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Title: Albert Einstein A Plagiarist?
Source:
The Guardian - UK 8-29-03
URL Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,3928978-103681,00.html
Published: Apr 5, 2006
Author: By Rory Carroll in Rome
Post Date: 2006-04-06 00:05:11 by Horse
Keywords: None
Views: 587
Comments: 122
Einstein's E=mc2 'was Italian's idea'
Rory Carroll in RomeThursday November 11, 1999
GuardianThe mathematical equation that ushered in the atomic age was discovered by an unknown Italian dilettante two years before Albert Einstein used it in developing the theory of relativity, it was claimed yesterday.
Olinto De Pretto, an industrialist from Vicenza, published the equation E=mc2 in a scientific magazine, Atte, in 1903, said Umberto Bartocci, a mathematical historian.
Einstein allegedly used De Pretto's insight in a major paper published in 1905, but De Pretto was never acclaimed, said Professor Bartocci of the University of Perugia.
De Pretto had stumbled on the equation, but not the theory of relativity, while speculating about ether in the life of the universe, said Prof Bartocci. It was republished in 1904 by Veneto's Royal Science Institute, but the equation's significance was not understood.
A Swiss Italian named Michele Besso alerted Einstein to the research and in 1905 Einstein published his own work, said Prof Bartocci. It took years for his breakthrough to be grasped. When the penny finally dropped, De Pretto's contribution was overlooked while Einstein went on to become the century's most famous scientist. De Pretto died in 1921.
"De Pretto did not discover relativity but there is no doubt that he was the first to use the equation. That is hugely significant. I also believe, though it's impossible to prove, that Einstein used De Pretto's research," said Prof Bartocci, who has written a book on the subject.
Einstein's theory held that time and motion are relative to the observer if the speed of light is constant and if all natural laws are the same. A footnote established the equivalence of mass and energy, according to which the energy (E) of a quantity of matter (m) is equal to the product of the mass and the square of the velocity of light (c). Now known as: E=mc2 .
The influence of work by other physicists on Einstein's theory is also controversial. A German, David Hilbert, is thought by some to have been decisive.
Edmund Robertson, professor of mathematics at St Andrew's University, said: "An awful lot of mathematics was done by people who have never been credited - Arabs in the middle ages, for example. Einstein may have got the idea from someone else, but ideas come from all sorts of places.
"De Pretto deserves credit if his contribution can be proven. Even so, it should not detract from Einstein."
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#57. To: freeedom (#45)
It is true that when people unite economically, they become more powerful than the sum of their parts. It is thereby possible for a minority of people to obtain disproportionate control over a majority that doesn't simalarly unite. This is why the USA, having just 5% of the world's population, became a dominent world power, and why the European union came about, to unite the various independent countries into an economic force greater than the sum of it's parts. So unfortunately, if this principle is applied to a special segment of people based on religion, skin color, hair color, whatever, then I do believe it's possible for that group to, on average, rise in social status above, on average, those not in the group. Does that mean that people have no inherent right to give preferential economic treatment to whomever they will? Well, first tell me if it's alright for a white store owner to refuse to sell stuff to blacks. There are good arguments to answer yes and no. With increased economic power comes increased social power. For purposes of this discussion that's unfortunate, as it does lay a *theoretical* groundwork for supporting a so-called "jew conspiracy" of media control. Again, this is IF jews have a preferential economic system in place that aids jews above and beyond that of non-jews, which beyond the interest charging practices, I do not know/believe to exist. Again, I'll emphasize this is *theoretical* on my part only. I'm not citing evidence, only theory, and this theory can just as easily apply to tall skinny people taking advantage of people who are not both tall and skinny. Not at all. Please don't make me barf.
I've made this point many times. There are about a billion muslims in the world. If all of them, or even a substantial minority, took the kill the infidels literally, then we would not be at nearly the relative state of peace we are in today. It would be far, far worse, even considering Iraq and the presence of Israel.
Certainly it's hard for people to think in a disinterested way about the Apple of God's Eye.
