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Israel/Zionism
See other Israel/Zionism Articles

Title: Albert Einstein A Plagiarist?
Source: The Guardian - UK 8-29-03
URL Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,3928978-103681,00.html
Published: Apr 5, 2006
Author: By Rory Carroll in Rome
Post Date: 2006-04-06 00:05:11 by Horse
Keywords: None
Views: 654
Comments: 122

Einstein's E=mc2 'was Italian's idea'

Rory Carroll in Rome
Thursday November 11, 1999
Guardian

The mathematical equation that ushered in the atomic age was discovered by an unknown Italian dilettante two years before Albert Einstein used it in developing the theory of relativity, it was claimed yesterday.

Olinto De Pretto, an industrialist from Vicenza, published the equation E=mc2 in a scientific magazine, Atte, in 1903, said Umberto Bartocci, a mathematical historian.

Einstein allegedly used De Pretto's insight in a major paper published in 1905, but De Pretto was never acclaimed, said Professor Bartocci of the University of Perugia.

De Pretto had stumbled on the equation, but not the theory of relativity, while speculating about ether in the life of the universe, said Prof Bartocci. It was republished in 1904 by Veneto's Royal Science Institute, but the equation's significance was not understood.

A Swiss Italian named Michele Besso alerted Einstein to the research and in 1905 Einstein published his own work, said Prof Bartocci. It took years for his breakthrough to be grasped. When the penny finally dropped, De Pretto's contribution was overlooked while Einstein went on to become the century's most famous scientist. De Pretto died in 1921.

"De Pretto did not discover relativity but there is no doubt that he was the first to use the equation. That is hugely significant. I also believe, though it's impossible to prove, that Einstein used De Pretto's research," said Prof Bartocci, who has written a book on the subject.

Einstein's theory held that time and motion are relative to the observer if the speed of light is constant and if all natural laws are the same. A footnote established the equivalence of mass and energy, according to which the energy (E) of a quantity of matter (m) is equal to the product of the mass and the square of the velocity of light (c). Now known as: E=mc2 .

The influence of work by other physicists on Einstein's theory is also controversial. A German, David Hilbert, is thought by some to have been decisive.

Edmund Robertson, professor of mathematics at St Andrew's University, said: "An awful lot of mathematics was done by people who have never been credited - Arabs in the middle ages, for example. Einstein may have got the idea from someone else, but ideas come from all sorts of places.

"De Pretto deserves credit if his contribution can be proven. Even so, it should not detract from Einstein."

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2006
Poster Comment: I posted this in response to 2 insults questioning what I said to be true. That Einstein was a plagiarist and that the Jewish people control the press in America. Notice that this was published in England as was the paper on the Israeli lobby as the Jewish control on the press is very tight here. I am not starting a flame war. I just do not take insults well.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 101.

#1. To: Horse, Zipporah (#0)

Zip, can you fix this to eliminate the side to side scroll?

Horse, have you flagged the insulters? ;)

christine  posted on  2006-04-06   1:45:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: christine (#1)

He's talking about me, but I didn't post insults. My posts to him are #3 and #4, here. I do get tired of the simmering anti-semitism here, however, which is why I made the jab. But I made no personal comments about Horse or anyone else, as you can see for yourself.

Incidentally, I also posted #2, but not to Horse, and it wasn't a personal comment either, but rather a criticism of the article's content. In my opinion, the author of the article doesn't know what he's talking about.

For example, it contains the bald assertion: "But light-speed is nearly an indefinite figure." That's just wrong. c = 299,792,458.0000 m/s, exactly. It's defined. It's so easy to measure accurately, and with great precision, that the international metrology community changed the definition of the meter. It's no longer so many wavelengths of a certain krypton transition, it's now how far light goes in a vacuum in 1/299792458 seconds. The two scratches on a platinum bar in Paris is at least two definitions ago, in case you are wondering. The meter is no longer a primary standard; it's now a derived quantity based on the speed of light, which is defined. That makes the statement "But light- speed is nearly an indefinite figure" almost as wrong as any statement could possibly be.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-06   5:48:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: freeedom (#4)

I do get tired of the simmering anti-semitism here, however, which is why I made the jab.

What's your definition of anti-semitism and I'd appreciate it if you'd cite a specific post by anyone here as evidence of "simmering anti-semitism." Is any criticism of zionists, jews, or Israel anti-semitism in your mind? Well, guess what? I'm tired of the label and the accusation that we're anti-semites on this forum because we allow open and free discussion of THE topic.

christine  posted on  2006-04-06   11:59:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: christine (#6)

Is any criticism of zionists, jews, or Israel anti-semitism in your mind?

I don't know what a "Zionist" is. Criticizing Isreal, e.g. government policy, is fine with me. But criticizing "Jews" - that is a race. Saying that something "is the fault of the Jews" is like saying something is the fault of "the blacks" or "whitey" and is explicitly racist. Not only is the argument unsophisticated, but it is symptomatic of the kind of collectivist thinking that leads to concentration camps, unless it's something that you can demonstrate is inseparable from people with Jewish ancestry. (Which will be difficult.) I have seen many threads here which tempted me to post "It's the Joooooos" but I have resisted till now. I'll post a few of them and ping you.

