4um: Ironic

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Title: Ironic
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Published: Dec 8, 2019
Author: sneakypete
Post Date: 2019-12-08 12:47:32 by sneakypete
Keywords: Nazi, Jew, Religion, America
Views: 1221
Comments: 29

Am I the only one that finds it ironic that a site known as the Freedom Forum is now overran with Nazi's?
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#1. To: sneakypete (#0)
Jews make democracy impossible.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
Horse posted on 2019-12-08 13:07:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2. To: sneakypete (#0)
Freedom Forum is now overran with Nazi's?

How so? Can you cite one instance of this? ;)
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
BTP Holdings posted on 2019-12-08 13:08:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#3. To: sneakypete (#0) (Edited)
Look at videos of WTC 7 collapsing on 911. It was never hit by a plane. How did it collapse in 6.5 seconds? Nobody has come up with an explanation so far that has merit.
911: Short And Powerful Questions
https://vidrebel.wordpress.com/2011/08/04/911-short-and-powerful-questions/
Read the above article. Answer half the questions and then tell me it wasn't Israel with an assist from Larry Silverstein who did this.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
Horse posted on 2019-12-08 18:25:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#4. To: Dakmar, 4um (#0)
Freedom Forum is now overran with Nazi's

Dammit, Dakkie! Are you trying to steal Poland AGAIN?
On the bright side, not many Grammarly users here.
Oh, shit! I get it now, I'm the punctuation Nazi. Apparently, I'm an "ARMY OF ONE."
Effin" cool!
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long. - Dr. Eldon Tyrell
Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)

Esso posted on 2019-12-08 19:41:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#5. To: Horse (#1)
Jews make democracy impossible.

And Nazi's make slavery to the state a certainty.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
sneakypete posted on 2019-12-08 22:29:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#6. To: BTP Holdings (#2)
How so? Can you cite one instance of this? ;)

Yes,but it is a deep dark secret,and I don't want to burst your bubble.
I will give you a hint,though. Look for posts condemning Jews for everything.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
sneakypete posted on 2019-12-08 22:30:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#7. To: sneakypete (#6)
Do you have any specific examples of false condemnations of the chosen?
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2019-12-08 22:42:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#8. To: sneakypete, 4um (#6) (Edited)
Look for posts condemning Jews for everything.

Why don't you put the apostrophe in Jews like you do Nazis?
C'mon, lighten up, fella. We all like you, but remember: "Even a dog can determine between being being stumbled over and being kicked."
Get off your philojew shit or go away. Look at the ZeroHedge link and comments, you're in the pitiful minority.
Move to Israel, if you're not already there. Quit trying to fuck up the world.
(edit) Damn, Pete, if there was all them Nazis here, they'd really be stomping you're ass. Pretty much I know, most everybody here is cool, no Nazis.
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long. - Dr. Eldon Tyrell
Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)

Esso posted on 2019-12-08 23:18:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#9. To: sneakypete (#6)
petey,
Pebbles has me banned. I don't post much these days, but I don't like being given the JimRobberson treatment.

Fred Mertz posted on 2019-12-08 23:34:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#10. To: sneakypete (#5)
During WW II, the Nazis would have been better for the people than Judaism Inc's Russian branch, better known as Communism. The Allies killed more concentration camp survivors after the war was over than the Nazis killed in the camps during the war. General Walter Doernberger fired V2 rockets at London. The V2 rockets were made by Slavic and Jewish inmates of Dachau at a satellite camp.
In 1936 people in Germany owned property, not so in the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union killed millions of innocent people every year in the 1930s. The Nazis didn't even do that during the war. Germans were free to emigrate, not so Soviet citizens.
Holy Holohoax. My Government Wouldn’t Lie To Me.
https://vidrebel.wordpress.com/2012/04/21/holy-holohoax-my-government-wouldnt-lie-to-me/
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
Horse posted on 2019-12-09 3:05:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#11. To: Esso (#4)
Are you trying to steal Poland AGAIN?

