Magneto always agreed on was that the world should be safe for mutants.

Tauzero  posted on  2006-02-28   18:57:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: pokerkid (#41)

Mind Virus.... Dont diss the Libertarians. They stood up for us on numerous accounts, from the Rutgers Uniiversity student libertarians, to the regular party members, and the convention planners, all of them. It was a decision made by Rutgers University, and they alone.

There was no input from the Libertarian party?

I find this hard to believe considering all the elements at play here.

I'm all for a 1st Amendment bebate on the issue but i think it's too late to speak on that platform in light of the fact that you got axed.

The proper move would of been to allow you to play and ask question later.

You picking up what i'm putting down?

Mind_Virus  posted on  2006-02-28   18:59:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: pokerkid (#37)

Christine, my awakening was even earlier then that. My mom has already read the cutting edge books into the cabal that is ruining this earth. At two, some of the first words out of my mouth were Rockyfella, and Rothychild, and bankers bad, seriously. The rest I gained by traveling all over the world and seeing how the other half lives.

I'm amazed...really. I'll try to call in when you're on John's show next Monday. I'm like G_C though--air shy. ;)

christine  posted on  2006-02-28   19:18:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Tauzero (#44)

Anarchocapitalism: Just Another Jewish Cult.

ANCAPS are clever in disguising their true nature.

Their loyalty resides with the state.

Mind_Virus  posted on  2006-02-28   19:20:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: christine (#46)

I'm like G_C though--air shy.

Let's see, BULLSHIT comes to mind. Give'em hell!

“Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes...known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few…No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.” – James Madison, Political Observations, 1795

Hmmmmm  posted on  2006-02-28   19:25:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Hmmmmm (#48)

do you know how many times i've been in studio with john and bill and haven't said a word? :P

christine  posted on  2006-02-28   19:29:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Mind_Virus, Tauzero (#47)

How about a little Free Market Anti-Capitalism, Mutualism

And don't miss the blog, http://mutualist.blogspot.com/

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-28   19:29:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: christine (#49)

But how many times have you said a word?

“Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes...known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few…No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.” – James Madison, Political Observations, 1795

Hmmmmm  posted on  2006-02-28   19:32:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: christine (#49)

do you know how many times i've been in studio with john and bill and haven't said a word? :P

You've been in a studio?

Who the hell are you girl?

I don't care...I'm in love.

I live in California..You single?

;-)

Mind_Virus  posted on  2006-02-28   19:32:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Mind_Virus, christine (#52)

You've been in a studio?

Who the hell are you girl?

I don't care...I'm in love.

I live in California..You single?

;-)

My job used to be to keep the freaks away from the stars. ;0)

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-28   19:35:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: BTP Holdings (#53)

My job used to be to keep the freaks away from the stars. ;0)

LOL!!

I have a feeling Christine can take care of herself.

She knew what she was getting when she invited me to this forum.

Christine is a player.

As i've always said.."HATE THE GAME NOT THE PLAYER."

Christine is a sister in action..I like that. A true patriot.

She's got my backing.

If anyone attacks her on this board..Stand the fuck by...;-)

Mind_Virus  posted on  2006-02-28   19:49:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Mind_Virus (#54)

oh, you sweet thing, you. ;)

christine  posted on  2006-02-28   19:51:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Mind_Virus (#54)

She knew what she was getting when she invited me to this forum.

Yep, and I've got bunches of stories from when I worked that gig.

    If anyone attacks her on this board..Stand the fuck by...;-)

I'll be pleased to stand on the edge of the mosh pit for a change rather than jumping into the mix. LOL

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-02-28   19:55:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: christine (#55)

oh, you sweet thing, you. ;)

Thank ya babes..;-)

I'm a 100% fucking hellraiser.

Then again..You knew that..*grin*.

So what do ya say?

Lets ROCK this place!!

I like to see 5,000 members strong and growing by the minute.

I'll do my part.

You up to it?