I agree, after all nothing has come down from the Mount recently, but all things considered - it's dead on :)
The Delphi method has traditionally been a technique aimed at building an agreement, or consensus about an opinion or view, without necessarily having people meet face to face, such as through surveys, questionnaires, emails etc. This technique, if used effectively, can be highly efficient and generate new knowledge. To build consensus, the Delphi method often uses the Hegelian dialectic process of thesis (establishing an opinion or view), antithesis (conflicting opinion or view) and finally synthesis (a new agreement or consensus), with synthesis becoming the new thesis. All participants in the process shall then either change their views to align with the new thesis, or support the new thesis, to establish a new common view. The goal is a continual evolution towards 'oneness of mind', or consensus on the opinion or view. The person co-ordinating the Delphi method can be known as a facilitator, and facilitates the responses of their panel of experts, who are selected for a reason, usually that they hold knowledge on an opinion or view. The facilitator sends out questionnaires, surveys etc. and if the panel of experts accept, they follow instructions and present their views. Responses are collected and analysed, then common and conflicting viewpoints are identified. If consensus is not reached, the process continues through thesis and antithesis, to gradually work towards synthesis, and building consensus.
I said no such thing and YOU need to read my post more carefully.
whatever.
WTC bombing - 9-11 - assassination of Israeli atheletes - hotel bombings in Bali and Africa - Embassy bombings in Africa - Cole bombing in Yemen - Bombing of marine barracks - London subway and bus bombings - Madrid train bombings - Richard Reid, attempted shoe bombing of a passenger jet liner - Phillipines bombings - West Berlin nightclub bombing - attempted attack on major Saudi oil facility - attempted missile shootdown of Israeli jetliner in Africa - successful shootdown of TWA 800 (covered up) - attempted bombing of Sky Needle in seattle - Suicide bombings in cafes, bookstores, and other places in Isreal, Afghanistan, and Iraq, some targeting children - Murder of Buddists in Tibet, other places - beheading of non-combatants in Iraq, Afghanistan, and their broadcast on TV - US embassy taken hostage in Iran - Beslan school massacre - Dubrovka theater siege in Moscow - Riots in France and Australia - Rapes in Australia and Scandanavia - DC snipers - Sgt. Hasan Akbar's grenade attack on fellow US soldiers - attempted truck bombing of a hotel where journalists were staying - successful bombing of a wedding in Jordan, at a hotel where Westerners were thought to be staying - murder of Theo Van Gogh - riots over cartoons throughout the world ... Relative state of peace, indeed!
As I said, we would not be in the relative state of peace we have today. What we'd have would make the list you gave look like certified olympic events.
Does it matter? Look to fake name and the plagiarism of Martin Luther King - he got a national holiday and the attention of another Manchurian Patsy, for all the trouble he caused. Who cares anything about Uncle Al? Bush plagiarizes Hitler; who says a word? Does it matter?
With Americans conducting War Crime invasions and occupations - threatening more; where is this "...relative state of peace we are in today?" Did I miss something?
Late to the thread - but that is certainly correct. Satan is having a ball with the whack-jobs that are ruling this world.
Hilbert's work was stolen by Einstein as well. And if you do some more checking, I think you will find it was Hilbert who had the connections to the Italia, De Pretto. The time frame fits with the 1905 date I've seen previously. Just some old information which pops into my head. ;0) Einstein was indeed a plagiarist, and also an unabashed Zionist. This in itself is damning from my point of view. One needs to see the devious and evil agenda of the Zionists to see just what is driving the insanity of the world today. And the money power is controlled by the Zionists and their shills, and has been for many centuries. The fact that Zionism has its roots in Marxism and the Talmud and other sects of reform Judaism is of great significance. Look up Lubavitchers on the web to see one of the kookier bunch of Jews floating around out there.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! Sen. Barry Goldwater
Ok, so I've browsed the full paper. I would not characterize the paper as anti-semitic in any sense, nor do I think dissecting 'accusations of anti-semitism' as a political ploy necessarily makes one anti-semitic either. But nor would I characterize the paper as entirely balanced and truthful. It contains a fair degree of spin, and it largely ignores Israel has a legitimate ancient history and prior possession of its homeland; that the Balfour Declaration originally intended to turn over the British mandate of Palestine (won from the Turks in WWI), but was subsequently partitioned into "Palestine" west of the Jordan and the "Transjordan" (given to Arabs and Palestinians exclusively); and that the area west of the Jordan was further whittled down such that by the time the "zionists" moved in (1948), the