And I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!
“I am not one of those weak-spirited, sappy Americans who want to be liked by all the people around them. I don’t care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. My affections, being concentrated over a few people, are not spread all over Hell in a vile attempt to placate sulky, worthless shits.” - William S Burroughs
Dakmar posted on 2019-12-09 7:55:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#12. To: Fred Mertz (#9)
Pebbles has me banned.

If you are banned,how did you post that?
Or does he have you cut down to 3 posts a day,or something like that?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
sneakypete posted on 2019-12-09 20:46:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#13. To: Esso (#8)
Why don't you put the apostrophe in Jews like you do Nazis?

Why would I?
Are you the grammar police here?
Move to Israel, if you're not already there. Quit trying to fuck up the world.
Yeah,no neo-Nazi's here is there,Reinhardt?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
sneakypete posted on 2019-12-09 20:49:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#14. To: Fred Mertz (#9)
BTW,I hadn't seen a post from you in so long I was guessing you had been banned.
Is there somewhere else you post on a regular basis?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
sneakypete posted on 2019-12-09 20:50:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#15. To: Horse (#10)
In 1936 people in Germany owned property, not so in the Soviet Union.

There can be no doubt about Nazism being preferable to Communism,but that's a lot like saying it's better to be run through a shredder than chewed to death by wolves. NOBODY is free to live their lives under either system.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
sneakypete posted on 2019-12-09 20:54:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#16. To: sneakypete (#14)
Is there somewhere else you post on a regular basis?

Here and LibertyFarce, Pebble's site. I'm fine, but after 21 years of posting I've lightened up and don't participate much although I visit daily to both sites. Will stop visiting LibertyFarce soon.

Fred Mertz posted on 2019-12-09 22:59:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#17. To: sneakypete (#15)
But the people of that era did not have choices other than Nazis and Communists. The Evil Ones are the Ones Who Own Her Majesty's Jewish government. The German Generals offered to surrender in March of 1939. The Bankers of London decided to kill 58 million people rather than to let the Germans surrender and arrest Hitler.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
Horse posted on 2019-12-10 2:38:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#18. To: Horse (#17)
But the people of that era did not have choices other than Nazis and Communists.

Yes,they did,and they/we chose to not follow the retards. We even decided it was better to go to war with them than to join them.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
sneakypete posted on 2019-12-10 10:56:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#19. To: Fred Mertz (#16)
I don't post as much as I used too,either. Don't even visit most political sites. This one,Liberty Flame,and The GOP Briefing Room,and that's it. Do most of my posting at the Briefing room.
Just don't have the time or the interest any more. Getting old and burned out on politics.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
sneakypete posted on 2019-12-10 11:00:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#20. To: sneakypete (#18)
I was talking about the people of Europe. In the US and UK His Majesty's Jewish Government decided to refuse to allow the German Generals to arrest Hitler to avoid war. The Allies killed 58 million people after the German Generals first offered to surrender in March of 1939 and the Japanese Emperor had first offered to surrender to FDR in 1936. There is less choice than you think.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
Horse posted on 2019-12-10 12:22:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#21. To: Horse (#20)
I was talking about the people of Europe. In the US and UK His Majesty's Jewish Government decided to refuse to allow the German Generals to arrest Hitler to avoid war. The Allies killed 58 million people after the German Generals first offered to surrender in March of 1939 and the Japanese Emperor had first offered to surrender to FDR in 1936. There is less choice than you think.