Mind_Virus  posted on  2006-02-28   20:02:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: BTP Holdings (#56)

I want to see activity on this board jump.

I want threads to move and shake.

It doesn't matter if you respond to my postings, as long as the board moves with a purpose.

I arrived at LibertyForum when there were 400 to 500 members.

I like to think that i had some influence on it's success.

Unfortunately for them management didn't move with the times.

Mind_Virus  posted on  2006-02-28   20:09:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Mind_Virus (#58)

I arrived at LibertyForum when there were 400 to 500 members.

How long ago was that??

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-28   20:11:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Mind_Virus (#57)

I'm a 100% fucking hellraiser.

my fav type!

Lets ROCK this place!!

I like to see 5,000 members strong and growing by the minute.

I'll do my part.

You up to it?

hell, yeah! let's do it!

christine  posted on  2006-02-28   20:17:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Zipporah (#59)

How long ago was that??

I had 4 to 5 names on LF going back to early 2001.

Free Republic was gaining ground rapidly..Especially after the old Newsmax forum shut down..I believe in 1999 or 2000.

I still believe to this day that RimJob and his CPAC force bought out Newsmax.

The Newsmax forum back in the day was making waves.

Constituionalist & Bassman to name a few members were pro Libertarian and the shit was hitting the fan.

I woke up one day and the forum was gone..Newsmax had sold out.

There's been a forum war ever since.

Mind_Virus  posted on  2006-02-28   20:26:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Mind_Virus (#61)

I had 4 to 5 names on LF going back to early 2001.

Free Republic was gaining ground rapidly..Especially after the old Newsmax forum shut down..I believe in 1999 or 2000.

I still believe to this day that RimJob and his CPAC force bought out Newsmax.

The Newsmax forum back in the day was making waves.

Constituionalist & Bassman to name a few members were pro Libertarian and the shit was hitting the fan.

I woke up one day and the forum was gone..Newsmax had sold out.

There's been a forum war ever since.

So LF pretty much peaked about a year ago or before? I joined FR in 98 and also posted on the old MSNBC boards....after they them down I only posted on FR. Then left for LP.. I often wondered what the deal was with JimRob when he would ban people or those that were seen as dissenters. he'd tell them go to LP.. thought that odd..

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-28   20:31:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Zipporah (#62)

So LF pretty much peaked about a year ago or before? I joined FR in 98 and also posted on the old MSNBC boards....after they them down I only posted on FR. Then left for LP.. I often wondered what the deal was with JimRob when he would ban people or those that were seen as dissenters. he'd tell them go to LP.. thought that odd..

Free Republic IMO is a multi-million dollar propaganda machine financed by the jew controlled media / military complex.

RimJob might run the show but the FoxNews execs & Hollywood jew types pump a lot money into it to ensure the masses are kept in line.

I will expound on this later.

Mind_Virus  posted on  2006-02-28   20:41:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: christine (#60)

hell, yeah! let's do it!

Can i at least get a hug first?

Mind_Virus  posted on  2006-02-28   20:42:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Mind_Virus (#63)

Free Republic IMO is a multi-million dollar propaganda machine financed by the jew controlled media / military complex.

RimJob might run the show but the FoxNews execs & Hollywood jew types pump a lot money into it to ensure the masses are kept in line.

I will expound on this later.

Oh I dont disagree it's a propaganda machine.. but this is the first I've ever heard about Fox News etc.. pumping $$ into it.. I dont get though is how they could possibly collect that much money from posters.. and what could possibly cost him that much money to run FR? Just seems odd..

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-28   20:43:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: BTP Holdings (#50)

Mutualism

I like the approach he suggests to rolling back the state and corporatism, but ultimately all forms of anarchism are guilty of the Fatal Conceit, IMO.

And no, he does not successfully resurrect the labor theory of value.

However, what he and the subjectivist economists (among whose number I count myself) generally do not spend much time thinking about -- or, if they have ideas on them, they do not inform their economics -- is religion, culture, ethnicity, and race. Given a sufficient degree of homogeneity along these vectors, something approaching a labor-value theory may prevail in a manner consistent with the more general and correct subjectivist framework.


