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Title: Wither Google/AlltheWeb hits on F4um Metzinger thread???
Source: Starwind
URL Source: http://N/A
Published: Mar 1, 2006
Author: Starwind
Post Date: 2006-03-01 12:56:07 by Starwind
Keywords: Google/AlltheWeb, Metzinger, thread???
Views: 1835
Comments: 67

It would seem that this Freedom4um posted thread here:

(Dallas) Police Deny Excessive Force In Bloody Arrest (black cop, white girl)

Has been scrubbed/filtered out of major search engines.

Up until a 1-2 weeks ago, it appeared in the 1st 2 or 3 pages of hits on a Google search:

[Google] "Michelle Metzinger" OR "Ceaphus Gordon"

but now it is does not appear.

Further, if one refines the search to:

[Google] site:www.freedom4um.com "Michelle Metzinger"

it still does not appear.

However a search for

[Google] site:www.freedom4um.com "Michelle"

brings up 197 hits specific to Freedom4um, mostly about Michelle Malkin, but none about Michelle Metzinger.

I have tried freedom4um site-specific searches for "Dallas", "Ceaphus", "Deep Ellum", "Rick Watkins" and "250-pound guy" and *none* of those searches yields a hit.

Further still, similar searches on "All the Web" yield the same results:

[All the Web] "Michelle Metzinger" OR "Ceaphus Gordon"

brings up 250 hits, but the only Freedom4um hit is to the "Latest Articles: Dead Constitution" page which is now an obsolete reference and:

11 - 20 of 250 Results for "Michelle Metzinger" OR "Ceaphus Gordon"

Freedom4um.com
... Dubose A witness captured the officer restraining Michelle Metzinger. click to watch The Dallas police ... that occurred between Officer Ceaphus Gordon and Michelle Metzinger, a 25-year ...
more hits from: http://216.133.76.156/cgi-bin/latestarticles.cgi?cn=113 - 29 KB

51 - 59 of 250 Results for "Michelle Metzinger" OR "Ceaphus Gordon"

Derby scuffle officer has internal affairs history
... scuffle that occurred between Officer Ceaphus Gordon and Michelle Metzinger, a 25-year-old ... concrete after the scuffle between Dallas Officer Ceaphus Gordon and Michelle Metzinger ... more hits from: http://www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=18092 - 35 KB

All the Web also has a site specific search, but such a search

[All the Web] SITE:www.freedom4um.com "Michelle Metzinger" OR "Ceaphus Gordon"

yields 68 hits (mostly to sites in addition to freedom4um.com because All the Web's site-specific search is inclusive, but not limited) and the only Freedom4um hits found again are the same two:

21 - 30 of 68 Results for SITE:www.freedom4um.com "Michelle Metzinger" OR

Freedom4um.com
Freedom4um
more hits from: http://216.133.76.156/cgi-bin/latestarticles.cgi?cn=113 - 29 KB

31 - 40 of 68 Results for SITE:www.freedom4um.com "Michelle Metzinger" OR

4um: Derby scuffle officer has internal affairs history
Freedom4um ... occurred between Officer Ceaphus Gordon and Michelle Metzinger, a 25 ... between Dallas Officer Ceaphus Gordon and Michelle Metzinger ... questions and comments to webmaster@freedom4um.com ...
more hits from: http://www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=18092 - 35 KB

Google and All the Web both produce numerous hits for numerous websites (news, forums, blogs, etc) discussing Michelle Metzinger, but it would seem the particular thread on Freedom4um wherein we dissected the evidence seems to be the only web-hit of which I'm aware that is no longer served up by these two serach engines.

One wonders why.

I can't imagine a mistake or bug that affects both Google and Yahoo (All the Web), that precludes only one particular thread that still exists and has continuously existed, when numerous other hits on other sites for the exact same subject matter are still produced.

I may be wrong, but I can't imagine any motivation for Ms. Metzinger's legal team to ask these two search engines to remove this specific find, though I can imagine why the City of Dallas or Officer Gordon's legal team might rather this thread not gain further noteriety. But I still have difficulty believing that Google or Yahoo would actually cooperate in excluding this particular hit from search results and I don't see a compelling legal argument that would pass muster to persuade a court to issue an injunction against Google or Yahoo.