I was aware of the Japanese deal,and as tragic as it was,it was necessary. We HAD to beat the Japanese down to the point where the Emperor was willing to go on the radio and announce to the people he was surrendering,or the war would have never ended.
When you think about it,it was pretty much the same with the Nazi's,and will be the same with the Muslims. They are more religions than governments,and the followers will continue to fight to the last man,woman,or child unless they are utterly defeated and the BIG Muckety Mucks announce in public that it is all over.
Truth to tell,I am not even sure it will work with the Muslims. Every damn one of them might need to be killed to eliminate that as an existing problem.
Defeating a political enemy is one thing. Defeating an enemy who considers their government to be the earthly form of The Divine is something else. Islam has already been beaten down to the Earth at least twice,and came roaring back.
How many lives would have been saved if they had been wiped out the first time they rose up?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
sneakypete posted on 2019-12-16 22:18:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#22. To: sneakypete (#21)
Not all Muslims are the same. The Japanese Emperor had he allowed to have opt for peace in 1936 could have guided Japan to an unwarlike future. And the German Generals if they had been allowed to arrest Hitler would have become involved in a Civil War with the Nazis. The only people to benefit from WW II were the Jews and the Communists. I stand by my opinion that America did not need WW II. And the fanatacism of the Muslims would not bother us if we had not allowed them into Europe and the US which only Jews support. And provided that the Jews had not provoked the Muslims by stealing their land and blowing up the WTC Towers on 911 blaming it on Muslims so we would kill them which did anger them.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
Horse posted on 2019-12-17 4:43:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#23. To: sneakypete (#21)
Correct. Richard should have finished the job when he had the opportunity to do so.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2019-12-17 8:56:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#24. To: Horse (#22)
Yeah,it's always the Jews with you. You have Jews living rent-free inside your head.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
sneakypete posted on 2019-12-24 11:30:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#25. To: Lod (#23)
Correct. Richard should have finished the job when he had the opportunity to do so.

Sooner or later someone else is going to have to do that very thing.
Let's just hope it is someone that doesn't want to do it,but sees no choice. Someone fighting for freedom,and not to establish a different kind of dictatorship.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
sneakypete posted on 2019-12-24 11:35:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#26. To: sneakypete (#21) (Edited)
We HAD to beat the Japanese down to the point where the Emperor was willing to go on the radio and announce to the people he was surrendering,or the war would have never ended.

Hiroshima by John Hersey Chapter 3 Audio - YouTube, 40.25 minutes

This is an audio reading of Chapter 3 [Details Are Being Investigated] from [the book] Hiroshima by John Hersey.

This link is set to start @ 38:10 for the last 8 paragraphs of that chapter, after a radio broadcast in Japan announced that the war had ended - which was "the first time [in history that] the Emperor was heard on the radio by the Japanese people." [Wikipedia ref.]

Excerpt: The speech, using formal, archaic Japanese, was not readily understood by many commoners. According to historian Richard Storry in A History of Modern Japan, the Emperor typically used "a form of language familiar only to the well-educated" and to the more traditional samurai families.[39] A faction of the army opposed to the surrender attempted a coup d'etat on the evening of 14 August, prior to the broadcast. They seized the Imperial Palace (the Kyujo incident), but the physical recording of the emperor's speech was hidden and preserved overnight. The coup was crushed by the next morning, and the speech was broadcast.

These YouTube segments are posted for examples at 38:40, 39:09 and 40:00. The first 2 examples are of Japanese people claiming to know that the war was over because they had heard the news from the Emperor himself on the radio, even though very few Japanese would have known if that broadcast sounded like his voice or not (possibly only his relatives and some associates with official clearance). This is a transcription starting at 40:00 minutes:

"When they came to know the war was ended - that is, Japan was defeated - they, of course, were deeply disappointed but followed after their Emperor's commandment in calm spirit, making wholehearted sacrifice for the everlasting peace of the world -- and Japan started her new way."