The one thing Professor Xavier and Magneto always agreed on was that the world should be safe for mutants.

Tauzero  posted on  2006-02-28   22:59:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: christine, JRadcliffe, Ground_Control, buckeroo, wbales, Elliott Jackalope, Bayonne, Jethro Tull, Zipporah, robin, Eoghan, Dakmar, buffycat. Lady X, Arete, mirage, Tauzero, abbracadabra, angle, aristeides, MUDDOG, Esso, Hmmmmm, bluegrass, Brian S, wacsog (#46)

Looky looky.... OPP U dont know me gang, did another LOVE piece on us today... http://www.onepeoplesproject.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=928&Itemid=2

You got to love it that when your friends keep you posted on what is going on behind your back...

Also someone from OPP is monitoring this thread, you can see one of my posts from this thread posted on the accompanying OPP-FORUM thread here: http://www.oppforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=209

I hope that the people going to his site and reading my words, will actually take it upon themselves to look into the facts that I have posted about the hollowcause, they will learn for themselves where the TRUTH lays. I think most of the folks that he thinks support him, will come to know of his American Hating efforts and know him for his deeds.

peace pk

Poker Face - on the front line battle for our freedoms House Band of the 2nd American Revolution we all know is coming because of the treason in DC http://www.pokerface.com

pokerkid  posted on  2006-02-28   23:29:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: pokerkid (#67)

Who are these people.. I didnt see anything unless I missed it.. about us.. who runs that site etc?? They're going to report you to Kristinn :P

Zipporah  posted on  2006-02-28   23:35:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Zipporah (#68)

OPP U dont know me, reposted my entire post #4 at the top of this thread here on his OPP Forum board: http://www.oppforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=209. thats what I was reffering to. peace pk

Poker Face - on the front line battle for our freedoms House Band of the 2nd American Revolution we all know is coming because of the treason in DC http://www.pokerface.com

pokerkid  posted on  2006-03-01   0:00:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: pokerkid (#67)

jeez...

What a bunch of uneducated infantile losers those twinks are.

They need to be educated in "I may not agree with what you have to say but I shall defend to the death your right to say it."

Censorship can be a pretty cool two-way street. The smear merchants get one guy censored, he puts on his own campaign and silences the opposition - and where does it end?

It would seem that OPP doesn't even want their own rights since they can't figure out this very simple concept.

mirage  posted on  2006-03-01   0:07:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Mind_Virus, Christine (#57)

I'll do my part.

You up to it?

He's not kidding!

Ground_Control  posted on  2006-03-01   0:27:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: JRadcliffe (#40)

I don't even bother with the MSM anymore.

I only listen to the first hr or so in the morning sometimes. Heard some pretty good calls got through a while back, plugging http://nowarforisrael.com and http://whatreallyhappened.com. Other than that, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Ground_Control  posted on  2006-03-01   1:00:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: mirage (#70)

Censorship can be a pretty cool two-way street.

But so far, its only been one way. Their way. That's why you can print defaming caricatures of Mohammad and call it free speech, or you can piss in a jar, place a crucifix with Christ in it and call it art, but you'd damn well better agree with the Joovision version of their little holyhoax.

Yep...so far, they've gotten their way. They have no reason to believe that it will be any different.

In speaking of the Truth, Henry David Thoreau once said: "Any Truth is better than make-believe ... rather than love, than money, than fame, give me Truth."

JRadcliffe  posted on  2006-03-01   1:17:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: pokerkid (#69)

I'd be curious to find out your opinion of The Birdman.


The one thing Professor Xavier and Magneto always agreed on was that the world should be safe for mutants.

Tauzero  posted on  2006-03-01   1:44:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: mirage (#70)

It would seem that OPP doesn't even want their own rights since they can't figure out this very simple concept.

Principles 4 and 116.