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#1. To: All, ruthie, Jethro Tull, BTP Holdings, Christine, Zipporah, Neil McIver (#0)

Ruthie, does Michelle's legal team know about this?

Neil, can you imagine any F4um software changes (robot.txt??) that would drop the thread from view by crawlers?

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-03-01   12:59:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

One wonders why

I may be wrong, but I can't imagine any motivation for Ms. Metzinger's legal team to ask these two search engines to remove this specific find, though I can imagine why the City of Dallas or Officer Gordon's legal team might rather this thread not gain further noteriety. But I still have difficulty believing that Google or Yahoo would actually cooperate in excluding this particular hit from search results and I don't see a compelling legal argument that would pass muster to persuade a court to issue an injunction against Google or Yahoo.

This is very strange Starwind.. Hmm maybe not Metzinger's legal team but rather the opposing side?

Zipporah  posted on  2006-03-01   13:00:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Neil, can you imagine any F4um software changes (robot.txt??) that would drop the thread from view by crawlers?

let me ping Neil to this.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-03-01   13:01:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Hmm maybe not Metzinger's legal team but rather the opposing side?

I would assume Michelle's opposition, yes, but I still can't imagine Google or Yahoo voluntarily cooperating, nor can I imagine a court ordering (assuming say a gag order) this specific thread being suppressed from a search, without an additional demand to F4um to pull the thread, but even so a gag order affects the litigants, not the public's free discussion... so we're back to why would Google, et al cooperate?

And unless Neil finds something at F4um about the specific thread (that would direct crawlers to ignore it), I can't imagine what kind of bug would cause this, all of a sudden, to disappear from searches that used to find it.

Neil, maybe robot.txt got hacked?

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-03-01   13:34:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I still can't imagine Google or Yahoo voluntarily cooperating, nor can I imagine a court ordering (assuming say a gag order) this specific thread being suppressed from a search,

Nor can I.. majorly fishy ..

Zipporah  posted on  2006-03-01   13:36:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Heh. Yesterday there was a very nice article on the Gary Post-Tribune website, linked over at American Renaissance, about a white boy at a predominantly black school having been beaten up repeatedly and now in fear of his life ("They kept screaming, ‘How do you like that, whitey?’ Or 'F' you, whitey,’”...“And they kept on calling me trailer trash, hillbilly, redneck.")

Not quite as serious perhaps as the white racist graffiti incident in Hobart that got bigger press ( "The FBI takes hate crimes very seriously and if an investigation determines that a violation occurred here, we will absolutely aggressively pursue it")

Somehow I doubt the FBI will be contacted on this one. In a sense it is routine, and therefore not news at all.

Today the piece is gone. But in a weird way -- all the URL brings is a blank page.

CBS2 Chicago still carries an abbreviated version though. This is the only other link at this time -- according to Google.

Google is a private company, and can do whatever it wants, including suppress without comment stories or ideas management (or a well-placed employee) does not like. :/ Something to keep in mind.

Tauzero  posted on  2006-03-01   13:41:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Google is a private company, and can do whatever it wants, including suppress without comment stories or ideas management (or a well-placed employee) does not like. :/ Something to keep in mind.

Oh, agreed.

But Yahoo likewise is a private company, competing against Google in fact for usage, and would seemingly not have similar/identical co-incidental motivations, no?

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-03-01   13:44:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Seemingly. Perhaps it is a question of diversity.

Tauzero  posted on  2006-03-01   13:55:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

how strange is this? and, of course, this makes me wonder again just who *that poster* really was.

christine  posted on  2006-03-01   14:13:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Neil, can you imagine any F4um software changes (robot.txt??) that would drop the thread from view by crawlers?

Peculiar indeed! To anwer the question, no, there are no changes made with regard to indexing. I did recently add a blank robots.txt file to keep the error log from filling with useless warnings about it not being found by the spiders, but a blank robots file is the same as an empty one.

Other notes:

The site in indexable via "www.freedom4um.com", "freedom4um.com" and/or "216.133.76.156", but google searched with those names come up dry as well.

I've played around with the searches but was also unable to find the articles posted immediately before and after the Metzinger article. I did a similar search as you described, but looked instead for "Artnum=xxxx" where "xxxx" is the number appearing in the URL. I.e. searching on "site:freedom4um.com: Artnum=17934" should turn up the article on Metzinger.

