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Israel/Zionism
See other Israel/Zionism Articles

Title: Albert Einstein A Plagiarist?
Source: The Guardian - UK 8-29-03
URL Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,3928978-103681,00.html
Published: Apr 5, 2006
Author: By Rory Carroll in Rome
Post Date: 2006-04-06 00:05:11 by Horse
Keywords: None
Views: 632
Comments: 122

Einstein's E=mc2 'was Italian's idea'

Rory Carroll in Rome
Thursday November 11, 1999
Guardian

The mathematical equation that ushered in the atomic age was discovered by an unknown Italian dilettante two years before Albert Einstein used it in developing the theory of relativity, it was claimed yesterday.

Olinto De Pretto, an industrialist from Vicenza, published the equation E=mc2 in a scientific magazine, Atte, in 1903, said Umberto Bartocci, a mathematical historian.

Einstein allegedly used De Pretto's insight in a major paper published in 1905, but De Pretto was never acclaimed, said Professor Bartocci of the University of Perugia.

De Pretto had stumbled on the equation, but not the theory of relativity, while speculating about ether in the life of the universe, said Prof Bartocci. It was republished in 1904 by Veneto's Royal Science Institute, but the equation's significance was not understood.

A Swiss Italian named Michele Besso alerted Einstein to the research and in 1905 Einstein published his own work, said Prof Bartocci. It took years for his breakthrough to be grasped. When the penny finally dropped, De Pretto's contribution was overlooked while Einstein went on to become the century's most famous scientist. De Pretto died in 1921.

"De Pretto did not discover relativity but there is no doubt that he was the first to use the equation. That is hugely significant. I also believe, though it's impossible to prove, that Einstein used De Pretto's research," said Prof Bartocci, who has written a book on the subject.

Einstein's theory held that time and motion are relative to the observer if the speed of light is constant and if all natural laws are the same. A footnote established the equivalence of mass and energy, according to which the energy (E) of a quantity of matter (m) is equal to the product of the mass and the square of the velocity of light (c). Now known as: E=mc2 .

The influence of work by other physicists on Einstein's theory is also controversial. A German, David Hilbert, is thought by some to have been decisive.

Edmund Robertson, professor of mathematics at St Andrew's University, said: "An awful lot of mathematics was done by people who have never been credited - Arabs in the middle ages, for example. Einstein may have got the idea from someone else, but ideas come from all sorts of places.

"De Pretto deserves credit if his contribution can be proven. Even so, it should not detract from Einstein."

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2006
Poster Comment: I posted this in response to 2 insults questioning what I said to be true. That Einstein was a plagiarist and that the Jewish people control the press in America. Notice that this was published in England as was the paper on the Israeli lobby as the Jewish control on the press is very tight here. I am not starting a flame war. I just do not take insults well.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 41.

#1. To: Horse, Zipporah (#0)

Zip, can you fix this to eliminate the side to side scroll?

Horse, have you flagged the insulters? ;)

christine  posted on  2006-04-06   1:45:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: christine (#1)

He's talking about me, but I didn't post insults. My posts to him are #3 and #4, here. I do get tired of the simmering anti-semitism here, however, which is why I made the jab. But I made no personal comments about Horse or anyone else, as you can see for yourself.

Incidentally, I also posted #2, but not to Horse, and it wasn't a personal comment either, but rather a criticism of the article's content. In my opinion, the author of the article doesn't know what he's talking about.

For example, it contains the bald assertion: "But light-speed is nearly an indefinite figure." That's just wrong. c = 299,792,458.0000 m/s, exactly. It's defined. It's so easy to measure accurately, and with great precision, that the international metrology community changed the definition of the meter. It's no longer so many wavelengths of a certain krypton transition, it's now how far light goes in a vacuum in 1/299792458 seconds. The two scratches on a platinum bar in Paris is at least two definitions ago, in case you are wondering. The meter is no longer a primary standard; it's now a derived quantity based on the speed of light, which is defined. That makes the statement "But light- speed is nearly an indefinite figure" almost as wrong as any statement could possibly be.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-06   5:48:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: freeedom (#4)

I do get tired of the simmering anti-semitism here, however, which is why I made the jab.

What's your definition of anti-semitism and I'd appreciate it if you'd cite a specific post by anyone here as evidence of "simmering anti-semitism." Is any criticism of zionists, jews, or Israel anti-semitism in your mind? Well, guess what? I'm tired of the label and the accusation that we're anti-semites on this forum because we allow open and free discussion of THE topic.

christine  posted on  2006-04-06   11:59:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: christine (#6)

Is any criticism of zionists, jews, or Israel anti-semitism in your mind?

I don't know what a "Zionist" is. Criticizing Isreal, e.g. government policy, is fine with me. But criticizing "Jews" - that is a race. Saying that something "is the fault of the Jews" is like saying something is the fault of "the blacks" or "whitey" and is explicitly racist. Not only is the argument unsophisticated, but it is symptomatic of the kind of collectivist thinking that leads to concentration camps, unless it's something that you can demonstrate is inseparable from people with Jewish ancestry. (Which will be difficult.) I have seen many threads here which tempted me to post "It's the Joooooos" but I have resisted till now. I'll post a few of them and ping you.

