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Immigration
See other Immigration Articles

Title: We Don't Need "Guest Workers"
Source: Washington Post
URL Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy ... 006/03/21/AR2006032101146.html
Published: Mar 22, 2006
Author: Robert J. Samuelson
Post Date: 2006-03-22 21:50:54 by Peetie Wheatstraw
Keywords: Workers", "Guest, Dont
Views: 311
Comments: 26

Economist Philip Martin of the University of California likes to tell a story about the state's tomato industry. In the early 1960s, growers relied on seasonal Mexican laborers, brought in under the government's "bracero" program. The Mexicans picked the tomatoes that were then processed into ketchup and other products. In 1964 Congress killed the program despite growers' warnings that its abolition would doom their industry. What happened? Well, plant scientists developed oblong tomatoes that could be harvested by machine. Since then, California's tomato output has risen fivefold.

It's a story worth remembering, because we're being warned again that we need huge numbers of "guest workers" -- meaning unskilled laborers from Mexico and Central America -- to relieve U.S. "labor shortages." Indeed, the shortages will supposedly worsen as baby boomers retire. President Bush wants an open-ended program. Sens. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) advocate initially admitting 400,000 guest workers annually. The Senate is considering these and other plans.

Gosh, they're all bad ideas.

Guest workers would mainly legalize today's vast inflows of illegal immigrants, with the same consequence: We'd be importing poverty. This isn't because these immigrants aren't hardworking; many are. Nor is it because they don't assimilate; many do. But they generally don't go home, assimilation is slow and the ranks of the poor are constantly replenished. Since 1980 the number of Hispanics with incomes below the government's poverty line (about $19,300 in 2004 for a family of four) has risen 162 percent. Over the same period, the number of non-Hispanic whites in poverty rose 3 percent and the number of blacks, 9.5 percent. What we have now -- and would with guest workers -- is a conscious policy of creating poverty in the United States while relieving it in Mexico. By and large, this is a bad bargain for the United States. It stresses local schools, hospitals and housing; it feeds social tensions (witness the Minutemen). To be sure, some Americans get cheap housecleaning or landscaping services. But if more mowed their own lawns or did their own laundry, it wouldn't be a tragedy.

The most lunatic notion is that admitting more poor Latino workers would ease the labor market strains of retiring baby boomers. The two aren't close substitutes for each other. Among immigrant Mexican and Central American workers in 2004, only 7 percent had a college degree and nearly 60 percent lacked a high school diploma, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Among native-born U.S. workers, 32 percent had a college degree and only 6 percent did not have a high school diploma. Far from softening the social problems of an aging society, more poor immigrants might aggravate them by pitting older retirees against younger Hispanics for limited government benefits.

It's a myth that the U.S. economy "needs" more poor immigrants. The illegal immigrants already here represent only about 4.9 percent of the labor force, the Pew Hispanic Center reports. In no major occupation are they a majority. They're 36 percent of insulation workers, 28 percent of drywall installers and 20 percent of cooks. They're drawn here by wage differences, not labor "shortages." In 2004, the median hourly wage in Mexico was $1.86, compared with $9 for Mexicans working in the United States, said Rakesh Kochhar of Pew. With high labor turnover in the jobs they take, most new illegal immigrants can get work by accepting wages slightly below prevailing levels.

Hardly anyone thinks that most illegal immigrants will leave. But what would happen if new illegal immigration stopped and wasn't replaced by guest workers? Well, some employers would raise wages to attract U.S. workers. Facing greater labor costs, some industries would -- like the tomato growers in the 1960s -- find ways to minimize those costs. As to the rest, what's wrong with higher wages for the poorest workers? From 1994 to 2004, the wages of high school dropouts rose only 2.3 percent (after inflation) compared with 11.9 percent for college graduates.

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#1. To: *The Border* (#0)

ping!

Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths...I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? ~Barbara Bush on ABC's "Good Morning America," March 18, 2003.

robin  posted on  2006-03-22   22:12:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: robin (#1)

in 2000 there were 69-70% of US adults 21 - 65 had jobs, in 2005 I think it might've gone below 64% even. it was under 65% a year or so ago.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-03-22   22:19:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#0)

What people do not realize is that when our population went above 150,000,000 we had to import raw materials. To pay for raw materials we have to export something foreigners will buy so we can earn foreign currencies to pay for our raw materials.

That means that anyone who supports either legal and/or illegal immigration SUPPORTS THE DEVALUATION OF THE DOLLAR WHICH MEANS THAT THEY FULLY SUPPORT CUTTING WAGES, PENSIONS AND SAVINGS WHILE INCREASING THE COST OF IMPORTED GOODS.

We have avoided all serious wage and pension cuts until now because we print dollars and pretend they are good as gold. The dollar is through. We will soon face wage cuts of more than 50% and pension cuts of 90% when the dollar charade ends.

Horse  posted on  2006-03-22   23:11:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Horse (#3)

But will the NeoCrazies and the ZioNazis leave us finally when things get that bad?

Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths...I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? ~Barbara Bush on ABC's "Good Morning America," March 18, 2003.

robin  posted on  2006-03-22   23:16:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#0)

But they generally don't go home

Real guests eventually leave.

This isn't because these immigrants aren't hardworking; many are.

Indeed, despite the attendant pathologies, they are a step up from the previous largest minority.

In the Chicago area we've got all kinds. Probably most prominent are the Polish (one of my wife's acquaintances is an illegal polish gal) and Mexicans. Old polish ladies bereft of English seem to do a lot of the commercial cleaning in suburban office spaces.

Neither of those two groups have any illusions about blacks. My wife is slowly learning too -- experience is trumping her "education". Two things recently very much got under her skin. First, she ordered two pieces of furniture, on two different occasions, from a local furniture retailer. Delivery was probably sub-contracted. The first piece was delivered by a Mexican crew; they were efficient, careful, polite, and removed their shoes without prompting. The second piece was delivered by a black crew; they refused her request to remove their shoes. Two weeks ago we moved into our first house. We used a local mover that came highly recommended. The crew that showed up was black. I should've just turned them away. They were quite loud and quarrelsome among themselves; they didn't know how to pack, and left some items after they inefficiently filled the truck, deciding one trip was enough. They gave most of our furniture some free distressing, and padded the time they spent.


You see, for every three or four rednecks who think that all African-Americans are Willie Horton; there are one or two white liberals who think that all African-Americans are Langston Hughes. Both sides are, of course, wrong. All African-Americans are, in fact, Jimmy "J.J." Walker.

-- Rodney Anonymous

Tauzero  posted on  2006-03-22   23:19:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Tauzero (#5)

There are increasing violent clashes between blacks and Hispanics in Southern California. Just yesterday a school in South LA (for those unfamiliar with the area: essentially a vast ghetto) had to be shut down and riot police brought in because of a (typical) lunch time fight between "gangs" (black vs. Mexican) that escalated to involve scores on each side. That sort of thing happens all the time here now.

Our ancestors fought and died for their liberties and ours. If we are worthy of them, we must be prepared to do likewise.

Peetie Wheatstraw  posted on  2006-03-22   23:27:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: robin (#4)

But will the NeoCrazies and the ZioNazis leave us finally when things get that bad

Obviously, the plan all along was to destroy America because it would oppose any World Government that turned white people into slaves. What they are planning to do is to carve America up into several waring nation states divided by race and ethnicity. I have been told by people from China who know and talk to Red Chinese agents in this country that California and the West Coast would be given to the PRC by the UN after the dollar collapses.

They told me that younger people agree with them that the UN is sovereign and that we must obey any dictate from them. In short they will never leave us alone.

Horse  posted on  2006-03-22   23:29:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Horse (#7)

The best laid plans o' mice and men gang aft agley.

Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths...I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? ~Barbara Bush on ABC's "Good Morning America," March 18, 2003.

robin  posted on  2006-03-22   23:33:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Tauzero (#5)

Another thing your interesting post made me think of is the Brechtian quip that VDare's Peter Brimelow is fond of quoting about "electing a new people." In the case of mass Hispanic immigration it certainly appears that our plutocratic elites have decided to "elect" a new laboring class by that method. I can remember back 25 years ago seeing a TIME magazine cover that proclaimed Hispanics would "soon be our largest minority"---that didn't happen until some two decades later, so you know that some real advance planning went into that statement. I think that to be candid, blacks simply ceased to be good reliable laborers after the Civil Rights and Welfare Revolutions of the 1960's. There were too many "grievances" they had against the "White Man"; there were too many "rights" they had to assert; there was the ever inviting "safety net" of welfare and ever more feebly combatted crime that provided tempting alternatives to working for a living. Blacks through these factors essentially "priced" themselves out of the labor market, and made the captains of industry turn to a solution they'd used before: mass immigration from impoverished nations, especially Mexico.

Our ancestors fought and died for their liberties and ours. If we are worthy of them, we must be prepared to do likewise.

Peetie Wheatstraw  posted on  2006-03-22   23:42:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#9)

What I don't get, Peetie, is how long they think that Hispanics are gonna stay happy with being the n*gg*rs of the New World. They're not stupid by a long shot, and many, if not most of them are good family people and hard workers from what I've seen. The Mexicans anyway. At some point they're gonna rise up and say they don't want to take this shit either, and they're gonna unionize and fight for better wages and working conditions. Look at how the poor workers of Dubai are fighting right now!!!

The elite may always be looking for slaves, but there will always be a Spartacus to free them.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-03-22   23:48:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: mehitable (#10)

What I don't get, Peetie, is how long they think that Hispanics are gonna stay happy with being the n*gg*rs of the New World. They're not stupid by a long shot, and many, if not most of them are good family people and hard workers from what I've seen. The Mexicans anyway. At some point they're gonna rise up and say they don't want to take this shit either, and they're gonna unionize and fight for better wages and working conditions. Look at how the poor workers of Dubai are fighting right now!!!

As usually, you're spot on. Second generation Hispanics here in the "Golden State" seem almost as prone as blacks to "gang-banging" (which doesn't refer to rape out here, but to violent gang clashes), drug-dealing, violent crime. Those in the second generation are the kids that are "jacking" black kids at school, and attacking and often killing blacks that get on their "turf."

And they bring their own "grievances" into this country from Mexico, especially the firm belief that the American Southwest has never legitimately been part of the US but is still even after 150 years part of Mexico. Drive around LA and you'll eventually catch sight of a popular bumper sticker that gently assures you: "Fuck you---this is MEXICO!" We're importing a future disaster for our country with all these tens of millions of people---trust me.

Our ancestors fought and died for their liberties and ours. If we are worthy of them, we must be prepared to do likewise.

Peetie Wheatstraw  posted on  2006-03-22   23:59:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#11)

"Golden State"

It's mine too Peetie, but La Raza has other plans. Viva La Banana Republica!

Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths...I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? ~Barbara Bush on ABC's "Good Morning America," March 18, 2003.

robin  posted on  2006-03-23   0:02:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#11)

We're already seeing the Hispanic gang problem here in Boston. I've noticed a lot of graffiti tags in this neighborhood (which never had Hispanics even 5 years ago) that say "Aztec".

The elites are dreaming if they think these folks are going just going to take their crap for generations and be their serfs. These folks are not like that and they're aggressive, and they have no inferiority complex and few inhibitions. But I guess there's nothing we can do - I feel like I've been yelling into the wind for the past 20 years and I'm just getting laryngitis.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-03-23   0:09:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#11)

Drive around LA and you'll eventually catch sight of a popular bumper sticker that gently assures you: "Fuck you---this is MEXICO!"

