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Israel/Zionism
See other Israel/Zionism Articles

Title: Albert Einstein A Plagiarist?
Source: The Guardian - UK 8-29-03
URL Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,3928978-103681,00.html
Published: Apr 5, 2006
Author: By Rory Carroll in Rome
Post Date: 2006-04-06 00:05:11 by Horse
Keywords: None
Views: 807
Comments: 122

Einstein's E=mc2 'was Italian's idea'

Rory Carroll in Rome
Thursday November 11, 1999
Guardian

The mathematical equation that ushered in the atomic age was discovered by an unknown Italian dilettante two years before Albert Einstein used it in developing the theory of relativity, it was claimed yesterday.

Olinto De Pretto, an industrialist from Vicenza, published the equation E=mc2 in a scientific magazine, Atte, in 1903, said Umberto Bartocci, a mathematical historian.

Einstein allegedly used De Pretto's insight in a major paper published in 1905, but De Pretto was never acclaimed, said Professor Bartocci of the University of Perugia.

De Pretto had stumbled on the equation, but not the theory of relativity, while speculating about ether in the life of the universe, said Prof Bartocci. It was republished in 1904 by Veneto's Royal Science Institute, but the equation's significance was not understood.

A Swiss Italian named Michele Besso alerted Einstein to the research and in 1905 Einstein published his own work, said Prof Bartocci. It took years for his breakthrough to be grasped. When the penny finally dropped, De Pretto's contribution was overlooked while Einstein went on to become the century's most famous scientist. De Pretto died in 1921.

"De Pretto did not discover relativity but there is no doubt that he was the first to use the equation. That is hugely significant. I also believe, though it's impossible to prove, that Einstein used De Pretto's research," said Prof Bartocci, who has written a book on the subject.

Einstein's theory held that time and motion are relative to the observer if the speed of light is constant and if all natural laws are the same. A footnote established the equivalence of mass and energy, according to which the energy (E) of a quantity of matter (m) is equal to the product of the mass and the square of the velocity of light (c). Now known as: E=mc2 .

The influence of work by other physicists on Einstein's theory is also controversial. A German, David Hilbert, is thought by some to have been decisive.

Edmund Robertson, professor of mathematics at St Andrew's University, said: "An awful lot of mathematics was done by people who have never been credited - Arabs in the middle ages, for example. Einstein may have got the idea from someone else, but ideas come from all sorts of places.

"De Pretto deserves credit if his contribution can be proven. Even so, it should not detract from Einstein."

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2006
Poster Comment: I posted this in response to 2 insults questioning what I said to be true. That Einstein was a plagiarist and that the Jewish people control the press in America. Notice that this was published in England as was the paper on the Israeli lobby as the Jewish control on the press is very tight here. I am not starting a flame war. I just do not take insults well.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 117.

#1. To: Horse, Zipporah (#0)

Zip, can you fix this to eliminate the side to side scroll?

Horse, have you flagged the insulters? ;)

christine  posted on  2006-04-06   1:45:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: christine (#1)

He's talking about me, but I didn't post insults. My posts to him are #3 and #4, here. I do get tired of the simmering anti-semitism here, however, which is why I made the jab. But I made no personal comments about Horse or anyone else, as you can see for yourself.

Incidentally, I also posted #2, but not to Horse, and it wasn't a personal comment either, but rather a criticism of the article's content. In my opinion, the author of the article doesn't know what he's talking about.

For example, it contains the bald assertion: "But light-speed is nearly an indefinite figure." That's just wrong. c = 299,792,458.0000 m/s, exactly. It's defined. It's so easy to measure accurately, and with great precision, that the international metrology community changed the definition of the meter. It's no longer so many wavelengths of a certain krypton transition, it's now how far light goes in a vacuum in 1/299792458 seconds. The two scratches on a platinum bar in Paris is at least two definitions ago, in case you are wondering. The meter is no longer a primary standard; it's now a derived quantity based on the speed of light, which is defined. That makes the statement "But light- speed is nearly an indefinite figure" almost as wrong as any statement could possibly be.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-06   5:48:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: freeedom (#4)

I do get tired of the simmering anti-semitism here, however, which is why I made the jab.