I've not been able to have google return any hits on any articles above 10482 or so, though there are apparently "holes" in their search records with preceeding articles, so maybe there are articles indexed since that time. 4um now has over 20,000 articles (this one is 20598), but if you say it was indexed until recently, then in my best estimation, the only thing that could have changed is Google itself.

I did succussfully locate the source of 4um's article on Metzinger on google: "site:nbc5i.com Metzinger", so it seems it's not the article itself or "Metzinger" that has been purged.

This is sufficient to make me paranoid against google. Maybe they have more to be concerned about in turning over their search records to DHS than the privacy of their users...

BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder.
-- George Bonser

Neil McIver  posted on  2006-03-01   14:13:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

how strange is this? and, of course, this makes me wonder again just who *that poster* really was.

Yes, who brought this to google's attention?

"This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector." ~Plato

robin  posted on  2006-03-01   14:24:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You may find this interesting..

Zipporah  posted on  2006-03-01   14:38:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I did recently add a blank robots.txt file to keep the error log from filling with useless warnings about it not being found by the spiders, but a blank robots file is the same as an empty one.

Can you tell us when (date) this change was made?

Perhaps a blank robot.txt file is *not* handled by Google or Yahoo as it ought to be?

I'd like (or perhaps you might) check for Google or All the Web searches on threads posted after the date robot.txt was changed? See if any thing shows up?

Perhaps a "not quite blank" robot.txt file would be better, something that perhaps directs crawlers to ignore a directory that doesn't exist?

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-03-01   14:38:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

FYI..

Zipporah  posted on  2006-03-01   14:45:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Well I’ll be damned. Nice work star. My best guess is that our friend “Richard” was here to spin the story. We suspected as much. Our 4um thread is very damaging to his testimony (if he was a witness) or to that of the city (if he was spinning for them). I agree Michelle’s legal team should be notified about the apparent scrubbing by google/yahoo. I PM’d ruthie a while back and told her I’d be glad to come down to Dallas on Michelle’s behalf, if it would help. She has my private email addy, and I have hers. This is all very curious.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-03-01   14:58:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I've not been able to have google return any hits on any articles above 10482 or so, though there are apparently "holes" in their search records with preceeding articles, so maybe there are articles indexed since that time. 4um now has over 20,000 articles (this one is 20598), but if you say it was indexed until recently, then in my best estimation, the only thing that could have changed is Google itself.

Well, I didn't closely check what date or version was the indexed Michelle thread as I assumed I knew what the hit was.

However, upon further testing, t'would seem Google stopped indexing Freedom4um as of September of 2005, judging by the hits on the Market Wrapup threads (which are posted every weekday evening):

[Google search] site:www. freedom4um.com "Market WrapUp (01" "06)"

produced no hits, and

[Google search] site:www. freedom4um.com "Market WrapUp (09" "05)"

producted no hits, whereas:

[Google search] site:www.freedom4um.com "Market WrapUp (08" "05) " produced some 15,300 hits, the '08-10-05' wrapup thread being ArtNum=10040

It would seem Google stopped indexing Freedom4um altogether last year, not just the Metzinger thread.

Ruthie, note this does not (at this point anyhow) appear to be an issue specific to Michelle, but something involving the forum itself.

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-03-01   16:21:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

However, upon further testing, t'would seem Google stopped indexing Freedom4um as of September of 2005

Now that's even more bizarre ..?

Zipporah  posted on  2006-03-01   16:24:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

... but I know the "(Dallas) Police Deny Excessive Force In Bloody Arrest (black cop, white girl)" thread appeared in Google searches and it was posted "Post Date: 2006-01-16 20:18:09 by BTP Holdings"

So, maybe Google is having some problems with its server farm? Maybe the servers wherein the indexes for this thread and other freedom4um threads are kept are unavailable/offline temporarily?

I have noticed some other odd behavior in Google searches I've done recently on entirely innocuous subjects.

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-03-01   16:28:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Artnum= site:freedom4um.com yields about 2400 hits, not 20k.

I have no idea if that's normal behavior or not, but I suspect it is.