I've been telling people for the past few years now that in another generation or two several of our southwestern states and California are going to become part of Mexico as the Mexican populations will be so large we won't be able to prevent it. It will be like having Iraq here on our doorstep. Either that or we will simply annex the entire country of Mexico and become the super United States of North America (along with Canada but they won't much mind as long as they can keep their beer and weed). I don't think that's gonna happen though as I think Mexico will actually want the upper hand and considering how we're degenerating, they might be able to get it.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-03-23   0:12:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: mehitable, Peetie Wheatstraw (#14)

The Second Civil War

Hilarious movie. Funny, they don't re-air it at all anymore.

The mayor of Los Angeles speaks only spanish, the governor of Rhode Island speaks only chinese.

Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths...I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? ~Barbara Bush on ABC's "Good Morning America," March 18, 2003.

robin  posted on  2006-03-23   0:14:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#9)

I think that to be candid, blacks simply ceased to be good reliable laborers after the Civil Rights and Welfare Revolutions of the 1960's.

Yes. The two things combined enabled blacks to revert to phenotype, with more African-like family structure and family provisioning. The reproductive incentives made things much worse, with intelligent blacks, just like whites, failing to reproduce themselves; the worst are the most fecund. (I frequently wonder whether human intelligence is inherently self-limiting. To paraphrase Arthur C. Clarke, any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from psychosis.)

Whites are about 30 years behind blacks in terms of pathology, but they'll probably catch up, assuming the system does not collapse first.

Sowell rightly notes how liberal programs have had precisely opposite the promised results, and that prior to the "civil rights" movement and the "great society" American blacks had much lower rates of crime than today and much higher rates of intact families, though still not quite at the same levels as whites. Absence of welfare and the rigors of Jim Crow ironically provided an illusion of equality.


You see, for every three or four rednecks who think that all African-Americans are Willie Horton; there are one or two white liberals who think that all African-Americans are Langston Hughes. Both sides are, of course, wrong. All African-Americans are, in fact, Jimmy "J.J." Walker.

-- Rodney Anonymous

Tauzero  posted on  2006-03-23   0:15:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: mehitable (#14)

We will simply annex the entire country of Mexico and become the super United States of North America (along with Canada but they won't much mind as long as they can keep their beer and weed).

Cue the "Hispanic Bush" -- fairly good chance he's being groomed for precisely this. King of the Tex-Mex Camelot.


You see, for every three or four rednecks who think that all African-Americans are Willie Horton; there are one or two white liberals who think that all African-Americans are Langston Hughes. Both sides are, of course, wrong. All African-Americans are, in fact, Jimmy "J.J." Walker.

-- Rodney Anonymous

Tauzero  posted on  2006-03-23   0:18:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#11)

Second generation Hispanics here in the "Golden State" seem almost as prone as blacks to "gang-banging" (which doesn't refer to rape out here, but to violent gang clashes), drug-dealing, violent crime.

The marvels of the welfare state.

Unfortunately for blacks, Mexicans seem better at the gangsta gig, too.


You see, for every three or four rednecks who think that all African-Americans are Willie Horton; there are one or two white liberals who think that all African-Americans are Langston Hughes. Both sides are, of course, wrong. All African-Americans are, in fact, Jimmy "J.J." Walker.

-- Rodney Anonymous

Tauzero  posted on  2006-03-23   0:21:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: robin (#15)

The mayor of Los Angeles speaks only spanish

I think this has actually come to pass....lol.

I've never even heard of that movie - sounds MOST unPC. It's probably in the bottom of a tube of plutonium waste buried in the Nevada desert.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-03-23   0:21:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Tauzero (#17)

Young Jorge Arbusto? That is very prescient of you, T. A family like the Bush's probably doesn't marry or produce children casually - they probably have a long range plan. I'm just wondering why none of them have married Arabs yet.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-03-23   0:23:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: mehitable (#19)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120086/plotsummary

Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths...I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? ~Barbara Bush on ABC's "Good Morning America," March 18, 2003.

robin  posted on  2006-03-23   0:25:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: robin (#21)

Rob, this is kind of spooky. Sounds like the plot was written by Nostradamus.