What's your definition of anti-semitism and I'd appreciate it if you'd cite a specific post by anyone here as evidence of "simmering anti-semitism." Is any criticism of zionists, jews, or Israel anti-semitism in your mind? Well, guess what? I'm tired of the label and the accusation that we're anti-semites on this forum because we allow open and free discussion of THE topic.

christine  posted on  2006-04-06   11:59:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: christine (#6)

Is any criticism of zionists, jews, or Israel anti-semitism in your mind?

I don't know what a "Zionist" is. Criticizing Isreal, e.g. government policy, is fine with me. But criticizing "Jews" - that is a race. Saying that something "is the fault of the Jews" is like saying something is the fault of "the blacks" or "whitey" and is explicitly racist. Not only is the argument unsophisticated, but it is symptomatic of the kind of collectivist thinking that leads to concentration camps, unless it's something that you can demonstrate is inseparable from people with Jewish ancestry. (Which will be difficult.) I have seen many threads here which tempted me to post "It's the Joooooos" but I have resisted till now. I'll post a few of them and ping you.

Incidentally, when you capitalize "the" in the statement "I'm tired of the label and the accusation that we're anti-semites on this forum because we allow open and free discussion of THE topic" it conveys the impression that of all the problems in the world, THE problem is Jooooos, and we can only solve it if we can discuss it. Is that really what you intend to convey, or am I hopefully misunderstanding you?

I happen to think that socialism and radical Islam, both of which are ideologies independent of one's ancestry, are far greater threats to the country and the world, and I can debate why I think these things, based on history and where such ideologies might lead. But if someone is Jewish, you can't debate anything - his parents are Jews, therefore, he's a Jew, and therefore - what? He's the main problem? Please.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-07   8:35:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: freeedom, christine (#8)

Incidentally, when you capitalize "the" in the statement "I'm tired of the label and the accusation that we're anti-semites on this forum because we allow open and free discussion of THE topic" it conveys the impression that of all the problems in the world, THE problem is Jooooos, and we can only solve it if we can discuss it. Is that really what you intend to convey, or am I hopefully misunderstanding you?

I've been around this issue for a few years now, starting with LP, and have learned a few things about it.

First, christine mentioned "THE topic" not "THE problem". That's an important distinction.

Second, as you pointed out, criticism of Israel is reasonable and and fair play. But many people that are pro-jew / act in defense of jews consider criticism of Israel to be a veiled slam on jews, and therefore shouldn't be permitted. Those people taking that stance are wrong and I believe it's reasonable and correct to point that out to them. I believe that false and excessive cries of anti-semitism, such as the prosecution of so-called holocaust deniers in Europe do the jews far more harm than letting people question the number of jewish dead in WWII Europe. Why isn't questioning the number of Ukrainian dead under Stalin also a crime?

Third, jewry is not really a race. It's a religion, or more of a religion than a race. At least that's what one jew told me, in spite of the idea that the original blood jews are decended from Abraham. Racially speaking, arabs are of the same blood line as jews, and in fact, "semite" refers equally to arabs and jews alike. But in terms of religion, anyone converting to judaism is considered a full blood jew, so they seem to consider the faith aspect as the primary defining factor. With that distiction, they really enjoy the same protection as islamic "ragheads", if you follow.

Fourth, one practice among jews which is very arguably discriminatory involves the matter of money. Again, I was told this from a jew and you can verify it anywhere, including the Old Testament. When a jew loans money to another jew, no interest in permitted to be charged. Interest is only permitted when loaned to a non-jew. This is a factual statement, not an anti-semite statement. What does it mean? It means that jews do treat people differently based on their religion, discriminating against non-jews, which runs contrary to modern day political correctness which seems to bind all other political & religious sectors within the USA.

Neil McIver  posted on  2006-04-07   11:24:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Neil McIver (#13)

First, christine mentioned "THE topic" not "THE problem". That's an important distinction.