Gaza strip and West Bank were not included. The paper argues that new, better research shows the Zionists were more at fault for whatever befell them than was heretofore acknowledged. I don't know how true the new research is, but I'm not impressed with it's one-sided presentation. The authors hypocritically ignore that the world seems to expect Israel to negotiate with a terrorist like Arafat (Munich? Entebbe? Achille Lauro?) who wouldn't be tolerated as dog-catcher anywhere else. To ignore the political repurcussions of forcing Israel to negotiate with such regardless of any legitimacy the underlying Palestinans may have, is assinine to put it charitably. But that is what the world expected of Israel, wasn't it. To the Palestinan's detriment, as if the world cared, but again hypocritically expecting Israel to pretend the world cared about the Palestinians. But that doesn't make it anti-semitic, IMO. Further, while the paper does footnote its claims with its sources (which I greatly appreciate), I disagree with some of the conclusions or motivation inferred. While Israel does have an effective lobby, that doesn't change the nature of the problems fomented by Soviets, Chinese, Europeans, Arabs, and the US. All have had a hand in manipulating events to the breaking point. Not one country or world body can claim innocence, nor the Israelis. They have been heavy-handed needlessly at times. Lastly, I think attributing the commonly stated motivations to the various actors is naive in the extreme. Ralph Reed for example doesn't care one wit about genuine biblical prophecy just as Abe Foxman doesn't care one wit about who is really defaming Jews. The neocon's couldn't care less if Israel is safer if they can actually subvert the middleeast governments before China and Russia do. It's about energy costs and the US Dollar, not protecting Israel from Saddam Hussein. They're all protecting their respective political power bases, truth be damned. But just because they're all grinding their own axes, doesn't mean they are rational or smart about it. Making mistakes or being heavyhanded doesn't mean the problems are simple or all of ones own making. I personally have no problem with exposing the influence of lobbies, AIPAC or other. I'd like to see them all exposed, all cards on the table. If anyone can make a case for Federal largesse on the merits, let's see it. Our elected officials can no longer be trusted to exercise judgement without our scrutiny, sadly. Yes, the charge of anti-semite is easy to raise and IMO, the ADL, AIPAC, etc have "cried wolf" way too often. The proof is in the preemptive innoculation by warning in advance of charges of "anti-semitism" for anything these days. But that doesn't mean that hatred of Jews for being Jews doesn't exist, and conspiracy theories blaming Jews for being complicit in something (based on the "proof" that they're Jews) abound. I'm frankly quite alarmed at the German prosecution of "holocaust deniers" because they choose to argue material evidence and wish to explore the facts and conduct research. If they're falsifying facts then scientific, forensic, or historic peer review is the appropriate venue to deal with that - not legal prosecution. That said, it also seems evident to me that some of the "revisionists" do in fact seem to have a hatred of, and obsession with, most things Jewish and seem to expect Jews as a race to permit their own extinction, and that is incredibly naive, and further exacerbates the hatred and fear all around. Extremist claims, whether Abe Foxman's fears of Christians savaging Jews after watching Mel Gibson's "Passion of The Christ" or accusations that Einstein was a plagerist, etc, all belong in the round file. There are extremeists on all sides. We ought not let them whipsaw us off-center.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
I ONCE HAD A MULIE COW, MULIE WHEN SHE'S BORN Thanks for Prohibition and the war against drugs. Thanks for a country where nobody's allowed to mind their own business. Thanks for a nation of finks. Yes, thanks for all the memories-- all right let's see your arms!- William S Burroughs
So much here Starwind, where to begin? Lets go point by point. You state that “Israel has a legitimate ancient history and prior possession of its homeland.” It is my understanding that the state of Israel was created by the United Nations in the late 1940s. Prior to its creation, it was a Palestinian homeland. Are you using Bible scripture to put forward the idea of “prior possession?”
Yes, using land ceded by the British, won from the Ottoman Turks in WWI Not entirely, no. The Ottoman Turks were occupiers. They lost in WWI. The British became the new "occupiers". The British, the "zionists", the Arabs, and ultimately he UN agreed a much smaller portion (west of the Jordan) would be "Israel" and Transjordan would be for the Arabs and "palestinians". The palestinians didn't want to leave. So they didn't. Israel squeezed in except for the Gaza and West Bank. Egypt and Syria escalated conflict leading upto the 1967 war, Israel preempted, won the war and kept Gaza and the West Bank. At which point they were occupying roughly the land they had prior to the succesive conquests of Babylonians, Alexander, Seleucids, Ptolemys, and then the Romans followed by the Arabs (around 700 AD).