The main point of all the info above is that, if the Manhattan Project bombs had not been dropped on the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki because there had been an offshore bomb demonstration on a deserted island instead, which resulted in a news broadcast reportedly from the Emperor of Japan about a peaceful end to the war, the Japanese people in general probably would have believed he had reached "a settlement" to the war situation for their best interests and the world's - just as they did after those bombs were dropped there. So, most likely, they still would have chosen to follow his commandment in a calm spirit because their loyalty was to his government and his leadership of it for their sake, not dominance militarily at all cost for a demagogue. They had recently demonstrated that after WWI by the decision to withdraw Japan's forces from their occupation of Siberia:

"Subjected to intense diplomatic pressure by the United States and the United Kingdom, and facing increasing domestic opposition due to the economic and human cost, the administration of Prime Minister Kato Tomosaburo withdrew the Japanese forces in October 1922." [Siberian intervention (re: Japan) - Wikipedia ref.]

An offshore bomb demonstration would have cost America the price of an expensive "high tech" bomb without the "sufficiently spectacular" effects thereafter that the Manhattan Project honchos wanted for "scientific measurements" of damages and casualties, atomic diplomacy power and "investment marketability", etc. but many lives might have been spared. Maybe a larger faction of the Japanese Military would have revolted against the Imperial Palace to continue fighting against America; whether or not they believed it was the Emperor who had made an announcement of surrender on the radio. Probably not very many civilians would have joined in a Military coup against the Palace but so what if they did? Doubtful Washington D.C. or the Pentagon would object to the Emperor being ousted and the arsenal at Kokura becoming somewhat depleted in the process because, strangely, the "Secret Target Committee" of Los Alamos didn't want that arsenal to be targeted with any bombs (conventional or unconventional either) as a strictly Military objective, since protecting our Military evidently wasn't among their highest priorities of importance. What those annihilists in the vicinity of Diablo Canyon ordered to be bombed as Ground Zero after Hiroshima was the largest Christian cathedral in the Orient and at the time of congregational attendance.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2019-12-27 11:02:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#27. To: GreyLmist (#26)
Doubtful Washington D.C. or the Pentagon would object to the Emperor being ousted and the arsenal at Kokuro becoming somewhat depleted in the process because, strangely, the "Secret Target Committee" of Los Alamos didn't want that arsenal to be targeted with any bombs (conventional or unconventional either) as a strictly Military objective, since protecting our Military evidently wasn't among their highest priorities of importance. What those annihilists in the vicinity of Diablo Canyon ordered to be bombed as Ground Zero after Hiroshima was the largest Christian cathedral in the Orient and at the time of congregational attendance.

I'd never read that.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2019-12-27 12:16:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#28. To: Lod, sneakypete (#27) (Edited)
Me: Doubtful Washington D.C. or the Pentagon would object to the Emperor being ousted and the arsenal at Kokuro becoming somewhat depleted in the process because, strangely, the "Secret Target Committee" of Los Alamos didn't want that arsenal to be targeted with any bombs (conventional or unconventional either) as a strictly Military objective, since protecting our Military evidently wasn't among their highest priorities of importance. What those annihilists in the vicinity of Diablo Canyon ordered to be bombed as Ground Zero after Hiroshima was the largest Christian cathedral in the Orient and at the time of congregational attendance.

Lod: I'd never read that.