You're right, but I made a logical step from there. This is a political discussion forum, and if Jews are THE topic, and we're not happy about the way things are, I think we can presume that they are THE problem. Am I wrong?

But many people that are pro-jew / act in defense of jews consider criticism of Israel to be a veiled slam on jews, and therefore shouldn't be permitted. Those people taking that stance are wrong and I believe it's reasonable and correct to point that out to them.

I do not number among them.

I believe that false and excessive cries of anti-semitism, such as the prosecution of so-called holocaust deniers in Europe do the jews far more harm than letting people question the number of jewish dead in WWII Europe. Why isn't questioning the number of Ukrainian dead under Stalin also a crime?

I agree, censorship is dangerous, and particularly so when conducted by governments. I agree with you that prosecuting holocaust deniers is dangerous, and I would also object to criminalizing, say, questioning the number of Ukranian dead.

Third, jewry is not really a race. It's a religion, or more of a religion than a race.

You're being excessively pedantic. I doubt that when Horse posts, "The Jews are in control of the press" he means, practicing religious Jews.

Racially speaking, arabs are of the same blood line as jews, and in fact, "semite" refers equally to arabs and jews alike.

I confess to using the term colloquially. But tell me, when Horse posts "The Jews control the press" - does his use of the term "Jew" have any more subtlety or complexity than my informal use of the term "anti-Semitic" does? I don't think so.

But in terms of religion, anyone converting to judaism is considered a full blood jew, so they seem to consider the faith aspect as the primary defining factor. With that distiction, they really enjoy the same protection as islamic "ragheads", if you follow.

Sort of. But once again, I don't think those who own the media outlets are practicing, devout Jews, so I believe you and Horse disagree, even though you are apparently coming to his defense.

Fourth, one practice among jews which is very arguably discriminatory involves the matter of money. Again, I was told this from a jew and you can verify it anywhere, including the Old Testament. When a jew loans money to another jew, no interest in permitted to be charged. Interest is only permitted when loaned to a non-jew. This is a factual statement, not an anti-semite statement.

There are a lot of things that are objectively in the Bible, e.g. stoning adulterers, that are (fortunately) long gone (except in radical Islam). I highly doubt that Jews don't pay margin interest or mortgage interest, even though some brokers and loan officers are undoutedly Jewish. (Or, ~all of them if you actually believed that Jews "control" banks and brokerage houses.)

What does it mean? It means that jews do treat people differently based on their religion, discriminating against non-jews, which runs contrary to modern day political correctness which seems to bind all other political & religious sectors within the USA.

I have no evidence that Jews, today, actually do this. Do you? The fact it's in their holy book doesn't mean it's still practiced. One difference, though, is that another certain holy book says it's ok to kill infidels, and there's plenty of evidence right now that they still want to, plan to, and do so in great numbers. If you want to talk about political correctness.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-07   13:29:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: freeedom (#29)

I agree, censorship is dangerous, and particularly so when conducted by governments. I agree with you that prosecuting holocaust deniers is dangerous, and I would also object to criminalizing, say, questioning the number of Ukranian dead.

Well then, we live in a dangerous world. In many nations the discussion of what you mention above is a crime. IMHO, that thought is coming to America. Why do you believe that the topic of the holocaust has been made illegal?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-04-07   13:39:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Jethro Tull (#32)

Why do you believe that the topic of the holocaust has been made illegal?

I don't have a good answer for that. It probably has to do with European guilt over allowing the Holocaust to happen, but it could be something else. (It could also be because The Jooooos control everything, but I reject that argument.)

One thing I'll stand by: there are a lot of foolish, dangerous, or outright insane people in positions of political power everywhere across the globe, and one shouldn't look to the duly enacted laws of any country as paragons of reason, rationality, beneficence, or virtue.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-07   13:50:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: freeedom (#35)

It probably has to do with European guilt over allowing the Holocaust to happen, but it could be something else. (It could also be because The Jooooos control everything, but I reject that argument.)

One thing about this so-called European guilt. This is the end result of the brainwashing instigated by the Marxist Jews after the war with the full consent of the Allies and the collaboration of the Soviets.