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
One thing about this so-called European guilt. This is the end result of the brainwashing instigated by the Marxist Jews after the war with the full consent of the Allies and the collaboration of the Soviets. If you have a problem with this, you need to study the period of history directly after the end of the war from a diferent perspective than what you seem to be coming from. I say this with full knowledge of the truth of the matter. The Court historians have written the victor's version of history, but it is rife with lies and deceit. “We are all ensnared by the tentacles of a system of social control, operating at all levels of society, which demands the blood sacrifice of millions of the cream of our youth every generation in bloody aggression to maintain prosperity. The primary intellectual and spiritual fundaments of this system spring from what passes for history, and are percolated down to the lowest member of society via a well-coordinated machine which leaves nothing unsullied by its poisonous output.” Willis A. Carto, 1983
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! Sen. Barry Goldwater
So the Israelis squeezed in under the flag & authority of the UN? I can understand why the Palestinians didn't want to leave; this was their home prior to the first official action of the new global entity. This, to me, seems a simple case of land theft.
Nor more theft than what Jews suffered previously in 20th Century Europe or under the various occupations of the Babylonians, Alexander, Seleucids, Ptolemys, and then the Romans followed by the Arabs. Agreed. I can empathize with the plight of the "little guy". But the Arab leader King Faisal negotiated, essentially, the entire Transjordan for those "palestinians", so there was an effort to compensate them and provide a homeland for them as well. Now it can be argued that perhaps Faisal did not have their 'proxy' as it were to negotiate on their behalf. However true that may be, Faisal was the Arab King at the time and the Zionists can't very well be blamed for believing him. At the time, Palestine was no prize, it had been stripped of many of its resources, water was scarce. The Transjordan was supposedly richer but I can understand people not wanting to be uprooted. People were trying to fair. It was not a simple situation.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
But the Arab leader King Faisal negotiated, essentially, the entire Transjordan for those "palestinians", And who appointed Faisal to such a position? Wasn't he a creation of the British empire?
But by this standard shouldn't you be the first person tossed out on their ear? Is this what you want?
You just don't understand narrow minded obsessed nuts. There are actually two standards. One for himself and one for everyone else on the planet. He's stating the second standard in his post. It doesn't apply to him. It only applies to everyone else. So there. KOOK! ROTFLOL!
Faisal was at various times King of Syria and Iraq, as well as the leader of Hashemite tribes in the Mid East (I'm not entirely sure about "boundaries"). Also, if you recall the movie "Lawrence of Arabia", Faisal was the King played by Anthony Quinn. What was mostly true was how Faisal drew together the various disparate tribes into a cooperation with the British (under "Lawrence"'s guidance) to defeat the Turks and capture Damascus. For this cooperation Faisal and the Arabs would have a united kingdom from Iraq to Morocco. So in the sense the British "united" the arabs under Faisal against a common enemy (the Turks) yes they created him. But Faisal did have his Hashemite pedigree behorehand as well as king of Syria and Iraq at one time. Given that "Palestine" was previously under the control of the Turks, one can not expect a formal designation of a ruler or (spokesperson) other than a Turk until the Turks were defeated. It would seem Faisal by racial similarity to the Palestinians and by being the nearest legitimate king-like figure, in some sense stepped into a vacuum.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
OK. When you put it that way there does seem to be a weird kind of logic to it. I'm glad you are here. I don't think I could get into phaedrus' head like you can. Someday you'll have to explain byeltsin to us.
SO Faisal was the King played by Anthony Quinn in Lawrence of Arabia ??? You're a walking history lesson, Starwind :)
Don't let the kooks push you around. We have many advantages over normal people. Our definition of "truth" can mean many different things at once. We are unconstrained! I have heard that many normal people don't even have voices in their heads to guide them. They are pushovers! Also, there are many more nuts than normal people! Remember that! ROTFLOL!