Hey did you hear about the 7000 Turkish Muslims (some obscure tribe) that Bush is having moved to Pennsylvania? The Pakistani orphans reminded me of that.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-03-23   0:30:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Tauzero (#18)

Unfortunately for blacks, Mexicans seem better at the gangsta gig, too.

They're taking "territory" from black gangs all over LA. In prison, the blacks beg to be separated from the Mexicans---that's how bad it is for them there.

Our ancestors fought and died for their liberties and ours. If we are worthy of them, we must be prepared to do likewise.

Peetie Wheatstraw  posted on  2006-03-23   0:39:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: mehitable (#22)

Hey did you hear about the 7000 Turkish Muslims (some obscure tribe) that Bush is having moved to Pennsylvania?

Nein! All the PA Deutschers in my family tree are rolling their graves! And so are all the Crusaders!

OTOH, the Turkish GastArbeiters in Deutschland are taking over the Fatherland anyway. Recently Helmut Schmidt (Chancellor of Germany 74-82) referred to the program as "a bit of a boo-boo".

Interviewed in a Hamburg newspaper last month, Mr. Schmidt confessed, "The concept of multiculturalism is difficult to make fit with a democratic society" and that importing thousands of Turkish "gastarbeiter," or foreign guest workers, into Germany over the last several decades was a bit of a boo-boo.

Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths...I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? ~Barbara Bush on ABC's "Good Morning America," March 18, 2003.

robin  posted on  2006-03-23   9:43:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: mehitable (#22)

This one is almost funny - Muchas Gracias, El Presidente Bush

Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths...I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? ~Barbara Bush on ABC's "Good Morning America," March 18, 2003.

robin  posted on  2006-03-23   9:53:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Peetie Wheatstraw, Tauzero (#23)

Unfortunately for blacks, Mexicans seem better at the gangsta gig, too.

They're taking "territory" from black gangs all over LA. In prison, the blacks beg to be separated from the Mexicans---that's how bad it is for them there.

There are many strong and influential support organizations for illegals (including the Catholic Church).

Latino stats

Prison riot in L.A.
The violence began at the North County Correctional Facility, part of the Pitchess Detention Center, in Castaic. The first outbreak—which by all accounts was instigated by leaders of the Mexican Mafia as means of establishing dominance over rival black gangs—involved hundreds of inmates.

This is a numbers game, and latinos are now the largest minority in the U.S. and the largest group in many places in the Southwest (including the prison population).

La Raza complains here in 2002:

Hispanics are overrepresented in the Latino criminal justice system; Latinos in prison constitute three times their share of the total U.S. population. Moreover, Hispanics served prison sentences that were 14 months longer, on average, than their non-Latino counterparts.

Black are sent more often for drug related offenses

Blacks have also been disproportionately affected by the national "war on drugs", carried out primarily through the arrest, prosecution and imprisonment of street level drug offenders from inner city communities. In 1996, for example, blacks constituted 62.6 percent of all drug offenders admitted to state prisons. In at least fifteen states, black men were sent to prison on drug charges at rates ranging from twenty to fifty-seven times those of white men.7

(from 2002 - same link) Incarceration of Hispanics

· In nine states, between 4 and nearly 8 percent of adult Latino men are incarcerated.

· In twelve states, between 2 and 4 percent of Hispanic adults (men and women) are incarcerated.

· In ten states, Latino men are incarcerated at rates between five and nine times greater than those of white men.

· In eight states, Latina women are incarcerated rates that are between four and seven times greater than those of white women.

· In four states, Hispanic youth under age eighteen are incarcerated in adult facilities at rates between seven and seventeen times greater than those of white youth.

Nearly 1 in 3 (32%) persons held in federal prisons is Hispanic.

Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths...I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? ~Barbara Bush on ABC's "Good Morning America," March 18, 2003.

robin  posted on  2006-03-23   10:07:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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