If you have a problem with this, you need to study the period of history directly after the end of the war from a diferent perspective than what you seem to be coming from.

I say this with full knowledge of the truth of the matter. The Court historians have written the victor's version of history, but it is rife with lies and deceit.

“We are all ensnared by the tentacles of a system of social control, operating at all levels of society, which demands the blood sacrifice of millions of the cream of our youth every generation in bloody aggression to maintain prosperity. The primary intellectual and spiritual fundaments of this system spring from what passes for history, and are percolated down to the lowest member of society via a well-coordinated machine which leaves nothing unsullied by its poisonous output.” Willis A. Carto, 1983

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-04-07   20:36:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: BTP Holdings (#74)

One thing about this so-called European guilt. This is the end result of the brainwashing instigated by the Marxist Jews after the war with the full consent of the Allies and the collaboration of the Soviets.

That might be so. The reason I said it is because I got to know several Europeans in grad school, and all of them mentioned something like this. I did talk politics with them.

If you have a problem with this, you need to study the period of history directly after the end of the war from a diferent perspective than what you seem to be coming from.

First, why should I do anything at all about it? It's coming from them, not from me, I'm just the messenger. If anyone needs to study anything, it's the Europeans who told me about it, and not me. Second, you are awfully quick to tell me about what you think are the limitations of my knowledge, based on your own assumptions about me. I submit you don't know as much about me as you think. In all likelihood, you don't know as much about world history as you think either. Third, I have a problem with Marxists whether they are Jewish or not - in much the same way that I have a problem with plagiarists, whether they are Jewish or not (to attempt to bring the thread back on topic).

I say this with full knowledge of the truth of the matter.

Yes, you are the indisputible world expert on this matter, and many others no doubt. In your own mind, at least. Everyone who disagrees with you is simply ignorant - according to you. No other explanation for disagreement fits into your worldview. "Full knowledge" indeed!

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-08   0:09:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: freeedom (#90)

First, why should I do anything at all about it? It's coming from them, not from me, I'm just the messenger. If anyone needs to study anything, it's the Europeans who told me about it, and not me.

If you were just repeating what you were told, you would not have interjected that nonsense about the Jooooos. Obviously, you have an axe to grind when something doesnot line up with your own point of view. If I told you that you need to study, that is my perception of your comment.

Oh, my, must you whine about it? What I may or may not know about you is irrelevant. Perhaps you should work on your English compostition to get your point across more clearly to avoid these sorts of disagreements.

And as for what I know about world history, I'll put my knowledge up against yours any time and any place. If you purport to know as much as you claim, you would not have made such a silly comment previously; you should, or would have known better.

I've seen enough of you to know a pompous, arrogant blowhard when I see one. And your attempt to belittle me exposes you as being one.

As I said, I'll stack up my knowledge against yours just any time. The only problem with that is your own cognitive dissonance will interfere with any possibility of it being a positive experience. And you will fail to learn, again.

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-04-17   23:29:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: BTP Holdings (#114)

And as for what I know about world history, I'll put my knowledge up against yours any time and any place.

I didn't say I knew more than you did, I said I knew more than you thought I did. (You even quoted me!) Apparently English comprehension isn't your strong point.

I've seen enough of you to know a pompous, arrogant blowhard when I see one.

This is truly an astonishing accusation to make, coming from one who wrote: (in post #74)

I say this with full knowledge of the truth of the matter.

Full knowledge and truth? Of history? (And, therefore, all history, otherwise it wouldn't be full knowledge?) And you have the gall to call me a pompous and arrogant blowhard. Let's see, what was your admonition to me again? Oh, yes, it was this:

"accusing others of what you yourself are doing"

Hypocrite.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-22   19:10:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 117.

#118. To: freeedom (#117)

Aaron on http://www.postliberty.com said you raped your mom.

Dakmar  posted on  2006-04-22 19:19:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: freeedom (#117)

Bye, bye, BOZO!

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-04-22 23:54:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 117.

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