The British and French Mandates were a product of the Versailles Treaty and this was a late form of colonialism. The Zionist Jews were attempting to gain control of the Holy Land as per the promises made to them by the British in the Balfour Declaration. When the British split Palestine off from the rest of Transjordan, Chaim Weizmann was heard to complain, "Already you are making it smaller." A simple situation it was not, and the conniving Jews made the situation that much worse.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! Sen. Barry Goldwater
And the British split off a portion of eastern Transjordan and gave it to Iraq. This is the current boundary line. Jordan, also known as southern Syria, was created to stop Syrian access to the Persian Gulf by way of the rivers in Iraq. This tactic was part and parcel of the British attempts to keep Arab nationalism under wraps, a policy picked up later by the U.S., which we see in the form of the CIA-sponsored coups d'etat which overthrew lawfully elected governments in both Iraq and Iran.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! Sen. Barry Goldwater
I have heard that many normal people don't even have voices in their heads to guide them. They are pushovers! Also, there are many more nuts than normal people! Remember that Hey BAC, would you be able to give us a proper definition of "normal?" Watch you step on this one. Or should I say, "Get way out on that limb so I can saw it off behind you." ;0)
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! Sen. Barry Goldwater
Feel free to drop that little tid bit at your next soire'. Yeah, the chics really go for the history/movie buffs :-/
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
And our meddling continues to this day. Bush, and his
cabal won't be satisfied with anything less than a Middle East of, by and for
Mother Israel. But what I find really weird is the strange brew of religion
and politics that they’re introducing to the populice. It’s evil to its core.
Isn’t it amazing that the most secular of all institutions, the UN, created
what some consider the most hollowed of all lands. The entire mess is a
cluster f**k.
I will. I love that movie. I'm due for my yearly viewing soon.
One thing about this so-called European guilt. This is the end result of the brainwashing instigated by the Marxist Jews after the war with the full consent of the Allies and the collaboration of the Soviets. That might be so. The reason I said it is because I got to know several Europeans in grad school, and all of them mentioned something like this. I did talk politics with them. If you have a problem with this, you need to study the period of history directly after the end of the war from a diferent perspective than what you seem to be coming from. First, why should I do anything at all about it? It's coming from them, not from me, I'm just the messenger. If anyone needs to study anything, it's the Europeans who told me about it, and not me. Second, you are awfully quick to tell me about what you think are the limitations of my knowledge, based on your own assumptions about me. I submit you don't know as much about me as you think. In all likelihood, you don't know as much about world history as you think either. Third, I have a problem with Marxists whether they are Jewish or not - in much the same way that I have a problem with plagiarists, whether they are Jewish or not (to attempt to bring the thread back on topic). I say this with full knowledge of the truth of the matter. Yes, you are the indisputible world expert on this matter, and many others no doubt. In your own mind, at least. Everyone who disagrees with you is simply ignorant - according to you. No other explanation for disagreement fits into your worldview. "Full knowledge" indeed!
Still anxiously awaiting enlightenment about the meaning intended to be conveyed by: "Jews being THE issue," and about what particular interpretation of "Jew" makes the statement: "The Jews control the press" a reasonable position to take in a debate. Points you inexplicably neglected to make in your follow-up posts to me. I await your wisdom.
I was going to include a response about that but thought it a bit petty so I deleted it. The first reference to "THE" in all caps was #6 by christine: Not "THE jews" or "THE issue" but "THE topic". If you want to know more detail about what christine meant by this reference, I'll have to refer you. If you're instead referring to my statement about what the intended meaning of "jew" is since it seems to mean different things to different people, then you infer some negative connotation that simply isn't there. I'm not defending or attacking anyone on either side of THE topic. I'm just trying to communicate.
Not true but I'd be pleased to have you cite any post where you think I've indulged in any of these bad habits. Bear in mind that if someone has been called a liar and has in fact lied, that is acceptable. Truth is an adequate defense against a charge of slander.
lol ... not bloody likely.
Regarding Palestine, have a listen to Ben Freedman back in '61 who had first hand experience how things are shaped and conveniently omitted from our history books. Expect a 'reality shift' if you haven't heard this before. http://iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Freedman.html (Check the 40 minute excerpt first)
Thanks for the link, Rainingfish. I've enjoyed this thread.
Likewise JT and most welcome, pass it on. ; )
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest For the sake of argument: Jews don't charge each other interest. So what? Family members sometimes don't charge each other interest either, maybe that means Jews just think of each other as family members. Does this somehow justify the discrimination and persecution that has resulted?
Would this fact have any bearing on whether "the Jews control the press" or whatnot? No and no.
Careful there!! You're one millimeter away from justifying the invasion of Iraq, and the ongoing War On Terror.
#58. To: Diana (#46)
The majority of muslims just want to live their lives and live right, and yes, peacefully. There are indeed the fanatics who want to kill infidels, but those types are found in all major religions.
#59. To: Diana (#55)
Comparing people with apples is like comparing oranges with apples (something like that).
I use antlers in all of my decorating.