The one thing Professor Xavier and Magneto always agreed on was that the world should be safe for mutants.

Tauzero  posted on  2006-03-01   1:50:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Mind_Virus (#64)

Can i at least get a hug first?

come back here and get it!

christine  posted on  2006-03-01   9:54:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Tauzero (#75)

What I like about the birdman is that he pushes the envelope of what free speach is. Free Speach isnt PC speach which our machiavellian overlords are trying to shove down our countries throat. Like him or not, he has the right to say what he wants. And it will piss off some people. He does expose many of the zionazi crimes, and many of our special interest groups double standards. Other then that, I really dont know the man and cant speak for him.

Ill flip the question back to you, why the interest in birdman, a hero of yours? someone you hate? pk

Poker Face - on the front line battle for our freedoms House Band of the 2nd American Revolution we all know is coming because of the treason in DC http://www.pokerface.com

pokerkid  posted on  2006-03-01   11:25:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: All (#77)

This is from the link you posted previously about what Birdman posted on his front page about what he thinks:

A Few of the Birdman's Many Quotations on Free Speech and Truth

* Free speech is offensive speech. * Truth hurts -- especially if it's funny. * The reason men are silenced is not because they speak falsely, but because they speak the truth. This is because if men speak falsehoods, their own words can be used against them; while if they speak truly, there is nothing which can be used against them -- except force. * A good writer should be both insightful and inciteful. * The best ideas are those alive with manly vigor, which rape each virgin mind and fill it with the seed of unborn thoughts. * You will know you have spoken the truth when you are angrily denounced; and you will know you have spoken both truly and well when you are visited by the police. * Things are interesting to the extent that they arouse controversy; and things which are the most interesting are those which are cursed and consigned to Hell. * Free speech is an act of desperation. It is a last resort, an onslaught of quiet fury, and -- in most cases -- an insult to, and abandonment of, vital social norms. Men who murder have usually lost their inhibitions only for a moment; but men who speak freely have lost them forever, and are thus as dangerous to a society as a mad dog. * To be taken seriously, you must first offend. If you do not, people will say, "Oh, he's just like so-and-so, with perhaps a touch of such-and-such", and forget about you entirely; while if you touch a raw nerve, you at least know that you are on the pathway to the brain. The point is, men will rarely think new thoughts without a jolt, and if you expect them to think the ones you have, then you must first crash your way into their consciousness. * Truth has no manners. It is no respecter of persons. It wounds kings as deeply as commoners. It cuts down the high, and confirms the lowness of the low. It may dress up for formal occasions, but it does so only in order that it may more shockingly expose itself in front of the assembled company. And just as it respects no one, likewise there are few who respect it. But those who do are granted many favors -- power, understanding, dominion, and of course the honor of the unswerving hatred of the ignorant millions. * What I say may seem outrageous and outre, but my purpose is to push the envelope of discourse to its outer limits on the theory that freedom of speech, like both mind and body, requires vigorous exercise to remain healthy. Beyond this, the act of pushing the free speech envelope will embolden others to speak, and their acts of boldness reinforce the perception that free speech is tolerated, thereby increasing the probability that it will be. But as I embolden others to speak, so I embolden them to act; and in this way I help insure that free speech is more than a sounding gong or a tinkling symbol. Put another way, I hope to make the world safe for bigotry, ie, safe for the opinions to which -- in Ambrose Bierce's words -- others are intractably and vociferously opposed. But if I advocate free speech, I also advocate and impose upon myself the harshest and most demanding discipline on speech: I acknowledge my critics and call attention to their criticism, and I always respond seriously to any serious criticism they may offer. What this means is that I accept and impose the discipline of truth: If someone is right in their criticism, I have an obligation to acknowledge the error -- publicly if possible; and with as stringent a discipline as this, I am forced to be careful in what I say. For all its stringency, however, this discipline offers some very distinct advantages: It ultimately disarms my critics -- not infrequently turning them into friends -- and continually reinforces my reputation among both friends and foes as one who is as intolerant of error in himself as he is intolerant of it in others, and as morally incorruptible as any man who walks the earth. By this means, then, I retain as enemies only the evil and the stupid; and these are those who would be my enemies no matter what. Thus my fights are few, easy and usually small, while my victories are often grand; and in the process I accomplish one of the most desired goals of any man anywhere -- I can sleep at night.