There was a 4um discussion here (4+ years ago) on the bombing of Nagasaki with more information about much of that, etc., but nothing is there about the arsenal at Kokura -- just that location-name as a potential Primary Target-point; which got cancelled because of "climate change" that probably wasn't unexpected by the target selectors. There were other suspicious in-flight factors (unsynchronicity and mechanical issues), as well (besides incoming typhoon weather conditions of low-visibility in the area), that led to the 8-9-45 cancellation and switcheroo -- with Nagasaki, the so-called "Secondary/Swap" Target, as the "Replacement"; but those are only some of the indicators that Nagasaki was the Manhattan Project's planned Primary Target and not the arsenal at Kokura. Am archiving that 4um source and these additions for clarification and further details:
newworldencyclopedia.org | Excerpts:
The Target Committee at Los Alamos on May 10–11, 1945, recommended Kyoto, Hiroshima, Yokohama, and the arsenal at Kokura as possible targets. The committee rejected the use of the weapon against a strictly military objective because of the chance of missing a small target not surrounded by a larger urban area. The psychological effects on Japan were of great importance to the committee members. They also agreed that the initial use of the weapon should be sufficiently spectacular for its importance to be internationally recognized.
The committee felt Kyoto, as an intellectual center of Japan, had a population "better able to appreciate the significance of the weapon." Hiroshima was described as "an important army depot and port of embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area. It is a good radar target and it is such a size that a large part of the city could be extensively damaged. There are adjacent hills which are likely to produce a focusing effect which would considerably increase the blast damage. Due to rivers it is not a good incendiary target."
>
The first nuclear device, called "Gadget," was detonated during the "Trinity" test near Alamogordo, New Mexico on July 16, 1945. The Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs were the second and third to be detonated and the only ones ever employed so far in history as weapons of mass destruction.
[Note: This test (with a weirdly Christian-sounding name oddity for something intended to be horrendously devastating) could have been conducted on a deserted island somewhere near Japan for their observation and consideration. The war might have ended soon afterwards with that and the Potsdam Declaration (excerpts below) rather than America being made the first "test" casualty of after-effects. Instead, Japan was massively hit by surprise at Hiroshima and still staggering from that trauma when it was struck again at Nagasaki - in the Urakami river district at the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception, also known as St. Mary's Cathedral. It is my opinion that the weapons arsenal at Kokura, which wasn't a populous urban area, was never actually an intentional target of the WMD/Weapons of Mass Destruction strikes by the upper echelons of the Manhattan Project but a smokescreen to mask a non-coincidental "War on Christianity, too!" signaling between them, their so-called "Trinity" test and that particular Christian Cathedral they wanted removed. Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki had rivers that might lower the level of maximal damages and casualties, which was claimed to be their main objective, but those cities were targeted despite that possibility. So, they were selected for some other reason(s) of higher priority.]
>
Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson struck Kyoto from the list because of its cultural significance, over the objections of General Leslie Groves, head of the Manhattan Project. According to Professor Edwin O. Reischauer, Stimson "had known and admired Kyoto ever since his honeymoon there several decades earlier."
>
On July 25, Nagasaki was put on the target list in place of Kyoto.
>
On July 26, Truman and other allied leaders issued The Potsdam Declaration outlining terms of surrender for Japan:

...The might that now converges on Japan is immeasurably greater than that which, when applied to the resisting Nazis, necessarily laid waste to the lands, the industry and the method of life of the whole German people. The full application of our military power, backed by our resolve, will mean the inevitable and complete destruction of the Japanese armed forces and just as inevitably the utter devastation of the Japanese homeland... ...We call upon the government of Japan to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces, and to provide proper and adequate assurances of their good faith in such action. The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction.

The next day, Japanese papers reported that the declaration, the text of which had been broadcast and dropped on leaflets into Japan, had been rejected. The atomic bomb was still a highly guarded secret and not mentioned in the declaration.
>
Nagasaki had never been subjected to large-scale bombing prior to the explosion of a nuclear weapon there. On August 1, 1945, however, a number of conventional high-explosive bombs were dropped on the city. ... While the damage from these bombs was relatively small, it created considerable concern in Nagasaki and many people—principally school children— were evacuated to rural areas for safety, thus reducing the population in the city at the time of the nuclear attack. Nagasaki's Christian populations were the largest in Japan.
>
[Note: I suspect that small-scale bombing of Nagasaki was to falsely indicate to some of the Secret Target Committee that Nagasaki was just going to be a secondary target selection and not the primary target, as the arsenal at Kokura would have seemed to be - since it wasn't being conventionally bombed to smithereens for the protection of our Military on the excuse that doing so would mess up "scientific measurements" of damages and casualty counts from n-bomb powers.]
>
newstatesman.com | Excerpt:

The selection of the cities to be [n-]bombed was also more akin to a scientific experiment, rather than a purely strategic military calculation. The nominated cities had thus far been left deliberately untouched during the regular nightly bombing raids, in order to accurately assess the full capacity and damage inflicted by the atomic bombs.
>
4um Ref. | Excerpt:
The list of protected cities included Hiroshima, Niigata, Kokura, Kyoto and Nagasaki. Those five cities were to be off-limits to the terror bombings that the other cities were being subjected to. They were to be preserved as potential targets for the new “gimmick” weapon that had been researched and developed in labs and manufacturing plants all across America over the several years since the Manhattan Project had begun.
Ironically, prior to August 6 and 9, the residents of those five cities considered themselves lucky for not having been bombed as had the other large cities. Little did the residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki know that they were only being temporarily spared from an even worse carnage in an experiment with a new weapon that could cause the mass destruction of entire cities

[Hiroshima (Southwest of Tokyo), n-bombed August 6, 1945 | Truman should have immediately reissued the Potsdam Declaration with an RSVP instruction included to respond very promptly within the next 2 days. | Potential targets remaining for the next n-bombing: Yokohama (near Tokyo on the East coast) or Niigata (North of Tokyo on the West coast), Nagasaki and supposedly the arsenal at Kokura (both Southwesterly from Tokyo, near Hiroshima). Putting Kokura on the list of potential primary targets had basically guaranteed that the arsenal there wouldn't be conventionally destroyed but n-bombing Nagasaki after Hiroshima would leave the arsenal at Kokura standing, resourcefully and functionally, between those 2 n-bombed cities with the region expected to be restricted as hazardous.]
>
Responsibility for the timing of the second bombing was delegated to Colonel Tibbets as commander of the 509th Bomb Wing on Tinian. Scheduled for August 11 against Kokura, the raid was moved forward to avoid a five day period of bad weather forecast to begin on August 10.
>
The mission plan for the second attack [August 9, 1945] was nearly identical to that of the Hiroshima mission, with Kokura as the [supposed] primary target and Nagasaki the [supposed] secondary target.
>
clouds had completely obscured Kokura. After three runs over the city and having fuel running low because of a fuel-transfer problem, they headed for their [presumed] secondary target, Nagasaki.
>
The highest-ranking officer in the Pacific Theater, General Douglas MacArthur, was not consulted beforehand, but said afterward that he felt that there was no military justification for the bombings. The same opinion was expressed by Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy, chief of staff to the president; General Carl Spaatz, commander of the U.S. Strategic Air Forces in the Pacific; Brigadier General Carter Clarke, the military intelligence officer who prepared intercepted Japanese cables for U.S. officials, U.S. Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral Ernest King; Ralph A. Bard, undersecretary of the Navy; and Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, commander-in-chief of the Pacific Fleet.
Dwight D. Eisenhower, then Allied commander-in-chief, wrote in his memoir The White House Years:

In 1945 Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives."[18]

Sidenotes re: Japan's Siberia Intervention. During that time period, they were considered allies of the U.S. and the West against the Communist Revolution by Lenin and his Bolsheviks there to takeover Russia. [4um Ref.]
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2019-12-28 14:29:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#29. To: sneakypete (#18)
We even decided it was better to go to war with them than to join them.

Rudolph Hess flew to Scotland trying to get in touch with someone who he thought was sympathetic to the Nazi cause and use him as a go between to offer to fight with Germany against the Soviets.
Of course that had no chance to succeed. The Scottish wife of the man who owned the farm where Hess's plane crashed made tea for him. When the English found out he was there he was summarily arrested and when the Nuremburg trials commenced he was sent there. He was the last Nazi to die in Spandau Prison. That prison was torn down to keep it from being a point of worship for neo-Nazis. ;)
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
BTP Holdings posted on 2019-12-28 14:51:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
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