Incidentally, when you capitalize "the" in the statement "I'm tired of the label and the accusation that we're anti-semites on this forum because we allow open and free discussion of THE topic" it conveys the impression that of all the problems in the world, THE problem is Jooooos, and we can only solve it if we can discuss it. Is that really what you intend to convey, or am I hopefully misunderstanding you?

I happen to think that socialism and radical Islam, both of which are ideologies independent of one's ancestry, are far greater threats to the country and the world, and I can debate why I think these things, based on history and where such ideologies might lead. But if someone is Jewish, you can't debate anything - his parents are Jews, therefore, he's a Jew, and therefore - what? He's the main problem? Please.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-07   8:35:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: freeedom, Phaedrus (#8)

So basically if you owned this forum, you'd censor the posts of those you deem are racist or anti-semite or posts that, in your opinion, are not the truth (whatever that means, it seems to me that is nebulous and in many situations based on one's personal beliefs, perceptions, and experiences. I offer religion and the bible as an example). That being said, our purpose here is the provision of a venue in which the posting and sharing of information and opinions in an attempt to learn what is true is encouraged.

Based on your comments, I'm left to conclude that neither one of you believe in free speech. With free speech comes the good, the bad, and the ugly. If you don't like what an individual writes, you have one of three options, debate him/her on it, ignore it, or leave the forum if you're uncomfortable with our policy of non- censorship. I hope you'll choose one of the first two.

christine  posted on  2006-04-07   11:27:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: christine (#15)

So basically if you owned this forum, you'd censor the posts of those you deem are racist or anti-semite or posts that, in your opinion, are not the truth ...

Anyone shown, repeat shown, to post lies, innuendo, character assassination etc. on more than one, repeat one, occasion would be thrown out. Quality not just quantity, Christine, is important, especially if you want 4um to attract good people and endure. Both tolerance and judgement, repeat judgement, are required but you cannot be afraid to exercise it and you must expect to be wrong now and then, which would not be the end of the world. People don't die here. You would eliminate a lot of the onerous stuff, not that it's currently a major problem, by simply making these rules known. My opinion -- I just post here and I obviously don't make the rules.

Phaedrus  posted on  2006-04-07   12:06:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Phaedrus (#18)

Don't let the kooks push you around.

We have many advantages over normal people. Our definition of "truth" can mean many different things at once. We are unconstrained!

I have heard that many normal people don't even have voices in their heads to guide them. They are pushovers!

Also, there are many more nuts than normal people! Remember that!

ROTFLOL!

BAC  posted on  2006-04-07   22:10:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: BAC (#83)

Don't let the kooks push you around.

lol ... not bloody likely.

Phaedrus  posted on  2006-04-08   7:46:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: All (#94)

Regarding Palestine, have a listen to Ben Freedman back in '61 who had first hand experience how things are shaped and conveniently omitted from our history books. Expect a 'reality shift' if you haven't heard this before.

http://iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Freedman.html (Check the 40 minute excerpt first)

Rainingfish  posted on  2006-04-08   10:07:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: freeedom (#95)

Pinging you to the Freedman speech posted by Rainingfish since you said you didn't know what Zionism is. Perhaps you'll have a better understanding of what I meant by THE topic after listening to this or by thinking two words--Ernst Zundel.

christine  posted on  2006-04-08   11:14:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: christine (#98)

I looked up Zundel on Wikipedia. What does the fact that an individual is being prosecuted for Holocaust denial, have to do with whether or not "Jews control the press," etc, as Horse stated and to which I objected?

Furthermore, what exactly should I make of your use of "THE topic?" Not "a topic" and not even "the topic" but "THE topic." Makes me think that you somehow see Jews behind everything worth discussing on this board. Please tell me that I misunderstand.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-08   13:48:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: freeedom (#99)

Makes me think that you somehow see Jews behind everything worth discussing on this board. Please tell me that I misunderstand.

You *do* misunderstand, the question is why? I think the intentions of the posters, and the owners of this forum are clear. THE topic is a topic that isn't allowed a full airing on other forums. Surely you know this. To toss insults around (see above) leads me to believe you'd like nothing more than to control speech. Sorry, you're in the wrong neighborhood.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-04-08   14:34:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: Jethro Tull (#100)

Surely you know this.

Nope, but thanks for telling me.

To toss insults around (see above) leads me to believe you'd like nothing more than to control speech. Sorry, you're in the wrong neighborhood.

I haven't insulted anyone, directly, here (e.g. xyz is a moron) - but for an uncensored, free speech forum people here are awfully quick to feel insulted by what I write. I have already stated twice that I wouldn't censor, but I wouldn't ignore either. There - that makes three times.

As for THE topic, all I can add is this: Local Jew Feels Left Out Of Worldwide Jewish Conspiracy

Well, maybe I can add a joke, too: A Rabbi walks into a bookstore, and sees one of his friends reading Nazi literature. He asks the guy, why are you reading that? He responds "Well, the stuff you like to read shows us as weak, oppressed, victims, but in the stuff I'm reading we control the press and media, banks, governments, all businesses, international institutions, and everything else of significance. Which would you rather read?"

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-08   15:20:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 101.

#102. To: freeedom (#101)

I'd laugh at your joke if it weren't for the fact that our military is currently engaged in reshaping the face of the Middle East for the benefit of Israel.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-04-08 15:33:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 101.

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