Incidentally, when you capitalize "the" in the statement "I'm tired of the label and the accusation that we're anti-semites on this forum because we allow open and free discussion of THE topic" it conveys the impression that of all the problems in the world, THE problem is Jooooos, and we can only solve it if we can discuss it. Is that really what you intend to convey, or am I hopefully misunderstanding you?

I happen to think that socialism and radical Islam, both of which are ideologies independent of one's ancestry, are far greater threats to the country and the world, and I can debate why I think these things, based on history and where such ideologies might lead. But if someone is Jewish, you can't debate anything - his parents are Jews, therefore, he's a Jew, and therefore - what? He's the main problem? Please.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-07   8:35:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: freeedom, Phaedrus (#8)

So basically if you owned this forum, you'd censor the posts of those you deem are racist or anti-semite or posts that, in your opinion, are not the truth (whatever that means, it seems to me that is nebulous and in many situations based on one's personal beliefs, perceptions, and experiences. I offer religion and the bible as an example). That being said, our purpose here is the provision of a venue in which the posting and sharing of information and opinions in an attempt to learn what is true is encouraged.

Based on your comments, I'm left to conclude that neither one of you believe in free speech. With free speech comes the good, the bad, and the ugly. If you don't like what an individual writes, you have one of three options, debate him/her on it, ignore it, or leave the forum if you're uncomfortable with our policy of non- censorship. I hope you'll choose one of the first two.

christine  posted on  2006-04-07   11:27:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: christine, freeedom, Phaedrus (#15)

So basically if you owned this forum, you'd censor the posts of those you deem are racist or anti-semite or posts that, in your opinion, are not the truth

The irony here is that doing this promotes the very paranoia that is trying to be averted, just as Zundel's prosecution is promoting. People see that and the cite it as evidence of control by jewish or zionist interests albeit indirect.

Seeing Zundel get prosecuted makes me personally sympathize with those crying foul against the Jews. Zundel committed no crime worthy of a single minute behind bars.

I don't like such paranoia and the best way to dispel it is to permit candid discussion.

Neil McIver  posted on  2006-04-07   14:06:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Neil McIver, Christine (#37)

I don't like such paranoia and the best way to dispel it is to permit candid discussion.

This is pretty weak, Neil. I presume you would not permit someone advocating the killing of blacks, or Jews, or whomever, on this forum were it your decision (or Christine's, for that matter). So you DO have lines that are not to be crossed. We're talking about the best place to draw the line, which is always somewhat subjective. And someone has to do it. They will not necessarily be popular but they can be respected. Is this forum about popularity or something more worthy?

Phaedrus  posted on  2006-04-07   14:20:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 41.

#49. To: Phaedrus (#41)

I presume you would not permit someone advocating the killing of blacks, or Jews, or whomever, on this forum were it your decision (or Christine's, for that matter).

Correct, of course.

So you DO have lines that are not to be crossed. We're talking about the best place to draw the line, which is always somewhat subjective. And someone has to do it. They will not necessarily be popular but they can be respected. Is this forum about popularity or something more worthy?

What constitutes "more worthy" is subjective. To me, quashing reports on Zundel's prosecution would be bad, as would his case that the number of Jews (and others) killed in Auzwich (sp?) is/must have been far less than the 4.2 million accepted for the first 40 years after WWII. Along with that, discussion about the powers that are behind his prosecution must be permitted, and that would target the jewish lobby. But I also agree with and have echoed Starwind's point that blaming alleged plagerism on one person who happened to be jewish on a jewish conspiracy is unwarranted.

I guess I'm just saying that overreaction by jews/jewish interests, which does and is happening (ref: Zundel), helps to promote the very so-called anti-semitism that jews claim is victimizing them. And as I said, seeing what's happening to Zundel, for me, lends credence to those who claim there is a pro-jewish conspiracy.

In fact, I'm not sure how anyone could disagree that Zundel's prosecution makes jews look bad.

Neil McIver  posted on  2006-04-07 15:08:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Phaedrus, christine, Neil McIver, ALL (#41)

This is pretty weak, Neil. I presume you would not permit someone advocating the killing of blacks, or Jews, or whomever, on this forum were it your decision (or Christine's, for that matter). So you DO have lines that are not to be crossed. We're talking about the best place to draw the line, which is always somewhat subjective. And someone has to do it. They will not necessarily be popular but they can be respected. Is this forum about popularity or something more worthy?

FIRST an FYI ..

Christine and *I* are the forum owners of 4 ..NEIL is our paid webmaster and what he has said is his opinion.. that I suppose had to be stated YET again..

AND I as one of the forum owners, *I* DO NOT appreciate YOU making it sound as if discussion and/or criticism can be equated to as YOU put it "advocating the killing of blacks, or Jew, or whomever".. SO who draws the lines here on matters for discussion? YOU? This is and will remain a free speech forum .. topics of discussion will not be censored.. other than advocating violence in some form.. or other things that are illegal. That's it in a nutshell..plain and simple END of that discussion.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-04-07 15:21:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 41.

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