Poker Face - on the front line battle for our freedoms House Band of the 2nd American Revolution we all know is coming because of the treason in DC http://www.pokerface.com

pokerkid  posted on  2006-03-01   11:33:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: JRadcliffe (#73)

Yep...so far, they've gotten their way. They have no reason to believe that it will be any different.

You mean they have no reason *yet* to believe that it will be any different - and only because the "rules" they wish to lay down simply haven't been applied to them yet.

Eventually, they too will be silenced be an opportunist. Its just a matter of time; we've seen this before....a few hundred years ago....history has a tendency to rhyme if not simply outright repeat.

mirage  posted on  2006-03-01   11:38:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: pokerkid (#77)

The Birdman's very smart, and I agree with him on a lot. He's clued-in on blacks and Jews, but doesn't hate 'em.


The one thing Professor Xavier and Magneto always agreed on was that the world should be safe for mutants.

Tauzero  posted on  2006-03-01   11:48:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: pokerkid (#69)

Thanks!

Zipporah  posted on  2006-03-01   11:58:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Tauzero, Dakmar (#66)

ultimately all forms of anarchism are guilty of the Fatal Conceit

I'm really not familiar with this, and I don't lump mutualism in with other forms of anarchy. The anarchy stems from the complete lack of government except where it is duly authorized. Indeed, Patrick Henry and the anti-Federalists saw the dangers of which were designed into the U.S. Constitution. If not for the mischief of Congress we would not suffer as slaves to the money power.

Dakmar looked at the info about mutalism once and described it as a sort of Jeffersonian Goldwaterism.

The least interference by government in our private affairs the better for all is what I say.

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-03-01   21:34:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: BTP Holdings (#82)

Fatal Conceit

Hayek reference -- he wrote a book of the same name. It's a criticism he directed primarily against those waging rationalist deconstructive war on traditional society, its forms and institutions, but is applicable to other rationalist traditions (including Objectivism, anarchocapitalism, and more garden-variety libertarianism, in particular its non-aggression supposition.) Mutualism.org has a similar tenor, IMO.


John 7:13

Tauzero  posted on  2006-03-01   22:53:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Tauzero (#83)

in particular its non-aggression supposition.) http://Mutualism.org has a similar tenor, IMO.

From wht I've seen on that site it seems as though it is the absense of excessive coercion from government (of which we have waaaaay too much of presently) which is part of what they hope to achieve. And that is achieved by building new structures within the existing corrupt structures so that eventually the new, less coercive (and more cooperative) structures can take their place. It also seems as though this fits in with the limited government ideal of the Founders.

It has possibilities and we should at least be open to it working in some context, though in a purist sense it might have some troubles. If you were to do some checking you would find that Europe has had a large increase in producers cooperatives and other local organizations which tend to remove things from the central control which gives our current corrupted system its tyrannical flavor.

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-03-01   23:32:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: BTP Holdings (#84)

It has possibilities and we should at least be open to it working in some context

Absolutely. The strategy is attractive, and also the society he envisions, with many or most working for themselves rather than as serfs of a corporation or of the state (which is just a corporation with guns.)

(Side puzzle: Why do leftists, who hate guns and corporations, love the state? Makes no sense at all.)


John 7:13

Tauzero  posted on  2006-03-02   0:51:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Tauzero (#85)

(Side puzzle: Why do leftists, who hate guns and corporations, love the state? Makes no sense at all.)

Not such a great puzzle, they are commies first and foremost. They love the elitists such as Hillary but think there should be this utopia implemented by the nanny state. It is really quite Fabian of them.

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-03-02   1:30:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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