Tauzero  posted on  2006-03-01   16:48:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

On the bright side, Google knows about article number 19460.

Tauzero  posted on  2006-03-01   16:57:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Artnum= site:freedom4um.com yields about 2400 hits, not 20k.

about 23,500 from site:www.freedom4um.com for "ArtNum=".

The domain prefix 'www' is important in how Google indexes and searches sites. It wasn't always so... it used to be smarter (IRC) one of those oddities of which I spoke.

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-03-01   17:07:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

When did tos4truth expire?

Tauzero  posted on  2006-03-01   17:23:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

When did tos4truth expire?

Feb 2, 2006 (or maybe late Feb 1)

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-03-01   17:29:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Can you tell us when (date) this change was made?

The file is dated Feb 18, so that's when it was.

Perhaps a blank robot.txt file is *not* handled by Google or Yahoo as it ought to be?

Very doubtful that their engine is not conformed to standards. I checked when I installed it to ensure a blank file is interpreted as an open door (treated the same as no robots file existing) and a net source confirmed that to me. Never hurts to double check though.

I'd like (or perhaps you might) check for Google or All the Web searches on threads posted after the date robot.txt was changed? See if any thing shows up?

I would expect some time delay for new postings to be indexed.

Perhaps a "not quite blank" robot.txt file would be better, something that perhaps directs crawlers to ignore a directory that doesn't exist?

I didn't put it in to make it ignore anything. I only put it in to prevent the apache server from logging an error everytime it's requested, as it accounted for a fair portion of those error entries.

BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder.
-- George Bonser

Neil McIver  posted on  2006-03-01   18:28:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The file is dated Feb 18, so that's when it was.

Ok, but no Google hits for
site:www.freedom4um.com
"Market WrapUp (02-08-06)" thru "Market WrapUp (02-15-06)"

So, it would seem to not be related to the robots.txt change, and regardless that would seem to be an innocuous and valid change.

Can you tell from the robots.txt warnings when was the last time Google crawled the forum?

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-03-01   18:40:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Well, there are 2 stages to the process. The indexing is the collection of the sites, but the second stage is making it available. If you found the Metzinger story indexed on google 2 weeks ago but not now, then obviously it was indexed, and there are still older 4um articles indexed right now.

I think it's safe to say that *either* google removed that page from their index OR it's still there and they added a filter on the other side of their system where people do searches to block those would-be hits from showing. Either of those actions would have to have taken place since you saw the positive results of weeks ago.

This is not a case of Metzinger's name being filtered upon end users (us) doing searches on their page, as none of the other text combos turn up on google either, so I'm confident the entire 4um page has been either blocked or removed from their index.

What's not certain is the reason why. It's possible they regularly purge web pages from their site on occasion just to keep fresh results, or there's some other rotation criteria they use. Maybe pages of url's that contain "cgi-bin" are given less life expectancy because that usually a sign that the content is dynamic / changing. Of course they may also be engaging in outright censorship. It's speculation either way.

BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder.
-- George Bonser

Neil McIver  posted on  2006-03-01   18:40:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Yes, who brought this to google's attention?

Assuming google is censoring here, it doesn't mean that anyone specifically reported 4um to googel and said "remove this page from your index". It's possible (I'd guess likely) that given an outright political censorship scenario on this particular case (assuming), google probably ran a general scan on their index for pages that contained her name along with certain words (inflamatory, perhaps), and removed any that turned up positive. That would be far more efficient, perhaps. That would explain why the original source article is still indexed on the news site and not 4um's page.

It doesn't mean they don't hand censor. It may well have been. It just doesn't have to be that way. I should mention that if it was active censorship AND they do have an automated system for censoring, it would strongly suggest a the practice is not unique to Metzinger's case.

If.

BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder.
-- George Bonser

Neil McIver  posted on  2006-03-01   18:51:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Your theory could be proved perhaps by running the same check against LibertyForum or someother blog with a good chance of inflammatory titles and references to what happened to her.

I doubt if google does anything manually, but they must have some database of phrases/words (with context) that is being created. And, those phrases/words must be entered by someone at least once, I imagine.

"This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector." ~Plato

robin  posted on  2006-03-01   18:59:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Can you tell from the robots.txt warnings when was the last time Google crawled the forum?