#60. To: Tauzero (#56)
There are some bits that are questionable
#61. To: Jethro Tull, ALL (#60)
The Delphi method and consensus building
Role of the facilitator
#62. To: Zipporah (#52)
... *I* DO NOT appreciate YOU making it sound as if discussion and/or criticism can be equated to as YOU put it "advocating the killing of blacks, or Jew, or whomever ...
#63. To: Phaedrus (#62)
#64. To: Neil McIver (#58)
then we would not be at nearly the relative state of peace we are in today
#65. To: freeedom (#64)
Relative state of peace, indeed!
#66. To: Horse, All (#0)
Albert Einstein A Plagiarist?
#67. To: Neil McIver, Christine, Diana, Zipporah, robin, Zoroaster, BTP Holdings, Arator, Brian S, A K A Stone, Steppenwolf, Bub, mugwort, bluegrass, Bill D Berger, FormerLurker, Uncle Bill, Dakmar, Flintlock, Neil McIver, tom007, aristeides, Burkeman1, Diana, (#58)
then we would not be at nearly the relative state of peace we are in today
#68. To: freeedom (#35)
One thing I'll stand by: there are a lot of foolish, dangerous, or outright insane people in positions of political power everywhere across the globe, and one shouldn't look to the duly enacted laws of any country as paragons of reason, rationality, beneficence, or virtue.
#69. To: Horse, freedom (#0)
The influence of work by other physicists on Einstein's theory is also controversial. A German, David Hilbert, is thought by some to have been decisive.
#70. To: Jethro Tull (#54)
#71. To: Starwind (#70)
TOOK A JAY BIRD FORTY YEARS TO FLY FROM HORN TO HORN
#72. To: Starwind (#70)
#73. To: Jethro Tull (#72)
It is my understanding that the state of Israel was created by the United Nations in the late 1940s.
Prior to its creation, it was a Palestinian homeland. Are you using Bible scripture to put forward the idea of "prior possession?"
#74. To: freeedom (#35)
It probably has to do with European guilt over allowing the Holocaust to happen, but it could be something else. (It could also be because The Jooooos control everything, but I reject that argument.)
#75. To: Starwind (#73)
Israel squeezed in except for the Gaza and West Bank
#76. To: Jethro Tull (#75)
This, to me, seems a simple case of land theft.
I can understand why the Palestinians didn't want to leave; this was their home prior to the first official action of the new global entity.
#77. To: Starwind (#76)
#78. To: Phaedrus (#18)
Anyone shown, repeat shown, to post lies, innuendo, character assassination etc. on more than one, repeat one, occasion would be thrown out.
#79. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#78)
But by this standard shouldn't you be the first person tossed out on their ear? Is this what you want?
#80. To: Jethro Tull (#77)
And who appointed Faisal to such a position? Wasn't he a creation of the British empire?
#81. To: BAC (#79)
There are actually two standards. One for himself and one for everyone else on the planet. He's stating the second standard in his post. It doesn't apply to him. It only applies to everyone else.
#82. To: Starwind (#80)
#83. To: Phaedrus (#18)
#84. To: Starwind, Jethro Tull (#76)
People were trying to fair. It was not a simple situation.
#85. To: Starwind, Jethro Tull (#80)
But Faisal did have his Hashemite pedigree behorehand as well as king of Syria and Iraq at one time.
#86. To: BAC (#83)
We have many advantages over normal people. Our definition of "truth" can mean many different things at once. We are unconstrained!
#87. To: Jethro Tull (#82)
SO Faisal was the King played by Anthony Quinn in Lawrence of Arabia
#88. To: BTP Holdings (#85)
which we see in the form of the CIA-sponsored coups d'etat
which overthrew lawfully elected governments in both Iraq and Iran
#89. To: Starwind (#87)
#90. To: BTP Holdings (#74)
#91. To: Neil McIver (#42)
#92. To: freeedom, christine (#91)
Still anxiously awaiting enlightenment about the meaning intended to be conveyed by: "Jews being THE issue," and about what particular interpretation of "Jew" makes the statement: "The Jews control the press" a reasonable position to take in a debate. Points you inexplicably neglected to make in your follow-up posts to me.
because we allow open and free discussion of THE topic.
#93. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#78)
But by this standard shouldn't you be the first person tossed out on their ear?
#94. To: BAC (#83)
Don't let the kooks push you around.
#95. To: All (#94)
#96. To: Rainingfish (#95)
#97. To: Jethro Tull (#96)
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