It's done constantly. 2500 times so far today (since 4 AM), the last one within the last 12 minutes.

I don't think google is to blame for this, but it just so happens that the last time the forum went down due to the error long being spammed 5000 times per second by apache complaining that mysql was unreachable, the IP that was tied to that error was google's. That was on the 15th and part of the fallout from that was my creation of the robots file to reduce the error log size.

That error was associated with PostLiberty, not 4um.

BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder.
-- George Bonser

Neil McIver  posted on  2006-03-01   19:12:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It's done constantly. 2500 times so far today (since 4 AM), the last one within the last 12 minutes.

OMG!

They're watching us!!! And hiding the evidence. They're really just a mirror for

Carnivore

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-03-01   19:16:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Your theory could be proved perhaps by running the same check against LibertyForum or someother blog with a good chance of inflammatory titles and references to what happened to her.

Exactly. Do a search on Metzinger and see if other discussion forums come up, or if all hits are news-only sites.

I doubt if google does anything manually, but they must have some database of phrases/words (with context) that is being created. And, those phrases/words must be entered by someone at least once, I imagine.

Again, yes. That second DB wouldn't necessarily have to be a permanent type thing, though. But *if* there is some politically machined censorship here, then it would require special hand work somewhere along the line. Absolutely.

BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder.
-- George Bonser

Neil McIver  posted on  2006-03-01   19:16:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Yes, I didn't think it would be so much, but that's how many entries there are claiming to be "googlebot" so far today. Maybe someone's MSIE browser is set to report that, but I doubt it. The article searches are random. No rhyme or reason that I can see.

BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder.
-- George Bonser

Neil McIver  posted on  2006-03-01   19:19:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Carnivore

I think carnivore was originally billed as a passive scanner that sits on an ISP and watches all traffic that passes through a pipe leading to a particlular live user, not an active search device for web sites.

But that was a long time ago, and Big Brother isn't in the habit of talking about the latest spy techniques.

Still, you shouldn't underestimate the resources available to a mega corp with shares valued in the $300-$500 range. They certainly have a nice army of computers.

BTW: I have a better name for the software .... Microsoft Internet Exploder.
-- George Bonser

Neil McIver  posted on  2006-03-01   19:26:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Do a search on Metzinger and see if other discussion forums come up, or if all hits are news-only sites.

I did do this BTW, several forums come up, inlcuding an article posted on LP, but not F4um's (or seemingly any Freedom4um hits since Sept '05 - unless as I wondered its a problem at google's server farm).

[Google search] "Michelle Metzinger" OR "Ceaphus Gordon"

Given the fact they're crawling the site constantly, but reporting no hits, I'd say there's enough factual data at this point to ask Google if they have a problem and/or explanation for no recent F4um hits when searching?

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-03-01   19:29:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Out of curiousity I googled "michelle metzinger 4um" and got one hit, which caused my computer to warn me not to proceed, it said the certificate was hinky and theft of personal information was likely.

Without the Metzinger I got some Malkin hits, but nothing on Metzinger at all.

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2006-03-01   19:33:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

it said the certificate was hinky and theft of personal information was likely

Yeah.. did you mean this hit?

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-03-01   19:41:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

When I read threads like these, I get this feeling I'm outside myself watching me read it, and knowing it's a done deal, completley over. I can't stand a society that promotes this. It's like I want to be anywhere but here, yet know it would be just the same.

I'm waiting for the speakers in the sky to proclaim,

ATTENTION PLANET EARTH! ATTENTION PLANET EARTH!

WE HAVE ASSUMED CONTROL!

Ragin1  posted on  2006-03-01   19:49:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

LOL!

This is the hit I'm getting, but for pete's sake don't actually go there unless you know your system is secure

https://koeln.ccc.de/~drt/hosts.gz

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2006-03-01   19:49:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It's okay though if they address ALL PLANETS OF THE SOLAR FEDERATION, 'cause that means cave dwelling guitar freaks are in charge.

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2006-03-01   19:52:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

don't actually go there unless you know your system is secure

I'm pretty well button'd up but I'm not inclined to test it. That could be a poorly disguised attempt to alter a hosts.etc file.

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-03-01   19:54:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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